August 17, 2017 Show with Col. David M. Glantz on “I’m So Afraid of the Russians…But Should I Be?”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions

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Now here's our host Chris Arnton Good Afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at iron

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Sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on the 17th day of August 2017 and today we are going to be speaking about something quite different Than our normal topics on iron sharpens iron radio today we are talking about the

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Russians I'm afraid of the Russians. I can't sleep

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That's a blast from the past I'm so afraid of the

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Russians well Should I be afraid of the Russians? We're gonna talk about that today with retired

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Colonel David M. Glantz who was a US Army retired colonel And he is also an

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American military historian an author of nearly 40 books on the Red Army during World War two and chief editor of the

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Journal of Slavic military studies and It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to iron sharpens iron

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Colonel David M. Glantz Well, thank you very much It's really an honor to be invited to share my experiences with your crew.

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I've been blessed by a Career that has allowed me to study the

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Soviet Union and today the Russian Federation That experience goes back quite a few years to time when

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I was a graduate student taking courses in Russian history at the time those courses being

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Most interesting because of the vacuum in which Russian history seemed to exist if you knew much about it and I ate it up I was an army officer for a number of years when

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I decided to go into the foreign area program and Decided the one thing I did need most was the

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Russian language ability to read more and Communicate possibly with Russians have given the opportunity to do so That that was invaluable

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I studied three years under Soviet emigre instructors some of them all

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Marxists who had gone over to the other side My as an artilleryman in the army

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I then decided that perhaps the best place I could use my experience was in Studying the

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Russians and preparing to deal with them better if the occasion arose in the future And I did that in intelligence positions beginning in the 1970s

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That combined with my penchant for research in military history Resulted in essentially going in and establishing or helping to establish several shops

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Army offices responsible for studying how the Russians conducted war obviously at that point

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From the viewpoint of dealing with them should they begin war? There are certain ironies in all of this and the irony show that life in fact has its unexpected moments

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And it was in 1988 when Gorbachev and Reagan affected their famous handshake that suddenly the mission my mission and the mission to my office changed abruptly to Dealing with the

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Russians militarily to establishing some sort of basis to make the end of the Cold War a real

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Reality and let's pick up on that in a bit. I just want to make sure I Introduce I should say first of all on the phone.

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We have one of my two co -hosts today Dr. David C Ennis who is chair of the program in politics

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Philosophy and economics and associate professor of politics at the King's College in New York City. Welcome back to iron sharpens iron

05:19

Dr. David C Ennis Thank You Chris pleasure to be here and then in the studio with me is my second co -host the

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Reverend buzz Taylor it's great to have you back and Today is going to be very interesting because I know nothing about what we're talking about.

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Well, we'll make it a day Just like any other day I will be listening from the sidelines and Dr.

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Glantz what I'd like you to do before we even get into the subject at hand and even your military career I want to just have a summary as I usually do with first -time

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Guests on iron sharpens iron. I want you to give a summary of your conversion testimony and how

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You became a believer in Christ through the providence and grace of God What was the religion of your upbringing if any and what providential?

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Circumstances that our Lord used to actually bring you to himself and save you. Well, it's a very interesting prospect

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Prospect and procedure how it passed and it's really one of those unique cases where experience is the teacher

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I was brought up in a Christian household Methodist mother Baptist father

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I was brought up in the suburbs of New York at a time when when religion was really in decline and decay

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I would say Sunday schools were chair -throwing ceremonies and and so on and basically basically, although I Appreciated the goals of religion.

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I did not appreciate the means And the origins of how those those goals were achieved

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I was a Christian Mildly, so throughout my army career.

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We attended church on Christmas and we attended church on Easter and In reflection if you look back at your entire my entire military career in particular after my retirement in 1992 you suddenly realized that Things you cannot plan what happens what happens is planned for you

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The number of times that my wife said we should pack for a DAC That's a little site in the

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Aleutian Islands where you're said if you do something incorrectly Religion and and yet my career developed in a pattern whereby

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I got to do what I was most interested in doing and I had success in doing it and Quite frankly,

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I felt myself blessed by the entire process To make a long story short there came a time in the late 1990s when

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I hit myself on the head and said you are dumb you have been ignoring The things you should not have ignored someone has been watching over you paving the way for you

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There were some personal experiences associated with my mother's illness and hurt ultimately moving in with us that showed me that if you need help and ask for it it is there and Ironically I then

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Became born again and joined the church in Carlisle I have not regretted it because it involved lifting

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Tens of pounds if not hundreds of pound off my back and putting my mind at ease

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Praise God and it was just a providential occurrence that I even knew of My guest background.

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I just knew him by sight as a quiet and polite Gentleman who was an usher at Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle where I'm a member and I happened to be

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Having a conversation with one of my elders Mike van graal and he said, you know

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You should interview you should interview David glance, you know, one of the ushers and I said, yeah why and he said well

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He's one of the foremost experts on Russia and the Soviet Union in the United States Said really

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So I got well if I might interrupt in a world full of experts Self -proclaimed and many of them unjustified there are very few experts on anything and right humility is the name of the game, right?

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that's right. Well, I'm so glad that I found out about that and have you on the program today and One of the things

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I wanted to find out initially is how you went from An enlisted man in the military to all of the sudden.

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I mean, of course it wasn't all of a sudden but Over a period of time coming to the point where you were making regular trips to the

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Kremlin and were actually Charged with that focus of responsibility involving the

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Soviet Union as a Enlisted military man. How did that all come about? Well, what you're doing is entering the realm of the inexplicable

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It's that inexplicability that that had finally had the in the impact it did on me

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I was commissioned in a second lieutenant in the army graduating from college, Virginia Military Institute.

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I Did what an officer was supposed to do. I went into a combat arms in this case artillery Why I went to VMI and why

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I did what I did. I can't tell you exactly why I grew up midst history books My father was a lifetime

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Lifetime history teacher and I guess the Civil War history Which was one of my first passions led me to that college and it's unique ambience associated with it

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If you track my career And artillerymen in Europe and artillerymen in Vietnam, albeit in a bunker most of the year planning artillery fires

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Going through the rudimentary schools officers basic officers advance and finally Finally in Vietnam one morning temperature 120 degrees the door to my hooch opened and I was laying stark naked on a bed a little cot and in walk this

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Natalie dressed colonel who said how would you like to teach at West Point? I Said to him

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I said to him look around and essentially essentially I made that leap from And artillerymen in a hooch in Vietnam to a teacher at West Point, I'm not a doctor incidentally

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I'm a colonel. I have a master's degree and that was did I call you a doctor? Yes, you did Oh, I'm sorry.

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I did that. I have to be careful That's not an insult now because my one of my daughters is and I definitely call her that and she cringes

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I I just meant to call you colonel. I don't know how doctor slipped up Call everybody doctor, you know

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In any case I came back from Vietnam I was supposed to go to West Point and teach at about a year's time and we were sitting around a table and my wife's parents house in North Carolina on a

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Saturday night playing I think Canasta and the phone rang at 10 o 'clock and I picked the phone up and it was

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West Point Can you come up and teach Monday morning? I said no, I'm on leave from Vietnam, but I'll do it in a week

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And so there I was a week later in West Point teaching modern European history.

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I taught it for four years I enjoyed the tour thoroughly and I've never read more in my entire life than I read during those four years

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Finishing up there. I went on to Fort Leavenworth the commanding general staff college and which is a routine assignment for someone who makes major and There I made a decision having picked having studied and loved

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Russian and Studying and loving history. I decided perhaps I needed the Russian language

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So I entered the foreign area program which gave me in three years the Russian language although I would not recommend learning it at age 32 because Your mind is not as supple for the receipt of a

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Complicated language as it would have been if I was 15 or 16 in any case I did pick up a good reading knowledge of Russian a halting speaking knowledge of it that led to an intelligence assignment in US Army Europe Seventh Army where I worked in the estimate shop playing with things like estimates and doing assessments of the

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Soviet military a Very humbling job for a major who had several courses in Russian history and not much more

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That led to an assignment at the Combat Studies Institute brand -new organization at Fort Leavenworth Which for the first time would do research in history

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Obviously military history and my expertise was in Russian a call came through about a month after I reported there in 79

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The call was from the Japanese and the Japanese internal defense force wished a self -defense force decided they wanted to do an exchange a historical exchange between The two research organizations

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I ended up doing the Russian portion of the program and the topics the

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Japanese wanted me to address were Manchuria Soviet Manchurian offensive August 45 followed by Soviet airborne operations and Soviet amphibious operations if you understand the date 1979 you'll understand the reason for that concern that Essentially brought me into the field of research.

