Arrested for Speaking Against LGTB and Creation Science | Apologetics Live 0034

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00:06

This is Apologetics Live with Matt Slick and Andrew Rappaport, part of the

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Christian Podcast Community. All right, we are live.

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Apologetics Live here to answer your questions, anything that you have on the plate today.

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We do have one question that did come in already. We'll get to that in a little bit. Sorry for the delay, folks.

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Technology is what it is. Technology is a wonderful thing when it works.

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So we're starting a little bit late. Weird, weird stuff that Matt was having some issues with.

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It seems that if you use Chrome versus Internet Explorer, he was able to hear

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Everybody But Me, which Anthony Silvestro, who's here, loved that idea, that everyone else could be heard but me.

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Anthony was saying before we went live, if there was a way Matt could sell that feature, he would be a multi -millionaire.

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But unfortunately, he hasn't figured out what went wrong and how he did that. So I guess,

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Matt, no luck today. You're still going to be broke. Well, the only way for me to become a multi -millionaire by having people silence you is to promote you so they could silence you.

01:43

Actually, for those who weren't watching live, Matt Slick's sitting there with a cup of tea. He's moving his hands so quickly,

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I thought the tea was going to spill over. It's actually coffee. And I'm thinking, on this white shirt, we're going to show up.

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Yeah. Oh man. Oh, the day you had. So let's start off. I think

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I went to bed about five o 'clock this morning, got up at 7 30. And when I went to bed, you were on your way somewhere.

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Yeah, I got up about actually 20 to 6. My wife had another back surgery. It's her third, actually technically, it's her fourth back surgery she's had.

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And it's the third one within the past couple of months. Now I'm hearing my feedback. Okay.

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Surgery went well, and she got a little gripey, which is normal, you know, and got her something to eat and all that kind of stuff.

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And she's doing much better right now. But poor girl, you know, she's just going through it.

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So thanks for all of your prayers for all the people who lift her up in prayer. She really is struggling emotionally because of it.

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It's a depressing thing to have to deal with constant problems and stuff.

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And in fact, Andrew, you haven't seen her physically in months and months. You'll notice a significant difference when you do see her again.

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Well, I saw it in the picture. You know, the thing I said that I, you sent me the picture of her in the hospital bed.

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And I said to my wife, it's amazing. She's still trying to smile. Like you could see her smiling.

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And I'm like, I know she's in pain, but you could see she's trying. And it's like,

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I just don't know how I, you know, I remember reading R .C. Sproul had a book on suffering and he had some that he talked about a vocation of suffering that some people just can suffer for God's glory where others would.

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I mean, I probably would cave. I mean, I had a, you know, something strange coming back from the

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Philippines where I just had an abdominal pain and a flu. We didn't know if I got some something while I was over in the

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Philippines. And I'm like sitting there upset because I can't sleep for a couple of nights.

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And what she goes through is like, I don't know if I can do it. You know, there are a lot of people who are worse than she, but, you know, she's, she's a good woman and, and, but it's a lot to bear.

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And yeah, I'm emotionally, mentally adjusted to just the rest of our lives.

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I'll be taking care of her and, instead of, you know, she can drive. And so, you know, if, if her normal health is here and complete invalid is here where,

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I mean, she needed a walker to go three feet to go to the bathroom and I was in constant pain and, you know, on painkillers just to get through the day.

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She's about here now. She's only elevated this much. So she's got that much to go out of, you know, that whole thing.

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So if, if 10 is you're, you're doing great. And one is you're basically wiped. You can't do hardly anything.

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She's about a three and a four. We're hoping she'd get to a five. Yeah. Well, actually, you know, five minutes in and we didn't even introduce ourselves.

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That's right. All right. So I'm Andrew Rappaport from Striving for Eternity. And with us is our resident apologist here,

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Matt Slick from karm .org. And yeah, so we're, I guess this is just going to be an off day.

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It's been a crazy day for, for both of us, little sleep for both of us, but we have

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Anthony Silvestro here, Dr. Anthony Silvestro. He'll, we'll just make him carry all the weight for us. Sound good?

05:19

Yeah. Well, there's not much that you and I can carry anyway, so he's got it made. Yeah. Make him carry the, that five pound bag, you know.

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All right. Yeah. So I actually, I did do some calculations by the way, Matt, I do have to correct the record.

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There's very few times I have things I could brag over you. And I, I, I realized there's something we were talking last week about the, the number of times

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I spoke in the Philippines. So actually three times on, on let's see, was it

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Thursday? Three, three messages Thursday, two on Friday, two on Saturday, three on Sunday.

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So in four days, I did what you did on the cruise in seven. Now, if we give you say, okay, the effort, we will not count the departure date and starting date of that.

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So we get you down to six. I still have you beat on that. Just, just for the record, I got 10 in, in four days.

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Except there's a big difference between your teaching and my teaching. Mine is good. Exactly what

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I was going to say. You read my mind. Mine's good. Hey, listen, uh, uh, Jason Manning gave a, a super chat says,

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Jesus is Lord. Praise Jesus of $2. So thank you for that, Jason. As I always try to say that folks who give to the super chat, you could do that just by hitting that dollar sign in the chat window.

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That money goes to karm .org. Uh, the agreement, the way we've worked out the show with, with karm, we do it on karm videos because they can, they can monetize and all the money goes to them for the advertising and the, uh, you know, for the super chats.

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So, um, anything that comes in from there that will go to karm. If you want to help support the show, striving for eternity is actually the one who puts on the show.

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Uh, you can go to strivingforeternity .org slash donate. And that's where you could donate to, uh, striving for eternity if you want to do that.

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So with that, Matt, um, we did get a question. I know we got a bunch of folks in here and we got a question that came in and I was hoping, uh,

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Cody would come in here, but he wanted to, uh, have us address a clip from stand to reason, stand to reason is

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Greg Cockel. Uh, he was asked the question about women, uh, really women preaching.

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And so we, Oh, it's a 10 minute clip. So folks for you understand

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Matt because of his day could not listen to this beforehand. We're going to play the full clip so he can hear it.

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And that way he and I could respond. All right. So play that now.

08:09

Uh, let's see. Mosery. Let's go there to Mason from Monette, Missouri.

08:16

Wow. A lot of Ms in there, Mason. Thank you. Uh, well, Greg, first of all, uh,

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I'm really new at your program. About two months ago, I've discovered you and I've been kind of eating up everything that you guys got.

08:28

Oh, that's sweet. Thank you. No problem. So thank you for everything you guys have. Uh, well, I did want to ask last week, you had a gentleman on your segment, towards the end.

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Uh, and you talked about, uh, women being pastors and you had mentioned first Timothy three, and that was the qualifications for overseers and beacons.

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Uh, but you'd also mentioned first Timothy two, and you said you wouldn't go into it about what you really felt that really, you felt like, yeah, you felt like that had meant something else.

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But I wanted to know what was it? Yeah. You said at the time you couldn't expand on it.

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I wanted to know if you could expand on that. I like, I like to get your take on that, if you don't mind. No, of course. Uh, I'd be glad to do that.

09:10

Uh, so this is first Timothy chapter two. Um, this is a passage that is frequently, uh, pressed into service to limit, um, women's involvement in, in leadership roles in the church.

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And I'm just going to read it now out of the New American Standard. Okay. And, um, here is the way the passage, relevant passage, uh, reads.

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I'm starting in, in verse 11. Okay. Uh, let me start in verse nine, because there's a change that you need to notice.

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Like he says in verse eight, I want men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without wrath and dissension.

09:50

Good. Likewise, I want women, not a group, right. To adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly, discreetly, not with braided hair and gold pearls, costly garments, but rather with good works.

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Okay. Verse 11. A woman. That's the way the next verse starts.

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A woman. Now he's not talking about the group. He's talking about a definite article.

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A woman. All right. Let's keep reading. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness, but I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

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Okay. For as Adam, who was first created, then Eve, and it was not Adam was deceived, but Eve, blah, blah, blah.

10:45

Okay. So there's more there, but I just want to focus on this passage. Okay. Now, this is the passage that is meant to be the proof text for women not being in pastoral roles.

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Actually, sometimes they're in pastoral roles, but they're not called pastors. It seems to me it doesn't matter what they're called.

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It matters what they do. Yeah. Okay. Well, it says here, well, really what's going on is it doesn't say that a woman shouldn't teach at all, but this phrase exercise authority over a man has a suggestion of usurping authority.

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So as long as the woman pastor is under a male pastor, then that makes it okay for her.

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See, what happens is people, they look at this, they don't want to say, okay, no woman says anything in the church, because that's kind of what it says.

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It's, I mean, at the kind of a bare reading, that's what it seems. They don't want to say that. So then they find all the kind of little nuances that, and in my view, they got one foot on the pier and one foot in the boat, and they're rocking back and forth.

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They're going to fall into the drink. This is untenable kind of way of dealing with it, and it's not necessary, because there's a very simple solution to this.

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The Greek word translated woman is gune, like g -u -n -e, right?

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The Greek word translated man is aner, a -n -e -r, and that's what they are in the passage.

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Gune woman, aner man. By the way, that's not the only way to translate gune and aner.

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Gune is also the Greek word for wife. I noticed that aner is the

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Greek word for husband. Well, how do you know when it's the gune and aner, whether you translate it woman or wife or aner, you know, which way, which way they go?

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Gune for woman, or how do you know what to do? And the answer is, it's always the context. When you look at all the other passages, and I've done this, where these words appear, when it's clear that the two are not involved with each other intimately, personally, then they're translated man and woman.

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But there are a couple of exceptions, only two that I can think of, and when they're together in kind of an intimate kind of situation, well, they're translated husband and wife, because it seems like the context calls for that.

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This chapter is one of the exceptions. Now, I want you to think now about the language.

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I'm going to read the passage over again, because what it says of a woman is that she must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.

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Verse 11, okay? Verse 12, remain quiet.

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Man talks with authority, not you. Are you married?

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Man, okay. If on this reading, your wife has to be entirely submissive to me.

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She's a woman, I'm a man. She must receive my instruction with entire submissiveness on this reading of this passage.

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Whoops, that does not sound quite right, does it? In fact, on this reading, it seems to me that every woman in the body of Christ has to be responsive to his submissive to every man.

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That's ludicrous. And given the fact that this is an oner and a gune, together with the gune, receiving instruction with entire submissiveness to the oner, gee, that seems to be more appropriate to translate that husband and wife.

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So it would say, I want the women to adorn themselves, the men to pray, the women to adorn themselves, but when it comes to a woman, a wife, she must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness, for I do not allow a woman to usurp the authority or exercise authority over a husband.

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But to remain quiet before Adam was created first, and then Eve. It makes perfect sense.

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There's not a speed bump in the entire thing when you translate it that way. Still with me?

15:23

Yes, sorry, I'm just waiting, just listening. Yeah, so what this means is this passage has nothing to do, no application at all, to church leadership, as people have tried to employ it in awkward, convoluted ways.

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It's not even speaking to that. It's speaking to the relationship of a husband and a wife in terms of spiritual leadership.

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And by the way, this does not prohibit a wife from teaching her husband something, but rather that she not be the teacher, okay?

