July 4, 2016 Show with Jason Wallace on “Is the Church of Latter-Day Saints the Church of Jesus Christ?”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host.

Chris Arnson. Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnson your host of Iron Sharpens Iron wishing you all a happy 4th of July on this 4th of July 2016 and I'm in here in the studio with my co-host the Reverend John Buzz Taylor and the reason why I mentioned his real first name will make will be made clear in a little while because he happens to share a name with an infinite an infamous member of a cult but we are going to be discussing something very apropos for the 4th of July.

You know I remember the old Chevrolet jingle on TV they go together in the good old USA baseball hot dogs apple pie and Chevrolet well you could add and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to that but you know even though many people take pride in seeing a label or putting a label on a product that they have invented created or sell that says made in the USA that may stand for quality and authenticity in many areas of life but that is not necessarily the case with religion as we will come to see.

One of the most well-known homegrown religions born right here on American soil the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also known as the Mormons is going to be our discussion today with my friend Pastor Jason Wallace pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church which is an orthodox Presbyterian congregation in Salt Lake City Utah.

We're going to be talking about a dialogue that our mutual friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries is having at Christ Presbyterian Church not this weekend but the following weekend and he's also in addition to that going to be having a dialogue with a Muslim on another day of this conference and we hope that as many of you who live in the Salt Lake City area can attend that as possible and we hope that those of you who don't live in that area make the trip out there.

We do have listeners all over the United States and some of them are very close to Utah and in Utah itself so but let me welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Pastor Jason Wallace and Pastor Jason Wallace in addition to this conference wants us to discuss a really professional informative fascinating riveting documentary those things don't often go together riveting and documentary but in this case especially if you are theologically minded you will be riveted by this documentary I believe and you can see that video absolutely free of charge at lds .video lds standing for Latter-day Saints dot video but on the air I'd like to have my co-host Reverend John Buzz Taylor greet you.

Well hello. It's good to talk to you again and of course we've met each other over the phone a number of times because of working with you on the video which I guess we're going to be discussing later on also.

In fact I think the reason Chris talks about this as being riveting.

And all is because his voice is on it. Well that that was where the quality and the professionalism came in and of course you could stop listening when Reverend Buzz Taylor's voice comes up you could fast forward or whatever you have to do.

They won't even recognize me. And that's always a good thing but anyway. This is going to be two hours long. But anyway Pastor Jason first of all tell us something about the denomination where your church is a member the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

I know we do this every time but there are people who do discover this program for the first time regularly especially now that we're in World Magazine with a full-page ad and there are some people who have a knee-jerk reaction to the the name Presbyterian because they immediately think of the liberal mainline dead apostate church that may be down the block.

Now please I do have friends in the PCUSA who are evangelical bible-believing Christians and I do not intend to broad brush you but you yourselves know that there's a lot of mischief going on to say the least in that denomination of the PCUSA but the Orthodox Presbyterian Church was actually.

Formed because of that wasn't it Jason? They were getting in the way of form. Oh so they were.

Actually kicked out. They didn't voluntarily leave on their own initiative. To begin with? Not.

That'd be Jay Gresham Machen and others? Yeah. Machen and his dynasty of liberal kicked them out just to leave and follow them. Almost every one of them had to forfeit their property their pensions and everything else so there wasn't exactly a rush for the door.

But we're a remnant of bible-believing historic Presbyterians. Yes and I happen to be as you know a Reformed.

Baptist as is your guest speaker next week. James White and we hold to the 1689 London Baptist Confession which was intentionally almost copied verbatim to demonstrate unity with the between the Baptists and Presbyterians in the 1600s but there was obviously alterations to conform with Baptist polity and the ordinance of baptism.

But now tell us something about Christ Presbyterian Church which is it's always good to hear that there is a solid congregation true to its Reformation heritage in a place like Salt Lake City, Utah which is immediately I'm sure that people who aren't even theologically minded the first thing that they're going to think of when they hear of Salt Lake let alone Utah is Mormons.

