Book of Romans - Ch. 8, Vs. 11-19 (02/20/2000)

Romans 8:10-11 and the Question of the Old Man

Open your Bibles, or whatever you have that has Romans 8 in it, and find verse 11, and then back up to verse 10. Romans 8, 10, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, and the spirit is light because of righteousness.

Greg, what's he mean, the body is dead because of sin? All right. All right.

So this body will never be redeemed, is that right? Last week I left you with an assignment. Who remembers what it was? Greg?

I have waited all week to have that explained to me. What is it? You don't have to look. Okay. John 39, Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for his seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born God.

My explanation. In my own humble words, when I was born of God, I was placed into Jesus Christ, and I cannot ever have sin.

Because you're in Christ? All right, Joe, what do you have?

Well, it's in my mind. I'll find it. I'll have to compare it to old age. That part of me cannot sin. The old flesh will get me in trouble sometimes.

Russell? I've gone to your epistle.

What I've been explaining is that when we're born of God, Jesus Christ is not only the real us, but we're the real us and never the opposite of sin. The real us is not the opposite of sin, but we're the real us.

That's the sufficiency. Anyone else? I have to ask the question, do we sin? You just said that? But if we're in Christ and we're born again, and that's the real us, how in the world can there ever be any sin contributed to us?

When it isn't about God, you just said there's a sin, you just said there's a sin.

You'll have to repeat it or get someone else to repeat it.

The scripture says that if we say we're not, we do not say we do not sin. The scripture's telling us. We're liars, we're liars.

That's my question exactly. Well, what happens to the new man when we're operating in the old man then?

What? Our experience of the spirit within us works on us. It makes you feel like you recognize that sin.

Alright, do you come out of the new man when you go sin?

I'm not separated from the spirit, but when we go, it's unnoticeable.

David, do we just leave the new man when we go from sin?

Everybody got quiet.

Before he answers, think about it for a week. Yes, don't do that. What takes place when we sin? If we are in Christ, born again, that's the real us. What happens to the real us when we go sin? Think about it this week.

The Spirit Who Gives Life to Mortal Bodies

Come now to verse 10 in the book of Romans, chapter 8. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his spirit that dwelleth in you.

Now, David, who was it that raised up Jesus? So, if the spirit of him that raised up Jesus, who is the spirit of him that raised up Jesus? Alright, he shall also quicken your mortal bodies. What's mortal body, David?

The tent we're living in, our physical body.

Well, then does that mean there is a redemption plan for this mortal body?

No, it just means he makes you alive. He's why you're in this world. Why are we talking about your immortal body? You confused me. Well, mortal body, mortal means something that can die. So he's talking about, he's not so much talking about your flesh and the senses that you have, the old man in this case.

He's talking about you as a unity. God's a unity and he's a trinity, we're the same way. So he's talking about us as a person, he just quickens us. As a human being on this earth, he quickens us.

So he's not talking about quickening our mortal bodies at resurrection. Well, he is, but...

Well, think about that for a week. Well, he said by his, well, he did say, he said by his spirit that dwelleth in you now, so I've always thought that we're quickened now, we're alive. As opposed to the way we were right before salvation.

But see, there's nothing changed in our mortal body.

Because you've died. That's right. That's what he's talking about. By Christ, when he was resurrected, he would be justified by his death.

Well, my question is concerning he will also quicken your mortal body, that's the one that dies. Let me ask you this, when Christ came out of the grave and Peter and John went in and looked, what did they find, Dennis?

Nothing? Did they find the body? Did they find any part of the body? Greg, did they find a crumb of the body? Well, what happened to it? So if it was quickened, what happened to it? It was made alive?

Yes, that's what quickened means.

Well, think about it for a week. So we need some answers today. No. I'm so confused to think about it for a week now. The question you're asking is verse 11. There's all kinds of places where it talks about.

We're quickened right now. Is your answer referring to that or is it something else you're asking?

