Great Christian Biographies with John Piper: Jonathan Edwards 5

Objection number four, surely elevating the pursuit of joy to such an importance as you do,

Piper, will overturn the teaching of Jesus about self -denial.

How can you affirm a passion for pleasure as the driving force of the

Christian life and at the same time embrace the teaching of Jesus about self -denial?

Edwards turns this objection right on its head, so did

Jesus. So many people read Mark 8 34, he would come after me, let him deny himself and take up a cross and follow me, period, stop, cross, bear, suffer, deny, period, like wait a verse.

Four, four, ground, he who would save his life will lose it and he who loses his life for my sake in the

Gospels saved it. What kind of an argument is that? You want to save your life?

Lose it. That's a strategy for saving it.

Jesus isn't interested in sending people to hell, he came to save, so lose it.

Now Edwards turns this objection in his own way on its head like this.

He argues that self -denial not only does not contradict the quest for joy, but in fact destroys the root of sorrow and paves the way for joy.

Here's the quote, self -denial will also be reckoned among the troubles of the godly.

Yes it is. But whoever has tried self -denial can give in his testimony that they never experience greater pleasure and joys than after great acts of self -denial.

Self -denial destroys the very root and foundation of sorrow, and is nothing else but the lancing of a grievous and painful sore that effects a cure and brings abundance of health as a recompense for the pain of the operation.

You've tasted this. You've tasted this. You're sitting there at the computer, right? Pornography is just one click away.

Everything in you, 30 % of you women, all of you men know I'm talking about. At least that's what

I've read. I don't know anything about women. I've never been one. So you're just a millisecond away.

Women out of curiosity, men out of lust. Just pure lust. You're that far away, and God shows up, and you sever that craving for worldly two -bit half pleasures, and he triumphs for you, and you lose it.

You lose the pleasure. Sleep like a baby. Don't think self -denial is about making you miserable.

It's about saving you. Objection number five.

Becoming a Christian adds more trouble to life and brings persecutions, reproaches, suffering, even death.

Witness a week ago. It is misleading, therefore, to say that the essence of being a

Christian is joy. There are overwhelming losses.

There are overwhelming sorrows in the Christian life. Piper, get a life! This would be a compelling objection in a world like ours, so full of suffering, so full of hostility to Christianity, if God were not sovereign, and God were not good, and God were not wise.

Edwards is unwavering in his biblical belief. God designs all the afflictions of the godly for the increase of their everlasting joy.

Say that again. Edwards argues God designs all the afflictions of the godly for the increase of their everlasting joy.

He puts it in a striking way when he says this. Religion, meaning

Christianity, brings no new troubles upon a man but what have more pleasures than trouble.

Religion brings no new troubles upon a man except those troubles that have more pleasure than trouble.

In other words, the only troubles that God permits in the lives of Christians are those that will bring more pleasure than trouble with them when all things are considered.

He cites four passages of Scripture. Number one, Matthew 5 11, Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.

Rejoice and be glad, for great is your reward in heaven.

James chapter 1, Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet various trials, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.

Acts chapter 5 verse 41, Then they left the presence of the council rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name.

Hebrews 10 34, You joyfully, joyfully accepted the plundering of your property since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one.

In other words, yes, becoming a Christian adds more trouble to your life, it does. We should never win people to Christ by promising them less trouble.

We should tell them, no, count on more, not less, more. Count the cost.

Yes, becoming a Christian means more trouble and brings persecutions, reproaches, suffering, and Jesus said, some of you they will kill.

This is not unexpected, all right. If you think Christians being killed is unexpected, you just don't read your

Bible or don't take it seriously. We better start taking it seriously.

Yes, there are overwhelming losses and sorrows, but the pursuit of infinite pleasure in God and the confidence that Christ purchased it for us does not contradict these sufferings, but carries them, carries them.

Objection number six, doesn't the elevation of joy to such a supreme position lead away from the humility and brokenness that ought to mark the

Christian? Doesn't it have the flavor of triumphalism, that very thing that Edwards disapproved of in the revival excesses of his own day?

It could be taken that way. Christian hedonism could be taken that way. All truths can be distorted and misused, but if this happens, it will not be the fault of Jonathan Edwards.

The God -enthralled vision of Jonathan Edwards does not make a person presumptuous, it makes him meek.

Listen to these beautiful words. I think this is probably just about the most beautiful paragraph he ever wrote.

I can remember reading it in Germany in 1971 in a rocking chair. I can smell the book because it was a very, very old book from the 17th, 18th century.

All gracious affections are a sweet aroma to Christ that fill the soul with a

Christian heavenly sweetness and fragrancy.

They are brokenhearted affections. A truly Christian love, either to man or God, is a humble, brokenhearted love.

