My Debate Presuppositions

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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And I guess that's a good place to start. I would start with these words of the

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Apostle Paul to Timothy from 2 Timothy chapter 3. You however continue the things you have learned to become convinced of knowing from whom you have learned them.

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And that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

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All scripture is theanoustos, it is God breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness.

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The man of God may be adequate, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

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This is the beginning presupposition of any debate that I would do and that is that God has spoken and he has spoken in a way that we can understand.

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He has spoken in a way that demonstrates that he wants to communicate with his people.

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Here in Paul's words we have a summary of what Christians have always believed and certainly what the

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Apostles believed about God having spoken. And this is the very thing that is not believed by the vast majority of our society today.

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We live in a society, a postmodern society that is looking for reasons not to believe.

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And the idea that God has spoken, the idea that God has revealed truth so that this is true and this is untrue is now a heresy in our culture.

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There are many, many people in our culture that do not want us to even have the freedom to believe in that way any longer.

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We see this happening in Europe, we see this push for this utter inclusivism which fundamentally tells the believer, stop believing that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life.

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It is in essence an anti -Christian attitude, it is an anti -Godly attitude and postmodernism as a whole is an anti -Christian, anti -God attitude as well because it denies the existence of truth yet the

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Apostle tells Timothy in the last letter that he writes to him, when you know you are going to be going soon, the things you say in those last times you have the people you love are the most important things that you want to say to them.

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And so what does he say to Timothy as he is going to be, he has warned Timothy, there are dark times coming, there are difficult times coming, there are going to be deceivers in the church.

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What does he direct Timothy to? Does he direct him to the Bishop of Rome? No, there was no Bishop of Rome until around 140

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A .D. Even the church of Rome didn't think they needed to have a Bishop of Rome, a single Bishop of Rome until about 140

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A .D. Instead, just as he had with the Ephesian elders in Acts chapter 20,

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I don't have time to go through these, I am going to have to move through this pretty quickly, but just as he did with the Ephesian elders in Acts chapter 20, he directed them to the word of God.

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Here Timothy he says, look to the scriptures, look to the sacred writings which have a certain ability.

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Notice verse 15, they have a capacity, they have ability which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

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They have a capacity to accomplish something. They are not dependent upon some later councils to come along and interpret them.

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They have this ability in and of themselves. At this point in time, this would be primarily the

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Old Testament scriptures, the New Testament is still being written. It's a sad commentary on the modern

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Christian church today that so few of us know almost anything about the Old Testament scripture. When we look at the early

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Christians, they can prove from the Tanakh, the Torah, the Nebuchadnezzar and the Ketubim, the law, the prophets and the writings.

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They can prove from those scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah, the Christ. How many of us can even go to very many messianic prophecies in the

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Old Testament today? They knew those scriptures, those sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom at least to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

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And Paul here gives us this summary statement, all scripture is theanoustos. It is

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God breathed. It is like when you hold your hand in front of your mouth as you're speaking, you inevitably feel that breath coming forth from your mouth.

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That is the very speaking of God. It is intimately his personal self -revelation.

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The book was written a long time ago but I would highly recommend it to your reading. A book by Benjamin Breckenridge Warfield, B .B.

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Warfield, the great Princeton scholar. The authority and inspiration of the Bible, still available, might even be available electronically for free on Google, I don't know.

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But I highly recommend it to you. He goes through in depth, and we have the article actually on our website, the meaning of theanoustos at 2

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Timothy 3 .16. And you will discover that the vast majority of errors that are propounded within what is called

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Christianity today are propounded by people who simply don't believe what Paul said. And foundational to every debate that I do, whether it was the debate last evening, whether it is the debates that I will be doing early next year, for example, in London with an

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Islamic apologist, all of these debates go back to my firm conviction that God has spoken in scripture.

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He didn't stutter. He has made us capable of understanding what he himself said.

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God has spoken, all scripture is theanoustos, and therefore, it is profitable for everything the man of God needs to be doing in the church of God.

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Notice the things. For teaching. If you want to teach something and say this is true, you can go to the word of God.

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For reproof. We're all sinners, and at times we have to reprove the behavior of others, even within the congregation.

