April 21, 2017 Show with Tom Sullivan on “Puritan Helps for the Spiritually Depressed” AND “Have You Committed the Unpardonable Sin?”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris.

Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday

on this 21st day of April 2017.

I'm very honored and delighted to have for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

someone who is actually airing this program on Voice in the Wilderness

Radio.

I was very delighted to hear that another internet network has picked us up and is

playing our program regularly and the founder of Voice in the Wilderness Radio is our guest today.

His name is Tom Sullivan who is also the founder of Puritan Audiobooks and today we're

discussing Puritan Helps for the Spiritually Depressed and we're also going to be asking the

question, have you committed the unpardonable sin?

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Tom Sullivan.

Well thank you Chris.

And also in studio with me is my co -host the Reverend Buzz Taylor.

Hello once again.

And what I'd like to do is before we even go into our subject at hand first I want you to tell

our listeners about Voice in the Wilderness Radio and Puritan Audiobooks but then I'd like you to give our

listeners some of your background, what religious upbringing you had if any, and what the Lord,

what our Sovereign Lord used in his providence to draw you to him to save you and how you.

Eventually came to embrace Reformed Theology.

Well let's start.

I'm going to toss it into my lap because

now a

little

bit

about

Puritan

Audiobooks.

Christianity about the year 1981 and

things that

I wouldn't recommend anybody to

read.

Year 19

approximately three and a half years

and so

I had to find these

things out on my

own.

Regeneration, the new birth, conversion, and so on.

I mean to

New York City,

connection down in Louisiana, down in

that area.

And as

I,

and I remember

speaks of John Owen and I

thought,

and a friend of mine who attended Trinity

was then in Venice.

Amy Nelson were in their 80s

so it was

things,

90 -minute tapes in those days and that's where it

all, and now coming up on 32 years I'm still doing this but everything

now is digital.

Yeah we certainly have come a long way in technology.

I can.

Remember when I first started in radio there were no such things as CDs and

we when we did editing for commercials and for programs we

used a razor blade and a.

Reel and so.

Well that's interesting you bring that up because the problem with cassettes was when you're narrating a book and you

make a mistake you have to rewind before you made that mistake.

There's no perfect of

an echo.

Well I'm.

Going to give our email address to our listeners right now it's chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com and oh I think I forgot to mention or

ask you I should say before we go on with our topic today.

Tell us about some of the programming that you have in addition to Iron Sharpens Iron that you.

Have on Voice in the Wilderness Radio.

Well

Chris did

recommend and not everything that was on Sermon Audio was equal

and so he wanted to mostly a handful

of reform and give them a new way to be heard

and I did

back to 1984 that it

was just a natural trend.

Okay great.

What time do

you air

Iron

Sharpens

Iron Radio.

Because I know you're not airing it live.

Well we try to get it back in the

morning on

Eastern

and then we have

an iPhone app

and we have an Android app so people.

Wow that's great and you you have been listening to Iron.

Sharpens Iron Radio all the way back to the 2006.

Correct?

Yes and I must say to.

Your benefit.

It's a time when you were airing on a Spanish

station and we'd hear a lot.

That's right.

Welcome so much.

Hello brother you disappeared are you.

There?

I hear you.

Yes.

Okay yeah you were saying that when we were on the Spanish station in fact when I was on that Spanish station

went because it was a Spanish network that bought out the

the English -speaking Christian station.

Radio Contico Nuevo purchased that station and I was the only English

program on that station.

And the reason why was because when the Spanish network

purchased that station everybody left including me overnight we had no warning about this.

Okay.

And then about two weeks later the

the general manager of the station the new general manager the Spanish general manager

called me and he said our phone is ringing off the hook from people who love your show and they

want you back.

Would you be willing to come back and you would be the only English program but would you be

interested in coming back.

So I went back and I was on that Spanish station for I think at least

two years.

Now were you.

Still in Long Island in those days or had you already made the move to Carlisle?

No that was Long Island New York I was I was living in Amityville Long Island and the the station was

in West Babylon and probably still is West Babylon Long.

Island New York.

And how long have you been in the Carlisle area then?

I moved.

Here in 2012 and I relaunched the

program in June of 2015.

I think it's...

Oh that's good to know.

Yeah.

I really appreciate that.

Well our email address if anybody would like to join us is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

If you have a question about our topic today and you can remain anonymous if it's about a

personal and private matter especially since some of our show today does involve

people who are crippled with fear wondering if they have committed the unpardonable

sin so obviously some some of you may want to remain anonymous.

And also because spiritual depression is a is a big part of our topic

today so obviously that that would loan itself to or lend itself to

a person perhaps wanting to remain anonymous.

But if it's not about a personal private matter please at least give us your first name city and state and country of

residence.