The desires of the saints, however earnest, are humble desires. Their hope is a humble hope.

Their joy, even when it is unspeakable and full of glory, is a humble, brokenhearted joy.

I remember stopping, I remember stopping when I read that, thinking, I've never had that category in my mind at all, brokenhearted joy.

I've just never had that category in my head, brokenhearted joy. And there it was, and I thought, yeah,

I mean, without that, we are gonna be triumphalistic. We're gonna be strutting through the world, telling people to be happy in Jesus, and the flavor about it will be just all wrong.

It'll be all wrong. Even when it is unspeakable and full of glory, it is a humble, brokenhearted joy, and leaves the

Christian more poor in spirit, more like a little child, more disposed to a universal lowliness of behavior.

Now, sensitive point. I don't presume or claim that Edwards lived up to his teachings.

He himself would not have claimed that he lived up to his teachings. No preacher lives up to his preachings.

If he does, he's not preaching high enough. Edwards fell seriously short on the issue of slavery.

He owned a slave, and this has undermined his usefulness to many people.

And it is a sadness for those of us who love him. Wouldn't it be for you if you found out one of your heroes was not all you thought he was?

But this paragraph right here seems to me to contain seeds of brokenheartedness for such failures, the ones he didn't recognize, the ones we do, and these seeds are deeply embedded in his

Christian hedonism, which leads finally to the last objection.

Piper, you've talked a long time tonight. Where's the cross of Jesus?

Where's justification by faith alone? Where's the blood? Where's regeneration by the spirit?

The answer is that the wrath -absorbing death of Jesus Christ, crucified, we call it propitiation, the wrath -absorbing death of Jesus Christ, crucified, and the divine act of God becoming 100 % for us on the basis of Christ through faith alone, we call that justification.

And the creation of a new heart in us, a heart of faith, which we call regeneration.

All of that, Edwards makes plain, is the great and indispensable foundation of eternal happiness with God.

So here's the closing quote, and I'll be done. The redeemed, the redeemed have all their objective good in God.

God himself is the great good which they are brought to the possession and enjoyment of by redemption.

He is the highest good and the sum of all good which Christ purchased.

God is the inheritance of the saints. He is the portion of their souls.

God is their wealth and treasure, their food, their life, their dwelling place, their ornament and diadem, and their everlasting honor and glory.

The glorious excellencies and beauty of God will be forever, will forever entertain the minds of the saints, and the love of God will be their everlasting feast.

The redeemed will enjoy other things. They will enjoy angels, and will enjoy one another.

But that which they shall enjoy in angels, or in each other, or anything else whatsoever that will yield them delight and happiness, will be what will be seen of God in them.

That's what Christ died for, that God would be eternally and supremely glorified through the saints being eternally and supremely satisfied in him.

That's the goal of Christian hedonism. That's the goal of Edwards. That's my goal.

I believe it's the goal of God in all of redemptive history. So Father, as we turn now to think more together in questions and answers, come, apply these things to us.

This is not a mere lecture or academic exercise.

This is an encounter with biblical reality that says we do not glorify you if we are not satisfied in you above everything else in the world.

This is really serious. So come, work this in your people by your miraculous spirit,

I pray in Jesus' name, amen. Amen. What are the top three things that the

Western Church needs to change to reach an increasingly skeptical world?

It doesn't have to be the top three, but what off your head is something that the church needs to change to reach an increasingly skeptical world?

I'm not sure the world is increasingly skeptical. I think it's always been deeply, deeply skeptical.

It has new forms. You're thinking America when you say that, because America used to be such a predominantly white

Protestant -dominated reality. It's not anymore. It's over. The story's over, and we're waking up from the dream world of thinking we're not a footnote in world history.

We are a footnote. So that's my first response. The second thing is become Christian hedonists. I think, you know, we were at this...

I follow up on the debate with the panel. There was concern on the panel expressed that since you don't like the word fun, what's your response to Christians who think...

to people who think Christians are duds and they don't have a good time? I don't think very many people are in hell today because we don't have good parties.

I think a lot of people are in hell today because we don't love well. I mean seriously well.

Parties don't save people. Come on, give me a break. People are not brought to their senses by watching

Christians click their heels. They are brought to their senses by watching Christians lay down their lives for other people.

So let's do more of that. I've got a new word for you the next time we have our dialogue.

Instead of fun, I'm gonna use the phrase sweet entertainment, because I reckon you won't fuss with Jonathan Edwards.

That's all I mean, sweet entertainment. How do you grow desire to be allured by God and kill shallow desires?

How do you grow desire to be allured? Yeah, yeah. Pray and read your

Bible. Can I? Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the

Word of God doesn't just mean at the beginning of life. It means all the way through life. And faith, according to John 635, is a coming to God to be satisfied in him.