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I produced two Leavenworth papers Many studies about a hundred and fifty pages each on the

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Soviet offensive there as a student in college I'd read all the German authors Guderian Manstein The generals who wrote in the 50s and 60s and of course, they portrayed a very inept red army large cumbersome

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An army, which really should not have been victorious in the war and yet doing the

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Manchurian study I saw a very efficient military machine vanquish a Very large sizable

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Japanese force in a period of two weeks and essentially a theater of military operations

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Which Manchuria was my question was how on earth did they go from the inept?

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Body of troops that they had at the beginning of the war to something that was far more capable at war's end that Also dovetail with what

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I had been asked to look at when I was in the estimate shop at usera That is how are the Soviets reconfiguring their forces in the event of war all those things tied together

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I then moved on to the War College after four years at CSI the War College. I did the same thing studied

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Soviet military operations with a desire to Just glean out of those operations why and how they would operate today.

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Is that the War College right here in town? There's the War College. Yes right here in town. That's when I bought the house here

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That that three -year tour at the War College enabled me to look in depth at Soviet military operations in 1944 and 45 and I had already become convinced by reading

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Soviet periodicals journals military history Materials that that in fact was the period in which they tested many of the things that they were considering in the 1970s and 1980s in the contemporary

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Soviet Army All of this then culminated in the foundation of the Soviet Army Studies Office at Fort Leavenworth Chief of Staff of the

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Army decided to create it to do open source analysis with a group of hand -picked

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Individuals both civilians and military that could look at the Soviet Army so we could better contend with it

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That was 1986 two years later we had the astounding process of Reagan shaking hands with Gorbachev and immediately our mission changed our mission very abruptly changed into developing the basis for a possible

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US -Soviet strategic partnership in the future if common ground could be found

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I Then spent I and all of my office members spent the next four years 1988 to 1993 actually five years

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Largely traveling to the Soviet Union meeting with counterparts exchanging materials at one point

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We brought our chaplain over and brought boxes of Bibles over to the Soviet Union We came back with textbooks from the

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Friends Academy the Voroshilov General Staff Academy It was a genuine discussion between folks on the other side who understood the

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Cold War was over and the conditions that had given rise to it had also changed Fundamentally and that some sort of new arrangements had to be reached

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We saw what happened to the Soviet Union in 89 when the Warsaw Pact collapsed and they lost basically all of Eastern Europe We saw in 1991 and these this was not a

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US victory I might add it is we say that and that makes the Russians very angry It was essentially a decline and failure of the

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Soviet state itself, which resulted in the birth of the Russian Federation this Russian Federation 1992 1993

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Continued that process of trying to found the basis for a partnership. It was a program advanced by Senior President Bush.

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It was a program that we were very active in and it was a program. I had very high hopes for I Retired from the army and late the last day of 1992

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For the reason that I saw in the winds a change in that program. I saw it to be

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To be direct that it was going to be canceled and I said if that's canceled Then I have no reason for staying around here.

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I was living on six -month extensions. I Retired and by doing so I escaped into history where I have been ever since writing and researching on the subject.

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I love Yes, and nearly 40 books later. Here you are. And by the way,

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I want to let you know ahead of time that Rather than answer a question that I might have that would force you to kill me later

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Just if I ask you anything that you don't want to answer just tell me But I know that David Ennis Over at Kings the

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Kings College in New York City has a couple of questions of his own and I since I can't see David I want to give him the opportunity right now to Pop in and then later on David as you know

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If you ever want to ask a question just jump in when you find a moment to do

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So you don't have to wait for me to ask you to ask your own question, but if you could

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David I know you have a couple of your own questions. Yeah. Well since we're in the Autobiography part of the interview.

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I thought I would ask Colonel Glantz We just talked about your books. Do you have any?

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Advice for aspiring authors. That's a lot of books For anyone to write and I assume you do other things aside from write books eat your wife

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Things like this. I was gonna say you perhaps ought to talk to my wife about that It does preclude lengthy vacations it does preclude

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Doing things you would ordinarily do I guess I haven't I took up golf two years ago

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I hadn't played a lick of golf in my life But yes, it is time -consuming and you have to be to a certain extent driven

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By something and the driving force for me was was a passion to find out what really happened to fill in those gaps

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I might add that life has become a heck of a lot more difficult now because in the last two years the

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Russians have opened their Archives substantially and we're now receiving. I think my wife said they're trying to kill you with documents

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And I think I think she's correct what used to take a year is now taking two and I'm running out of years very frankly so It takes a certain passion and love for the subject because you cannot do it unless you have a cushion to sit on you cannot

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Earn money as you probably know writing military history or history at all for that matter I have a cushion of military retirement without that.

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It would have been impossible. I Had any advice for anyone seeking a career in the military you've had a

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Extraordinary career in the military any advice for anyone today thinking of service or a career

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Well, I I do have advice and and it's more and more difficult today I think for a variety of reasons

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I won't get into but First don't try to predict what's going to happen. If you have a general desire go for it.

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Don't worry about Doing this or that punching this or that ticket set your sights on what you want to do

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Do it as well as you can and let let the chips fall where they may we do need researchers as I said, the

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Russian archives have opened at just the time when there are a dearth of Military historians in general and Soviet military or Russian military historians in particular

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So I lament the fact that much of that material is going to go unused unread and simply it'll be out there

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And that's a genuine tragedy 30 years ago. I was at a conference in the

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Academy of Sciences in Moscow and October 1987 and I said to them at that week -long conference

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It is better to tell your own history than have someone tell it for you it has taken over 30 years for that to come to fruition and We need to have more folks working in the field

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Well, I'd like to ask you to I know this is difficult in summary form because you could spend a week or more talking about the history of Russian government, but I'd like you to just give a overall summary of What occurred when the czarist

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Russia of the past of the 19th century? Collapsed and the

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Soviet Union rose to power Lenin Stalin and those figures that were intricately involved in that and Then of course the the collapse of the

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Soviet Union and the rise of the Russian Federation So give us a summary of that and and if you could compare and contrast

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The government of the Soviet Union with what we find in the Russian Federation today

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Wow, I just finished seven years work on what was supposed to be a single volume

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History of the Battle of Stalingrad and it ended up a trilogy in five books And you're asking me yes,

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I know I'll simplify Tsarist Russia was a was a nation in change in 1917 -1918

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It was a nation in change and as so often happens events Intervened that caused that change to take a strange direction a direction.

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You might not have have thought it would take Russians had abolished serfdom back in the 1860s they were industrializing and modernizing the state the last 20 years of the 19th century

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They began having political reform in the early 10 years of the 20th century But it's so often is the case war disrupted those reforms the

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Russo -Japanese War very costly very embarrassing 2000 1004 when 1005

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Caused turmoil that plus the industrialization the peasants moving to the cities

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Created a large proletariat a large working class to quote Working class and factories can be organized much more easily than the peasants in the in the fields to make a long story short

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They went through a political evolution Seriously disrupted by war which ultimately not only disrupted the system, but brought the system down The Soviet the

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Russian decision to enter World War one an honorable decision Honoring their allies

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France and England brought them into a war that turned out disastrous for them Disastrous for the

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Russian people and in the turmoil turmoil and and costs harsh

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Consequences of that war you had political movements arise the Social Democrats the

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Bolsheviks Ironically the minority party who call themselves the Bolsheviks because Bolshe means majority in Russian the

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Mensheviks the larger segment of the Social Democratic Party political infighting where Organization and leadership and platforms mean something well it was the

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Bolsheviks that came up with the organization and the platform and the slogans Peaceland and bread and then put together the organizations through organizing committees in the factories and the army and to a lesser extent in the countryside that essentially

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Turned what was initially a democratic revolution the? The revolution in February 1917 into what was a coup d 'etat in October November depending on which calendar you use 1917 where this small well -organized band

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Managed to seize control in the cities and what you had in a fairly accelerated process was the condolence consolidation of power by Lenin a

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Democratic revolution supposedly which Given the system the dictatorship of the proletariat almost inevitably resulted in the most most crude and the most skilled member of that upper elite

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Stalin to seize power in the mid 1920s Take total power in the early 1930s conduct a bloodbath in collectivization and industrialization and Eventually political and military purges in the 1930s that made its power absolute

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In reality that is what revolutions do they go through stages and the stages inevitably become harsher and harsher

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Sometimes you have a reaction sometimes the resulting regime is so powerful that it seizes and holds control that is

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Then they went through what is probably the most disastrous period of their entire history the so -called

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Great Patriotic War Malik, I ought to just when I avoid now where the Germans invaded

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Stalin although he was aware it was possible had not accommodated it well, the

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Russian army the Soviet army the Red Army was not able to to To do well in the opening months of the war and because of that lost some five million

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Soldiers by in the first six months, which is essentially losing your entire peacetime army.