If you live outside of the USA and I know that today you wanted to really

go through these main topics using the Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan

through certain chapters and and scenes within the story

of the Pilgrim's Progress to convey the messages about a help for spiritual depression

and the issue of the unpardonable sin tell us explain exactly why you wanted to do it

that way.

Well I.

Am I'm not also on spiritual depression.

What I am is kind of a walkingist and so

the way my mind works.

Christian to

the man in the iron

cage.

What

did the.

And then

finally

there can be

medical you know

because

certain

kind

of

seems like

they're all of giant despair.

The worst -case

scenario that we went into a state

again.

In fact if you could I'd like you to briefly if

you don't mind.

Tell the summary of the story of at least one of the

suicide attempts of brother Cowper or Cooper.

I'm sorry and it's quite an amazing thing.

I don't know if you know that story I'm talking about where he intended to drown himself in the River Thames

and his he had his his horse

and buggy a driver take him to the Thames and there was a fog.

Do you know the story I'm talking about.

No I don't know.

Oh okay.

Well the the story was is that the the there was a heavy fog that night and then obviously

the buggy driver did not know the intention of William Cooper to drown himself in the Thames

and the fog got so thick that the the

buggy driver said that he would have to stop until the fog lifted.

So this was after they had been riding for quite some time and so they stopped in.

The fog lifted and he was right in front of his own house and

he took that as a providential sign from God that that he was

about to do something very evil in ending his own life because of this depression that he had.

But anyway I'm.

Sorry about that and his

introspective temperament and his proneness to melancholy.

A lot of people that are like that are very creative.

They

have and we're very

but in

order.

It's kind of

depression.

Yes walk up

to and.

And we're that

always found out that

I went through this in my own pilgrimage and I get contacted by a number of people.

Now if I was bringing

somebody with me to

think that I would ask

to give me

an act

clouded by

analyzes.

Can are you in fact

padded the unpardonable sin.

The way to get them out of that is to say that you're under this intense fear.

This agony to me in

that

regard is so many

times that I remember that the page number 651.

And he deals with what's called the sin of final obduracy.

The reason that it becomes unpardonable is because

in a

testimony of

people that

have

become atheists example of this is Dan Barker.

He

agitated it.

When somebody is in a real state of agony like the man in the iron cage is

we hold out hope for them because the Holy Spirit is.

Still can now just so to enlighten

our audience a little bit about what you are even referring to and when we are speaking on scenes from

the pilgrims progress it is believed that this is actually what a bug up autobiographical

of John Bunyan himself in his Christian pilgrimage and he uses allegories throughout

the book demonstrating the different things that he and that many

Christians confront when they are being drawn to God and I'm right

about that it.

Was an accurate yes yes.

So when we get to the man in the iron cage it could be two different people here if you read grace abounding to the

chief of sinners.

John Bunyan himself was frightened for a considerable length of time by that verse in

Hebrews Esau selling his birthright for a morsel of meat and when he sought

repentance it was not granted to him and Bunyan was under the deluge

committed that that the man in the iron cage he

may have been referring to the Italian lawyer Francis

mentioned that and grace abounding to the chief of sinners and that is one of the most remarkable and hard to explain cases

I.

Know in church history I was referring more to Christian the character Christian.

Wasn't that supposed to be autobiographical of.

Oh yeah oh for sure.

Especially when we burden on his back.

Much of that is auto sometimes about

things that he.

But what's interesting about that whole book.

It just seems that in our day you don't have cases of conscience as we call them

things that deeply.

We seem to be a lot more super wait to understand these

things with some of

the things.

And

somebody would

say that you had to go through

this prior to coming to Christ

but that's a lot

work.

And so Bunyan knew

that and bringing them to cry.

Through

ten months of this type of awakening Spurgeon even talks about coming to faith in

Christ.

And some people know very little of this in fact can't actually trace the time of their conversion.

They don't know at what time they actually pass from a state of being dead

and having life the other way.

Because you have all different scenarios involved in each

individual's journey to Christ.

Because although we are all saved in the same way by the same gospel

by the same Christ there are different background circumstances

where some are raised in godly homes with Christian parents some

are raised in homes that are very hostile to the gospel.

And then you have others who have.

I have met people who have a black and white testimony

where they are in utter darkness and they are saved in a light switch goes on and it's a

radical discovery of truth that they quickly immediately embrace.

When they have been regenerate.

When they have become regenerate.

But then you have others where it's appears to be a chipping away over

years sometimes decades of false belief and pride and things like

that where a person is very gradually brought to a point where they

finally bow the knee to Christ.

So you do have even though the gospel is the same and the Christ is the same and

what is not seen to men outside the

things that are going on inside the heart of man and with the sovereignty of God or

all may be the same in every case of salvation.

But as far as the external things that we witness and experience those things are.

