August 13, 2019 Show with Dr. Tony Costa & Sule Prince on “Why Is Apologetics Necessary?”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown, Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth were listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Tuesday.

On this 13th day of August 2019 we've got two guests on Together today, and I'm delighted to have both of these guests back on the program. First we have my very dear friend Dr. Tony Costa who is professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary and joining him today is Suley Prince senior pastor of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario Canada and today both of these guests will be discussing.

Why is Apologetics necessary and it's my honor and privilege to welcome. Dr. Tony Costa and Pastor Suley Prince back to iron sharpens iron radio. Greetings brothers.

And.

Why don't we first very briefly a dr. Costa tell our listeners about Toronto Baptist Seminary. For those of our listeners who have not yet heard you on the program before.

Sure, Toronto Baptist Seminary is in Canada and we train men for the MTHM degree at Oakwood level and. So we teach various topics ranging from systematic theology. And you serve as professor of apologetics and Islam there and that has a lot to do with our topic today.

Why is apologetics necessary? Right, right, and we have also as I said earlier pastor Suley Prince Who is senior pastor of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario.

Canada and pastor Suley if you could let our listeners know something about Oakwood Wesleyan Church is with me. He preaches on Sunday morning in apologetics called as well.

Amen, and one thing that may surprise our listeners who don't already know this Is that although you are pastoring a Wesleyan Church, which is predominantly historically Arminian and it's theological and soteriological understanding and convictions you both you and Dr. Tony Costa are theologically reformed Baptists.

Yeah.

So yeah, that's an interesting story.

Yeah, if Ripley's Believe or Not was still on we would be on that show. Pastors pastoring a Wesleyan Church. Yeah.

Well, I know that we went into the history behind how that all happened before but perhaps another time we'll readdress that. You two. One of the reasons why we were addressing apologetics today is that you two are doing some kind of a apologetics Ministry there at Oakwood Wesleyan Church, and I believe it is available on the internet, but tell us more about what you are doing.

Okay, I can I can maybe I can start and then passes who like we have been on Sunday afternoon. You run them sometimes we run shorter ones at four weeks of session and are to educate the church in Theology.

We have people who not just people who join us to the internet around the. We've had people as far away as the UK and Malaysia. And of course, we teach them theological native course and. We just support the summer.

We did one on angels and demons. So we we do get a lot of students by students. I mean anyone it we're not offering to not at this point. But we do have senior years. Even you you believers in Christ who we've always had a passion and a vision to to utilize this is that large.

And so this is one of the ways the Lord. The need for apologetics is maybe just our introduction course. We are trying to deal with the questions that are being. I think that we've hosted one course in which you could not engage somebody an unbeliever on the street with a.

Fully equipping the the church people are interested in apologetics. So they could properly do something. They could talk to maybe.

Apologetic for this great. Well, I'm gonna give our listeners our email address right now. It is Chris a RN z en at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter Dr. Tony Costa before we find out why apologetics is necessary. Can you please define apologetics?

I interpret Zion radio very frequently hears from listeners in the audience who are very new believers and Sometimes they're even folks from outside of Christianity altogether and they may mate. They may be unfamiliar with this term apologetics.

Please define it for us.

Yeah, let me let me first say what. Apologizing in Jesus name. So look, yeah, we are raising how to articulate. Yeah, you were talking about.

How apologetics is not about Saying you're sorry for the horrible things that Christianity allegedly is guilty of. Not that Christians don't sin, of course, but there is a lot of stuff that is laid at the feet of Christianity and genuine general genuine Christianity That does not deserve the accusations it gets.

There are specific people who do because we all sin and so on. But It reminds me of An interview I did a long time ago with Jay Adams. Dr. Jay Adams on his book from forgiven to forgiving and He hated the term Apologize or I apologize when people are guilty of sinning against someone else.

He.

Basically was saying that That is giving a defense for what you did. Right, and it usually is a very quick and easy way for people to think that they are Getting out from under the guilt of something.

I apologize. But in his Alternative which he believed and I agree is the biblical way to Respond to our own sinful actions is I have sinned. Please forgive me. Not I apologize, but please forgive right?

Right, but that is a another topic for another day. So I'll let I'll let you both answer this question and perhaps We could start with a doctor or pastor. I should say Suley Prince Why is apologetics necessary and perhaps even let us know what you mean by necessary.

