Revelation 20: The Millennium

Reformed Rookie

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:01

Alright, so this morning we're going to be talking about eschatology, which is the study of last things, and in particular, the millennium.

00:20

So the millennium is a hotly debated topic amongst Christians, so hopefully this morning we'll just lend some clarity to that, not to the confusion, but to the passage and see where everything lies.

00:34

So if you want, you can open up your Bibles, I'm going to be reading out of Revelation chapter 20, verses actually it's 1 through 8, not 1 through 6.

00:45

Page number 666 in the Bibles, or 1000, depending on which version you have.

00:56

We haven't even started yet, and we started already. Alright. 2329.

01:03

Alright, so we're going to be reading Revelation chapter 20, and basically, as we read this passage,

01:10

I want you to just key in on what the Scriptures say about the millennium, specifically.

01:16

Because that's what we're going to go off, we're going to go off of what the Scripture says, and then compare other Scriptures to it to see if it confirms, if the position confirms or denies what

01:25

Revelation 20 says. Okay. So Revelation 20, verses 1 through 3. Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.

01:36

And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who was the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended.

01:51

After that, he must be released for a little while. So these are the first two mentions of that term, thousand years.

01:56

We're going to hear it a couple more times before we finish this. Revelation 20, verses 4 through 8.

02:03

Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those whom the authority to judge was committed.

02:09

Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshipped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.

02:20

They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.

02:28

This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection. Over such, the second death has no power.

02:35

But they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

02:41

And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth.

02:49

So here we have the only mention of this term, a thousand years. And it's repeated six times.

02:55

So in this verse, we're going to get to see what the millennium is, what it consists of, and when it actually happens.

03:02

So we're just going to do some observations now. So what is the nature and the timing of the thousand years?

03:10

The thousand years, what do we know about it based on what Revelation said? Well first, it's a thousand years.

03:17

The question we have to answer is, is it literal or is it figurative? And we're going to go through that.

03:24

Next we see that the kingdom is inaugurated and Satan is bound. That was clear in that verse.

03:31

Next we're going to see that Satan can't deceive the nations until those thousand years are ended.

03:37

Then he'll be released. So that's another fact that we learned. We also learned that the martyred saints are going to reign with Christ.

03:44

They will be priests. The saints of the first resurrection will reign with Christ.

03:51

And the rest will come to life at the end of the thousand years. So these are specific things that we can say definitively about Revelation chapter 20.

04:01

These are characteristics of what that passage taught us. So what are the views?

04:09

The first question is, when does it take place? So there's two questions about the millennium. When does it take place and what does it consist of?

04:16

And those are two separate questions. When does it take place? It all comes down to only two positions.

04:23

The two positions are based on Jesus's return. When does Jesus come back? Before the millennium or after millennium?

04:30

So basically the only two positions are post -millennium, Jesus comes back at the end of the millennium, or pre -millennialism,

04:38

Jesus comes back before the millennium. So our millennial and the post -millennial view are both united in the sense that Jesus comes back at the end of that thousand year period.

04:48

Whether it be figurative or literal, Jesus comes back at the end. Pre -millennialists believe it's before pre -millennium, he comes back at the beginning.

04:58

So as to the question of timing, when does the thousand years happen? There's only two positions, pre -millennial or post -millennial.

05:06

Now, as to the nature of what happens during the millennium, we have three positions.

05:12

What happens? Three positions. We have pre -millennial, amillennial, and post -millennial.

05:18

And we're going to go through each of those views, summing them up for the sake of time, and then we're going to go through and see a timeline and see which view holds water.

05:29

So the pre -millennial position, and I take a lot of this stuff from Greg Bonson's book, The Bright Hope of Post -Millennialism, and then

05:37

I'm also going to draw from Jay Adams, who does a great job in explaining these things. So pre -millennialism believes that Christ returns prior to the millennium.

05:45

And at his coming, this is the start of the kingdom of God. Jesus' return inaugurates the millennial kingdom after the church age.

05:56

So he comes before the millennium to start the millennium, and this is at the end of the church age, according to pre -millennialism.

06:04

At this time, Satan is going to be bound for a literal 1 ,000 years. Pre -millennialism holds to a literal understanding of that term.

06:14

The millennium is going to be a period of earthly blessing that will bring righteousness, peace, and prosperity to the world for a literal 1 ,000 years.

06:23

The millennium is defined as the period between the first resurrection of the saints and the second resurrection of everyone else, the rest of the people.

06:32

Revelation 20 says the rest, the just and the wicked for final judgment. So pre -millennialism is defined by when man is resurrected, the first resurrection and the second resurrection.

06:45

Both the first and the second resurrection are physical. These are physical resurrections from the dead, not spiritual.

06:52

There's a 1 ,000 -year gap between the first resurrection when Jesus returns and the second resurrection at the final judgment of the just and the unjust alike.

07:02

Any questions? A little bit more. The church age, which is the age of the church when

07:09

Jesus came back, he established the church on earth. The church age, according to pre -millennialism, is distinct from the millennium and prior to it.

07:19

We're going to have a chart that goes through this so you can see it better. So according to them, Revelation 20 would be a future event, it wouldn't be something that's happening now or happened.

07:29

It's a future event. Currently, a pre -millennialist would believe that we are in the church age, but we are not in the millennium.

07:38

It's future. It's far off, or maybe not far off. It's future. The preaching of the gospel throughout the world will be of little avail.

07:47

It's basically just a witness to the nations that Jesus was who he says he was. That gospel presentation, although people will come to life from hearing it, is not going to have long -lasting effects on the earth.

07:59

The world is going to grow worse and worse and eventually climax in what is known as the Great Tribulation, and there's a variety of pre -millennialism that calls itself dispensational pre -millennialism, and you'll see pre-, mid-, or post-, that's with regards to the tribulation.

08:17

We're going to get into that in a little bit, but I don't want to digress too far. Jesus will rule, return, and rule the millennium, resulting in a final judgment at the end.

08:27

So the two key points that we need to see for pre -millennialism is that the church age is not the millennium, the millennium is future, and the millennium breaks up the return of Christ and the final judgment.

08:41

So you have the church age, then Jesus comes back, that starts the millennium, the end of the millennium will be the resurrection of the just and the unjust alike.

08:51

At the first resurrection, at the first coming of Christ, there's going to be a resurrection of the saints who have been martyred, they come to life and rule and reign with Christ for that thousand years.

09:00

At the end of that thousand years, there's going to be a second resurrection where all previous believers that died during that millennium period and unbelievers that died from beginning of time until that period will be resurrected.

