Becoming Better Theologians: Godhead Quiz (part 2 )

Father in heaven, you are a great God worthy of all praise Lord. We come before you this morning just as a people who are in need of Your comfort your mercy your grace

Lord. We just pray that as we meet here this morning that you would enliven us that you would awaken us that you would

Refresh us by your word by the truths that are contained therein about you father

I pray that you'd bless our time this morning in Christ's name. We pray. Amen Well, we started the last week on this quiz and I you know

Sometimes I just like to break up things a little bit with a quiz. And so we started doing this quiz on the

Godhead and then I created another one too because it just kind of gives me a convenient format when I Read the text sometimes and I go

I don't know how interesting this is So we'll just use a quiz so that we can kind of divert your attention

Sorry Okay, so we started we did the Godhead quiz and I won't review all of it

The questions were pretty easy I'll start to maybe quickly reviewing at number 11

True or false One of God's attributes is that he is living. No one should get that wrong

Let me just say that if you if you put false, that's it is an attribute I mean, it's obvious that he's living and yes, that is an attribute

We'd know that from exodus 314 and other places I might have mentioned this last week, but the idea when

God says I am that I am That is called his a seiya his self -existence

When who knows what the old or what the New Testament reference is for that exodus 314 This is one every evangelist which means every person in this room should know it's

I'll give you a hint It's in the book of John. No Bruce that's my second answer.

That's same as that one and No, yeah, great minds think alike and they're wrong

John Exodus 314 what is exodus 314 say this will give it away.

Let's go to exodus 314 since nobody seems to Have that memorized anybody have

Deuteronomy 8 to 46 memories I'm just not randomly calling out exodus 314

Bruce when you have that, would you read that for us the wonders of technology?

Okay, and that was the room response to what question right

Moses says, you know, I really like to go but who shall I say sent me Right, and he says

I am that I am you know that that's all they need to know So now that we've read that What verse in John Quotes that verse or as a reference to that verse

John 8 58 is correct And why do I say that you should know that if you're an evangelist which everyone in this room is an evangelist

Why should you know that it shows the deity of Christ?

How do we know that it shows the deity of Christ? He says the same thing that God said to Moses.

Let's go to John 8 58 Well, we know that we know it for another reason I remember

I Think I've mentioned this before obviously I did work in a jail Which was a lot of fun.

Don't get me wrong one one particular evening I had a trustee who was mopping the deck and and Some of the guys told me that he was

Muslim that he'd converted to Islam and I knew that his release date was coming up and and I said to him

I said, so what are you gonna do when you get out? And he proceeded to tell me that he was going to go out and Sin to clean that up quite nicely

And so we got into a conversation about sin and about forgiveness of sin and and He said to me he said well, you know

Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God and I said that's not correct.

And so we went to John 8 58 because I had my Bible there like any good seminary students

And I'll read that and he says Jesus said to them Truly truly I say to you before Abraham was

I am And he goes well, you know What does that mean? And so I explained

Exodus 314 everything like that. I said, but here's the more important thing So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple

Why is that more important not even that he quoted

Exodus 314, but they picked up stones to throw at him Because they understood what he was saying.

We would see that again if we went to John 10 I'm not gonna belabor that but they picked up stones to stone him why because you being a man they say to him make yourself out to be

God So the the original audience, you know, it's so important we talked about authorial intent.

Well here we are We're we're sitting here in this confrontation between the Jews and Jesus and he says before Abraham was

I am and they go well You know, he's not really claiming to be God They do exactly what he was saying.

So they picked up stones and they were gonna stone him because he was blaspheming in their minds so it's absolutely essential that we understand that and that we can

Explain that to people one of the attributes of God is that he is living Christ remains alive today number 12 true or false

God acts effectually and Notice the capitalized letters. We did this last week and omnipotently

Trying to trip you up with that. But of course the answer is true. I Mean God does what he wants.

How would we know that because we read the Bible, right?

