Question and Answer Session (Justin Peters and Frank Mullis)

This is the last of the sessions from the Sanctification through suffering conference that we had recently in New Jersey with Justin Peters Frank Mullis as the keynotes and they're gonna do a

Q &A from the questions that we had Q &As are always great because the Q &A you get to learn a little bit more about the speakers

They're a bit a little bit more light -hearted and a little bit more personal not just preaching

So, I hope that you will enjoy the Q &A It was from several months ago from the time

It's airing now and actually by the time this airs I've already come back from the

Philippines This will be when I return So but we will let you know that we mentioned in there about the the funding the

Philippines trip cost us the two ministries together a Justin Peters ministry and striving fraternity cost us about $4 ,800 for the combined $2 ,400 each and I know for striving fraternity.

We have only raised a third of that so far So if you could help that would be great. You go to striving for eternity dot o -r -g

Slash donate we greatly appreciate that Welcome to the rap report with Andrew rap report where we provide biblical interpretations and applications

This is a ministry of striving for eternity More content or to request a speaker a seminar for your church go to striving for eternity org

All right So this is usually a fun time this is where you get to see some of the speakers kind of more

Usually they give more You get to see a little bit more of themselves not just being so serious behind a pulpit

But this one may be this might be different with some of the questions we have. So I'm gonna I'll start off Well, okay,

I guess I was gonna say I'll start off with something light, but this one's not okay, so Looking at some of these questions the first one

How do you help someone who is in an abusive marriage specifically emotional abuse?

Good Help someone who's in an emotionally abusive marriage.

Well, you know fact of the matter is a Bible only gives One reason for divorce and that is sexual infidelity on the part of the other

Partner the other spouse in a marriage. I would never counsel a woman to live

And under the same roof with a man who is abusing her physically And I think she is under no obligation to stay in enough in a physically abusive

Situation she can move and get live somewhere else without divorcing

Chances are the husband will probably divorce her when she does that but emotionally abusive

Is not a reason for divorce Gosh Get her in touch

Put her in in contact with some godly ladies in the church that can support her and encourage her

And she has to to persevere, of course, I guess you you know, what what exactly is meant by emotional abuse

I don't I don't know. I mean that's kind of a broad It would depend on the severity of it, but it's not a reason for divorce, but she would have as best she can

That she would encourage her to be willing to forgive her husband if he repents if he does not

She has to remain in the in the marriage covenant But I guess the the severity of the abuse and the kind of abuse you're talking about would would determine whether or not she should stay

In the in the same roof, you know under the same roof. So I guess it would depend on how Severe it is

I'm more strict in my view of divorce, I Think that the case with Jesus says

I think the Greek text says even in the case of sexual adultery So I'm even more strict in it.

However, you know Paul gives the out if the unbelieving spouse abandons I would that route but it's the the question is emotional abuse

I would I would argue they don't have to stay in an emotionally or physically in the house and This of course if if they're believers and we're talking church discipline

You know church discipline is one of the ways in which the church cleans up its house

You know in that and follow the Matthew 18 principle if she goes to the pastor There's a there's a question in the back there as a follow -up,

I guess Yeah, let me just repeat that so we have it so it's it's the issue of the abuse is just a controlling behavior moving them out of a church that's local to a church an hour away and Just do more and more to try to control not allow her to be out of the house during the day things like that, right so, okay, so you're you're looking on how to how to help them with a

First grader who's having symptoms of ulcers and things like that as well But yeah well when when this when the church, you know when the church can intervene the the state intervenes often in those situations and I Would encourage her to find a safe place away, you know again, we're not talking divorce

We're talking separation, you know, the world's going to say a leave him run away divorce him and then and things of that nature

If the church can't the church can't be involved the state often gets involved, especially when children are involved

And they kind of go from there Yeah, just I don't want to the only thing I don't want to do is we have a ton of questions

I want to take because I know you took it from I Just repeat the question, okay, basically he's wanting borderline personality disorder

There's there's different categories of personality disorder. Most of us know narcissistic, right?

You know that one histrionic borderline is one more predominant in women so You just go there, but I do have clients

I do have male clients who have borderline and borderline is extreme fluctuations in Love and hate that's really the probably the best way to describe it one minute you're their best friend and next minute you're their hated enemy and They they don't deal well with any type of negative

Comments this one one of the signs and symptoms that I used to recognize as the cutting and you'll see a lot of cutting in In borderlines, so that's one of the quick ways and you know, you do have emotional cutters but borderline, you'll see the cutting or self -abuse a lot of Suicide attempts.

So that's that's the best way. I kind of described borderline. It's not my expertise there are specific therapies that have been developed for Borderline That's that's the way

I kind of look at it I mean, I said again, it's not my expertise But I have clients who deal with that and I'm always very cautious with them because they can be kind of scary

Okay, and what we'll do just so you know, you know If we're gonna try to answer the questions here if you have further follow -up and all we're gonna try to still be here for a

Bit afterwards, so, you know if we don't answer it well enough So, how does a

Christian recover from a serious From a serious situation or a sin or situation that a

Christian should not have Not have gone through divorce bankruptcy moral sin.

So it's basically I think it's more how does someone recover from? situations of sin and That we're not their fault.

It looks like or even that we're not or what about fault? I'm guessing that it says that they because it says a

Christian should not have gone through so I was thinking it's going through a situation where it wasn't dealing with a sin or situation of someone else that you have to did you end up recovering from or it could be that sin that Christians shouldn't have done, but they did it and now they're kind of Ostracized from the church.

I think that was kind of where the question Was that I'm noticing a trend you won't let

Justin's Okay Okay. So how do I recover from a sin that as a

Christian I should not have done or so? Yes, or either or I mean, you know We're covered from a serious sin or an embarrassing sin one on the family and so forth that Okay Okay.