Obviously people may jump to the wrong conclusions and think that every Christian has a duty that they are duty bound to Be trained in apologetics and the original languages of the Bible. They have to study the cults and false religions and I am fairly certain This is not what you mean by what it why is apologetics necessary, but if you could begin pastor Suley Prince.

Well, I believe that apologetics what it does it it apologetics seeks to unpack the claims of the Christian faith in light of his historical evidence and give reasons as 1515 for what they believe, you know, nobody steps in an elevator and doesn't believe that it's going to take.

Nobody's going to get on an airplane. I do you don't do the Unexamined life is not way and if you stretch that a little bit further The unexamined belief is not worth believing when you're dealing with people.

It's also for your own little skip um, there are time that Claims are made and we get nervous about it. The scientists bring out this claim many people nervous but if we have a firm understanding of what we believe and This puts to not be this all this statement Faith is not a leap.

We are not there I mean there is a lot of mind and they'll be able to and dr. Costa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with what pastor Suley said I I think as well the necessity of apologetic young men and women out in any military training.

They need to learn hand-to-hand combat. They need to learn how to use arms in battle and so forth and so when they go out arena ideas and full of life and so when it's colleges universities and they confront and and Make it there a statistics are showing us in shocking numbers that the majority of young people who go to post-secondary Education here in Canada about 65 to 70 percent and I'm being very generous with these people don't come back to and the reason for that is That are young people on how do you know the Bibles were men inspired by the Holy Spirit who were?

Ready and able to to give reasons for their faith any of these leaders He actually was young people end up yesterday that he's done with Christian that he was walking answered are being answered now.

Although as I said earlier Not every Christian is duty-bound To be trained in the original languages to be trained in the false beliefs of cults and world religions. But at the same time every Christian is duty-bound to be ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within.

You know curse if you really look at it. It is not height. We have video or you are even trying to mind and enable you to engage people in Conversation. My barber always want that book you're reading.

Well Guy who was sitting in. In fact, you're not. Then he just went on a tirade. He got so mad guy. This don't believe in God so you don't believe in objective. And you said well, you know, it's wrong outing and you don't want to.

He tried to shout me down. You can use against people and you just show them. Yes, and one thing about.

Apologetics even though as I said a couple of times here that not every Christian is duty-bound to be trained in the original languages and then false religions and so on. If You have family friends and loved ones and neighbors Who are perhaps? Involved in a false religion a cult.

Or a false religion or cult is very dominant where you live. It would demonstrate your care for those around you those that you love. By by doing research on what they believe that when you have a conversation with them on eternal matters You're just not oblivious to what they believe.

As I said we who are and I always hate to use the term layman, but I can't think of a better one. The average Christian is not Bound or duty-bound to know about every false religion in every cult, but if it affects your life And it has some significance with your family or where you live You should go the extra mile to find out more about what those People in false religions are believing and all right.

Yeah, you have to inquire and then it relates to his Bible back 17 thing. He does his audience. He's students on Islam. A clapping.

Yes, and in a broader area Men like you dr. Costa and James White and Those that are thoroughly trained in the original languages those that are Excelling in their studies of false religions cults and world religions.

They are necessary to the body of Christ because you have Basically as these centuries go by and as the years go by You have the breeding if you will of false religions and cults that multiply and multiply and secular humanist ideology and post-modernism and all kinds of Antichrist philosophies and ideologies and religions That keep developing and you will have even many masquerading in the name of Jesus Christ.

Who are brilliant? Who are Trying to convince the multitudes and are successful sadly in convincing Multitudes that the doctrines that you and I that with the three of us hold to be precious and invaluable and essential for salvation are either nonsense or they are a Should be an should be subjects of mockery and laughter or they are Theologically wrong.

You could go on and on depending upon who the anti-christian is and these things need to Be refuted intelligently and through the scriptures. You could easily deceive the average Christian who does not know the original languages of the Bible if someone claims to know those languages and Tells you that what you are reading in your English Bible is wrong.

And this is what it really means. So therefore it is invaluable to have men like you who do know these languages. As I said not that everybody needs to know them but Your existence and the existence of genuinely sound biblically faithful apologists is as a invaluable and priceless gift to the body of Christ.

