Session 6: Q&A with Darrell Harrison and Virgil Walker, Part 2

All right, our very first question is we need you guys to approve a design oh

Yeah, all right You couldn't get your design guy on it, so I got my design guy on it man

I Like that so that will be available at the church website

Man if you did that You talk about people coming at you only thing missing is the reference to act 1726

That's the only thing missing to give it context I like that.

All right. All right first question I'm gonna try and go through the ones that we've got from the office here so far you take that down Somebody's probably taking a picture and then shout it out on social it'll be a whole nother issue

Tomorrow when you guys can deal with that yeah, we can handle it From your book about the state your chapter on elections and going into the voting booth with a biblical worldview was absolutely relevant

I use the information talking with others over and over have you thought of printing this in a way that we can hand it out

To people to educate them before elections. Oh well we have the the actual episode that that that that was the

Catalyst for the chapter one of the things that we did as a part of the process to putting the book together we we actually took the sections from the

Our we started with the transcripts from the the actual episodes and then from that we would build out whatever we needed

And then would edit it and make sure that it read in a way that you weren't reading the podcast But that you were reading a book as if you were sitting down and we were talking directly to you

So the the goal the process was for to to look like that sound like that read like that And for the most part

I think between us and the editor They did a fantastic job It was a kind of collaborative effort if you want to take that portion

Separately and give it to someone. I would just encourage you to do that I mean you could go back and actually get the episode.

I don't remember what number it was like Yeah, I don't know what number episode that was all look it up. I'll look at one I would just get that knows your podcast.

Yeah, I would just I would just go grab that episode and send it to someone for them to listen to and think about separately

So that you don't have to buy the whole book but I would also encourage I would also encourage the purchase of the book because it is a

It's a compendium of information that will be helpful year after year after year we we wrote it so that it could be a resource for someone to use over and over we had a conversation with with one of the

Folks who put the publisher who put the book together and said well, here's what sales are doing My thought is every election cycle with regard to this book

You should see a spike in sales as people begin to think about how should I think about? This issue or that issue biblically and and the hope would be that they would pick up that book and it would be yeah

I was just gonna mention real quick in the book The chapter is titled just elections, but on the podcast the episode is titled the doctrine of elections

But they shortened the title of it in the book The table of contents, but if you're gonna go listen to the episode, it's episode 105

But the title is the doctrine of elections Do you want to tell a little bit about what we covered in that?

I mean the reason I mentioned that it's simply because If you are reformed and you hear doctrine of elections, you're actually thinking about Soteriology, right and that's not what we cover.

It is actually about words Yeah, it's a play on that. It's a play on the words and the thought process is, you know

What what kind of a worldview do we need to have as we go into the election booth? What kinds of things should we be thinking about?

How should we be thinking about issues biblically speaking as we approach an election the election?

Yeah That episode is like a three -hour Biblical primer on how to vote and what I'm most proud of in the work that we version

I did in that episode is we Went three hours. We didn't name a single political candidate by name and we don't mention a single political party by name

But we give you three hours of biblical precepts and principles Which we hope would encourage you to to go into the voting booth with a biblical worldview

So as to not be so we wouldn't be in the position of being accused of being biased or whatever We don't mention any candidate by name

No political party by name in three hours worth of content. So that episode is evergreen as Virgil just said

And you know coming upon a minor or major election cycle You should send that episode out to everyone, you know,

I'd have to listen to it. I'll be helpful All right, the amount of material resources and books that you to read for your podcast is immense How do you find time to do that research and how do you schedule that in one of the reasons why we don't do the?

podcast every week is for that very reason and and down can walk through a little bit of how we process each

Subject but every time we begin a portion of research, we've just got to do it as we go.

We have to consider Okay, we've got travel schedules. We've got work We got to take care of so we really are processing all of those things and we won't we won't do an episode until we feel like we fully vetted the the subject one of the things that really caused

I think an elevation or an increase in In in the amount of research that goes into each episode

For me at least and Darrell could speak to this himself. It was who was listening It was who was listening right initially.

It was just me and Darrell We're having a good time in a couple hundred people but when it gets to 10 ,000 and then 20 ,000 in a 50 ,000 episode and then a 80 ,000 and then a hundred thousand plus I'm thinking that's a whole lot of folks who are listening and Many of them while many of them are favorable to what we say and do there are a number of them who are not

Can I interject real quick right here? Speaking of speaking of a number of them that are not It's not a large number, but the small number there's a small number.

What I'm calling right now for is a Person who shall remain anonymous. They left us a review a negative review on Apple iTunes on Apple podcast

They left us a negative review They accused us of being too articulate I'm not kidding that review said we were too articulate.

He gave us a one -star One star out of five because he said we were too articulate. Was it Joe Biden? He wants to Take away and clean.

Yeah. Yeah, so so we as we begin thinking about who's listening It's imperative that we get things right and Darrell spoke to this earlier.

That's important to us Right if I'm if I'm quoting something to you from Someone who's who has a different worldview.

I want to be honest about About what they're saying what they're doing how they're believing and so again you'll hear let's try to quote from original resource material because we want to be accurate and what's

Said and and doing that takes time. It's more than just a quick Google search and you got it and pop and go

You've got to buy these books at times and read through them and unpack them so that takes time

So our hope is that with each episode you come away feeling like wow if I hadn't listened to that There's no way

I would have had the time To go research that and know that apart from these guys spending the time taking the time and dissecting it for us and then pushing

Whatever the issue is through a biblical worldview. And so that's kind of that's kind of the thought process.

It takes a while Right now we're we're trying to average about one episode per month

And I think this is the first time that it's gonna be a little bit It's gonna be a little bit delayed because of our travel schedule for the month of June So we have to push the next episode out to the middle of July.