Different.

Well and also I

think being totally it

is now putting.

Sometimes when people

say there's that may

have been the

day of and kill up

till September 18th 1986 that

may

be the day

here.

Even

though

they are

born

you

don't

see 81.

Tom you bet.

By the way Tom we're gonna be going to a station break soon.

I don't.

Know if your your phone battery is dying or something but you have two phones

here.

Okay because it has been breaking up so I'm not sure why I'm gonna get the other phone man.

Okay and if anybody would like to join us we do have a listener in Slovenia waiting to have his question asked for you.

In fact I will read his question and then go to the break and you can answer it when we return.

Okay.

All right all right.

His this is Joe in Slovenia.

He says thanks for having brother Sullivan today and reading the biblical narratives

church history and my own personal experience.

It seems that one of the most common and depressing things that we as believers can face is

betrayal by other believers or false confessors.

Amen to that Joe.

What are your thoughts and insights as it relates to our battle against oppression resulting from the

deep pain we all occasionally experience at the hand of others in the visible church.

What teaching from the Puritans is specifically applicable for us in this area of sanctification.

Thanks so much for your encouraging ministry to the body of Christ.

Okay I will have you answer that when we return from the break.

Tom.

And if anybody else would like to join us our email address is Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in.

Our guest today is Tom Sullivan.

He is with the voice in the wilderness radio and also Puritan audiobooks.

We are discussing Puritan helps for the spiritually depressed and asking the question have you

committed the unpardonable sin.

Our email address for questions is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Before the break Joe in Slovenia asked Tom in reading the biblical

narratives church history.

In my own personal experience it seems that one of the most common and depressing things that we as believers can face

is betrayal by other believers or false confessors.

What are your thoughts and insights as it relates to our battle against depression resulting from the deep pain we

all occasionally experience at the hand of others in the visible church.

What teaching from the Puritans is specifically applicable for us in this area of sanctification.

Thanks so much for your encouraging ministry in the body of Christ.

And Tom.

I'm sure that among those instances I'm not talking about Joe in Slovenia but other people who

have experienced the the pain of the betrayal of a Christian brother or sister

or at least a professing Christian brother or sister is divorce.

When you have a spouse that has been unfaithful or has done

something very horrible has has divorced you even though there was no biblical warrant for it etc.

But anyway if you could answer to you.

The best of your ability.

What Joe has to say.

One thing I really appreciate about you

that you get along with when I mentioned

voice and

the reason why

is because back

in 1984 I wanted to

know and so in fact I

didn't want to

come across like I'm really I

understand I don't read all aspects of Christian.

History Christian biography and so on and my Presbyterian co -host has something.

To say I was just gonna say we can talk now because I feel much better.

One of the reasons why I wanted to get that out there I said I'm not hearing.

From your co -host.

That's because Chris isn't he's in control of my mic.

I'll.

Believe me you definitely want me to keep him on mute until he has something.

Important to say.

But if you could answer that brothers question really we got it

comes without a doubt the

example that we is that of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And if anybody and I

have here on

my to bring up all of the looking

unto Jesus well

it's interesting that

you bring him up because he obviously has a classic on spiritual

depression.

Yes.

And in

we

have

to get you know

and they do.

Peacemaker what.

And one of the

things that's really shocked me is how many

of the people that I thought I was

fellowshipping

with my wedding

can

really

carry from.

That is why am I still one of the

reasons I narrate so much.

Chris what's kept me going for over 30 years is not what's going to benefit others

is what's going to benefit me first.

Keep my heart tender and so on.

And I know if I'm affected by and I can communicate that and the ways that I narrate.

It's going to help other people that are listening.

And we have a look by the way.

Thank you Joe.

In.

Slovenia for your excellent question.

We have a listener in White Plains New York RJ who says

you mentioned before about people who were really saved at an earlier

point but when they gained full assurance later on that is when they think they were

saved wrongly.

What about the more common thing today because of the rampant state of easy believism

where you have people thinking they're saved when they are 10 11 or 12 because they

raise their hand at Bible camp or went forward on an altar call but lived like the devil for years and

perhaps decades.

And then at some point when they think they really became sanctified or

closer to God or dedicated their lives to Christ is when they were really saved those

other years before that where they claimed Christ or professed to be Christian were

only a delusion.

That is probably he is probably.

Right about that being the more common thing today.

I would think

I'm a moderator for another group

and what I've

noticed recently

and they

probably went forward

in an altar call and so on

and now these people are

the things that the pure finding

what

Jonathan

Edwards treat your Christian practice now and

forget about those

things and

we don't

have to

now and to be are

what point of

John.

Those things that ever

thing I would point anyone to

has been changed from being an

empty to now if

there is

going to

manifest and people in

you to cry and the

reverend buzz.