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So, I mean, there's something in the Greek here that indicates that she can have moments of instructing about something, but she's not the teacher.

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The husband is the teacher. That's the Jewish tradition. That's the Christian New Testament tradition.

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It means no speed bumps. It's perfectly consistent. And if you want to say, well, it was

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Adam first and not Eve, that's not just Adam the first man and Eve the first woman, but it was

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Adam the first husband and Eve the first wife. So, the parallel is not destroyed, if you understand it in that way.

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And by the way, the only other passage I found where the pattern of translation was not followed consistently, when

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Oner and Gunner are together in clearly an interactive relationship, is in the

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Corinthians, 1 Corinthians 10, where it says that man is the head of woman, and Christ is the head of man, and God is the head of Christ.

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You know that passage? Yes. Yeah, well, it's the same situation there. It's Oner and Gunner.

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And I don't, you know, I don't think that Paul is teaching that every man is the head of every woman. That means your wife is under me, and my wife is under you.

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I think it's saying that there's a pattern of leadership in the family, and the husband is the head of the wife, accountable to Christ, who is the head of the church, and Christ is submissive to the

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Father. Okay? And that, again, no speed bumps there. Thank you.

17:35

That's a really interesting take on that. Not really. I've noticed that about it recently. I've got kind of a relative who's going to a church, a local church, that has a woman as a pastor, and so I've just been kind of questioning that, and his mindset was really, well,

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I don't really want to question her call. Oh, yeah, that, oh, don't even get me started questioning her call.

17:57

Well, this is the very question, whether she has a call or not. Just the question is whether it's biblical. Now, I would not discount, if this woman is the head pastor, is she a head pastor or just part of the pastoral staff?

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She's a co -pastor. She's the one who founded it, and then she kind of brought somebody up. Then she is a de facto elder.

18:16

Yes. Yes. Chapter three says no, no, no on that. Okay. That's what

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I figured. Yeah, that's my take. That's talked about last week, but chapter two, some people would invoke that.

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I don't think it's fair to invoke that. It's not related to that. So, on my view then, women cannot be head pastors or elders because a head pastor is an elder or even an associate pastor in an elder role, in a de facto elder role, but as long as she's under the leadership of the rest of the group, then she can do all kinds of functions in the church.

18:48

I don't see any restriction at all. What about teaching men? Where does it say that a woman can't teach a man?

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Only if she can't be the teacher of her husband. That's all in chapter two. So, I think that sometimes this is an equation where the translation has been influenced a little bit by bias, and that's why it doesn't say husband or wife.

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I've been holding this view for years. I've never heard anybody give me anything like a fair refutation, especially when

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I'm looking at the context, and it just says, you know, a woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.

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What relationship is that in the church? Minimally, I mean, that's the, if at all, if anything, it's the marital relationship, but, you know, as testified by Ephesians 5 and Titus 2 and other passages, chapter 3, the same thing.

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So, I think this is in that category. All right. So, first off, before Matt responds, we want to give a quick shout out.

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Someone gave a $20 super chat, said, God bless you, Matt and Andrew, just before we got started.

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So, sorry about that. And I think it's NavTimer1884. Thank you very much for the $20 donation to CARM .org.

20:02

We appreciate that. Matt, there's a lot of things that I noticed in here, and I will say up front that I do know

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Greg Coco personally. I like him as a teacher. There are some areas he and I disagree. This is going to be one of them.

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It seems he makes a distinction, Matt, between being a head pastor versus a pastor under a male pastor.

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So, it seems like he's okay with a female pastor under a man and that she can teach according to that verse.

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What say you? Well, I didn't get that out of what he said the very last segment. I was on the same thing.

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I'm like, wait a minute, is he going to say it's okay for that? And then I think he said, associate pastor is not okay for her to be associate pastor.

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No, he was saying that she could be an associate pastor under the head pastor, because he asked the question to the gentleman.

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We should play that again. We should play that last minute just to verify, because it's important.

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That's what he talked about last week. But chapter two, some people would invoke that.

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I don't think it's fair to invoke that. It's not related to that. So, on my view then, women cannot be head pastors or elders, because a head pastor is an elder.

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Okay, so there's the head pastor or elder. And now we get the question of, is this woman a head pastor?

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An associate pastor in an elder role, in a de facto elder role. Okay, get back to that, because I wanted to hear what he said the whole flow.

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Just back up to 15 seconds. Okay, so there's the head pastor or elder.

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And now we get the question of, is this woman a head pastor or an associate pastor in an elder role?

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Okay, get back to that, because I wanted to hear what he said the whole flow. Okay, so there's the head pastor or elder. Okay, so there's the head pastor or elder.

21:56

Okay, so there's the head pastor or elder. Okay, so there's the head pastor or elder. Okay, so there's the head pastor or elder. Okay, so there's the head pastor or elder. Okay, so there's the head pastor or elder. Okay, so there's the head pastor or elder.

22:01

What about teaching men? Where does it say that a woman can't teach a man? Only if she can't be the teacher of her husband.

22:08

That's all in chapter two. I think that sometimes this is an occasion where ...

22:16

okay yeah so he did say what I thought but he's contradicting himself and you know being a radio guy myself.

22:23

I understand. We can certainly say things and then you readers later. Later, you go, I should have said it better, and and you know that's fine.

22:29

and I've talked to Greg Cook on the radio before too. He's a great guy, but he did say women cannot be pastor, head pastors or elders.

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And he said, cannot be the associate pastor, or he said, or even an associate pastor in an elder role.

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Yeah. So he's saying no, no head pastor, no associate pastor.

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And he says in an elder role, that's really interesting because by definition, any pastor is an elderly, 1

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Timothy 5, 17, which we can talk about, that shows that that is the case. But then he says,

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I don't see, other than that, I don't see any restrictions at all. Well, wait a minute, he's refuting himself because if there's no restrictions at all, then they could be a pastor.

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But he said, there are no, it can't be pastors, but there's no restrictions at all. So he's not, you know, he just misspoke with the asking about the clarification on that.

23:27

And he said only that she cannot be the teacher of her husband. So as far as that whole exegesis of that,

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I don't really have a problem with that. That whole exegesis, that it's just about a woman and a man or husband and a wife.

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I mean, I could leave that alone and say, fine, that wouldn't have any bearing on the issue of whether or not women could be pastors and elders because Titus chapter one, 1

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Timothy three, clearly negates it. Hold on a second. He even said in chapter three of Timothy, that would negate it because of the fact that can't be a husband and one wife.

23:59

If you're a woman, although nowadays, yep, okay. Yeah, yeah, we know. You play games with the words and then they need to go.

24:06

It sounded like he was saying that this family member of the caller had a founding pastor who was a woman.

24:16

And it sounded like he was saying it was okay in that case because there was a man over her.

24:22

I didn't quite get that, but that's something we got to ask him. If he does say that it's okay, I don't think he did, but if he did say or intend to say that it was okay, if she was under another pastor, then he's wrong.

24:34

I don't think he was saying that, but let me go through my notes a little bit. Now, let me say this.

24:39

There's one thing I picked up on. He was saying there's a definite article because he was saying when he read through it,

24:47

I desire that in every place the man, and he said, that's a definite article. Then he kept going through and he kept referring to, in verse 12, a woman.

24:57

He was saying that was a definite article. So as he went through, he was talking about the definite articles and they aren't actually definite articles in the

25:04

Greek. They might seem that way in English. The only definite articles that we have in this pericope, and a pericope is just a section of scripture, verse eight, when it says the man should pray, man is a definite article there.

25:18

The only other definite article is in verse 14, where it says, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman, the word woman there is a definite article.

25:28

Those are the only definite articles there. Sorry, but we got it a little bit.

25:35

The definite article in Greek is the word the. That's just, that's all it is. The definite article is the word the.

25:42

Yeah, yeah, the, the, yeah. This is the, and there is no indefinite article.

25:48

I noticed what he said because he said, he said a woman, a woman is, where's my notes?

25:56

A definite, a woman, he said is a definite article. That's not correct. It would be the indefinite article, but there is no indefinite article in Greek.

26:05

We have the word, like I went to a store today. A is the indefinite article in English.

26:12

I went to the store today. The is the definite article. A is the indefinite article.

26:18

The is the definite article. Greek only has a definite article, the word the, which has 24 different forms.

26:24

And then the nouns have to match the definite articles. But he was grammatically incorrect in what he said there.

26:31

Yeah, I think that sometimes in English, we add the words and that may be what he was, because he was writing in English.

26:38

And then, you know, it's just, he wasn't precise, but you know, whatever. So while he was talking, because you and I both have logos, we know how great logos is.

26:48

So I went in and looked up the word on there, which is a husband and, or man.

26:54

And Strong's number 435, that occurs 216 times in the New Testament, 52 times it's rendered in the

27:01

English as husband, 141 times it's rendered as man. And there's a few other different translations of other topics.

27:10

But by far, it's almost three to one man to husband. That doesn't prove anything.

27:16

It's just showing that the majority English translation is not husband, but a man. And he's right, context determines the meaning.

27:24

So I also had time to go look at Gune, which is

27:29

Strong's number, what was it? I got it, whatever. Strong's number 1135. And it occurs 216 times.

27:40

What? 214, according, well, oh, well. Wait a minute.

27:45

Don't tell me, I gotta check something out. 216 times, that's the word Gune, 216 according to what

27:51

I see. And then. You're looking at NASB. Yeah, yeah, I just do the

27:56

NASB. And then, but I'm gonna go back and look at this on the, cause that's 216. Maybe I just put my numbers in wrong.

28:03

But 435, no way. It's also 216 times.

28:13

In this, interesting. Hey, I've never had that happen before. So it threw me for a loop.

28:19

How could, wait, did I get numbers wrong? How about that? So that means - That might be coincidences.

28:25

I like coincidences. They prove evolution's true. Right, Anthony? So anyway, it's wives 81 times men, or women, 127 times.

28:37

So anyway, they mean what they mean in context. But here's some ramifications of the idea.

28:46

Let's just, I think what he's exegeted is within orthodoxy.

28:52

I wouldn't, if I was debating him, I wouldn't say, no, I totally disagree. I'd go, yeah, that makes some sense. It does.

28:59

However, let's look at something, okay? I do not want a woman or a wife to teach her husband or exercise authority over him, but remain quiet.

29:12

First husband, Adam, he was first created and then the wife, Eve, was created.

29:17

That's a loose translation. All right. So the woman, the wife, is not to teach or exercise authority over the man, over the husband.

29:27

Now, some women have said to me in defense of women pastors and elders that this passage is talking about husband and wives.

29:35

And so I thought he might be going a different direction with this, but I don't have a problem with what he said. I mean, I necessarily agree with it 100%, but you know,

29:42

I wouldn't debate him on it. It's not that big a deal. We could discuss probabilities and some things, because he's right.

29:49

It's actually tied to chapter one, first Timothy chapter three, first Timothy 5 .17, that really put this whole issue to rest.

29:57

But since he says this in first Timothy 2 .12 and first Timothy 3 .15 says that Paul says he's given instruction on how to behave in the household of God, which is a church, the pillar of foundation of truth.

30:07

He's talking ecclesiastically. He's saying he's giving instruction to the church. Now the church, of course, could be the proper building, but it could also be the body of believers.