Yeah. Yeah, but just give you guys some background the birds kind of Alluded to this give you guys some background on how we how we do what we do

Usually there's nothing scientific or complicated about it If there's a topic or an issue or a theme that's burdening one of our hearts

We'll just send a text message out and like Virgil for instance Well, the episode that's coming up the one that we're gonna be releasing in middle middle of July is titled cultural denominationalism

Virgil sends me a text and says hey, I think we should do one on denominationalism and I texted back

I said political denominationalism. He said yeah, they're not a couple days later I was dwelling that's a non -political denominational is too narrow.

I said, what about cultural denominationalism? He said let's do it. So I got to work So that's usually how we agree on a topic or an issue for an episode.

It's just a couple text messages Maybe a phone call real quick We'll nail it down after a few seconds and then that's my cue to go get to work for this upcoming episode episode 119 on Cultural denominationalism if you want to make a note, we're tentatively tentatively scheduling that release

For July 13th, Wednesday, July 13th. I went out and bought 12 books on denominationalism to study and prepare for this episode so Virgil's right we invest a lot of Not just time but a lot of our own resources

Financially to prepare for these episodes to to rightly divide the word of truth up against these topics

So I went on to order 12 books on Amazon what you're gonna hear me I'm done with my preparation for that episode, but Virgil is just now beginning his

I think I emailed Virgil like 15 pages That's what that email was you might want to open that email you might want to open that So yeah, so I emailed

Virgil 15 pages of notes on my end And From my side,

I'm quoting 17 different theologians in that episode just from the reading that I've done

So now Virgil's getting to work on on his end. And what happens is is when I send

Virgil my notes We both develop our content in manuscript form.

So every word you hear when you press play is written down It's in it's in manuscript form we have every single word written down and as I prepare my notes

I have Places within my commentary where Virgil will come in Okay, so when

I send him my notes, he sees what my thesis is He sees what my argument is and he sees where he needs to come in That's why you never hear us talking over one another because I've got designated spaces for him to come in now

We have moments where we ad -lib and kind of go off of our notes periodically, but for the most part all that stuff is structured

So when I send my notes To Virgil, Virgil knows okay now it's time for him to get to work

However much time he thinks he may need that we will build that time into the date that we're going to release the episode

So I just emailed me emailed my notes to him last week. I'm thinking Virg probably needs about three weeks to get ready

So we built that three weeks in I'll text Virg. I said, okay Virg for this three weeks that you may need

I think that puts us out Maybe we can record the episode on July 9th. What do you think the look at his calendar?

Boom? Okay, we're good All right. Got it. We set the record date. We set the record time. The release date is always the following Wednesday So we're gonna record this episode in July 9th

It's gonna be released on July 13th And and the cool thing about it is that when I send Virgil my notes, he sees what

I'm gonna say But he never sends me his notes He never says

I never know when we hit record on that scheduled date and time I never know what he's gonna say.

Yeah, never and there's a reason for that There's a reason for that There's a couple of dynamics that are happening when

I get his notes. He's got a very methodical thought -out process and And usually he already told you he's got 17 different quotes in the end, you know 17 different theologians alone that he's quoting in order to maintain some fluidity

I can't come back in with with 20 more quotes, right in order to maintain fluidity

I've got to think through where he's going and what I need to do to help you breathe when you hear that podcast

When you when he comes with a with a quote, that's you know a paragraph long I've got to think okay.

Do I need to help them process? what was just said are there points that were made that I need to reiterate or is

There a completely different direction that I need to take so that it can illuminate what's taking place and so while I didn't do this early on and I Was I kicked myself for not doing it when early on when we started

I would my he told you he's the writer I'm not the writer. I Would use bullet points, so I would bullet point my ideas and just kind of be very extemporaneous

Which was great and it helped the you know helped with the flow and continuity of our conversation the problem with it became when we started taking our

Transcripts and putting them into manuscript form for preparation for a book Right. So the first book they're like, where are your notes?

That's all their bullet points We can't I mean I was a bullet point gonna do for that, right? So we had to go back through in the manuscript thing

So so that that was that took a lot longer to get the first book out But the other piece of it is

I'll I try once I get his notes To think of a different direction that he's not seeing or thinking and for the most part

I try to operate in a pastoral framework Yeah, I'm the more prophetic voice of the two

So I'm always hitting the truth aspect Darrell is gonna get is gonna hit you with truth real hard in your face and I try to Think about it through a pastoral lens.

How can I not soften the truth? But but frame it in a way that that helps bring someone along for where we're going.

So he's got the application piece Yeah, okay, so I'm the doctrine guy. He's the application piece so you you hear that distinctly in our most recent episode on a biblical response to perfectionism where It's a three -hour biblical counseling session

So if you know anyone who's dealing with the sin of perfectionism in their life, you want to turn them on to that episode?

It's a three -hour biblical counseling session on perfectionism where I where you hear our distinct

Spiritual gifts. I'm more prophetic. This guy right here is more pastoral more application but we warn people at the top of that episode that this is not going to be a comfortable episode for you to listen to if You're dealing with that issue in your life because like any biblical counseling session, you're trying to identify what the heart issue is

Because perfectionism is no different There's a heart issue at play here that you need to identify and deal with so we walk you through that But you hear our distinct voices as you as you listen last thing

I'll say about this and then we'll get back to more of the questions is There's a if you're thinking about podcasts or doing a podcast

And or listening to us and kind of are thinking about what's the secret sauce? I don't know that there is any I will simply say

He I've always thought of our partnership and Daryl's been gracious Darryl Darryl has never

Darryl has never said well you you only get so much time or I got to make sure there's no that That never happens

Darryl is when we turn the microphones on he can't wait to hear what I'm gonna say and I know what he's gonna say

But I can't wait to hear him deliver What he's going to say and so there's still that mutual Just kind of effervescent kind of joy to to hear in two brothers talk about things

But in my mind just so that you know I try to think whatever he's delivered I need to be about 40 % of that so I'm thinking when

I'm preparing 6040 60 % of his voice needs to be heard 40 % of mine needs to be heard as a co -host some people do 80 20 some people do 90 10

I try to balance it about in that that range so if I see he's you know Sometimes I'll do a word count if I'm gonna manuscript.