09:15

Now there's a difference between historic and dispensational pre -millennialism. If you're a dispensational pre -millennialist, you believe that before the period of the

09:25

Great Tribulation, the church is going to be raptured off the earth. So once Jesus comes back, this is called the

09:30

Great Tribulation, the church is taken out of the way. You're not going to have to worry about going through the tribulation with everyone else.

09:40

If you're a historic pre -millennialist, you believe that the church will go through that great period of tribulation and then

09:46

Jesus will return and raise the saints and there will be an earthly kingdom that he rules over until the final judgment of the wicked.

09:53

So within pre -millennialism, you have pre-, mid-, and post -tribulation, so the church will be taken out either before the tribulation, in the middle of the tribulation, or at the end of the tribulation.

10:05

It makes it a little bit more complicated. In summary, we have the church age, the tribulation, before, during, or after the saints, depending on your position,

10:18

Jesus returns, raises the dead, then an earthly period of prosperity called the millennium, and then the final judgment.

10:25

Confused yet? Alright, we're going to go through this easily, watch. Let's see.

10:31

Okay, so, Jesus comes back. That's him coming down. He sets up the church.

10:37

This is the church age. Now, according to pre -millennialists, we're in the church age right now.

10:43

They're waiting for the second coming of Christ. However, during this time, we're going to see tribulation, and things are going to get worse and worse and worse throughout the world.

10:53

We're not going to see an increase in righteousness, we're going to see a decrease, we're going to see an increase in immorality and trouble for the church.

11:01

But thankfully, Jesus comes back, right? And when he comes back, he begins the millennium, this thousand year period.

11:10

Now, if you're dispensational, the church is lifted off, you're gone.

11:15

You don't have to worry about this, okay? What is this period, this millennium, composed of?

11:24

How can it be categorized or described? First, that Satan is bound. Now, the binding of Satan is another issue for all people.

11:34

Not everyone agrees on what that means. My understanding of Satan being bound means that he can no longer deceive the nations.

11:41

So at the Tower of Babel, when all the nations were gathered together, okay, all the people were gathered together and tried to make a name for themselves and build a tower that reached to God, God scattered them and made, dispersed them, and gave them all different languages such that they became different nations.

11:58

Only one of those nations, God singled out, he created a nation called Israel and he revealed himself to Israel and said, you will be a light to the other nations, okay?

12:08

So God had Adam and Eve, we had the full, then the Tower of Babel, God dispersed them, he restarted with Israel, he reconstituted the nation and he says, this nation is going to be a light to the generation, to all the other nations.

12:23

Come the church, now the church is composed of every tribe, every tongue, every people, every nation.

12:31

So now the gospel goes out, not just to Israel, Israel received the promises and the temple and the worship and all those things that Paul talks about in Romans 9, now that goes out to the rest of the nations, to all the

12:44

Gentiles, so now that they all have revelation of God. Satan being bound means, according to me, okay, and several other people, that Satan can no longer stop the gospel from going out to these other nations, okay?

12:58

They are going to have a part and a place in the plan of salvation with God, not just Israel, okay?

13:05

So now, pre -millennials wouldn't agree with that. So Satan being bound is a descriptor of the millennium for them.

13:14

It's also a literal 1 ,000 years, it's not figurative. This is an actual time clock 1 ,000 year period that they're going to go through.

13:23

It's going to be a time of earthly prosperity and peace, there's going to be a physical resurrection of the saints who will rule and reign with Jesus at the beginning when he comes back.

13:34

The dead in Christ are going to rise, they're going to rule and reign with him for this 1 ,000 years. Now, if you're dispensational, this is going to be a time of great war, okay, against Israel.

13:44

He took the church out of the way, now he's going to deal with Israel for all the sins that they committed in the past and not being a light to the nations and crucifying the

13:52

Messiah. The millennium is going to end with the resurrection of the wicked, okay?

13:58

So you have the first resurrection of the saints, second resurrection of the wicked and the people who became believers during the millennium.

14:06

Satan is going to be loosed, he's going to be able to deceive the nations once again. Then it's going to be final judgment in the lake of fire, okay?

14:15

Now you've got to realize there's a gap between the resurrection of the saints and the resurrection of the wicked. That's what's going to characterize this view, very important.

14:24

Then we're going to enter the final state for all eternity and that's the end of the millennium for them.

14:29

Any questions as to the timing or the nature of their millennium?

14:37

Okay, good. Just a question, when you were saying that for Israel, war with Israel, were you saying that for the tribulation or were you saying that for the millennium?

14:49

The tribulation. Oh, okay. Yeah, the tribulation, right, good point. But a third of them are going to be destroyed and all that kind of stuff, okay.

15:00

Alright, so that's pre -millennialism. Now let's take a look at amillennialism. And the prefix ah means no or no millennium.

15:07

And it's unfortunate because it's not that amillennialists don't believe in a millennium, they do believe in a millennium, okay.

15:14

So the term amillennialism means no millennium but they don't believe in no millennium, they believe in the millennium now and that's what we're going to talk about, ah.

15:23

So they believe, and amillennialists would believe, that the millennium is now. It's concurrent with the church age.

15:30

So remember that little green bar? That's the millennium, that's the church age and the millennium at the same time.

15:38

We're in Revelation 20 right now, according to the amillennialists, okay. Christ returns to end the millennium, where the pre -millennialists believe

15:48

Jesus comes at the beginning, okay, and starts the millennium, amillennialists say no, we're in the millennium, when he comes back, that's the end, that'll terminate the millennium.

15:57

Same as the post -millennialists. So the post -millennialists and the amillennialists are identical when it comes to this particular understanding, yes.

16:07

Okay, I'm sorry. Scripturally, will we, is there a way to, how do these views come about, are they saying through certain scripture, are you going to be going over that?

16:18

We're going to be going over that, yeah, yeah, no worries, okay. The millennium is a long period of time, it's not a literal thousand years and again, we're going to go through these things just to see which views seem more plausible than others, what views, you know, how they differ, that kind of stuff.

16:36

So they believe in a long period of time, not a literal 1 ,000 years, because the book of Revelation, according to an amillennialist and a post -millennialist, is symbolic, according to the book itself.

16:47

It says these things are signified, right, they're signified, it's apocalyptic literature.

16:54

Okay, amillennialists believe that the general resurrection and judgment of all men happened at the end of the age, not one at the beginning and then one at the end, everything happens at the end of the age when

17:04

Jesus comes back. The millennium does not refer to a golden or semi -golden age on earth, and that would be something that a post -millennialist would hold to, that the church would grow and we would see material and spiritual blessings here on the earth, amillennialists wouldn't hold to that necessarily.