30:18

So no problem either way. We can go that. And there's some discussions either way that'd be fun. So when

30:24

I've talked to women about this who believe in women pastors and elders, they'll sometimes say, well, a woman, a wife can't teach her husband, but she can be a pastor.

30:38

Because this is about husband and wives, not about pastors and stuff. And I go, okay, let's work with that.

30:45

So a woman is not to teach her husband. Excuse me, a wife is not to teach her husband.

30:53

And she gets up to preach in the church. Sorry, he can't attend. Right? Yeah.

31:00

It couldn't be a problem. It'd be a problem. And so that exegesis, what

31:08

I was doing with it from my perspective here to demonstrate that that position is ridiculous does not challenge, nor does it need to be challenged by what

31:17

Greg Koukl said. I think what Greg Koukl said is fine. But I do believe that it says a woman, and a man, it could be understood in different senses.

31:31

It doesn't have to be husband and wife because it doesn't necessarily mean husband and wife with Adam and Eve, because he didn't say husband and wife.

31:39

He didn't say that. I didn't say it was marriage, but he talked about the created order. It's a created thing that God has and where the woman is not to be an authority over a man.

31:49

And we know if it's at least in the marriage context, well, we go back and we look at what

31:54

Paul was talking about in the context. You'll notice that in Genesis three, Satan came to Eve, not to the husband.

32:01

Why? Because the authority was that Adam had the authority, the system was, the setup was that Adam had authority over his wife, period.

32:10

And the reason we know that is because he named the animals and he named her. It's a symbol of authority that he had.

32:16

He named her and Satan usurped or went around the goalpost, so to speak, and went to her, and then she went to the husband.

32:25

So we could make the case from looking at the Old Testament that this is not just an issue of husband and wife, but an issue of authority flat out, period, because that's how it's supposed to be.

32:37

But then there's strengths and weaknesses with that as well. So I'm saying that this is not as easy to wade through.

32:43

His position, I don't have any, I wouldn't say it's false. Yeah, so grammatically it's plausible.

32:53

Yeah. But looking at the context, and I think you brought up one of the things I noted was, the issue, the argument

33:01

Paul is making of this command, this prohibition is dealing with creation.

33:08

Now, he's not giving the Adam and Eve as a symbol of husband and wife because it's dealing with creation order.

33:15

Then the next verse deals with the sin order. So it has to do back in creation where this is the way

33:25

God ordered things with Adam, then Eve, and the sin was Eve, then

33:31

Adam. That's the reason for this instruction. So I guess it was, as we worked through this, when we look at this and he gives the instruction, and then in verse 13, four, that's a purpose clause.

33:48

So the instruction in verse 12, but I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over men, but to remain quiet.

33:55

The reason for that goes back to creation. Adam formed before Eve, not just general husband, general wife, but Adam and Eve in creation.

34:07

Then Eve sinned, it's actually the woman sinned, and then, you know, was deceived.

34:15

So it goes back, both those points go back to creation. And I think the thing that, where I see the difficulty with the argument being made there is just because as we look at the verse, the purpose statement doesn't support a husband and wife.

34:37

Because he would be saying that a wife must, you know, must be quiet, receive instruction submissively, and a wife must not teach or have exercise authority over her husband, but remain quiet because of creation.

34:56

Well, if that's true, actually, I think this would end up having a reverse effect because if that's true, just by nature of husband and wife, if not church roles, then realistically, yeah, a woman shouldn't be able to speak to a man because that would end up putting it where this is a creation issue.

35:19

You know, I actually don't think the context supports the argument that he's making.

35:27

I think we agree that 1 Timothy 3, Titus makes it very clear women can't be pastors.

35:35

It doesn't matter if they're good teachers. It's just, this is what God has ordained.

35:41

And the reason, as we said, and you've talked about this a lot on this show and on your radio show, the issue of federal headship, that's what we see in this.

35:50

I think the purpose clause that we see here is that Adam was formed first as the federal head, then

35:58

Eve, Eve rebelled against that being deceived first. And that's what

36:05

I think is the issue. It's federal headship here. At the very least, there's a lot of different directions that we could take on this.

36:12

Overall, this would be nice to Greg. I don't see any, I don't see any exegetical problem with it.

36:19

I think it's within the range of acceptance, but I think there's more to it. Yeah, and I mean, for folks who may not know who

36:25

Greg Kochel is from Stan Teresa, I thoroughly enjoy his ministry. I've spoken at conferences with him.

36:32

I get along with him very well. He does not, he's not a person who comes to a radio without a thoughtful answer, even though he's being asked questions live on the radio.

36:44

He is a very thoughtful speaker. So he doesn't just give kind of off -the -cuff answers without thinking through it.

36:51

If he doesn't, if he's not ready to give an answer, he says so. So I think he's thought through this.

36:57

As he said, this has been his position for a long time. He just hasn't seen anything that is convincing otherwise.

37:07

That's okay. So that's, Cody Robbins had asked about that. So that was just, we wanted to make sure we got that in for him, even though he's not in here, he did send that in.

37:19

Well, just make a comment here. We had an interesting caller on the radio today about this topic.

37:24

Yeah, that must be because everybody in the chat is asking if the lady from the radio station is,

37:29

I guess Sarah was her name? No, it was something else, but at any rate,

37:35

I don't think it was Sarah. Yeah, people were pointing it out in the chat quite a bit.

37:41

Yeah, she, I spent a half hour with her probably, or 25 minutes, 20 -ish, I don't know, but for quite a bit because I wanted people to see bad exegesis.

37:51

And this is what actually happened. You didn't hear the show. So she called up and she took umbrage with something I said. She said a friend of hers said that I said, she wanted to verify it, that I said that if you go to a church with a woman pastor and elder, you should just leave.

38:04

And I said, yep, that's right. And why would you say that? And we get into some stuff. She proceeded to try and defend the idea of women being pastors and elders.

38:17

And one of the reasons was because, hey, there's neither male nor female in Christ. And I said, well, that has nothing to do with the pastoral epistles as to the salvation.

38:28

I went to 1 Timothy 2, 12, and we went over that issue. Okay, did not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over men, but remain silent for Adam was first created.

38:38

And so that's the authority issue right there. See, it's the authority issue. She's not to have authority over men. And Paul says in the next chapter, he's talking to church context.

38:46

So this is not to happen. So right there, she can't be an elder. I went to Titus chapter one.

38:51

I went to 1 Timothy three, where the Greek says, a man of one woman. And I said to her, so can you be a man?

38:57

Because she said she was an elder at a church. I said, can you be a man of one woman and as an elder supposed to be?

39:03

And she said, I can be a wife of one husband. And I said, can you be a man of one woman?

39:12

And she said, well, I could be a wife of one husband. She wouldn't answer the question. And then it just digressed from there.

39:18

And she started saying that Paul was wrong about some things. She disagreed with Paul. He was just a man like us.

39:25

That's all he was. That's how bad it went. So it was quite a good conversation.

39:30

I said, she's a heretic. I called her a heretic. For those who are watching, she really wouldn't like this that I put up from Reformation Pages made a meme of me while I was down in the

39:39

Philippines with a quote that I thought she really would be unhappy with this. I had said in answer to a question, if you go to a church with a woman pastor, she's not a pastor and it's not a church.

39:50

I don't think she'd be happy with me. But somebody else called up and said, well, does it mean they're not saved?

39:58

And no, it doesn't mean they're not saved. I just, they just don't know. And then she started saying, that reminds me, she started saying, well, men are doing their jobs.

40:07

I'm going, you got that right. I agree. That's right. And so then

40:12

I did a little spiffy thing about, men, get off your lazy rares that if you're going to a church and the woman's a pastor, you take your family, if you're married to your family, you say, nope, we're leaving.

40:22

And if your wife doesn't want to make any more sandwiches, I said, so what?

40:28

I had to keep it kind of low. But I started talking, men, act like men, do what you got to do.

40:36

Stand up for the truth. Stop following your wife around and saying what she says, read the word of God, do what the word of God says.

40:44

And if she doesn't like it, then so be it. Who cares? She deprives you of stuff.

40:52

Okay, then fine. You stand on the word of God. That's what you got to do. But act like men, 1

40:57

Corinthians 16, 13. We need to have a conference called the 1 Corinthians 16, 13 conference.

41:04

And I want to talk. Oh, man. Oh, man. I wish Matt would say what he really believes.

41:11

All right. Real quick, I was going to ask Dr. Silvestro if he has anything he wants to pipe in on this, but before we do,

41:20

NavTimer 1848, or sorry, 1884, got that switch of numbers, gave a $10 super chat there.

41:28

I invited him to come in, but I guess this is his way of getting a question asked. Give a donation to CARM and you get your question asked.

41:36

So gents, I have no issue with interracial marriage. Moses's wife was

41:41

Ethiopian, but how do we reconcile that with Deuteronomy 7, 3, and 4, which seems to forbid it?

41:49

Is God talking about interreligion or interrace? So let me, before we answer that question, let me stay on this one topic.

41:58

Just let Dr. Silvestro get a word in if he has anything to say, then we'll ask that. And then

42:03

Andre is next up. I can't even believe that that's an issue.

42:09

I thought when you first told me this, Andrew, it was going to be regarding women open air preaching, to which

42:16

I have a whole bunch of stuff to say too. But I guess we'll save that for a different day. Well, and you and Matt might disagree on that.

42:24

I think you guys are going to be on opposite ends and I'm going to be in the middle. But what do you, any comments you have on the 1

42:35

Timothy 3? No, I think you guys nailed it. All right.

42:40

So then Matt, before we get to Andre, let's get to his question about interracial marriage in Deuteronomy 7.

42:46

I will, in deference to Matt, I will read Deuteronomy 7, 3 and 4 out of the, you know,

42:54

NIV or sorry, the new American standards. Same thing, same thing. Put your right hand in front of your face.

43:08

Well, I wasn't going to use the electronic version, but you know. I mean, you'd prefer the new

43:17

Arminian standard Bible. That's okay. No, the NIV is called the nearly inspired version.

43:25

Hey, I laugh at that kind of stuff. You did that funny meme today about the anti -pedo

43:32

Baptist. I'm a pedo Baptist. It was a funny meme of anti -pedo Baptist. I was laughing. I can take a joke, you can too.

43:39

It's all good. I think that originally originated from, was it

43:45

Nathan or? Somebody. Cameron's wife or something like that. Okay. So anyway, so here's what

43:50

Deuteronomy 7 says, furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them. You shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons.

44:03

For they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods.

44:12

And then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you and he will quickly destroy you.

44:19

So is this a inner religion or inner race? The Cushite is an

44:27

Ethiopian and in Numbers 12, that's where Moses married a Cushite woman. And then Miriam and Aaron were upset about that.

44:34

And God defended stuff and made him white, which is interesting.

44:41

Made her white and not him. Why? That's a trivia thing. Why did

44:47

Miriam get cursed, but not Aaron, though both of them were guilty of murmuring?

44:55

The answer, quickly yours? What if they were white to start? Oh, there we go.

45:01

Aaron was white and that's why he couldn't turn white. Whereas white would have a problem. Well, they're white because it's leprosy.

45:07

Now the BHI people should say white and leprosy are the same thing. And it's like, we're cursed because we're leprous.