I'll do a word count. I'll see okay in that section He had a thousand words, okay, whatever I say needs to come in at 600

So I've literally done that at times to just make sure that that there's a balance of a match

That's probably way more than you ever want to know about that, but all right We don't have three hours to get through the rest.

Sorry brother Boys need to pick up the pace. I'm sorry here we go Why do you think the

New Testament does not directly address slavery as a sin it does address it? It does address it

It directly addresses it Bird you may be better to respond to this question than me, but I think the question gets into the area of You know

Bible study methods. How do you go about Bible study in the Bible? How do you go about? the process of hermeneutics

How do you deal with exegesis exposition and things of that nature because fundamentally I think that's what that's what the question gets to the

Bible does Directly address slavery and it addresses it as a sin issue so the question

The question needs to be reframed Because the issue isn't slavery the issue is the sin that leads to slavery that led to slavery

So you you have to root cause what you're what you're what you're dealing with in that question is the the fruit of the root

You need to deal with the root. Yeah You need to deal with the root the

Bible from cover to cover Directly addresses slavery now because you don't see in Exodus 20 thou shalt not commit slavery

That doesn't mean the Bible doesn't address it the Bible does address it It's a sin issue and the

Bible does anything nothing else it addresses the sin in our heart I I tried to address that in the message that I just gave in that section where you know talking about Jupiter Hammond talking about Quoting from David Eltis in the

Atlas of the transatlantic slave trade share my own ancestral Realities with with slaves and slavery, but yeah the

New Testament does address directly Slavery because it addresses the sin issue that resulted in That sin and and I think

Virgil. I think it was you who said at some point today Slavery has been a global issue for thousands of years

It's going on right now as we sit here, so slavery has not been Eliminated throughout the world, but the

New Testament does address and so does the Old Testament by the way I think

Our culture is so reactionary. We're so emotional We're so sentimental where when we hear words like slavery we automatically default to an

Uncle Tom situation Well, we think of somebody being whipped or beating or beaten or abused and there definitely was that But the thing about scripture when it comes to slavery when you look at it the

Bible doesn't outlaw slavery It doesn't prohibit it what it prohibits is the maltreatment yes of your slaves

Historically Slavery was I don't care if you want to call it slavery or servitude whatever word you want to use in many cases

Those situations were the only opportunities for many men and women and children to maintain a

Standard of living so that they can remain alive They weren't employable in certain occupations or jobs or things like that because they weren't skilled

Those cases were rare, but we've got a we've got to remove ourselves from these

Default reactionary responses to where when we hear the word slavery we think only on the worst -case scenarios

Not also a matter of fact most slavery was not that So the

Bible addresses the maltreatment Of your slaves because even slaves were image bearers of God so You know that question is a very

It's a very important question, but the question itself needs to be exegetic a little bit to get the context

I would add a couple of things to that quick And I'm trying to make sure I watch for time two things one is the

Old Testament actually does Deal with it directly from a standpoint of man stealing right you have that kind of KJV language

Exodus 20 It's it really forbids the stealing it and and what you're talking about with with chattel slavery particularly here in the

United States And what that looked like that were those people who went into a land stole a man brought him here put him in chains

And enslaved him the issue of slavery and in the Old Testament when you see culturally speaking people sold themselves in indentured servitude in the

Old Testament a very natural part of of the culture of the time so We have only one view of Slavery, and that's what blacks experienced here in the

United States of America You also have first Timothy 1 10 that were

Paul and writing to Timothy actually Calls slave traders immoral these same slave traders would be the ones that are kind of looked at in the

Old Testament as man Stealers so the text does address The nature of what we would talk about here in America as as chattel slavery

The matter in which it was it was encountered But the but the point of Scripture wasn't to clear up slavery the point of Scripture was a story about about a sovereign

God who would send his son to redeem mankind and and save us from the from the true

Slavery that would lead to eternal death in hell and so as a result of that that message is the message

That's focused upon and and with the hope that people's hearts will be transformed by the power of that gospel And they would engage in things that dehumanize other image bearers of God finally

I'll say this you've got the the book of Philemon or the story of rather Philemon who was a slave leaves and Paul tells him to go back and tells the

Slave and the slave master how to how to engage one another so you have Christianity being the first of a worldview that tells slave and slave owner that they are brothers in Christ I need to treat one another in that manner, so there's all kinds of things that you can look at from the text

I think that the point that Daryl is making is it takes someone responsibly exegeting the text

Unpacking it for the clarity of truth. That's there in so I hope that helps Yeah Okay Now as we see more and more men whom are once trusted we're talking about this more in just a moment

Begin to sort of go off the beam head in a trajectory This makes us uncomfortable if a pastor or author that you have read and heard turns to embrace an unbiblical idea at what point you

Abandon any helpful materials that they have produced man because we got guys that produce good materials Sometimes volumes produced by ministries and now they're wavering on some of these issues embracing it

Yeah, what point do we just walk away from it and and turn a nose up? Yeah, I think I think there

I think That's a challenging question because I think there are categories for these kinds of things right and again

I I don't want to I I'm gonna share with you kind of how I view this but I wouldn't prescribe this as hey

Here's what I do follow me right because there's there's still Aspects of this that I'm working out that a similar question that that Daryl and I were asking as we watch the whole woke thing

Unfold is when do we begin calling these people these these men who have been when we begin calling them unbelievers?

Right when they're preaching a different gospel there. They're advocating ideas that are anti -biblical and they're embracing a worldview that that doesn't match what scriptures talk when do we when do we finally challenge it and say they're

Unbelievers and so that's what Galatians is all about. I Think I think that's I think that's challenging

So the way I kind of view that I I'll give you an example of what I what what

I demonstrated here Okay Today when I gave my talk I quoted who dr.

Martin Luther King, right? Trusted hero and and really an iconic figure, but I I said we should we should have problems with this theology, right?