Well, thank you. Thank you. I get a tree. I mean God raised up people like Athanasius to defend the deity of Christ against areas and remember these heretics like areas. And the story well this question again.

Valentinus and People like areas and others. Pelagius. These were brilliant men. Areas for example with a winsome speaker and he actually taught people thought and and we think of people much damage to the faith.

Of many we're dealing here with very intellectual to raise up Athanasius. He has to raise up and plagiarist. He has to raise up Luther again, but I think you're absolutely right. You need to understand that the other side also have their apologists.

And so we do need apologists in the church who will stand up. And defend the church and and the teachings that Christ has given to her by the way is one of those.

Jingles that was used to teach doctrine. I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect.

That's when coke was first invented. But I was thinking particularly of the jingle that areas of Alexander came up with that. There was a time a time when he was not in their problem along those lines.

But by the way, I know that you wanted to say something pastor Suley. But we're gonna go to our first break and when we return You could say what you'd like to say. I'm in a quick read or I'm going to quickly read a Question that you both can answer also when we return and this is from somebody from your neck of the woods.

His name is sickly which from what I recall from his previous questions to us is a Combination of a Canadian and a Dutch name. Sickly he is from Panoca, Alberta, Canada and He asks good afternoon brothers.

I was curious if you include a defense of a young earth creation in your apologetics and why or why not you do and It's significance or insignificance. So you can answer that when we come back from our break.

If anybody else would like to join us our email address. It's Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Chris Arnson at gmail .com. As always give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA and Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

It's Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. God willing. We'll be back right after these messages from our sponsors. With more of dr. Tony Costa and pastor Sule prints on why apologetics is necessary.

Hi, this is John Sampson pastor of Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the iron sharpens iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

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This is Chris Arnson. If you just tuned us in our guests today are dr Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary and also his co-pastor at the Oakwood-Wesleyan Church.

Pastor Sule Prince who is the senior pastor at Oakwood-Wesleyan Church of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. We are discussing why is apologetics necessary? Our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least. Your city and state in your country of residence. If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private Matter and as I was asking both of you before the break and as soon as we ask this question and get your answers We'll have pastor Sule Prince Speak about what he was trying to say before the break but we have Sikali in Ponoka Alberta Canada asking if You teach and defend a young earth position of creation in your apologetics teachings.

Okay, did you want to answer that question first? Sure. Go ahead wanna. Sure. Okay. I'm I'm looking. I'm a convinced young earth creation. I believe that the earth is mentioned there are. I think the length demands that evening morning sequence of Genesis 1 and Also the pattern that God gave Israel that that the writer of Genesis who I believe to be Moses Intended that to be taken literally.

I just want to make a qualifying statement Chris if I made that there are many Christians in Christ who do hold to different people like dr Hugh Ross, for example while I disagree with these brethren.

I.

Still believe that they are and I think that when we deal with the beginning and the ending needs to be some millennial post millennial pre millennial whether it is when we deal with that's the beginning and end point.

Seems to be the areas were Christian a literal reading of Genesis and a young earth create the Lord Jesus was one and two particularly one may have been to be metaphor and therefore would and.

Pastor Sule you care to comment on that?

Well, I I wonder I was going to talk about something different. I could go. Okay. Well, I just want to ask one more thing.

Then of dr. Costa. Do you discuss this as the listeners sick sick Ali was asking. Do you discuss this in your apologetics course?

Yes, I do.

Okay, pastor Sule.

And you know, it's a lot deeper, but I wanted an Apollo, you know, do you have any? Topics that you guys each on me, but do you know anybody that would be he recommended on should I email? Dr. Cosby he seemed to be able to intrigue you talk to them and and you have trustee deeper into this.

Now, what would you both say is.

The primary area of need in the church in the 21st century That would fall under the umbrella of apologetics. What are the areas that? That Every Christian should be further equipped in regard to their ability to respond to criticism or opposition or mockery, etc.

The areas that Would be primary rather than secondary or tertiary things. There are other matters of apologetics that perhaps can wait Whereas there are some things that are more urgently needed. I mean perhaps we can wait before we understand fully the theological paradigm.

Sweden Borgian ism. Unless of course your family is sweet and Borgian is but but tell us Dr. Costa first and then pastor Suway. What is the greatest need in this area?

