March 1, 2021 Show with Dr. Robert E. Brunansky on “Ecclesiology: The Missing Doctrine in Evangelicalism”

1 view

March 2, 2021

March 1, 2021 Dr. ROBERT E. BRUNANSKY, pastor of Desert Hills Bible Church, Phoenix, AZ, who will address: “ECCLESIOLOGY: The MISSING DOCTRINE in EVANGELICALISM”

00:04: Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
00:10: Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions and now here's your host
00:59: Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
01:20: This is Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this first day of March 2021.
01:29: I'm thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest. This will be his second interview with us on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:36: His name is Dr. Robert E. Bernanski and he is pastor of Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona.
01:45: We are going to be discussing this time ecclesiology the missing doctrine in evangelism and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.
01:57: Robert E. Bernanski. Thanks a lot Chris. It's great to be here. I appreciate you having me back on the show.
02:03: It's my pleasure brother and send my greetings to a member of your church that I miss dearly.
02:12: I miss the days when he was coming out to Long Island to assist Dr. James R.
02:18: White of Alpha and Omega Ministries in the production of the recording and production of the debates that I orchestrated for over a decade on Long Island and I'm speaking of Rich Pierce who is the president of Dr.
02:34: White's ministry Alpha and Omega Ministries and just send my greetings to him and I hope we get an opportunity to see him soon.
02:42: I hope he's coming to the G3 conference this fall. I know that Dr. White is on the speaking roster again so I hope
02:49: Rich will be accompanying him. I'll let him know that you're hoping to see him there.
02:56: We put Rich to work helping out with our live stream and now he's back in the saddle teaching one of our adult fellowship groups so you know his gifts are well used at Desert Hills.
03:06: We're grateful to have him there. Amen and I'm very grateful for him and his friendship and I'm also grateful that he introduced me to you so it's been a pleasure having you on the program and I'm sure it will be a pleasure today and anybody who wants to hear and see an excellent message that Dr.
03:27: Bernanski delivered on the dividing line, that's James White's webcast when he filled in for Dr.
03:36: White, one of the occasions that he filled in, I don't know the exact title of it but it had to do with your congregation's refusal to shut down during the hysteria associated with the coronavirus pandemic and I think a lot of it had to do with masks and the statistical information if you could refresh my memory exactly what the theme was.
04:01: Yeah, so I've actually done a few guest appearances on the dividing line and the first one was back in May of last year and we did a discussion of the government's authority in the church and that was when we specifically talked about does the government have the authority to shut down the church at all under any circumstances but specifically in this context of what was happening with COVID back in May and pretty much every church that I was aware of was closed at the time we did that program except Desert Hills and the church where James White is an elder at Apologia and there were maybe a few others that I was aware of,
04:40: I'm sure there were ones I wasn't, but in the Greater Phoenix area, Sunday morning, Grove Pass Church is empty, totally shut down and so we talked about that and then back in December we had an episode called
04:52: To Mask or Not to Mask. That's probably the one I saw. Okay, yeah, and we talked in that episode about masks and some of the alleged science on masks and does the church have the authority to tell people to wear a mask, that they have to wear a mask to come to worship and yes, it was a fun topic to discuss and I got a lot of feedback on that and I think a lot of people were encouraged to be reminded that Christ is
05:23: Lord of the church. Amen. And I actually have my first doctor appointment with a new general practitioner that I hope will be my permanent doctor,
05:36: Dr. Joel Yeager, who is actually a guest on this program. He is a
05:41: Christian and a Reformed Christian and he does not believe in the myths of masks.
05:47: He does not require them for either his staff or his patients at his medical practice here in Pennsylvania.
05:56: So I'm looking forward to my first visit, not that I ever am really looking forward to a doctor's visit, but it will be refreshing though not to be scolded for not having my mask above my nose and other things that I've been experiencing from people who should know better or do know better and just are going with the flow of the leftist tyranny that's going on.