I am the bread of life. Who comes to me shall never thirst. Who believes in me shall never hunger. And therefore, if that's what faith is, and faith comes by hearing, then we need to listen every day to the

Word of God. Or Galatians 3, 5 says, Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, which is what we need to happen, right?

If does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so, excuse me, do so by hearing with faith or by works of the law?

And the answer is hearing with faith. Hearing what? Hearing the Word of God. So I don't know any other answer than the good old -fashioned answers.

Set aside an hour every morning, or whatever you can, and linger long, meditatively and prayerfully, crying out to God, open my eyes to see wonderful things.

Because if you see the wonderful things that are here, your affections will be awakened. If you don't see them, they won't awaken your affections.

So prayer is what you pour over this book. May I add a word?

You may. It's your party. I will say, sweet entertainment,

I will say, I will say the same thing you just said, but I'll use a different passage.

Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. All these things will be added, but here's the key.

For wherever your treasure is, there you will find your heart.

So if you invest in your treasure, in seeking God, and who He is, and what

He has done for you, and how He has changed your life, the allure will be there. If you invest your treasure in something else, the allure will be there.

Where you invest your treasure, there you'll find your heart. Fair? Fair. Okay. I'm one out of two with him this weekend.

What do you say to people struggling to shun worldliness and find satisfaction in God?

Related question, but what do you say? In fact, it's the same question. Okay, then we're skipping.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It gives me a chance to go back and clarify, lest I was too hard on free, on willpower, okay?

So I really dumped, I got angry at willpower religion, because Paul does in Colossians 2 .23.

However, he does say kill sin. You know, if you live according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the

Spirit, you kill sin. That's not a gentle passage. Kill it! So if sin started to creep up on you, slit its throat!

Which is, which is, which is why the one weapon in the armor in, in Ephesians 6 is, is a sword.

It's the one offensive weapon. It's the only weapon you kill things with, right? You don't kill people with your shield, or your helmet.

You can headbutt a reporter, but you can't, you can't, you can't kill a reporter with your, no, but you can stick him.

So the, if you were, what was the sentence again? She said, he said, it's on the floor.

How do you, you're struggling to, what was the word? Something? Shun! Shun! Shun! Yes!

Okay, so like this, and this is a, this is a promise, and you stick it. You stick it with the promise of God, and there is a sense of really strong, willing at that moment.

I'm willing. I'm not just passively saying, give me more satisfaction, give me more satisfaction. I'm actually opposing my sin.

So I don't want to be unbiblical in my overemphasis on opposing willpower. And again, it is my party.

I'll add one more cause. Often we are told to stand and fight and stand against him, but we're also told to flee from certain temptations too.

There comes a time where instead of standing and sticking, turn and run, because you don't need to linger in front of the computer.

Favorite book by Jonathan Edwards and why? Say that again? Favorite book by Jonathan Edwards and why?

Related question also in here. If someone wants to start reading Edwards, where do they start? Yeah, well,

Joe Rigney should answer the question. He knows Edwards better than I do. He teaches at Bethlehem. The most important book

I ever read by Edwards was The End For Which God Created the World, because it shaped my whole worldview. The end for which

God created the world. The most practically convicting and moving book is The Religious Affections.

If you want to start with the book, that's where I'd start. I'd start with The Religious Affections. It will devastate you.

You'll wonder if you're a done, which isn't altogether bad, provided God has mercy and rescues you from the pit of self -doubt that it creates.

If you want to start with slower, it's hard. A lot of people don't read 400 -page books, and his sermons just go online.

Everything Edwards ever wrote is available online, and find a with an intriguing title.

Like, you know, don't resist any appetite for Jesus or something and read it. It'll take you 15 -20 minutes to read it.

That's what I'd do if you don't want to do a big book. All right, I'm touched by this question. What advice would you give if I have no joy in Bible reading and prayer?

We all are in that situation from time to time, so don't consider yourself unique.

This is not like, oh, I got over that season of my life. That will never happen. That will never happen in this life.

You'll have seasons where every line shines like you're eating a feast, and you'll have seasons where the lines seem as blank as they can possibly be for days on end, maybe weeks on end, maybe months on end.

So that's the first thing to say is you're not a unique person. You're in a sad moment or season, and what

I would say is don't be content to settle for willpower religion.

I can still read my Bible. I can still pray, and feelings don't matter. They do matter. They matter a lot.

So I -O -U -S is what I use. Brian has it written in his

Bible. I have it written in my head. I pray, incline my heart to your testimonies.

That's I. I pray, open my eyes that I may see wonderful things. That's O. I pray, unite my heart to fear your name.