17:24

The amillennialist believes that it's a time, the millennium and church age is a time of blessing either in the intermediate state, which is now before we go to heaven or before we die, the

17:35

Christians who do die, their spirits will have gone into the presence of God in heaven, so that's a spiritual blessing, or it's referring to the spiritual triumphs and blessings enjoyed on the earth within the church right now.

17:47

So as we see people come to know the Lord and we see people to walk in righteousness and holiness, there's spiritual blessings associated with that, that's what the amillennialist holds.

17:56

Finally, the millennium is a period of blessing either in heaven or as a spiritual reality within the church for believers.

18:03

A couple more things and then we can move on. The millennium is a period between the first coming of Jesus and the second coming of Jesus.

18:12

So Jesus came already, according to the amillennialist, he established his church on earth, when he comes back, that's the second coming, that's it, it's over at that point.

18:21

So their position holds that the millennium is measured by the first coming and the second coming, where the premillennialist measures it by the first resurrection and the second resurrection.

18:33

Got it? Okay. The millennium started at Christ's first coming and ends at his second coming.

18:40

The millennial period will see a parallel development of both good and evil, however the world will not be conquered by the gospel nor subdued by Christ as king.

18:48

In other words, there will be blessings here on this earth, but Christ is not going to actually, in an earthly material sense, fulfill his plan here on earth.

18:59

When he comes back, that's when that begins and happens. The prophecies of prosperity that we find in the

19:06

Old Testament must be taken in a figurative way, referring to inner victories or heavenly victories, not things that pertain to flesh and blood matters or public matters.

19:15

Okay? So again, it's a spiritual reality that happens here on earth and there's going to be spiritual blessings, it's just not going to manifest itself in, let's say, governmental law, like the laws that we see in society.

19:28

It's not going to manifest itself that way. Okay. So this is what amillennialism looks like.

19:35

So Jesus comes back, begins the church age, then what happens?

19:42

Jesus leaves. Right? He ascends into heaven. And what begins at that point in time?

19:48

He ascends into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father, ruling and reigning until Christ, until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet.

19:58

This millennium is just a continuation of the church age and it's a long period of time.

20:04

Jesus is seated on the throne, he's ruling and reigning, there will be tribulation, you know, there's going to be victories and defeats and back and forth, and the tribulation's going to last through the whole period of time.

20:15

But Jesus is still on the throne, ruling and reigning. There'll be a time of tribulation here and there, okay?

20:21

We'll experience, again, spiritual blessings but not material blessings. Then this age is going to be characterized by Satan being bound, he's not going to be able to deceive the nations.

20:34

It's a figurative thousand years, so it's not a literal calendar period of time, it's a long period of time.

20:42

It's going to bring about spiritual prosperity and peace, and there's going to be a spiritual resurrection of the saints, us being born again, and here, for the amillennial position, when you're born again, you're seated in Christ, with Christ in the heavenly realms.

20:57

So you would be ruling and reigning right now if you're a born -again child of God. Then Jesus returns, and when

21:04

Jesus returns, that's the end. And then we're going to see a general resurrection of both the saints and the wicked.

21:12

The amillennialists would say, this is what happens on the last day. The last day is when the just and the unjust are raised and judged before God.

21:22

Satan is going to be loosed, so at this point in time, he will be loosed so that he could deceive the nations, should he choose to, and probably will.

21:31

There's a final judgment, and then the lake of fire. This will usher in, I'm sorry, there's no gap between the resurrection of the saints and the wicked on the last day.

21:40

This is the difference between amillennialism and premillennialism. Remember, premillennialism is characterized by, the timing is the resurrection, the first resurrection and the second resurrection.

21:53

Amillennialists determine the millennium by the first coming of Christ and the second coming of Christ. So on amillennialism, there's no gap between the resurrection of the saints and the wicked on the last day.

22:04

It all happens on the last day for the amillennialists. Make sense? Okay.

22:10

And then it ushers in the final state. Once this happens and Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the sheep are cast into the lake of fire.

22:18

I'm sorry, the sheep are brought into heaven, the goats are cast into the lake of fire forever and ever. We'll have to edit that one out, too.

22:28

You mentioned that Satan, when he's loose, he would have opportunity. During what period if that's the end?

22:36

It's not clear as to how long that's going to be. But one view, postmillennialism, we're going to see in a minute, allows for an apostasy.

22:47

So this, I'm not exactly sure how amillennialism deals with an apostasy at the end, but this is in general terms the way it looks.

22:57

Good? Yes, Steve? The only thing I would clarify, I know what you're saying, but I would be more careful.

23:05

The amillennialists still believe the gospel is being effective and God is conquering the hearts and minds and the wills of people of every tongue and tribe and nation with the power of the gospel.

23:16

They still hold to the gospel as going forth and being effectual and saving people of every nation.

23:22

Definitely. Absolutely. They don't believe the gospel has any efficacy. I know you didn't mean that, but that's why

23:29

I'm just clarifying. They still hold to the view that the gospel goes to all the nations and Christ is conquering and making people a part of his kingdom, but it doesn't all come to fulfillment until the second coming.

23:43

Right. There's not going to be a predominance of church on the earth, correct?

23:50

Not necessarily, yeah. I think you've got to make a distinction. Within amillennialism, you have pessimistic and optimistic amillennialists.

24:02

They don't always have the same view. You have some amillennialists who think that not much is going to be accomplished by the church, and then on the other hand, you have optimistic amillennialists whose view is very similar to the postmillennial view, not exactly the same.

24:19

So I think, yeah, that clarification. Yeah, good clarification. There are optimistic amillennialists and pessimistic amillennialists, and within that view, those are two acceptable categories of that particular view.

24:35

Okay? So for the most part, we're in agreement? Okay, great. So let's now go through to postmillennialism, and this is very similar to amillennialism.

24:45

Post, the prefix is post, it means after. So after the millennium, timing -wise, is when

24:51

Jesus comes back. So Jesus comes back at the end, and that will end the millennial period. Christ will return after the millennial.

24:59

The millennium is the church age, Revelation 20 now, same as amillennialism.

25:05

The millennium is a period of growth for the kingdom of God on earth, as would be spiritually for amillennialism.

25:14

I think postmillennialism sees that it's going to manifest itself also in earthly blessings, such that the laws of the governments are going to be affected by the church's witness to them.

25:27

We used to have blue laws on the books, where you weren't allowed to buy alcohol before 12 o 'clock on a

25:32

Sunday. Why? Because the church was active and was an influence on the government. There was a point in time where abortion was illegal.