06:24: Absolutely. Yeah, the doctor that I go to here, he doesn't require you to wear a mask. They have special provisions made for maskless people like me, but I'm grateful that they recognize that, hey, you should have that option.
06:35: Great. Well, tell our listeners about Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona. Desert Hills Bible Church is a non -denominational
06:44: Bible -centered church and averaging maybe seven to eight hundred attendees a week and it's in the north part of Phoenix.
06:57: It's confessionally Reformed now, which we weren't last time I was on the program.
07:03: We updated our Statement of Faith and we were part of the Evangelical Free Church of America and due to the woke theology that has crept into that and various things that they were doing that were starting to compromise in areas of homosexuality and feminism.
07:22: Really? Yeah, yeah. We ended up leaving the EFCA and we shed the last vestiges of that at our
07:29: January Congregational meeting and adopted a Reformed confession that we wrote in -house because we're not
07:36: Sabbatarian, so there wasn't one that we really wanted to adopt wholesale. But, yeah, so that's what's going on at Desert Hills.
07:43: We've got a lot of great things that God is doing there. We're having a baptism service coming up this
07:50: Sunday night and I think our Community Life Pastor told me he's interviewed ten people for that baptism service, which is just fantastic.
07:57: We're praising God for that, for people that are coming to know the Lord and wanting to follow
08:03: Him and in obedience. Well, if anybody wants to know, I'm sorry, I started to speak before you were finished.
08:11: Continue. I was going to say, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel if you want. We're Desert Hills Bible Church on YouTube in Phoenix and sermons are posted every week.
08:21: We live stream at 10 a .m. Mountain Standard Time. So, a lot of archive.
08:28: I think we've got sermons going back six years. On the YouTube channel now, we've got a podcast. So, whatever podcast platform you use, our podcast should be available.
08:37: If you want to download the audio of the sermons, you can do that. Just search for Desert Hills Bible Church and you'll be able to find all of our content online.
08:47: And the website is DesertHillsChurch .com. DesertHillsChurch .com.
08:53: And going back, just briefly, I don't want to derail the topic today, but as far as the Evangelical Free Church goes, is it still pretty much very close to Baptistic local autonomy of congregations and independence where, even though some of the horrific things you just mentioned have crept into the denomination, are these things being imposed on all congregations in the denomination, or is there still a lot of liberty for independence in that denomination?
09:25: Yeah, they didn't kick us out. I mean, we left voluntarily. No, but what I mean is, are they imposing softer views on homosexuality on you or anybody else that was in the denomination?
09:38: No, they're not forcing the issue. You're welcome to stay in. And they would say, well, we don't affirm homosexuality, but when you put your name as the top sponsor for a conference advocating homosexuality in the church, you can say what you want, that you don't advocate it.
09:54: Right. You're sending your leadership to learn that. You're sending your leadership to think that way.
10:00: So eventually, either you're ignorant, you shouldn't be in leadership because you have no discernment, or you're trying to pull it in the back door and convince your leadership slowly over time that it's an acceptable practice, when it's not.
10:15: It's clearly sinful in Scripture. They don't impose it on the churches, not in any direct way.
10:21: There was nothing that they were trying to make us do as a church, but we were not comfortable donating our money to have that money go to sponsor a conference that's promoting homosexuality and religious syncretism and feminism.
10:36: So when I talked to the president of the USDA and the district superintendent for our district, the response was essentially, not only are we doing that, we're going to be doing more of it.
10:47: Wow. Well, I've got to do a program on that sometime, because I have had many friendships with people in the
10:54: Evangelical Free Church, and I don't know where they're standing right now, because this is all new information to me, all news to me.
11:03: Yeah, we've got a couple articles about it on our church website, on our blog. How about Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois?
11:15: Are they succumbing to this as well? You know, I'm not familiar. I don't really follow what's going on there at that school.
11:23: I'm assuming that is an official Evangelical Free school, isn't it? It is, yeah.