Well if it's a situation, okay, if it's a okay So if it's a sin of someone that someone else committed that's close to me,

I guess forgiveness If that person if you have reason to believe that person is not a believer to give them the gospel

But you have to you have to forgive if it's a sin that you have committed as a believer

Of course, it's a little bit redundant because no sin we should commit as believers But but if it's some

I mean some really egregious acute, you know Disqualifying type sin

You repent I mean you repent that's that's what you do you repent If you have harmed someone else in your sin

You go to that person and you confess it and you ask for his or her forgiveness But you go to the

Lord and you confess your sin first John 1 9 if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness

That verse is usually taken as an evangelistic verse It's not really an evangelistic verse that verse that was written to believers.

So You go to the Lord you confess and you repent and as I say if you've wronged someone else you do your best to make

It right by that person But you you simply repent and and go forward I've been asked a few times

Justin. What do you think about 12 -step programs? You know like celebrate recovery and blah blah blah.

I don't think much of them That was the answer when you said blah blah blah we yeah Yeah, there aren't 12 steps there's one step repent that's the step so I'm glad that I'm glad there's such gray areas with you

And it's not so judgment, right and if you have truly repented that there will be fruit in keeping with that If you have wronged someone then then you you need to have

Zacchaeus kind of repentance you go and you make it right But but there's just one step repent

The church should not make it difficult for a repentant person to return to the fold

That's right I mean that's the purpose of church discipline is to perform the church discipline for the person to repent and if they repent they're restored and then if we hold if we hold it against Them then we're not the church that we're supposed to be and in my

I have clients who were saved after they were registered sex offenders and They have churches that do not accept them and they send them on their way

I understand the caution this there, but I found churches with sex offenders.

I'll just use that To extremes come on in welcome That's one extreme

That's not good Then we have the other one We're gonna have you arrested if you set foot on our property again, so that's the other extreme

So, you know, I think if you if you see a true sign of repentance and there is restoration.

That's the purpose of the church Search for once Hmm. Oh, yeah.

Yeah such were some of the first Corinthians 6 such were some of you and and just as a tag -along I don't know at all that that was in that this is in view in that question but if you are a minister of some sort and you have a

Moral failure moral sin you're dequeued you are dequeued from ministry doesn't mean

Doesn't mean you're not saved if you repent you you can be a member of a church

But you're dequeued you're disqualified from preaching you you fail morally you are no longer above reproach

You should never step foot in the pulpit again No, no, we'll do it.

We'll do that. Yeah, I don't because otherwise we it's it's there's a lot of reasons Why we won't do follow, you know, just that we'll do that after.

Yeah No, you mentioned son, so I'll change the order I was gonna do it and I see this one not that I'm familiar with this program

But do programs like grief share help with people suffering from loss?

I don't know if you're even fine. I'm not I've heard of it, but I'm not familiar. So No, look,

I think I think groups that people can sit down and help one another

I don't see issues with that. I've got a whole paper on the 12 -step program That if you'd like to know the history of the 12 -step programs,

I'll be gladly send that to you but You know You just have to be careful of anything that flows outside of Scripture when they offer help if you're a

Christian, you know Okay What do you do as a

Christian when your mind fails you when there is so much Torment and pain that there seems to be no way out.

All right one more time Okay, what do you do as a Christian when your mind fails you so that's one question and then when there is so much

Torment and pain that there seems no way out. I guess is the follow -up sex So the first part is your mind fails you

I guess you have to define that So referring you mental illness So if his mental illness and you know seek help, right,

I mean right Yeah, but I will Look we have to understand the brain gets sick

It's an organ your brain can get sick and it needs to recover and needs help I mean, that's that's it just like your heart

You know If you have a heart attack you need to see someone if your brain gets sick and it can for various reasons

Or whether it's organic, I mean a true physical, you know And there there are obviously diseases that can affect the brain that we don't even know about Robin Williams suicide was

He was affected by some disease that I'd never even heard of until after The fact and his brain was eat up with these like plaque like things so There there are organic things and that's why physical

MRIs Exist cat scans exist now and so I would I would recommend that and then to the second part.

What was it? the second part is When there's so much pain and torment that it feels like there's no way out again.

Don't trust your feelings be Spock Okay, that's a that's a Star Trek. I thought he's gonna go start and yes as a nerd.

Yes I watched Star Trek logic, you know, look our thinking don't trust your feelings first trust what you know

Know the scriptures. All right, go back to the scriptures and keep seeking the scriptures over and over again until the scripture

Changes the way you feel. Yeah, I don't really know what I could add to that Let the

Word of Christ dwell richly within you and the more it dwells richly within you the more your mind will be transformed

And transformed and conformed into the image of Christ so and in seek the fellowship of the

Saints Yes, seek the fellowship of the Saints and the reason Spock was only half Vulcan is because he was gonna be able to pull off no emotion at all.

All right What is the right approach to deal with a

Christian with an active suicide? idealism, I think ideation

Who has a plan I guess this goes back to what you were saying with with James Yes I'm Mandated as a licensed professional counselor

I'm mandated so I have to in Florida is Florida's called the Baker Act, Georgia has something else

But it's it is if someone comes to me and I believe it's a legitimate threat of suicide

I call law enforcement and have them locked up. I have that power Yeah Was not only as a as a counselor, but also as a pastor, right?

You're you're I don't George is weird Yes, I know and the people that come from there. Yes, they are Georgia's Georgia is strange

I don't the floor Just a couple years ago Georgia just speaking of mandated reporters

Georgia only Used to not even require pastors to be mandated reporters and they just added only if it's the victim who tells you so if A perpetrator tells you that they have abused someone you are not mandated to report in Georgia But if the victim is and that's yeah

It's bizarre. Yes Okay. Well just Georgia's going weird.

No, it was always weird. Did you want to answer that one or no? Yeah, no, I would just say if the person if you think the person is some in Immediate danger of actually killing themselves.