You know that's going to be the immediate thing that pops into their head. But if you could tell us about that congregation and how it.

How it started there and so on. Preaching we sing psalms and hymns and the actual metrical psalms of 60 -40 psalms to hymns. The hymns are ones that mirror the content. Well the website for your.

Congregation is very easy to remember gospelutah .org gospelutah .org that's a new URL that you have. It used to be christpres .net but that still goes to gospelutah .org if you click on the right button there so remember that folks gospelutah .org.

Now let our listeners know about these exciting events that you have coming up with our mutual friend Dr. James R. White of.

Alpha Omega Ministries. And we have to be more specific though these aren't just ordinary street.

Preachers in fact. James White and I have friends that we love dearly like Tony Miano and Jeff Rose and other guys who are wonderful guys. These are guys who are for the most part aren't even.

Connected to a church. Their idea of preaching is generous. The burning effigies of Joseph Smith. Well yeah that's what God is. Yeah and it's very unfortunate that that's really brought an abrupt.

End to a very long history of James White's evangelism there and I'm sure that he still in some capacity is reaching out to those people because he's constantly through the airwaves on the dividing line program and other things and his writing and his public speaking and debating.

Yeah the word is getting out to them.

I think we had as many as to come to town. Yeah I've actually heard of him. Some I've found and James knows him very well and so they'll be dialoguing over the question is the Jesus of Mormonism the Jesus of the Bible?

Then the next night he'll be dialoguing with a we got word back from the Muslim Student Association. They're excited and they're so that'll be Friday and Saturday. Sunday teaching Sunday school on the Trinity and then he'll be preaching at the 11 a .m service and the 5 30.

Last year we had a number of churches from a Free Will Baptist Church and their pastor come and join us for that. Oh wow you mean the denomination Free Will Baptist? Yeah. Okay great. We weren't doing a joint same churches for Baptist churches and this year a couple of others may be coming as well to the evening service.

It'll be really nice culture. The stuff in the news it's just tie it all together. The conference is all centered around who is Jesus. We've got the two dialogues and then presentation Monday night. Well don't.

Forget gospelutah .org. Gospelutah .org is the website for Christ Presbyterian Church in Salt Lake City Utah and now you might want to talk to your graphics guy because I'm looking at the website. I'm colorblind but all of the subheadings of home and resources and all those things it looks like dark gray and a black background so I can hardly see any of these.

But how do our listeners find out actually about the conference when they go to gospelutah .org?

I've got some past debates further down that page but right at the top in red.

Great and if you are a fellow sufferer of colorblindness like me best of luck to you.

It's right next to debates for the colorblind.

And I want to also get into this really masterfully done documentary that you created and unlike the insult that we heard earlier from my co-host Reverend Buzz Taylor who is accusing me of only boasting about this because I am a part of it or my voice is.

It is actually a believe me if I was embarrassed by it my voice was in it I wouldn't tell anybody about it. It's a really well done documentary. The research that is involved in this documentary and the evidence the irrefutable evidence which leaves the honest person with no conclusion other than to realize that the leaders of the Mormon church or the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from its inception to the present day have been very dishonest and very crafty about spinning the facts what they present to the general public is something far different than what they know to be commonplace in their own private meetings and so on.

But the truth will make you free. An earnest plea to Latter-day Saints is the documentary and before any of our Mormon friends get upset that they think this is a hit piece or something nasty that that the Christ Presbyterian Church has done out of a motivation of bigotry you are actually responding to something that Joseph Smith had said which is a part of the very cornerstone of the foundation of the the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that you felt compelled to respond to as a Presbyterian it was in regard to something specific that Joseph Smith had said the founder.

Of Mormonism about the Presbyterian Church in the Pearl that is uh it specifically says before that that he should join none of the churches because they were all their professors were corrupt and all their creeds were were an abomination in his sight.

