The End of an Era - Open Phones

Opening Schedule Change and Final Saturday Program

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona, this is The Dividing Line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us, yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence.

Our host is Dr. James White, Director of Alpha Omega Ministries and an Elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation. If you'd like to talk with Dr. White, call now at 602 -973 -4602, or toll free across the United States, it's 1 -877 -753 -3341.

And now with today's topic, here is James White.

And welcome to The Dividing Line on a Saturday afternoon, and I'm not sure how many years ago it was now, that we began doing The Dividing Line. Initially, well, of course, we did it back in the 80s on various radio stations here in the Phoenix area, but then we started up again in the late 90s, somewhere along the lines.

And initially, I believe it was a half-hour program, we would frequently record some of those, and then we went live with an hour-long program on Saturday afternoons. And when we decided to go to the webcast, because 98 of all of our phone calls were coming through the internet, and it was very, very, very, very, very expensive to be on a radio station, we kept doing it at 2 o 'clock on Saturday afternoons.

And to be honest with you, it is a pain. You can't do anything on the weekends with your families. You can't go anywhere. You can't do anything. It's right in the middle of the day. So you've got to rush, do things in the morning, and then rush, do things in the evening.

And the timing just isn't all that good, and to be honest with you, I'm not really sure why we did it the way that we've done it. But anyways, we started thinking, given how often I'm gone on weekends, you know, we can do this whenever we jolly well want to, right?

And we can, and we have. We've done Thursday evenings, we've done it at the top of the hour at night, or sometimes we'll just start it whenever we want to start it. And we normally have gone 90 minutes, because that's what you can fit on a cassette tape anyways, at least the cassette tapes that we buy.

And so anyways, we started thinking about, well, since I'm gone a lot on weekends, and when I do leave, I normally leave like on a Thursday, Friday-type situation, gone Saturday, Sunday, come back. I'm teaching Monday nights, and I mentioned last week some of the classes that I'll be teaching on Monday evenings for the foreseeable future for Golden Gate Seminary here in Phoenix.

Some really cool classes. If you haven't heard that program, you might want to listen to it. And so I try to get back as early as I can in the week, obviously. And so what we're going to try to do is go to a new schedule beginning this week.

And ironically, I will be in San Antonio this Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday morning. So it's a good time to do this, because I wouldn't be here to do a dividing line next week anyways. So let's turn all the sounds off.

Thank you very much, Balthazar. That's still playing. Oh, here. STOP. Okay. Now it's safe. Anyways, some op needs to kick. Whoever started the sound in the middle of my discussion and completely disrupted everything.

Needs to be kicked right out of the channel into another hemisphere, in fact. That's what needs to happen. Anyways, so what we're going to do is on this coming Tuesday at 11 a .m. Mountain Standard Time.

And I'm not going to translate that, because no matter what we do with our schedule, those of you on the East Coast who think you rule and run things are going to be confused as to when it is. April 6th, all that changes.

And you all play with your clocks. We do not play with our clocks. And so you just figure it out. And anyways, 11 o 'clock. And here's what we've decided to do. When you do a 90-minute program, you put half of your energy into the last 30 minutes.

Now I know that doesn't sound intuitive, but really it is. You're going really strong for the first hour. That last 30 minutes can get tough, especially if you don't have phone callers. And so we've decided to actually offer you more per week, when I'm here anyways.

And that is, we're going to do two dividing lines per week. One will be Tuesday mornings at 11 our time, which right now would be 1 p .m. Eastern. That'll become 2 p .m. after April 6th, for those of you who are confused.

And then we will do a second, when I'm in town to do it, on Thursday evenings at 5 p .m. Mountain Standard Time. But they will each be one hour in length. So there will be a total of two hours of the dividing line each week, but I get two days between them.

You can sort of recharge your batteries, new things happen, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So we're going to try this schedule for a while, see how it works. We've put them toward the middle of the week because generally, except for really major trips like I did when I went to Long Island recently, or when I'll be going to Sao Paulo, Brazil in October, then we won't be doing any dividing lines at all because it takes, you know, a lot of time.

