December 29, 2020 Show with Samuel Sey on “The New Socially Acceptable Racism”

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This is Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 29th day of December 2020 and I am thrilled to have as a first time guest today at the great enthusiastic urging of my webmaster

Eric Nielsen Samuel Say a Ghanaian Canadian and the community liaison at the

Canadian Center for Bioethical Reform who is committed to addressing racial cultural and political issues with biblical theology in an attempt to be quick to listen and slow to speak.

Samuel's words have been featured on the Statement on Social Justice, The Blaze, Relatable with Ali Stuckey, brightbart .com,

challis .com, Alpha and Omega Ministries, the Ezra Institute, wretched .org,

desiringgod .com and more and he is the host of slow2write .com.

Today we are addressing the new socially acceptable racism and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Samuel Say.

Thank you so much for having me sir. I'm pinching myself knowing that I'm on this show.

I've been listening to this show for a long time with a lot of my heroes on it and I'm very grateful that you have me sir.

Thank you. Oh my pleasure and it's so great to know that, it's so great to discover that you've been listening for a long time and benefiting greatly from the show.

Yeah, I've relied on the show for a lot of determinants over the years so I'll be honest

I'm very nervous being on the show myself. I'm like what am I doing here? Well you know a lot of people ask me what are you doing here meaning why am

I even hosting the show? But I'm sure after a reasonably short period of time you'll become very relaxed knowing that this is just like a conversation between two brothers over a coffee table and before we go into your personal salvation testimony which is a tradition here whenever we have first time guests on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Why don't you tell us about Slow2Write .com? Yeah, I started

Slow2Write .com in 2015. It's been five years ever since I started blogging which is surreal to me.

I didn't think I could write five articles let alone lasting for five years. But I started it because at the time like almost everywhere else in the world a lot of my friends here in Toronto were embracing

Black Lives Matter and that took me by surprise.

I was quite surprised about that. I knew that when

Trayvon Martin was killed in Florida in 2013 that led to big discussions between my friends and I and similar issues also here in Canada.

I never imagined that within two years that Black Lives Matter would become so entrenched in some people's minds and embracing it.

So I thought, you know what, instead of calling every single one of my friends and just talking to them about these issues

I thought, you know what, let me write a blog and perhaps by writing a blog I can make it easier for them to access it.

So I started a series on Black Lives Matter on my blog and eventually

I just realized that there were bigger issues just outside of Black Lives Matter.

There was other things happening as well too within the church that I saw coming. Unfortunately, I didn't think it would happen this fast but if you go back to my other articles you'll realize that I was warning that these ideologies are going to become that much more prominent within the church.

And unfortunately here we are, especially after this year with George Floyd's death. So on the blog

I write practically, as I said before, about racial issues, cultural issues, political issues, hopefully with Biblical theology.

I trust Biblical theology. Of course I'm also reforming at the same time.

I've grown more theologically strong I think over the last five years. So yeah, also as I said before,

I work for CCBR which is the Canadian Center for Bioethical Reform.

I am the community liaison there. I work with churches and pastors to get them more involved in the pro -life movement.

And that really started because the more I was blogging about racial issues, especially about Black Lives Matter, I realized that the abortion issue is the biggest issue facing not just black people but facing the whole world.

There are 15 million babies across the world that are killed every year. And I want to repeat, 15 million.

Abortion is the biggest cause of death in the world. And I became more and more convinced that I need to do something.

I didn't want to just be a blogger writing on social media or on my blog. I wanted to do something to save babies, especially black babies, since I had some friends of mine who had abortions and I had the opportunity before to save them.

But in my ignorance at the time and not being a believer at the time, I didn't know what to say. So I wanted to be involved now to save pre -born babies.

So anyway, yeah, that's my story, to write a blog about abortion and all the other issues. And can you tell us a little bit more about exactly what the

Canadian Center for Bioethical Reform does? Yeah, so there are three camps of the pro -life movement.

There is the political side. There is the pastoral side, which is more like the pregnancy care centers and things like that.

And then you have the educational aspect, which is what we do at CCBR. We want to educate the church and culture in general about what abortion really does to babies.

So we offer a—we're basically an apologetic group, where we want to give people a theological, scientific, and philosophical basis to affirm that pre -born babies are indeed human and they deserve the right to live.

And, you know, so when we go to churches, we share all these things, including also the gospel as it applies to pre -born babies and how to react to that, and then also when we are out there in the streets.

So we also very much—one of the things we know is that so many people are either still pro -abortion or they are not actively fighting against abortion because they don't quite understand what happens to babies when they get murdered in the womb.

So we show people pictures of aborted babies, and that's very controversial. I guess I like to be around controversial issues or things, but when people see an aborted baby, they see an aborted human.

And when they see that—we've done research on this, and our research shows that 70 % of people who see the images, they develop more negative feelings about abortion.

And that's before we even talk to them. That's before we even share the gospel with them. So that's what we do at CCBR.

Praise God. Yes, in fact, I know a woman. She's actually the woman that led me to Christ in the 1980s.

And she had a book of photographs, not of aborted babies, but actually of the development of life in the mother's womb from conception to moments before delivery.

And she had a friend who was using crack.

And the doctor was urging her to get an abortion because the doctor was fairly convinced that the baby would have severe brain damage or other negative effects from the mother's habitual use of crack.

So she was all set to have this abortion until my friend Susan, who led me to Christ, sat down with her with this book of photographs.

And those photographs convinced her that what was inside her was a human being. And she had the baby, and the baby was completely normal.

That happens a lot. That happens a lot. Stories like that are, praise

God, common. But unfortunately, there are so many stories of your friend like Susan not being there.