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The war was a cauldron in which Deprivation desperation extreme

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Discipline all coalesced to produce ultimately a fighting machine by 1943 that was able to vanquish the

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Germans the Germans simply bit off more than they could chew and that became apparent There were many

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Russians who hoped that that war and the tremendous privation Associated with it would produce something less autocratic after the war they were disappointed and Stalin emerged from the war were the same sorts of policies and Apparently in the early 50s was about ready to institute new purges this

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Idea when Stalin died or was helped along. We don't know for sure the truth of it His successors were more akin to Controlling power amongst themselves a small group at the very top

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Stalinism was never renewed and returned but nevertheless the system that that was so highly organized and whose ideology precluded economic and social change

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Led to the sorts of conditions plus this penchant for never allowing World War two to happen again for for not forgetting

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What had transpired in 1941 led them? into a essentially a militarized state which by the mid

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Mid 1980s could not function as a normal state and could not sustain political change the money ran out very simply and we're gonna pick up right where you left off when we return from our first commercial break if Anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own or our email address is

29:42

Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com Please give us your first name at least

29:48

Your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside of the good old USA don't go away

29:53

We'll be right back with Colonel David M. Glantz and more on Russia One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers

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Hi, I'm buzz Taylor frequent co -host with Chris Arnson on iron sharpens iron radio

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34:04

Hi, I'm pastor

34:10

Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m

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Dot -com We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions

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Our time will be lively Useful and I assure you never dull join us this Saturday at 12 noon

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Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because Everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back.

34:45

This is Chris Arns and if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is retired

34:52

US Army Colonel David M glance we are speaking about Russia and what threat it actually poses to the

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United States in the 21st century and Co -hosting with me are dr

35:06

David C Innis chair of the program in politics philosophy and economics and associate professor of politics at the

35:13

King's College in New York City And in the studio with me is the Reverend buzz Taylor if you'd like to join us on the air

35:19

With a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com

35:25

and please remember to always give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the

35:31

USA and I know that before the break we reached a point where Stalin had died and there was some question as to whether that was a natural death or not and the collapse of Economy in the

35:47

Soviet Union and so if you want to pick up right where we left off there Yeah, picking up where we were left off at the last half hour.

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We By the 1980s, it was clear the Soviet Union faced major problems Anyone who says that they could predict that this would happen and that there be collapse in the near future

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I think is a scoundrel. I Traveled extensively there in the 70s some travel in the 1980s.

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I saw signs that That may be concerned but they were signs like grass growing between the cracks in sidewalks and monuments broken glass and windows along the street

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Building part product shops that had nothing but cans of Bulgarian grape beans Green beans the hotel

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Ukraina one of the bigger hotels in town Where a 50 -page menu had one item on the menu at any given time

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There were signs of decrepitude and we now know that those signs extended all the way through the political system in effect by 1987 and 1988 many leaders in the

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Soviet Union realized that Something had to fundamentally change if the nation was going to continue and certainly the

36:59

Cold War with its huge expenses and great great potential threats

37:05

Could not go on this led to the famous handshake between Gorbachev and Reagan the handshake was an admission that Circumstances around the globe had changed

37:18

Our argument was with our Russian counterparts that there were new challenges new global challenges and that that many of these challenges

37:29

Affected Russia and the United States equally This would take time to gel the discussions were extensive.

37:36

They went on here and over there Frankly by 1992

37:41

I was fairly confident that this partnership program would indeed work and there were certain elements of the partnership the

37:48

Cold War would end Military blocks would either disappear But certainly NATO would not be expanded extensively toward the east at the expense of the falling or the collapsing

37:58

Soviet Union the question of international crime international narcotics the question of what will

38:05

China do in the future what will Iran do in the future and in the 90s the question of Islamic fundamentalism

38:11

Roasts its ugly head and in fact our office Foreign military studies office at Leavenworth organized to address those problems what prompted me to leave the army was when

38:24

I heard that those initiatives the initiative of fostering partnership the initiative of addressing fund on Islamic terrorism the initiative of countering

38:35

International crime was not an important one and it would no longer be allowed for Organizations such as ours to address them.

38:42

My response was to Call up to Washington have them pull my extension and go home and tell my wife we're through I'm going to write history

38:51

It came to pass a year later that exactly what had been rumored took place

38:56

All of those functions were taken away from operating units around the military There were many many officers looking at those questions and they were withdrawn back the

39:05

NSC for better or for worse I Did escape into history

39:11

Russia escaped into ten years of chaos? I'd call it the wild wild east where political change under Yeltsin economic attempted economic reforms too hastily adopted led to not only a

39:25

Complete lessening of productivity but also to what the emergence ultimately of a kleptocracy of the old leaders simply picking up the

39:34

Industries and continuing them without reforming them. There were a whole series of things but I guess what most characterized the 90s my visits there was when you walk along the

39:44

Arbat and see veterans of the Great Patriotic War selling their orders of Suvorov and Kuznetsov and even here over the

39:50

Soviet Union badges for whatever the traffic would bear from foreigners this

39:57

More than anything else indicated to me that that this that the Russian Federation was now in serious problems

40:03

We know the Soviet Union itself fell in 1991 It essentially collapsed of its own weight with many of the constituent republics becoming independent again

40:13

Yeltsin tried to establish a Commonwealth of independent states which in theory still remains as a loose

40:21

Confederation of former member states of the Soviet former Soviet Union what happened in of course again war had its impact the

40:30

Chechen War in this case the inability of the Russians to handle the problem is of Islamism of Islamic fanaticism and Spreading force to them.

40:41

It was a major threat because the entire Central portion of the Russian Federation was Muslim up the

40:47

Volga River as far as Kazan They tried to stop it in Chechnya were embarrassed in Chechnya when they lost the first Chechen War This more than anything else prompted

40:57

Russia to look for someone who could restore some sort of effective leadership Some court sense of unity and some sort of pride in what was left of what was once a very great nation enter stage right stage left

41:11

Putin Putin did fight the second Chechen War. He did it under an incredible cloud of Shroud of secrecy bought it successfully

41:24

Figured out a way to main retain relative peace there and stop the spread of separatism into Russia proper into the

41:33

Russian Federation proper and He continued at that point.

41:38

He continued to seek accommodation now There was a great deal of complexity and what happened in in Eastern Europe in the 1990s but to me one of the most disturbing things was the

41:49

Decision of NATO an alliance that was supposed to be and what I and my colleagues claim was a defensive alliance became

41:57

An actual offensive alliance in the late 1990s and went into Serbia fought the war with Serbia Resulting in the independence of Kosovo there were valid reasons for that to go on But I think people should have understood what the message would be to Russia when we handled it in such a way my opinion a ham -handed sort of way because this to the average

42:19

Russian showed that given NATO expansion given the willingness of turn to turn

42:25

NATO into an offensive force that it was very likely in the future from their Perspective that they might be the target of such a process now.