Well, what I'm wanting to know is what happens to our old physical body? That's salvation during the rapture. Oh. Salvation doesn't happen.

All right. We live in our old body, in our flesh. That's right. We have an old mind and a spiritual mind. Well, they're five. And whichever wins is the one, the other one. So if we've not got a spiritual one, it is five.

And we're not, because things can go wrong. And that one is the spiritual, which means that the people cannot go wrong. Literally, what the other question was, is there's a war going on, and whichever one wins is the one, the other one.

Well, what you're saying is exactly right, Trudy. But I still want to know what happens to the old mortal body when we resurrect.

In the Bible, there's a Christian that says that the seed gives us a bone. And the seed gives us a bone. Why would we need a bone? Because he's got our spirit up there. But he wants us to be reunited with a mortal body.

You're very wise. You can't sit over there. You have to come sit over there. Up here. Such distinguished-looking people need to be in the front. Open your Bibles to Romans 8, verse 11, and then go to verse 12.

Living by the Spirit Rather Than the Flesh

11 says,. But if the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwelleth in you, that's the Holy Spirit, he that raised up Christ, which is the Father, from the dead, shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his spirit that dwelleth in you.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors not to the flesh to live after the flesh. For if you live after or according to the flesh, you shall die. But if ye through the spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

Greg, what's mortifying mean? To kill. To kill. So, if we through the spirit kill the body, the deeds of the body, the things that the body wants to do, you shall live. You shall live eternally. Now, you can, you can be an active Christian, and you can, in your Christian work, still not be living the life of Christ.

You can even be a Christian and be sinning each time you go to church. Dennis, how in the world could you do that? I can't.

What other reason? Diane? I can work with any pastor. All right. Bill? I don't know if we can answer that.

There's a lot of things that we do that are simple, that we do as a part of the church, but I think you'll have to study that. It's such a big deal. When God doesn't love you, a lot of people are not that loving.

In a small church we belong to in Dallas, they had a man come and join once with his family, and he made the statement outside a week or two later that he was just at this church until his business grew, and then he was going over on the north side of the big church.

Now, was he coming to church for the right reason? I wouldn't think so. If your motive is wrong, if you are doing it to please a preacher or a teacher or to impress someone, if you go for any reason other than to learn and to praise, you'd be better off staying home.

It's a dangerous thing to come and listen to the gospel, and it will not affect you. If you have no fellowship with the Father, if you live after the flesh, we live through the Spirit, you cannot do this of yourself.

Can you, Clarence, decide that tomorrow morning when you get up, you're going to live in the Holy Spirit today? It has to be a habit. It has to be a way of life. It has to be something that you are normally doing.

The word through means what, David? It points to... Right. Okay, it points to an agent someplace. Verse 14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Tell me what that verse does not say.

All right? Do you see anything else in there? As many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Well, that's what John said. Huh? All right. Although that's true, it does not say we are driven by the Spirit.

It says we are led by the Spirit. Doesn't it scare you to try to push a chain? You can't do it. You can't push the Holy Spirit. 15, For ye have not received the Spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Adoption, Fear, and the Spirit's Witness

For you have not received the Spirit of bondage again to fear. Greg, explain that to us.

What's that got to do with fear? Well, it's like people want to go to church, but they can't. All right.

Russell, what's it mean? Bondage again to fear. When we talked about Denver, when we talked about the law and working together, where they weren't transgressing the law, that's what that difference is about, too.

We know that Paul knew that when he walked and worked together, the Spirit of God never transgressed the law.

All right. Trudy, then we're to live without fear?

Because the Father has adopted the Spirit, that we should no longer be enslaved to fear and demons.

That we should start a new life.

Then do any of you at any time fear anything? The point I'm trying to get to is when you see something or you experience something that is brand new to you and you are very frightened by it, what has happened?