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Where do you go to do that? To some psychologist someplace? No, you go to the word of God.

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For correction. Same concept. Where could you go, Timothy? Even though I, Paul, am leaving, even though the apostles are dying off,

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Timothy, for correction of people in the church, which has to take place, there has to be discipline, you go to the word of God.

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For training in righteousness, you don't have to look anywhere other than that which is theanoustos. So the man of God may be what?

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Adequate for everything God has called him to do. We have men of God today running around looking to everything the world has to offer.

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To post -modernism and its inane, silly philosophies. When the man of God has one direction that he needs to go, and that is go to that which is

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God -breathed, the scriptures. And the man of God, when he does so, will be equipped for how many good works?

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Every good work. I remember asking Patrick Madrid, a

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Catholic apologist, a number of years ago when we were debating solo scriptura in San Diego, Mr. Madrid, how does the

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Bible equip you to teach the bodily assumption of Mary or papal infallibility? It doesn't.

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It can't. No one in the Bible had any concept of such things. So those things cannot be good works in the church, can they?

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Because the apostolic teaching is, the scripture equips the man of God for every good work.

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Now that means I have a very high view of scripture, and it's a very unusual view of scripture these days, I will have to admit. Sadly, in the vast majority of places that call themselves theological seminaries today, this would not be the view of scripture that is held.

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I recognize that. I understand that. And that explains a lot of what's going on in what's called evangelicalism or protestantism today.

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And I might just say, there is just as much liberalism within Roman Catholicism as there is within Protestantism.

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The idea that there is some monolith, some unity provided by rejecting solo scriptura in Roman Catholicism is one of the most absurd arguments that has ever been presented.

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And yet it is presented over and over and over again. So I start, and the first presupposition is that God has spoken, and he has spoken with clarity.

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The second presupposition, turn with me please to Ephesians chapter one, listen to the words of the

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Apostle Paul, the same Apostle Paul, blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before him.

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In love, he predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the kind intention of his will, to the praise and glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the beloved, in the beloved one, that's a singular term that's referring to Jesus.

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In him, we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished on us.

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In all wisdom and insight, he made known to us the mystery of his will, according to his kind intention, which he purposed in him, what they viewed to be an administration suitable of the fullness of the times.

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That is the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.

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In him also, we have obtained our inheritance, having been predestined according to purpose, to his purpose, who works all things after the counsel of his will, to the end of we who are the first to hope in Christ, to be to the praise of his glory in him.

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And you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, having also believed you were sealed in him with the

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Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, the praise of his glory.

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My second presupposition is God has a purpose in creation. God did not just decide, you know,

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I'm bored one day. God didn't say, you know, I'm lonely. I need some creatures. As this text says, from eternity past,

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God has had a purpose. He has had his will, the trying

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God, father, son and Holy Spirit in the eternal covenant of redemption and eternity past chose to create and to bring about the glorification of the

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Trinity in a particular fashion. And folks, the focus never, ever goes off of the

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God who is glorifying himself, it never comes off of him and onto his creatures.

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God is the central aspect of the story. It starts in Genesis one, one in the beginning,

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God, and in Revelation chapter 22, everyone is worshiping God and nothing changed in between as to what the focus really is.

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God has a purpose and God is accomplishing his purpose. The scriptures are very, very clear.

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Even the pagan king Nebuchadnezzar, after his reason returned to him in Daniel chapter four, confessed that the true

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God of the heavens, whatever he does, no one can lift a hand to stop him.

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This is the God who says in Psalm 135, six, our God accomplishes all his purposes in the heavens and the earth and all the deeps.

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No one can stay his hand to understand the message of scripture is to understand that God is absolutely sovereign over all things.

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And we as creatures are not just read the 33rd Psalm sometime and see how the psalmist says men plan things, but God frustrates their plans.

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But God plans things and nobody frustrates his. And he's going back and forth demonstrating that God is the one is sovereign.

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Man is a creature. We are the clay in the hand of the potter. I know a lot of people don't like that, and man's religion fundamentally is based upon the idea that man is sovereign and God is the great butler in the sky who runs around responding to us.

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That is not the biblical message. And in verses five and six here in first Ephesians, chapter one, we have some of the big answers.