What's that? He says he does our God is in the heavens he does

Whatever I please know whatever he pleases How about you know

Ephesians 1 I love this verse

I love this whole chapter Ephesians 1 verse 11 in him we have obtained an inheritance having been predestined listen

According to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will you have a real tough time when

I Mean I guess I suppose you could try limiting

Limiting that to salvation. You have a real rough time when someone says well, you know

Yes, the airplane crashed into the towers on 9 -11 or the airplanes crashed into the towers on 9 -11

But that was outside of God's will Then you go back there and you go Well, it says he works all things according to the counsel of his will and the

Old Testament is filled with Evidence that God brings about disaster and all all manner of things.

There's nothing outside of his plan so any ideas that somehow things happen by accident or whatever are

Should be driven out of our minds by the Word of God Okay, and now we come to something completely new and different number 13 things that you've never thought of before well, maybe you have but we're here to remind you of those things because we're prone to forgiven forgetfulness number 13 true or false the fact that God is triune gives us insight into the necessity of his activity

That may not be intuitively obvious to the casual observer. I hear a true and the answer is true

This is a Culver again. We're going through Robert Culver systematic theology, and he says this

God always has been an active being Then he talks about Unitarianism.

What is Unitarianism that I'm sorry that The God is only one and not three.

Yes, okay

He says Unitarianism by depriving God of inner Trinitarian ism communion or inner

Trinitarian communion would give him nothing to do before creation and Deism By withdrawing

God from his world nothing since in other words God God would have no reason to be active in Christianity God is

Eternally the God who has something to do The triune God stood in no need of creating it in order to have something to love

Why because there was love between the Trinity? Before the world there was in the

God had no less to contemplate than after creation in other words He didn't really add anything. He didn't add anything to himself at all

He didn't do this to entertain himself to create something to amuse himself or for any other reason

Creation providence and redemption were not dictated by necessity. He had no compulsion to do this

The Trinity is the most rational of all doctrines because only it can Only by it can

God's eternal independence as the living God who acts be maintained

The alternative he says of a Unitarian doctrine of God proposes a desolate God who comes to limited blessedness only in creation a finite conscious life in other words

God separate from the Trinity separate from the Godhead It would be compelled would need the fellowship and that kind of thing

And he goes on to say well who knows what process theology is I see that hand

Michael Process theology is Okay, he's not immutable.

So I mean the easy way to say it is that God is in process. He's developing one of the kind of other ways of saying it is open theism which has gained an audience in nominal

Christianity over the last Couple decades and it's this idea that God is learning and growing as things go on and you know it's kind of like God as the above the phrase kind of chin -scratcher

You know kind of Oh really? I didn't I didn't know that was gonna happen that God learns things and I mentioned this before if we think about you know, we talked about the doctrines of God's sovereignty and salvation

And then we talked about the free will of man also known as you know, Arminianism What do you suppose the main purpose or the main focus?

Well, I think there are many reasons Why do you suppose that people want to cling to the idea that we have a free will?

In fact, I talked to a man last week who asked me on the way out He said well, I think one of the reasons that sin exists

Is so that we can exercise our free will and I said well, would you agree with me that we choose according to our nature?

That if we are redeemed we have the opportunity to Sin or not sin and if we're not redeemed that all we have the choice to do is sin

And he said well, I don't really know about that He said but here's what

I do know that we have a free will and that it's by Exercising this free will that God is most pleased.

I said well I gave From the pulpit. I didn't really go into it in detail, but my favorite example of free will in the entire

Bible He said oh, what's that? And I said, well, it's when Saul is persecuting the church and he is on the road to Damascus to pursue people to put them in jail and to kill them and continue pursuing the church and Christ appears to him on the road and says

Saul Choose you this day whom you will serve And he goes he looks at me and he goes is that what happened

I said You know with great restraint I Said not exactly.

I said actually what happened was Jesus said Saul Saul. Why are you persecuting me talking about the church in?

general and I go he didn't give him a choice and this was Troubling to the man, and I'm sure maybe

I hope he went home and and studied that but What but again, why do you suppose that this idea process theology let's go back to Arminianism for a moment why do you suppose that that it gained so much traction beyond the the desire for man to have a say in things and to have a free will and That man sort of he sort of hinted at it in his discussion

And and I and I think those are both right,

I think it is kind of the idea that somehow we're protecting God His reputation because if there's evil in the world if there's sin in the world and God is

Sovereign over all things then isn't it his fault that there's sin couldn't he stop it

Which is true, that's it that's another it's another issue Pam and and Pam's right