Because it was off it was wrong I even went so far as to say I don't believe that Martin Luther King was that was a

Christian But under the umbrella of common grace whether believer or not believer you can speak truth about about an issue a

Situation circumstance you can speak that truth and we can advocate that truth as something that it coincides with the biblical worldview while While identifying the wrongness of that man

I think I would in light of a of a believer a man that we've trusted I would do the same kind of thing

I would say listen, here's someone who who has maybe some good material I at this at the point at which they've gone off the rail.

I don't Promote their works. I would not promote you would not see me advocate.

Hey, go go buy this Hey, go go go for the purpose of your own our own souls protection.

I would not advocate doing that I would simply say that that you know This person has written some good material if you came to me and asked me and that's usually the how this happens this is not a

I'm on a Facebook page or a or alive and I'm telling you about Let's just call it out

I'm not telling you about nine marks of a healthy church on a on a on a on a Facebook post or in some space and Place because I know what whatever now where he is what he stands for what what he's promoting in the way of of a

Gospel that's that that that's tainted right and by that what I mean is simply the the the woke ism

That's invaded things at Capitol Hill What he's allowed to take place in that space and I've got the quotes and can do all of that But I just I personally would not promote that work in an open space

I would not now someone would come to me with the book and say is this a good book? Should I be reading this?

I would say listen, you're free to read what you want. However Here's where this man is in error

Here's where some things are wrong and you need to be aware of that know that for your own souls

Safety, so that would be the manner in which I would I would operate that again. I wouldn't I wouldn't prescribe that I'm just telling you how

I navigate that very challenging and difficult issue. Yeah, I will just add I'm sorry

But when you brought dr. King that this occurred to me any of you who are interested in reading and studying dr.

King's Theological worldview or his worldview in general you can do a Google search just just search

Martin Luther King jr. Stanford University Stanford University has a partnership with the

King Center in Atlanta where you have many of dr. King's papers online at Stanford University website

Many of his papers going all the way back to when he was in seminary at Crozer theological seminary back in the 40s

So you can read a lot of his own words a lot of his writings while he was in seminary where you get a clear

Picture of what his theological worldview is and when you read those depending how thoroughly you want to read them

You come to the understanding that Christian was sorry King was not a biblical Regenerate Christian.

He was more of a moralist. He was more of a humanist He was more of a globalist because he partnered it was more of an ecumenicist.

He partnered with Hindus Buddhists Middle -eastern religionists

To he was a matter of fact in his sermon titled, I'm sorry a paper he wrote a seminary titled preaching

Mission, he said and I'm quoting I am a staunch advocate of the social gospel unquote

So King was a so he was a social gospel conformist. He was more of a moralist humanist than a

Biblical he named Walter Rauschenbush is one of his largest influence, right if that would tell you anything

All right, how do you decide whether to engage in debate and confrontation on social media and at what point do you cease from debating?

I don't debate people in social media I simply put what I what

I'm thinking or an idea that I have I push it forward and call it a day now What I may do for fun

Is I may engage somebody who's you know being a knucklehead or I've got 15 minutes to waste this will be fun

But but it's it's it's never for the purpose and and here's and let me say this I Will never be disrespectful to someone to the degree that I've called them a name or pejorative or something like that But I but I will make fun of what they've said or or something that that they shared.

That's an idea I will I will expose that for its foolishness for its folly I will do that, but but I usually don't resort to name -calling.

That's kind of that's kind of childish behavior I do think there's a there's a there's a there's a way to have to operate from a standpoint of social media etiquette

That I think as believers we should all demonstrate now Am I perfect at it? Absolutely not and if you ever and if you ever see me demonstrating it in such a way that that's not the case

Feel free to check me call me on it and and I'll do my best to make that right

But that's kind of my my ammo with social media As well

You might your battery might be shot is that it battery shot

Yeah And I'll award you from anywhere between one and five clowns

You know for the absolutely incredibly astoundingly absurd you get five clowns

If it's only you know, minimally absurd So that's what

I'll do I'll just quote you quote tweet you and I'll drop a series of clowns and I've done that People know people get it

Debate All Right as a

Christian author, I want to promote biblical truth and combat wokeness. I'm concerned about cancel culture being silenced

I'm concerned about cancer culture and being silenced sure and doing that Do you have any advice or encouragement for Christians facing cancel culture?

Yeah, we I mean we're trying to think through those pieces of the puzzle it at g3. We have a YouTube page

We've got a lot of content that I just uploaded on there we've got all of our archive material that that that's been sitting in different spaces that now has gotten there and we're

I mean, we're concerned that the None of what we do is a shying away of truth, right of whether it's biblical sexuality or woke ism or anything and you know, so we have the concern of of You know what happens if we've got this stuff on the

YouTube page and all of a sudden it's gone And so we just our thought process is just doubling our efforts in spaces and places so that we never lose the material

But we anticipate my thought would be expect that to take place I mean you should expect to be canceled at some point you should expect to be

You should expect the persecution that scripture says that you're going to endure for for living a life

That that's it You know that that chooses to honor God and so with that said I just would would make sure that I did whatever it

Whatever it took to have duplicates triplicates of what you need where you need it so that people can access it

And the more you can get off of those kinds of platforms and at least have your own You know your own resource, for example

I think it'd be wise for you to have your own app with all of your materials on it accessible

So I mean that's what gty does that's what g3 does we we have our own own application now that that's not going to stop

Google from shutting you down as can be the case But but your hope is to try to navigate what you can

Staying connected with those who want to connect with you in a way that that's that's helpful But you cannot operate from a standpoint of fear.

You really cannot you've got to go forward preach the truth Tell the truth and and believe God for the rest.

So yeah, I really agree with that practical counsel diverse matter of fact I'm reading Matthew 5

I would just encourage that person to number one Guard your mind and heart against what

Virgil just said guard your mind and heart against falling into an attitude in the mindset of fear Anxiety guard your mind and heart against that.