11:30: And then Trinity Western University up in Canada is also an official
11:37: EFCA school. And so, you know, I don't follow what's going on.
11:43: Even when we were part of the EFCA, you know, I graduated from Master's Seminary, and I follow much more closely what's going on there, or at the
11:50: Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, where I got my Ph .D., than I do at Trinity. I just never was affiliated with it.
11:57: I understand. Now, one more thing, because it's kind of crucial, since we brought it up. We don't want to be accused by anyone of giving false information, but when you say that a promotion of homosexuality is taking place at Evangelical Free Church conferences,
12:15: I know, and I'm not putting my seal of approval on even this.
12:21: I'm very opposed to even the idea of there being an existence of gay
12:28: Christians, quote unquote, who are chaste and celibate, or who marry people of the opposite sex, but still identify themselves as gay.
12:39: I'm very opposed to all of that. And I question the legitimacy of the regeneration of anybody who basically waves the white flag to the unnatural and abominable sin of homosexuality, and wears it as an identity, even if they claim chastity and celibacy.
13:05: So, I'm very opposed to that. But is that what they are promoting, or are they actually promoting the activity?
13:13: Well, just to make a careful distinction, the EFCA itself is not promoting homosexuality, but they're promoting conferences that other people are putting on that are promoting it.
13:26: Wow. And, yeah, so, you won't go, as far as I know, to EFCA 1 or an official
13:32: EFCA district conference and have homosexuals on the platform, things like that.
13:39: But they were the platinum sponsor for a conference called Mosaics two years ago, almost two years ago, because I guess there wouldn't have been any conferences last year because of COVID.
13:50: So, it would have been in 2019. And at this conference, they had sessions on homosexuality, and the leaders of these sessions come from churches where they have homosexuals on staff, where they have homosexual members of the church, they have position papers explaining why that is the right thing to do.
14:13: So, again, the EFCA would say, well, homosexuality is a sin and we don't support it.
14:19: But then the money that is being donated to the EFCA from EFCA churches is being used to sponsor conferences that contradict their statement.
14:27: Now, would it be as far as to people involved in the sexual sin who are living together or people who are actually, quote, quote, married to other men, men married to other men, women married to other women, and on and on we could go with the ways this depraved sin is manifested?
14:49: Yeah, yeah. So, I have a link, I think, on our church website to a position paper that one of the speakers has.
14:58: It's a church out in LA, and yeah, they have, they recognize gay marriage as legitimate.
15:06: You know, they have gay, quote, unquote, married couples in the church that serve in ministry.
15:11: Wow. So, it's not, I mean, it's not like, hey, like, I think any
15:17: Bible -believing Christian would say to a homosexual neighbor, we would love to minister the
15:23: Word of God to you and to call you to repentance. Yeah. And to disciple you and help you. You know, there's no hatred for homosexuals.
15:32: There's a hatred for homosexuality. Right. Just like there is for adultery or fornication or murder, you know, or any other sin, but the homosexual is somebody that's, you know, they're dead in their sins.
15:42: They need the gospel of Christ. Amen. If you really love a homosexual, you have to hate homosexuality.
15:50: Absolutely. If you have a biblical love for them, because you want to see them rescued from something that will not only likely end their lives on earth early, especially if they are male homosexual, but it will prevent them from enjoying eternal life with Christ.
16:08: So... Right. Yeah. 1 Corinthians 6, 9, right? Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God.
16:14: Right. Well, we've definitely got to do a show on this. Maybe I could get several EV3 or former
16:21: EV3 pastors to speak on this whole phenomenon. Yeah, and I'll tell you,
16:28: I've been... I've talked to, you know, a number of pastors in the EV3 denomination, and there's probably a half dozen churches that have left since we left, that they have seen what's going on, and they have either made their exit or they're in the process of doing that, and we're helping them work through that.
16:47: Because it is a... It's a day and a time when the church has to stand up and say, we're not okay with this.