And because of that, many women and parents in general are being manipulated into killing their babies.

And of course, in Planned Parenthood, they won't show these pictures of babies developing in the womb, which leads to many of these women who, of course, may have sinful desires as well and want to protect their privileges and the life that they think they should have and want to kill their own babies.

But nevertheless, likewise, for Planned Parenthood, they do manipulate many of these women into killing babies by making them think that they're not really giving birth to a child even.

Well, as I said before, since you are a first -time guest on High Entrepreneur Zion Radio, I would love for you now to give a summary of your salvation testimony, or what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were raised in, and what kind of providential circumstances did our

Sovereign Lord raise up in your life that drew you to Himself and saved you? Yeah.

So, I suppose it has to start in Ghana. I was born and raised in Ghana because I was 10 years old.

I grew up with a single mother who was one of the godliest and wisest people

I'll ever know. She was a single mom because my dad left the family before I was born.

When I was pregnant with me, he abandoned my mom and myself in Ghana. He moved to Nigeria, and we've never seen him since.

We don't know if he's alive or dead. I mention that because I was raised by my single mom, and really raised in the church.

My earliest memories are my mom and I walking an hour to church every morning and an hour back from church every morning.

Unfortunately, my mom was a very godless woman. I was raised in a prosperity gospel church in Ghana. When I moved to Canada, and yet, on occasion, the gospel would be preached even in this environment.

So, I knew as early as five years old that I was a hell -bound sinner. I knew. That's because, perhaps without going into too much detail,

I was committing sins that most would think only adults would be committing.

I was involved in sexual offense from five years old onwards.

That's really in large part, of course, because of my own human nature and my sinfulness, but also because my mom was working two jobs and working very hard and barely home.

Because of that, I was not disciplined, and I was exposed to certain things that I shouldn't have been exposed to at a very young age.

So, I knew that I was an awful sinner who deserved a wrath of God.

I was very afraid of death. Whenever I closed my eyes, I was afraid because I was afraid of the darkness.

I was afraid of knowing what would be the punishment of my sins.

When we moved to Canada, I continued the same sinful lifestyle. My mom was not privy to this, but nevertheless,

I barely missed church at all every Sunday. One of these

Sundays, a lady introduced me to a young adult retreat from my church.

I went to this retreat. I was 19 by this time, and I was still living a very sinful lifestyle, sexual sin.

This is a prosperity gospel church. This is full of heresy.

Yet, there was a female pastor within that church that preached a horrible sermon.

But within that horrible one -hour sermon, there was just one phrase that was true, which is,

Christ died for sinners. I remember hearing that.

I've heard that many times throughout my life. But that day, it just clicked.

I said, I'm a sinner. I'm a sinner. I said, Christ died for me.

Right away, I hated my sins, and I loved Christ. I could not fathom doing anything else with my life without wanting to be honorable to Christ.

I wanted to honor Christ. Christ, frankly, was worthless to me until that time.

All of a sudden, He was precious to me. That, of course, is not because Christ is worthless.

It's because I, myself, was so blinded by sin that I did not see Christ's beauty before my eyes.

All of a sudden, I hated my sins, and I loved Christ. I had never read the

Bible before, really. I would read it, I suppose, with my mom once in a while at church. But when

I came back, my Bible was so unread that it was dusty. I had to remove the dust from it all and even buy a new one.

I actually ended up buying from a deacon in my church. I don't think he knew what he was recommending to me.

I think he was recommending that I buy a commentary or a study Bible that many of us will remember as the

MacArthur Study Bible. I didn't know at the time what God was doing in my life then, but I bought the book, and I bought some other books as well, including the commentary as well.

The more I read, I realized that what I was raised in, the church that I was raised in, or the prosperity gospel that I was raised in,

I realized that that was heresy. That is not the gospel. That is not biblical theology.

A year after my salvation, this is 14 years ago, so a year after that in 2007,

I learned Reformed theology a year after my salvation.

Then I'm learning that the prosperity gospel is heresy. I'm learning that I'm actually a

Baptist now. I'm not really a Pentecostal anymore. That was hard for me because I knew that I had to leave my church.

This is the church that, over the last year, all my greatest friends and my family really were in.

I made a difficult choice. A year afterward, praying and seeking wisdom from MacArthur's sermons and Paul Washer's and Charles Spurgeon and all these men who had become my heroes,

I learned that I had to leave my church and that I could not become a compulsory Lutheran and try to reform the church.

I left there. I ended up, since I didn't fully understand

Reformed theology, I ended up going to some churches that said they were Reformed, but they weren't really that Reformed.

That was, not to offend anybody here, but there was a church that was the

Christian Reformed church, a Dutch Reformed church. That was very fascinating. There was this Ghanaian guy involved in this

Dutch Reformed church that was interesting. Anyway, they were moving towards a liberal theology.

Then I ended up going to another Dutch Reformed church, a Canadian Reformed church, which is pretty similar to the

PCA. They were strong. They were good. They were very helpful. Increasingly, I knew that I could not stay there because I did not believe in baptism.

So, I ended up leaving. By the grace of God, I became a member after a few years at Grace Fellowship Church, which is pastored by my mentor,

Tim Chalice. Yes, Tim has been on this program a number of times. Yeah, I know that.

He's been extremely kind to me. No man has ever been as loving to me as Tim has.

Honestly, without him, I would not be able to blog. He taught me a lot about writing and just being a better man, but really also being a better blogger as well.

Anyway, that would be my testimony. Praise God. Well, tell me about your being drawn into the whole discussion of race and racism and the particular position you have taken.

You take a very conservative and biblically orthodox and theologically sound approach to this whole issue.