I would encourage you to go back and listen to our podcast episode this title Why are you afraid? Yes, I'll go back and look at that That's the episode upon which the book is is based

But I would encourage you to go to Matthew 5 and read what Jesus read the words of Jesus Especially the latter part of verse 12 where Jesus says when you are persecuted and insulted

Rejoice That's the attitude you should have Rejoice and be glad For your reward in heaven is great for in the same way

They persecuted the prophets who were before you and I also would encourage you to go look at Philippians chapter 1 verse 29

Where it says for to you it has been granted for Christ's sake not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for his sake

So if you're in that situation, don't be concerned. Don't be anxious rejoice Be glad be happy that the grace of Christ has shone upon you to where in his providence and in his sovereignty he has chosen providentially to Permit this situation

To come to fruition in your life and you should rejoice in that All right I have a black friend who has adopted many tenants of CRT and I want to help lead him to a biblical position any

Advisor counsel for how I can help him. No I'm only half kidding.

Um, I Know I don't that's a difficult question to answer

I don't know all the dynamics of the situation and there's no one one answer fits all

Scenario that I can give you there's not one thing that's gonna work with every black person so that now you have the the black person answer that you can go and Take care of the black person

I don't I don't I don't have that I would like personal or black person alert. Yeah, I Would need a lot more information to to to deal that I would simply in a general sense

You know tell you that that all of that is about relationship. You know, how are you?

How are you interacting? What are you? What are you saying? What are those conversations look like one of the one of the keys that I tried to give you well

What I had an opportunity to speak is the more that you can engage in those kinds of conversations devoid of emotion

The better off you are that that's a better position that's a better circumstance from which to operate if you're operating from a standpoint of you you can't wait to jump in and Nobody's gonna want to deal with you right if that or You're not that way and they start talking you feel yourself just going

Just stop Just stop figure something else out because you're not ready for that conversation.

I will tell you Being here is important being in spaces like this is important Why because you're getting information that you wouldn't have otherwise and that information is always helpful.

I think more information Helps you to calm down. I when I when I would teach apologetics classes,

I would tell people That would that would have the tendency to get riled up in situations

I said listen, have you ever argued about the fact that that two and two is four? I Mean have you ever gotten to a heated debate?

Well, no Well, why because you you know that two and two is four now again I know that there's a whole world of crazy critical thinking right now that's saying two and two is five

Right, but no one's gonna get wound up about that debate. Why because you know the truth What I'm trying to get you to understand is the more truth you have and know

The calmer you can be because it's not about you It's about a defense of the truth.

And so you can operate from that vantage point That's probably more than more to that than Yeah, I'll just say

Virgil really just kind of hit on my counsel to you would just to be to be careful what your motives Are I thought the key word in the question was help if you truly want to help the individual thing

You'll take yourself and your bias out of it. Take your position out of it. If you really want to help the person Make sure that the manner in which you approach them to help them

Is rooted in pure motives rooted in godly motives. You're not trying to win an argument You're trying to win a debate what you're trying to do is present them with the truth of the gospel and And then what you do is just do that stick to that and then trust

God to work His word in the heart and mind of that person if he so chooses But you need to take yourself out of the situation

Be as objective as possible and make sure your motors are right and wanting to help the person and then you're not in the position of You know fidgety and going all emotionally

Berserk in that situation. You've removed yourself from it. What's at stake? Here's the truth of the gospel you help them you share with them as much as possible, but do it objectively

But with a pure motive and intention now, I'll let you answer this one because it's more kind of your people, okay

Next SBC president Askell or Barbara Askell If he wins Well, some of the churches that have left the

SBC come back No for clarity the church that you are part of has left the F SBC, right? Praise no bad.

Yes, praise no bad. This is no longer praising. No Baptist. No, you're praising. No church. No, praise. No Baptist Oh, we we can you be a

Baptist church and I'll be not because we we were we were We were Baptist before the

SBC was that's how that works. Our church is older. They should be joining you.

Thank you Thank you, the praiseful

Baptist Church was was was a Put in place or was in place as a church

I want to say at least four or five years before the SBC actually formed itself and so We're good

If you're interested in why dr. Josh Bice has written an article that you can go to g3 men dot org and he

Articulates his thought process very well. In fact, Justin Peters had him on his his

Podcast and he did a fantastic job of a asking the right kinds of questions and unpacking that So if you're interested in why the church and what the process looked like for the church to leave the

SBC You can you can see what that is. But but again, we've got friends who are still connected

You know, I was a pastor an associate pastor at a church. That was SBC There are good people who are still in the

SBC. I wish the SBC. Well, there's no ill feelings or harm that we wish them I do hope that that Tom Askew is the next president, but even if he is the next president the the

Sentimentalism and pragmatism which we'll talk about some tomorrow that is infected the

SBC will take ten years at least to bring it back to You know to back to par right back to zero and then it will take another ten years

To push it into a reformed idea about worship where where scripture is sufficient to inform all that we do in every facet of worship in life and so And and and Tom is very aware this isn't a hey

I won It's over y 'all come back It's it's a it's a process right?

The conservative resurgence took 25 years to unfold and people who were there over for a lengthy period of time making sure that that every every

Committee member was placed in the right positions so that the conservatives could win This is not a one -and -done situation with the

SBC. So it'll be a part of a process I wish Tom nothing but the best we're both

Darrell and I have our book was printed with Founders Press Which which is over which is which

Tom Askew is over. We have a great relationship with them We'll continue to have that I think

I've texted Tom or sent something out or tweeted him or something today And just to encourage him as he's going through the process.

We pray for him We pray for for things to change and turn around in the SBC, but it's a long process and no question is

It yes or no short short short answer. Yes or no is the SBC beyond repair?

Oh, wow It's more than a yes or no. I mean, no, no, it's a yes or no question I mean it either is or it isn't if it isn't there's no need to explain it.

There is it's self -evident Yes, or no. Is it beyond repair? I Here's what

I would say to that and in this public setting I would say that For me and the in the role that I played in that space and what

I've what I've experienced and seen in that space I don't believe I'm qualified to make a

Judgment like that. Are you qualified? I'm not qualified, but my answer is yes Let's be on repair

Let's be on repair I Just I I'm maybe maybe here's where here's where I come from.