It's one of the first things we deal with in the film. We never speak negatively of anyone you know we never attack other churches. This is you know uh you know they can. Yeah and uh just to remind our listeners and I hope to repeat it.

Several times throughout the broadcast but you can find out more about this documentary at lds dot video that's lds for latter-day saints dot video and uh we should obviously because there are a lot of people even evangelicals who are really ignorant about what Mormonism is.

I I have heard a number of Christians even theologically reformed Christians not not anybody in pastoral positions or people of any kind of authority but people who are just members of congregations who largely due to the popularity of Glenn Beck the conservative political pundit talk host who is a they have come to think of Mormonism as just a denomination of conservative evangelicalism and I know people who are convinced he is a born-again believer in Christ because of things that he says and what they don't know is that Mormons very often use the same vocabulary but have a different dictionary but if you could tell us some something about the actual origins of Mormonism as far as Joseph Smith's visit from the angel and obviously we're going to have to summarize because there's a lot of other things we want to get into and uh also the the main pillars of what they believe that makes them makes their religion actually a polar opposite 180 degrees opposite religion to Christianity and that may surprise people because the name Jesus Christ is in the name of their their religion they think well it's gotta have some connection to Christianity uh but it's really it's it's really amazingly uh totally foreign to to Christianity in almost every aspect but um we will have you do that when we come back to the break because we have to go to a station break right now and if you'd like to those of you listening if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for our guest Pastor Jason Wallace of Christ Presbyterian Church in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, we're going to be right back after these messages with Pastor Jason Wallace. Hi, I'm Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

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Visit World News Group at wng .org forward slash Iron Sharpens today. Tired of box store Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert? Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

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And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you. Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times. 631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us. Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen on our special 4th of July edition of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I'm here with my co-host Reverend Buzz Taylor and our guest Pastor Jason Wallace of Christ Presbyterian Church and we are discussing Mormonism and it just so happens that Christ Presbyterian Church is located in Salt Lake City, Utah so it's a no-brainer that when we have Pastor Jason Wallace on the program we at least have to discuss this issue sometime and he is not only pastor of that church but he's producer of the video documentary that you can see for free at lds .video.

I'm sorry lds .video that's lds .video that's a new url that many of you may be unfamiliar with the dot video and we hope that as many of you who hear this program watch that video whether you're Mormon or not and please share it with your Mormon friends and loved ones and before we return to our discussion I just have a couple of announcements to make.

First of all, speaking of cults, my very dear friend Deborah Antognano who is a former Jehovah's Witness who is now a born-again believer in Christ and who she is on fire for the doctrines of sovereign grace and you can go to her website at matteroftheheart .net matteroftheheart .net she's also a Christian recording artist.

She is going to be on Fox and Friends tomorrow morning, God willing, at 7 30 a .m. and she is going to be sitting on a panel discussing why political correctness is destroying the United States of America and making the lives of all of its citizens in further jeopardy.

The political correctness is basically putting us all in danger in many aspects of life and she is going to be on a panel, God willing, tomorrow morning at 7 30 on Fox and Friends so I hope that you tune into that.

Also a very good friend of mine who's been on this program a number of times, Pastor Mac Tomlinson, he is going to be a part of a Bible conference August 4th through the 6th in Portland, Maine, the former home state of my co-host Buzz Taylor and this is going to be a conference which is called Fellowship Conference New England and it's going to feature fellowship preaching and singing that center on the glory of God and there is going to be a whole host of speakers there including my friend Pastor Mac Tomlinson and Michael Durham and a number of other speakers, Charles Leiter and this is going to be an event that if you live in New England, especially if you live in Maine, you should certainly attend and I know that we do on occasion get listeners from Maine emailing us but even if you are just close by, you might want to make an effort to jump in a train plane or automobile and get there.