25:40

You weren't allowed to do that. Why? Because the church was living holy, righteous lives and affecting the government.

25:48

The kingdom of God will grow gradually on earth, visibly, publicly, and externally. It's not just going to be spiritual blessings.

25:56

It's going to equate and manifest into material blessings. The world will gradually be converted, and those who have died and gone to heaven, those who have died will go to heaven.

26:07

Those who are martyrs and those who are saints will be vindicated. Okay? Though they have gone to be with the

26:13

Lord, their labors will not have been in vain. And I don't mean to say that amillennialist labors aren't in vain.

26:19

However, the postmillennialist sees that it's not just spiritual blessings. It's going to manifest itself in earthly blessings, such that the kingdom of God is going to have influence over the nations.

26:29

For a postmillennialist, when Jesus says, Go disciple the nations, that's what the church is supposed to do.

26:35

Disciple the nations. So that the nations look or come into the kingdom of God.

26:40

They're still going to be separate, but the nations will be affected by the church, such that their laws will start to reflect.

26:48

Yeah? I have a question. So would you say that what distinguishes amillennialism from postmillennialism is that amill teaches that Christ's reign, he's reigning in the hearts of the elect, whereas postmill believes that he's reigning not only over the hearts of the elect, but over the cosmos?

27:12

I think an amillennialist would say that he's ruling and reigning over them, but it would be different for, obviously, a

27:22

Christian, because a Christian accepts that. The unbeliever doesn't. Whereas I think the postmillennial position would say that the church has such an effect on the unbelievers that it would be a common grace in God actually restraining their hearts to a greater extent than he would in an amillennial understanding.

27:42

Is that fair, Dave? No. Okay. I think it kind of ties back to what

27:47

Pastor Johnson said. Okay. That it could really depend on... Optimistic or pessimistic.

27:54

Optimistic. Got it. I think the distinction would be more over to what extent and what degree does the church impact the political, social, economic world?

28:09

Very close. Because we do believe... Well, let me put it this way. An optimistic amillennialist would still hold to the church is impacting the nations and is impacting governments.

28:23

But it would be more of a question of what degree and to what extent. Okay. And I think the distinction, too, would be as to what degree and to what extent, what steps does the church take in terms of trying to impact the governments and the nations?

28:38

These are kind of hair -splitting distinctions. They're very... I think in most part, though, many amillennialists are still in agreement with post -millennials in terms of the furtherance of the gospel and people of every tongue and tribe and nation coming to know

28:58

Christ and this having an impact on the world and being a blessing to the world.

29:03

It's still a blessing even to the unbeliever because the world is blessed by the presence of the church.

29:12

They are receiving the benefits of God being at peace with man here on this earth who is the son of Jesus Christ.

29:20

They still get a residual blessing from that. It's tribute...

29:26

But you see, you start questioning different instances and situations. I hold to the view that most amillennialists and post -millennialists are pretty much on the same page about some of these things.

29:36

It's more a question, I think, of extent or degree. Would you see, from an amillennial perspective, that tribulation is going to get worse rather than better?

29:46

I think, too, you can make a distinction between a peasantist and an optimist. I think most amillennialists will hold to the view that the church has been going through a tribulation for the entire church age, the entire millennium, with different seasons of it being worse or being less.

30:03

But we also see Christ conquering the nations through that, through that tribulation.

30:09

I was just going to say, when you were going over amillennialism, you discussed a period of apostasy.

30:17

And calling it a period of apostasy, I think, in some senses, presupposes the golden age that post -millennialism interprets.

30:25

I think amillennialists would see it as a period of persecution of the church.

30:33

So there would be no difference between apostasy and persecution? So Satan would be loosed to gather unbelievers to persecute the church.

30:43

There would be a great period of persecution for the church just before the second coming. Okay. My question is actually for Dave.

30:51

Dave, when you mentioned about the governmental aspect, is that what theonomy would find?

30:57

The view of theonomy? Oh, that great answer is clearly a theonomist.

31:03

But I would call him a hyper -theonomist. Yeah, yeah. But that's what you're talking about, though, when you're saying governmental, right?

31:10

Yeah. Like I said, to what extent and to what degree and how do we impact our governments?

31:16

Right, right. That's right. Okay. You would find some people who would take a very aggressive approach.

31:23

Yes. They would say, we should be establishing Christian governments, running

31:29

Christian nations. Right. Okay. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. No, yeah.

31:35

But is that necessarily what the scriptures are expecting us to do, or is it going to happen? I can keep an open mind to that.

31:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the only reason I ask that is because that's what I'm wondering. But I think that's what we're talking about. Yeah, to what extent and what degree.

31:47

Yeah, exactly. On top of the view, there will always be Christ's kingdom, the civil kingdom or the kingdoms of this world.

31:58

And I believe Christ made that distinction. He said, my kingdom is not of this world. But we do see there is a distinction between the government of the church and the government is still the church government, like I said.

32:13

And I agree. This is where I think you're coming from. There is a spiritual impact on the world.

32:20

And it does change the governance of the world. And we've seen that throughout church history. When we look at the Reformation, it didn't just turn the whole church upside down.

32:30

It didn't change the whole political and habits of the world around. But it did change governments.

32:35

And many governments did start to govern more in terms of biblical principles and truths, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

32:45

So the church does have this impact on the governments of this world. The question is, is it in that political, legislative?

32:53

Well, that's what I asked for. Yeah, yeah. All right. That's what I think, yeah. I think we should, all

32:59

I know is we should make every effort to impact the world with the gospel. Okay. Sorry.

33:05

I'll give it back to you. All right, one more and then we're going to move on. Sure, sure. Kind of what I was saying to what

33:10

Dave was saying, you asked about the period of tribulation. I think, and that comes to degrees of optimism versus pessimism, right?

33:18

Like, someone who's a little bit more on the pessimistic side would probably say that that period of persecution has already begun and is getting worse and worse and worse.

33:26

Right. And someone on the more optimistic side would say that that's a much more brief period of persecution at the end, right before the second coming.

33:34

There's degrees there of severity to that. We're going to hit that a little bit later on the post -mill view.

33:40

So we'll get past that. I don't want to go on too much, but I mean, the post -mill view uses that exactly the same way that the church has been founded in tribulation and there will be tribulation throughout the millennial age.

33:56

All right. I mean, Christ himself said it in his work that you will have tribulation. The kingdom of God is being taken by violent men and it's being taken by violence.

34:06

Not physical violence. So, again, the views are close.

34:12

And I think Dave said it best that it's more a question of extent than differences in the nature of the kingdom.