45:13

I'm sure you probably have. Anyway, Aaron was a high priest. He had to be ceremony clean to offer the sacrifice.

45:19

So it looks like what was at issue here is not race because there's only one race, the human race.

45:26

And we have different colors of skin. That's it. That's how it works. And so when it's talking in Deuteronomy 7, it's talking about going after false gods and pagans and paganism.

45:37

And it says here, if you notice, it says in verse one, clear the way of the many nations before you, the

45:47

Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hittites, the

45:52

Jebusites, and the Gesuntites. And they were all in there. The Gesuntites incidentally got wiped out because they could never sneak up on anybody.

46:03

Oh, man. That was pretty bad. Yeah. It was pretty bad. I actually used that on it from a pulpit once and people were just like, aye, aye, aye, because all these

46:12

Gites in there. Remember when no one wants you at their pulpit? Well, it was funny. You know, they got a kick out of it, but we kept going.

46:20

You know, the Gesuntites, no one could ever, you know, they couldn't sneak up on anybody. Well, the Gesuntites are coming, you know.

46:26

I like what John is saying in chat, bad dad jokes. Well, he just said dad jokes, but bad dad.

46:31

Jason Manning is saying the same thing. That's a dad joke. That's a bad dad joke. So at any rate, and it looks like,

46:37

I haven't checked for verification, but I think the issue would be that the Cushite woman was probably a believer in a true and living

46:45

God, and he married. That would be what I would check, because there are a lot of Ethiopians who are true believers and have

46:50

Jewish heritage. So that's it. I would check to see if that's it. And if it wasn't the case, then

46:56

I'd have to go down and check it out some more and see what was going on. Yeah, now I would end up saying,

47:02

I mean, this is actually similar to the last passage we dealt with. Verse four starts with a conjunction for, that's actually like a purpose clause here.

47:10

So he's giving an instruction. Do not intermarry with them. That's the instruction.

47:16

Why? Well, he gives us the reason, which tells us the reason that this instruction is given.

47:22

They will turn your sons away from me. Keep in mind, this is Deuteronomy.

47:28

This is the end of the 40 year period. Let's, at the historical context, Israel, they went 40 years in the wilderness.

47:35

During that time, you have numbers 22, 23, 24, and 25. If you read those passages, those chapters, you're gonna see that Balak was paid to curse

47:47

Israel. He was a prophet for God. He wouldn't actually curse Israel because God didn't curse them.

47:53

So what he did was instructed Balak how to get God to curse Israel since God wouldn't allow

48:00

Balaam to do it. What he did was say, have your daughters marry their husbands. They will then basically be violating what

48:08

God had said and God will end up cursing them. That was what Balaam's idea was.

48:14

That's what ended up happening. So this is an instruction going back to numbers 22 to 25. And the reason given tells us why that this has nothing to do with race.

48:25

It has to do with driving the hearts of the people away from God.

48:31

That's the reason given. So in looking at the purpose clause, we end up seeing,

48:36

I think, what the real issue is. The issue is not the race, but it is the religion.

48:43

It is that their hearts would be turned away. Right. Now, if we're gonna take a New Testament look at this, we would see in Corinthians where he says you can't have partnership light with darkness for the same reason.

48:56

You can't be unequally yoked because the hearts will be driven away from God. So this is a consistent thing,

49:03

Old and New Testament, pass it, or not pass it, a pattern that we see that God wants us being married to people that are equally yoked in faith.

49:15

And so that would be the thing. So there, and I'll say this, and I'm gonna trigger Dr. Silvestro and then he's gonna jump in after this one.

49:23

There is only one race. There's only one race called the human race.

49:29

If you wanna look at races in the Bible, the only race that the Bible talks about is the unsaved race and the saved race.

49:35

We probably triggered Dr. Silvestro. You know what's really triggered me actually is

49:42

I've gotta give a sermon at an apologetics conference in August on the social justice movement.

49:50

And so I've been studying this out a lot lately. And yeah, so talk about being triggered.

49:57

Is this whole issue of the racism that is being brought back in into society.

50:04

You know, a lot of it from Obama and people like him on this and having to go back to the

50:12

Bible in a correct understanding of race. That's right. So, you know, it sickens me to see the church where we're supposed to be teaching properly, teaching creation properly, teaching one race properly all from Adam and Eve, and then seeing it be undone by the social justice movement among many other things, obviously.

50:35

You know, the whole gospel being changed and repentance being changed is even worse.

50:42

Well, I know Matt, you probably did not know what happened with the SBC today and Dr.

50:48

Silvestro might. I do. You do, I figured you would. But yeah, today the

50:53

Southern Baptist Convention met and decided that they think that intersectionality is a good way of determining things for, you know, churches and stuff like that.

51:03

What is, what is a good way? Intersectionality. In other words - Inter what? So this is the idea -

51:10

I don't understand the word, the word. So this is the idea that the more -

51:15

Hold on a second. Matt, you are low man on the totem pole. That's what it means.

51:22

Yeah. Okay, I'm more confused now. Someone type the word out so I can understand the word.

51:29

Yeah, I think it's just got typed out there. Yeah, John typed it out. So what this is, intersectionality is the idea that if I'm, if I'm black,

51:38

I'm a victim, but if I'm a black woman, I have two counts for me because I have two victim statuses.

51:46

If I'm a black woman lesbian, I have three. You know, so it's -

51:51

What? Yeah, so, so - No, I'm not, I'm not, I am, I, I'm sorry. I'm not following you guys.

51:57

I just, this is, this is a new word for me. And I'm, I'm looking it up as we're talking. Intersectionality?

52:04

Matt's got to go ballistic when he figures this out. Oh yeah, I can tell. The interconnected nature of social categorizations such as race, class, and gender, as they apply to a given individual or group regarding as creating overlapping and interdependent systems of discrimination or disadvantage.

52:24

Yeah, so - So it's the interconnectedness of disadvantage, advantage or disadvantage, okay. With supposed disadvantage, or actually the better word would be oppression.

52:33

So the more points you have, the more oppressed you are by society.

52:40

So if you're a black woman lesbian, you're more oppressed. Than somebody who's just a black woman. How do you straighten -

52:46

What about a white male Christian? He's way down. That's why you said at the bottom of the, now I got you.

52:52

You're at the bottom, yeah. You have zero points. You're, you're not going to - Oh, so, oh wait, I'm not oppressed.

52:59

Well, no - No, no, you're not, of course. From their perspective, I'm, I'm an oppressor.

53:05

You're the evil one. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so that's, that's, that's -

53:11

Okay, so the SBC said what? They're going to use that as,

53:19

I guess when it comes to looking at churches, defining churches, looking at new churches, they're going to look at, they're gonna, they're gonna start accepting that as part of their criteria.

53:30

I didn't get a chance to read the full document. I did talk to Tom Buck, who actually stood on the floor at the

53:36

SBC and tried responding to it, but he said, they basically said, go pound sand. Okay, this is new.

53:42

I gotta, I mean, I gotta learn about this and you guys are way ahead of me on this one. This is the whole social justice issue.

53:51

If you remember a while ago, we had that statement on social justice and gospel. We had that guy and you, you spent, what, 20 minutes.

53:58

I think it was our very first episode. You spent 20 minutes trying to get him to define it. Matt, how high is your

54:04

IQ thereabouts? I don't know. I've had different tests, 140s, I don't know.

54:10

I mean, so let's say 140. So what you have to do is you have to take like an NAR view of the kinetic theory and you have to set aside about 80

54:20

IQ points to be able - Well, that would be, then you got to start talking to Andrew. Yeah.

54:27

So that's about how you start to understand this. That's why, oh, that's why he got it so quickly. I can't do that.

54:35

That makes sense now. In all seriousness,

54:41

Matt, this makes no sense. It is utterly ridiculous. But the whole understanding is, let's say outside of the church first, right?

54:52

There's this idea that the white man has been the one who has been suppressing everybody else from being able to rise up and get the better jobs to make more money because there's, they believe that there's a whole system that's in place that they have been oppressed in.

55:10

Okay. Now look, don't get me wrong. They're - You know -

55:16

I got a comment. Yeah. I'm still in debt from seminary and college from the 80s and 90s.

55:22

I work 60, 70 hour weeks. I have stress and strain on me and I worked my tail off to get where I'm at.

55:35

I haven't oppressed anybody. I have been oppressed left and right. So what's this oppressive crap?

55:44

Seriously. I'm not saying my one experience doesn't mean anything. I mean, so what?

55:50

I used to work out at the gym at martial arts. We had a black guy in there. He came over and my daughter would go do things together.

55:58

I wasn't oppressing him. He got jobs. He had to go get his own job. He had to work like anybody else.

56:04

Easiest way for you to understand - Whining little diaper in pieces of crap. The easiest way to understand is this is, it's a political system to bring about socialism.

56:14

That's really - That's what it is. Oh yeah, yeah. Reconstructionism, yeah. And in the church, it's replacing the gospel.

56:21

That's the real concern. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Pieces of - Yeah. All right.

56:28

Yeah, my spiritual Tourette's is on the verge of kicking in. I'll be helping you with this.

56:33

So they want - He's going to push me over the edge for his entertainment. You want to rate churches based on overall oppression.

56:45

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Rate churches on their oppressive quality? Based on what?

56:52

White? How many white people are in there? How affluent they are? How hard they work? What their

56:57

IQs are? How they have really worked hard? You know what? Anthony, you're well off because you're a dentist and you sold your practice.

57:05

You are automatically an oppressor. Yeah, I'm watching the negatives actually.

57:11

Oh, you owe people. Yeah, you, yeah, that's right. I know. It's incredible.

57:18

Yeah, so churches are going to be rated. Here's the thing. Anthony, explain that again, because the look on Matt's face when his spiritual

57:26

Tourette's kicks in is great. So we'll keep him on camera. So they're going to rate churches based on the whiteness of the church, because that's going to be a symbol of the amount of oppression that is occurring in churches in general, but especially specific churches.

57:47

Okay, so let's get this straight then. If you're white, you're not right.

57:54

White males, because white females get appointed female. Okay, so white males are, what was it?

58:03

What was it I got called? I'm a child of the devil. What was it, the

58:09

BHI guy said? Oh, yeah. You're a white devil. White men, okay, white men are white devils, okay.

58:18

So women then are what? White women are what? Well, they get a point. They get a point for being a woman.

58:24

Well, they're not white devils. They have to be something a little bit better than a devil. What, just demons? Maybe just a demon, yeah,

58:30

I don't know. White women are demons, or hemi -semi -demi, hemi -semi -demons.

58:36

This is going to set Matt off for like next week. He's going to come up with, next week he'll have a whole structure for intersectionality.

58:43

Well, now let me tell you what I'm waiting for. And folks, you've all heard this first on Apologetics Live.

58:52

Now, how can it be if you are a, what if you are a black, straight male, so you get a point, versus a white, straight female?

59:08

Should also be a point. Now, do we think that maybe one of them, the point's going to be worth a little bit more than the other one, at some point?

59:18

Well, it depends if it's an issue of sex, then the woman wins. Yeah, see, this is where the confusion's going to come into play, right?