Yeah call law and first enforcement first get them physically safe And then as you have opportunity give them the gospel

Anything less than the gospel is just a band -aid on a gunshot wound It's not gonna do them any lasting good with only the gospel

With James until he promised me that he wasn't gonna I was going to have him He wouldn't tell me where he was.

That was the difficult part He wouldn't tell me where it was But I would have I'd have tracked him down if I had to call law enforcement and have them run

Something on him till till I found him. I mean, I wasn't going to because he was it was a legitimate threat of suicide

And I guess this kind of follows up with Sun you said earlier Justin but Tips on fellowship what if you don't have friends in Christ because you had you had mentioned, you know the fellowship on the previous question

So what this one's more if what if you don't have friends are in Christ, what do you do for fellowship? Yeah well,

I don't know implied in that does that mean you don't have a church that you go to because if you have a church You should you should have that Not all churches are very friendly

No, obviously not your church. I've been there but other churches Right, probably in Georgia.

You need to work on your evangelism skills a whole lot Of Course I would say if you're if you're a member of a good

Doctrinally sound church doesn't have to be a perfect one There's no such thing as a perfect church, but if you're a member of a good doctrinally sound church, you you shouldn't be an island

I mean, that's the that's one of the primary functions of the local body is to provide fellowship and encouragement edification and correction when it's necessary so if you're a member of a church, you shouldn't have that problem, but if you if there just Absolutely is no church

I mean if there's not a good doctrinally sound church within 200 miles of you or something You just cannot there's isn't one which

I wouldn't think would be the case, but I don't I don't know I mean you've got to it you feed yourself with God's Word on your own.

Listen to good sound preaching and teaching Make some contact somehow with some people in other churches

If you if there's just absolutely not a church anywhere near you that you can go to but again

Even that I have a hard time believing that that especially in a area this densely populated that that would be a problem

I know not I know good churches aren't on every corner I get that but but you should be able to find one and and I tell people too because I get emails a lot

Well, Justin, there's not a good church in my area. What do I do? Find one no matter how far away it is

It's don't go to a bad church. Don't do that Don't think you're gonna be a voice of truth and you're gonna change you're gonna be this little island of truth and an otherwise

Bad church and you stay there and you're trying to help people get out of there. Don't go to a bad church

No matter how far you have to go find a good one And even if you can only go once or twice a month because it's so far away

Better to go to a good church once or twice a month than a bad church every week

So if that's the situation contact the church, let them know. Hey, I live 150 miles away.

I can't come every week but I'll try to come once a month and You know make the best of a bad situation most churches

They have their sermons online and you can you can keep up even when you can't go So better to go to a good church once or twice a month than a bad one every week

So you're saying I shouldn't stay in the Catholic Church to be a light negative Get out of Dodge.

No, you know, I'm Facebook live 11 a .m. Every Sunday Yeah, that's not gonna help the fellowship part of that question

You know Justin let me just because I'm familiar with your church Maybe you could speak to you actually have a member that goes to your church that comes from another state

Yeah, that drives. I think it was two hours one way There's two or three hours one way and they're there church three times a week.

I'd say it's a good hour and a half Yeah, there are a half. Okay, and Kathy now when Kathy now lived in Oklahoma We drove a hundred and six miles one way to church every

Sunday that I wasn't preaching myself somewhere To go to a good church and we made that drive every week, you know that I wasn't there

So it's having a good church. Is that important? It's that important. So you want to add anything to this?

right Look at him spying on the questions I already know I already know one of the questions if he didn't write it.

He had Brian write it for him I know it. All right this one This one may be more up your alley though Frank Can you speak more on the state of Christian counseling today and where the trends are heading?

You have to actually pick up the mic to speak friend Told me let me think about that for say 10 minutes.

I Have been on both sides of the table. I've been in secular field. I have been in the

Current program. I'm in now that's a blended program and I have been in the the biblical counseling realm there

The biblical counseling was a backlash against Christian psychology Now the blended movement is a backlash against the biblical counseling

So it is swinging back and forth my my biggest my biggest fear is that Christian counselors are

Buying into secular models and I see that but I really say

I've seen that seen that a whole lot The problem is that a lot of the biblical counseling programs don't address the psychological models correctly and what

I mean by that there is some truth in the Secular counseling models, but you know

Satan had some truth, too so my my leaning today is that Christian counseling has to Deal with deal with the secular model because most people that go look for a counselor

There's no biblical counselors in their community in the community. I'm in about 18 ,000 people.

There is one Christian counseling Center that I would not even be a part of they asked me

I was like, no It would been like that light in the Catholic world. I was like no the the head of the counseling program the

Reverend she she She Mentioned that we weren't there to proselytize

And so as soon as she said that I'm like, okay, I'm not going to be part of this So there are some secular counselors that I would recommend over them

I just I don't have time. I don't spend a whole lot of time doing it but in Communities that are much larger.

I would seek a strong biblical counselor. The the problem is is that there's very few

Pastors they don't want to counsel. That's just the plain truth of it. Most pastors don't have time to counsel They don't want to do it.

There's a lot of topics that come up They don't want to deal with and a lot of the parishioners. They don't want the pastor

Looking at them funny on Sunday morning after they come and confess something to them So that's kind of how

I feel about the state there does need to be some churches that step up and create a biblical counseling program within their church and So that's kind of my my take on it.

Justin. What do you have in your community your church have a biblical counseling program? No We don't well, let me ask you this as a follow -up to that on my own with what you said when you said you have a reverend and she

Do you think that a female who claims to be a pastor could do biblical counseling?

No, I read this tweet. I Read this tweet that somebody put out something like that.

I think it's an oxymoron No You didn't want to say what the tweet was that's good

Can I are you gonna say something? No, go ahead I was just gonna say, you know since talking about that open up that can of worms when it comes to ladies like Joyce Meyer and Beth Moore who openly teach men and they make no apologies about it if if you can't be if a woman cannot be trusted to be faithful to Biblical parameters on that issue then why listen to anything else?