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Why has God done what he has done? Why me and not someone else? Well, you have these phrases according to the kind intention of his will to the praise of the glory of his grace.

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There is the big answers to the big questions. God has a kind intention, not an evil intention, a kind intention to his will, and he is accomplishing, as it says in verse 11, all things after that will that is his.

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And when you want to ask the big questions, there is the answer. It is his will and it will result in the praise of the glory of his grace.

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Everything is wrapped up in that. God is about glorifying himself. That's why he's not some big man, because a man who just wants to glorify himself, be a little bit odd.

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But God is the creator of all things, and he has created all things to his praise, honor and glory.

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And that's why Jesus then shows up so often here in Ephesians, chapter one.

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Do you notice how many times it said in him, in the beloved, in Christ? Ten times in 14 verses in him, there is exclusivity in Christianity to say that you should abandon the exclusive message of Christianity is to abandon

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Christianity itself. You can't do it. God has chosen to save in one way, and he didn't have to do that if he didn't want to.

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He has chosen to say in one way, in Christ and in Christ alone, and anyone who says that that's too narrow minded is an anti -Christian and anti -Christ.

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Mark them well, they're troublers of the body. And if you love the message of Christianity, you will not play footsie with those who will say

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Christ is not the only way of salvation. It is in him that God's grace has been shown.

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It is in him that God's mercy has been shown. And my friends, if you want to be saved from the wrath of God, the only place you can be to be saved in the wrath of God is in him, not standing next to him, not looking at him, not knowing something about him.

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But unless you are in him, the wrath of God will carry you away. And I say to you, if you're a member of a church, but Jesus Christ is not the sole ground of your entire life and existence.

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If you can go through your entire week and never even think about him until Sunday morning, are you in him or do you just know about him?

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There is no salvation here. There is salvation here in him, but in him alone, not in Mohammed, not in Buddha, not in Vishnu or Shiva, but in Jesus Christ and him alone.

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That's the gospel message. It will always be the gospel message, and anyone who denies that is not a Christian.

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Period. End of discussion. This is the biblical message. It is all in Jesus Christ, the creator of all things.

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For by him were all things made, whether in the heavens, the earth, visible or invisible, the principalities, powers, dominions or authorities, all things created by him and for him.

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He is before all things and him. All things soon as they can hold together, consist.

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That's your creator. I had the opportunity just recently to stand in London, only a few miles from where the seven seven bombings took place.

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Seven seven is England's hour. 9 11 and to debate a

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Muslim in front of a crowd of Muslims. There were women there in full hijab.

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All you can see with their eyes. And I knew that I would have an opportunity to maybe compromise under pressure there, but by God's grace, when the opportunity for the rebuttal period came and my opponent had attacked the lordship of Jesus Christ and the fact that he was the creator of all things, they were all sitting over on this side for some reason,

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I looked straight at those people and what I said to them was this, you have been told that Jesus is a mirror of a school, a mere prophet and apostle from a law, but the fact of the matter is 600 years before Muhammad came along, the new

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Testament had declared that he's the creator of all things. He's the king of kings. He's the Lord of Lords.

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He's the risen Lord. Every breath you take, every beat of your heart comes from his hand and you cannot be neutral about him.

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He's not a mere result unless you bow before him. You'll never have eternal life. God's spirit.

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It will never cease being the Christian message. There are people this day, my friends who are suffering in prisons and Islamic lands who know that if they were just to compromise that message, if they were just to, for a moment, say that's the

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Shahada, that's how you become a Muslim. You have to say it in Arabic. If they would, but say it, the prison doors would swing open and they would have access once again to their wives, their husbands, their children, their parents, their grandchildren, but they stay in those cells because by God's spirit, they remain faithful to the message that Jesus Christ is

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Lord. And by that very same spirit, no matter what persecution comes against the

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Christian church in this world, God's people remain faithful. Man. Now we may not have that kind of persecution yet here, but it may be coming.

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We haven't been the best stewards of the freedom that we have, and while we still have, we better remain bold in the proclamation of that gospel, but we know in our society it is not popular, but you see the presupposition that I brought to the bait last night was that that gospel is the only gospel that saves.