I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful. I don't want to see it I don't want the answer to be yes.

No, I don't I don't want the answer. I don't want the answer No, I don't think anybody does want the answer. Yeah, I don't want to answer. Yes, but if it's yes, no question

I'm answering yes We lived in Georgia for six years and struggled with Sunday being the most segregated day of the week

What effective biblical responses have you seen to unifying the white black Hispanic etc church within the same city two things one the gospel two is the idea that that The idea that posited this quote we did an entire episode on this quote alone

When we were at g3 and that and that if you want to hear the lengthy hour -long version

It's called woke church and then we we circled back and did and did woke church part two so if you want to go hear those here a lengthy answer to that question you can simply just say that that The quote comes from dr.

Martin Luther King And and the quote in and of itself is is not an accurate assessment of what's actually taking place in the church 12 o 'clock is not the most segregated hour

Right and not from a standpoint of you not being able to go and experience church wherever you there's no church that I can't walk into as a black man

When you're talking about segregation You're talking about a law that requires me to stay on a side of a street

To drink from a specific fountain to do some specific things now if people are choosing

To go where they're located in a particular city to a specific church.

That's a choice you're making Segregation is something that was enforced So the idea that it's the most segregated hour, that's a nice little quote to that that King popularized

But it's it's not an accurate assessment of where we are today. That's a the idea behind that is a Reproblematizing you've heard us use that word.

It's a reproblematizing of something that took place historically speaking as If it's the same way today, and that's absolutely not the case now the other aspect of the question, which is

You know, what do we do to fix the the segregation again?

My premise would be People are choosing to go where they go based upon what they desire to do

They're not forced to do so they're free to I was free to walk into this church I had no inhibitions about doing that there was no sign on the wall that kept that from taking place

So I go where I want to and if someone is staying at an all -black church is because that's what they choose to do

It's not because it's not because that's the only place that they can go They can go wherever they choose to go

So I the the nature of the question I think it needs to be needs to be looked at from a standpoint of how it's framed and because it

Based upon how it's framed it then posits the next idea, which is this is a problem, right?

No, what can we do to fix it and my argument there would be there's nothing for you to fix The church is not yours

It's Christ So what you and I are to do is we're to go and be obedient to what the Word says which is to go and preach the gospel to all men and As they as the gospel is preached

Hearts will be transformed and the power that gospel would draw them into a church And if you're the one that shared the gospel with them guess where they're probably going to go

They're probably going to go to church with you. And so that'll be the opportunity. What do we do?

We preach because this is this is the kind of thinking that if we're not careful Lends itself to the idea that a the gospel isn't enough

And be I've got to do something more and and and those those those kinds of things are things We need to we need to we need to we need to push back against and really open the scripture and think about it

So yeah, I'm thinking about the episode we did on the leave loud movement with Jamar Tisby. Yes, who's

Spearheading that movement where he's urging Black evangelicals to leave

Predominantly white churches if that's where they are to leave loud to protest on your way out We did an entire episode on that issue.

We titled it activist theology So I would encourage you to go back and listen to the episode this title activist theology

Personally one of my favorite episodes that we've done. Well, we kind of walk you through Why that whole leave loud movement is unbiblical but I think the question presupposes

It's presuppositional it's presuppositional on his face The presupposition is that in order for a biblical local church to be truly biblical

It must like we said this morning. It must represent multicolored. It must be multicolored and Virgil just nailed it the church is

Church doesn't belong to you God every truly every true believer in Christ is by faith automatically a part of the

Universal Church Automatically a part of it So what right do we have at the local church level to put these stipulations on?

something that Christ doesn't apply to his Universal Church you become a member of the church by faith and that occurs monogistically by God alone first Corinthians 130 says that by his doing that is by God's doing you are in Christ Jesus by His doing so who am

I to say well your church at the local level needs to look like this see there's a difference between having a multicolored or multi -ethnic church and having a multicolored

Multi -ethnic congregation. Mm -hmm. That's good. We're in a church right now

Multiple ethnicities represented But unless these multiple ethnicities are believers, right?

You don't have a multi -ethnic church. Yep The church by definition is comprised of believers not attenders

So that's the distinction that we have to make and to whomever

God wants to bring into his church He's gonna bring them. Absolutely. If you recognize at the end of the at the end of my talk

I read from was Revelation 7 9 following this idea of many nations many ethnicities

That's the work of Christ that's that's the work of God the Father Son and Holy Spirit All you have to do is go do what you were commissioned to do which is to go and preach the gospel be faithful to the preaching of the gospel and and all of that Color stuff takes care of itself in the end

I could take you to some churches on the west side of Atlanta where I grew up. They're predominantly black churches. They're all black

They're all black But this question whenever it is raised you touched on this earlier version It's like the onus is always on the white church to become more dark

It's never on the dark church to become more white, right, you know and in the area where I grew up over there 303 14 zip code.

You're not gonna find Caucasians living over there. No Hispanics live over there. No Asians live there

You know So this whole idea Listen, let me just say this With all due respect to how

God used dr. Martin Luther King when he did and I get that But dr.

King's his worldview was just wrong He throws out this statement like this from a speech that he gave

And here we are six decades later still talking about still talking about needing to reproblem a time He didn't need to read from day.

I mean, come on, really? I mean, so so the With all due respect to the questioner who lived in Georgia for six years.

I lived in Georgia for all my life With the risk with the exception of the past three years. I know that state like the back of my hand

I know that city city of Atlanta where I grew up like the back of my hand Churches are not segregated because if to say that a church is segregated presupposes a

Standard or a benchmark that Christ doesn't apply. That's good to his church

So we need to get rid of this course. We just need to stop asking it with all due respect All right.

This is the last one from the audience We had a couple others, but I'll save those because I'm gonna wrap them up with some other questions here in a moment Okay, could you please help my pastor and teach him how to tie a bowtie?