But generally, I try to limit my trips to a weekend-type thing, and so hopefully, this will cut back on the number of times that I'll be missing. Now, some people are saying, well, the Sorobos have to work during the day, and that was a fairly close imitation of CDS, actually.

But let me try it again. Well, some of us have to work during the day. That's actually sound Australian, didn't it? Anyways, well, what, what? Sad? Oh, thanks. Thanks, Warren. Oh, by the way, Warren is going to sing Elvis today since this is the last Saturday dividing line.

We have tortured you all with the threat of Warren singing Elvis, and we're going to do it today just because we're celebrating this last, this last thing. So anyways, where was I? I have no idea where I was.

Oh, yes. Yes, I know it's during the day. There are regular folks in channel during the day, too. Some people work at night. That's why we have one at 11 o 'clock in the morning and then one at five o 'clock in the evening.

So we didn't put them at the exact same time. So we'll catch different people that way. And, you know, it's interesting, especially radio programs. Most of the real big ones are on. When? When's Rush Limbaugh on?

Is he on it at choice A night or choice B day? Yes. Choice B day. So anyways, so CDS now has another question. Won't the number of calls be greatly diminished since people would be at work? Well, CDS, since you asked that question, how many calls do we get anyway?

I mean, come on, it's Saturday. There is no day during the week other than possibly Sunday that we could do this when we would get fewer calls than on on Saturday afternoon. People are out there doing things.

That's, you know, our families would like us to be out doing things, too. So I don't know that we will or we won't. But, you know, it hasn't seemed to influence Rush Limbaugh's callers. He gets lots of them during the day, during the same time period.

And 5 p .m., interestingly enough, on Thursday is right after, at least for our schedule here in Phoenix, right after the Bible Answer Man broadcast. So I have a feeling that we will do just fine as far as getting phone callers and interaction.

And honestly, there's lots and lots and lots and lots of folks who listen by archive anyways, and they're just going to be happy that they're going to be two dividing lines and they're going to be divided by two days.

And hence, there's going to be a little wider variety of topics discussed and things like that. And that's just how it's going to work. So we're going to try it for now, see how it works, see how, see where it goes.

But Dr. Erkley, won't the number of people badgering other people to call in be greatly diminished? Well, maybe they will. What can I say? Yes. Well, you know, someone just made a good point. Rush Limbaugh broadcasts on radio.

Ever try using Merck while driving? That is a good point. That is a very, very, very good point. No two ways about it. So someone kicked the man who asked the question. Anyways. Anyhow, that's what we're going to do.

And you know what? There's not anything that all of you people in there stop kicking the poor British fellow. There you go. Anyways, that's what we're going to do. So I hope you'll be listening to to the program this Tuesday if you have the opportunity of doing so.

If you don't, it's going to be it's going to be archived anyways. So, you know, it'll it'll work one way or the other. So don't don't worry yourself about it. And if you can't catch it on Tuesdays, you can catch it on Thursdays.

And who knows, maybe people on Thursdays will ask about issues from Tuesday and maybe on Tuesday I'll ask about issues from last Thursday. You know, I don't know. That's that's fine. It'll work one way or the other.

Anyhow, let's move on. And certainly if you would like to comment, in fact, the CBS would like to call in and and whine, we will allow him to whine on the air. And that way it'll also help me to practice my British accent.

And, you know, that's cool. And if you want to hear what a Cajun sounds like, Amphibo can call in. And, you know, if he's done with it, with his cleaning duties for the for the day, he can he can call in.

And if someone would like to wire Balthazar, you know, 100 bucks to call from Australia or something like that, that's that's that's fine, too. Whatever whatever you want to do, that's that's how we'll work it out.

And the number is 877 -753 -3341. 877 -753 -3341 is the phone number. I was informed and I should mention. On let me look at the little note that I left for myself here, March 13th is a Tuesday. No, no, no, that's a Thursday.