I think my voice, and God has not given us fear to fear, but has now allowed us to have that. So any time that we experience fear, we're not fully trusting in God. That's right. It's just as simple. It would be the only one we should fear is God.

That's right. If you fear something else, it's almost as poor as the last offer. Because you're fearing that He's not in control.

And you suddenly realize that even you are not in control.

Galatians 2 and 12 say, Now we have received much through the world of the Spirit which is of God, that we might know these things that are freely given to us by God. That's right.

I feared my Father, but I loved Him. My fear of my earthly Father was that I would do something that did not please Him with my heavenly Father. I have never, in all of the 45 years or less, more, I have never set out to teach.

I guess I set out all the time without butterflies in my stomach. There is always that little bit of fear that I will leave somebody wrong. And I think it's healthy. I think if a teacher ever gets to the point where it's just an automatic humdrum thing, he better quit.

The same way with each one of you as you study. If it's not exciting, there's something wrong. What is the difference between receiving and accepting? Yes, very much. All right, so we have not received.

Dennis, what's the difference in receive and accept? Whereby we cry Abba, Father. Same word. We cry Father. In all of my years of growing up, I never heard any of the other children or teenagers or people call my daddy Father because he was not.

They had no right to do that. We have a right to call God our Father. Not everybody in the world has that right. We do. The Spirit, and it should be Himself, not itself, the Spirit, verse 16, Himself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.

Beareth is an imperfect verb. Greg, what does that mean? All right. So the Holy Spirit bears continually with our spirit, not just once, but all of the time, testifies to and with our spirit that we are the sons or children of God.

God causes His children to know that He leads them. The unsaved, not so. He will never cause an unsaved to believe that they are saved when they're not. That's of Satan. The unsaved, not so, even though the unsaved are doing His will now.

Brother John, how in the world can an unsaved person ever do the will of the Father? Can you give me an example quickly out of the Bible? Well, can you give me an example not so quickly out of the Bible?

Who? Lots of others, but we always think of Pharaoh. Judas? Brothers. What? Joseph's brothers. Joseph's brothers. Anybody that's ever done anything. Yeah. Go to Daniel 4 .35, please. Clarence, read that to us.

Yes. Any time you get to thinking that you're in control of something, go read that. Or if you think the government's in control of something, go read that. That's just as plain as it can be. Then go to John 10 .27.

David, you got that open? Well, let's let Bill read it. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. Now, Jesse, would that be only after salvation? No. Well, then, Russell, how could it be before salvation?

Well, can you remember when you were not saved? You can. Then, if you did not know the voice of the Heavenly Father, how come you heard it when he called you? That's right. That's right. And he knows all of them.

It makes no difference where they are or when they are. And when you hear his voice, saved or unsaved, you respond. Isn't it wonderful that we do? Isn't it wonderful that he said we would? John 11 .10.

Jesse.

Heirs with Christ and the Coming Glory

That's good. 7 .17.

And if, or since, we're children, then we are heirs. We are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together, meaning with him. Now, he will be glorified.

He is glorified in us. So, since we're children, then we are heirs. Clarence, what's the definition of an heir? All right. Bill, what's the difference between joint heir and co-heir? I think you got it back.

The other inheritance. All right.

The co-heir, it would be divided equally. Joint heir, you get your portion. We're not co-heirs with Christ. We're joint heirs. Yes. Yes. And co-heir means that it's a separate inheritance. I think that's what you're saying.

The miracle is in the hearing. Well, maybe I implied that each person would get an equal inheritance. No. Well, I'm looking...

That's right. But I want to be sure that Debbie back there wasn't confused. All right. 18. For I reckon... Reckon, there's a good Southern word. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Go back to verse 17. I'd like for you to go to Philippians 1 .29, please. John, would you read that to me? All right. It's been given to us to believe. We couldn't believe unless the belief had been given.

But also, part of the same package of salvation includes suffering. Now, that doesn't mean from the two faiths. It means suffering for the sake of Christ. I really seriously doubt that very many of us have suffered because we're a Christian.