You know when we look around and we see people we see a lot of people that are good and nice and friendly and polite

And clean and thrifty and reverend, and they help old ladies across the street and their Boy Scouts They're nice people and Then there are people who are not so nice, and we want to attribute you know all these things to you know a free will

But you know getting back to the idea of protecting God if God chooses to save some people and he doesn't choose to save other people then

God's not fair so we want to protect God's fairness and the best way to do that is to give everybody a

Free will whereby they choose him or not him And and process theology gets you in just a second

Peggy process theology takes it a little step further where God is just kind of completely Unevolved he's almost the deist

God and he's just kind of learning and growing and so he's really not at fault Because if anybody does anything, it's not you know he didn't cause it.

It's on them so Peggy right

It's a great. It's a great point Peggy brings up that you know the the other issue here really is a

Misunderstanding well, it's a misunderstanding on two fronts first of all the holiness of God that somehow God is holy, but You know maybe we're not so unholy that on our best day with our best efforts you know when we go and work at the food bank, and we drop off the books for the kids at the

Education Center, and we're you know Helping cops set off flare patterns I don't know what we're doing you know

But we just get home at the end of the day, and we just start going boy I really did a good thing you know

I gave money to the Salvation Army outside of the the mall there, and I did this and I did that and Actually when

I think about it, I'm pretty good And and so we create this illusion where the

Disparity between God's holiness and our sinfulness is really maybe not that bad and may we even kind of discount sin

You know taking Taking almost a legalistic view of things in other words when we think about you know

We're kind of like the rich young ruler well all these things I've kept since my youth not Considering what Jesus said which was love the

Lord your God will allow your heart soul mind and strength love your neighbor as yourself and Understanding that we on our best days don't even come close to that So I think that is true, too.

It's another way of minimizing kind of that difference Any other thoughts

Steve yeah open theism really is the ultimate?

in kind of His will of desire just is the ultimate you know he's he's really nice God is and he really doesn't desire bad things for anybody, and you know he's as disappointed as anyone when people fail

You know I I guess we could say that it's kind of like how many remember who Stuart Smalley is

You know it's kind of that view of That that view of the relationship between us and God that you know we're we're good enough

We're likable enough, and you know that that kind of thing Anyway, I digress okay, so He talking about open theism and process theology, and then he says there are further practical benefits to this idea

That God is active and in the Trinitarian Godhood and he says there are other practical benefits

I suggest to we're delivered from the hopelessness of human life in a world with only natural laws and control

Of course I always wonder when I you know everybody will admit

That there are natural laws that control the universe and I mentioned I think a few weeks ago one of the funniest stories

I've read in quite a while which was this idea that scientists have now discovered that you know billions of years ago

The water that's here now was transported here by asteroids hitting the earth and You know this is this is a major breakthrough

And I'm just like this makes sense. You know this is believable. This is scientific

But natural laws run the run the thing for example. We I remember when my

My brother tried to get on the sheriff's department. He failed his psych test I'm not really ratting him out because he got a much better job down the road, but They asked him and this is the kind of thing.

I was really glad I didn't have to take the psychological profile I don't know why but I Stop laughing

Psychologist says my brother. She says now How would you feel if the

Sun came up in the West tomorrow? How are you supposed to answer a question like that?

But we understand that that's impossible why because it always comes up the East and sets in the West and that's just you know

That's the way it is There there are there are rules to creation things happen in Physically preordained ways

We understand that but what if there were only natural laws and control and we see what what is the result of that?

What's the result of people who think? You know I don't really believe in a God. I just believe in a universe of rules

They can do whatever they want without fear of judgment and so their lives tend to be not so Great or moral.

I mean they may say well. I'm moral within my own sense of morality which is a bunch of nonsense

But I mean the the whole idea of course of and I of a world where or a universe

Where things just go on because they go on They're just sort of fixed because they're fixed denies what the creator who set them all in motion who fixed them?

Who put them all in place? This is you know the point of Romans 1 that they see all that is created around them they see the order and the structure and everything and You know it's so subtle little things in TV shows and movies and stuff like that.

You know you have some kind of fungus and then there's a an insect that evolves that eats this fungus or you know all these kind of things that that just so happen to come about by Evolutionary processes as they're presented on Television and in movies you just think okay so You know what?