When did this start to offend you so deeply? I'm speaking of things like the woke movement, critical race theory, and other things that the leftists have championed and really turned into a new religion.

Tell us about your journey into opposing that publicly. I suppose the first time

I became invested in this issue was way back in 2008 during Barack Obama's election.

One of the things that some Americans may not know is that Canada is very much influenced by American politics and American culture.

In many ways, Canada is shaped by American culture. For example,

I would guess 60 % of our media is American media, both entertainment -wise and news media.

That has a big impact on us. In 2008, my church, which is a black church, an

Aghanian African church, my pastors had fully embraced

Barack Obama. They were championing him as a hero. That really concerned me.

I couldn't believe it. I was like, wait a minute, he is pro -abortion and pro -several liberal values that my church would presumably not hold to.

I couldn't understand that. I thought, wait a minute, you support him just because he's black? That's really it?

I thought that believers should be well above that. We shouldn't care about someone's skin color.

We should just care about their theology or their ideology or their character. That was the first time that really concerned me.

I actually wrote an article on Facebook. Facebook did have Facebook notes, and I wrote a note on it actually talking about that way back,

I guess, 12 years ago. That was the first time. Then, shortly after that, in 2013, like I mentioned before, when

Trayvon Martin was killed, I saw people moving more towards a pro -black sentiment.

That really concerned me. I had always learned from men like John MacArthur and Paul Washer and Charles Spurgeon, James White, Bo Johnson, all these men.

I had learned. Then, of course, also through my pastors as well, Tim Challies and everybody else.

On every issue, we have to look at what does the Bible say? When all these issues are becoming prominent and Black Lives Matter is growing in popularity and people are reacting to Michael Brown being killed in Ferguson by a cop,

I'm thinking, okay, how do I understand these issues? It should be, well, what the

Bible say and not what the critical race do to say. I can investigate what they say. I can read what they say.

Ultimately, if they are against the scriptures, if they are anti -Christ, I'm going to align with scripture. I'm going to align with Christ.

That is how I ended up being involved in these issues and blogging.

Especially what really, I suppose, helped me become, I guess, a more prominent voice was in 2018 when you had the

MLK50 conference and the T4G conference as well where elements of critical race theory and liberation theology were being taught from these men that I admire.

Then I started writing more prominently, making that a more central focus of my blog.

That's how I ended up being involved in this issue. We're going to be going to our first break right now.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arms. And if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with a little bit less than 90 minutes to go is

Samuel Say who is host of slow2write .com Today we are addressing the new socially acceptable racism.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Samuel, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com And as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Well, reading right off of your website, Samuel, you say that the most socially acceptable form of racism today is not white supremacy.

It is critical race theory. White supremacist books are not bestsellers.

Critical race theory books are. Richard Spencer's racist ideology, and by the way, for those of our listeners who are unfamiliar with him, and I thank

God if they're not familiar with him, he's a neo -Nazi racist activist and author, but Richard Spencer's racist ideology did not shape widespread protests and riots this year, and it's not influencing academia, businesses, churches, and culture.

Unlike them, ex -Kendi's racist ideology, only one of these racists has been named one of the 100 most influential people in the world by Time Magazine, and it's not

Richard Spencer. Ibram ex -Kendi is a history professor and the founding director of the

Boston University Center for Anti -Racist Research, but most notably, he's the author of How to Be an

Anti -Racist. Next to Robin DiAngelo's White Fragility, How to Be an

Anti -Racist is the bestselling critical race theory book over the last year. Now, going back to the original statement here that white supremacy is not the most socially acceptable form of racism today, make your case for that, including the other things that we mentioned from your quotes, and tell us about who

Ibram ex -Kendi is. Yeah, I know that statement might surprise a few people, but as you said, as you quoted from the article, two of the most popular bestsellers or the biggest bestsellers over the last year or two have been

White Fragility and How to Be an Anti -Racist by Robin DiAngelo and Ibram ex -Kendi respectively.

So, I'm just going to be sure, I just checked just to see how popular Richard Spencer's books were, and they are not,

I mean, they're on Amazon too, but they don't have a lot of popularity. In fact, most people buy the books that are condemning him.

And he would be the most popular white supremacist today, yet he has very little influence, very minimal.

Every institution today condemns him and his ideologies.

On the other hand, almost every group today, almost every institution today celebrates

Ibram ex -Kendi. In fact, many of them are adopting his so -called anti -racist policies, which are absolutely racist.

In his book, he explicitly says that racial discrimination against white people isn't wrong, and it is not racism.

If it's producing, in his own words, racial equity.

By racial equity, he means racial parity, equality of outcome for black people.

So, in other words, it's okay, even though he wouldn't call it racist, it's okay to be racist, to discriminate against a white person, so long as black people will benefit from that.

That's racist. And yet, you have many people that are being influenced by him, not just in the world, but even within the

Church. And some of them don't even hide this. I always say before I mention people's names,

I think it's helpful for people to understand what's happening here. One of the most popular Christian books on race over the last couple of years has been

The Call of Compromise by a man named Jamar Tisby. Not only has he endorsed how to be an anti -racist, he's writing a book with Ibram Kendi.

And this is what we have right now in society and within the Church. And, of course, you also have other people, including

Charlie Bates, who just wrote an article maybe a week or so ago, saying that in light of Abba Mahler and the presidents of the

SBC seminaries condemning critical race theory, as being incompatible with biblical theology, or especially the

Baptist faith, he's saying that he's pulling his church out of it because he's embraced critical race theory.

So in society, you have now a lot of people who are endorsing and embracing anti -racism, or more broadly, critical race theory, which in and of itself is all about wanting to discriminate against white people, because the belief is white people have a hegemony or an influence on people today that's oppressive.