Yeah, I I think I think Sweden Borgian. Is that what started Ikea.

Although I do know I do know people who were raised in that cult. But anyway, oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a strange cult.

Three areas educational is not and So because of that you and that means life Ultimately cannot be objective. It is subjective. It's whatever you make of it. And so this this relates very Very closely to the existing would say that that's the the objectivity of truth and meaning and morality in the world is one of the main areas.

The other area is a standards and So there's a need to be the inspiration to the unbeliever. And I think that they're all of these right now in many churches in America today. And so the reason why this is so right most people today and now we have sex.

Maybe is not being caught but I think what we need to show on right now is the human being as a human being.

Isn't it ironic. How? For decades. Actually, perhaps even a century the liberal rhetoric The illiberal apologetic in a in opposition to Christianity has Largest has largely been based in their minds anyway on science and Yet today and this is just really a very recent phenomenon.

Today you have Outlandishly unscientific things. Being Demanded to be believed as fact such as Man says that he is a woman because he identifies as a woman feels like a woman. I think that's a song somewhere.

But but we everyone surrounding this person in the universe Is supposed to immediately in lockstep say, okay, you're a woman even if it defies every scientific Fact that is known to man. So this is really a change even though we've always believed as Christians That a lot of the alleged science claimed by leftists is fake science and false science.

This goes beyond that. This is just into the spectrum of fairy tales. I mean, you know, I would agree. No pun there. No.

No, they want to use science even such issues. I wanted to talk against them our brothers like this even here. They're Bible people don't have. Yes years ago on the old iron trip and Zion radio.

Broadcasting out of New York. I had a panel of Ministers and liberal denominations that were pro-life and.

And.

Right before Seconds before we went on the air these ministers when we were sitting around in the studio waiting for the show to start Started discussing what their favorite Bible translation was and the United Methodist pastor Said oh, I like the New World translation and everybody was sitting there and shocked silence.

And I said you do know that that's the Jehovah's Witness Bible. Don't you they said? Oh, yes I'm an Aryan and then all of a sudden I hear from the other side of the glass Chris. You've got three seconds.

We're going on now. Boy that was. I don't think I've sweat any more than I sweat that day. But anyway, we have to go to our elongated break today. During the middle of the show. We always have to have an elongated break because grace life radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show.

So they can air their own public service announcements. And commercials to localize iron sharpens iron radio to Lake City, Florida and so while they are airing their commercials we air our globally heard commercials and.

So I'm asking you to make the best use of this time write down the information Provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them. Because the more frequently and successfully you patronize them the more likely they are going to remain our advertisers.

Which means the more likely we are going to remain on the air. So, please try to patronize our advertisers as much as possible. Also, please send in your questions to pastor Sule Prince and dr. Tony Costa the Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com on the subject of the What why? Apologetics is necessary. Why apologetics is necessary. So we look forward to hearing from you and your questions after this elongated break.

So, please be patient and don't go away. We'll be right back with dr. Tony Costa and pastor Sule Prince to further discuss Why apologetics is necessary right after these messages from our sponsors?

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Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the iron sharpens iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing one of the very few safe places on the internet Where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time and knowing this.

It's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances. I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting iron sharpens iron.

Financially, would you consider sending either a one-time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry? I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at iron sharpens iron Radio .com where you can click support.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen and We are going to before we return to our guests make some very important announcements in regard to Special events that we hope that you attend. These are events that I think will benefit every life of Those in our audience and I hope that especially if you live near where the events are being held that you make every effort to be there.

The first event coming up is taking place in September a dear friend of mine pastor Bruce Bennett who has been a guest on my program on a number of occasions he is the pastor of Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York and He is going to be debating a Roman Catholic apologist named Matthew Luke Broderick on the theme Is the office of Pope biblical.

Is the office of Pope biblical that will be Saturday September 7th 630 p .m. At the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York. If you want more details go to WOT church .com. WOT which stands for Word of Truth church .com WOT church .com or call 631 -806 -0614 631 -806 -0614.

Then in December, I'm gonna be packing up my bags and heading down or should I say up to my old stomping grounds. My old stomping grounds in Manhattan to the foundations conference and what better time of year than to be in New York City.