She has to say why listen to anything else. She has to say so Anyway, and that would go for a man too who believes that a woman can fulfill those roles

And I wouldn't care to have it listen anything. He has to say either so I Think Frank's referring to a tweet that I put out that got me in a little bit of hot water

I had tweeted that if you're good if you go to a place where you have a woman that says she's a

Pastor or if you go to a church that says a woman with a woman as a pastor It's not a church and she's not a pastor got a little bit of heat for that Glad you agree with that Justin.

Yeah You're always safe if you're if Justin's agreeing with you, um, that's kind of the market, you know, you have scripture and then

Justin, right? All right What does or should

Christian counseling look like from a reformed perspective? Yeah Yeah, yeah, but I'm not an expert on Christian counseling and all the ins and outs of this and Frank's not an expert on reform so now my one of my good friends

Rob Thurman who's President Brooks Bible College. He's at masters in their doctoral program

He's you'll go to him for counseling and he will counsel you not about your problem.

No joke He hands you a book and says we're going to do discipleship and the problem they had after months of discipleship suddenly went away so what does it look like it looks very much like a

Restorative repentive as I think all those words repentive restorative But most of the time our problems are bad theology and that's what what

I think when we talk about biblical counseling is is That the reason you have that problem is that you really didn't understand what the

Bible said about your problem to start with You know, I'm not saying that there aren't again mental illness ideal Look, I'm going to court because of a schizophrenic at the end of the month.

So trust me There's certain things that are real. I know they're at least from my personal experience. There are mental illnesses that are quite real

Family members. I know they're quite real. So what I will say is is that biblical counseling?

There has to be an understanding of some of the secular issues there has to there has to be because they're there and that's what people understand, but the number one reason that medications and Diagnoses occur is because of insurance companies get involved

Most people cannot afford counseling the average counseling session without insurance is about a hundred to a hundred fifty an hour

With that it's about 45 up to 75 for a specialist is what my insurance company is

So counseling is very expensive So most people either go to the church or if they have insurance

They may go to a counselor and if they're they have a good amount of money They're able to afford a good counselor.

So what does good reform counseling look like it's it may be just you

Sitting down with someone who's got a problem in discipling them and I was just trying to look up real quick There's a pastor out in Boise area in That Chad Pridmore you could look him up on Facebook.

He's very much against a he was I think 20 years in a and Believes that it was wrong.

He's very much against the What's the recovery? That's one that was celebrate recovery recovery.

What he actually does is he goes through The Heidelberg confession with folks just goes through doctrine

I Folks here may be familiar with America's Keswick. It's not too far from here. I used to be a counselor down there

We used to have guys that come out and they have a mandatory Program when they come out that they must

Meet with someone for eight months with the pastor for eight months for an hour And if they're married, it's the husband and wife and basically if you are required to meet

What are you gonna do all week you want to think about what's you're gonna discuss my wife and I basically just said well

We're just gonna have you guys over for dinner and the wife was like, oh, I had pastor injury That's not gonna work. You don't know my husband.

He needs to be just I'm like look just come over for dinner when issues Come up. We'll deal with them I think there's only maybe three or four times in and we actually continued it for two years

And I think there's only three or four times We actually had an issue of that required counseling and they ended up saying they they learned a whole lot more just watch

Look you come home from work I know none of you guys ever experienced this but I would come home from work after a day of work and You come home to sit down with meal and the kids are acting up I know you never deal with those frustrations, but they got to watch me deal with it

But they learn more just watching me have to deal with kids throwing food or spilling milk or whatever

Okay, when you're frustrated, right? and so that's the thing like Frank was saying with his friend

Rob Thurman you don't have to actually deal with the counseling as much As the discipleship it's amazing

How really all we did was talk about different things going on in the church and it gave a different it just redirects it

All right, if I ask all of you this is on dual time If I asked all of you to think of the number seven for 30 seconds, what do you think you're gonna think of?

Okay, if I asked you for two minutes not to think of the number seven, what are you gonna do? Yeah, you're either gonna think not seven not seven not seven not seven, which is it's like the people say

I'm not gonna drink I'm not gonna drink. I'm not gonna drink. What are they thinking all the time drinking? I'm not gonna smoke

I'm not gonna smoke. I'm not they're thinking of smoking, right? Though it's the replay the way you're not gonna think about seven is to think about five twenty one seventeen

You know something think of something else and that's what discipleship does it they've started go

Oh, I haven't even thought about that. So I'm gonna read this one as it is I don't know if I want you throwing anything

He's been talking about yelling at him like holler at me. Well, bless your heart

When we come across people who have problems don't look at where they are now

Look at what they were in the past where they are now may be better than the way they were in the past and we see a process of getting better and maybe

Even a process of sanctification. Someone said something about my men's Sunday school class He goes man, yours men's

Sunday school class needs a lot of work and I was like you should have been here a year ago And and that's my point is you may come across someone who's come to you with a problem

It may have gotten worse find out what their past behavior looked like It may have gotten worse or it may be better.

It may look bad to you, right? Now if it's murder, it doesn't matter how many people they're murdering now, they should stop it immediately

But but if it's drinking or drug use or you know pornography

What it whatever it is that you're dealing with where are they now versus where they were six months a year ago?