Therefore, the only way to remove that oppression, the only way to dismantle white supremacy, is to discriminate against white people, to create parity and justice for black people.

Now, not all of them will perhaps phrase it the way Ibram X. Kendi does, and because of that, he's got himself in trouble with some critical race theorists.

In some ways, he's more honest than the other critical race theorists. The others might just say, well, we just believe in wanting to analyze and change or dismantle white supremacy in our culture.

That's basically what they would say. But when you ask them for specifics, it will always come down to being racist against white people.

Now, they, those that promote the woke movement and cultural race theory and so on, they would insist that what they embrace as their own ideology is not racism.

In fact, many among them will insist that it is actually impossible for a black person, perhaps they will include some other minorities that have darker skin colors, but it is impossible, especially for a black person, to be a racist.

Now, this is mind -boggling, isn't it? This is a real clear example of racism when you're basically saying that somebody is morally superior to others because of something as ridiculous as the melanin content of their skin.

I mean, isn't this just pure insanity? Exactly. Now, mind you, they believe that black people can be racist so long as it's directed at other black people, right?

Which I agree with. You can be racist towards every group. However, for them, they're saying that black people cannot be racist.

Although, it's starting to change a little bit now because I think they're seeing more blowbacks. So, Ibram X. Kendi says that, well, black people can be racist.

But, of course, he would not identify himself as one. He would say that they can be racist if they are not promoting racial equity within their racism against white people.

Right? Because for him, racism is all about producing racist ideas or policies that produce inequality.

So, they're changing that a little bit now. However, they would say that black people can be racist against other black people if they are not agreeing with critical race theory.

Right. Just like they would say probably the majority of black police officers are racist. Exactly.

Exactly. And, very importantly, too, I'm glad you mentioned that because they don't believe that racism has to be intentional.

In fact, they would say that often it is not. They would say it's... Now, they believe that racism is not aberrational.

It's normal. It's just the norm in society, especially the West. But, it's the norm in that it's built in into the system.

It's just a culture. Right? That way, you don't have to be an intentional racist to be racist.

That's why Reverend D 'Angelo says that every white person is born a racist. Every white person. Which, of course, is in and of itself racist.

But, she believes that by saying that, by, in her mind, admitting to that, she is being an anti -racist.

So, by accepting that, they don't believe that it has to be intentional. In fact, they believe that if you believe that racism is intentional, if you agree with the

Bible, that it is partiality. That it is making distinctions amongst groups. If you believe that, that in and of itself is racist.

So, it concerns me that so many Christians are embracing these ideas because it is anti -Christ.

It refers to the Bible itself. In fact, there's a book that I just bought a few days ago, and the book is called

White Christian Privilege, which is a complete attack on biblical

Christianity, where it says that the West, especially America, as it's built on Christian principles, that in and of itself gives a privilege to Christians, but especially white

Christians. So, Christians today who are embracing these critical race theory concepts of white privilege and all that, they are embracing ideologies that's really, ultimately, going to be our demise, right?

Because the whole point here is not really to end racism. That's not the goal here. The goal is to use

Marxist and post -modernist views to dismantle what they will refer to as white supremacy, but they really mean biblical values that shapes

Western society to produce a socialist state. They won't oftentimes be as honest as that, but Ibram X.

Kendi says that, you know, if you are not an anti -capitalist, you are a racist.

So, it's concerning that you have people within the Church who are embracing these ideas. These ideas are not really new.

They've been, you know, it started from Marx, and it's been progressing more radically since then.

Believe it or not, there are people who are being much more, Ibram X. Kendi is much more radical than Karl Marx was.

But the problem is, throughout the Church, for the most part, we've always been rejecting these ideas.

Now, the concern is, it's Christians who are, in some cases, being some of the most radical members of this, and that's quite concerning.

Yeah, it's especially concerning since, and you and I happen to be theologically reformed in our makeup, and knowing that this exists amongst our theological kinsmen.

This is existing amongst those that profess to be theologically reformed Christians.

Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's in large part because critical race theory is especially focused on dismantling the prevailing powerful ideas for truth.

And I think something I've been thinking about for a while, because reformed theology, reformed people seem to be the most vulnerable people to this.

That's for several reasons. But one of them, I think, is because reformed theology naturally is diametrically opposed to critical race theory.

So if you can destroy and dismantle reformed theology, everybody else is vulnerable.

And I think that is in large part why you see that. And people also naturally have a, knowing that historically a lot of reformed people, now it was not just reformed people, but because a lot of reformed heroes did own slaves, and because some reformed people were not actively teaching against segregation and racism, there is a bitterness that's grappled to many people, and they are therefore becoming vulnerable to critical race theory.

And nevertheless, of course, as a church, as the church, we are not perfect, and we are full of sin.

Our bridegroom is the perfect one. But yet, of course, it was also reformed people who abolished slavery.

And while the Civil Rights Movement was not shaped by reformed theology, reformed people were very influential.

For example, you have Carl Henry, who was very influential for the Civil Rights Movement.

And I think sometimes we've hurt ourselves as reformed people by being embarrassed about our history.

Oftentimes, we talk about our history, and we're always like, you know, it's so sad that we were not better than we were.

Now, yes, at the church, we're always going to be sinful, but we were the light of the world still in slavery.

We were the light of the world still in segregation. And even now, even though the church, you know, should be doing better on abortion, we are still the light of the world against abortion, too.

We are always the light of the world. But when you change that, and you believe we were part of the darkness, that we were not the light of the world, then you make yourself vulnerable to believing that critical race theory is right about Reformed theology and Christianity really being part of the problem.