42:34

This didn't happen overnight these feelings They evolved over time but to make a long story short by 2009 the situation worsened it got better under the

42:46

Bush presidency because we seemed weak We seem to be doing some of their work some of their work in their security interests in Afghanistan they cooperated and supported us there and they even

42:58

Maintained a kind of a mute criticism of what we were doing in Iraq But there were prospects for partnership being renewed during that period that Ended fairly abruptly by 2008 and 2009

43:12

I think the Georgian war more than anything else indicated the path that Russia was about to take a path which essentially said that revolutions such as had occurred in many

43:27

Non -soviet or non -russian areas Kyrgyzstan, Ukraine ultimately

43:33

Georgia that the various color revolutions were in fact nothing more than a rehearsal for something larger that would take place in the future in Moscow and many

43:41

Russians thought that that was emanating from the United States pure and simple whether they're right or wrong is not to not not up for debate here, but That is that was the rationale for Russia to do what she did in 2009 in Georgia to intervene their

43:59

Operations or relations worsened and of course, we more recently we've had the annexation of the

44:04

Crimea something that is understandable given the fact that Russia had a 99 -year lease in perpetuity over Sevastopol, but obviously has not done the proper way in International diplomacy and then of course the venture in Ukraine in short in my belief

44:23

By the end of the first decade of the 21st century Putin was willing to take risks that he would not have otherwise taken earlier and those risks he took because He thought he found the first because he despised what happened in the 1990s

44:42

And he also despised what was happening more recently and second because he perceived there's weakness in the part of the u .s

44:49

And they would not react The ultimate question is is that risk -taking over?

44:58

It could that risk -taking continue in particular if the Russians perceive a

45:04

Paralysis in this country a political paralysis and this concerns me over the the present conflict of Attempt essentially to get rid of a president

45:16

If you end up with complete gridlock in this country and a parallel an inability to act

45:22

Then you vastly increase the chances of Russian doing something that she ought not to do

45:29

Probably in the near abroad and I'm talking specifically about about Estonia at the Baltic States and other parts of the former

45:36

Russian Empire Do I consider it likely? No. Do I consider it possible? Yes, but much of it depends on how well the

45:45

United States settles its own current political disputes And how well it rids itself of the rancor that now characterizes our political scene?

45:54

Well, I'd like you to now give us some kind of a comparison between the communism of the

46:00

Soviet Union and The political system that we are now seeing in the

46:05

Russian Federation. How is the Russian Federation different? Also, of course some added elements to that of the

46:13

Soviet Union had been known Infamous infamously known for great brutality with genocide even exceeding that under the

46:25

Or by the hands of Hitler and the Nazis if you could give us basically what you would see as the most

46:33

Vivid Contrast or comparison between The communism of the Soviet Union and what we have today under Putin in the

46:40

Russian Federation. Well, first and foremost, they're very different Communism is dead The battle was fought out.

46:48

It was fought out largely in the last five two years of the 1990s the first several years of the first decade of the 21st century

46:56

Putin was definitely concerned about Zhiganov and the communists They were the number two party in elections, even though they were declining in strength

47:06

That's not to say that there aren't many Russians who look back at Stalin at least the elderly Russians who look back at Stalin and still

47:13

Wish his safety net were still there They are there but but they're diminishing in number and are dying off The system under communism was far more rigid far more autocratic far more total in its control of the population

47:28

I know people who are writing things today in Russia who? Would have been imprisoned if not more in the communist state

47:38

The military is totally different now By no means is massive

47:44

People have to appreciate the fact that when the Soviet Union lost the Warsaw Pact it lost what it called its first strategic

47:51

Echelon, that is its first wave of strategic depth in the event of war

47:56

Those were the what East European states when they experienced the revolution of 1991

48:01

They lost all of their strategic depth the entire second strategic echelon the

48:07

Baltic States Belarus Ukraine The Transcaucasus region and all of Central Asia If you look at the

48:15

Russian Federation as compared to its predecessor Its area is vastly reduced as population is vastly reduced and its capability for production is great vast vastly vastly reduced

48:27

It varies from area to area Their military is a fraction of what it was then

48:36

Instead of fronts and army work potential wartime fronts and armies with hundreds of divisions

48:41

Now you have somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 of 50 brigades perhaps additional brigades or artillery and it's an army that was primarily designed to handle affairs crises in Internally or what they call the near abroad small things like the

48:59

Georgian war Now having said that You also have to understand that NATO has largely gone away the

49:06

NATO of the 1960s 70s and 80s has gone away It is not a massive alliance of standing forces in Europe and If you say well

49:16

We're down now to the Russians being able to mobilize five to ten brigades and perhaps an airborne division

49:22

You have to also understand that we have difficulties Mobilizing a brigade of anything much less a division

49:33

The Russians are also looking at the changing political situation and ostensibly for defensive reasons

49:39

They're beginning to upscale their ground force structure They've had division ceremonial ones in Moscow.

49:47

These are now Taking part in in the formation of a first Guards tank army in the

49:52

West with a clear Western orientation Whether these will remain divisions or become cores

49:58

One of the brigades will be coalesced into something larger is anyone's guess right now because all of these things are being

50:06

Worked out in the general staff, but there is one important continuity and this is a continuity that I noted and continued to note whenever given the opportunity to do so between what

50:16

Transpired in the 70s and first half of the 80s and what's transpiring now in the 70s and the 80s the

50:22

Russians Soviets attempted to modernize their army to cope with nuclear war and high -intensity

50:30

Technological war high -precision weapons and they were planning and did implement fundamental changes in their force structure

50:38

We didn't realize it until years after they did it The lore elements of that in other words brigading forces task organizing and combined arms battalions that Went through the transition through 2009 and has formed the basis of the new

50:54

Russian army The question is will they will they now institute

51:00

The upper echelons of that structure capable of conducting theater warfare And that's a good place for us to take our midway break

51:08

If anybody would like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

51:15

please as always give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the

51:21

USA and Please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter and We look forward to hearing from you

51:29

And I know that we already have a number of you patiently waiting to have your questions asked and answered at least I hope

51:34

You're waiting patiently But I know that you're waiting and we'll get to as many of you as we can before the conclusion of the program

51:42

But don't go away. God willing. We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors

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Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m

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Our time will be lively useful and I assure you never dull Join us this Saturday at 12 noon

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I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man if I were still trying to please man,

01:00:01

I would not be a servant of Christ Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church We are a reformed

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Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts We strive to reflect

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Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

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Than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity But since that wasn't the

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Apostles priority, it must not be ours either we believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and Vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love

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That's Providence Baptist Church ma org or even on sermon audio .com

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Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio Hi, I'm pastor

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Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m

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Eastern Time on WLIE radio www .wlie .org

01:01:34

540 a .m. Dot -com We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions

01:01:43

Our time will be lively useful and I assure you never dull Join us this Saturday at 12 noon

01:01:49

Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor I'm afraid of the

01:01:57

Russians. I Can't sleep At night So afraid of the

01:02:04

Russians Wait, we've got to fight They've got ships at sea

01:02:12

They've got missiles in the air Tanks on the border of Europe and Spies everywhere

01:02:23

Welcome back This is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than an hour

01:02:29

To go is retired the US Army Colonel David M Glantz who's an

01:02:35

American military historian the author of nearly 40 books on the Red Army during World War two and chief editor of the

01:02:43

Journal of Slavic military studies We are addressing Russia and what threat if any it poses to the

01:02:51

United States in The 21st century if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own

01:02:57

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris Arnzen at gmail .com

01:03:04

and Before we return to the discussion. I just have a few announcements to make from our sponsors in regard to special events

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They're having the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York in cooperation with the

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The featured guest speaker or keynote speaker at this conference is Dr.

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Tony Costa a dear friend of mine, who is the professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary and Adjoining him will be pastor

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Kayla bunch pastor Bruce Bennett and pastor Dave Corson Friday September 29th and Saturday September 30th at the

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For the very next day Sunday, October 1st Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Medford, Long Island, New York will be having a dr

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Then coming up in November from the 17th through the 18th The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is having their

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Great Reformation hymn by Martin Luther a mighty fortress and Speakers include Kent Hughes Peter Jones Tom Nettles Dennis Cahill and Scott Oliphant If you'd like to join me at that conference from those

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01:09:12

Well now we are back to our discussion with retired US Army Colonel David M glance

01:09:19

Who is also the chief editor of the Journal of Slavic military studies We're talking about Russia and the threat that it does or does not have posed against the

01:09:31

United States and If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:09:37

Chris Arnson at gmail .com before I take a question from David Ennis who is on line with us.

01:09:47

He is a He's on the faculty over there at the King's College in New York City, and he's our co -host one of our co -hosts today before I go to his question.