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There are not many gospels. There is one gospel and that truth of the gospel remains with God's people.

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Remember in Galatians chapter two, Paul talked about false brethren who had snuck in the fellowship.

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They're trying to spy out the freedom we have in Christ, but Paul said we did not put up with them for even an hour.

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Why? So the truth of the gospel would remain with you. Folks, let me tell you something.

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It is not popular to address the subject of Roman Catholicism. It is not politically correct to address

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Roman Catholicism. My ministry will always be tiny and small, massive, two employees, me and Rich Pierce, that's it, and we've been around for 26 years, and why do we remain small?

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We're reformed and we talk about Roman Catholicism, but now we're talking about Islam too. We don't want to be politically incorrect, but you see the attitude amongst evangelicals is, well, you know, my

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Aunt May is a good Catholic and I'm sure she's just going to be wonderful with Jesus and all the rest of this stuff.

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The fact of the matter is I look at the book of Galatians and my friends, I'm convinced of this. As long as the book of Galatians is in the canon of scripture, we must evangelize

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Roman Catholics here because the book of Galatians anathematizes false

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Gospels, and folks, the Judaizers in Galatia had never even begun to dream of the violations of the

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Gospel that Roman Catholicism has made a part of her dogma. We saw it last night.

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We heard about it last night. We heard about propitiatory masses and sacrifices. We didn't hear much about it, but you can go back.

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I've debated Roman Catholics over 40 times now. They had Mitchell, Paquin, Patrick Madrid, and Robertson, Jennison, Jerry Matitix, and Tim Staples, all these people.

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You can go back and listen to these things, but priests, sacramental priests, unknown to the

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New Testament, unknown to the early church, sacramental priests who hear confessions, masses, they're propitiatory, but you can go to them 10 ,000 times in your life and die impure, purgatory, indulgences, the

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Marian dogmas, praying to Mary to deliver you. All of this, unknown to any apostle of the

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Lord Jesus Christ, never a part of the Gospel, now added to it by the authority of the Roman Catholic Church.

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It's a false gospel, and it doesn't save, and that's why I do what I do, and that's why we continue to press forward to do what we do, because you have to be consistent.

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You can't just put up your hand and say, well, you know, that's really an unpopular thing over there. I just don't want to look at that. I don't want to talk about that.

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It's the 800 -pound gorilla in the room, proverbially speaking. We have to address what these things are saying.

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Let's look at some other texts. This is time, unfortunately, just as last night, well, actually, a couple of times last night dragged real slowly, but Hebrews chapter 7,

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I want to reiterate a couple of the points from last evening, but I want to expand them out. When I have the positive and the vague,

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I make sure you understand what my position is from the start. I define it clearly.

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Very often, however, when I'm in the negative debate, I have to define what the other side is supposed to be saying is actually the truth.

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I had to do that last night. Even when asking about indulgences, I'm the one who had to define what indulgences really were from the

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Roman Catholic perspective. And so I recognize there are people who are not former

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Catholics or even if they were former Catholics, I don't necessarily know what the Roman church teaches on certain things, but you need to understand a few things tomorrow, even this day, of course, but tomorrow, especially when mass is being set in churches all over this area, the historic

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Roman Catholic belief, and there are many, I realize there are many liberal Catholics in this area who don't really believe what

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Roman Catholic church actually teaches. It's tough to deal with those folks, but the historic teaching is this, that by the power of the priest,

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Jesus Christ is rendered present upon the altar, body, soul, blood, and divinity in the olden days.

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And the Latin phrase hook us. Corpus meum was pronounced. The bell would be wrong. The miracle of transubstantiation takes place and the elements are transformed into the body, soul, blood, and divinity of Jesus Christ so that a propitiatory sacrifice is being altered upon, is being offered upon the altar of the

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Roman Catholic church. However, no one is perfected by that sacrifice.

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No, the amount of, of assistance you receive is dependent upon the state and you're in when you come in, not just the state of grace, but, but your intentions as you come in, the perfection of your confession and so on and so forth.

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And so you can come into the sacrifice of Calvary because Rome says it's not a different sacrifice.