34:22

Excellent. Okay, let's continue with the post -mill view. It's a period of prosperity for the gospel with ups and downs, periods of persecution, immorality, and lawlessness.

34:31

Nevertheless, the overall pattern will be that of growth and success for the kingdom like the mustard seed. It's going to grow and become the largest of all the plants such that even the birds of the air are going to make their nests in that particular parable.

34:45

So Christ's return will synchronize with the general resurrection and the general judgment of all men at the very end of the millennium or the church age.

34:52

Same thing. So post -millennialism is going to look like this. Jesus comes. This is his first advent.

34:58

He starts the church and this is the church age. And then what happens? Jesus leaves.

35:04

He ascends into heaven just like amillennialism. He rules and reigns seated on the throne until he makes his enemies a foothold for his feet and there will be tribulation.

35:14

The millennium is going to be a long period of time. Okay, very similar to the amill position.

35:20

The only difference is from a post -millennial view you can see the church grows. Not that the church doesn't grow in a spiritual sense.

35:28

It's going to grow on earth and it's going to manifest itself in a different way than amillennialism.

35:36

This period is going to be characterized by Satan being bound. He's not going to be able to deceive the nations anymore.

35:42

I just want to make a point to this because so many people they don't when they hear amillennial or a post -millennial view they say well look at what's going on in the world today.

35:51

How could Satan possibly be bound when we see all the stuff that's happening? Satan being bound doesn't mean that he's not active.

36:00

He's still active here on this earth. The scriptures specifically say there's something specifically that he's bound from.

36:07

Deceiving the nations. The gospel is going to go to all the nations. All the elect are going to be saved.

36:14

People from every tribe every tongue every people and every nation are going to come to know Jesus. It's not just for Israel.

36:21

All of the world is going to get to experience the rule and reign of Christ. And Jesus says

36:27

I'm near you. I'm as close as you saying Lord save me.

36:33

So Jesus the kingdom is everywhere. Alright. Next it's a figurative thousand years for the post -millennialist.

36:41

It's not a literal one thousand years. There's going to be spiritual and earthly prosperity and peace.

36:47

We're going to see it manifest itself maybe in governments and laws that type of stuff. There's a spiritual first resurrection of the saints again same as Amel when we're born again and we rule and reign with Christ right now.

37:02

Then the church grows into the largest mountain that's Daniel chapter 2 35. The church is going to continue to grow grow grow like again like the mustard seed parable.

37:14

Then Jesus returns and this ends the millennium. Okay. There's going to be the resurrection of the saints and the wicked.

37:21

This is the general resurrection of all the dead. Satan's loosed and there's apostasy and I'm going to explain that in a second.

37:29

There's the final judgment the lake of fire. There's no gap again between the resurrections of the saints and the wicked on the last day.

37:38

That's the common one of the common points between Amel and post -mill. That differs from pre -millennialism.

37:44

Remember pre -millennialism is defined by the resurrection of the saints the first resurrection and the second resurrection whereas Amel and post -mill is defined by the first coming of Christ and the second coming of Christ.

37:56

One is Jesus centered. Alright then we usher in the final state.

38:03

Now the thing with post -millennialism and this apostasy okay because the church grows into the largest mountain okay the large church they're able to have an apostasy.

38:13

Now apostasy I think apostasy is different than persecution. It's the word apostasy okay and it means a standing away from or a pulling away from what you originally stood on.

38:27

The only reason I know this is because we're going through Jude and he's able to make us stand at the end.

38:32

We're gonna stand before God. The word apostasy is that same word histemi okay prefixed by apo to stand away from.

38:41

So you're not gonna stand you're gonna pull away from what you previously held. The way in Jude they apostatize apostatize okay they held a particular belief and then they walk away from it.

38:54

With post -millennialism it's gonna see that the church is big but they're not necessarily all believers okay we see that even in the church today church is big big churches not all of them are believers and when persecution comes like I believe it will when

39:09

Satan is loose a lot are gonna fall away. Post -millennialism as a view would be able to substantiate that.

39:17

The only way you can have a great apostasy is if you have a great big church and that's in 2 Thessalonians 3 it says let no one in any way deceive you for it will not come unless the apostasy or the word rebellion comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed the son of destruction and again it's apostasy how can you have a great apostasy if the church isn't large okay so that would be a characteristic of post -millennialism.

39:42

Now that's just the three views now we're gonna go through Can I just ask one question?

39:47

You sure can so with post -millennialism you're saying the church is gonna grow physically and spiritually and spiritually with our millennialism it's spiritual depending on if you're optimistic or pessimistic right?

40:08

I mean yes I don't wanna throw a monkey wrench into this you will just to be fair and present the views actually there are post -millennialists from history especially and today who do believe that there will be a literal thousand year golden age okay right the general consensus of post -millennialists today doesn't hold to that right but that was that was actually classical post -millennialism you know deal with Jonathan Edwards and those type of people that was an older view an older view yes

40:47

I don't know if anybody was writing today post -millennialist in the literal thousand years

40:53

I agree yep okay so let's I was just gonna say you're right to make this distinction between apostasy and persecution but we do need to look through church history and see that when there have been seasons of persecution that has led to apostasy true and for example the book of Hebrews this is what's being warned about even though you're being persecuted stay true yes don't apostatize stay firm don't walk away from the church absolutely you're right they're two separate concepts but they can go hand in hand definitely listen if there's persecution there's gonna be apostasy right you're right all right all right so let's look at what

41:34

Revelation says okay about the nature and timing okay and now that we've seen the views let's see what what it says we know that it's a thousand years we're gonna look at if it's literal or figurative we know that the kingdom is inaugurated and Satan's bound that he he won't deceive the saints until the thousand years are over the martyred saints are gonna reign with Christ they're gonna be resurrected okay and then the rest are gonna come to life at the end at the thousand years okay so let's see how long is it is it literal or is it figurative

42:08

Deuteronomy 7 9 says God who keeps keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations is that literal like to the thousand and first generation

42:20

God's not gonna keep his covenant okay you can look at this word thousand in the Old Testament we're gonna go through several verses and you can you can say that it's literal but you can also say that it's figurative like if I was gonna if I was to stand up here and say listen

42:34

Monday I'm going on a diet most of you would look at me and say you said that a thousand times right we use that term thousand to mean a long period of time and so so does the

42:47

Bible I believe King Solomon used Solomon used to offer a thousand burnt offerings on the altar was it exactly one thousand specifically no it's a lot of offerings