Insects just kind of knew that this fungus existed, and it would be a good food source So they thought they should morph into an insect that ate that I mean it

Just it just doesn't make any sense you know other than a creator who sets all things and places everything

The way it is now, but this is you know the human mind left to its own devices

He says here, he goes on to say another benefit. He says is that moral living has sufficient motive

We are not just getting in harmony with nature's laws But we serve the living and true

God for Cicelonians 1 9 Who will bring deed? Who will bring every deed into judgment with every secret thing whether good or evil

Ecclesiastes Ecclesiastes 12 14? So we we we have those benefits that we know that we're not we're not like these hopeless

Atheists who believe that they're just these natural laws and control and we also know that We serve the living and true

God let's look at number 14 true or false pantheism is the very opposite of Christianity Pantheism is the polar opposite the exact opposite of Christianity Christianity what is pantheism?

everything is God or God is Okay Pantheism let's try it again.

There's because there are two Similar words here. There's pantheism, and there's pen entheism

With the little en put in after that now pantheism is everything is

God Pan entheism is everything is or God is in everything so kind of And we're talking about pantheism.

Which is everything is God This would cover says pantheism is in fact the permanent natural bent of the human mind

Pantheism has only one really formidable opponent namely Christianity, so there you go

Yet by a net so the answer is true Yet by a strange irony each new relapse into this immemorial religion he puts in quotation marks is hailed as the last word in novelty and Emancipation or freedom in other words.

It's a new revelation It's pantheism. I mean this is without this how long was

Oprah on the air too long is correct You win the

Daily Devil However long it was 20 years 30 years

I would submit to you that she probably could have made it half as long if it wasn't for the fact that pantheism is kind of the

God of this or the religion of this age so that every time there's a new wave of Explaining this kind of pantheistic worldview.

You know they get on Oprah, and they can talk about being spiritual people You know the

God is in everything and that's pretty much what a lot of her show was about They tell being an expert on Oprah you know watching all things

Oprah The intelligence of the divine spirit whom Christians call God must be noted and explained to protect ourselves against ideas fatal to biblical faith

This is what we do all the time, and you know pastor Mike when he sends out his emails Little quotes here little snippets there a video there.

You know just bizarre things that are happening in Christianity Really they

I mean when we say you know guard the truth guard the trust The truth is under assault it doesn't

I mean and it's assault sometimes from people that Nominally would be inside the camp.

I mean it is distressing to see what some Christians are doing and promoting these days

But he says The divine the intelligence of the divine spirit whom Christians call

God must be noted and explained to protect ourselves against ideas fatal to biblical faith

These ideas are mainly of two kinds on the one hand there is the doctrine that the world has no personal center creator or control

Called God only a certain substance and it and we'll be talking more about that What would be an example of an it?

And I'm going to spoil something I put on the next quiz it doesn't really matter We won't get to it 10 next week anyway

What is an example of an it an impersonal?

What's that well let me read that again here? He goes?

Mainly on the one hand there is a the doctrine that the world has no personal center creator or control called

God only a certain substance and it like a force

I Look this up on the internet the internet is good for some things you know how many people

You are not gonna believe Australia is not how many people live in Australia. I don't even know I know there are at least six

How many people would you guess that obviously there are millions? I don't know how many millions There are millions anyway, however many there are

How many people would you guess in the last census in 2001 may is not the last sentence because they

Census I don't know if they've released 2011 yet. How many people would you say? Describe themselves as being

Jedis for their religious preference. What's your religion?

I'm a Jedite 70 ,000

But good on the Australian government they have refused to classify that as a religion just yet.

You know we'll we'll see how that goes I Guess maybe until they you know take out a late lightsaber or something but Yeah, that's the idea.

You know that there's some kind of universal force and really that's behind a number of different religions

Does it bug anybody when you hear the president or some politician talk about the great religions of the world?