Let me close the program down here. Yes, it is a Thursday evening, five o 'clock. We're going to have a debate on on the dividing line. Even the folks in the control studio are not completely aware of this, I don't think.

A fellow in IRC who goes by the name of Aquinas, who's also gone by other names. As well, gave me a name of Steven. But to be honest with you, no one that I know of is really certain what his name is.

But anyways, he has been well, he's been a part of apologetics discussions. He's a Roman Catholic. Interestingly enough, unlike most Roman Catholics with whom we speak. He will make the claim to being a part of the magisterium, a spokesperson for the magisterium.

He says he is a teacher and that he is qualified and authorized by the Roman Catholic Church to teach dogma and doctrine. And therefore, unlike most Roman Catholic apologists who will duck and run when you really want to put something down in writing, he will say, no, this is what the church teaches.

Now, of course, you can find all sorts of other folks, priests and others who would disagree, but that's the nature of the beast. Anyways, a number of weeks or months ago now, a discussion took place in the apologetics channel on the subject of the Apocrypha.

And I have a number of pop-ups that I play in IRC that give information concerning, for example, the early church's view of the Apocryphal books, the mixed bag of views that you have there, Gregory the Great's statement concerning Maccabees and how it was not canonical and so on and so forth, all the way up to the time of the Reformation.

For that matter, you have a number of... In fact, it's fascinating for those of you who are into the issue of the textual history of the New Testament, especially, you know that Erasmus, one of the reasons that he rushed so much...

Most of you know about the situation, the text revelation. Erasmus was under tremendous amount of pressure from John Froben, his printer, to get his work done so he could get it printed. And they sort of rolled the dice, so to speak.

They did not wait for papal approval of the publication of the book. Instead, they basically tried to schmooze the Pope by dedicating the volume to him. And the reason that he was rushing so much was because Froben was aware that Cardinal Jimenez had already printed what's called the Completentian Polyglot.

But it hadn't been published yet because, let's face it, if Vatican protocol and the bureaucracy is slow today, can you imagine what it was in 1515 and 1516? I mean, at least you can make phone calls, use faxes, and so on and so forth.

You can't do that back in those days. So it took a long period of time. So Jimenez's work had been printed, it just hadn't been published yet. It was sitting basically in a storage room someplace. And so what's fascinating is that that particular volume, Cardinal Jimenez's, which was the first printed, not published, the first printed Greek New Testament, in its prologue held to Jerome's rejection of the apocryphal books, and the Pope approved the publication of it.

Now remember, this is, you know, it finally comes out, what was it, late 1516, late 1517? I forget the exact date when Jimenez's was finally put into circulation. It was a superior work to Erasmus' in many senses.

But that particular volume, let's just go with 1517, so you're talking approximately 29 years prior to the decree in 1546 from the Council of Trent on the nature of the canon. And so it's obvious that scholars are correct that there were numerous views on the subject of the canon of the Old Testament, and that there were many, including those at the very highest levels of the Roman Church, who did not hold to the canon as decreed by the Council of Trent.

Well, some of this discussion took place in Channel, not that last particular section, but just sections of it. And Mr. Aquinas, Stephen Person, the own Catholic apologist, you're just all wrong about that.

In fact, I could open up the log from last night, and he was saying, well, so you're backing down. I would love to have the opportunity of correcting you, correcting your misapprehensions on these things, but you're backing down.

You won't debate this, yada, yada, yada. Okay, so we're going to have Aquinas on the program. We may have to go long that night, because if we only do an hour, that's really not sufficient time to do a whole lot as far as making meaningful presentations on the subject of the canonicity of the Apocrypha.

But polyglot, it is an interesting word to say with a British accent. Anyways, but mark your calendars for the 13th. Lord willing, that's all going to work out for us, and you might be ready with your questions and comments on that particular subject as well.