Are we seeing a progress where the behavior is diminishing or increasing and that should let you know

How much help they really need? I mean sometimes they need inpatient treatment

Or maybe they are able to keep working on their own. Let me throw this out and maybe you could respond to this

I find with with counseling people one of the you're talking about the past one of the questions I typically ask especially people who have a drug and alcohol background

Of addiction is to ask when they started those things because I find that their problem -solving skills

Stopped at whatever age they started giving into the addiction I find that that ends up being where I have to go back to that age and start from there

Do you yeah, that's always what I call that social stunted socially stunted most people

When they became a drug or a drug addict or an alcoholic that tends to be the age in which they are emotionally

So you will deal with someone at an emotional level That's 30 years old there an actuality their behaviors that of a 15 year old

That's why you're having a tough time Dealing with them on an adult level is that you have to help them emotionally grow up a lot of the people

I grew up with they have very little adult skills. So we spent a lot of time believe it or not

I spent a lot of time talking about you need to get a checking account. You need to get life insurance

You need to get health insurance You know, you need to understand that you need to go to work every day not just when you feel like it

And so these aren't just Millennials. No These are these are some people in their 40s and 50s,

I mean so Yeah, socially I call I call it social that I don't know maybe there's probably more a better word

But I believe it's like socially stunted. I've seen that And you know to be honest like you probably came to that on your own

I came to realize that on then I've read up on it. It's a real phenomenon. Yeah So this question is that why you're 12

You might 12 be the right age for me or is it lower than that I'm looking for support there She's just smiling and laughing.

So what is it? I'll let you read into that what you want If you if you ever bored in prayer you want, you know, there's a wonderful girl back there you could pray for she puts up with insanity a

Husband that doesn't sleep. Yeah. Okay, so it says suffering equals shame I have found that when feelings of shame are upon me

I am much more likely to indulge in quote less than unquote escape behaviors fear equals shame

Correct and read the first part of that question again. I have found that when feelings of shame are upon me

I am much more likely to indulge in less than escape behaviors. Not sure what less than escape behaviors are well

If you're in Christ if you're a generate And dwelt by the Holy Spirit and there should not be any shame.

There is now therefore no Condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus So if you're in Christ, you're a new creature old things have passed away all things made new

You become a partaker of the divine nature. It doesn't mean that you're sinless but there should be an increasing pattern of Sanctification over time in your life, so I'm not sure exactly what's meant by shame

Now if you're talking about if you not if but when you sin you feel shame over that sin

Well, that's a good thing That's good That's one of the hallmarks of a believer

In fact is that we have what Paul describes as a godly sorrow over sin 2nd

Corinthians chapter 7 Godly sorrow is that sorrow over sin that's vertically oriented

When we grieve over our sin because we understand that our sin grieves God and we do not want to grieve him

We do not want to grieve his person Paul speaks of a worldly sorrow over sin a worldly sorrow leads to death

Paul says a worldly sorrow is nothing more than a guilty conscience Worldly sorrow is nothing more than what would happen to me if my sin were exposed

What would be the consequences to me? And so we try to cover up our sin not because we grieve over it

But because we don't want the consequences of it And so we cover up our sin But secretly if we could still get away with it and nobody would know about it

We would run right back to it. If that's the state of your heart, then you're you're apart from Christ You're not saved

You know It is good and it is right to warn people to flee from hell warn from them to flee from the wrath to come

But just as much as we should want to save you from hell We should want to save you from our sin and there's a lot of people who want to save you from hell

But they don't really want to save you from their sin If you want to save you from hell and not a savior from sin, then you have a savior from neither so I Don't know exactly what was behind the question or if I'm so I'm anyway

I did the best I could with with that but some people just hold on to stuff from their past that Christ has forgiven you for or things that weren't your fault to start with and we're ashamed of what was done to us

Again, you know what I say if you are a survivor of any kind of victimization

You have nothing to be ashamed of it wasn't your fault. It's totally the other person's fault I have a whole nother talk that I have on that.

But what I would say is if Everything reiterate everything Justin said if it's your sin that's that you're ashamed of but Jesus bore our shame on the cross and and that's what

I want to keep reiterating you if There is no condemnation. He bore our shame, you know, he became shame, you know in that sense

But shame is also a good thing. You know, I like for my daughters to have shame in the way they dress

Right. So this is you know, that's a positive thing. Does that have anything to do with what you do for a living that you possibly?

Yes And so But But but but again

Understand if you're feeling guilt for something that happened to you when you were 10 years old, you know Or 12 years old or the way, you know, your behavior is you don't have to feel that way, you know

I'd feel that way Let me ask you this because it's part of the question. It said suffering equal shame

So and then fear equals shame. So does suffering it does suffering always bring about shame?

Should it should it be something that we're? You know that fear would be shameful as well.

I Don't know what the person meant by suffering equals shame because that's just not true suffering does not

Necessarily equal shame. I mean all of us suffer that way. That's what we've been spending the weekend talking about so Suffering does not there's not a direct correlation there suffering equals shame

So, I don't know. I think there's something behind the question that I'm just not understanding from maybe I'm embarrassed because I can't deal with Suffering, you know in the way that others deal with it or I'm My anxiety and my fear

I suffer from anxiety and fear and maybe I shouldn't you know, that's that's another element to it well, let me ask you this as well as a follow -up is you know that there is becoming this new phenomenon where everyone sees

Everyone else's posts like on social media and they think everyone else's life is great mind stinks type of mentality where?

People are not posting. I mean even people to think well my life stinks because everyone else's posts are good They don't post there that my life stinks.

They post all the good things in their own life. So it's like this false That got a false of this facade we put up for the world

Is it that this facade that we're seeing in others? We think they got everything together when really everything's falling apart in my life and we don't see that it's falling apart in theirs

Well, how about I mean, we all have those friends who post too much information And I mean, it's

Frank every time you go somewhere yeah, no But now when he goes for sushi

One of the But we have a family member think about the people in your life who post what's really going on in their life

How do we treat them? How do we feel about them when the world can't believe they post something like that But if they were posting, you know, use your quote rainbows and you know

Sunshine lollipops and unicorns. Yes We we like our friends to post that kind of stuff, right?

We don't like it when they post me and my wife just had this terrible fight She threw me out of the house. I was like, why are you telling me that?