Taylor my co -host is

something to say yes of.

Course a couple things here that just kind of enter my mind through what you just said.

I had a pastor a former pastor many years ago who used to always ask the question where in the scriptures do you see

where read dedication makes a bigger change in a person's life than regeneration

right.

You know.

And even first John you know everybody knows 513 where it says.

You know these things have been written to you who believe in the name of some guy that you may know you have eternal life.

And everybody interprets that is just that one sentence you know do you believe on the Lord Jesus.

But these things that are written are the whole book.

And he talks there about walking in the light instead of in darkness.

And that if we say we walk in the light and yet and if we say we're in the light walk in darkness we're lying.

And you know we if we don't love the brethren we can't say that we love God.

We were walking in darkness.

All these things that are throughout the book that tell us that just that mere professional sign is as the way

the questions worded and I understand exactly what our questioner was saying because so many

people the basis of their faith is what I did when I've got it signed right here in my Bible.

Or I got it signed here on the back of the track.

So I know I'm born again you know.

But yeah that brings up another really important distinction because there

is

in darkness of light

walking in darkness.

There is such a thing as a spiritual black night of the soul and so this is a

different thing because some people that are in fact Christians but they have that

the bunion talks about.

I want

to mention to your listeners is out of print because it's

unequaled in this area of anything I've ever seen.

It was written in 1755 and the authors were Samuel Pike and Samuel

Hayward.

Published into a paperback was 1967.

By from

beginning to end deals with some of these questions.

How about my worship.

How do the things I'm bringing forth in my worship or

you don't deal with.

Also mentioned archibald alexander

thoughts.

I'm gonna have to let that distinction.

Out there I'll have to let Mike gadosh of solid grand Christian books know about that book that if it's still

on the out -of -print you may want to bring that back into print.

I don't know if you're familiar with solid ground yeah.

I'm friends with a lot of times when he

does mention

things that are

out.

Oh yeah.

Well we were able as long before

the

any such

thing as a book out of print anymore because of

the print -on -demand service I can

bring up an

old

because that

link.

Yeah we have to

get a break

right now if

you'd like to join us

on.

The air.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

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Hi I'm.

Pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from

12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WL ie radio www

.wl ie 540 a .m. com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions our time will be lively useful and I assure you never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs

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Pastor tired of box store Christianity of doing

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for my now seeking the approval of man or of God.

Where am I trying to please man.

If I were still trying to please man I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi.

I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

then how men view these things.

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If you live near Norfolk Massachusetts or plan to visit our area please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

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Iron Shopper's Iron Radio.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than an hour to go is

Tom Sullivan.

He is with voice in the wilderness radio and we have been discussing

spiritual depression and the impartable sin.

And if you would like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail

dot com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Before I return to our discussion I have a couple of important announcements.

First of all the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology is

having a a conference coming up very soon.

In fact this is the last day that you can register for this conference.

This is being orchestrated by the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals and I

God willing I'm going to be manning a booth there an exhibitors booth so I hope that if you attend you

come up and greet me and help me pass out literature to promote Iron Shopper's Iron

Radio.

This is going to be held next week the 28th of April through the 30th of

April at Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr Pennsylvania.

The theme of the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology this year is recovering the essence of the gospel

and speakers include Richard Phillips Carl Truman and Daniel Doriani.

For more details on this conference go to Alliancenet .org Alliancenet

.org.

Click on events and then click on the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology.

Today is the last day of registration so if you intend to come and join me at this conference

please register today.

Also our friends at the Banner of Truth they are having a conference as

well that I hope that you will join me at now.

This path.

This is a pastors conference and I know that they do extend this beyond

pastors to other leaders in the church like deacons and so on.

But it is known as the US ministers conference that the Banner of Truth has.

This is being held Tuesday May 30th through Thursday June the 1st and God

willing I will be there as well.

I am already registered myself.

They are allowing me to come even though I am not an ordained minister.

I am doing a lot of promotion for their events and they are giving me

admission to this event and I'm very grateful to them Pat Daly and the folks at the

United States headquarters of the Banner of Truth.

The theme of the conference this year is the living and enduring word.

It's being held at the Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown Pennsylvania.

Once again that's Tuesday May 30th through Thursday June 1st.

Speakers include Joel Beeky Jeff Thomas William van der Waard Mark

Johnston Jonathan master Carlton Wynn and Ian Hamilton.

For more information go to banner of truth org.

Banner of truth org.

Click on events and then click on US ministers conference.

For those of you in my listening audience in the United Kingdom they also have UK ministers

conferences.

There's several of them that you can click on and if it makes more sense for you to attend one of those conferences

click on UK ministers conference instead.

But I will be God willing at the 2017 US ministers conference.

So I hope to see you there.

Go to banner of truth org banner of truth org.