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It's not a re -sacrificing of Jesus. It is a re -presentation, not representation, same word, but re -presentation of the one sacrifice of Calvary.

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That's Rome's arguments. And yet you can come into that mass and you're not perfected by it.

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You can attend that mass every day of your life and not be perfected by it.

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You can die and have to go to purgatory and undergo status facio, having attended the cross 10 ,000, 15 ,000, 20 ,000 times in your life.

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In fact, you can go to the cross all those times, commit a mortal sin and die. And at least in old conservative

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Roman Catholic theology, go to hell. Having gone to the one sacrifice of Christ over and over and over again, it perfects no one.

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And the hour before this, you heard that repeated. If you're listening carefully, you had first John 2, 2 cited over and over and over again, as if reformed folks had never read that one before.

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By the way, that's not how Calvin responded. It takes time to actually read some reformed authors on that subject, and you will see how they respond to that.

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Specifically, first John 2, 2, he is the propitiation. Propitiation is the sacrifice that takes away the cause of God's wrath.

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It brings about forgiveness and propitiates the wrath itself. It's not an argument amongst

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Protestants as to how to translate it. The only Protestants to say it should be translated to expiation are uber liberals who don't like the idea of the wrath of God.

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Well, folks, the Bible sort of talks about the wrath of God. The point of first John 2, 2 is not that propitiation doesn't actually remove the wrath of God.

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Here's the point of first John 2, 2. There is always a tendency. Once we get settled in the

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Christian life, there is a tendency we get into our little enclaves to start thinking of ourselves as us versus them.

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And John's words simply mean this. We can go into all the world and proclaim that anyone who turns in faith and repentance to Jesus Christ will find him to be a perfect savior.

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I don't care where I go in this world. Next week, the week, well, week after next, sorry,

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November 1st, I'm going to be in Lima, Peru, teaching pastors about these things. I was in Sydney last year.

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I've been in Italy, in the UK, in Scotland, my home, my home, my homeland. I've had opportunity to go around the world and anywhere

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I go, anyone I meet, I can proclaim to them that Jesus Christ is a perfect savior to anyone who repents and believes in him.

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And notice what I'm not saying. I am not saying that Jesus Christ saves anyone but his people.

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What did the angel say to Mary? Why is he called Jesus? Because he will try to save his people from their sins with their cooperation.

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No, he will save his people from their sins. That's why he's called Yeshua, Yahweh saves.

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Remember these words, if you've not read them before, and sometimes people get a little bit, you know, because, you know, you go to book of Revelation, you're trying to figure out what

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Tim LaHaye is saying, something like that. You just sort of skip over the theology.

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Notice these words. There were people, there are creatures before the lamb.

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And they sing, before the throne, and they sing a new song, verse 9,

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Revelation chapter 5, verse 9. They sing to the lamb, worthy are you to take the book and break its seals.

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Why? For you were slain and purchased for God with your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

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They didn't sing, you purchased with your blood every man from every tribe and every tongue and every people and every nation.

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It doesn't say that. You purchased for God with your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

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That is why even Caiaphas, as high priest, prophesied in John chapter 11.

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Remember the story? After the raising of Lazarus. And John interpreted his words as prophecy, and he was prophesying about how

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God was going to gather into one all the children of God that were scattered abroad, every tribe, tongue, people, and nation.

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You see, the problem with the position that was presented to us before is that it decides to, well, on the basis of first John 2, 2, it says the whole world.

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I'm going to, I'm going to assume that means every single person. Think about that for just a moment. Think about that for just a moment.

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When the high priest in the old covenant offered the priest the sacrifice on Yom Kippur, on the day of atonement, literally it's

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Yom Kippur, the day of atonements. But when the high priest went into the holiest place on the day of atonement, was he offering that sacrifice of Babylonians, the

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Egyptians, the Amorites? No. Was he even offering it for all the

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Jewish people? No. That offering was specifically for those who drew near in worship.

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It had a specific audience. Jesus, the high priest in the new covenant, and when he enters into the presence of God, the father in heaven, what does he do there?

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He intercedes for us in our people, at our place. By the way, that's the term of substitution.