Dog sled. Yeah and the website for that is fellowshipconferencenewengland .com fellowshipconferencenewengland .com and we thank our friends Pastor Mac Tomlinson and all involved in the Fellowship Conference New England for helping to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Now returning to our subject at hand, is the Church of Latter-day Saints the Church of Jesus Christ? Mormons and their new efforts on ecumenism, a religion as American as apple pie examined on 4th of July and if you could Jason, tell us about the genesis of the Mormon Church which I believe initially was called just the Church of Christ or something to that effect, something a lot more simple than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints but if you could tell us the origins of this and even a little bit of the background of Joseph Smith who I understand was a treasure hunter and whose integrity was.

Called into question by a lot of people who knew him well. Golden plates. Religious awake joined the Presbyterian Church for a time. Smith himself didn't. He said he always found himself much more attracted to.

He actually tried to join the Methodist Church. One has found these plates. About time the narrative gets embellished. The young man he had gone, this is supposedly in 1823, to the sects he's supposed to join and so he goes into a group of trees and prays and God appears directly to him and tells him he should join none of them.

This is where the whole vision I alluded to before. The finding of the Book of Mormon, he didn't find them until 1829 and that's when he gets them in 1830. They tend to look particularly Puritan, you know, but Puritanism had for people that knew Benny Hinn, what he had to say.

This was in upstate New York, right?

You mean Alexander Campbell? What did I say? Archibald.

Thomas and Alexander Campbell. Right, right. Yeah, the commonality there, the Restorationist vision, is that Christianity basically had.

Entirely become corrupt and it was their job to restore it to its original purity, as if there ever really was a purity, even in the New Testament church, because you see all kinds of horrible things going on with the church at Corinth and so on.

But that's basically the.

Similar vision that those two groups had, right? Religious Manifestus idea that if you burn content. So I'm going to, believe it or not folks, we actually have an original recording that was.

Made in the early days of recording devices. We have a recording of Brigham Young who is the successor to Joseph Smith, the founder. But here's something that Brigham Young had to say about Christianity that you might find interesting.

Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called? It is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity. That was Brigham Young, the second leader of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was actually me pretending to be Brigham Young.

And I don't know why, I'm sorry? And doing a great job. I appreciate that. I have no idea why I chose that kind of voice, but I was trying to give some kind of a sound of somebody who had authority and perhaps a little bit of self-righteousness combined.

But anyway, I'm glad that you were happy with that. I think you nailed it. And let me just, since that was so brief, I'm going to play one more for now and perhaps we'll get to some more in a little bit.

But let's see, here's another one. And believe me, folks, there's a lot more in this documentary than just me. It just so happens that Jason sent me the MP3s of my recordings. To my certain knowledge, Emma Smith is one of the damnedest liars I know of on this earth.

Yet there is no good thing I would refuse to do for her, if she would only be a righteous woman. But she will continue in her wickedness. Not six months before the death of Joseph, he called his wife Emma into a secret council.

And there he told her the truth and called upon her to deny it if she could. He told her that the judgments of God would come upon her forthwith if she did not repent. He told her of the time she undertook to poison him.

And he told her that she was a child of hell and literally the most wicked woman on this earth, that there was not one more wicked than she. He told here where she got the poison and how she put it in a cup of coffee.

Said he, you got that poison from so-and-so, and I drank it, but you could not kill me. When it entered his stomach, he went to the door and threw it off. He spoke to her in that council in a very severe manner, and she never said one word in reply.

I have witnesses of this scene all around who can testify that I am now telling the truth. Twice she undertook to kill him. Now that is pretty startling because that is an actual verbatim quote from Brigham Young, who is one of the very key original leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the successor of Joseph Smith after his assassination.

And the thing that's ironic or amazing about that quote is that today, although the Mormon Church upholds Brigham Young as their hero, obviously, not too many people, especially not too many college sports fans, are unfamiliar with BYU, Brigham Young University.

Brigham Young is still upheld as a hero, obviously, they have to uphold him as a hero to maintain any semblance of him being a prophet, but at the same time that they still regard him in such a way, they also elevate Emma Smith to a heroic level of adoration, and yet here we have of a plot to kill Joseph Smith by his own wife, Emma, the very one that the Mormons seem to have rewritten history.