You know Hinduism is a great religion. This is a great religion But it bugs me because you know they they get back to this same kind of idea about an immaterial

Force being in control of everything He says here in secularized

Western lands where Christianity has long held nominal allegiance of the majority That's how

I would describe the United States listen that one again where Christianity has long held nominal allegiance of the majority

This doctrine usually appears in supposedly harmless guys. It's called nature

Mother nature or Mother Earth I don't know about you, but I love those kind of love

Mother Earth bumper stickers. I love those things not in German idealistic philosophy of the 18th and 19th centuries

God was homogenized with nature as the absolute in other words it just kind of makes it all together

I Said to our men a couple weeks ago when we're meeting on these Saturday morning You know

Oh dark 30 things where my wife has to get up earlier than everybody else to make us breakfast she

Gets up really early that it's gonna say but this

I this idea of oh I said

I said one of the questions was true or false. It is good to be suspicious of any

German theologian and I of course the answer was true, but They said well, what about Luther, and I'm going well

It's good to be suspicious of him too, but the number of almost any false idea about Christianity has its origins in Germany.

I don't know why that's just the reality of things okay He says on the other hand in pantheistic all is

God religions Distinct knowledge of particular things is disparaged completely in other words this idea that you can know anything is completely disregarded

Now what would we call that? Today what were you call that is?

Is that Traditional is it modern is it postmodern

Existential I mean, it's the idea that it. I mean it really is postmodern. You know the modernist said that There is no truth the postmodernist says you can't even know truth

But that's the that's the kind of the way the world is gone Personal being is esteemed to be retrogression from the utter non -particular whatever that means

He says in as much as particular knowledge is denial of this ultimate Reality it is affirmed in Hinduism in Buddhism and Theosophy and all these different whacked -out religions

That a God who knows is closer to the Christian idea of Satan than to our

Lord Jesus's Holy Father No pantheist can find the comfort of David's assuring words as a father shows compassion to his children

So the Lord shows compassion to those who fear him for he knows our frame.

He remembers that we are dust Why would that not comfort the pantheist?

Why would that not comfort say somebody like Shirley MacLaine? Because they're not dust.

What are they? They're God they're divine

Again, it's this idea that we're all kind of you know on our separate paths.

I mean this is the Sort of universal Unitarian thing we're all in our different paths, but ultimately we're all driving toward the divine

See There is something similar in the pen listen to this word panentheism that is that Instead of everything is

God. This is God is in everything It's God is growing with the cosmos scarcely distinguishable from it some have identified it with evolution listen to what

CS Lewis says he goes he says pantheism certainly is Congenial to the modern mind in other words this idea that everything is divine

But the fact that a shoe slips on easily does not prove that it is a new shoe

Much less that it will keep your feet dry. It is almost as old as we are

It may even be the most primitive of all religions It is immemorial in India the

Greeks rose above it only at their peak in the thought of Plato and Aristotle their successors relapsed into the great pantheistic system of the

Stoics Modern Europe escaped it only while she remained predominantly Christian in other words this idea of pantheism is

Kind of the default position of mankind What's the evidence of that if you talk to any unbeliever?

What do they think of themselves? What's that? They profess in our own goodness

Almost there's almost no unbeliever that you will talk to that will come to you and just say you know

I know I'm a sinner and I Know that I need forgiveness because that would beg the question of Who do they need forgiveness from all right number 15 true or false

It implies nothing when we use the term mother nature well, that's false. I already gave that one away.

Sorry Nature knows or mother nature remember the old commercials. I think these were from the 60s and 70s

You know she'd open the little Little Margarine container, and you know taste it and go it's not nice to fool mother nature

You know Because it tasted so much like butter oh the shame of it mother nature teaches nature knows or mother nature teaches the birds where to make their nests are forms of Statements utterly out of place in a

Christian setting now would it be wrong to say for example that birds act according to their nature

Or dogs act according to their nature No, but it's the idea of this impersonal kind of Teacher or Force outside of God it isn't an interesting that almost always winds up being a female.

Why is that I don't know For Christians the personal creator remains in personal support and government in the whole of nature

Let's turn to Psalm 104 and we'll probably I guess me. We'll get 16 is there 16

There's a 16 Psalm 104

Bless the Lord. Oh my soul. Oh Lord my God you are very great

You are clothed with splendor and majesty covering yourself with light as with a garment

Stretching out the heavens like a tent He lays the beams of his chambers on the waters.