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Just as he gave himself for us, he intercedes for us. Now, when the high priest offered the sacrifice, he took the blood and he entered into the holy place with it, and he sprinkled it upon the place of atonement, the mercy seat.

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The people for whom the sacrifice was made are the same people for whom the intercession is made.

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The audience is identical. Let me ask you a simple question. For whom is

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Jesus interceding this very moment in the presence of the father?

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Is he interceding for the Amorites that we know about from the

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Pentateuch, that God didn't send them any prophets? He sent

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Israel into captivity in Egypt until their transgression was and then he sent

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Israel in and he wiped them out, man, woman, child, and the little pets.

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And we know why today. We know archaeologically what these people were doing.

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God took his hand of restraint off and the kind of degradation that these people experienced and put upon themselves,

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I can't even mention to you in mixed company. But let's just talk about child sacrifice for a moment as an example.

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Can you imagine taking the fruit of your own body and burning it to death while alive?

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God brought his punishment to bear. Are you going to tell me that Jesus is standing in the presence of the father pleading to save the

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Amorite high priest who's been dead for 2 ,000 years? How is that propitiation?

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You would violate everything the scriptures say about the atonement. Read the book of Hebrews. It is so clear.

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It is so plain. I didn't have time to expand upon this and my time is passing me by, but I didn't have time to expand upon this last night.

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But in my closing statement, Dr. St. Genesis talked about how deplorable it was that I had seen a context shift as the vast majority of both

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Catholic and Protestant scholarship must be deplorable between verses 16 and 17. What goes first for these chapter three verses 10 through 15 and I respond by saying, let me tell you what

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I think is deplorable. What I think is deplorable is looking at passages that talk about the ability of God to save perfectly and reading into them some man's controlling capacity so as to steal

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God of his sovereignty. And I was specifically referring to Hebrews chapter seven. Therefore, he is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through him since he always lives to make intercession for them.

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What's the text about? It's about Jesus. It's about Jesus's ability. Therefore, he is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through him since he always lives to do what?

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To make intercession for them. It seems to me the text is talking about Jesus's power to be a perfect savior and any person here who knows your own sin knows you need a savior like that.

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If you know your heart, you rejoice in a savior who is able to save completely.

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And yet, when I raised that very text in a debate in Utah with doctors, his response is, well,

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Jesus wants to save forever, but there's this problem called sin. We make the debate available.

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You see, folks, there is a fundamental difference of vision here. A fundamental difference between a gospel that is

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God centered, God is glorifying himself in the salvation of particular people and man centered where God is trying real hard, but right now he's not really doing too well.

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And I understand there are people who believe that. But I have to be consistent with this word.

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And this word tells me of a Jesus who has come down out of heaven not to do his own will, but the will of him who sent him.

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And what is the will of him who sent him? That's what Jesus said in John 6, 39. Take a look at it. What is the will of the father for Jesus?

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That of all that he has given me, I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

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Let me ask you a question, my friends. Is your Jesus capable of fulfilling the will of the father in that situation?

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I don't ask that question, Mike, because very often our traditions give us a Jesus who's not really quite up to that.

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Think about what it means. There in John chapter six, for a moment, the very veil of eternity is drawn aside.

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We are, we, we are ushered into a situation where we, we know something about the relationship with the father and the son, what the will of the one divine person to the other divine person is.

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This is the will father of the son, that of all that he has given me, do you believe in the

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God who can give a certain people to Jesus, that of all that he has given me, I lose how much

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I'm going to be a 90 % savior. That'd be pretty good. We've got the baseball stuff going on right now.

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The Yankees got me. Yeah. The last best world series, 2001,

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Arizona Diamondbacks, Yankees, seven games, won the bottom of the ninth against a Rivera.

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Oh, wow. Let me tell you something. That was the best one we've had a long time. Curt Schilling, Randy Johnson. Oh, and they went and played for other people.

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So anyway, sort of ruined the whole thing. But be that as it may, baseball's going on right now. Who are the best hitters?

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What are their percentages? 350, 360. Would Jesus be a good savior?

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If he was 350, 360, would you want to trust him? If you had about a 65 % chance of not making it, what must be true of Jesus?