42:58

Psalm 50 for every beast of the forest is mine the cattle on a thousand hills Jesus doesn't own the cattle on a thousand and one hills a thousand and two hills just a thousand this is figurative it's very technical for a thousand years in your sight but as yesterday when it's past or as a watch in the night so what if it's two days three days is that two thousand years three thousand years in his sight see this here he remembers his covenant forever the word that he commanded for a thousand generations is it only a thousand generations or is this just describing a long period of time 2

43:37

Peter 3 8 but do not overlook this one fact beloved that with the Lord one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is one day so is two days two thousand years in God's sight is three days three thousand years in God's sight no

43:50

I think you can look at this and say here's a good chance especially given the nature of the literature and revelations apocalyptic literature it could very well be figurative symbolic of something not literally one thousand years okay so as far as I can see this can be considered figurative

44:09

I mean there's going to be people who argue against that but I don't think you can exclude the fact that this could be figurative so now let's let's move on let's see what else we can figure out is the kingdom now this is in Acts chapter 2 and this is

44:24

Peter speaking he says this man meaning Jesus delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put him to death but God raised him up again putting an end to the agony of death since it was impossible for him to be held in its power brothers

44:39

I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried and his tomb is with us to this day being therefore a prophet and knowing that God had sworn with him an oath that he would set one of his descendants on the throne you can find this in Psalm 130 to 11 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the

44:58

Christ that he was not abandoned to Hades nor did his flesh seek corruption that means

45:03

Jesus is a physically alive human being seated on David's throne okay this would tend lead people to believe that Jesus is king right now and his kingdom is active being that he is a physical being and seated on the throne we're going to see this a little bit further

45:25

Peter this Jesus God raised up of that we are all witnesses being therefore exalted to the right hand of God and having received from the

45:33

Father the promise of the Holy Spirit he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing for David did not ascend into the heavens but he himself says the

45:42

Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both

45:51

Lord and Christ this Jesus whom you crucified is there any question that Jesus is

45:57

Lord now some people are waiting for him to come back to establish his kingdom he's seated on the throne now

46:05

Peter implies in the resurrection of Christ that the promise to David is being fulfilled has been fulfilled

46:14

Matthew 28 18 and Jesus came to him and said all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me 1

46:21

Corinthians 15 for he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet the last enemy to be destroyed is death so when he comes back we should expect that death be destroyed but that's not the case

46:34

I would see this as being Jesus is seated on the throne his kingdom has begun this is the promise fulfilled to David then we got a bunch of scriptures ready?

46:43

Matthew 10 7 and proclaim as you go the kingdom of heaven is at hand Matthew 3 2 repent the kingdom of heaven is at hand

46:51

Matthew 4 17 from that time Jesus began to preach saying repent the kingdom of God is at hand

46:56

Mark 1 15 the time is fulfilled the kingdom of God is at hand Luke 21 31 when you see these things taking place the kingdom of God is near Luke 10 9 say to them the kingdom of God has come near to you 10 11 know this that the kingdom of God has come near and then

47:10

Revelation 1 the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him to show his servants the things that must soon take place for the time is near if Jesus isn't ruling and reigning as king right now somebody should tell him because he believes he is the scriptures tell us that he is okay?

47:31

was Satan bound during this period of time? so we can establish the fact that Jesus said the kingdom of God is now

47:37

Matthew, Luke, Mark the kingdom of God is at hand was Satan bound during this time?

47:42

because if Satan is bound that means the kingdom of God has come Matthew 12 28 if it is by the spirit of God that I cast out demons then the kingdom of God has come upon you did

47:54

Jesus bind up did Jesus cast out demons? yes then the kingdom of God has come upon you what does he say right after this?

48:01

or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods unless he first binds up the strong man then he may indeed plunder his house so he casts out demons and then he says the only reason

48:13

I'm able to do this is because I first bound the strong man that's

48:19

Satan he's bound now not in the future if Satan's not bound somebody should tell

48:26

Jesus 2 Thessalonians 2 and then the man of lawlessness is revealed the son of destruction and you know what is restraining or binding him now so that he may be revealed in time so who's restraining the strong man?

48:44

Colossians 2 15 he, Jesus disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame by triumphing over them in him

48:52

John 12 31 now is the judgment of this world now will the ruler of this world be cast out

48:59

Jesus is no longer in the heavenlies in the court bringing accusations against God's people

49:08

Romans will tell us who can make a charge against those whom God has chosen he can't bring a charge against us the verdict has been declared

49:14

Jesus paid the price for our sins 1 John 3 8 the reason the son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil did he?

49:23

or it should say the reason the son of God will reappear is to destroy the works of the devil no he came he is destroying the works of the devil

49:32

John 16 11 concerning judgment because the ruler of this world is judged already not to be judged he's judged already he's been bound the kingdom of God has come upon us

49:45

Jesus casts out demons he's bound the strong man the kingdom of God has come upon us so what can we conclude?

49:54

a thousand years good chance it's figurative the kingdom is inaugurated Satan's bound alright now can he deceive the nations?

50:02

let's see what the scriptures say Revelation 5 9 and they sang a new song were there you to take the scroll and open it's seals for you were slain and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe every language every people and every nation again this doesn't mean that Satan doesn't work here on the earth it means that he cannot deceive the nations such that they don't know the plan of God okay

50:27

Israel was the chosen nation and they were given the patriarchs they were given the temple worship they were given the covenants they were given the law they were given all these things now all these things are now given to the nations also and the church becomes the vehicle by which

50:42

God brings that to all the nations such that they cannot be they can deny it but they can't be deceived they do know yes right there's coming there's coming a time when he's worshipped everywhere yeah

51:04

Dave I think some of the other confusion too is is everyone wants to be

51:09

Cliff Wilson and say the devil made me do it yes because the reality is the scriptures tell us our hearts are already deceived and of ourselves so even though we see periods or seasons of sin what we would say people are deceived we can't sit there and say it's not because of their own self -deception don't blame everything on the devil right simple man harms his heart against God simple man suppresses the truth exchanges the truth for a lie that's what simple man does on his own yes and I think the other factor that has to come into play with understanding these verses is is we sometimes become a little too human centric we think everything in God's creation is about us

51:51

I know God's also dealing in the heavenly realm that's right you know Zatan and his followers they are heavenly creatures who

52:00

God is dealing with and there's a juxtaposition there between God dealing with the heavenly realm and dealing with the earthly realm yes

52:10

I believe he's working in all those things sure to the point when Christ does return and then everyone in the heavenly realm has the earthly realm everyone will bow down before him yes and confess him as Lord but this is what