01:09:58

I was wondering David have you heard of Karen DeWish's book

01:10:06

Putin's clip cliptocracy I Was talking to David, I'm sorry

01:10:12

David glance I've heard of the book, but I have not read. I haven't read anything in English and about three years

01:10:21

Well, I just the reason why I bring it up I wanted to read the description of the book and I wanted you to give your reaction to the description of Putin given

01:10:30

Is it Putin or Putin or does it matter? Putin, okay I've heard both so the description of Karen DeWish's Book is the raging question in the world today is who is the real

01:10:46

Vladimir Putin? And what are his intentions Karen DeWish's brilliant Putin's cliptocracy?

01:10:55

Provides an answer describing how Putin got to power his cabal the cabal he brought with him

01:11:01

The billions they have looted and his plan to restore the greater

01:11:06

Russia Russian scholar Darwisha Describes and exposes the origins of Putin's Clipocratic regime she presents extensive new evidence about the

01:11:19

Putin's circle about Putin circles use of public positions for personal gain

01:11:25

Even before Putin became president in 2000. She documents the establishment of Barak Rossiya now sanctioned by the u .s.

01:11:36

The rise of the Cherokee operative founded by Putin and others who are now subject to visa bans and asset freezes the links between Putin And Putin's palace near Sochi and the role of security officials from Putin's KGB days in Leningrad Many of whom have maintained their context with Russian organized crime

01:12:04

Well, basically, I want you to respond to that description and if you want to know how much of you how much of that you concur with Cliptocracy is a characteristic has been a characteristic of Russian society be it

01:12:18

Soviet or be it modern Russian Cliptocracy in the sense of what they used to call a nomenclature the nomenclature were the high echelons of the

01:12:29

Communist Party in the Soviet Union if you've been to a dacha as I have been several times in the 80s of any of these people.

01:12:36

You'll understand they live a life That's quite different from the average Russian to include Western toilet products

01:12:44

Toilet tissue so on and so forth now if you are to build the case that Putin's is in his entire existence is surrounded by the

01:12:55

Cliptocracy and that he is essentially drawing upon his old associates and building himself into a new czar

01:13:02

You can do that. But I think you're I think you're overstating the case He is certainly not communist.

01:13:09

He is certainly rooted in the imperial tradition. He wants a Russia as it was prior to 1917 and I'll give you a vignette on that one.

01:13:19

I began publishing books on the Soviet Army in 1989 in my first Subrogate a first title that they gave to the first label.

01:13:28

I gave to me was bourgeois objectivist as opposed to a bourgeois falsifier by 1995 when

01:13:35

I came out with my first expose of a forgotten battle operation to Mars They suddenly dropped the word bourgeois obviously, but call me a falsifier

01:13:44

That label stuck with me and they were I was lambasted in the Russian press through about 2000 about 2001 all of a sudden

01:13:52

This is after Putin took power a letter came to the University Press of Kansas my prime publisher that said may we publish the

01:14:00

Russian? Rights, maybe publish Lance's books in Russian They came to me.

01:14:05

I said give it to them Since that point they have published everything up to the last one

01:14:11

And I'm saying now that who knows whether this will continue or not And I finally found out from another

01:14:16

Russian why that why a good theory as to why that occurred he was using my books to club his political opposition

01:14:24

Zhuganov the communist man mismanagement of the war and Showing in a new system.

01:14:29

They must have honest management instead of the old management. I would treat that title as sensational without Saying all elements of it are wrong obviously in Russia like every other state you have cliques

01:14:46

You rely on your circle of people in Russia traditionally

01:14:53

Since it wasn't economically reformed properly in the 90s it was the wild wild east instead you do you have had kleptocracy certainly

01:15:01

But I would maintain that virtually every state the more autocratic it is the higher the reef the tendency to kleptocracy

01:15:11

By the way, I mispronounced a Phrase here due to my blindness. It's a bank

01:15:17

Rossia not barrack And I probably mispronounced a couple of other things because of my eyesight but anyway

01:15:25

As far as the organized crime connection and as far as the brutality of Putin I Understand that he at least from reports

01:15:39

I hear Regularly on the television, but as we all know fake news is rampant on both sides of the aisle but What what would you say about this man is this man a dangerous individual is he a psychopath is he a lunatic is he

01:15:58

Megalomaniac How do you would you I'm not a psychologist? So I can't know

01:16:05

He's not a Hitler. He's not a Kim if you consider came Kim to be over the over the edge

01:16:11

I don't Charlie think he is Russian society

01:16:16

Vis -a -vis American and Western societies has always been considered brutal because it is it's coarse.

01:16:22

It's much coarser It's a different society at a different different level of development a completely different historical evolution

01:16:29

Rather than shooting hundreds or exiling thousands into deportation camps and and essentially killing them at labor

01:16:36

Putin has an occasional journalist shot or stabbed or whatever you this is

01:16:41

Russian The further south you go into the Caucasus the more brutal some of the little Set for PC set up down there are this is this is not a surprise to anyone who studied

01:16:52

Russian history By the same token, you'll find the same thing in many Asian countries You'll find they and I'm not going to get into this business of which culture is more violent than others

01:17:01

But you'll find violence in many many cultures and it's generally characteristic and it has its historical roots

01:17:08

Well, I think that the Elephant in the room here is really going to be in the minds of many in regard to our most recent election

01:17:18

Do you think that Putin had anything to gain by rigging an election in favor of Donald Trump?

01:17:25

I sometimes wonder why that would be since it seems to me that If anybody is closer to a totalitarian system of government, it would be

01:17:36

Hillary Clinton But I don't know why why he would have benefited by a Trump election

01:17:41

But do you what do you I know that some of this obviously is your speculation? And some of obviously a lot of what you're saying is based on fact

01:17:50

But you're going to be hearing questions from me that are obviously going to involve your speculation. You have me off the hook

01:17:59

Have strong feelings about I have strong feelings about what's happened to the partnership program I've looked very carefully as to what happened what happened to it after I retired in 1992 and I I've spoken out on it and I don't care if people hear me speak out on it

01:18:13

I will give you the truth as I see it There is there are many reasons why put

01:18:19

Putin detests Hillary Clinton. He tested her The reasons go back into the 1990s from the

01:18:25

Clinton administration did those things that we had promised his predecessors we would not do and That includes the actions in the

01:18:35

Balkans that includes the a whole range of things In a sense what you saw in this recent election was yes

01:18:43

Russian meddling But meddling in elections is not a unique thing meddling in elections occurred.

01:18:49

We meddle in elections I won't get into specifics, but we meddle in elections, too It's in your best interest to do so.

01:18:56

Do you rig it? no, because you can't but what you can do is discredit someone you detest and There's no doubt in my mind, but that Putin detested

01:19:05

Hillary Clinton He detested her for a lot of reasons and the meddling in this case

01:19:11

Took part in the release of the information that showed what she did to Sanders folks, which was nothing less than fixing an election

01:19:20

Now if that had an impact on some of the Democratic voters who? Realized that their candidate was being torpedoed by the

01:19:28

Democratic Party. So be it I cheered when that came out. I said, okay, it's about time.

01:19:34

Somebody let people know what was actually going on behind the scenes But that doesn't mean that that he rigged anything now having said that I'm not sure if he's happy with the results.

01:19:48

No one can say that until I see what the results are. It's all speculation Hillary is not president

01:19:53

Trump is many people don't like him what I am disturbed by is by this tendency it's not a tendency this penchant for Essentially attacking the

01:20:03

Russians as the sole cost the sole cause of Hillary's loss which

01:20:09

Carries the point to will risk a nuclear war if it overturns this election I think the Russian scare and the

01:20:15

Russian baiting that has gone on is the most damaging thing to u .s security in the next five to ten years because it may be

01:20:23

The thing that causes Russia to do something we don't want them to do it may on the one hand by creating paralysis here

01:20:34

Tend to make them take risks. They shouldn't we may see that in September an operation

01:20:39

Zapad occurs Whether or not that has led them to do it Whether it it has another impact on them and to do something somewhere else in the world

01:20:48

I don't know but that is not helpful shrillness to the point of Trying to overturn a government or at least paralyze it in the interim is not going to help the national interest of the

01:21:00

United States Well, David Ennis at the King's College in New York City.