59:27

They're going to have to break this down further. It's not going to be so simple as just making Venn diagrams and determining how many of their oppressions intersect, right, and the number of points they get off of it.

59:39

And what do you do - And what do you do - System at some point. John is bringing up, or abortion, what do you do with abortion?

59:45

When you think about it, they say that men are supposed to stay out of the decision -making on abortion because we're men, but wasn't it men that legalized it?

59:55

I guess that should mean, if men have to stay out of that issue, abortion should be made immediately illegal until women voted in.

01:00:07

Oh, all right. Well, poor Andre's been waiting here. I opened up a landmine on this.

01:00:17

Oh, yeah. Is it really a point system? Yes, yes, Matt. I need to find this,

01:00:24

I'm serious. I need to find it. Yeah, you can find the Venn diagrams everywhere, but here's the problem is this is such a -

01:00:30

Venn, spell Venn as in Venn, V -E -N -N. Diagram on, what would be the thing

01:00:36

I'd look for? Intersectionality. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, and so you'll find, and there's all kinds, like if you go to just Google images, there's boatloads of Google images.

01:00:47

Where have I been? Some have like five circles, some have like seven circles. Oh, I'm looking at it.

01:00:53

So, yeah, so there's lots of fun things in there. Mike, I have a question.

01:01:00

Yeah. How stupid can people get? I know.

01:01:08

I'm telling you, that's why I said, you gotta set aside about half your IQ to try to start to understand this stuff, because it really is mind boggling.

01:01:17

Well, and Matt - Social reconstructionism and the idea of socialism as a cue.

01:01:22

Go ahead. I'm dropping in the chat, both on YouTube and here. There's a statement that several of us were involved in putting together, the

01:01:31

Statement on Social Justice and the Gospel. It's at statementonsocialjustice .com. You can go there and look at, actually, let me see how many signers now.

01:01:42

I was one of the early on. So that data is 11 ,000, but it goes through and says what we agree with and what we disagree with, basically, point by point through this whole thing.

01:01:55

The only problem, though, with the Dallas statement, I like it. I don't know if it clearly talks about why you guys have done certain points with that statement.

01:02:06

Well, the issue is that the plan was, and is happening, is when you go to there and you look under resources, each one of those articles will have a, if not yet, the plan is that every article will have a blog article or more for each one explaining in greater depth.

01:02:29

So you should go back to there and look under resources because I know several of the initial signers were writing up some documents for that.

01:02:39

Yeah, well, that's gonna be necessary going forward. As part of this apologetics conference

01:02:46

I'm gonna be speaking at, obviously, we're gonna be giving a copy of the Dallas statement to everybody, but unless the links are up there by then,

01:02:55

I'm gonna have to explain why each of these points was necessary to put into it. I'm looking right now, there's like three pages of different articles.

01:03:08

James White, Tom Askell, Daryl Harrison, Tom Buck, Josh Bice have all written different articles.

01:03:17

Phil Johnson. Yeah, I've seen several that I've read. Huh? Yeah, I've seen several of Josh's.

01:03:24

Justin Peters has a couple articles out there. I'll have to read through them and see how much they address.

01:03:31

This is such a, it's such a new thing, right? This really popped up big after the

01:03:36

MLK thing last year. So we're only a year into this right now. And there seems to be a lot of stuff being written about and they're still figuring out a lot of this critical race theory stuff.

01:03:53

So, I don't know if this is gonna continue to be this amorphous movement as time goes on or if it's gonna get a little bit more targeted.

01:04:02

I think it's gonna be the end of the SBC. I think they're gonna split over it and they'll make

01:04:08

Beth more the president. Yeah, well, look, they may have to.

01:04:15

It's ridiculous when it comes down to the gospel issues. So Matt, I don't know how much, again, you understand about all this, but what it's come down to is there has been suggestions that because we are white males, and so again, it's really, as Andrew said, it's about Marxism.

01:04:37

It's about redistribution of wealth overall. And so every point within this critical race theory really points back to that issue.

01:04:48

Now, some of the things that Tabeti has said and other guys has been, our people are responsible for slavery back in the day.

01:04:59

Even though my ancestors were from Italy 40 years ago, but whatever. So we're responsible for that.

01:05:07

And that we have to repent over other people's sins.

01:05:18

Right, I know, it's kind of odd, right? So we have to repent for other people's sins and that repentance isn't effectual until we have given some sort of reparation payments for that repentance to work.

01:05:34

I could just see the communist branch of the Russian government, which is still in effect, just sitting in a room rubbing their hands, wringing their hands going, man, this is working so well in America.

01:05:48

Oh, well, yeah. Hey, look, this has been in the works for over a hundred years now in America.

01:05:54

So what we've seen in just the last couple of years, it's really been steamrolling now, going downhill fast.

01:06:02

Well, we've got to stand up and start fighting against it, but this is, it's a sheer idiocy. It is, this kind of stuff will be the destruction of the

01:06:11

United States. It will, but the issue is this, the way we fight it is with the gospel.

01:06:19

The real gospel. The real gospel, yeah. Not just, we fight and we have to make up the wrongs of previous generations.

01:06:26

We fight with the gospel. We also fight with laws, with lawsuits, with protests.

01:06:32

We fight by getting out socially. They need to hear the gospel. But Jesus said, when he sent the disciples out into the world, he said, do you have a sword?

01:06:43

And they said, no, we have two cloaks. He said, sell a cloak and buy a sword. We have the right of self -defense.

01:06:50

Paul in Acts 17 appealed to Caesar, and he used his citizenship as a

01:06:55

Roman citizen in order to go to Rome and use the law to the advantage of what he had.

01:07:01

We ought to be doing this. The same thing. I keep telling people over the radio,

01:07:07

I've been saying it for years. If the Christians don't get off their stinking, lazy little rears and we start uniting and start fighting against this oppressive lie from the enemy, which ultimately is to destroy

01:07:22

Christianity, to silence Christians from speaking. That's ultimately the goal. But the weapons that we use, first of all, it's gonna be prayer.

01:07:31

We need that gospel right at the tip of our tongue to be able to give to people. They need that regenerative work.

01:07:38

But for the unbelievers, that's who the law is for. There's a verse for that. I forgot where it is. At least I haven't memorized.

01:07:43

The law is for the ungodly. And so we need to have that. Our laws that are already in the books enforced, and we need to get out there and get more laws passed to enforce righteousness.

01:07:57

We need to have this done. And the Christians are gonna stop being mamby -pamby little groups of whiners.

01:08:04

In fact, I'm gonna tell you this little story. It fits, it doesn't fit, but I'm gonna say it anyway. I was talking to Chad Prigmore.

01:08:12

We can get him on, he can tell us more of the details. So this is secondhand, but he said that, because he's going to Africa. Chad Prigmore's a local pastor here.

01:08:20

Andrew knows him. So, excuse me. So Chad, we had lunch a couple, three days ago, and he was telling me about this guy he knows who arranges trips for mission works to Africa.

01:08:32

He's very connected. And years ago, get this.

01:08:39

A bunch of pastors were approached to go to Africa to preach and teach from America to Africa.

01:08:47

And they would not go unless they could travel in first -class airline seats and get five -star hotels.

01:08:57

And then they'd only speak to large groups. They wouldn't go to the outskirts outside of town. Well, this guy arranged all this.

01:09:05

He was really disgusted with them for that, but he arranged it and finally got a group, a small group of these pastors to go.

01:09:13

They apparently, that was what they had. And that's what they got. Why? Because of positive confession. We're supposed to name it and claim it.

01:09:19

The Lord's supposed to give us money and all this stuff. We could sit back in our laurels, et cetera, et cetera. At any rate. So he got this small group of pastors within that group to go to an outskirts of a town in order to preach the gospel.

01:09:32

One of the pastors met a woman there and brought her back to his hotel room. And this guy said,

01:09:38

I'm done with these people. Now, this is the kind of Christianity that's being presented in large parts of the world.

01:09:45

I know a guy, there's other issues I can get into about these positive confession people who go in and rape and pillage the spiritual landscape and take money from the poor.

01:09:54

And then they leave. They come back to the United States on their private jets. The Christians are being taught from these idiots, from these morons.

01:10:02

And because of that, the Christians who are supporting them are partly responsible for the lies that are being disseminated, not only in their own pulpits, but also in other parts of the world.

01:10:12

The Christians have got to get off their lazy rears. We need a Christian man conference. Now, CMC, Christian man conference.

01:10:21

And if you're a woman, you can make sandwiches for us. That'll just really make them happy.

01:10:26

We need a man conference. What's that? Can they do that while they preach? Yeah, right.

01:10:33

And the reason is, if the women want to help, they can help, but it's for a man conference.

01:10:39

We need to start getting manness elevated. It doesn't matter what race you are, what color, skin color, who cares?

01:10:48

Follow what Jesus Christ was as the example. And you know what he did? He overturned the temple tables. He said, you're your father, the devil.

01:10:53

You're a whitewashed supplicant. You're a hypocrite. And he spent time with the children. He spent time with the women. And in a godly way, with his authority that he had as God in flesh, he forgave sins.

01:11:05

He healed people. He performed miracles. He taught and he died. And he corrected, he rebuked.

01:11:12

And this is what we're supposed to be doing as men. And on the radio today, I got talking about this. And I said, man, you should stand up in your churches and say, no, don't accept this anymore.

01:11:20

And walk out with your families while the woman pastor is up there, women elders up there, and just do it. Who cares what people think?

01:11:27

And it becomes this kind of thing that social justice is able to take root because it's a weed.

01:11:34

And it's a weed. If it was built, if we had the solid rock, such weeds can't take root, but we don't have solid rock.

01:11:42

We've got a mamby -pamby system of weak theology, weak understanding, weak men, overly weak women in their roles, what they're supposed to be doing too.

01:11:51

The men are really the ones to blame. And as a whole, they're not being taught what they need to be taught. And the men are not teaching what they need to be teaching.

01:11:58

The pastors aren't doing their job overall in America. We've got this crap going forth and it shouldn't be like that.

01:12:07

I do my radio show, I'm on 14 or 16 stations. I've been doing radio for 14 years, five days a week.

01:12:13

We barely can make the bills. And it's only because we've got a great deal from the radio station, from the network.

01:12:22

And I mean a great deal. And the network head has told me on more than one occasion that their people have said, get rid of me for a couple of reasons.

01:12:32

One is, hey, look what I say. The other one is we can get better people in there to pay more money, pay real money for that time.

01:12:42

And he says, no, he wants the truth being taught. Now, praise God for that. That's the only reason I'm on the radio right now.

01:12:49

But look at this. Why is it that I have to struggle so much to get money and funds, even to pay the little amount that we had to pay to get the radio on an incredibly great deal?

01:13:00

Why? Because Christians aren't interested in stuff like that. They're interested in getting their bank accounts increased, their health increased, their wellbeing.

01:13:10

It's what's it called? Narcissus, taking the Bible, using the scriptures to teach and preach about themselves, what they themselves can get.

01:13:19

Now, God so loved the world that he gave, John 3, 16. The nature of love is to give. John 15, 13, greater love has this than no man that he lay his life down for his friend.

01:13:28

The very nature of true love is sacrificial. God is love for John 4, 8. We're supposed to love

01:13:33

God and love our neighbor. Those are two greatest commands by which we'll fulfill all the law.