And I'm assuming that there may be a part to play in the desire of many

Reformed Christians to see more black

Christians and even unbelievers to not only become Christian, but to see more blacks come into the

Reformed faith. And perhaps because we have such a tiny minority right now, although it is growing, a tiny minority of blacks in the

Reformed faith, there may be more of a tendency to try to appeal to what these

Reformed Christians think will be a draw to more black folks.

I'm just assuming that this may be a part of it. Oh, absolutely. I read an article about this.

So if I agree with you, you must be right, sir. I'm just joking. No, but yeah,

I've written about this, and that's absolutely one of the biggest reasons why. I was one of those guys who became

Reformed, and we just invaded these Reformed churches. Many of my friends in Canada and America and the

UK, we all became Reformed together, and we were always talking amongst ourselves, and we all joined these other churches.

And it became very, I think, of course, to celebrate diversity.

The Bible talks about how in the new heavens and the new earth, you're going to have all tribes and all tongues worshiping, really singing the same song to our same

Savior. And that's a beautiful thing. But when that was happening, I think a bit of a pride happened where a lot of people were celebrating themselves for being able to attract black people, when it was really just the truth.

Black people are not aliens. We are just as sinful as anybody else, and by the grace of God, we also desire truth just like everybody else.

In fact, we're going to pick up right where you left off there, because we have to go to our midway break. And folks, please be patient with us.

This is the longer than normal break in the middle of the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show so that they can air their own public service announcements and other things that localize

Iron Shepherds Iron to Lake City, Florida. And while they do that, we air our own globally heard commercials.

So please use this time wisely. Write down information provided by our advertisers so that you can more faithfully, more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers, and therefore they will more than likely want to remain our advertisers, which will subsequently mean that we will remain on the air for a longer future, because we absolutely depend on the finances that come in from our advertisers.

So please try to patronize them as much as possible, and also send them questions to Samuel Say. At ChrisArns and at gmail .com.

ChrisArns and at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages. Here's what

Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, had to say about Iron Shepherds Iron Radio recently.

Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Shepherds Iron Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m.

Eastern Time, at ironshepherdsironradio .com. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the

Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the

Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris, if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

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Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the

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Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the

Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the

Bible. HBS's founder, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, is committed to sharing this collection along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church.

Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org. The collection includes a complete 11th century

Bible, an actual page of the Gutenberg Bible from 1455, the first book ever printed, the

Geneva Bible, the 1611 King James Bible, and much, much more. Visit historicalbiblesociety .org

today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

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Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.

Or visit LindbrookBaptist .org. That's LindbrookBaptist .org. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, a frequent co -host with Chris Ironson on Iron Sharpman's Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this,

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He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness and the beauty in what

God has designed and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

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When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness which can be very serious.

Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great

God like the psalmist did. May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And please don't forget folks that solid -ground -books .com

is a premier, a primary, a vital sponsor of this program.

Without their financial support we would likely not continue to exist, barring a miracle from God.

So please visit solid -ground -books .com frequently and purchase generously from them.

And I always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Also folks,

I just want to make a few announcements before we return to our guest Samuel Say and more of our discussion on the new socially acceptable racism.

Tomorrow we have a mutual friend of Samuel Say's and mine joining us as our guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Dr.

Tony Costa, who's been on this program many times. The Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

He is going to be giving an evaluation of the church in Canada right now.

With all the politically correct things going on there that have been seeking to destroy the church.

In fact, I believe one of Dr. Costa's friends was recently arrested because he refused to shut down the church during this

COVID hysteria. I hope that you tune in tomorrow for Dr.

Tony Costa and I'm sure that you will be blessed and enlightened. Also, on New Year's Eve that would be

Thursday, the 31st, we have returning on the program Bishop Peter Robinson.

Bishop Robinson is the presiding bishop of the

United Episcopal Church of North America, which is a very conservative, confessional, biblically faithful denomination and a breakaway from the much more liberal and some would say apostate

Episcopal Church, although there are some faithful congregations in the main denomination of Episcopal Churches.

It is really quickly those faithful churches are quickly becoming further fewer and farther between.

So, looking forward to having Bishop Peter D. Robinson join us again and we have not yet settled on a topic but I'm sure whatever it is will be an enlightening experience for all of you listening.

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If us remaining on the air would please you, then please help us to remain on the air. Also, folks, if you are not a member of a local

Bible -believing church, no matter where on the planet Earth you live, I do have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the globe, and I've helped many people in our audience from all parts of the world find churches, sometimes within just a few minutes of where they lived, that they didn't even know existed, or they didn't know that they were biblically faithful.

So, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put, I need a church in the subject line, and God willing,

I'll be able to help you find a church or help you find a church for someone that you love who is without a church.

Or if you're just looking for a church while you're on vacation, whatever the case may be, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put, I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to samuel say, and we are discussing the new socially acceptable racism, and that email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com I just want to make sure, Samuel, that you finished your thought that you were making right before the break, you were saying that the reason why blacks have come to the

Reformed faith is because they were desirous of hearing and learning and embracing truth.

That it was not because of any gimmick or other thing involved, and that's quite a sad thing when those that profess to be

Reformed who believe in the sufficiency of Scripture and the inerrancy of Scripture would resort to the gimmickry that used to be the sole the sole backyard, if you will, of the

Arminians. The seeker sensitive movement and all that kind of thing. But we now see our

Reformed brethren using gimmicks that would even include critical race theory and other things to draw those from the black community into our midst.

But this is really a sad situation, isn't it? Yeah. Just, I think, a week or two ago

Saddleback Church, which is pastored by Rick Warren, just had a black... I think they announced they were going to have a black...