So that'll be coming up in the not-too-distant future. I think I mentioned next week I'll be in San Antonio. Those of you who are always looking to go to debates, the next two debates that we have scheduled are April 4th and 5th, April 4th and 5th at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, Utah at the U of U.

That's where we had the debate just last October, I believe, on the subject of deification, theosis. And on Friday night, April 4th, I will be debating R. Dennis Potter, a graduate of Notre Dame. He is a Roman Catholic.

I'm sorry. He is a Mormon who graduated from a Roman Catholic institution, PhD in philosophy. We will be debating the issue of the role of the atonement and the nature of the atonement as he understands it.

And then the next evening, it is a doubleheader, and that's why some of you might think about this because you've wanted to come to debates, and it's like, man, drive all that way just for one. Well, we're doing one Friday night and doing another one Saturday night.

So the one Friday night is on Mormonism in a Mormon area, obviously. And then the next night, when not nearly as many Mormons could be around because it's the night of General Conference, I'll be debating Robert St. Genes yet once again.

Hopefully, this one will turn out a little bit different than the last one on the subject of the mass. And specifically, I don't have the specific thesis in front of me, but as I recall, it was along the lines of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ includes the Roman Catholic mass.

In other words, the mass is a part of the atoning work of Christ. And so that's what that debate will be about. So you've got two debates in April, and then right now, we are scheduled and still working out all the details of the Long Island debate, great debate.

I think it's eight, isn't it? Isn't this the eighth? I think it's the eighth one. The great debate eight. Actually, that obviously works pretty well. The great debate eight will be on the 29th of May at the Huntington townhouse in Huntington, Long Island, and we are currently attempting to get an opponent, a Roman Catholic opponent who will debate the issue of the priesthood.

Not the current debate over the corruption of the priesthood, but is there such a thing as a sacramental priesthood in the New Testament? Is it, was it established by Jesus Christ, or is it the creation of men?

And obviously, I believe it is the creation of men. It is not something that the New Testament teaches, hints at, or anything else. The only priesthood in the New Testament is the high priesthood of Jesus Christ, and then the priesthood of all believers.

It is not a sacramental priesthood in the sense that Rome has defined those terms and utilizes those terms, so on and so forth. So that's what's coming up in the next couple of months. I don't think, I may, may, there is, there is a very, I haven't heard back from these folks yet, but maybe in normal Illinois, the last weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, which is the 25th, 26th, 27th of April, maybe in the normal Illinois area that has not yet been, been absolutely confirmed and established as of yet.

So just things for you to keep in mind, things coming up, let you know that we remain very busy here at, at the ministry. We keep, keep working. Some of you have asked for a report very quickly. The Dave Hunt Project is, is back online as far as we are working on it.

I can tell you that the old publisher, Loyal, which published Dave Hunt's book, What Love Is This, has been purchased and the listing of all those books has been purchased by Multnomah and hence that project is now a Multnomah project and it is now ongoing.

In fact, they're waiting for me and I told them, I said, look, I've always had my stuff in first, but this has been put on hold for so long because of the sale and stuff that I have some other things I need to do right now and so I'm going to do that first.

I mean, that's, I have to have priorities. I've got a chapter that I need to really get some work done on this week, even though I'm going to San Antonio. It's due by the end of the month, so I only have two weeks left on church governance.

I've done the requisite study. It's time to put all the stuff on paper and that's what I'm working on right now. As soon as that's done, I have one little addition to another chapter to do and then get the next round with the Hunt stuff done and since each section is getting shorter and shorter, it doesn't make it much easier because you actually have to be even clearer and clearer each time you have less words to say it in, but it should be done.

We certainly should be able to see this in the not too distant future. It'll be out. I can't say exactly how, what it's worth is going to be, but it certainly should be out. I need to get it done because I have another book due in September on the subject of sola scriptura, finally getting around to writing that popular presentation on that vital and important subject.

A number of folks asking the question one last time very quickly. The new schedule for the dividing line will be Tuesday mornings 11 a .m. Mountain Time and Mountain Standard Time always and then Thursday evenings at 5 p .m. Mountain Standard Time.