01:13:40

Now, if that's the case, how is it then that those people who are supposed to be true Christians who are loving

01:13:45

God and loving their neighbor are then saying, I need to have what I need. I need to have everything that I need to have instead of the focus being other centered.

01:13:54

Now, I'm not saying don't have a retirement. I'm not saying don't have a job and insurance. I'm not saying that. It should be that we should have an other centeredness in our theological perspective.

01:14:03

Not the idea as the positive confession, more on wacko, butthead heretics are teaching to the people and speaking in tongues all at once.

01:14:13

And then another person interprets them and they get this, don't touch God's anointed and throw your money up here on the stage. And I need my third private jet, says

01:14:20

Kenneth Copeland, who'd also taught Jesus appeared to him and never claimed to be God. And God came from another planet or there's a mother planet, you know.

01:14:30

That's honorable. Thanks for spinning him up, Anthony. You're welcome. But this would need to happen.

01:14:36

I know what Christians can do. I mean, I know what Christians could do. You know, Anthony and Andrew, you guys know what you can do.

01:14:44

The gospel is powerful. If you look in the New Testament, you can see what happened. The world was turned upside down with the gospel of Jesus Christ because people stood on what he said.

01:14:54

They were firm in prayer. They preached his word. They didn't back down. If they had to go to jail, they went to jail.

01:15:02

They did what they had to do because this is what God said. Now, you're right.

01:15:08

You know, the American gospel video, get the video,

01:15:15

Great American Gospel. But the American gospel has been so watered down that it doesn't make, it's meaningless nowadays.

01:15:25

So, all right. So, Andre, I want to get Andre in. He doesn't have a lot of time left to get to his question.

01:15:31

He's been waiting as Matt's been spun up. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Andre, you've been added in.

01:15:37

If you want to unmute yourself. Let's see if I can unmute you or if, do, do, do, do, do.

01:15:44

There we go. Let's see, does that work? Barely can hear you. Let me turn you up as much as I can.

01:15:53

Get really close to the mic. A little bit better.

01:16:03

Well, it's probably as good as. So, what's your question for us, Andre? Okay, well, let me start off by saying this.

01:16:14

I heard a debate between James White and Roger Perkins. And James White said, regarding Hebrews 10, verse five, when he was trying to justify a pre -incarnate

01:16:25

God, the son, and he is quoted saying, the one who took the body said, you have prepared a body for me.

01:16:31

And that's at 27 minutes and 22. So that sparked my interest. And I found

01:16:38

Spurgeon in Low I Come, 1891. I found John MacArthur in 1970,

01:16:44

Why Was Jesus Born? John Gill in his commentary on Hebrews 10, five, and also

01:16:49

John Nelson Darby. They all agree that Jesus had a pre -created shell in Mary that he took on Christmas Eve.

01:16:58

Do you agree with that? A pre -created shell? Yep. What, is this pistachios?

01:17:06

I'll read to you what John MacArthur said in 1970.

01:17:13

And on that first Christmas Eve, there was a farewell going on in heaven. The son said goodbye to the father.

01:17:19

Now the body of Christ was divinely prepared by God. The Holy Spirit had taken nine months to accomplish his work.

01:17:25

And thus that body came, and with it came the second person of the Trinity. What book is that from?

01:17:33

1970, Why Was Jesus Born? John MacArthur, on grace to you, it's sermon number 12.

01:17:38

The son said goodbye to the father? Yeah. Well, first of all, this shows - Where'd he get that? He believed in eternal sonship before the 1980s, because he says, the son said goodbye to the father on Christmas Eve.

01:17:50

Yeah, I affirm eternal sonship also. It's an inter -Trinitarian thing. But to say the son said goodbye to the father is just ridiculous.

01:17:58

Well, okay, so the thing is, this sparked my interest, researching what

01:18:03

Trinitarians actually believe about the incarnation. Are you a Trinitarian? Huh?

01:18:09

Are you a Trinitarian? No, by studying, I came out of that. I believe that, so, okay, maybe

01:18:19

I should make a statement what I believe. The central verse is John 1, 14, which says the word became flesh, and the word is used, you know,

01:18:26

Maya 1096. Anytime it's connected with two nouns, and there is no exception, it talks about a transition from condition to condition.

01:18:34

Why would it not mean that in John 1, 14? In 1 John 1, verse one, it says that the logos of life was seen as -

01:18:41

Okay, can I, wait, hold on, hold on, you're going too much, you're just saying too much. Well, that's, but the basis of a debate would be that I first make the case, and then you can -

01:18:48

Hold on, hold on, I wanna ask you something. When you said John 1, 14, the word became flesh, what are you saying by that?

01:18:57

I'm not saying anything. Okay, look, look, let me tell you something.

01:19:05

I've had thousands of discussions with thousands of people, and I ask them, what do you think that is?

01:19:11

I'm not saying it, the Bible says it. Now, look, I can quote the verse, and I can say, this is what the

01:19:16

Bible says, and use it against you. This is why I'm specifically asking you. I have a specific question

01:19:22

I wanna get to. I wanna know what you think it means, what you think it means that the word became flesh.

01:19:28

What do you think that means? I just told you that any time water becoming wine, stones to become bread, the sea becoming blood, it's always a transition from condition to condition.

01:19:45

And so this - Then I have a question for you. If the word became flesh, was it no longer the word?

01:19:52

It was the word, but it was not flesh. Hold on a second. If the word became flesh, and you're, hold on.

01:19:59

And you're saying that water becomes wine. If the water becomes wine, is the wine also water?

01:20:06

It was in a different condition. Is wine and water the same thing? Again, you're trying to cross examine me too early.

01:20:17

Yes, I am. Is wine and water the same thing? Okay, is wine and water the same thing?

01:20:29

Hey, you're not letting me wait for one and a half hours to continue. Hold on a second. You were reading a whole bunch of stuff.

01:20:35

All you wanna do is teach. I'm asking you a question. Andre, Andre, hold on.

01:20:41

You already have made your statement. Andre. Before you ask me questions, I would like to make a case. Okay. Because you said

01:20:46

I can debate you on it on your channel. Then, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me explain the way this works.

01:20:52

Hold on a minute. The way this works is, if you'd like to have a formal debate, we set that up.

01:20:58

When we do open Q &A, it's for questions and answers. Matt said you can debate me on Thursday.

01:21:04

Well, okay, so - Okay, Jason - You and me will set up a debate. Jason? Set one up.

01:21:10

Jason. Jason. Let's set one up. You agree, Matt? Hold on. His name's Andre. Jason, hold on.

01:21:16

Andre, sorry. Andre, I don't know if you're worth the time. And the reason

01:21:22

I'm saying this is because I can't even get you to answer a simple question. Because you wanna play your psychology on me.

01:21:30

I'm gonna make my case first. Hold on a sec. Hold on. Andrew. Andrew. Andrew.

01:21:35

I'm not using my psychology on you. It's not an issue of psychology.

01:21:41

I simply asked you a simple question. Does the water, when it becomes wine, is it still water?

01:21:48

Simple. Okay. So you see, look, we can't have a debate because you can't have a discussion.

01:21:56

A debate is not a discussion. A debate is one guy makes a case, the other guy can answer, then you can have a rebuttal.

01:22:01

Excuse me. And then you can cross -examine me on it. And the cross -examination is what we're doing right now.

01:22:07

And you can't bear to do that. That's too early. Okay. You need to make your case first. Okay, I'm trying to be patient with you.

01:22:14

And this, I'm just testing you. If you want a piece of me, then answer my question.

01:22:20

Piece of you. I know that. Okay, get ready. Silence him.

01:22:25

Silence him. Look. Look, here's the problem. I'm trying to have a discussion with him.

01:22:30

And notice what's happening. Every time I try and ask him something, he won't let me finish. He tries to dominate the conversation.

01:22:38

He challenges me, but he won't even have, and I can't even say my point because he keeps interrupting me.

01:22:43

Okay, let me clarify it. So I muted him for a minute.

01:22:49

Andre, you came into a Q &A, not a debate. Okay, now he's gone.

01:22:55

If he's going to give - He can go whine. He can go whine someplace else. You just revealed he's probably not a

01:23:01

Christian. He didn't get his way. Look, folks, when you do an open question and answer, that's what it is.

01:23:09

It's an open answer. Now, you could give a challenging question and challenge Matt.

01:23:14

But when we set up a formal debate, there's rules to a debate.

01:23:20

There's a times. And that's why we devote the full two hours when we do a formal debate.

01:23:25

So each side has an opening. Each side gets the cross -examination. Each side gets their closing arguments.

01:23:34

And we can ask maybe some questions. But the reality is, is it seems

01:23:40

Andre came in here to challenge without giving Matt time to prepare. Matt's trying to get clarifying questions.

01:23:48

He doesn't want to be challenged. He wants to, as Matt said, teach. Look, if Andre would have come in respectfully and said, hey,

01:23:57

I would like to set up a debate, there's an easy way to do this. Folks, if you would like to set up a debate with Matt or I, you simply contact me and we'd set it up, okay?

01:24:08

Info at strivingforeternity .org. Email us and set it up.

01:24:14

We have some debates that we're trying to line up. Some that you have to wait for Matt, have to wait till his wife gets a little bit better.

01:24:22

But the reality is, you don't just come into the open Q and A and look to end up just dominating and make it into a debate when it wasn't set up for that.

01:24:33

I have no problem setting up the debate. We've used this show to set up plenty of debates, but that's not what this is for.

01:24:43

Let me add, I've said this before, I've done this before, where someone's kind of challenged me,

01:24:48

I'll ask a question. And some people might think, well, that's a little bit narrow.

01:24:54

Why are you doing that so quickly? I have a reason for it. And I told him what the reason was.

01:25:00

I can't even get him to answer a simple question now that I won't be able to get him to answer a simple question later.

01:25:09

Correct. And that's why I wanted to see. He made a logic mistake.

01:25:15

Also, I can see what level of logic he understands. And obviously he doesn't.

01:25:21

Obviously he doesn't know what he's doing in that area. And he wasn't even polite enough to allow me to ask the question and get a simple answer.

01:25:28

It was a test, that's all, to see if he's worth debating. Because just because I get challenged doesn't mean

01:25:34

I have to accept a challenge. But if he wants to come in and discuss it, then let's discuss it. And let me also explain why

01:25:40

I ejected him because nobody was able to see that, except for those of us in the room. He did a hand gesture that was disrespectful.

01:25:50

What'd he do? He basically gave us all the middle finger. And he wants to debate me, and this is how he behaves.

01:25:59

So I was right, wasn't I, to find out and to dig. I get challenged from people, and I say,

01:26:04

I'm gonna find out if they're, and I mean this in a derogatory sense, if they're worth debating. Because I'm not saying they're not worth, it's a human being, but just because somebody's been saved three days and said,

01:26:15

I'm gonna debate Matt Schlicht, wait a minute, let's hold on. So I wanted to see. He just gave himself away.

01:26:22

It's bad news. Let me add in Mr. James here. He's come in.