52:25

I'm trying to say don't put this whole thing on Satan and say oh it's

52:32

Satan making people do all these simple wicked things yes the two greatest simple man is doing this on his own yes the two greatest deceptions are that there's a demon under every rock and it's all

52:42

Satan's fault or Satan has absolutely nothing to do with this world and he's bound up and gone and now that you have the middle position where he's he can no longer deceive the nations and he is active you know on top of our sinful hearts it's a recipe for disaster yes

53:00

I just want to say a perfect example that even the pastor has said this in the past is oh

53:06

I have a bad temper because I'm Italian or I'm Spanish or I drink because I'm this thing or I'm this because I'm always looking for a reason like it's not your fault look in the mirror yes it is you it is a choice ok let's keep moving good point

53:21

Ephesians 3 8 to me though I'm the very least of all the saints to grace that was given me to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ and to bring to light to for everyone what is the plain mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places ok so now the the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places know that this is not just about Israel this is about all nations ok and all the nations are going to hear the gospel and those whom

53:49

God chose in Christ before the foundation of the earth are going to be brought to life and be part of God's kingdom ok

53:57

Matthew 24 24 for false Christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders so as to lead astray if possible the elect we know the elect are not going to be deceived to the point of apostasy they're eventually going to come back to God they're not going to be ultimately deceived they're not going to be deceived for all eternity

54:15

God's children are God's children because he chose them to be Romans 8 .33

54:20

who shall bring a charge against God's elect ok one of the things that happened to Satan when he was cast down he lost his prosecutorial role he's no longer the prosecutor of God's people he cannot bring a charge against those whom

54:33

God has chosen why because Jesus Christ stood in their place and bore their his wrath upon himself for their sins so any charge that the devil makes you point to Jesus he paid for it doesn't matter he paid for it ok let's move on so the thousand years good chance it's figurative the kingdom is inaugurated and Satan is bound and he can't deceive the nations until the thousand years are ended ok so right now we see the gospel going out to people who can understand it they're not deceived until the end of the millennium ok well let me just bring that back real quick because now we're going to talk about all the saints martyred and reigning with Christ and will they be priests when will that happen will that happen when

55:19

Jesus comes back or is that happening now the first resurrection and I believe that this is a spiritual resurrection it's prophesied in the book of Ezekiel 37 and you shall know that I am the

55:30

Lord when I open your graves and raise you from your graves O people and I will put my spirit within you and you shall live and I will place in your own land and you will know that I am the

55:39

Lord I have spoken and will do what declares the Lord now when is this talking about a physical resurrection or a spiritual resurrection you can answer you've been talking all morning come on is this a physical resurrection or a spiritual resurrection yes they say it's a spiritual one right because Ezekiel is foretelling the coming of Christ and the work of his

56:07

Holy Spirit right Christ's atoning work and reconciling God's people is to elect to him

56:14

God now pours out his Holy Spirit and raises them up spiritually once dead in your sins but now you're made alive again in Christ yep we're going to get to that one so I would say this is a spiritual resurrection this isn't a physical resurrection speak to these bones and live yes

56:28

Pastor yes and no yes and no okay alright I just want to hear the yes part right now no

56:35

I agree with you this talk about our spiritual resurrection because we are partakers of the physical resurrection of Christ right and we will all be raised the question is when are we going to be raised physically are we going to be raised physically when when at the first coming of Christ the second coming of Christ so yes there's an aspect to this that is is physical let's let's talk about what's happening in the

57:04

New Testament John 5 25 truly I say to you an hour is now coming and now is here when the dead will hear the voice of the

57:10

Son of God and those who hear will live is that a physical resurrection or a spiritual resurrection spiritual

57:18

Ephesians 1 and you were dead in your trespasses and sins even when we were dead in our trespasses

57:23

He made us alive together with Christ by grace you've been saved and raised us up with Him seated with Him in the heavenly places if you're seated with Christ in the heavenly places are you ruling and reigning with Him yeah this is a spiritual resurrection not a physical one the first time around Revelation 5 10 and you've been made them a kingdom of what priests to our

57:47

God and they shall reign on the earth 1 Peter 2 5 you yourselves are like living stones being built up into a spiritual house spiritual house to be what a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God so the

58:01

Revelation Revelation 20 says the millennium is going to have us ruling and reigning and be priests to our

58:08

God did that happen in the New Testament already yes okay the

58:15

Bible teaches us that those who belong to the Lord Jesus Christ have undergone a resurrection experience so those who belong to Jesus have been spiritually raised from the dead already

58:24

John 5 24 Jesus says truly truly I say to you he who hears my word and believes in Him who sent me has eternal life and does not come into judgment but has passed out of death unto life so we're no longer dead we live and we've been raised from the dead spiritually truly truly

58:41

I say to you an hour is coming and now is when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live this is what we know as being born again or born from above this is a spiritual resurrection not a physical one so we can say that we are reigning with Christ because we're seated in the heavenly realms and we are priests we've been raised spiritually from the dead with Christ we will be raised physically at the general resurrection okay so the first was spiritually then we have a physical resurrection when will that happen in John 6 39 we read this is the will of Him who sent me that of all that He has given me

59:23

I lose nothing but raise it up on the last day for this is the will of my Father that everyone who beholds the

59:29

Son and believes in Him will have eternal life and I will myself raise them up on the last day no one can come to me unless the

59:37

Father who sent me draws them and I will raise them up on the last day the last day or a thousand years before the last day that's the last day of madness that's the last day of madness right so when will

59:51

Jesus raise those who are believers in Him when will He raise up the saints He will raise them up as the pre -millennials will

59:57

He raise them up as the pre -millennials tells us a thousand years before the last day of earthly history that creates a problem

01:00:03

Jesus does not separate the resurrection of the saints by a thousand years from the resurrection of the wicked and the last day of judgment

01:00:11

Jesus says that those who belong to Him will be raised up and that will be on the last day okay we read that verse

01:00:20

I don't want to read it again in verses chapter 5 of John verses 20 and 29

01:00:26

Jesus speaks speaks of a different kind of resurrection after the spiritual resurrection He says do not marvel at this for an hour is coming first He says it's now that the dead will be raised in Christ but then an hour is coming which all who are in the tombs will hear

01:00:41

His voice and come forth those who did good deeds to a resurrection of life those are obviously saints and then those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment those are unbelievers so on the last day there's an hour coming where He's going to raise the just and the unjust alike okay so there's going to be you have the spiritual resurrection first and then the physical resurrection

01:01:07

John 11 23 Jesus said to her your brother will rise again Martha said I know he'll rise again in the resurrection on the last day not a thousand years before the last day yes