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If John 6 39 is really a revelation from God that of all the father gives me,

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I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

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He has to be, he has to possess the power that is given to him. In Hebrews chapter seven, verse 25, he has to be able to save in and of himself.

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My friends, there is a fundamental difference between saying

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Jesus died to make salvation possible and saying Jesus died to save.

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There is a fundamental difference between those things. And I believe that with the apostle

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Paul in Galatians chapter two, when he said, I am crucified with Christ.

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Nevertheless, I live in, not I, but Christ lives in me. In the life that I live, in the flesh, I live by the faith of the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.

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That is what every Christian can say. I have been crucified with Christ.

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If you are in him, then his death is your death. His resurrection then is your resurrection.

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You can face death with confidence knowing that the one to whom you are united has already conquered death.

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That is the power of the faith in the emergency room, in the

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CCU. And I am not just an apologist. I was a hospital chaplain for a while.

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I had to live that. That is the power. His death, my death.

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My friends, will any reprobate sinner standing on the parapets of hell and eternity screaming his anger and hatred toward God be able to say,

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I was crucified with Christ. I have destroyed his work. Will he?

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Will he? Will he be able to stand upon the parapets of hell and say,

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Christ interceded for me, but I destroyed his work. I don't believe so.

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And I have never found anything in that inspired word to make me believe so. It is not that I have some theology

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I am forcing on the text. I submit to you that someone who has an infallible external authority and denies the sufficiency of scripture is the one who has an external authority you need to be looking at.

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I don't have one of those. John Calvin is not my external authority. John Calvin would have had me drowned or burned or exiled or something.

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I'm a Baptist. I'm a Baptist. I can appreciate when men said true things.

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I don't have to bow my knee and say, oh, you're infallible. I think we have to do that with any church leader, past or present.

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Brief suppositions I brought to this debate, pretty straightforward. God has spoken.

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I didn't go to external sources to prove my points. I held the Roman Catholic teaching of purgatory to the standard of what is theodemous to us.

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Because, folks, the Bible never tells us anything else is God -breathed. Men's traditions are not

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God -breathed. Jesus taught us to test traditions by the authority of that which is

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God -breathed. Rome has that reversed. Rome can't do that. My poet last night cannot test the teachings of the

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Roman Catholic Church by scripture. Can't do it. It's not possible. It's epistemologically impossible for them to do so.

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I believe that God has a purpose that He is working out. And from beginning to end, it is

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His glory. Thank God. His glorification involves the salvation of wretched, undeserving sinners.

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Taking men and women who are God -haters, taking out a heart of stone, giving them a heart of flesh.

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Some people don't like that. It's biblical. In case you've read Ezekiel recently. There are some people, that's it.

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Are you talking about God rewiring us or something? I have to wonder sometimes.

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I remember a woman called me on a radio program we used to have a long time ago.

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I was talking about God's sovereignty and salvation. She was very, very strong on this concept of man's autonomy, man's free will.

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And I said, let me ask you a question. When Jesus stood outside of Lazarus' tomb. Remember John 11?

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What did Jesus say? A loud voice, everybody could hear it. Lazarus, come forth.

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I said, do you really think that the voice could have come back? No, thank you.

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You don't know what it's like living with those two sisters. Stand here.

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I like this dead thing. It's cool in here. Seriously, folks.

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Could the Son of God have failed? When He said, Lazarus, come forth. Is there any power in heaven or earth that could have caused the

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Son of God to fail that way? She said, yes. She said,

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Lazarus had the free will to stay right there. Well, she was consistent.

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She was consistent, just not Christian, that's all. There are many people who believe that way.

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There are many people who believe that way. The last presupposition I brought doesn't flow from the

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Institutes of Christian Religion by John Calvary. It doesn't flow from the bondage of the will by Martin Luther.

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Though it's a good book, by the way. The length of it, I don't believe it really was all that much, but that's a mystery.

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Thank you. I was waiting for Chris to laugh there.

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I was going to stand up here the rest of the time, just waiting for Chris to laugh. It's not why

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I believe those things. It's not because there's some external authority that said, you need to believe these things. The reason I believe these things is because I am prisoner of the

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Word of God. I have to believe what it teaches, and I have to believe it consistently. And I strive for that consistency.