I don't know if they already had it or not, but they announced they were going to have a black -only service, maybe virtual service, but nevertheless still a black -only service.

They said if you were white, essentially stay home. And I was thinking to myself, if this happened maybe 10 years ago, every

Reformed person would denounce it as just a seeker sensitive approach by Rick Warren.

But yet, you probably can't get that now, because a lot of other Reformed churches have done the exact same thing.

Including major organizations having black -only type services themselves.

So this is where we find ourselves now, where New Calvinism or the Young Reformed group, it was really created as a response to the sensitive movement of the emerging church.

And yet, unfortunately, by trying to be... trying to produce multi -ethnic churches, which, by the way,

I want to be very clear here, I'm a black person. I go to a multi - ethnic church, and I love multi -ethnic churches.

But multi -ethnic churches are not better than, you know, churches that are made up of only one group.

It doesn't mean anything. It's a good thing if God calls for that. As Reformed people, we should realize that we preach the gospel,

God provides the souls. And any time you make, really, an idol out of racial diversity or ethnic diversity, inevitably, you're going to want to try to maintain that or to increase that.

That's what's happening. Where many people, I mean, really, I know it might sound harsh, but I don't know how else to phrase it, there's no way in the

Bible where it tells you that you're supposed to appeal to certain groups. Preach the gospel to all people, absolutely.

To all people. But God is the one that will bring them, if you are obeying

Him, if you are being faithful, He will be the one to bring them to your church. But because many of us have to leave, we need to appeal to different groups.

We are now in a position where we are very vulnerable, very tempted to embrace critical race theory to keep them coming to our churches.

Now, let me have you clarify something about that. The church where I was saved on Long Island, New York, it was called at the time

Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, Long Island, and it later merged with First Baptist Church of Merrick, Long Island, and became

Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick. But back in the days when we were

Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, the church was actually physically located in a predominantly black neighborhood in an area of North Amityville that was almost exclusively black, and yet our church was really white.

And this did concern me as a new believer, and I approached my pastor and said,

I think that we should have a conference with somebody that I think is one of the most remarkable preachers on the radio right now, and his name was

Dr. Robert J. Cameron, who is now with the Lord. He passed away of colon cancer a number of years ago.

But Dr. Cameron was a black PCA pastor who later became an

Orthodox Presbyterian pastor, and we had a conference at our church, and we put photographs, a photograph of him on a flyer which we had posted all over the community, and we did get quite a number of black folks visit, and a number of those families stayed and remained there well over two decades later.

And I thought that was a healthy thing, and it wasn't gimmickry, because we weren't just picking anybody to speak at our church that happened to be black.

This man was in theological harmony with us, and he was also an extraordinary preacher. But don't you think there is a right attitude to want to reflect the community that surrounds you, and if you're doing nothing to reach that community, that could be just as much of a problem as the other side of the spectrum being involved in critical race theory?

Absolutely. I'm glad you asked me to clarify that. Absolutely, because the key thing there is, what is the motivation?

Right? So, for example, if, you know, say your church for example, if they had reached out to every single person, leaving no stone unturned, and yet their church was still not reflecting the community, that is not a problem.

If they're being faithful and preaching the word of God to every single person, for whatever reason, they're not receiving more people of other ethnicities within their church, that is not something they should be criticized for.

Because our goal is simply to preach the gospel. We're not to expect whom

God will bring to our doors. And that's the issue I'm pointing to. Now, absolutely, we should again, we should go to every neighborhood, we should go to every single area we possibly can within our communities, and reach out to people.

And there's nothing wrong with wanting your church to reflect the community. That is not wrong.

Nevertheless, the goal is, you don't want a racial quota within your members.

You don't want that. That's not what God calls us for. God calls us to love our neighbors and to serve them.

And that we should pray and hope that we would never dismiss or fail to reach out to every single person within our communities.

And that whoever God, after doing that, whatever God brings to our church, let's welcome them with joy.

And that's what I'm calling to, because the other way around, when we say that our churches absolutely have to reflect our communities, without explaining what we mean by that, then we suggest that it's ungodly if there is either a black, almost all black church in a white community, or there is an almost all white church in a black community.

The outcome doesn't prove there is a failure necessarily, if, of course, they're not failing to reach out to all groups.

Is that helpful? Is that clear? Oh yeah. And it just reminded me of two humorous stories.

One of them involves me driving home at night in my former town, which

I just mentioned before, Amityville, Long Island. And I was passing by this church that was known to be a predominantly, if not exclusively, black church, and the parking lot was filled, full.

And I said, out of curiosity, I want to see what's going on there. So I pull over and I go into the church, and they were having some kind of a special event there.

And I was the only white person in the church building. And when the service was over, it was somewhat humorous that every single person that approached me afterwards thought

I was a politician. Because they were only used to greedy, white, liberal politicians visiting their churches just to get something out of them.

And then the other occasion was when I was passing out flyers for an event that my church was having, and I was in the black community as well, passing out, going to churches, giving them stacks of flyers to see if they would hand them out and post them and so on.

And this other church that was exclusively black, an elderly woman came out of the church when she saw me at the door, and she said, can

I help you, officer? Is there anything wrong? She assumed

I was a cop, but anyway. We have a number of listeners with questions for you.

We have Susan in East Setauk at Long Island, New York, who asks, how does critical race theory help to deconstruct an objective value system in America?

Can you repeat the question, please? Yes. How does critical race theory help to deconstruct and I just lost

I knocked into my keyboard with my hand and it disappeared.

The question, here it is. How does critical race theory help to deconstruct an objective value system in America?