I don't want to know about that. I got my own problems All right, so I'm sure that if if Frank did not put this question in he made he asked

Brian to do it for him Where's Pastor Joe this has yeah, I don't know where you went to huh?

Yeah You don't want to answer it. He's turning 60. They're having a birthday party for him tonight.

He's in it He's good. I think he's got enough depression Yeah, he was like kind of snuck up on him, all right, so he

I could just I know this So I'm gonna ask this one of Justin. There's nothing to do it again. Who are the

Nephilim? Oh, I I Don't know now if you have the good traditional

Jewish answer to that I'll you know, we can agree if not and you side with Frank we have to throw you out now

Yeah, I've heard different different views and I'm not coming to your defense Frank I don't know what

Frank's position is It's not Andrews a flying demon babies Andrew believes in flying demon babies.

I'm just saying flying demon. He believes that Nephilim are the flying demon babies That's what Andrew believes.

I have never believed that We are gonna do a podcast one of these days with Frank on this

Genesis six and who are the Nephilim and you can see how this one's gonna go I I did want to if there was ever a time that I wanted to record a

Conversation that I had with Frank it was on who are the Nephilim because I was cracking up as trying to give answers

We disagree, but it was as it was hard to argue against him just because he made Can I can

I answer kind of a question tangentially related to that sure, okay just dealing with spiritual warfare in general

I would recommend a really good book to you entitled truth or territory a biblical approach to spiritual

Warfare truth or territory. It's written by my pastor Jim Osmond Osman truth or territory into this as minned right?

No, there's no Osman is he a Mormon? truth or territory

Truth or territory is he a Mormon? Does he sing really well? No, he doesn't know

Yeah, he's got a couple other books I will I will not publicly or privately admit to reading them, but I do recommend it, but yeah

It's very good book. He takes all of these common practices of supposed spiritual warfare like binding

Satan rebuking Satan breaking generational curses praying hedges of protection

Territorial spirit spiritual mapping all this kind of nonsense And he just breaks it apart biblically and shows that that is not what spiritual warfare is about You know all these people going around binding

Satan somebody sure keeps letting them back out You know, it's the flying demon babies in it

Andrew. Maybe Maybe you ought to go find the fellow who keeps letting him back out and bind him first So But anyway, it's it's it's really good book and as the title of the book implies truth or territory real spiritual warfare is not about Taking territory back from Satan.

It's a battle for truth. It's a battle for men's minds Real spiritual warfare happens when your pastor gets up and exposits

God's Word on Sunday morning. That's spiritual warfare So anyway, so it's an excellent book.

Yeah, Jim has three books out I guess he forgot to pronounce the

T at the end of my name. So I added D on the end of his And I did

I did interview him for my podcast and and that's why I He was asking me about whether I he was like you didn't read my books

Because I was busting on him a bit and and so now I've decided I will public I will not publicly admit to it

And so he's he wants me to write an endorsement for the next book. He's writing So I said well, I'm gonna write an endorsement saying

I haven't read this but All right. Last question. We have an address and this one's probably more one for you as a speaker and evangelist

How do you make money to live and provide for a family and then it says or what ways have you seen?

So I guess I guess for you would be more as a speaker and evangelist How do you make money for you your family and I guess

Frank you could answer the you know What other what other ways have you seen after he answers? Well, I promise people the more money they give to my ministry the more the bigger harvest they will receive and I'm just No my ministry

Has I guess kind of three ways of financial support? I'm I'm a member of my home church, but I'm not paid by my home church

My home church doesn't they support me in what I'm doing in that they agree with it, but they don't pay me anything

My ministry is supported financially three ways when I travel to a church and speak they'll either do a love offering or an honorarium of some kind, you know, and My standing policy is that I do not have a fee for preaching.

I don't even ask about that I just kind of trust the church or conference. Whatever whatever they want to do is fine

So I'm not one of these guys says I won't come and preach unless you guarantee me X number of dollars

I just whatever come to my church. I will I will of course I will So will you come will you come to his

Academy and train? Is it is it is a martial arts Academy? Oh, yeah, I'm really renowned for my martial arts skills

So, um, yeah, that's that's one thing but I don't have a set fee so whatever the church wants to do is fine

Then I do have there's a there's a handful of people that support my ministry on a monthly basis, you know, just My ministry is a 501 c3.

So Just as when you give money to your church, it's tax deductible same thing with my ministry

So I have some people that support it on a monthly basis and that's a huge huge part of it

And then sales of my resources And that's a that's the third now even with that Another standing policy

I have is is if anybody cannot afford my resources and they need them then that's fine

Help yourself. I give them away to people that cannot afford them. I don't ever want money to be a hindrance to anyone and So, uh, that's it.

I guess that's the short version. There's a fourth way There's a fourth way because sometimes say sometimes what

Justin does he tries to give away Materials and and it gets some people like me to be like no,

I'm gonna pay for the materials So if you really want to have some fun take out your phones No, this is a real website.

No, seriously. It's a real website. You want to see turn turn red go to Justin I win

Calm see another way that just I didn't write this question, but I'm gonna totally use it

You can donate for my bragging rights because he tried to give me DVDs And so I have tried to get thousands of people to donate to Justin's ministry and they put hashtag

Justin I win when they donate we actually created a whole page and we've had a battle You could see me at Shepcon last year winning

I if you look at the picture Frank will tell you it was not a proper rear naked choke that I had

Justin in the elbow wasn't facing dad We wouldn't have heard him, but then you'll see him choking me out that could have hurt

Looked serious. We haven't finished a tie, but there's a donation page There's actually a whole video that explains the whole backdrop and and I get we get people to donate to Justin This is the crazy ideas

I come up with you don't want to get into a back -and -forth with me because I'm gonna win I'm gonna get the bragging rights on this one.

I get everyone to donate to him So that's a fourth way That's that's a fourth way

Andrews very jealous. What about that lady? They left you the old well in Texas. Oh, you weren't supposed to say

No, that's a truth that's a true story by the way this minister got left in the oil in Texas Well, what in this minister?