01:21:06

What are your questions that you have? Well, wait when we consider the the danger or not that Russia poses to our country

01:21:15

I'd like to ask you about one the the military danger and then also they the the interest that actually

01:21:23

Separate us. I think of the the what I've heard about the the invasion of Georgia, which which

01:21:29

I'm told was Everything was breaking down. It was this it was this position embarrassing and intrusion and then in Ukraine One would think they would have achieved their objectives much more quickly

01:21:43

Which I assume is like absorbing half the country. They seem to be having a very difficult time What chances are they could do anything significant in the

01:21:51

Balkans? And then just maybe you could comment on exactly what our clashing interests are in the world with with this

01:21:59

Russian rival Okay, let me let me start at the beginning From place where I depart when we discussed with the

01:22:06

Russians in the period from 88 to 93 92 93 About common interests the common interests were as I labeled the challenges

01:22:15

I won't use the word threat because it's a majority of these days But the challenges to both countries from China the challenges to both countries from Iran the challenges to both country by Islamic Terrorism which was already underway in the early 1990s

01:22:29

Although that has been kind of swept under the rug and the international crime and international narcotics

01:22:35

Which have affected both countries tremendously and affects the Russian Federation as least as much as it does

01:22:42

Ourselves, those were the common interests. What's been disturbing is long about 2001 to 2003 if you read

01:22:50

Russian publications These interests had been generally underscored as unifying factors beginning in that period you begin seeing minority reports articles about you know, maybe we ought to to make a

01:23:05

An agreement with Iran Maybe we ought to come to some settlement with Iran or China because there are so many

01:23:10

Muslims in the Soviet in the Russian Federation why irritate them in other words? those

01:23:16

Basic platforms for agreement began breaking down it I like to use the analogy of Stalin making his pact with Hitler in 1939 because of the ready perceived the incorrect ready perceived from the from the

01:23:29

West He's made accommodations in my view. He's made pacts with the devil. He should not have made now.

01:23:36

Can that be redeemed? Yes, I think there were attempts to redeem it between 2001 and 2008

01:23:42

But those attempts to redeem it were essentially undercut by the great war controversy in this country

01:23:48

Which prevented any sort of rapprochement for taking place as far as Russian military capabilities?

01:23:54

The Russians are more capable than they were in 1990 or 1995 or 2000 but are they as anywhere near as capable as they were in 1985 and 1975?

01:24:07

No, not by any means at all. I think they made a mistake they operated correctly in Georgia and I think that was taking advantage of an opportunity provided when the

01:24:20

Georgians went into southern Ossetia and Just from a person who studied this in great detail It is utterly inconceivable to me that the that the

01:24:28

Russians would allow the southern terminuses of two of the major Caucasus mountain highways military highways built back in the 1870s to become to fall into somebody else's hands

01:24:40

That's nonsense. Those are strategic pieces of terrain southern Ossetia and Abkhazia Nobody seems to understand that because nobody studied it

01:24:50

The action in Crimea was understandable logical and to a certain extent in Russian eyes totally justifiable And it worked what they did in Ukraine in my view was a mistake

01:25:03

They overreacted they had proxies go in there many of them out of the North Caucasus region to do their fighting for them

01:25:09

And they discovered that they could not control their proxies I think they would just as soon have gotten out of that area and not done it

01:25:17

My argument with them is you do not want to create a Palestine in Eastern Europe Like the situation we have in the

01:25:23

Middle East. I think Russians some Russians are appreciating that although I've got no confirmation of it

01:25:30

Capabilities in Europe, for example Chatham house just issued a report saying the biggest danger now is what will happen with operations up on the

01:25:40

Operation Western the exercise will they invade somebody like Lithuania or Estonia?

01:25:46

And of course, they don't make a value judgment on it. They say it could go either way But when we look at it and say they're too weak to do anything of substantial

01:25:55

Understand what's there to oppose them and that doesn't exist anymore either

01:26:01

If you can field a brigade if if NATO can field a brigade in Europe, they can be lucky

01:26:06

They certainly can't feel the division in Europe in less than 90 days So you've got to put all that in in Perspective.

01:26:14

I don't think they will act. I hope they do not act in September But I don't think it's in their interest to act or we're gonna go to our final break

01:26:22

Do you have any response David before we go to our break David Dennis? Okay, and we're going to our final break and we'll finally get to our listener questions,

01:26:32

I'm sorry I kept you waiting so long And if anybody wants to get in line in the event that we do have time to take any more questions

01:26:39

Jump online at Chris Arns and at gmail .com Chris Arns and at gmail .com

01:26:44

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01:26:50

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01:26:56

US Army Colonel David Glantz and more on Russia and Its threat posed to the

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Harvey Cedars where Christ finds people and changes lives Welcome back.

01:33:36

This is Chris Arns and if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with just about 25 minutes to go is retired

01:33:43

US Army Colonel David M glance He is the chief editor of the

01:33:49

Journal of Slavic military studies and we are addressing Russia and What threat it poses if any to the

01:33:56

United States in the 21st century and our email address if you'd like to join us? It's Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:34:02

Chris Arnson at gmail .com If you have a question for Colonel glance, and if you intend to send in a question

01:34:09

Please do it quickly because we're running out of time one of our listeners is Lieutenant Colonel Kevin Girard from Dawsonville, Georgia who has been a guest actually on iron sharpens iron radio and he

01:34:23

Had spent some time here in the Carlisle area when doing some work with the War College before returning to Georgia and it's so nice to hear from him today and Lieutenant Colonel Kevin Girard says greetings brother.

01:34:37

Please pass on my warm regards to Colonel glance this afternoon How has Russia suffered from Islamic terrorism in the 21st century that's one of two questions he has

01:34:48

Well the from the Islamic standpoint they would claim they would assert that it's

01:34:53

Russian imperialism that has caused a problem But from the Russian point of view Basically the entire

01:35:01

Caucasus region North and South Caucasus the entire corridor up the Volga River to Kazan all of Central Asia are essentially

01:35:11

Islamic countries There have been terrorist attacks these began back fairly early in the late 1980s early 1990s bombings in Moscow bombings in Leningrad then st.

01:35:27

Petersburg lots of bombings in the North Caucasus region a school bombing in Brest land was

01:35:36

I guess the the most infamous of these so they've had quite a bit of terror now They've also had Terrorism or or at least insurgency that the

01:35:44

Russians would cause to call terrorism in Chechnya and that prompted the first and second Chechen Wars They've got a similar problem in Dagestan Today that's the area east of Chechnya between the

01:35:56

Caucasus and the Chechen borders And they've had smaller outbreaks in other others of those states but what they're worried about primarily is the

01:36:06

Spread of the militant version of the religion I don't want to cover the entire religion with a blanket, but the militant portion northward

01:36:15

Into the section because essentially if it goes northward east to the west of the

01:36:20

Urals It could split the Russian Federation in half. It would also preclude the If it spreads to the

01:36:27

Central Asian Republic It would preclude any Russian restoration of contacts or partnership with those nations and I think one of the sleepers in this whole equation is

01:36:38

Kazakhstan whose president Nazarbayev is Becoming rather aged to me.

01:36:43

The question is going to be when Nazarbayev departs Will the Russians since they have the

01:36:49

Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan the old nuclear testing area and they have a sizable Russian population there will they attempt to Form some sort of Confederation with Kazakhstan bring it back into the orb

01:37:02

This would obviously solve problems with China, which is also interested in those areas of Central Asia so that's that's a thumbnail sketch of the of the relationships this this is historical in nature because Few people remember that back in the 19th century

01:37:18

The Russian Empire was the defender of Christianity in the Middle East and they were responsible for defending the temples there and the churches and cathedrals

01:37:28

That has something to do with why well why they are doing what they're doing in Syria today and lieutenant -colonel

01:37:37

Kevin Girard's second question is Why do US policymakers seem so hostile to the idea of cooperating with Russia against Isis?

01:37:50

I've got ideas, but I'm not going to tell you what they are for fear of blowback

01:37:58

They this is this is a problem that dates back to the original partnership agreement One of whose bases was fighting

01:38:05

Islamic terrorism and one of the last things I did as director of the foreign military studies office was approve arrangements being made annual summer meetings were being held between all the intelligence agencies and had been for several years in Chicago and Those meetings were going to continue and they were focused on what had happened in New York What had happened to other areas the explosions in Beirut and and Though all that entire effort was stopped abruptly in 1994

01:38:34

I Won't tell you why because I don't know why but it didn't surface again until 2001 and that day

01:38:42

I was traveling to North Texas to spend several days giving talks and The first plane hit the tower my wife's an inveterate radio listener, and I said she said what's that mean?