And finally the iron sharpens iron radio is an urgent need of new

benefactors and advertisers.

If the Lord has financially blessed you above and beyond your ability to provide

for your church and for your home we would love to receive a donation of any amount from

you.

Go to iron sharpens iron radio dot com click on support.

At the top of the page there will be an address that given to you that you can

use to mail in checks made out to iron sharpens iron radio.

And as any of you will know who have listened to this program since 2006 and that would include our

guest Tom Sullivan.

You know if you listen to this program for years that I have gone many years without ever

once giving a public appeal for donations or for advertising.

But we have reached a point where we are in a very urgent

situation financially.

And my advertisers.

The advertisers that I currently have sponsoring our insurance iron are indeed the ones that have urged me

to go public with an appeal to you for donations or for new advertisers.

So please if you if you'd like to advertise whatever you do whether you are a business owner a

professional person like a doctor dentist lawyer chiropractor perhaps your pastor perhaps

your leader in a parachurch organization or perhaps you are having a special event that you want to advertise

email me at Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And of course go to iron sharpens iron radio .com and click on support.

If you would like to donate to iron sharpens iron radio we have returned to

the program now and our discussion of spiritual depression and the

hello Tom are you there Tom.

I think we lost our guest.

Well hopefully our guest will be calling us back very soon.

I don't know what happened there but our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

If you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own Chris Arnson at gmail

.com chris arnz n at gmail .com.

And please give us your first name your city and state in your country of

residence.

If you live outside of the good old USA I may have to go to another station break.

Unfortunately because we have lost our guest I'm not sure what happened there but if you

will be patient with us God willing we will be back very soon.

So don't go away.

We will be right back God willing right after.

These messages Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said

give yourself unto reading.

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He who never quotes will never be quoted.

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Well I.

Believe we may have Tom Sullivan back online.

You're back online.

Okay.

Well Tom we have a listener in Eastern Suffolk County Long Island Ronald who wants to know.

Could you please I he says.

I apologize if I've missed this already.

But could you please give us a brief definition of what spiritual depression.

Actually

is and

it's

now the largest collection of reformed and Puritan works unique names

in the world on indwelling

sin the mortification on and on.

So it's a good site to go to.

You know to define spiritual depression

is goodness

faithfulness meekness and self -control the moment that we are

the moment that we're not bringing forth walk

amen and I hope

that to many

of our

listeners.

Take advantage of your resources in your audio books by the way.

But is there anything else under the umbrella of spiritual depression that you could or mention that we could

include as signs symptoms and explanations.

Well I would.

Recommend the old 18 to

25 that which I would I do not but the evil that I hate that I do.

If then I do that which I would not it is no longer eyes that do old wretched

man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this used to

be the

founder

I know who might

be in confident of this very form

it until the date therefore being

justified.

So in summary spiritual depression would be.

Very connected to a morbid introspection and constant fear that

you are either never were saved to begin with or that you wrongly believe

that you have lost salvation or perhaps you believe that you are reprobate or something like

that.

I'm assuming that there's

another whole

ass is not in praying

to him.

But they haven't seemed like

they're so.

They use

the term to

manifest

for a while walking in

darkness.

That's a different kind of spiritual depression that person in that state may not

we may know.

It isn't because of you know he's examined his

hearts.

I'm not

living in any

sin.

He's not care

along the scene changes.

And that he sees that he's in a warfare.

He sees that he's in a battle and those former frames that he

was to even when it seems dark when it seems like

mid that in the scriptures of human and psalm 88.

But he knows

that God is his father.

He's never stopped calling upon God.

And would be if a purse

that would not be a good

in that dark.

Now we

believe as theologically reformed.

Christians that a true Christian cannot become an apostate.

Our belief in the perseverance and preservation of the Saints and I've been in fact all of the five

points of Calvinism would lead one to the conclusion that a true Christian could not

apostatize.

But could a true Christian have a very brief at least

period of of questioning the existence of God or questioning the gospel

questioning the veracity and reliability of the New Testament and that kind of a.

Testimony of people like John.

And then it

was

life and and

then they

had at

an iron Judson went through a time when he walked

everybody out of his life and dug a grave and he would lie down in

it

and just

contemplate

that we

know that

he is a and when God in that

solid.

We have a listener and BB in Cumberland.

County Pennsylvania.

Who wants to know do you believe a true Christian can commit.

Suicide

with

the

idea that

I can tell

BB that

if you go

to the

archive

of.

Ironsharpensironradio .com.

And you type in the name shishko SHI SHKL that's

SSN Sam HI SSN Sam HKO shishko.

Bill shishko or William shishko is the pastor's name.

And he did a two -hour program with me.

I think it was two hours.

If it wasn't too it was at least one on the Christian and suicide.