Yeah So you're you're thinking a lady in Texas gave him some some mineral You don't sell prayer cloths

I gave that up Frank you've anything you want to add to that or No, I I will say that there are some of you that God's given the gift of generosity to and that You you can give more than you you have

You know a lot of times that you need and there are people out there that that do that You know that come across that do that I pray for the that the gift

That God gives me more than I need And and he has a lot of times so there there are many ministries that I donate to and I try to on a regular basis and If you're if you're you have the ability to give you know

I found if I could spend $25 a week on Starbucks. I could do that for ministries. Well, you should repent to the star

No, I'm not but anyway anyway, yeah

Yes, listen lady in front Duncan Well, we're done yeah,

I will say this, you know, seriously, you know They're the people often think

I mean struggling for example struggling fraternity for example is pretty much Funded for the most part by five people.

We have we have a lot of donors But you know, you know, we would prefer to have a whole lot more

Smaller donors than just a few bigger donors You know, we have we have one donor that just the business didn't turn so well and had to cut back

You know a thousand dollars a month that takes a huge hit in the budget, you know But if you have a lot of people giving five dollars a month, not so bad

And actually I guess I guess I should I forgot to mention what we are what we are offering For our donors is

I was supposed to mention it last night Well, if you if you do some we gave you out those blue cards

Those blue sheets for striving fraternity if you become a monthly donor. We're striving fraternity

If you give is as much as two dollars, which is still less than his Starbucks coffee

Okay, two dollars a month. We'll send you a copy of the book. What do we believe?

Okay after about three months we send those out if you give five dollars a month Which is still less than one cup of his

Starbucks coffee. We'll send you both these books. What do they believe? What do we believe? $10 donations will get you those two books plus on the origin of kinds a $20 donation gets you those three books plus sharing the good news with Mormons That's what we're giving away for people who donate monthly because we actually want to encourage more smaller donors

And what we're doing for people who give $25 a month is this is an insane idea that I have

I don't have lots of ideas Do I Colleen Colleen has a whole file called Andrews ideas because she can't keep up with my insanity

But the she was actually gonna rename that Colleen's ideas and just put it that way she could say that I stole her ideas

But the but if for $25 a month We're gonna actually do is we're gonna try to find a missionary because we've calculated that $25 a month

Would be what we need for one year would cover a missionary for buying them equipment and paying for the hosting for them to do

A podcast so instead of having a them send an email to their church, which barely anyone ever reads those things

Anyway, okay Have them come to the church and say check out the podcast and they can keep the church the supporting church up -to -date through a medium that they most people already are listening to and So that's what we're looking to do with $25 a month donations.

So it's kind of strange if you give us $25 We're gonna look for someone to give it away to I don't have a really good business model.

Do I? The other board member so I'll leave it to you guys if you have any closing comments you want to make before we close out the conference not about Nephilim I don't guess so other than I've really enjoyed being with y 'all these past couple days.

Thank you very very much I hope that this has been encouraging for you and edifying Thank you very much for coming.

If I can be of help to you in any way, please contact me Let me know I've got newsletters out there I think we still have a few grab one of those all my contact information is there

So if you email me and I don't get back with you in a couple of days email me again It's okay.

You're not gonna bother me. I just sometimes get swamped in them Traveling it's sometimes hard to keep up. So if I if you don't hear back from me shoot me another email and be fine

And I and I will Thank you. A Man is so many words.

Yeah, the way to get hold of Justin is Justin I win calm Hey, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of that You've gotten some good donations from that I'll remind you that we do have because I forgot to move the living orders flash drives five movies

I forget how many like a hundred hours of Sermons from from the guys at living waters and some of their videos

So there's that out there also also on the back chair somewhere back

There were my beautiful bride is sitting are the notes from Pastor Joe if you want to grab those and you're gonna say something

Yeah, just you Andrew saying flash drive reminded me my flash drives over there And again,

I'm not trying to sell you anything if money's but I just grab you one. It's fine You don't even have to ask me but Something else on that flash drive that may be of interest to some of you

I've got a number of series on that flash drive But one of them is I called witnessing to the witnesses

I had about a two and a half hour witnessing encounter with two Jehovah's Witnesses We sat down at a table as a husband and wife team.

The husband was an elder quote -unquote elder It is quote -unquote church But for two and a half hours you hear me witness to these

Jehovah's Witnesses and you hear all their arguments and you'll hear me answer Scripture so it's really kind of interesting

So if you'll listen to that next time a JW wraps on your door, you'll be ready for him

So, um, anyway, they don't come to my door anymore. Yeah, I don't know either it might have some of the

Jehovah's Witnesses used to come to my door moved into to Jackson down here and They I found out they used to come to my door every every week

They came through my neighborhood because one of my neighbors was his sister was Jehovah's Witness in the first week They came when I was there.

I was so excited because my last house was marked So I got oh my god out my New World Translation I was all excited talking to them next week when

I saw him they went for my one neighbors and just get my house I was so bummed. I grabbed a

New World Translation. I ran up to a neighbor's house I stood behind the Jehovah's Witnesses and they just looked at me and Pete opens door.

Hey Pete. I'm neighbor moved in next door They're gonna lie to you about the Bible. I'm gonna correct it. Go ahead guys And they just looked at me and they just left the door and I went bye

Pete and they went to the neighbors and they're Going to gyms and they're like, what are you doing? I'm just gonna follow you I'm not letting you lie to my neighbors.

They avoided my whole street my neighbors loved me for a little while until Christmas when I gave them all gospel tracts and a

CD message of the gospel in a book and But but at least

Jehovah's Witnesses they don't come by I actually I actually write to the Mormons and ask them to send a missionary

I do I've been to Utah several times like can we have a missionary comes yes, please? I really want to talk to someone and they don't come

So Justin can can Andrew tell the telephone story from the airport? Oh, yeah, that's but yeah

Okay. Okay. This gives you a little bit of the character of Justin Peters I don't know if you even listened to me talk with Chris Horns and I told

I told the Sun Yeah, I didn't give all the details but so Justin Peters was going through TSA and any of you had that fun experience?