I got I got you it would strongly complement his fedora that his wife loves

Yeah, we could both do that by the way these these ties are the ones you have to tie yeah These are tight eyes. We don't do clip -ons

All right What do black people experience that white folk don't know about or understand are white people blind to racism?

I don't I don't know what black people I don't have I have no idea if you find out come come tell me

So are you profiled? Can you go for a walk without an ID? Did you have to teach your kids how to respond when an officer pulls them over?

Are you traded treated differently on the basis of your color? Are you pulled over for driving while black?

Are you expected to vote a certain way is voter ID racist? Are you too incompetent to get voter

ID? I? Have no idea I To every single one of those

I have no idea how to how to respond to any of that because any any issue that I run into related to that I've never experienced through the lens of the color of my skin

None of it ever so I mean I Even even if someone came to me and and said something

Blatantly what we would all identify as racist. I would attribute that to their stupid

Not not to anything related it says more about you Than it ever says about me

So it's not even a conversation like I'm not even gonna spend the time entertaining what was what the motivation was

It was stupid and that's about as much time as I have for that. Yes, that's a five clowner right there.

I mean We want Twitter right now that would get five clowns. Yeah So you can go for a walk without ID I Mean I pulled over for that reason.

I've been pulled over. I have been pulled over How'd it work out

I'm here, right? Yeah. Yeah, so it worked out. Do you want me to tell the story? Yeah. All right.

I Was I was I was telling pastor Jim a story right I gotta say this man, can you like give us the the snippet?

Yeah, yeah He wants me to get a snippet. Okay, let me give a snippet. I I uh,

I got pulled over By an officer I was headed out driving too fast past the stop sign didn't stop all the way

I The lights blow up, right? so Apparently, I mean

I wasn't I wasn't afraid Obviously because I had I had my cell phone and I literally the cop is behind me and I literally in the car

I took a picture and the picture I could show it to you if you want to see it It's of my face and the lights behind me.

I took the picture because I thought dang it. This is gonna be funny That's the real reason I took the picture took the picture and I put it down and then he comes up We do all the stuff and you know, you blew through the stop sign.

I was like, I know I'm headed to such -and -such he's like, all right, let me get your license that I feels out the thing comes back and I took the ticket from him and I said listen, this is what this is 2020.

I said listen with the you know, all the verdicts and all this stuff happening now officers are getting a bad rap and And we just had an exchange black guy white cop, you know, this is this is the narrative

I said so once you do me once you do me a solid and let's take a picture together

There was absolutely no fear I just thought this would be cool I took a snapshot of he and I and Him give me the ticket took a picture and I took that picture and I did a side -by -side of a the police officer

Car behind me and be me and the police officer and I'd written something up on social media

Thinking this is probably gonna go nowhere. My friends will get a laugh at me and that'll be it Well, this thing blows up about 80 ,000 likes and shares and it goes all over the country

In fact, I found out later from the officer that there were police Stations around the country that reached out to him and just said hey great job

You know because I basically because I had said in the piece I said, you know I didn't fear from my life all the stuff that you named

I didn't fear from my life I wasn't afraid I I knew I'd done wrong. I knew that all of that stuff and The exchange was respectful, but I did get the ticket, you know, and so I was trying to make joke of it

Well needless to say the news media in this in Omaha heard about it and they actually called me and said hey

We want to put you and that officer together and do a news story So they did they did a news story

I went down and saw the guy and we were you know, he hugged me He's like man, thank you for the positive feedback and you know all these officers

I was like, man, that's great. But then I still had to pay for the ticket Birds what I want to know is how much was a ticket it was about a hundred bucks

Yeah, I paid it though. Yeah, I was in the wrong. Yeah To what extent is your experience in America contingent on the color of your skin?

I have no idea That depends on the individual I have no I like I have no I don't there's there's not like, okay,

I'll be right back You know, I'm keeping record. Let me look. Let me check my records. I That's not

I don't I Don't have that like I don't like I don't

I have no answer for that Was that I don't even know that funny. I'm your life wasn't better when you were a white man, right?

Yes, so you have no bar by which to know no I didn't

I didn't I've been black my whole life I don't Check my records of how this has been how this has been going.

I'll be right back All right on February 27th, it was racial reconciliation

Sunday, yeah, we all reconciled did y 'all know that on a We're all reconciled y 'all know the

SPC reconciled us all on that day He read the nomination did the nomination did looking there.

Wave that magic wand. Y 'all are reconciled. I Saw that and I could not believe that they were doing that.

It was racial reconciliation. So let me finish the class. Sorry This is gonna come as a shock to most people but I saw both of you post negative

Twitter comments on that subject What's the issue with that? Are you opposed to racial reconciliation?

I am actually. Yes. I am. I am opposed It's nonsense we both subscribed at the idea that races don't reconcile hearts do in fact

Darrell coined that and then I I took it a step further when not when we were in being interviewed by alley

Beth Stuckey and Just and gave the example of okay. Let's say that this is a real thing, right? Who is the black representative?

That's gonna represent all black people and then who's y 'all's white representative that you're gonna send to reconcile on behalf of all white people

What are gonna be the terms of the reconciliation and how will it be reported to us all that?

We've now been fully reconciled. You see how silly this all is. Mm -hmm at the end of the day reconcile from what?

Absolutely reconcile from what so this whole idea of racial reconciliation I think I made that clear my position on the message that I just gave the whole idea of racial reconciliation

It's totally nonsensical. So for instance, let's pretend today is rest racial record reconciliation

Friday What are we what are Jim and I being reconciled over yeah, that could be an issue but We don't need to be reconciled over that so the point

I'm trying to make is this the whole idea of reconciliation reconciliation presupposes that there is an objective issue of Reconciliation that needs to be resolved

What records what the idea of racial reconciliation bids you do First above everything else is to acknowledge who this person is based on the color of their skin

That's what the racial and racial recognition Reconciliation forces you to do

That's a problem at the heart of it. Exactly, right So white people go find a black person reconcile with them

Black people go find a white person and reconcile with them just because they're white It makes no sense.