That will change, of course, for all the rest of you who play with your clocks, but those of you who do not, it will be working that way. So how are you going to do Thursday's show in Texas? I'm not going to do Thursday's show.

That's why. And what's the latest about the cruise? Cruise is, of course, ongoing. Still good rates available. I hope those of you who have been thinking about it will take advantage of it. We are still going to be discussing those issues that are central to the Christian apologetic to other religions, obviously, because the fact that the majority of those on the ship, as far as the crew are concerned, are Muslim.

We are going to be primarily focused upon a positive presentation. But since our groups are never overly huge, we will do personal discussions in private chambers or out on the deck, so on and so forth, when we want to get into more specific areas.

For example, when we discuss what the Koran says about Christ, when we discuss the various forms of Hadith and things like that, we will do that in the context of a little more private setting. We're not going to stick a sign outside of the meeting room that says, you know, Muhammad's marriage to a six-year-old discussed today by quoting from Islamic Hadith.

You know, that's a good way to get on a boat and never be seen again. So that's sort of dumb. So anyways, we're still going on with that perspective. But obviously, we're going to try to show some level of wisdom as to how we handle those things on the boat itself in that situation.

So looking forward to that opportunity. It's coming up. It's getting closer. We are very excited about some of the folks who are going to be with us. And we would like to have some more of you who have been thinking about it.

It is a wonderful opportunity to get away. I really don't think you could go to most places like Disneyland or whatever those other places are for a week's period of time for anything cheaper than you can get in regards to this particular cruise.

So keep that in mind as well. So is it going to remain a webcast alone or will it be on a radio station? No, it will not be on a radio station. We do not have the money to be on radio stations. If you want to be on a radio station, you have to have massive funding.

And we've found absolutely no one who has the slightest interest in providing us with massive funding. And we're not going to do the things that you need to do to obtain massive funding, which means massive begging.

And so you either start off with a huge ministry that can absorb the costs of radio and you still have to, I don't care who it is, I've seen anybody who has a radio program has to at times talk about money.

They have to talk about you need to give, you need to do this. If we don't hear from you, we're going to kill you off your station. And I'm just not going to do that in any way, shape or form. Are Presbyterians allowed on the cruise?

Yes. However, if you fall off the side, you will be baptized. Sorry. Yes. Hey, it was asked in channel. What can I say? So I assume the radio station paid you very well. I'll tell you what, Wonka, you start your own radio station and we'll be on it.

We've got people who want to advertise now and everything else. I'll tell you, it's an amazing thing. I'm also told by the powers that be, the high and mighty technical people who sit just across the wall from me.

And most of the time, to be honest with you, they're not listening to a word I say. They're talking to each other. They're doing their own thing. He's just in there talking. We don't have to worry about him.

I'll never forget the time I kept writing him this little note. I was sick. I said, I need water. And I sent it. Nothing happened. So I capitalized, I need water. And I sent it again. And I just kept repeating it.

So the whole screen is filled up with, I need water. And then finally, some of you may recall, I just stopped. I took the headphones off and walked to the door. And I eventually got the water. But anyways, they have fun in there.

Normally, it's because Warren is singing. And that's just something he likes to do alone, generally. And that's probably best for the rest of us. Anyways, they're telling me that it's time for a break.

So if you would like to share some of your memories of Saturday afternoons with the Dividing Line, 877 -753 -3341. We'll be right back.

Justification by Faith and the Book That Defends It

The history of the Christian church pivots on the doctrine of justification by faith. Once the core of the Reformation, the church today often ignores or misunderstands this foundational doctrine. In his book, The God Who Justifies, theologian James White calls believers to a fresh appreciation of, understanding of, and dedication to the great doctrine of justification, and then provides an exegesis of the key scripture texts on this theme.

Justification is the heart of the gospel. In today's culture where tolerance is the new absolute, James White proclaims with passion the truth and centrality of the doctrine of justification by faith.