16:55: You know, we're not going to compromise. And one of the things that was said to me by one of the FCA leaders was, well, how many false teachers would you be okay with being at a conference?
17:11: I couldn't even believe I was asked the question. Zero was the answer I gave. You know, why would we have any wolves come in among the sheep, welcoming them?
17:19: I mean, you can't help it, in some senses, when they're pretending to be sheep and you don't know. You know, there are wolves that are in disguise and you don't find out right away, but when they're advertising that fact, and we know that they're false teachers, why on earth would we ever partner with them?
17:37: So, you know, it's the level of compromise, because, you know, in their minds, we have to do this to fulfill our mission.
17:49: We have to do this to be successful and reach people with the gospel. If we don't join forces with these people, we're not going to have a seat at the table, so to speak.
17:57: So, just total capitulation and compromise. And so, yeah, so we left, and now we're just a non -denominational church with a
18:07: Reformed theological perspective, and God has blessed that.
18:13: You know, the church has been growing phenomenally ever since we left the denomination, and we're seeing
18:19: God at work in just awesome ways, people coming. You know, what usually happens is when somebody comes to the church, they find out they don't agree with you about some doctrine, and they leave, right?
18:30: Well, that's not what I believe. And what we're seeing is people coming, and they're saying, Oh, my goodness, I've never heard this before.
18:35: I didn't even realize this was in Scripture. I'd never thought this in my whole life. I need to learn more about this.
18:41: And it's just the work of the Spirit of God, where what throughout most of my ministry would have caused people to leave, people are going,
18:49: Wow, this is, that's what the Bible says. Tell me more about this. And it's remarkable.
18:55: Well, I definitely opened up a can of worms, didn't I, by asking a simple question. And I definitely do want to pursue that program on the
19:05: EV3 denomination. Absolutely. Like I said, if your listeners want more info, they can go to our website, and I've written a few things on there about that.
19:14: And I talked a little bit about some of the EFCA stuff on the first dividing line I was on, too, towards the end of the program.
19:21: Okay. Well, today we are discussing ecclesiology, the missing doctrine in evangelism, and ecclesiology is one of those big book -learning words, especially if someone is a new believer or not a believer at all, because we do have, in addition to seasoned
19:43: Christians and pastors and even theologians listening to the show regularly, we have very often very new
19:53: Christians, and sometimes even non -Christians, like Muslims or people from other religions who make their identity known to me via email or on social media, sometimes atheists and agnostics.
20:08: Praise God they're listening. Amen. Well, please define ecclesiology for us.
20:14: Yeah, well, first of all, I want to talk about ecclesiology in the context of evangelicalism, not evangelism.
20:20: Oh, okay, because I don't know if that was a typo on your part or mine.
20:26: It was probably a typo on my part. But, yes, ecclesiology is a missing doctrine in evangelicalism, and it does impact our evangelism significantly.
20:37: But to your question, what is ecclesiology, it comes from two Greek words, ekklesia, which means church, and logos, which means word, and so it's the study of the church, the doctrine of the church.
20:48: And, like you said, it's one of those big words, you know, a lot of people just tune it out when they hear a word like that because they think that's just for scholars and pastors and, you know, theologians.
21:00: But, as R .C. Sproul would say, everyone is a theologian, so ecclesiology is something that everyone needs to understand.
21:09: But, you know, it's not just a big word, it's an area of doctrine that I think if you wanted to cause most church members to tune out your sermon, just announce at the beginning,
21:19: I'm going to be talking about ecclesiology this morning in the sermon. You know, it's one of those areas that people really don't think about, they don't even really care about.
21:28: They just assume their pastor knows how the church should run, and it's not something that they should really be concerned about.
21:34: Now, obviously, the position that you take personally and that Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona takes on ecclesiology would determine the thrust or the direction that you're going with this subject,
21:54: I'm assuming. So, what is your personal ecclesiology? Well, you know, this area covers a wide range of topics, all right?