It's just the dumbest thing and my hope is that I hope everywhere We go to debunk this to the degree that every time you see it you laugh.

It's five clowns Every time you see it you just throw All right, this is the last one for tonight and then we got some more tech tackle tomorrow

What is happening in our seminaries in our churches in our denominations? We used to have

Coalitions around the gospel people used to get together for the gospel and now some of these people who have gotten together for the gospel and coalesce coalesced around the gospel right are

Embracing some of the very things that you guys are here criticizing and taking issue with and That is not how it should be and that's not how it was even ten years ago, right?

So there is a drift taking place, right? Would we call it an apostasy? What's happening in what's happening?

What's going on on the large scale? Well, I think they were I think I think they were captured those organizations you mentioned Were captured in this wave

With with regard to woke ism and they went there and and really it caused it caused the downfall of one in the teetering of the other

The issue really now is what's happening what what's happening in there

What they're doing to rebrand themselves Right. So so what what what TGC is doing to rebrand itself is they're trying to find this middle ground

So they'll do a video now where you've got both sides someone who's a proponent of CRT Someone who's antagonistic against CRT and they'll be they'll be kind of going at it in a debate

Right, you see this this format where where they get all of their issues out and they get all their issues out and then they Sit down and talk and it's not really a debate

In fact, if you watch the the quote -unquote debate It's a man who steps up who who's supposed to be standing against you see that won't ask a

Daryl Harrison to come debate They won't ask a Virgil Walker a Bodhi Bachum to come and have these kinds of conversations and set it up in the real debate

Format they won't ask a James White Who can handle himself in that space to come and debate these issues because that's not really what they're after what they're now after in these arenas are for for you to be that they're really wanting to be tone police and So now the issue is thou shalt be nice Right.

It's it's never it's never about what's right and wrong about the issues of the subject matters Oh, you've you had some good points and you said it in a in a nice way

And oh, you had some good points and you said it in a nice way now What would you say to the people who are on your side that they could do better to be nice?

And that's the conversation that's now being had so it's this kind of third wave niceness

That's that's supposed to permeate all of what we say rather than saying no There's some real distinctions here that need to be talked about even passionately if need be in an effort to examine what

Scripture has to say about these and either we need to accept one and reject the other or accept the other and reject the one

But we're going to stand for something Regardless, and that's not what's actually happening as a rebranding

That's actually taking place that you're gonna see happen that they recognize what wokeness will leave you broke

They recognize that so now the next step in the phase is a rebranding of things

It's kind of the the idea. Hey, we went we went too far here We went too far. Here's the middle ground that we can find ourselves in and and and proceed forward

There's a lot of there's a lot of Terminologies and jargon around that I won't I won't bore you with all of that this evening

But but just know that that's what's happening. And that's what you're gonna be seeing So but yeah to that note just real quick to Virgil's point

I would encourage you to go back and listen to our episode title a nuanced gospel Because this is what had what Virgil's just described is the integration of nuance as the new

Hermeneutic nuance then the irony is that anything nothing that's nuanced Can be hermeneuticized if that's a word, but that's what they're trying to do

They're trying to do use nuance as a play on a way to offer a more palatable hermeneutic so as to make the gospel less offensive make standing for truth less offensive under the guise of What I call the 11th commandment that thou shalt be nice So check out our episode a nuanced gospel.

So in all of the gospel coalition events That they have and all of the together for the gospel events that they have combined

How many times have you guys been asked to come speak? Zero, and again,

I I don't know at this point because of what they stand for that. I would take an invitation From them.

It would be I would I would question why I was there to be honest with you I've gotten down down or I seek a platform

We've never been one to seek a platform trying to get somewhere or beast. I mean, that's not how we

Operate we're grateful for any opportunity that we have and we try to deliver Something that's beneficial for all those who are who are listening.

So we're not chasing anyone's platform At the end of the day, we just we want to do what we talked about which is just stand for truth

We want to be about that and if you hear us and believe that what we bring is going to be of value then then

There's mutual benefit in that and if not, we're fine with that We don't we're not when neither of us are losing sleep because we haven't received an invitation from them

But I do recognize who they do platform and what they do platform and that gives me all the information

I need to know exactly where they're going. Yep. Yep All right, one last thing

Oh What is he up to I'm afraid of what's gonna jump out of it

It's five clowns five little clowns Oh, that's good, would you please open that up for us?

I Don't know if I want to open this thing. It's not that I don't trust you Jim I Watch black lives matter.

Oh, that's a noose If you call it a noose we can have 15

FBI agents here tomorrow right investigate it, right, right Dude somebody somebody went in on what they were doing

Wow, that's impressive Hey go back to the hotel with glitter all over Well, at least your wife's here so she knows what's you know, yes, you know,

I wasn't at the club She know

I wasn't in downtown Kootenai Man you don't need a knife for that.

I know y 'all said man. Hurry up with this Keep it keeping them in suspense.

I'm gonna need a knife for this name. I got all these all the hunter. Oh Don't ask for a gun

Everybody's room would've got Yeah, don't don't come mess with nobody here don't be messing these people up in Idaho man

They are prepared play right here. They are prepared man Amazon No, y 'all didn't

No, y 'all No, y 'all didn't. Oh my gosh You know what?

They've done. You know what they've gone and done And you guys gonna make me tear up up here.

Oh I finally got my

Look at that. Look at that. Did you did you know about this? You didn't know about it was it was our little attempt at racial

Once you said it's out we're records out once you said that once you said it was my fault that you didn't have one

That was not my idea, but thank you all thank you guys

This is awesome. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are done for tonight So you are free to leave whatever you want here.

Please take any valuables that you have weapons that you have home with you But anything else you can leave on the tables for tomorrow and doors will open at 8 a .m

We will have food out coffee again and session starts at 845 tomorrow morning.