And basically pastor shishko was saying that a Christian can

commit any sin such as even self -murder.

Especially when you add into the mix the fact that there are all kinds of prescription drugs

that have negative side effects that you can even see on the TV on the television commercials

that some of these side effects include desire to commit suicide or may

induce suicide attempts or something like that.

I could.

Show another

one of the

reasons.

Unimaginable

but right we

are left

in a.

Dilemma because on the one hand you don't want to give people false hope people that

are in such physical or mental agony that they believe I will be in in heaven in an

instant if I kill myself.

Because that person may be a false convert.

They may have been deceived into believing that they are Christians.

And you know so we don't know with infallible knowledge with

infallible certainty that a person is regenerate.

And such comfort should never be given to someone.

But at the same time you want to comfort the surviving family members of someone who did

who did commit suicide if they were a professing Christian.

You don't want them to automatically think that person that they loved is certainly in hell and

for eternity in torment.

Because there are so many different circumstances involved where as I was even saying

before a person could be taking a prescription drug and in fact some of the

antidepressants are notorious if you switch medications that may lead to

suicidal thoughts.

And there's all kinds of weird things going on there.

And of course some of us most of us have never experienced

excruciating pain and agony to the level of some people who just couldn't take it anymore and believe

me I'm not advocating their suicide at all.

Because like I said people may think that they're saved and they may open their eyes in hell.

But but it's one of those dilemmas because you have such very little said about it in the scriptures.

Right.

You have Judas killing himself and who fell on

his sword.

Was that in the Old Testament I can't all right right right.

So you don't have a lot of you don't have a lot of you know examples and you don't have any of a person that

is believed to be regenerate doing it.

Right.

But anyway I'm gonna read you a another question before we go to our final

break and then we could have you answer it when we return from the

break.

We have Christian in Cumberland County Pennsylvania says I'm

sorry if I tuned in too late but I haven't heard yet a definition of the impardonable sin.

Can you please define that.

And we will have Tom Sullivan answer your question when we return from our very last break here

once again our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside of the USA don't go away.

We'll be right back.

After these messages Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of

man or of God or am I trying to please man.

If I were still trying to please man I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi.

I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity but since that wasn't the Apostles priority it must not be ours either.

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk Massachusetts or plan to visit our area please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750 that's 508 -528

-5750 or go to our website to email us.

Listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our TV program entitled resting in grace you can find

us at Providence Baptist Church ma .org that's providencebaptistchurchma .org or

even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid ground Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish God -centered Christ exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com that's solid

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Hi I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE radio

www .wlie540am .com we

bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study.

By calling in with your questions our time will be lively useful and I assure you never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs

a.

Pastor welcome back.

And that was indeed the very same Bill Shishko that I was mentioning just a few moments ago before the break

who did an excellent interview with me on iron sharpens iron radio on suicide and the Christian

and so go to the archive if you're interested in hearing more about that at iron sharpens iron radio

dot com iron sharpens iron radio dot com and type in the search engine

S's and Sam HI S's and Sam HKO.

Shishko and pastor William Shishko or pastor Bill Shishko's name will come up

and you can find the interview on suicide and before the break Tom

Sullivan our listener Christian in Pennsylvania asked you

for a definition of the impardonable sin or.

Unpardonable

sin.

Amazon Kindle.

And I'm going to read it and then I'm going to explain it.

The sin against the Holy Spirit is not to be regarded simply as an isolated

act.

In other words it isn't just one sin that you've committed.

And that's it pull the rug out from underneath that person that person is

finally set against God that no power which God can consistently use will

ever save it.

And I'll explain that in a minute that this sin therefore can be only the culmination of

a long course of self -hardening and self -depraving.

He who has committed it must be either profoundly indifferent to his own condition or

actively and bitterly hostile to God.

So that anxiety or fear on account of one's condition is evidence that is not been committed.

The sin against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven simply because of souls that is committed.

It has ceased to be receptive of divine influences even when those influences are

exerted in the utmost strength which God has seen fit to employ in a spiritual administration

term called the common

influences

in the

general administration.

And God

for

whatever reason in his own divine sovereignty who shall you come.

And no further.

And there is a line that can be crossed in this life where God says I will not

no longer strive with which

is out position

of the soul.

The

warning that we learn from this is it's

never said when

somebody said on the way we don't know for each

individual person when that point very fact strong is

saying that a person is worried about it and anxious about.

It would mean that the Holy Spirit has not yeah

one thing.

I'm sure you would agree.

Any of our listeners can be certain of in this regard is that if they

love the Lord are following the Lord are living a life of repentance although

nobody on this earth is living a perfectly sinless life.

But when your sin grieves you you cry out to the Lord for forgiveness

and you cry out to the Lord for strength to press on in a repentant

life in a restored life.