01:01:18

I was going to point out here even by Martha's words there even under the old covenant

01:01:25

Jewish people were aware quote unquote the last day right the day of resurrection where the living and the dead would be judged so that concept is even there under the old covenant so when

01:01:38

Christ is using these words last day the day of judgment this Jewish audience knew exactly what

01:01:44

He was talking about He knew that there is coming a resurrection where the living and the dead believers and unbelievers are raised up and they're judged by Christ yep excellent

01:01:54

Paul agrees Acts 24 15 having hope in God which these men themselves accept that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust as did

01:02:03

Daniel 12 2 many of those who sleep in the dust on the earth shall awake some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting content he's equating that at the same time he's not saying there's going to be a resurrection of the just and then a thousand years later a resurrection of the unbelievers both the righteous and the unrighteous are raised together okay so so based on that we can say that the saints of the first resurrection are reigning with Christ the rest of the saints will come to life at the end on the last day okay so I know we're running long on time here okay so second coming right is it once or twice

01:02:42

Matthew 25 says when the son of man comes in his glory and all the angels with him then he will sit on the glorious throne before him were gathered all the nations and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats he will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left for premillennialism to be true there has to be two second comings one at the beginning of the millennium and then another one at the end he comes at the beginning he raises up the dead in Christ and then he comes again at the end and raises both the just and the unjust alike so in premillennialism not only do you have two physical resurrections you have two comings of Christ that's a problem the general resurrection of all people is not separated by this thousand year period called the millennium okay

01:03:29

I'm going to skip through this real quick because this is you're going to eventually post this on your site right

01:03:37

I will so here's here's two passages of scripture and this I I used with Jay Adams book the time is at hand he says at the end of the church age this is is 2nd

01:03:48

Thessalonians chapter 2 at the end of the church age there's a rebellion a wicked one is revealed the man of sin a battle is fought

01:03:54

Armageddon fire falls down from heaven and consumes the enemy a resurrection occurs and judgment takes place all this according to the premillennialist occurs at the end of the

01:04:04

New Testament period prior to the millennium however what happens at the close of the millennium in Revelation chapter 20 all six points in 2nd

01:04:16

Thessalonians are repeated right doesn't Revelation 20 describe the rebellion of the wicked one the battle the fire from heaven a resurrection and a judgment are they not all set forth and in the same order and all this

01:04:30

Revelation 20 says transpires at the end of the thousand years so this he called it diplopic vision they're seeing they're seeing they're seeing double they want to see it at the beginning of the millennium and the end of the millennium where this clearly says it's at the end yeah

01:04:47

John I have to ask I'm sorry so if this is clear in scripture how do they justify this

01:04:55

I'm the reason I'm asking if I approach someone who believes this how you know and I'm I'm just somewhat every every every person that holds a view has some similarities in the way they defend it and differences

01:05:12

I don't know specifically how they would defend it they do have scriptures and they'll they'll go to them they misinterpret

01:05:18

Matthew chapter 24 they misinterpret the book of Revelation it's not apocalyptic literature it's future it's all these different things it's a it's a combination of all of them together so they would look at us and say how could you defend this

01:05:31

I mean we we obviously try to use scripture to to interpret scripture yes Dave I think it's just more of a question that many people in our modern evangelical church have simply just not been taught right from the post -millennial perspective exactly

01:05:45

I mean there was a time and I'm dating myself but every evangelical

01:05:50

Christian had a copy of the King James Bible and a copy of the New Testament this is how people were indoctrinated yep you know once I had my second born again experience when

01:06:02

I became a foreign then I realized oh there's another view right right so I think more of it is based on people have just not been taught yes and even then even when you are going to talk about these things you have to do it very lovingly and patiently because you're trying to reverse a lot of false understanding over a period of time right

01:06:22

I think it's more of a question of actually being taught what the scriptures actually teach they've heard a lot of things from the scriptures and a lot of them have taken out of context and a couple of teachers have noted that the dispensational pre -millennial version is exciting it's got all these you know great things happening and the antichrist comes and Jesus beats him and all this stuff this would seem boring to them and people are enticed by excitement and oh it ends up being like a plot to a movie versus you know the truth of it sometimes is plain and because you've been lured away with this other exciting view this kind of seems like hmm it's not as exciting you know unfortunately

01:07:06

I mean fortunately it's the scriptures and we can use the scriptures to interpret the scriptures I think tying into what you're saying

01:07:12

I think part of it is people don't want to go through any kind of struggle or strife in this world they want

01:07:18

Christ to rapture them out of this world and once again I think that's something that's a prejudice in their thinking sure that's an extremely valid point because when

01:07:28

I was back in my early 30's I was teaching a teen class and that whole aspect of we're leaving so what's the sense you know and that was prevalent throughout listen it appeals to your flesh to think that you know

01:07:44

I don't have to go through a tribulation this is the view it appeals to the flesh you know

01:07:50

I would love that for that to be true right but I don't want to say unfortunately because this is

01:07:55

God's perfect plan this is his word I mean this is the way he's laid things out okay so real quick we'll just wrap this up Matthew 13 says the harvest the resurrection is the end of the age and that reapers are angels just as the weeds are gathered and burned and the fire so will it be at the end of the age the son of man will send his angels and they will gather out of the kingdom all causes of sin and law breakers and throw them into the fiery furnace in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth the righteous will shine like the son of the kingdom and their father he who has ears let him hear in Matthew 13 47 again the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind when it was full men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted out the good containers but threw away the bad so will it be at the end of the age the angels will come and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth it's not that Jesus comes back raises the dead separates them a thousand years go by then he comes back again there's a physical resurrection and separates them again it's the same thing twice they just they just separate it by the thousand years thinking that it's literal okay all right so all right

01:09:07

Jesus this will really wrap it up I'm sorry Jesus is going to raise everyone on the last day both the righteous and the reprobate will be raised

01:09:15

John chapter 5 28 Daniel 12 2 when Jesus comes in all his glory all the nations will be before him when

01:09:22

Jesus comes from heaven with his mighty angels in a flaming fire he judges those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel at the end of the millennium fire comes down from heaven and consumes them the devil who deceived them is thrown into the lake of fire and so forth where the beast and the false prophet are they will be tormented day and night forever and ever there are not two physical resurrections and the general resurrection is of all people not separated by a thousand years okay

01:09:49

Revelation 20 we're in the millennium now any last questions?

01:09:56

yes I believe so no you don't you dig this okay yeah

01:10:15

I guess to be considered the great tribulation it would have to be in the past that would be preterite okay all right guys