Dr. Jay Adams says, I lost sleep over this book. I simply couldn't put it down. James White writes the way an exegetically and theologically oriented pastor appreciates. This is no book for casual reading.

There is solid meat throughout. An outstanding contribution in every sense of the words. The God Who Justifies by Dr. James White. Get your copy today at AOMN .org. More than any time in the past, Roman Catholics and evangelicals are working together.

They are standing shoulder to shoulder against social evils. They are joining across denominational boundaries in renewal movements. And many evangelicals are finding the history, tradition, and grandeur of the Roman Catholic Church appealing.

This newfound rapport has caused many evangelical leaders and lay people to question the age-old disagreements that have divided Protestants and Catholics. Aren't we all saying the same thing in a different language?

James White's book, The Roman Catholic Controversy, is an absorbing look at current views of tradition and scripture. The papacy, the mass, purgatorian indulgences, and Marian doctrine. James White points out the crucial differences that remain regarding the Christian life and the heart of the gospel itself that cannot be ignored.

Order your copy of The Roman Catholic Controversy by going to our website at AOMN .org. This portion of the dividing line has been made possible by the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. The Apostle Paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of God.

The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church. The elders and people of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church invite you to worship with them this coming Lord's Day.

The morning Bible study begins at 9 .30 a .m. and the worship service is at 10 .45. Evening services are at 6 .30 p .m. on Sunday and the Wednesday night prayer meeting is at 7. The Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church is located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix.

You can call for further information at 602 -26-GRACE. If you're unable to attend you can still participate with your computer and real audio at prbc .org where the ministry extends around the world through the archives of sermons and Bible study lessons available 24 hours a day.

How the pilgrims progress it's not an easy way I have to do something about uh something about our commercials too I mean we've not.

Only have we simply had the same commercials for uh uh forever uh but we're not gonna have room for all of them. I mean we're gonna have to. You know you only got one break in there because we're only doing an hour.

You know my headset didn't stay. You know how these cords get all wound up. Ah much better this little entropy taking place there in the universe it's don't worry about it happens every single day. It's called age.

Anyways I do have a few things to play for you today. Some interesting little things. I was I really don't I wish I had time you know if we had the the big staff of folks just sitting around waiting to do this that the other thing it would be easier to do this but one thing I would do is I would have people monitor things like EWTN or Catholic Answers Live or things like that and so I I just basically this afternoon before the program started I uh scanned the topics on the Catholic Answers Live and they had one with Patrick Madrid talking about scripture and tradition and I knew it wouldn't be too difficult uh to find some interesting things to talk about there and uh I was right.

And again the the main thing that I I was struck with was uh you got to give Patrick Madrid credit uh he's been saying the exact same thing uh since I started studying Roman Catholicism uh his arguments against Sola Scriptura are 100 predictable because they haven't changed.

What concerns me is everything that Pat Madrid says about Sola Scriptura has now been responded to in print uh since let's say you know over the course the past what 13 years um someone channel uh just put Catholic Answers twice the length half the thought well that does sort of fit into what I'm saying right now uh and that is uh well uh you know if um well for example someone once sent me a tape I forget how long ago this was about 19 it's 96 it's 1996 and someone sent me a tape of a call-in program to St. Joseph Catholic Radio that Tim Staples was on this guy called in and he was asking about the white question and it was the question that I had asked Jerry Matitix on WMUZ uh in Boston um on the Jean Graff show uh in 1993 about how a believing Jew um 50 years before Christ would be able to know that Isaiah and Second Chronicles were scripture and uh so I listened intently to the responses that they offered.

And now when I talk about that question I offer the responses I've heard uh I offer Patrick Madrid's response because we corresponded on it. I offered what Matitix said that day which was I don't know um I offer all the different responses I've gotten.

So I've listened to the attempts to answer the question. And now when I present it instead of just throwing it out there and not listening to the replies I throw it out there. And I've made it a stronger argument because I listen to what has been said in response.

Well uh that's not what these folks do because what we're going to hear is again the same regurgitation of the same simplistic arguments against sola scriptura the same simplistic arguments that take no consideration whatsoever not only of the the great works that had been in print for 100 years and more.

Uh people like Salmon and Good and and Whitaker just ignores all that they don't even it's like they aren't even aware that these books exist or could care less that they do. But even books that have been written since then.

I mean I've I've taken on Madrid's perspective in my own written books and he may not like them. He may not even respect the responses. But wouldn't his argument be stronger if he would show a familiarity with it I would think so uh what about the Webster and King books.

Can you imagine being a Roman Catholic apologist today. Someone puts out a 1500 1500 1150 page work on your key issue and you don't even refer to it. I know that you can't write a reputation 1150 pages.

Uh no one's going to publish something like that. That's that's not the issue. The point is you'd have to listen to it and and upgrade. Let's use a computer term. Here you've got to upgrade your system.

You've got to upgrade your replies. Or you're gonna be stuck back in DOS days you know uh and you're not really gonna be able to handle things too. Well so that's that's what I hear going on as and this took place.

Uh let me see here uh minimize the screen here. Uh this was Wednesday this was Wednesday's program. So you know three days ago.

Uh here's here's what Patrick Madrid is saying. And we can verify that from scripture itself. For example if we looked at Luke chapter 1 the very first five verses of Luke's gospel are the place where he tells Theophilus this man to whom he seems to have been dedicating the gospel or at least um writing it to him in mind with him in mind.

And he says that the the message that you heard that you were taught from eyewitnesses is true and trustworthy. And now I'm going to set down in an orderly sequence those things that took place in the life of Christ as a way to verify or vouchsafe those oral teachings that you've already received.

And there we see a glimpse of that point that where we Catholics would say no we're not a Bible church in quite the same way the Protestants are. Because Protestants would say that they go to the Bible and they locate their doctrines and that's what they teach.

They teach what they find in the Bible. The Catholic church says yes we do that. But we also have the added dimension that the church was teaching its doctrines prior to scripture being set down. And when the Holy Spirit inspired the the sacred authors to write the epistles and the gospels of the New Testament that that was a way to further confirm and and spread more widely the teachings that the church was already giving.

Prior to that point now listen very carefully to what is said there I want to I want to take this back here focus in upon this. There's there's nothing. Obviously if you go through the material that has been generated in response to Rome over the past number of of years everyone recognizes that during periods of inscripturation revelation that the gospel was orally preached so on so forth that we've all pointed out that Rome is wrong to say that there was no Bible that of course is is simply in error.

Obviously the church very clearly utilized the scriptures that she had which is called the Tanakh the old covenant scriptures which were hers and they were absolutely authoritative. But there has been of course further revelation that is given and Rome likes to try to focus upon.

Well when scripture was still being written then you couldn't have solo scriptura and the rest was go yeah was scripture still being written. No. Okay let's talk about today. That's the big issue. That's the big big topic that comes up of course.

Oops I had the I have that line forwarded to my cell phone. There guys that's that's not going to work a little technical adjustment here and it was oh stop it hang up there. Star 73. Okay I just fixed it.

It's another reason we don't go on the radio anyways. Um hey I forwarded my cell phone I forward my office phone to my cell phone. That's how people get hold of me. That's you know what. Anyways uh whoever that was they're gonna have to call back.

Um anyways uh what what in the world was this thing. Oh yeah. So let's go turn so we've all talked about that. It was oh it's a pope. Great wonderful. Finally had our chance for the debate and we missed it.

I just hung up on the pope. Yep there's the private line says Vatican right there on my screen on my really cool little Motorola phone. There it says says Vatican has a little hat on it. Um uh thanks thanks everyone.

Uh if this wasn't your last day anyways um oh he just got off the phone with Saddam huh. He's got some information for us. Thought we would be the best way to get this information out to the world. He got off the phone with Saddam wants to talk to me.