01:38:52

I said that's that's awful. That's terrible and the second one hit I said, that's war a few minutes later

01:38:57

They said they were closing the airspace and I said my god They're gonna close the ports next because a target list that I had signed off on or helped approve

01:39:07

The summer of 93 had that list now somebody must have kept it in their desk at the

01:39:12

Pentagon But that stuff ended abruptly in 1994. It was swept under the table and didn't surface again in 2001

01:39:19

The same thing has happened since 2008 and you can speculate as to why that might be

01:39:25

Thank you so much, Lieutenant Kevin Lieutenant Colonel Kevin Girard and I hope to have you back on iron sharpens iron radio in the near future

01:39:33

We have Daniel in San Jose, California Who asked does the state in which our nation is currently in Show some similarities to the era culture, etc.

01:39:48

That led to World War two There are there are problems in this country right now that problems of social discord political discord unwillingness to compromise that bring back many of Mary read an old essay when

01:40:06

I was before I taught at West Point we Gave it out to this was back in the 60s. We gave it out to Students there was crane

01:40:13

Brenton's the anatomy of revolution. There were the continuities or something about the About revolutions and how they're characterized and if you read that pamphlet today that article today, you'll say

01:40:24

God We're in the same state that they were in In various revolutions in the past we are in an unstable state and that is quite bothersome

01:40:34

We have Gordy in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania He has two questions in your opinion should the nations of the world be more concerned about Vladimir Putin or Kim Jong -un

01:40:48

Perhaps you shouldn't separate the problems but Answer your question

01:40:54

Putin is less of a concern if we adopt Policies that are sane rather than policies that are insane

01:41:03

Kim has been a proxy for many years. He's been a proxy of China He's been a proxy of Russia Soviet Union or at least his father was

01:41:12

There are strings attached to his back. I can't define what those springs are

01:41:18

But he is a more immediate concern but when if you address that concern you have to address another one as well, and that's

01:41:26

China and Gordy's second question is is there any significance to the fact that Kim Jong -un's grandfather served in the

01:41:35

Soviet 88th Battalion The Soviet 88th Battalion was a it was a battalion formed in the

01:41:43

Soviet Army that went into Manchuria in August 45 they took part in the liberation of North Korea I think they were with the 10th

01:41:50

Mechanized Corps when it came down in there and that was the nucleus of the military of The North future

01:41:56

North Korean state. Yes, it is symbolic That is a direct tie between the Soviet Union and the question is have those ties with Korea Languished since the fall of the

01:42:07

Soviet Union. I think many of them have However, you've got to ask yourself whether the ties between the

01:42:13

PLA and actions in 1951 Have faded away as well.

01:42:19

And that question is still to be answered We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York who wants to Who asked can you please define what the o0 cooperative is?

01:42:31

And if you can give us any information on Putin's links to petromed and Putin's palace

01:42:37

We still haven't heard what Putin's palace was or is I? Have no idea what you're talking about.

01:42:43

Frankly. I'm sorry. I don't Well, I guess you'll have to ask Karen to show the wisha about that Thank you very much for your question today.

01:42:53

Well one of the The things that I want to before we run out of time.

01:42:59

I want you to give right now a summary of your impressions about the paranoia that That many citizens of the

01:43:10

United States have about Russia That of course has taken many forms going back to the days of McCarthy and even earlier

01:43:21

Joseph McCarthy, but and you have people both on the right and the left side of the aisle politically who claim to have some kind of disdain or fear or apprehension about the

01:43:35

Russian Federation about Putin perhaps some of those reasons Are are not completely

01:43:45

Genuinely Rising out of concerns for the United States, but personal political gain, but what is what is your overall opinion on in my opinion?

01:43:55

The present paranoia is unjustified. I think it is politically motivated and politically generated.

01:44:03

I think one would be wiser to consider the other side of the equation

01:44:10

Russian paranoia because that is there and has been there and it's there for good reason It was certainly present as a result of World War two the absolutely savaging of the country it was certainly there with the fall of the

01:44:24

Soviet Union and And people felt that personally and the fall of the Russian Federation when you lose your nation

01:44:32

Paranoia tends to set in it was there with the expansion of NATO. It was there on Other equations like the

01:44:39

US's refusal to cooperate seriously cooperate with the anti -islamic program

01:44:45

But this paranoia that's rose It's written is risen in this country since the election is

01:44:52

I think the most dangerous paranoia of all because it is not based on a rational foundation

01:44:58

I Think it's damaging and I think the more it lasts the more damaging it will be and I think if there is

01:45:06

Problem with Russia. It may be the the cause of the problem rather than Russian actions themselves and How many times have you actually visited in your life and career

01:45:19

The Kremlin and the Soviet Union and have you been back to Russia since the falling of the

01:45:24

Soviet Union? I visited extensively in the 1970s when studying

01:45:30

Russian went there as the Major in the US Army, they knew who I was They knew

01:45:35

I was studying Russian and we played many many games with our KGB counterparts who tailed us I was there in the 1980s in 1987

01:45:44

I was the first officer to be allowed by our country to visit Since the outbreak of the

01:45:50

Afghan war the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 That's when I made this declaration to the

01:45:55

Academy of Sciences about telling your own history. I was there Three quarters of the year each year 1988 to 1993

01:46:06

I've been back once 1997 to a conference my wife won't let me go because I got poisoned in 1992 possibly poisoned in 1992 and she cares for me.

01:46:17

That's right. That's can you tell us a little bit more about that? No, well, not really because Army medicine precluded finding out what it was that laid me up for six months and almost killed me because they did the test too late and They had been a bacteria, but it had disappeared.

01:46:33

They could identify what it was But I do know that later on someone from the Army medical office in Texas said yeah, you're one of those in 92 that got poisoned wouldn't surprise me, but I don't hold it against them

01:46:48

There were a lot of folks that didn't want cooperation on that side, too. You don't hold it against them for poisoning him

01:46:57

Now Obviously, you don't know yet if it was intentional poisoning. No, I have no idea. Oh, I do it whatsoever now

01:47:04

If you've eaten Russian salads you run a substantial risk Okay, you did anyway at that point by the way, one of my favorite restaurants in Manhattan is

01:47:14

Firebird, which is a Russian Restaurant it is absolutely incredible and I've got to go back my late wife and I used to love going to Firebird and having their

01:47:24

Borscht yeah, good Borscht is Great, and this had duck meat in it and all kinds of stuff, but I didn't get that in Russia, right?

01:47:31

I didn't assume maybe dog. This was like this was supposed to be a picture of the

01:47:37

Tsarist Russia was like a like you were walking to a millionaire's home. It was a very fancy place. It wasn't like a a

01:47:44

You know more of a rustic kind of a Russian place but uh the

01:47:51

Did have you did you make friendships or close close acquaintances anyway with people that you spoke with and visited while you were making these many trips and Did you and do you have to keep yourself on guard?

01:48:12

From having your views of their politics and their history In any way colored or softened because of the fact that you may have made friendships

01:48:22

No I certainly made friendships and that was part of the mission of Building the bridges was to meet people and make friends out of people.

01:48:28

We entertained many Russian generals many Russian junior officers I found most of them to be very courteous and would come upstairs in the evening and talk in my office and we'd

01:48:37

Talk about things that indicated were very much alike There was only one person in the entire entourage of about 50.

01:48:43

We entertained that my wife said she should have poisoned She he was she was probably right because he was a rather nasty character and he ended up as Zhirinovsky's Goebbels Wow That's quite a comparison

01:48:59

Well, very apt comparison. Really. I mean he was actually he was he was

01:49:05

Zhirinovsky's information office. Mm -hmm. Yes, and I I'm assuming brutal with that kind of a comparison

01:49:11

He was also in Vietnam when I was there, but he was flying Russian helicopters further north from where I was um

01:49:19

That he was KGB. No. Well now why what would be a reason that somebody from?