He makes the cloud his chariot He rides on the wings of the wind he makes his messengers win

His ministers of flaming fire. He sets the earth on its foundations so that it should never be moved

You covered it With the deep as with a garment the water stood above the mountains at your rebuke

They fled at the sound of your thunder They took to flight the mountains rose the valley sank down to the place that you appointed for them

You set a boundary that they may not pass so that they meet or they they might not again cover the earth talking about the waters

You make Springs gush forth in the valleys. They flow between the hills

They give drink to every beast of the field the wild donkeys quench their thirst Beside them the birds of the heavens dwell they sing

Among the branches from your lofty abode you water the mountains The earth is satisfied with the fruit of your work you cause the grass to grow.

I mean you get the picture Here's what the psalmist is saying what? That God created all things he set everything exactly where it needs to be he takes care of all of his creation

This is not some kind of deistic Uninvolved unplugged

God who leaves things to mother nature or some impersonal force You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate

That he may bring forth food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man

Oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man's heart The trees of the

Lord are watered abundantly the cedars of Lebanon that he planted in Them the birds build their nests the stork has her home in the fir trees

The high mountains are for the wild goats the rocks are a bat or a refuge for the rock badgers

He made the moon to mark the seasons the Sun knows it's time for setting you make darkness and it is night

When all the beasts of the forest creep about The young lions were roar for their prey seeking their food from God when the

Sun rises they steal away and lie down in their dens a man goes out to his labor and To his work until the evening.

I mean God has ordered everything and set everything in its place There are no

Accidents no impersonal forces at work Culver says and we'll close here in a moment the present reason for citing these matters is

That it is God's personal knowledge that ensures nature's practicality its success its magnificent rhythms and cycles

This point was made By the psalmist himself Oh Lord how manifold are your work says psalm 104 24 and we think of the

Living God and of his activity noted earlier This is just that this is the reality of it listen.

He gives this personal example We'll close right here the tilled acres of the farm where mrs. Culver and I live has recently been turned into three pasture fields where 13 of A distant neighbors cows and their calves grow fat

Four days ago they escaped into the surrounding forest through a gate thoughtlessly left open by a turkey hunter and Disappeared for two days these cows did then yesterday they reappeared in a nearer neighbors new seedling of an of Alfalfa a mile from where they left the open gates

The owner of the animals and his son -in -law came and savvy and as savvy operators gently started the anxious mothers

Moving back toward the forest and the distant gate They remembered each twist and turn through the gulches and ridges even in an abrupt 120 degree hillside turn

Re -entering the pasture through the open gate that had enabled their wandering adventures two days before There was no intellectual content in this bovine knowledge of the way home

Only some genetically derived instinct implanted not by impersonal nature But by the

Living God in this way animals sometimes know what people ought to know, but do not

The ox knows its owner and the donkey its master's crib, but Israel does not know my people do not understand

Isaiah 1 3 This is one of the facts of nature He says placed in contrast to the ignorance of Job and his friends by the

Lord in the argument of the book of Job listen Animals know their place animals act like animals and They act exactly according to their design.

It's only man that doesn't It's only man that doesn't give proper worship and act rightly as as we're supposed to But God is in complete control.

He has completely ordered everything. We do not and are not at the whims of Anything I mean, that's why you know if you say and I know you've heard this before But if you walk up to pastor

Mike after he preaches today, and he tells you that he's gonna do X Y or Z You know he's gonna go swimming with sharks.

He's gonna go skiing on Mount Everest whatever he's gonna do Because he's always doing things like that if you say to him good luck pastor

He'll stop you and say you know well. We don't believe in luck Why don't we believe in luck because the

Bible doesn't believe in luck. There's no such thing as an impersonal irrational force Ruling anything

God completely orders everything Let's pray Father in heaven we are thankful that you are sovereignly in control of all things that nothing is outside of your purview

That you have created everything for a purpose

Father the even the great comfort in this is even when you bring difficulty into our lives.

I know there are many people struggling with different relationships different financial problems

Health issues But father when we take a look at the big picture

It's not because you did not know these things were going to happen Is that you brought them into our lives and father that you work all things together for good and sometimes we look at things and go

That can't possibly be good But you say they're good Lord would you just help us to trust you in all things and to be mindful in all ways that you are in control that You are sovereignly orchestrating everything that as The old song says you have the whole world in your hands