01:26:28

James, actually, before James comes in, you mentioned Chad Pridmore, and what you may not know,

01:26:36

Matt, I know you had lunch with Chad this week because I was talking to him just before you headed out for lunch with you, but Chad is a new podcaster on the

01:26:45

Christian Podcast Community. He's got a new podcast called The Way Radio, the very first initial teaser is up.

01:26:52

Once iTunes accepts him, he's gonna be dropping his episodes. You, Matt, remember when he used to be on the radio with,

01:26:58

I think it was just before you or after you, but he used to be at the radio station there, and then he went into podcasting, and he was podcasting, but who he was hosting through, they ended up shutting down.

01:27:11

So he's now with the Christian Podcast Community. We have, I think like a, I wanna say like, oh,

01:27:18

I don't know, 12 or 13 podcasts, 14 podcasts there now, I forget. It's growing, but one of them is also

01:27:26

James Watkins here, who's just coming in, and he can unmute himself. He is the host of Five Solas Podcast, also the founder of Five Solas Ministries.

01:27:40

So there's an introduction to Mr. James. Hey, so I wasn't expecting this.

01:27:46

I called you out in a video a little bit ago that I did. Oh, you mean you called me out while we were doing this show?

01:27:51

Yeah, I totally forgot you were doing the show. I was gonna tell you about a special surprise that we have for you, but you didn't get on, so I don't know if you get the surprise now.

01:28:01

Yeah, I was tagged, and you said there's a surprise, but hey. All right, well.

01:28:06

Oh, Anthony's pointing to himself. Whatever the surprise is, he wants it. Well, I need

01:28:11

Anthony's number to give me a call anyway, so maybe I can work something out for him. Sounds like it.

01:28:19

I'm walking through evangelism. I did three sermons on Sundays at a church near me on evangelism, and last

01:28:26

Saturday and the next two Saturdays, I'll be doing evangelism training with them like out at the farmer's market.

01:28:33

Your tracks went like hotcakes, James. I had several hundred. They are all gone.

01:28:39

Awesome, awesome. I have to order some more for you. Well, man, the new ones that we have, the

01:28:45

Faith Alone and Christ Alone ones, man, they look like we just upped the game on them.

01:28:51

That's great. I've got some Catholics that need those. Okay, well, since you mentioned the tracks,

01:28:57

I'll give a quick commercial to explain the tracks. So I had to take my shirt off. Here's the gospel track that he was talking about.

01:29:07

This is one of the tracks he made, and if you look, they go along with the shirts.

01:29:16

You should see the tattoo that Andrew has as well. This is just stamped right on my forehead.

01:29:22

God exists. He has spoken. Yeah, the tracks come along with the T -shirts that match the tracks, which is a really cool idea.

01:29:31

First one I know that has ever done that, but that actually has, these tracks go out really, really quick, and look, the print on the back is so big, even

01:29:41

Matt can read it at his age. You ought to see this one, man. I went on a tangent on that one.

01:29:49

I went full -blown book mode on that track, but these right here, it's the first three of the

01:29:57

Solas, Christ Alone, Faith Alone, Grace Alone, and the print on them is just so much bigger, and I didn't skip a thing.

01:30:05

Yeah, so are you saying Matt would be able to read it even with his old eyes? Yeah, absolutely.

01:30:11

Even you could, but Matt, I wasn't expecting him to come on here, but since I'm on,

01:30:21

I just asked my wife if she'd like to do it, and she said, yes. I heard you talking about the financial support. Something that we're wanting to start in July is we want to start donating a percentage of the sales that we get from the tracks and the shirts that we do to a ministry each month, so each month we would select the ministry to donate those proceeds to, and we would like to do that for you guys the first month.

01:30:48

Hey, praise God. I'll send you an email with the information on it.

01:30:53

We don't ask for anything in return, just goals to get the gospel out, so. Well, hey, man, what state do you live in?

01:31:01

I am in Little Georgia. Georgia? I think I'm only about,

01:31:06

I think I'm probably the third Calvinist in the state. Well, do you hear me on the radio out there?

01:31:13

I'm just curious. Yeah, I do. I tune in every day. It pings on my phone at six, so 3 p .m. every day. Oh, awesome, because I was thinking that,

01:31:21

I keep mentioning out there, and there are people who want me to come out and speak and preach, so maybe it'll happen.

01:31:27

It'd be great to meet you. Yeah, I'd love to. Actually, I went out this past Friday, and I street preached for the first time.

01:31:36

I've been talking about doing it for probably the last four years, and I finally did it. And there's a huge event coming up in September.

01:31:45

There's gonna be about 50 ,000 people, and the only people evangelizing the event are Jehovah's Witnesses. What's this?

01:31:53

It's in Augusta, Georgia. It's called Arts in the Hearts Festival, I believe, but it's a huge cultural event, so there's a whole lot of different ethnicities out there.

01:32:02

There's Black Hebrew Israelites, there's Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses. When's it gonna be?

01:32:09

It's September, the middle of September, if I remember right. But there's another huge one coming up.

01:32:15

The Masters Tournament is in April, and I'm gonna start trying to get support together.

01:32:21

The Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones out there. 250 ,000 people a year go through there, and the

01:32:27

Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones doing something. So my goal this year is to generate enough support to be able to supply 100 ,000 gospel tracts and go out there and...

01:32:38

That reminds me, have you ever seen the warning track from CARM? Yeah, yeah. Maybe use that if you want, but man,

01:32:48

I'm interested in that thing out there, but we need those tracts out there.

01:32:54

We need those tracts out there. Yeah, and that's something, I mean, with probably 50 ,000 people out there,

01:33:00

I'd really like to order a batch of about 25 ,000 tracts and... Well, hey, James, real quick, can you give the website where people can order t -shirts and tracts and whatnot?

01:33:12

Yeah, it's www .fivesolasministries .com. It's the number five.

01:33:17

You don't have to spell five out. But there is the... Right now we have the first three solas,

01:33:23

Grace Alone, Faith Alone, Christ Alone, and the shirts and the gospel tracts. And we have a support page as well for people, because my goal is that whenever I hear like Andrew having a

01:33:37

Jersey fire or something, and they need something like gospel tracts, I wanna be able to have enough support in place where I can say, okay, well,

01:33:45

I'm gonna send you up 15 ,000 gospel tracts so you guys can go evangelize. Well, James, July, was it

01:33:52

July 13th? I'll double check the date, but July 13th, if you wanna get the tracts ready for Jersey, we have another

01:33:57

EquipJersey coming up. Yeah, let's get the support on there first. It's July 13th, so if you wanna send them...

01:34:05

And folks, if you do wanna be part of the EquipJersey, just go to equipjersey .org,

01:34:12

equipjersey .org, and we have opened the registration there.

01:34:19

So if you want to join that, Dr. Silvestro will be speaking, I'll be speaking, Pastor Frank Mullis will be speaking,

01:34:26

James kinda knows him, that's his pastor, and we'll probably be bringing in Ray Comfort for Q &A via simulcast, so that's the plan.

01:34:37

Then we go out and do some evangelism, hand out lots of tracts. I'd love to go out there with you, but somebody has to stay behind and preach whenever Frank's on vacation.

01:34:47

Does that mean you're not coming to repent and witness in New York? Is Frank coming to repent and witness, because if he is, then

01:34:54

I can't. Well, you know what, it's Frank.

01:34:59

You could just play a recording of someone. Everyone falls asleep anyway when he preaches.

01:35:05

I mean, I've seen the videos. It's kinda like when Matt preaches, it's just like nap time. Yeah, well, the irony is whenever I preach, they're all smiles afterwards.

01:35:16

I don't know if I'm tickling their ears or if they just enjoy it that much. They were just getting over. They were glad it was over.

01:35:25

Yeah, that's what it was. So you gotta be like angry to get them smiling during the message. See, that's when it's good, you know?

01:35:32

Well, Frank comes up to me every time I preach, and the first time he said it, I didn't quite catch it. So I was like, man, he just gave me the first compliment he's ever gave me.

01:35:41

He was like, you're gonna make a good preacher one day after my first sermon. One day. Yeah. You know what,

01:35:48

I wanna thank you so much for this. I won't take up any more of the time in case somebody wants to come on, but Matt, I'll send you a email with the information, and I mean, we'd really like to do that for you guys.

01:35:59

Matt, you had a huge impact on me. I used to protest being atheist, and the

01:36:06

Lord drew me by a near -suicide attempt, and whenever I was coming out of that atheism being drawn, and I was having all my questions, it was calm that I went on to and was getting the answers to everything

01:36:21

I'd always wondered. So in Justin Peter's ministry, ironically enough, and then I stumbled upon this guy named

01:36:27

Andrew Rappaport's website when I was in the charismatic movement, so. Good.

01:36:33

Well, this proves that God can use three fools for his glory to bring someone else into the kingdom.

01:36:41

Well, just say four fools. I think Andrew qualifies as two. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I remember that one.

01:36:51

Yeah, and Andrew, I have a surprise coming for you. You got, okay, yeah, I'll watch the video later.

01:36:56

I'm not gonna tell you what it is now, but you got something coming. Yeah, so wait, let me, I'm just looking at Matt's shirt there and it does look like he spilled his coffee.

01:37:04

Look at that. We got him so spun up. Look at that white shirt. He's got the coffee stain. Yep, there we go.

01:37:10

So this is part of the shirt. It says do a laundry and I did know this is not new this is old and my wife always goes don't wear that.

01:37:20

I Don't remember it being there before. All right, so I added I added

01:37:25

Vincent and we got a couple minutes left Vincent is a regular from long ago, but we haven't seen him in a while.

01:37:30

So I added him in Vincent, you know how to unmute yourself. So go ahead and do that How are y 'all doing?

01:37:38

Uh, yeah, it's been a while We've been mostly hanging out on discord and talking with all kind of interesting characters over there, so Matt Matt has his channel over there too.

01:37:49

So we drop in there How you doing Vincent any questions or or anything for us

01:37:56

Yeah, I just dropped in to see how y 'all are doing because I hadn't talked to y 'all in a while yeah, actually,

01:38:01

I I'm gonna contact you after the show cuz I got some questions about discord, but Yeah Hey Matt, have you moved to your new location yet or what?

01:38:10

no, we had to postpone it because we to the end of the year because we found out that when we go there will be out of network and therefore for insurance medical insurance, therefore my wife's deductible will start all over again and Just you know quits it.

01:38:28

I mean she has surgery. She had a surgery on her back today That's weird, you know much prayers to y 'all's way man much prayers

01:38:36

So we got away and hopefully we'll just see you know It may have to move in December because it starts in January the new stuff

01:38:44

We may have to get down there and we're gonna strategize how it works and she still wants to go and look okay So we'll do it, you know

01:38:50

Yeah Definitely list praying for you guys. So thanks. I really appreciate that because we definitely need it

01:38:58

Yeah So I added a cat in here if she has any questions Or if she just wants to say hello.

01:39:05

We have a couple minutes left. Oh You're letting me say hello, thank you

01:39:18

You guys realize that she has a point and we have zero right yeah

01:39:24

But the difference I have I have the mute ability Although actually see

01:39:34

I have just one point because I am female but It was it Andrew pointed out earlier

01:39:40

Matt is higher on the totem pole than all of you guys because he has Asperger's which is considered a disability.