About. Am I right? Right to do in the first part of the two people today, and there's a... Does the original statue have her hand behind his back.

With an eyedropper and a cup of coffee? That's right, that's right. And I originally thought that it had to do with the caffeine content, but I heard that it was really the hot beverages were not allowed or something like that.

Now, how have Mormons responded to this irony that Brigham Young... I'm sure the average Mormon has no idea that Brigham Young revealed this murder plot by Emma, but I mean, when they are confronted with these things, I mean, especially leaders, how do they reconcile their elevation of Emma Smith as a hero while she was attempting to kill their very prophet, according to Brigham Young?

Now, and of course, do you think Brigham Young was telling the truth? He may have been lying, I don't know,.

But even if he was lying, it's their prophet who's saying this, so therefore they can't elevate both of them as heroes. Right, and the section we hit that against the... Now, there seems to... Look it, I'm sorry.

Yeah, that's the same kind of conversations I have with my moderate to liberal.

Catholic friends when I bring up the Council of Trent's anathemas against Protestants, and they'll say, hey, it's the third millennium, for crying out loud, the Council of Trent was in the 1500s, what are you still bringing that up for?

Well, it's dogma, that's why! But now, what I was going to say is, and I don't want to go on too many rabbit trails, because we do have a lot to cover here, and I already know that I have to have you back for another two hours soon on this same subject, but from my understanding of the founding of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which does have some radical differences than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Reorganized Church is not polytheist from what I understand, and it was started by, I believe, wasn't it started by Emma and Joseph's son, who she believed was the rightful.

Prophet to succeed Joseph after he was assassinated? Go ahead. The people to follow. 1872,.

And today it's known as the Community of Christ, they just recently, within a decade I think, changed the name, maybe even less than a decade ago. It's a whole lot easier just to call them RLDS. Right.

One of the reasons I brought them up is, do they not claim, and since Emma was a very crucial part of the formation of that group, do they not claim that Joseph Smith.

Was never a polygamist, and that's why they never practiced it? Oh, okay, I didn't know that.

Now, did you think that she was being dishonest, or do you think that she just didn't know? Okay. I don't know if he was going on long business trips, you know, very long business.

Tidbits. Wow. I'm going to, before we go to the break, I'm going to play one more clip. For now,.

Anyway, of yours truly on this documentary. You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable, and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of anyone of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race, that they should be the servant of servants, and they will be until that curse is removed, and the abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree.

How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the priesthood and the keys thereof.

Until the last ones of the residue of Adam's children are brought up to that favorable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed.

When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive blessings in like proportion. Well, that was the voice of me pretending to be Brigham Young, but reading from an actual quote, and we're going to be right back after these messages to discuss the ramifications of that quote from Brigham Young, the Mormon prophet, and as just as Desi Arnaz used to say, you got some splainin' to do, because this doesn't go well with the politically correct atmosphere of our modern society, and actually this would be one area of political correctness that is good, because we even as Bible-believing Christians abhor racism, and the Mormons have obviously done a PR job at trying to rewrite their history in this regard, but we're going to be back after these messages to explain more of the ramifications of that quote by Brigham Young, so don't go away.

We'll be right back with Pastor Jason Waller.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen in studio with my co-host, the Reverend Buzz Taylor, and we are interviewing Jason Wallace, the pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church in Salt Lake City, Utah, as they prepare for an upcoming conference starting not this weekend, but the weekend after on Friday, July 15th through, is it through that Sunday?

Through Monday, and it's not only a conference, but it includes two dialogues featuring our mutual friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, who has written, among other things, Is the Mormon My Brother?, and also What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Quran, and both of those issues are going to be coming up at that conference as James White has a dialogue with not only a Mormon, but also with a Muslim on two different days, and for more information, go to GospelUtah .org, GospelUtah .org, and we're discussing right now the documentary that Jason has developed, which you can see in its entirety for free at LDS .video, LDS for Latter-day Saints dot video, and before the break, we were revealing some actual quotations of Brigham Young, which I recorded for the documentary, that were revealing the vehemently racist roots, anti-black roots of Mormonism, which is interesting, because when I brought that up to a Mormon missionary in my living room back in the perhaps the late 1980s, when I responded to a television ad, would you like a book of Mormon hand-delivered by a Mormon elder to your home?