Well, immediately, it does not believe in that, right? It says that objectivity is actually impossible and that actually part of the goal, they would say part of the goal of objectivity or the merit system in America is that it's designed through hegemony, through the influence of America through the

Constitution and through capitalism and through all the American values, especially just things like individualism, that all of that is created as a way to oppress black people and to oppress people of color.

So the only way, then, to reduce equality or equity or parity, the only way to be anti -racist, the only way to destroy oppression and white supremacy, is to completely destroy that and therefore they embrace subjectivity and especially our perceptions of black people.

That's where you have the post -modernism that comes in within critical race theory, where really the only arbitrators of truth, the only people that you can rely on to identify what's racist is black people.

This is where you have a kind of standpoint epistemology coming in which is that only people of color, especially black people who experience oppression now of course that's perceived oppression, assumed oppression the people who experience that, they are the only ones who can identify and destroy oppression.

So that's how they would deconstruct it. Thank you,

Susan. Keep listening to Iron Sharp and Zion Radio and spreading the word about the program in East Setauket, Long Island and beyond.

And we have someone listening who I happen to have had as a guest on my program and I have been a guest on his program and that's

Dwayne Atkinson who is host of The Bar podcast and if anybody has not heard

The Bar podcast yet, you should start listening at thebarpodcast .com thebarpodcast .com

thebarpodcast .com and I have to constantly repeat this just to clarify that this is not a podcast broadcasting live from a pub or a tavern and that's not what

The Bar means and it also does not mean black and reformed, although Dwayne Atkinson happens to be black it means biblical and reformed but Dwayne wants to know, when will you

Samuel will say, start a podcast? I chuckled as soon as you said his name because before you even asked the question

I knew exactly what he was going to ask This man has been harassing me everywhere

I go I cannot, I cannot escape him laughter He's a friend of mine he's a good man,

I've been on his show as well he's been very good to me he's been trying to get me to start a podcast for a while but if I'm starting one, he's the one to go with, that's for sure but I'm just as I told you before,

I was so nervous you've been so good to me you've made me very comfortable but I'm still when

I'm writing that's easy, I can edit things, that's all good but podcasting is hard I'm not comfortable speaking in front of people just yet but hopefully when

I'm more comfortable when I have more time, when I'm able to figure things out with plans for my future and stuff, then

I can perhaps consider it, except that I am considering more, but I might have a more concrete answer later on but tell him to stop harassing me though give his own two cents and compare the church of Canada to the church in the

United States and I would also if you could compare let me put my own two cents in here, compare the government of Canada versus the

United States in regard to any kind of efforts at oppression and discrimination against Christianity and ways that you may have been or the church or churches there may have been silenced or there may have been an effort to silence them yeah

I'll start off with the government first so our government so essentially we did not have a constitution the way you guys do until 1982 because we're still essentially now we are a constitutional monarchy so we are a democracy nevertheless we're still led by the queen of England which does play a role as to why we did not have a because we were still very much being influenced and being led by the

British constitution that's why we did not have one until 1982 essentially to make it much more simple now

I say that because our prime minister at the time and our government at the time our rights essentially are not inevitable.

The government does say that we have our freedom of expression not speech which makes it more vague our freedom of expression of association and religion but the key word here is within reasonable limits that's what it says officially therefore that makes the church very vulnerable and really it's all

Canadians but especially the church very vulnerable to discrimination from the government in America while you guys are having increasingly challenges against the church there because of your constitution so for example when it comes to the lockdowns

I know that the supreme court I'm forgetting whether it was the federal court or the supreme court if it was just the

New York supreme court but I know that I think in certain places especially in California with John McCarthy where they've appealed to the constitution as a way to say no this is going against you know against churches and it's discrimination here

I don't think we can really have that challenge in the same way as being challenged in America because the government has to decide what's reasonable and what's not right because again it says within reasonable limits so that's been one of the problems here with COVID where churches do not feel as free to defy the government the way

American churches are in part because of that because they know that unfortunately our laws are not going to be as strong or firm in defending our rights the way

American churches can. Now past the government the church here it's not as strong as it is in America that's for sure you know

I'm by no means an expert on this but I just know from my work even as a pro -life advocate and talking to churches that we are sorely lacking here in biblical truth we have a major major problem here where churches are a lot of them are dead.

Now over the last years by the grace of God especially through my church and my pastors being very faithful and teaching truth but also raising up other men to serve elsewhere you have a reformation happening in some circles of Toronto and also in Calgary or in Alberta and in BC or British Columbia.

So you have some churches that are growing stronger and stronger in biblical theology and yet we are not as strong to be honest with you not even near as strong as Americans are.

So I would tell Americans you know I know things are difficult but they should be much more grateful for their government and for even the state of the church as it is right now than some of them are because it's a lot worse even as close as Canada Well thank you

Joseph keep listening in South Central Pennsylvania and continue spreading the word about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Let's see here we have

RJ in White Plains New York and RJ says is it true that there are parts of Canada where you would receive a serious fine by the government if you speak out publicly against homosexuality

Um Theoretically yes

Theoretically absolutely Um You know we have and I think there may have been some cases

I don't remember the exact cases but I think there have been some cases where there have been serious fines for that.

There has also been arrests for disturbing the peace essentially at some rallies where people are speaking out against something like a gay pride event

Some people I think have been arrested for that including some preachers So you have that and of course you also have

I'm forgetting what the name of the bill was but Jordan Peterson became a prominent member in social commentary and politics because he was strongly challenging a new bill.

I want to say Bill C -7 but I'm forgetting but he was challenging a bill that essentially theoretically makes it possible for anyone who speaks out against homosexuality and especially misgendering someone as they say to be fined and possibly if they resist the fine for them to be arrested.