That's U, and I pray, satisfy me in the morning with your steadfast love. That's S. I -O -U -S, and they're all quotes from the

Psalms, which means Psalms are books that connect with our miseries, and so linger over the

Psalms and pray the Psalms. Amen. Okay, how can one delight in God more than in the kickbacks?

Help. Maybe if that doesn't seem like something that's rational or possible, pick a person in your life.

Spouse, child, whatever. Would you say, husbands, would you say to your wife,

I just love you so much so that you'll make me a nice supper tonight?

She won't like that. She'll say, I don't think that's what love is.

I love you so much so that you'll fix me a nice supper tonight, or that she'll be ready for sex tonight.

So if you know that, you feel that, she wants to be cherished because she is she, not because she's gonna do something for you, fix you a meal, be good in bed, work with you on some project.

She just, can you just, can I feel cherished by you? And if you get that, you can get that with God, can't you?

You can get that. So I'm sure if Joe, who wrote a good book on things of earth, to answer that question better than I do, he would say that all those gifts are not primarily designed by God as temptations, because they're gonna be there in the new heavens and the new earth in some form.

Like our bodily existence, with all the benefits of bodily existence, is not going to be wiped out in the eschaton.

It's gonna be there. Well why, if it's just trouble? Well it's not just trouble, it's revelation.

God means to be known better because of bacon. For those of you, keep kosher, he means turkey bacon, go ahead.

So yeah, I just tried it this morning. I first got my cereal, did the best

I could with the cereal they had over at the Garden Inn, which is pretty not what I eat at home. And then when

I was done and I had my blackberries and my blueberries and my special K and my granola and I was done,

I looked over there and I saw that bacon. And I went over and I got three strips of bacon, because I never eat bacon.

We don't cook breakfast, we eat cereal. So I never eat bacon. And I just savored that bacon.

And my language is, I transpose the music of bacon taste to love for God.

Here's one more example, because this is really where we all are. After about a year of preaching at Bethlehem in 1980, one of the men in our church, he's still there, 35 years later, he's still there.

And he came up to me and he said, I don't have any experience corresponding to your emotion talk and your delight talk and your satisfaction talk in God.

That is a foreign language to me. I am not that kind of person. This is a

Scandinavian church. And I said,

I don't believe you. I said, what do you do in summer for fun?

And he said, because you've got to start where people are, right? He said, well, I go to the

Boundary Waters. Boundary Waters, northern Minnesota. Tell me about it.

He said, well, you go to the Boundary Waters outside this city and you put out your mat at night with no tent overhead and look into those stars.

I said, whoa, whoa, Mike, Mike, that's what I'm talking about. That's what

I'm talking about. Can you, next time you go up there and you lie down on your back and it's just before to start sleep and this is a sheet of white and you are drawn out of your little city self to feel something magnificent and big, can you just transpose that music up to the maker?

Can you do that? Just do that. Try it. Because I think that's the way it's designed.

I got a whole slew of quotes here from Lewis, but I won't take the time on this. This is really important that all of you learn how to transpose the music of natural pleasures given by God into the music of delight in God.

If you can't do that, you'll remain an idolater. You'll be a spirit, a carnal, unspiritual person just hitting the ceiling of the of the skies and never breaking through.

The heavens are telling the glory of God and if you if you only love the heavens you're not going to be saved.

And if you want a sample of that, short of Edwards, read Psalm 8.

What do we do about having mixed motives? Must my motives for doing something be only

God's glory? What if I still have remnants of selfishness? Should I wait until my motives are totally pure?

Or do I accept that as part of being human? You should not wait and you should not accept.

So nobody in this room has pure motives, therefore if you wait you'll never do anything.

But if you say, not a problem, I'm just human, you don't hate sin enough and you'll never sing the song that talks about sin no more, save to sin no more.

You'll never sing that song with tears the way a lot of people do and should. So the answer is no you don't wait, you move forward repenting all the way and loving the gospel, loving the gospel, right?

I mean what else did he die for except those mixed motives? My only hope, my only hope of heaven is that my mixed motives are forgiven.

If I wait until John Piper has a pure motive, I'm not doing anything.

And some of you, now there's personality issues at work here, some of you are wired to feel so guilty that you're paralyzed, you can hardly move because you feel so bad about knowing what selfishness is still there in your heart.

And others of you never struggle at all. And both of you need to move.

And you move by the gospel. The gospel helps the the struggler break free from the paralysis of,

I'm just so bad I can't do anything right. Embrace the gospel and you do what you can do.

And the person who never, you know, never has any problem at all because they don't feel or don't have any introspective bone in their body, they need to read the gospel, hear the gospel, and know that the gospel indicts them and then saves them.