I'd called the 800 number and waited patiently in ambush for him and his friend from the church, and they came and we had a very pleasant conversation until I revealed that I believed he had a false and damning religion, and when I brought up this racist, irrefutable racist element of their origins, this young man says, well who are you to talk?

You're a Baptist and there are Baptists in the Ku Klux Klan, and my response to him was, yeah, but I think that there will be many Baptists in hell. We're talking about your prophets, your apostles, who spoke apparently, according to you, as oracles of God, right from the very lips of God to their ears.

There's something radically different, isn't there, between some idiot Baptist or idiot person professing to be a Christian, evangelical no matter what denomination, and their prophet. Isn't there a big difference?

Jason, are you there? Yeah, I'm sorry.

And he's not just saying that this is telling you this is the law of God, how do you tell a true prophet from a false prophet? And the husband looks at his wife and...

Yeah, there's a difference between something that Brigham Young may have said in a private conversation over lunch to someone and something that he was teaching dogmatically, and it was actually the way that their religion had been structured accordingly.

I mean, you can't say that this is just a part of him being a mortal, sinful human, because I mean we could quote some horrendous things even from some of our Puritan heroes and people from the past who said...

I've had... I don't look gay, but it's similar to no matter what any day.

Yeah. In fact, I don't know if you included that with Bruce McConkie. I believe that was one of the quotes I read. I don't know if I said that to you. Well, we'll get to... I think I did, actually. Okay.

Well, let me play one more quote for now by Brigham Young, and sit back, relax, and listen to the voice of Brigham Young, Mormon Apostle. Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race?

If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so. Now, that is clearly not a personal opinion of a fallible man in regard to Mormonism.

Obviously, we believe that it's the personal opinion of a lost false prophet, but these folks cannot say that this just has something to do with the fallible human nature of all men on this earth. This was, indeed, a mandate being delivered that he said was already.

In place. Not a bad idea. But they're still claiming that they're still the first through him, and so we're actually doing a shorter video, trying to keep it under two hours. I didn't know that an hour and 58 minutes...

Yeah, but people have a pause button for crying out loud.

Yeah, that's a good idea. The sexual union between God and Mary. Okay, we are back on the air, ladies and gentlemen. We're.

Not sure why we went off the air. Perhaps there's some kind of conspiracy against what we're doing today, but we are back on the air, and we apologize that we lost you all for a moment.

Well, Chris, I think your computer needs to get saved.

And going back to what we were saying before, that these quotes by Brigham Young could not be mistaken for the unfortunate ramblings of a man who shares a sinful nature with mankind, and is still imperfect on this planet.

These were actually the dogmatic mandates and theological commandments with regard to the theological and ecclesiastical framework of their entire religion on who was and was not to receive the priesthood, and other things involved in exaltation to godhood, and many other issues that the black race was being forbidden by the Mormon prophets.

Themselves. It was a prophet out they've thrown. Yeah, and it's interesting that the Mormon.

Missionary I mentioned earlier, who was in my living room in the 1980s, and he was affirming everything that I said about the Mormon church, the things that I was bringing up that were somewhat of an embarrassment to them.

In fact, it was interesting that the older man that was with him, who I thought was going to be the brains of the pair, kept putting his foot in his mouth, and he was very robotically saying to me, what you are saying does indeed sound strange, but you probably heard this from people who do not know the truth about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

And then the younger man was like, no, that's what we believe. He did this like three times. But when it came to Brigham Young's teaching that Jesus was conceived through an actual physical sexual union, that's when he stood up and got mad, and he said, that's a lie.