22:06: So, to define ecclesiology in summary would be very difficult to do, because, you know, for example, ecclesiology touches on what is the church itself.
22:18: What are the ordinances or sacraments of the church? Are they ordinances? Are they sacraments?
22:24: You know, paedo -baptism, paedo -communion, believer -baptism, and so forth. Church polity, elders, deacons, pastors, you know, leaders, all of that, the authority structure of the church, the purpose of the church gathering, and qualified church leadership, the role of the church in the community.
22:44: And so, there's just so many different areas that this touches on. But there would be, even though a
22:52: Reformed Baptist such as myself, and someone who is Baptistic, if I'm gathering your description correctly, of Desert Hills Bible Church, you're not officially a
23:05: Baptist church, but you are Baptistic, if I'm not mistaken. Correct. There would be differences in some important aspects of ecclesiology that we would have from our friends and brothers and sisters who are in Presbyterian and other paedo -Baptist
23:25: Reformed denominations. It would, even though there would be a lot of overlap, there would be differences on hierarchical structure, and the whole issue of autonomy of congregations and independence, and even sometimes it affects or involves the ordinances of the church, also known as sacraments by some.
23:51: So, to start out the show, why don't you at least give somewhat of a summary of how you would describe your ecclesiology?
24:02: Right. So, we are, like you mentioned, we're Baptistic, so we teach and practice believer baptism at the church.
24:10: We are a little bit different than probably a typical Baptist church in that we don't require someone to be baptized as a believer to be a member, if they are convinced in their own mind that they were baptized in a
24:25: Presbyterian church. Right, that would be something that the EV3 denomination holds to. Right, and so we're still comfortable if a
24:36: Presbyterian comes in and says, you know, I was baptized as an infant, and I'm a believer, and that's what
24:42: I believe. Okay, that's fine. We don't teach that, we don't practice that. They would have to understand we're not going to baptize your children in this church, but you're welcome to be a member of the church as long as you've been baptized in a way that accords with your understanding of that.
24:57: As far as the Lord's Supper, I mean, within a range. If you've been baptized in a Mormon church or something, that's not going to work.
25:04: But, you know, if you've been baptized in an Orthodox manner that is accepted as, you know, within the realm of the
25:11: Gospel. How about if you're somebody from the Salvation Army or some other group that doesn't believe in baptism at all?
25:19: No, if you don't believe in baptism at all, then that's a conversation that we need to have about what the
25:27: New Testament teaches, and you wouldn't be able to become a member of the church unless you agreed that you would be baptized. And, of course,
25:32: I should clarify, you don't believe in water baptism at all. Sure, right. The ordinance.
25:39: You know what's interesting about this? You know, we talk about, we have people coming from all different backgrounds and all different churches, and one of the things that I've seen that's in common with the new folks that are coming is a lot of them, or some of them anyways, haven't been baptized as believers.
25:59: Forever. And they've been in their previous churches for years, sometimes decades, as members.
26:08: And you ask, well, how come you've never been baptized? Well, my church just never made a big deal about it. I didn't, you know,
26:14: I don't, now I've been a believer so long and nobody ever approached me about it, it seems awkward or whatever to do it at this point.
26:21: And you see this breakdown in ecclesiology, just in this very simple illustration of how many people will come and their church never baptized them, never taught them about baptism, never encouraged them to be baptized, allowed them to be fully functioning members of the church without following Christ's command to be baptized.
26:41: It's shocking. And, you know, these are evangelical churches, and you would maybe not even know that, just to look at some of the things they say they believe.
26:52: But it's been surprising to the elders at our church at Desert Hills how many people are coming who have never been baptized.
27:01: And we have to go to our first break right now, if anybody has a question of their own on ecclesiology, the missing doctrine of evangelicalism.
27:10: Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.
27:17: As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the
27:23: USA. Please only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter, you disagree with your own pastor on something we are addressing today, or your own denomination, or you're even a pastor who disagrees with his fellow elders or denomination over something, you'd rather not identify yourself.