There are people in the world today that are being killed because they're a Christian. I think it's coming to this country, to this town. And I hope I'm gone first. Now, come down to verse 18 again. Oh, no, before we leave there, go to Philippians 2 .19.

Let's see if that's it. Trudy, when you get there, read it to me. 17, 13. Yes. Boy, it is God that works in you to do that which pleases Him and to cause you to want to do that which pleases Him. So, John, we still have lost out in trying to do something, haven't we?

Now, 18, for I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. Two or three points here. First of all, Greg, what's reckon me?

All right. That the sufferings of this present time, Dennis, the present time would refer to what? Right now. And, Russell, the sufferings are not worthy to be compared. What's it mean to be not worthy?

If something's not worthy, we would say what about it? All right. Sufferings that are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. Shall be. Shall be is an imperative future.

So David is still to come. And it's sure that it's coming. Now, the glory that is going to be revealed in us. David, to whom is it going to be revealed? So, the glory in Bill will be revealed for me? Or is there going to be some other?

You know, there's...

And they don't know much, do they? Well, they don't know much about the future. All right. Clarence, you're the business guru here. Give me an example of we're dealing in the realm of weight now and weighing on scales.

We've got the glory over here that's going to be revealed and we've got our sufferings over here in this present time. How much suffering will it take to balance out the glory? So the sufferings will be equal to the glory?

There's just like a little bit of snow or ice on their side and some people, oh my gosh, look at that. And that person who knows what they will be says, oh, you just brush that off. That's the suffering you have.

Here is that little bit that you brush off and compare to the glory of the end. And that's kind of the picture I saw, is that little slope. Even though we think it's a brick or a chest, it's a snowflake on your side.

That's good.

That's a good comparison. The Bible says it cannot be compared, which Clarence said. You can come up with all kinds of analogies and pictures, but really it does not depict the real thing. In all of this, every bit of it, we're just opening the door this morning.

We could come back here for a month. The Father will use us to reveal his glory. We'll be the ones on display. Yes. That's right. It'll be his glory in us. 19, for the earnest expectation of the creature, here it means creation, waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Now, David, those are all $10 words. What does it mean?

I think, David, it means that all of God's creation is waiting and watching for the moment when the sons of God. Here's where I'm not sure what this manifestation refers to, whether it refers to our salvation or whether it refers to our glorification, but I'll lean towards the glorification part.

It's as if the entire creation of God is holding its breath, waiting until the point where we're glorified, where we're with him, where we're at that place where the glory is that can't be compared to the suffering that's down here.

It does not know the time. It does not know the term. What?

All right. This creation goes get a new body just like we do, and that's why it's groaning and waiting. Bill go to John 1, 12. Clarence go to Romans 8, 14. We just had that. Diane go to Philippians 2, 15.

Mrs. Fisher go to 1 John 3, 1. Greg go to 1 John 3, 2. Let's see what these say. Yes. All right. Philippians 2, 15. That's the reason that he has done this to us, that we can shine forth him to the world.

1 John 3, 1.

1 John 3, 2.

These are shouting places. You know, like David mentioned, we read, we study, and that's where we're going to stop. And we read over so much, and unfortunately we think, I understand that, to go on to something else.

I caution everybody that studies the word, slow down. I care less how slow you're traveling. You need to slow down. Look at the grammar. Look at why it's written like it is. The laws of grammar will interpret the truth of the Bible to you.

And that's a true saying. Is there anything from anybody? It's good to have these visitors with us again. Well, let's stand then, and we'll be this way. Our Heavenly Father, we thank you for this time that we can come together, these few moments in which we can spend discussing your word and learning from it.

I would that the things that have been said this morning will be meaningful, and will cause each of us to come to a new understanding of your truth. Now, we'd ask you to go ahead of us into the rest of the services of today, that it might all be praised in your glory, in the name of Christ.

Amen.