Those people do not have to worry about waking up in eternity and be standing before

the judge who will say to them because of the sin that you

committed years ago you are not welcome here.

Doesn't matter how many times you cried out to me for mercy and how many times you repented.

This thing that you've done was so wicked that you are going to be entering into the gates of

hell where there is no ceasing of weeping and gnashing of teeth and so

on.

And there are there are people who think that there are some people who don't even want to

make an effort to visit a church because they think

in their heads look.

I've been a prostitute I've been a crack addict.

I have been a rapist.

I have murdered people I have been a child molester.

You could go on and on and on with the evil depravity of man and the things that

men and women have done and they think God can never forgive me.

So I'm not even going to show up at a church service.

But this is is clearly not the case at all.

In fact as you know Tom I closed my program every day with a quote from Christopher

Love that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner Jesus Christ.

His death was so perfect that it will cleanse any sin no

matter how dark and sinister and satanic if the person is covered by the blood of Christ.

Am I.

Am I right.

Right.

I.

Do want to mention

there was an author in the

mid -1800s named

George

command of the English language

no matter how it has

been and

that's why

I came when people were

really sometimes spiritual.

Deeper in a bygone day.

Yeah I think one.

Of those reasons as I said before is that the gospel of easy believism the false gospel of

easy believism and cheap grace was not so rampant as it is today.

That may be one of the reasons but buzz Taylor before we get too far away.

From your listeners question I feel compelled to share that one thing we can be

assured that the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not it is not being

critical of modern -day manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

Yeah right that's some extreme Pentecostals but because some people may hear it in that context like you know if you don't

believe that this is of God well you just you're committing the unpardonable sin you're blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

You know we.

Do not need to worry about that.

And once and one other thing that as it applies to Calvinism Tom I'm sure you

have heard of either those who are Arminian or

outside of the orbit of of Calvinism and perhaps they are

have just begun to learn about election.

I can remember years ago when I worked for WMCA 570 a .m. radio in

New York and after our talk show host Andy Anderson went home to be with

the Lord.

I was asked to be the temporary host of that program for at least two weeks

before they found a permanent replacement.

And I can remember that a person in the listening audience who always

went by the alias E the letter E as in Edward I don't know why he always just went by E

but he used to call in.

It was a call -in show and almost every time he called in well at least a quite a number of times

he called in.

Even during times that I filled in.

For Andy Anderson when he was on vacation or sick he would ask the question

I am very worried that I am NOT of the elect.

I've heard about this teaching of unconditional election and I am terrified that

I am going to face Christ as my judge.

And he will tell me that I am NOT of the elect.

And I would ask this person do you love Jesus Christ.

Oh yes.

Have you repented.

Have you believed upon him.

And have you believe in his sacrifice and Calvary as the only

way for atonement or redemption for sinners.

Do you believe he was our substitute on that cross and and that that he rose again and

ascended and seated at the right hand of the Father.

And you know he would say yes to all these things and he said he's a member of a church and that he but he's just

was terrified of this concept of election and he and he viewed it almost as like a lottery system

that you know you could be a a godly

repentant follower of Christ and then wind up standing before Christ as your judge.

And he looks through his file and he says wait a minute.

You're not one of the elect.

I'm sorry you're going to hell.

I mean this scenario will never happen.

Am i right.

Right.

Well you know.

But one

thing that I

tried to

do that in

your mind all you can do is think of God's

eat and that's not you could seen on this eternal

decree your business right now you and you need

to run to him and bring him and cling to him and

put.

Right.

In fact Bill Shishko who I brought up earlier he along with

our co -host Reverend Buzz Taylor was a student at Bob Jones

University.

Bill was there and I believe the early 70s and perhaps

even late 60s but early 70s for sure.

He said that there was a controversial

incident on the campus of Bob Jones University that caused the leadership at that time to

strongly crack down and enforce restrictions against all

students that claim to be Calvinist with the threat of expulsion if

they publicly proselytized their views because a

student who was a professing Calvinist committed suicide for this very reason of fear

that he was not of the elect which is when you think about it it's very ironic.

You would I would think that you would want to stay alive at all costs but but

this is not something that we who are reformed promote at all this idea that you can't

ever have any kind of assurance that you're one of the elect until you face

Christ on Judgment Day and none of the great heroes of our faith ever taught this.

I mean I want to make it clear to the either the Armenian or the anti Calvinist out there who thinks

that is the logical fruit of a of a reformed soteriology.

And that is nothing to be farther from the truth am.

I right.

Well you know let's take the manner of prayer as well.

When God gives us a storm the

gates ahead the

Holy Spirit could change the mind of

God.

We

know

theologically will not let you go until

you glorify your name in this manner or you pre

and that he is

that God is a man.

Well I want

to make sure.