27:42: We fully understand that. Or, if it's a pastoral question that would lend you to want to remain anonymous, since we have a pastor on today, we tend to allow a broader scope of questions outside of a main topic, because sometimes our show may be the only opportunity that a listener has to actually ask a pastor about something.
28:07: But, obviously, those are areas where you can remain anonymous. But, if it's just a general question, a question on ecclesiology, on what the
28:17: Bible has to say about it, on history, etc., please give us your first name at least, your city and state and country of residence, at chrisarnson at gmail .com.
28:26: We'll be right back with Dr. Rob Bernanski of Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona, on Ecclesiology, the
28:33: Missing Doctrine, and Evangelicalism, right after these messages from our sponsors. Fellowship, now we're one life, one another, as we're walking in the light.
28:47: Hello, dear ones. My name is Justin Peters, and my friend, Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the
28:59: United States. We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th, through Saturday, October 2nd, on the theme,
29:12: Christ is Supreme Over All. I'll be speaking there, along with over 20 other speakers, including
29:18: John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Vody Balkam, Joel Beakey, and James White.
29:24: For details, visit g3conference .com. That's G, the number three, conference, dot com.
29:32: Please join Chris Arnzen and me, September 30th, through October 2nd, at G3 2021.
29:40: This is Justin Peters, reminding you that Christ is supreme over all. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
30:06: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
30:14: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the
30:19: NASB. I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina, and the
30:30: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White of the
30:36: First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
30:42: I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my
30:47: Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada, and the
30:54: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmerville, Long Island, New York, and the
31:03: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas, and the
31:12: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the
31:19: NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep
31:25: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?
31:31: Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
31:41: Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.
31:53: James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know
31:59: I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.
32:06: And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.
32:13: No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.
32:23: All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.
32:28: Jeffrey uses the finest in buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin tanned in Italy used for my
32:38: Nestle All -in -28 edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a
32:44: French tannery used to rebind a Reformation study Bible I used as a gift. The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.
32:55: Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather, making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.
33:06: For more details on Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to ptlbiblerebinding .com.
33:13: That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. I'm Dr.
33:31: Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
33:42: Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
33:49: It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim
34:07: Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.
34:14: I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.
34:22: For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
34:29: That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.
34:38: That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
34:57: Hello, my name is Anthony Eugenio and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, New York and also the host of the reformrookie .com
35:05: website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do, you can now find it on the
35:12: Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron radio in the search bar. You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.
35:23: Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show at any time, day or night.
35:29: Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.
35:39: Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the
35:45: Iron Sharpens Iron radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com
35:51: podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a
35:57: Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers. From Keach's Catechism and the
36:04: Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking
36:12: Biblical truth. And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689
36:18: London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, New York.
36:24: Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Iovineo and thanks for listening. Are you tired of looking for the silver bullet when it comes to health and wellness?
36:35: Are you frustrated with the medical status quo which masks symptoms and doesn't treat the root problem of sickness?
36:40: More importantly, are you looking for one of the most unique books ever written which gives you safe, low -cost, and proven options to regain your health the way
36:49: God intended? Then look no further than my new book, Health for All of Life, a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the nations.
36:56: Hi, I'm Jason Garwood and I'm a husband, father, pastor, and writer whose passion for helping people led me to write this book.
37:03: If 2020 has proven anything, it's that Big Pharma, Big Tech, and Big Government knows nothing about how to treat people naturally without poisoning them with synthetic drugs and experimental vaccines.
37:13: But what if God has given us a better way? What if we can take the Christian worldview found in the Bible and apply it to health and wellness?
37:20: My book, Health for All of Life, does just that. You can find this exciting new book on Amazon. Pick up a copy for yourself and for your friends and family.
37:28: Give the gift of health and don't be a dead end to truth. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is
37:36: Dr. Robert E. Brunansky, pastor of Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona.