01:49:25

Now now this poisoning attempt that was under the Russian Federation or the the the this was 1992

01:49:32

September 9th because I keep record of my running each day. I had run six miles out by the

01:49:38

Academy of the General Staff came back Had a bad case of diarrhea took an

01:49:44

Imodium pill and by the next day every muscle in my body ached When I got back the

01:49:50

States I tried to run my six miles I made a quarter of a mile and quit and it was a six -month battle thereafter

01:49:57

Yeah, and I remember you were saying that over lunch that there were also another number of other people. Yes Yes, there were quite a few lot of Canadians also who suffered the same

01:50:06

No, what again again if you we learned in the 70s in Moscow and Leningrad that if you wanted to drink water safely

01:50:14

You had to pour scotch in it it will then turn turn purple potassium meant permit permanganate from the dead whatever it was in there and it was safe to drink and We brighten at this very moment are hearing the sounds of thousands of Presbyterians calling their travel agents

01:50:33

To Russia but Now What would be any reason why somebody from the

01:50:46

Russian Federation would want to poison you? Well in 1989 90 91 92 there was a great debate going obviously.

01:50:55

Do you do you develop a partnership with your with your your Adversary during the entire

01:51:02

Cold War I mean in it there were a few people then saying we brought the Soviet Union down that didn't go over very well

01:51:09

Incidentally, we didn't and and the people now saying routinely We won the Cold War and brought the

01:51:14

Soviet Union down does raise their hackles because by extension obviously you want to bring the Russian Federation down talk about paranoia.

01:51:22

There's the root of the paranoia So you don't you don't agree with the accolades that Ronald Reagan received for bringing down?

01:51:29

He didn't bring it down I mean he and Gorbachev had a handshake the handshake was a mutual agreement between the two to cease this senseless

01:51:37

Cold War That's exactly what was done. It was ceased and Gorbachev was laying the groundwork for the partnership before Yeltsin before the

01:51:46

Soviet Union fell in 91 Now when you were making these trips to one one thing sure if you want to some evidence of this go back into my journal

01:51:55

Slavic military study, which I changed the title that was originally the journal of Soviet military study

01:52:01

Okay, because of the partnership program. I changed the term to Slavic for back lack of a better word if you look at the 1980 1996 issues you'll find an article in there between a captain

01:52:11

Baranov and myself a naval captain in the Russian Navy That talks about the bases for that partnership.

01:52:17

It's right there in black and white so as late as 96 where we're still talking about and During those trips those many trips that you've made to the

01:52:27

Kremlin and to the Soviet Union and to Russia Did you ever get on that plane thinking I may never go home?

01:52:33

Yes every time if you've flown on a if you've flown on a Illusion out of Leningrad Airport in 1976 you realize that all of the

01:52:43

Russian pilots are fighter pilots and the way they test the ice in the runway is to go Down the runway full speed and stand the brakes on if it's fine

01:52:50

They turn around and go the other way and go full speed again Yes, I've written on I've written on several

01:52:55

Russian aircraft that I think I'd rather not have but other than that I mean more more sinister reasons.

01:53:01

No, no, no sinister reasons whatsoever and as far as when you were involved in these military meetings in the

01:53:14

Kremlin and so on on behalf representing the United States government And going up through the current day

01:53:23

What are the benefits of cooperation that you see with the

01:53:28

United States and Then the Soviet Union and now Russian Federation Mutual security clear and simple and this is another pension we have when we talk about negotiations

01:53:40

We we scarcely give account to what their national security Requires.

01:53:46

I remember a senator several have done this on television saying why goodness Russia doesn't work in the security interest of the

01:53:52

United States Of course not nations don't work in the security interest of other nations what they do is cooperate so the security of interest of both are addressed and How do you respond to people who think that since Putin and the

01:54:11

Russian Federation should not be trusted that any any kind of in -depth cooperation and exchanging of Critical information with them.

01:54:22

It only really puts us in jeopardy of having of getting stabbed in the back and having something

01:54:27

Occur to us that never would have likely happened. Well, it's nonsense because before you have sharing of critical information, whatever that is, you should have a discussion of issues and and and topics of interest to both extensive discussions

01:54:45

One of the one of the unfortunate instances of the last eight years is that those discussions were precluded and no one in the u .s

01:54:53

Military to my knowledge was allowed to speak to his counterpart. That does not help a mutual understanding in any way shape or form now we see images today of Putin in Russian Orthodox churches lighting candles and things like that.

01:55:07

Do you think that this is just a masquerade? I mean he after all was a part of a regime a very Crucial element of a regime that was trying to stamp out religion from existence

01:55:18

Yeah, but that that that's you don't understand what was happening in the early 1980s in Russia You remember

01:55:24

Reagan's comment when they said why don't you negotiate? He said I can't find a Russian who lives long enough to negotiate with after the death of Brezhnev in the dress of Chernenko you had

01:55:35

Andropov who was and you had several attempts by former KGB people to fix this mess before it all fell in Putin was assigned to his post in East Germany as a part of that effort to reform the

01:55:48

KGB He was supposed to be there to watch Hornecker was the most radical of all the communists in Eastern Europe and they were afraid the guy was going to do something that would

01:55:57

Really screw up East -West relations. That's Putin's background So it's a mixed background

01:56:02

Obviously, he's a he's KGB But he's also FSB and he also was sent there to do a mission of reform to some extent now

01:56:09

I don't know what his personal proclivities are But I think one of his major concerns is restoring national pride to Russia in an imperial sort of way

01:56:20

In a in a Russian unified nation. He has not clamped down on the press. I have friends

01:56:26

I know in Russia who write things about Putin that are worse than the things written about Trump in this country

01:56:34

And he hasn't been killed yet. I keep warning him, but he keeps doing it and Well, I'd like you to basically give us a summary of your final thoughts on this issue and there were many issues actually we were discussing but your your final thoughts

01:56:49

That you want our listeners to have etched in their hearts and minds in regard to Russia Final thoughts or read a little history

01:56:56

Don't have to read a lot of it, but read a little history and read the old history Don't read the new rewritten history that's been written with a purpose to erase the past Understand the

01:57:06

Russians be prepared to discuss with the Russians openly Be prepared for negotiations over things that are worth it worth negotiating because if you don't negotiate

01:57:16

I can tell you that that Both the interests of the Russian Federation and the United States are going to suffer down the road because we haven't seen

01:57:25

Which was new forces are on the scene that we're gonna have to deal with down the road David Ennis do you any final question for David Glantz?

01:57:35

It was we have time. I've had this on my mind politics. You mentioned Stalin Politics is very seductive and it can become cultic and certainly there was a cult of personality around Stalinist as as Khrushchev described it

01:57:50

Is there? What can we learn? From the

01:57:55

Russian experience especially in Russia where it was a very religious country as you described and yet it fell into this cult of Personality and we're tempted by that in this country whether you're talking about fanatical

01:58:08

Devotees to Donald Trump or Barack Obama. It's across the spectrum. Yeah, any thoughts on that that sort of temptation?

01:58:15

Yes Yeah, I have very strong thoughts about that cults of personality are dangerous. This goes back to the power corrupts.

01:58:21

Absolute power corrupts. Absolutely We saw it under Stalin reach it. It's worse.

01:58:27

We saw it under Hitler the same way we see it in Kim in North Korea Brezhnev in fact tried to reach that pinnacle

01:58:35

Fell ill before he could do so There is a danger with Putin now the the disinclination to do that is what happened to the predecessors that did that They were unsuccessful and unsuccessful to a to a major degree

01:58:48

Some are simply shot But Putin is susceptible and I would say any leader who who?

01:58:56

Purports to speak for the nation is susceptible to the same thing and the only check on that is the population of the nation being educated properly

01:59:05

That is the major check on personality cults. Well, I want to thank you so much

01:59:12

Colonel David Glantz for being our guest today. I look forward to having you back on the program I know that your website is glance books comm

01:59:20

Glantz books comm I want to thank you as well. Dr. David Ennis for joining us as a co -host today and the website for the

01:59:28

King's College is TKC edu TKC Edu and you can look up more about dr.

01:59:35

David Ennis by Typing in I N N ES in the search engine That's I NN as a

01:59:41

Nancy ES and I want to thank the Reverend Buzz Taylor in the studio for being my co -host today as Well, I want to thank everybody who took the time to not only listen but write in Questions and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater