March 1, 2021 Show with Dr. Robert E. Brunansky on “Ecclesiology: The Missing Doctrine in Evangelicalism”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with

your own questions.

And now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on

the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this first day

of March 2021.

I'm thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest.

This will be his second interview with us on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

His name is Dr. Robert E. Bernanski and he is pastor of Desert Hills

Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

We are going to be discussing this time ecclesiology, the missing doctrine in evangelism, and

it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Robert E.

Bernanski.

Thanks a lot, Chris.

It's great to be here.

Appreciate you having me back on the show.

It's my pleasure, brother, and send my greetings to a member of your church that

I miss dearly.

I miss the days when he was coming out to Long Island to assist Dr. James

R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries in the production of the recording and production of the debates that I

orchestrated for over a decade on Long Island, and I'm speaking of Rich Pierce, who is

the president of Dr. White's ministry, Alpha and Omega Ministries,

and just send my greetings to him, and I hope we get an opportunity to see him soon.

I hope he's coming to the G3 conference this fall.

I know that Dr. White is on the speaking roster again,.

So I hope Rich will be accompanying

him, and

I'm very grateful for him

and his friendship,.

And I'm also grateful that he introduced me to you, so it's been a pleasure having you on the program, and

I'm sure it will be a pleasure today, and anybody who wants to

hear and see an excellent message that Dr. Bernanski

delivered on the Dividing Line, that's James White's webcast

when he filled in for Dr. White, one of the occasions that he filled in.

I don't know the exact title of it, but it had to do with your congregation's refusal to

shut down during the hysteria associated with the coronavirus pandemic, and

I think a lot of it had to do with masks and the statistical information, if you could refresh my memory

exactly what the.

Theme was.

Yeah, so I've actually done

a few guests during the

day of last year.

Pretty much every

there were maybe a few others, but in the Greater Phoenix,

and then back in December, we had an

episode called To Mask or Not.

That's probably the

one I saw.

Okay, yeah.

Amen, and

I.

Actually have my first doctor appointment with a new general

practitioner that I hope will be my permanent doctor, Dr. Joel

Yeager, who is actually a guest on this program.

He is a Christian and a Reformed Christian, and he does not believe in the

myths of masks.

He does not require them for either his staff or his patients at his medical

practice here in Pennsylvania, so I'm looking forward to

my first visit.

Not that I ever am really looking forward to a doctor's visit, but

it'll be refreshing, though, not to be scolded for not having my mask above my nose and other

things that I've been experiencing from people who should know better or do know better and just are

going with the flow of the leftist tyranny that's going on.

Absolutely,.

Yeah, the doctor that I need,

but I'm grateful that they're great.

Well, tell our listeners about Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

Desert Hills Bible Church,

attendees

a week.

It's in the north part.

Really?

Yeah, yeah, we

ended up

at

our January

congregating

night, and I

think are wanting to follow him in

obedience.

Well, if anybody wants to know,.

I'm sorry, I started to speak before you were finished.

Continue.

I was going to say, you can.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel if you want.

We're Desert Hills Bible Church on YouTube in Phoenix and a sermon

on the YouTube

channel now.

We've got a podcast you can

use.

You can do that.

Online.

And the website is DesertHillsChurch .com, DesertHillsChurch .com.

And going back just briefly, I don't want to derail the topic today, but as far as the Evangelical Free Church

goes, is it still pretty much very close to

Baptistic local autonomy of congregations and independents, where

even though some of the horrific things you just mentioned have crept into the denomination, are these things being imposed on

all congregations in the denomination, or is there still a lot of liberty for independents in that

denomination?

Yeah, they didn't kick us out.

I mean, we left voluntarily.

No, but what I mean is, are they imposing softer views on homosexuality on you or

anybody else that was in the denomination?

No, they're not forcing the issue.

You're welcome

to state

your leadership

and convince

your leadership.

It's clearly sinful in

Scripture.

They don't impose it on the churches, not in any direct way.

So, I mean, there was nothing that they were trying to make us do as a church, but we were not comfortable

to have that money go to sponsor a conference related

to syncretism and feminism.

So, you know, when I talk

to you, are we doing that?

We're going to be doing more.

Of it.

Wow.

Well, I've got to do a program on that sometime, because I have had many friendships with people in the Evangelical Free

Church, and I don't know where they're standing right now, because this is all new

information to me, all news to me.

Yeah, we've got a couple of articles about it on our church website, on our blog.

How about Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield,

Illinois?

Are they succumbing to this as well?

You know, I'm not familiar.

I don't.

Really follow it.

I'm assuming that is an official Evangelical Free Church school, isn't it?

It is, yeah.

And then Trinity,

and so, you know, I don't know that I do at

Trinity.

I just never was

affiliated with it.

I understand.

Now, one more thing, because it's kind of crucial, since we brought it up, we don't want to be accused

by anyone of giving false information, but when you say that a promotion of

homosexuality is taking place at Evangelical Free Church conferences,

I know, and I'm not putting my seal of approval on even this.

I'm very opposed to even the idea of there

being an existence of gay Christians, quote -unquote, who are chaste and celibate,

or who marry people of the opposite sex but still identify themselves as gay.

I'm very opposed to all of that.

And I question the legitimacy of the regeneration of anybody

who basically waves the white flag to the unnatural

and abominable sin of homosexuality and wears it as an identity, even if they

claim chastity and celibacy.

So, I'm very opposed to that.

But is that what they are.

Promoting, or are they actually promoting the

activity?

Well, not promoting homosexuality.

And, yeah, so,

you know, you

won't go...

They

have homosexuality.

So, the

money that is

being donated to the EFCA from EFCA churches is being used as...

Now, would it be as far as.

To people involved in the sexual sin who are living together, or people who are actually, quote -unquote,

married to other men, men married to other men, women married to other women, and on and on we could go with the

ways this depraved sin is manifested?

Yeah, yeah.

So, I have a link, I think, on

our church

website, and gay quote

-unquotes that serve in ministry,

people believing to

call you to repentance,

and to disciple you, and help you.

You know, there's no hatred, just like there is for

adultery, or, you know,

they're dead in their sins.

Amen.

If you really love a homosexual, you have to hate homosexuality.

Absolutely.

If you have a biblical love for them, because you want to see them rescued from something that will

not only likely end their lives on earth early, especially if they are male

homosexual, but it will prevent them from enjoying eternal life with Christ, so...

Right.

Yeah.

1 Corinthians 6, 9, right?

Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Right.

Well, we've definitely got to do a show on this.

Maybe I could get several EV3 or former EV3

pastors to speak on this whole phenomenon.

Yeah, and I'll tell you, I've

been, I've talked to,

you know, a number of pastors.

It's a day and a time when

the church has to stand, and would

you be okay with

being...

I can't believe I was asked the question.

I mean, you

can't help but find out right away, but when they're

advertising, why on earth would we ever

compromise?

In their mind,

which

has been

growing

in just awesome

ways, people coming.

You know, what usually happens,

saying, oh my goodness, I've never heard this before.

I didn't even realize this was in

scripture.

I never thought most of my ministry would have...

Well, I

definitely opened up a can of

worms, didn't I, by asking a simple question,.

And I definitely do want to pursue that program on the EV3 denomination.

So, like I said, if your listeners want more info, they can go to our website.

Okay.

Well, today we are discussing ecclesiology, the missing doctrine in evangelism,

and ecclesiology is one of those big book learning words,

especially if someone is a new believer or not a believer at all, because we

do have, in addition to seasoned Christians and pastors and even theologians

listening to the show regularly, we have very often very new

Christians and sometimes even non -Christians like Muslims or people from other

religions who make their identity known to me via email or on social media,

sometimes atheists and agnostics, but so please...

Praise God they're listening.

Amen.

Well, please define ecclesiology for us.

Yeah, well, first of all, evangelicalism.

Oh, okay, because I don't know if that was a typo on your part or mine, but...

It was probably a typo on my part, but, yes,

even

ecclesiology,

the missing

doctrine

in

evangelism

is about

ecclesiology this morning.

It's one of those areas that

people really don't...

Now, obviously, the position that you.

Take personally and that Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona

takes on ecclesiology would determine the thrust or the

direction that you're going with this subject, I'm assuming, so what is your personal

ecclesiology?

Well, it's a wide range

of ecclesiology.

Ecclesiology touches on what is the church,

what is social

communion, beliefs, deacons,

all of that, the authority structure, church

gathering and qualified church...

Right.

...that this touches on.

But there would be, even though a Reformed Baptist such as myself

and someone who is Baptistic, if I'm gathering your description correctly,

of Desert Hills Bible Church, you're not officially a Baptist church, but you are Baptistic, if I'm not

mistaken.

Correct.

There would be differences in some important aspects of

ecclesiology that we would have from our friends and brothers and sisters who are in

Presbyterian and other Pato -Baptist Reformed denominations.

Even though there would be a lot of overlap, there would be differences on hierarchical structure and

the whole issue of autonomy of congregations and independence, and

even sometimes it affects or involves the ordinances of the church, also known as sacraments by

some.

So to start out the show, why don't you at least give somewhat of a

summary of.

How you would describe your ecclesiology?

Right.

So, you know, we are, like you mentioned, we're Baptistic,

this Believer Baptism.

We don't require someone to be baptized as a Believer to be a member, if they are

convinced in their own mind that they were baptized.

Right, that would be something that the EV3 denomination held to.

Right.

Holds to.

Yeah, and so we're still, I'm

a Believer, and we

don't teach that.

We're not going to baptize you if you've

been baptized.

But, you know, if

you've been baptized...

How about if you're somebody from the Salvation Army or some other group that doesn't believe.

In baptism at all?

No, if you don't believe in baptism at all, that's what the New

Testament teaches, and you wouldn't be able to become a member.

And of course, I should clarify,.

You don't believe in water baptism at all.

Sure, right.

The ordinance.

You know what's

interesting

about

this?

You know, we talk about, you

ask, well, how

come breakdown in ecclesiology?

Just in this very

simple, encourage them to be baptized, allow them to

be fully baptized,

and you would maybe not even know

that.

You are the elders that are...

And we have to go to our first break right now.

If anybody has a question of their own on ecclesiology, the missing doctrine of evangelicalism,

our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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We'll be right back with Dr. Rob Bernanski of Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is Dr. Robert E. Bronanski, pastor of

Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

We are discussing ecclesiology, the missing doctrine in evangelicalism.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Always give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Dr. Rob, how is, in your opinion, ecclesiology a missing

doctrine from evangelicalism?

There are a lot of things missing from modern -day evangelicalism that

give me great reason for sorrow and distress and

horror at times.

And ecclesiology typically would not be the first thing that pops into my head.

I'm not saying that I have a correct reaction to

what's missing from evangelicalism.

I'm just saying that that's not the immediate thing that would pop to my head.

And there are also a lot of things that are in modern -day evangelicalism that don't belong in

any church or in the mind or the lips or the writings of anyone

who professes to be a follower of Christ.

But if you could, why is this such an important issue to you and what's missing?

In what way is it missing?

Let's look at the ecclesiology as what

is the church.

I don't think they really know.

What authority do they

not have?

How do they

submit to Christ?

And if you

think about

this, I mean,

how much they're being...

Now, I brought

this up and guests

have

brought this

up on my show

in the

past,.

But I think it bears repeating.

Some of the most well -known and beloved figures in

Christendom have failed miserably in this area.

And the one that immediately comes to mind is the late Billy Graham.

There have been many people who have reported to me over

the years how dismayed they were to discover that

the Billy Graham Association, now I don't know if any changes are taking place and if they are

changes that will improve things or make them more unbiblical, but

if you were to volunteer to be a counselor at a Billy Graham crusade, to be

waiting for those that come forward to confess their sin

and to request Christ to come into

their lives, or as the very common evangelical slogan goes, invite

Jesus into their hearts, etc., you are forbidden

as a counselor in the Billy Graham Crusade Association to refer someone to a

biblically sound church or any specific church other than the churches or religions

from which these people came.

That is a very disturbing reality,

sending the person who is lost, likely because they have been lied to

about God and about salvation their entire lives because of a false religion they were

raised in, and you're sending them back to that religion?

I mean, it's utterly mind -boggling.

But is this one of the ways where ecclesiology is

absent from evangelicalism in that there's perhaps such an overreaction

to putting salvation in the hands of a priesthood, in a

sacerdotal system like the Church of Rome, there very often is an overreaction to that

where the church has little to no importance at all other than a nice add -on, and a nice

icing on the cake, and a nice thing that would improve our lives as Christians

and benefit us, but they're not viewed as something that goes hand -in -hand with becoming a born -again believer.

If you could pick up where I left off there.

Yeah, well, first of all, I think when you think about things like this,

there's many people to

save through

that

ministry

that are,

and if they begin to veer off,

the Parachurch

Ministry,

you know, the Master's Seminary

Agency, but all

these

things

out,

and they're no

longer part of the

Church.

They're their own independent entity,

because now, where do you send people?

A

qualified board of

elders, sound and biblical, and these are the

ones we're going to partner with in

London for this very reason.

They weren't tied

to

the

old Roman

Catholic

Church anymore, because the ecclesiology,

it's

not just

bad,

it's completely gone.

Yeah, you have

this

situation.

And,

you know, it's the

Church that's the

online Church for almost a year, attending Church in person.

Again.

Well, you know something?

Churches like that, it's probably better that they permanently.

Shut their doors then.

Yeah, no, I don't disagree with you, but

within evangelicalism,

assembling.

Yeah, it's interesting that even in the secular world, you

have 12 -step groups.

I have my big problems with 12 -step groups.

I am a repentant former drunk myself,

and I know that many people have been rescued out of addictions through 12 -step groups,

in spite of the inconsistencies and the falsehoods and some even

dangerous things that go on in many of them.

But, even they recognize that it is foolish for

someone who is struggling with an addiction to think they can just do this

maverick, lone wolf, lone ranger style, and just to

be on their own and rely upon their own willpower and nothing else.

Even they, in the secular realm, realize that that's a recipe or a blueprint

for suicide.

Absolutely.

And here we have Christians teaching other Christians.

Yeah, it'd be a great thing if you found a local church, but you know, hey, it's not necessary.

And even if there are Christians that would never say that,

they definitely demonstrate that they believe it is unessential because of the way they live.

They bounce around from church to church to church, never committing to any of them, and

some never going to any of them.

And you even have some very well -known evangelists and apologists

that have traveled the world and have never made known or clear of their connection

with a local church and being under the oversight of elders, uh, et

cetera.

I mean, it has been coming out that that is likely one of the main

reasons why the downfall of the late Ravi Zacharias

was kept secret for so long.

There was no real connection.

To the authority of a local church, you

know, or

that type of

thing.

But you recognize the spiritual danger to people, you know,

who's

leading it, you

know, all of these things

being considered at all, think about that.

In fact, we're going to have to pick up,.

We're going to pick it up right where you asked that question when we return.

We have to go to a midway break.

Uh, if anybody wants to join us on the air again, our email address is chris arnson at gmail .com.

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

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Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and

always.

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My name is Justin Peters, and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and

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This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of New American

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Without the funding that comes in from their advertising campaigns, we would

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They are that important to us.

Barring a miracle from God financially, we would not be able to sustain this program without them.

So why not say thanks to Solid Ground Christian Books for

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So please never forget solid -ground -books .com, and always mention Chris

Arnzen of Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

And just a couple of other announcements before we return to our discussion with Rob Bernanski

on Ecclesiology, the Missing Doctrine of Evangelicalism.

Folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to

irontripandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in doing so, and if you prefer a snail mail,

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If you want to advertise with us, we certainly could use your advertising dollars if indeed you are promoting something that is

compatible with what we believe.

You don't have to believe identically with me to advertise on this show, but you need to be promoting something that is at the very least

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So send me an email if you are in that category and put advertising in the subject line at

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Please, folks, remember I don't want my listeners siphoning money away from their regular giving that they're accustomed

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In other words, don't punish your own church by blessing us financially.

And also, if you are really struggling to survive and make ends meet, don't put your family in

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Those two things are commands of God in Scripture, providing for your church and your family.

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Go to irontripandzionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

Finally, if you are without a Bible -believing, theologically

sound church in your area, wherever you may live on the planet Earth, I have

extensive lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, and I may be able to help you find a church.

Sometimes I have helped people in our audience all over the globe find churches right around the block from where

they live.

They didn't even know these churches existed, or they didn't know that the churches that they pass by every day

on their way to work or anywhere else, they didn't even know these churches were biblically sound.

So, I may be able to help you as well no matter where you live in the world.

So, send me an email to chrisarmsen at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line, whether it's for you,

whether it's for a church when you're going on vacation that you want to visit, or if it's for a

church for a family member, a loved one, an acquaintance that you know

of who is without a church home.

Send me an email to chrisarmsen at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr. Rob Bernanski

on our theme today, Ecclesiology, the Missing Doctrine

in Evangelicalism.

That's chrisarmsen at gmail .com, and always give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your

country of residence, if outside of the USA.

We have a listener, Dr. Rob, that has a question that is

a question that's also arisen in my own mind from time to time.

I don't know if I'm 100 settled with the way Reformed Baptists

conduct this particular area of Christian life.

I don't know if you have a different view or practice.

But the listener writes in, anonymously, I am writing anonymous because I don't want to

unnecessarily offend my own pastors and fellow members at the church where I am a member.

But even though I agree with the vast majority of all teachings

from the London Baptist Confession of Faith and all teachings and practices that I have heard and

seen observed by Reformed Baptists, one thing puzzles me.

I know that Reformed Baptists typically, perhaps never, will visit

people in the hospital or a nursing home with the Lord's Supper, and I don't

understand why, if this supper is so very important and has actual

spiritual significance and value, rather than it being strictly

a memorial or symbols.

I know that just one person bringing a hospital patient or a nursing home resident

the Lord's Supper may not be in accordance with it being a church ordinance, but if

you brought a handful of people with you or more, of course in areas where you're able to,

I'm speaking of if they open up the availability in hospitals and nursing homes where the

coronavirus has had them shut down and closed to visitor

entrance, shouldn't we be able to bring the Lord's Supper to people who would love to receive

it but.

Through no fault of their own are unable to?

Yeah, that's a great question.

I

remember

watching one live stream from

it, anything you've

got lying around.

Well, one of the cats, you know.

That's not exactly the Lord's Supper.

Some boundaries here.

It says in

1 Corinthians 11 repeatedly, when

you gather, when you

come together,

and so

they expect, but I think that when we have these

norms, that there may

be

situations

to be

in a

church.

There

does seem to be some,

under duress, there can be exceptions made when the good is

intending to accomplish.

Well, I'm assuming, I'm assuming that, I don't know this for a fact, but I'm assuming that you wouldn't even be comfortable with them

grabbing the proper elements on their own.

Absolutely.

Like.

Grape juice, wine,

bread, unleavened bread.

Bread.

But, you know, I don't think there's anything, and

maybe another church member,

even his wife,

gather together as an expression of the body for somebody who

can't be able to be there.

There's nothing magical, literally gathers, or

that would be a

good thing to

do to

the gathering of

the day.

I guess

you

could find it by...

Well, that's very refreshing.

I don't, I think it's, I think it's an act of compassion.

I think

these

norms

that need to

be followed, the Lord does

desire compassion.

You say that and you could

potentially, oh, you

need to have the church, the elders need to know

about it.

They need to be, have

more than one elder, you know, and some small group that has gathered

together to represent the body of Christ gathering there in that person.

Thank you, Anonymous, and.

I don't know if you are a first -time questioner or not, but if you are, let me know via email, and give me

your full name and mailing address, because if you are a first -time questioner, you have won a free New American Standard Bible,

compliments of the publishers of the NASB, and compliments of CVBBS .com, Cumberland

Valley Bible Book Service, who actually ship the Bible out to you.

And thanks again for the excellent question.

So tell us...

Thank you, it's a good question.

So tell us more about these areas where you think there is a dreadful

lack, perhaps a dangerous lack of concern,

or a dreadfully low level of importance given, if any,

to the function of the church, the ecclesiology of the church when it comes to the

modern.

Evangelical

realm.

Yeah, one

area that

qualified leadership,

and you get

somebody who has only

one man, and

his thoughts, his

opinion, his

life, and so

you have then...

and

lead our...

oversee the...

we've met him in person, and we've heard him teach, and things like that.

We've done our due

diligence in the

background, life,

and

ministry, because

you're putting... about

that is

because

we become like

those who

lead us.

We

become like our teacher.

That's the goal, that, you know, when you're fully

discipled,

you'll become like your

teacher.

Here in town,

immediately right off the bat, because the New

Testament is to be

the pastors

and men of the church, that that responsibility falls to the

men, and then you have... when that happens, you have the feminization of the church.

The church ends up being a place, you know, where they have all kinds of things that are done

that have nothing to do

with qualified

men that

have stepped up to lead, that you end up

with this... and you never have men,

because they're not qualified.

In fact, I have been in an event, and I won't name the

individual or the specific teams, professional

teams that he has... where he has served as a chaplain,

but he... at an event that I was at,

warned churches about not being very quick

to invite a professional athlete that they hear about who has made some kind of profession of

faith in Christ.

He warned them against being very quick to invite such people to speak at their churches, etc.,

because he has seen far too many of these men make false professions,

and wind up falling away, and people...

Many Christians, churches, and leaders in churches and parachurch groups are

so enamored with celebrity, that they think

that more people... it's a pragmatism kind of a thing...

More people are going to come to the Lord if we get celebrities and famous people get up there from the pulpit

and begin to speak, so we've got to get all these famous people that are either

athletes or actors or musical performers, whatever they may be, and then it turns out they

become an embarrassment to the body of Christ because they totally abandon their faith a few years later, or are just

unchurched, or not in a proper biblically sound church, and wind up living very horrible

lives in many ways, but that's a very...

Well, you think about this whole.

Thing

that

happened

with Kanye, right?

But that's

the point...

And

Charles

Spurgeon

even

in the 19th century

warned against this.

That's right, yeah, and you know, but what he said is this, it's the

holes of what the church... what do we fall back?

Because

none of us are going to live just

where God has placed us.

We have to... we have to serve, and so we're judging,

and you know, did that

work?

Well, that doesn't tell you anything.

We say these were faithful, godly

men because we see the effect of their ministry 500 years later.

The way that God

used that

here tomorrow would, you know, I

mean, if anything, you

read through

the New

Testament, but you

begin to ask these primary

jobs to be

missed,

so

then

the church

endeavors to be...

have any discipleship.

The whole purpose of the church

is to be rebuked by their church leaders, to keep

themselves in disciple base for the unbeliever to

come, to be fed by

ecclesiology,

and people are

starving to death spiritually, and then they feel guilty about the fact that they don't want to be starving to

death, and it's real.

We have to go to.

Our final break right now.

If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson

at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We'll be right back with Dr. Rob Bernanski and more of our discussion on ecclesiology, the missing

doctrine of evangelicalism, right after these messages from our

sponsors.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

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Here's what Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron.

Radio recently.

Good to be back.

Chris, I always enjoy our time.

You, I have to tell you, one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more

than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment.

How much do I owe you for that?

You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape.

I'm glad you said it on the air,.

So I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to

6 p .m. Eastern Time at ironsharpensironradio .com.

I'm Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And, of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and

always.

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Dear ones, my name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over

the United States.

We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday,

September 30th through Saturday, October the 2nd on the theme Christ is

supreme over all.

I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Vody

Balkam, Joel Beakey, and James White.

For details, visit G3conference .com.

That's G, the number three, conference .com.

Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October the 2nd at G3

2021.

This is Justin Peters reminding you that.

Christ is supreme over all.

I'm

Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron.

Sharpens Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them

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is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and

otherwise faith insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is CVBBS .com.

Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work

in service to you, the church, and to Christ.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CVBBS .com.

That's CVBBS .com.

Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens.

Iron Radio.

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Give the gift of health and.

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Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to

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Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ

at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333 or visit

liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

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We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the

air, like the Historical Bible Society.

The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of

historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of

scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the Bible's

reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.

Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States,

reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the Bible.

HBS's founder, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, is committed to sharing this collection

along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church.

Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org.

The collection includes a complete 11th century Bible, an actual page of the Gutenberg Bible from

1455, the first book ever printed, the Geneva Bible, the 1611

King James Bible, and much, much more.

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org today.

Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

And don't forget, folks, if you donate a minimum of $35 to

the Historical Bible Society at historicalbiblesociety .org, you'll receive a

44 -page book, 9 by 12, I believe, in

dimension, of the ecclesi I'm sorry, not the ecclesiology,

the genealogy of Jesus.

And it is a beautiful book.

It looks as if it's been printed on parchment paper.

Every page contains artwork of the genealogy of Jesus

that is printed directly from a first edition 1611 King James Bible.

It's really a breathtaking 44 -page book, and quite large.

As I said, it's about 9 by 12 in dimension.

And you will get that for a donation of $35 or more to historicalbiblesociety

.org.

And if you are donating to them, make sure that you tell them that you are doing so because you want them to

continue supporting Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

And we thank Dan Belofuco, attorney at law, and the folks at the Historical Bible

Society for renewing your contract with us for advertising on this program.

And if anybody wants to join us, send in your email address quickly because we are

rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and country of residence.

We have Christopher from Western Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who has a

question for you, Dr. Rob.

I have been recommended to read a book called Biblical Eldership by Alexander

Strauch.

Do you also recommend this book?

Yeah, we

are

going to be

doing it.

So they

need

to understand that needs to

be built from the ground up because most people that I've encountered,

they do not equate that idea with being a pastor.

It doesn't mean every pastor is

clergy.

And

the full title, just for

anybody else's information that may want to order this book,.

Because I have actually have been blessed for quite a number of years by

the publishers of that book.

Lewis and Roth Publishers have in the past, at quite a

number of my Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheons, have provided

copies of this book that were given away to pastors in attendance.

And so I want to thank Lewis and Roth Publishers for being so generous for so

long for the Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheons.

The full title is Biblical Eldership, an Urgent Call to Restore Biblical

Church Leadership.

And once again by Alexander Strauch and has been endorsed by some

really wonderful folks like John MacArthur, Alistair Begg,

S. Lewis Johnson, the late S. Lewis Johnson.

And I know that David Murray, who was formerly on the staff at Puritan Reform

Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, really loved this commentary as well.

So you can go to lewisandroth .com, and Lewis is spelled L -E -W -I -S and

Roth .com.

Or you could go to cvvbs .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, and order it there.

And if they don't have it, they will order it for you.

And I would actually prefer if you go to cvvbs .com to order it, since they sponsor this show.

And they will order anything that our listeners would like to get a hold of.

And make sure you tell cvvbs .com that you heard about them from Iron Trip and Zion

Radio.

Well, I want you to have approximately two minutes of uninterrupted time, Dr. Rob,

to really summarize what you most want etched in.

The

hearts

and minds

of our listeners

today.

Do you look at, do they

limit their authority?

Do you gather to, it's a

gathering of trying to get unbelievers to come in and hear the gospel?

What is the role of the church in the

community?

Is it to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ, or just be another,

and to do that in

scripture as part of loving our neighbor, but is that the way

your church, and I think

it will become,

maybe

God is

calling

some of you to step up and lead.

Are you someone

that God would call

and lead others?

We have a final question that we have time for, and I usually only give the first name of a listener, but since he's a friend

and a pastor of a church that I highly recommend, I will give his full identity.

He is Pastor Gary George of Sovereign Grace Chapel in Southbridge, Massachusetts,

and he says, Episcopalians claim that the sub

-apostolic period at the turn of the first century, bishops were identified as being

heads over the districts that they belonged, I think he meant where

they belonged, with a class of priests being under their authority.

Is there any validity to this?

But again, I would go to

see if that

is what we find.

If they

did that in

the early second century, that may be the case.

In some cases, again, you know,

they've been mistaken.

Well, we're out of time, and I want to make sure our listeners have the website for Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

It's DesertHillsChurch .com, DesertHillsChurch .com.

I want to thank you so much, Dr. Rob, for being our guest today.

You always do a great job.

I want to thank everybody who listened today, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a

far greater Savior than you are a sinner.

Thanks a lot, Chris.

I appreciate you having me back.

I loved having you back.