So theoretically our laws do make that possible but it's not been as practiced just yet but we but seemingly we're moving towards that.

By the way to clarify something I said before about my guest tomorrow Dr. Tony Costa I had said that he has a pastor friend that I thought may have been arrested for keeping his church open in the midst of mandates to keep the churches shut down and let me tell you exactly what

Tony said he sent me a message that his close pastor friend was charged for keeping his church open last week and he could face one year in prison or a $100 ,000 fine.

Just to clarify what Tony said and that's going to be a part of our discussion tomorrow here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

We're going to our final break right now it's going to be a lot more brief than the regular breaks. If you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own please send in your question very quickly at chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

It's chrisarnson at gmail .com don't go away we'll be right back with what Samuel will say after these messages from our sponsors.

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Welcome back, this is Chris Orns and if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire two hours has been

Samuel Say of the slow2write .com

blog site and we have been discussing the new socially acceptable racism.

If you have a question that you'd like to ask Samuel on the air, send it by email as quickly as possible because we are rapidly running out of time.

It's chrisornsen at gmail dot com chrisornsen at gmail dot com Well, Samuel, I want to make sure before we take any more listener questions that you have about five minutes of uninterrupted time just to basically summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about this subject.

I think, you know, one of the... I get a lot of emails from pastors and just, you know, really all kinds of Christians in different spaces who really, what they're really getting at when they ask me most of these questions is how can

I basically agree with critical race theory without losing my

Biblical theology? Because it seems to me many Christians recognize that what they are being pressured into agreeing with they know it is not

Biblical theology but they feel so much pressure that they want to...

they're tempted to wander away from Biblical theology just to adopt that, to embrace that because then, as we were saying earlier they can have, depending on whether they're pastors or not they can bring more people of color, so to speak although I hate that term, but that's the term people use a lot they can bring in more people of color into their churches and what

I would just simply say and I said this in my article my review of how to be an anti -racist just believe

God's Word read God's Word and believe God's Word if you read and believe

God's Word by maintaining Biblical theology you will be more effective than anybody else that's by trusting in God and not trusting really in fools and I don't say that as an insult critical race theorists are fools because they are anti -Christ they are challenging

God's wisdom and God is wise and God is able to make wise make simple people wise

I'm a very simple man I am by no means an intellectual but just by believing in God's Word and just by repeating what the

Bible says I know that I am wiser than an

Ibram X. Kendi not because I'm more intellectual not because I have a bigger intellect by no means it's just that I'm just believing the

Bible if that's true for me, that's true for anybody and one of the issues here is too at least one of my concerns intellectuals are the people who created white supremacy and racism intellectuals are the ones who use pseudoscience and philosophies to create white supremacy as a way to justify their evil that being slavery, racist -based slavery and today the same thing is happening intellectuals, academia that is teaching racism through critical race theory to justify their

Marxist views and we tend to look back at history and we say how is it, why is it that so many of our forefathers failed to speak or failed to repeat what the

Bible says on racism and slavery and segregation why? well that's because they were facing the same pressures that we do, we have now which is the pressure of going against the culture so in the same way if we don't want to repeat the failures of our forefathers just believe what the

Bible says and repeat what the Bible says no matter what because that's what we need we just need the most anti -racist book in the world that being the

Bible we need that to be shared across the whole world and unfortunately every time

I'm hearing people talk about racism and white supremacy they're always going against God's word or ignoring

God's word and that of course is our problem yeah it's really absurd to think that the main problem in this nation or even anything that's coming at all remotely close to it is white supremacy

I mean you can't even find I've searched for decent documentaries for instance on the white supremacist movement supremacist movement in the 21st century you can hardly even find anything that's not about anything more than a handful of buffoons somewhere who are wannabes who have absolutely no influence at all in their communities it's absurd go ahead maybe

I shouldn't say this but I think I will you know over the last few years there have been pastors who have not only embraced racist critical race theory some of them have gone as far as shaming black people like myself using racial slurs against people like myself actually calling myself a coon or an

Uncle Tom oh yeah this has been an issue or you will have even prominent pastors bragging about how they would hire a black person to be an elder if there is seven over a white candidate who is an eight which is really actually racist not just against a white person but also against a black person that you would think that because someone is black just by that that gives them well just given that they're in that person's mind even though they're not qualified as much as the other person just because he's black you will call him to be a pastor which has so many problems within there it's unbiblical in so many ways nevertheless that's racist you have this reasoning going on and these pastors are not being are not being corrected and rebuked for that and yet we all know if one of these pastors came out and said the

N word that would be the end of their ministry that would be the end so that right there gives us a perspective as to what's happening here where racist slurs against the right kind of black people is okay but racist slurs of course against the quote -unquote wrong kind of black people is it would be wrong of course they're both wrong but that gives us a picture as to what's happening where critical race theory and the racial slurs that come out of that is okay right and you know so that's a deep concern as to where we're headed unfortunately the church is being attacked from the inside you know very quickly

I understand that you are very impressed with a new book by my friend Thaddeus Williams who's been on this program tell us about that book yes so actually

I'm one of the you know he says we're co -authors but I wouldn't go as far as that I'm one of the contributors of that book and I've not read the entire book yet I haven't received my copy yet but from the bits that I've read it is fantastic it is really really good there are that book there's some great books coming out too from Vadi Bokum and I've read some parts of that book too actually and there's some great works coming and absolutely one of them is

Thaddeus' book and it's really good in that it really gives a distinction as to biblical justice or what he calls biblical social justice and worldly social justice from critical race theory and how to confront injustice from a biblical point of view and it's really good

I can't wait to read the whole thing great well we're out of time and I want to make sure our listeners have your website it is slow2write .com