37:41: We are discussing Ecclesiology, the Missing Doctrine in Evangelicalism.
37:47: If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.
37:53: ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Always give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
37:59: USA. And Dr. Rob, how is, in your opinion,
38:06: Ecclesiology a missing doctrine from Evangelicalism? There are a lot of things missing from modern day
38:15: Evangelicalism that give me great reason for sorrow and distress and horror at times.
38:27: And Ecclesiology typically would not be the first thing that pops into my head.
38:32: I'm not saying that I have a correct reaction to what's missing from Evangelicalism.
38:42: I'm just saying that that's not the immediate thing that would pop into my head. And there are also a lot of things that are in modern day
38:49: Evangelicalism that don't belong in any church or in the mind or the lips or the writings of anyone who professes to be a follower of Christ.
38:59: But if you could, why is this such an important issue to you and what's missing?
39:06: In what way is it missing? I think if you just look at the fundamental first question that should be asked in Ecclesiology is, what is the church?
39:19: And I don't think most people in Evangelicalism have a sufficient answer to that question.
39:24: I don't think they really know what the church is, what it's supposed to do, who is supposed to lead it, what is its function in the community, what is the point of the ordinances or the sacraments, who is qualified to be in leadership in the church, and what authority do they have, what authority do they not have, how do they submit to Christ, what is the role of Scripture in the church.
39:50: And if you think about this, I mean, where are most believers, where do they think they're getting discipled?
39:58: Where do they think they're learning about what it means to be a follower of Christ? Well, that's at the church.
40:04: And, of course, you know, a lot of cultural influences are coming in, maybe some people even unaware of how much they're being influenced by the culture, but the primary place where believers are taught what to think and how to think and about truth and about Christ is in the church, and if the church doesn't know who it is or why it exists or what it's supposed to do, you're going to have
40:28: Christians who are immature and who do not even understand their role or their calling as believers.
40:38: And I think that that has just become evident in so many problems that the church, that believers are facing as Christians, come because they don't understand the role of the church, and the church is not leading them and discipling them as it ought to, because the church has gone astray in understanding even its own identity.
41:03: Now, I brought this up, and guests have brought this up on my show in the past, but I think it bears repeating. Some of the most well -known and beloved figures in Christendom have failed miserably in this area, and the one that immediately comes to mind is the late
41:22: Billy Graham. There have been many people who have reported to me over the years how dismayed they were to discover that the
41:38: Billy Graham Association, now I don't know if any changes are taking place and if they are changes that will improve things or make them more unbiblical, but if you were to volunteer to be a counselor at a
41:56: Billy Graham crusade, to be waiting for those that come forward to confess their sin and to request
42:07: Christ to come into their lives, or as the very common evangelical slogan goes, invite
42:16: Jesus into their hearts, etc., you are forbidden as a counselor in the
42:24: Billy Graham Crusade Association to refer someone to a biblically sound church or any specific church other than the churches or religions from which these people came.
42:37: That is a very disturbing reality, you know, sending the person who is lost, likely because they have been lied to about God and about salvation their entire lives because of a false religion they were raised in, and you're sending them back to that religion?
42:59: I mean, it's utterly mind -boggling. But is this one of the ways where ecclesiology is absent from evangelicalism in that there is perhaps such an overreaction to putting salvation in the hands of a priesthood, in a sacerdotal system like the
43:23: Church of Rome, there very often is an overreaction to that, where the church has little to no importance at all other than a nice add -on and a nice icing on the cake and a nice thing that would improve our lives as Christians and benefit us, but they're not viewed as something that go hand -in -hand with becoming a born -again believer.
43:46: If you could pick up where I left off there. Yeah, well, first of all, I think when you think about things like the
43:52: Billy Graham Association, without a doubt, God has used that in the lives of many people, for them to hear the gospel and come to Christ, and there's no denying that people have been saved through that ministry.