01:39:48

Oh Yes, oh Hold it, but but Wow, he's not above me because I'm I'm Jewish and therefore we were victimizing it in In the

01:39:59

Nazi Holocaust camps, so Jewish anymore. So it's probably only half. Oh, I am still 15 and and this the slavery of the

01:40:10

Jews in the 1940s was much more recent than the slavery of African Americans just saying well,

01:40:17

I'm bald Does that give me a point? No, that just makes you ugly Grass doesn't grow on a busy highway

01:40:32

Hey Matt, do you like your full head of hair? Yeah, I'm glad I still have it to at 62 years old.

01:40:38

Yeah You know Vincent some of us their brains just pressed too hard up against the skull and and the hair

01:40:46

Just keeps pushing it out. That's exactly right Anthony. I know the feeling.

01:40:53

Yeah, you see Yeah, already cat you you're you triggered everyone here Anthony only triggered

01:40:58

Matt you triggered everybody So Matt when you gonna start studying this whole critical race theory intersectionality social justice well,

01:41:15

I don't know because I'll just be transparent here Transparent not to just a little how about translucent not transparent

01:41:26

That I'm so I'm under such pressure right now in different categories and different things that I don't have that dedicated energy

01:41:36

I need to do for that and and so there's a lot of things pulling

01:41:41

No, we could do we could spin you up every week on that's what I'm saying next week My first thing

01:41:47

I'm gonna do is bring this up again 801 p .m. You know

01:41:56

Okay, yeah You know though in all fairness people have to learn about this because this this is still a shocker

01:42:06

So so Matt and you know, you you weren't there at Shepard's conference with Andrew and I a lot of others

01:42:11

This is this is what shocked me. I thought World Shepard's conference MacArthur's conference

01:42:17

G3 no no conferences John MacArthur's pastors conference at Grace Community Church in in LA so I expected that when that whole

01:42:27

Q &A happened and some some hard questions were given from Phil Johnson to to Mark Dever and and Al Mohler I would have

01:42:36

I expected everybody there all What is it 2 ,500 3 ,000 people or so that were there or maybe more

01:42:45

Andrew I don't know more. I expected all the people that were there to know exactly what was going on. I was shocked

01:42:50

I don't know about you Andrew. I was shocked that what is it? Maybe 15 % of guys knew what was going on There's a lot there were a lot of pastors that have no idea, you know, and for the same reason

01:43:03

Matt doesn't You know, the thing is is that a lot of the pastors are and a lot of people don't understand what it's like being

01:43:10

You know pastor having having Your whole day you're trying to get your study in but then you have visitations you have this you have that you have all these different Things going on.

01:43:20

It's hard to to find time to just see what's going on out there in the world Yeah, so it's the same with Matt Matt's, you know busy with you know

01:43:29

Writing articles preparing to move taking care of it, you know being a full -time caregiver now You don't have the time to to keep up on stuff.

01:43:37

I mean you Basically, you know I have I have like guys like you and Justin Peters and you know Tom Buck and others that keep me informed but I don't have time to Follow all the stuff like I saw what happened at the

01:43:48

SBC, but I haven't had a chance to start reading it yet I'm gonna hopefully do that tonight, but Yeah, you know you'll be as bald as I am by the time you pull all your hair out from reading all these articles

01:43:59

It is it's insane What's what you're gonna see in there The real danger and all this though is that we see this here in Cleveland, Ohio There's been a number of churches that it just gets slipped in somebody brings it in under the guise of let's root out racism and Instead it's literally a reverse racism and they're bringing in the whole social justice movements into churches

01:44:24

Well, it's actually not a reverse racism Well racism by its definition, it's that they've they're

01:44:30

They redefine racism and now racism is about economic status

01:44:38

So, I mean it's like I've had I've had african -americans who told me they can't be racist because they're oppressed

01:44:46

I Don't know they they get into that, you know, like I I know my kids being even half

01:44:52

Asian couldn't get Scholarships for being a minority and the reason I was told that they're not a minority as Asians is because they're smart enough

01:45:03

So it doesn't minority doesn't mean minority it means do you need extra help and The the the thing that you ended up seeing is that you have plenty of people who

01:45:14

I'm working hard To to take care of my kids, but they can't get a scholarships in in college

01:45:22

And then you have other people who just because they're a certain color of skin or whatever determined They get all these scholarships that are available to them

01:45:33

So that they can get into college now, I think it's good to have everyone get have an opportunity to get into college

01:45:39

But when you start saying well certain people can get the benefits of you know They're saying that we have a privilege and I'm going well,

01:45:46

I'm not seeing it because Getting your scholarships paid for for college I was like two hundred thousand dollars per kid that seems like an awful lot of privilege to not have to pay that Right, right.

01:45:59

You're too high on the privilege scale Andrew just Yeah, I mean, you know,

01:46:04

I I remember I remember Vodibach him talking this has got to be five or six years ago now where He was he was called

01:46:13

That white guy who looks like us by Africans when he was when he was this is before he

01:46:20

Left his church in Houston resigned and went over to you know, I went over there permanently

01:46:26

He was he was on some type of trip in Africa I can't remember where but we saw him at a homeschooling conference here in Cleveland And he said that he was a he was they said that he

01:46:39

Looks he he looks like us, but he talks and acts

01:46:45

Like the white guy, so they were actually calling him a white guy who looks like us Vody, it's one of those things are really stuck in my mind.

01:46:53

This is before the whole social justice movement thing hits. It's And so I bring this up because it's when they look at the

01:47:03

Bill Cosby's remember Bill Cosby What 15 or 20 years, I know it's a bad name now but 15 20 years ago when the whole ebonics movement was hit or it was was was hitting right and Bill Cosby came out said wait a minute guys.

01:47:16

What are you doing? Why would we why would we make up this other language for English? Instead of teaching

01:47:25

African -americans correct English. Why are we pretending? There's another way to speak English and And he was vilified for it

01:47:32

And so what you find is that is that the African -americans that have stood up against this nonsense

01:47:40

Have been literally tossed aside in this whole movement Even today. I mean we we saw

01:47:46

Vody Bokum speak at g3 right the pre -conference the whole social justice pre -conference thing and He made it

01:47:52

He made a joke about it there that he was gonna be vilified for his stance because he's a black guy that is literally

01:47:58

Broke ranks from well the the guy from Just thinking podcast, you know,

01:48:05

Daryl and Virgil They've been called all kinds names uncle Tom and also because you know as they point out on their podcast

01:48:11

There's a great podcast just thinking podcast, but as they point out The whole issue of racism no longer has to do with the color of skin or the melanin in skin

01:48:21

It has to do with a social economic Argument okay, and So they're not they're white because they're not supporting these ideas that should be supportive of socialism and The reality is it's it's it's socialism's failed every time.

01:48:42

It's tried Yeah They'll do it better. Yeah. Well, we can point back to scripture

01:48:48

I mean, I Want to hear somebody complain about why God gave one person ten talents another one five talents on the one two talents or one a camera was it one five and ten to five and ten, but Why are they complaining about that?

01:49:02

I mean we have to understand to you that that God has allowed some people have more some people have less

01:49:09

Right, isn't this part of the argument today? Mm -hmm So, you know, they really have an issue with God himself

01:49:19

It really shouldn't be directed at at who they blame Which is the white male for oppressing everybody one ten and a hundred is what

01:49:30

Vincent has So because we're gonna have to wrap it up we do have an after show and I'll get you guys the link

01:49:40

We didn't we didn't give shout outs to our you know Some of the sponsors and for the show we we the show is sponsored

01:49:48

Well sort of Mets like live is actually sponsored by my pillow But we try to help out Mets like live to as Matt said with the radio show that he does

01:49:57

They gave a great deal. And so we try to get back to the radio station a bit with my pillow

01:50:04

Both Matt and I use it. So we're not promoting something. We don't love But I took mine to the

01:50:09

Philippines. I Wouldn't have gone without it. I might have dropped some other things by the side, but not my pillow

01:50:17

But if you want to get a my pillow call 1 -800 -944 -5396

01:50:24

That's 1 -800 -944 -5396 let them know that you heard about it on apologetics live and Mets like live so we're this is a ministry of striving for eternity

01:50:37

If you guys want to hear this in podcast form these get turned into podcast They will usually every either the day after or the week after depending if we got backed up, but we did get backed up now

01:50:50

So tomorrow will be Anthony Sylvester Oh convincing Mets like that. The earth is actually young.

01:50:56

I haven't listened to it yet, but That's convinced actually

01:51:01

I think he was always convinced he just doesn't want to admit it He's he likes to look see he agrees with scripture.

01:51:08

It's just that simple, but But But this is a podcast you could go to apologetics live in any podcast app and listen to it

01:51:17

You could check out my podcast rap report this week Sunday, I will probably be dealing with more of the issues that we dealt with in the beginning of this pot or this show

01:51:27

I will deal with women's roles in the church. I've gotten a lot of heat on some comments

01:51:33

I made over at the Philippines some comments I made about Beth Moore It seems that This the arguments made for women pastors women preachers are very bad arguments

01:51:47

And I'm gonna probably tackle those this Sunday. And so I encourage you to check out rap report

01:51:53

There's two of them a daily Monday through Friday two minutes a day if you want some short devotional type things

01:51:59

If you want something longer just go to the rap report and get that they're all Part of the

01:52:04

Christian podcast community if you want to check out the rest of our podcast just go to Christian Christian podcast community dot o

01:52:14

RG and You will get that there. So with that I think

01:52:19

Matt I'm gonna give you the link here for the after show if you guys want to grab that give you guys a couple of seconds or so to Go over there before I drop it into the

01:52:32

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01:52:37

Monetization these videos the super chats, which are glad that we got I think it was $24 tonight from different people that goes to calm org and we appreciate that and But if you would like to help striving for eternity, you can go to striving for eternity dot o

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01:53:22

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01:53:28

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RG slash Donate so we got it. We thank you guys

01:54:19

Matt. Thanks for your time coming in here again and Joining us answering some tough questions

01:54:24

Dr. Silvestro for spinning that up because it's always fun to watch Matt's face when he gets spun up.

01:54:31

Yeah Sorry, Matt You guys aren't sorry, I just can't believe you hadn't heard that stuff before I've been reading it all day today.

01:54:42

It's it's Still calming down from it Yeah, it's pretty bad.

01:54:48

Yeah, maybe you know, I'll have a I'll do some research on it We could have a conversation you're ahead of me so we can figure it out.

01:54:53

But yeah, it needs to be talked about No, we got to do that live. So we look in your face when you hear these things is just classic

01:55:02

And we do think Charlie's fine Charlie is super quick with the links Giving links in the chat.

01:55:08

I mean he I think he knows karma better than Matt slick. I'm just getting there. Do you know? We appreciate

01:55:15

James coming in from five solos ministry Vincent from the council and You guys are all we thank you all for coming in next week.

01:55:25

We'll have another show and Please come in with your questions be respectful.

01:55:31

No giving the middle finger You will get booted for things like that if you want to set up a debate.

01:55:38

Hey, listen, that's what this is for Just contact me at info at striving for eternity dot o -r -g and We could set up that debate whether you want it with Matt you want it with me you give a topic

01:55:50

We try to work it out, but something tells me Andre you blew your chance.