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The Scriptures tell me that Jesus Christ has this power. That Jesus Christ has entered into the holy place.

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And that he stands as a lamb slain from the foundation of the earth. He doesn't have to be re -sacrificed over and over again, and I want to close with this.

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I know my time is almost up. Please listen with me, just very, very briefly.

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Ken, are you going to rush the stage while I go five minutes over? Okay. Listen to these words.

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For the law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually, year by year, make perfect those who draw near.

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Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshippers, having once been cleansed, no longer have had consciousness of sins?

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But in those sacrifices, those regular sacrifices, the yearly sacrifices, Yom Kippur, over and over again, every year, in those sacrifices, there is a reminder of sins, year by year.

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You know why there's no purgatory? Because the foundation, and Robert St. James just said it a few minutes ago, purgatory comes from the foundation of the teachings of the

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Roman Catholic Church. He's right. It is the end result of previous beliefs.

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In Roman Catholicism, you have a repetitive sacrifice. You approach the

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Mass over and over and over and over again. And the

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Apostle says repetitive sacrifices tell you one thing. That sacrifice cannot perfect.

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That sacrifice is not complete. Think about what the high priest saw when he went into the holy place.

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Let's say you're a high priest, you've been doing this for 15, 20 years. You bring that bowl with the blood, and it's warm.

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It's just flowed from the victim. And you enter into the holy place, and there's the

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Ark, and there's the angels with their wings spread over it, and you're about to sprinkle the blood. But you see, you've done this for 15 or 20 years, and guess what's there on that Ark?

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It's the dry blood that you left there last time. Can you imagine what it looked like after a while?

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And as you stood there, thinking about how many times you had done this, what would cross your mind?

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This must be pointing to something else. There must be something more. My sins have not been taken away, because if they were,

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I wouldn't be back here putting this animal blood on the animal blood on the dried animal blood on the dried animal blood.

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It has to point forward to something more. And so what you have in verse 3 of chapter 10 of Hebrews, in these is an anamnesis of sins.

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An anamnesis of sins. A reminder. It's a reminder of sins.

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But the glorious message of the gospel is, we in the new covenant, we have an anamnesis to it.

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Very same word. It's not used very often in the New Testament. We have an anamnesis too.

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And you might be familiar with where else it's found. First Corinthians chapter 11, the apostle

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Paul talks about the Lord's Supper. And he gives us the words of Jesus in instituting that supper, not as a sacrifice.

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But he says, as often as he eats the bread and drinks the blood, that's 3 to 1.

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John chapter 6. As often as you do this, you do it how? As a remembrance of sin?

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No. You do it in remembrance of me. That's an anamnesis.

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Very same word. We don't have a remembrance of sins.

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We have remembrance of the sin -bearer. In the new covenant, we don't have a repetitive sacrifice that reminds us there's something greater to come.

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We look back upon the cross. It is finished. It is completed.

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We live in the light of it. It was once for all.

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One time. Never to be repeated. That's the message of the book of Hebrews.

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That's the message of the gospel. That we have a finished and perfect sacrifice.

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And it renders absolutely worthless and anti -Christian, the concept of purgatory.

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You have to have a false gospel to need a purgatory. Those are the presuppositions that I bring.

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They come, the inspired scriptures. And we close our time with a prayer.

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Our gracious triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, we thank you that indeed you have spoken with clarity in your word.

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That Father, in eternity past, you became the very fountainhead of salvation.

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Our Lord Jesus Christ, eternal Son, at the right time, you entered into your own creation.

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You took on flesh, became man, the God -man. You lived a perfect life.

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You gave yourself on Calvary's tree. You were buried and you rose again, victorious over death.

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And Holy Spirit, that to this very day, you have been building that church.

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You have been working the miracle of regeneration. You have been bringing your people to spiritual life, as you have for us.

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We are so thankful that there is no power in heaven or earth that can cause the triune

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God to fail the accomplishment of the divine purpose. So we thank you for the gospel.

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It's a powerful gospel. It's changed our lives. We ask that we would see it to go forth with power in our land and change so many more lives.

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We thank you for this day. We thank you for this opportunity to look at your truth.