That you have applied what we are discussing in every way that you intended to to the

narrative of pilgrims progress before we run out of time is.

There anything further that you wanted to say.

Let's talk about a couple of other things.

You have the Christian and the castle of and then you have the

queue I

have

narrated and

it's amazing.

Friday night book on the Christian warfare that presently

isn't in 60

to 70 pages of this work deal

continually

likes to throw that

in a

Christian and

he

says

the

God

military

does

not

in you.

You have to look outside of yourself

just lay in

hold of Christ one person said.

I think it's the trials God sends in our way

providentially then sometimes.

And

one book that

I want to recommend to our listeners which I first learned of.

When I interviewed my co -hosts Reverend

Buzz Taylor's co -pastor over at Carlisle Reform

Presbyterian Church Deckard Stevens.

Deckard Stevens also has been a my program when he discusses

his trial and triumph over cancer and he was very

much blessed by the book conflict and triumph first published

in 1874 that was written by William Henry

Green and I don't know if you've ever done a voice over for that book but that is a banner of truth book

that I strongly recommend.

In fact you could go to iron sharpens iron radio dot com and type in D E

C H E R D and then Stevens S T E V E N S

Deckard Stevens and you'll find my interview with him on his trial with cancer

and how William Henry Green's book conflict and triumph helped him through that the

trial.

You can also go to banner of truth dot org and find the book if you'd like to purchase it banner of truth dot org.

Or you could go to one of our sponsors websites that's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service

CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible Book Service dot com CV BBS

dot com and the

we have another listener that we have time to ask his question.

We let's see.

We have Jim in Port Washington Long Island New

York who asks do you think it is an unhealthy sign for a Christian to always

leave church happy and uplifted.

Does that mean that perhaps he is not hearing the whole counsel of God or is not aware of his own

sin.

You know I can't.

Forbid

that person

and so I

can't really

you know

pass any kind of a judgment on him but I and

they don't seem to know the experience.

You know I

couldn't

yeah.

That some reason you just reminded me of one of my high school friends who

was a Missouri Synod Lutheran and this is not any kind of a disparaging remark about my Lutheran brethren

but he when we were in in our 20s when he found out that I

became a born -again believer he said to me now you don't think I'm a sinner or

something do you.

And I said well that's your first problem.

If you don't think that you're a sinner you're in bigger trouble than I may have.

Imagined because I had yeah I had a cousin

down.

That free method is a second

blood don't sin

anymore and that's where

I from me and I was fear.

You remember this.

Yes reach forward with the foot.

Yes crushed their foot.

A person got really upset and Spurgeon said well there goes your perfect living

after he.

Blurted out something unfortunate or something.

Yeah probably.

The well one thing that I think could be extracted from that last

listener question comment is that if someone

criticizes the congregation where you worship if they visit you visit where

you're worshiping and they say to you well you know I know that that's not a church I want to go to

because where I go to church my pastor never says anything that makes us sad

or brings us down.

We're always walking on a cloud.

When we leave that place he always lifts our spirits and makes us happy.

That that to me is a sign.

You know I mean Joel Osteen is a perfect example.

I don't think that you can preach the whole counsel of God if you have a beaming

ear -to -ear toothy grin the entire time you're speaking.

I mean that's.

Impossible through the second beat.

Attitude right in your morning you're gonna hunger

right now.

Of course I'm not a I'm not advocating the other extreme.

Either way you may have a right church that always is has the atmosphere of a funeral service.

I mean if we have been rescued from sin death and damnation we have a lot to be

rejoiceful to be rejoicing about and to be happy about.

But I mean it's it's really the emotions will be reflected accordingly according to

the full counsel of the whole council of God being preached right when I live.

In a tree in the old

yes and then dr. Beakie

brought in yes.

And some people never

forgave them for

date of morbidity.

Introspect the other extreme that you're.

Talking about yes I've interviewed dr. Beakie on his doctoral dissertation and in fact if you go to Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service CV BBS comm CV BBS comm you can order

that book on assurance.

Ask for dr. Joel Beakie be as a boy EE ke s for his book on

assurance and they can either find it in their inventory or order it for you.

But we're out of time right now and I know that a voice in the wilderness radio can be found at

wilderness radio .com wilderness radio .com and Puritan audiobooks

can be found at Puritan audiobooks net Puritan audiobooks net.

Tom it's been a great pleasure having you on the program today.

Really enjoy.

It's a pleasure to get to know you a little bit more personally.

Chris yes you too brother and I want to thank my co -host Reverend buzz Taylor for being in studio.

Thank you and I want to thank everybody who listened especially those who took the time to write in questions today.

And don't forget about today being the last day to register for the Philadelphia Conference

on Reform Theology at the Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr Pennsylvania.

Go to Alliance net org Alliance net org to register.

I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than

you are a sinner.