It's a little bit harder when you're in a scooter So it takes a little bit longer for things, you know to get your stuff

So by the time he got his stuff someone had taken his phone. Yeah his cell phone. They stole it now.

He got it back Okay you know his wife was like figuring out where it was and they were able to so they got it back and Justin was very very upset that they didn't get the guy now

You're thinking he was upset because he wanted the guy to maybe get arrested get caught No Justin was upset because he didn't get an opportunity to share the gospel with him and and just because this was like shortly after that You called me and he's like he goes he goes he's like I wanted to I would like soon as he said where gate

They thought he was that I rushed over there because I wanted to share the gospel and I'm thinking okay What am I gonna say? Like, you know, have you ever told a lie?

Yes. Would that make you a liar? Have you ever stolen anything? What am I saying? Of course you have How many of us would be more concerned with sharing the gospel with a guy that just stole our phone and Returned it like rather than just going.

Hey get him locked up, but that's Justin. Well, yeah I mean, I thought it would be what a you know

The ball is sitting on the tee waiting to be knocked out of the park. What a great opportunity To share the gospel with someone but yeah,

I never could drag him down. I was in Miami Airport So it's better than the dog story. Um, we're not gonna tell that one

Or why Matt slick calls you Batman I gotta show you the picture about all right, he is he's spiritual

Batman All right So with we're gonna stick around for a little while in case you guys have follow -up stuff

I know that some of the ladies got some Q &A and in the ladies Break out there

But if you guys do have more questions, we're gonna do is just before you bombard Justin with questions

Give him a chance to get down to his throne of pride By the way, if you could just look at the look at the name on the chair

I've dubbed that the throne of pride. It says pride on his chair. I'm just saying

I mean he didn't put it there it's the manufacturer but So So, yeah,

I Did tell you the Q &A becomes

So, let me let me close in order of prayer Before you ask Justin any questions to give him a chance to get down to his his scooter there get a little bit set up and comfortable

Frank you can just attack up here feel free and We'll have we're gonna keep some materials there

We didn't do any I know Denise you we're gonna give some giveaways. I forgot but There's they're having a sale at the at the

Jason Lyle table So check that out because you may not get those prices again And the prices that we have for our books where we have the bundles only are when we're at speaking events and conferences if you do if you are interested in having either

Frank or myself or Anthony speak at your church or at your You know at a conference you can let us know like Justin we have no speaking fee

Do me a favor just push that push his chair down so you can get up push him down. No the chair Frank you want to push

Justin Peters down tweet that out. I Said push that down not push him down the difference a word makes

Wow, you usually you can go to the jails to get in touch with Frank No, actually If you go to striving for eternity org

There is a contact page if you if you contact that if you direct the question to Frank that gets that will get forwarded over To Frank and then you know if he wants to share his personal information with you.

No no, but yeah, you can always get in touch with any one of us there and If if we could do anything to be a blessing to you your church

We don't have a speaking fee one of things I said yesterday was striving for attorneys. We actually target smaller churches to do our weekend seminars

We don't we I mean, we're not opposed to going to bigger churches it's just that the smaller churches are ones that are always struggling to have good teaching come into their church and So that's what our monthly supporters.

Let us do because we have monthly supporters We can go in and take a you know pay for our own travel to come into places

Justin and I are both headed to the Philippines in two months And The the arrangement with them is they they're taking care of everything for just and I once we land in the

Philippines Justin and I have to pay our own way to get there. There's a huge issue with new apostolic

Reformation Catholicism out there And that's where his ministry and striving fraternity that funds us to be able to do these things

And the tickets are in cheap there I think what we feel like is like almost 5 ,000 for a ticket or something like that 4 ,000

I think it was or maybe it was 5 ,000 for the two of us might have been 5 ,000 for the two of us.

Yeah, so So I mean those things cost and we just you know, both ministries are like mine in that it will absorb that cost

We don't care because the teaching is more important So if you have a small church you you want to have us come in have Justin come in we're willing

So let's close in order prayer Heavenly Father, we're grateful that you give us your word

First of all that will help us through times of suffering struggles Trials that we have something that's an absolute standard to put a firm foundation on because we know that its source is you who?

cannot lie who is good just right and holy and so we can we can look to your word as The ultimate way that we have objectively to look at in this world

We know we have what it teaches us what you did on the cross That's our ultimate salvation and they as we've heard this weekend.

That is what we rest in Ultimately to know this life that is just passing is nothing

But we have eternity with you not in heaven not with out sin flesh stained bodies without Bodies that have no more ailments but to be with you and Lord We also thank you because you give us your

Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit and dwells each and every one of us that knows you That illuminates and teaches us your word and applies it to our lives so that we can live through this life with all the struggles and sufferings and know that we have a

Firm foundation and a salvation with a true Savior Lord, we ask that you would be with Justin tomorrow as he's going to be preaching at Masters Church That you give him safe travels home also think for Frank as he leaves tomorrow morning

We also want to lift up Lord Colleen to you as she's going to be visiting some family in the area That there's some some issues going on and struggle that she'll that she has

We ask Lord that you will keep them safe and that you bring them home safely we're grateful

Lord for the body of Christ that we as Your children can gather here just the the conversation around the fellowship times the one -anothering that's been going on The encouragement and and the bearing of one another's burdens.

This is what the church is is about Lord May we not just leave here without remembering what we've learned

Taking it with us taking it back to our churches and seeking to implement so that we would be

More like you because we attended this this conference this weekend help us

Lord to be sanctified Even through our suffering we thank you for it in Christ's name.