44:08: But you look at a ministry like the Billy Graham Association or Campus Crusade, and the rise of all of these parachurch ministries that are completely independent of the local church, or even some group of churches that would oversee them to make sure that their doctrine and leadership and all of those areas of any ministry are biblically sound, and if they begin to veer off, that they come under the authority of that church that can correct them or discipline them as need be.
44:45: And, you know, this is a fairly modern phenomenon in evangelicalism to have this proliferation of parachurch ministries that have no connection to a local church.
45:01: I understand there are things like, you know, the Master's Seminary is a parachurch situation. You know, it's a standalone seminary, but it is under the authority of Grace Community Church.
45:11: There's a group of elders that help oversee that, or at least they did when I was there. I assume that's still the case.
45:17: And so, you know, I'm not against the Church having these ministries that are specialized for various things and have people from multiple churches that help with them, or an evangelistic agency or a missions agency, but don't they need to come under the umbrella of the
45:34: Church? What is the role of the Church, then, in the world if we're parceling all these things out and they're no longer part of the
45:41: Church? They're their own independent entity. And so this is what creates part of that crisis, because now where do you send people who get saved at a conference that isn't tied to a church?
45:56: How do you select the churches? And there's no qualified Board of Elders to come alongside and say, these are the churches in this city that are sound and biblical and these are the ones we're going to partner with.
46:07: In fact, Martin Lloyd -Jones famously would not participate in any of the Billy Graham Crusades in London for this very reason.
46:15: They weren't tied to the local church. And they were sending people to Roman Catholic churches or liberal churches in England that had completely lost the
46:27: Gospel. You know, Orthodox churches, Eastern Orthodox type churches, things like that. And so he refused to participate because there was no ecclesiology there.
46:37: And the message being sent is that the Church is secondary. Or, like you said, it's just a nice add -on.
46:44: And we see this. I mean, the last year has shown this so frequently as people have had to make statements that the
46:52: Church is essential. That should be assumed. But you can't assume it anymore because the ecclesiology, it's not just bad.
47:00: It's nonexistent for people. They don't even think about it. It's not in their, it's not anything that they ever consider.
47:07: They go to church, if they go, primarily because either they're supposed to, they've done that by tradition, they have friends there, or they need that, you know, spiritual boost to get them through the week.
47:18: But there's no concept of a covenant commitment to a church and the role of the church, the importance of the church, and the life of the
47:26: Christian, and the role of the church in the community is completely gone. And then you have, yeah, you have this situation where now the ministries that are well -known aren't even connected to churches, and the church is essentially playing second fiddle or in the backseat, but it's the
47:41: Church that Christ said He would build. And, you know, it's the Church that's the pillar and the support of the truth.
47:49: But that has been jettisoned. And it's created a crisis where, you know, what is the percentage of professing believers now that have been doing online church for almost a year, and they say they have no plans ever to return to attending church in person again?
48:04: Well, you know something? Churches like that, it's probably better that they permanently shut their doors then.
48:11: Yeah, no, I don't disagree with you. But the percentage of people that would think that way is alarming, within evangelicalism, that think they are actually being part of a church and not attending a church.
48:27: They're not assembling, but they're part of the assembly. Yeah, it's interesting that even in the secular world, you have 12 -step groups.
48:39: I have my big problems with 12 -step groups. I am a repentant former drunk myself, and I know that many people have been rescued out of addictions through 12 -step groups, in spite of the inconsistencies and the falsehoods and some even dangerous things that go on in many of them.
49:08: But even they recognize that it is foolish for someone who is struggling with an addiction to think they can just do this maverick, lone wolf, lone ranger style, and just to be on their own and rely upon their own willpower and nothing else.
49:32: Even they, in the secular realm, realize that that's a recipe or a blueprint for suicide.
49:41: Absolutely. And here we have Christians teaching other Christians. Yeah, it'd be a great thing if you found a local church.
49:49: But, you know, hey, it's not necessary, and even if there are
49:54: Christians that would never say that, they definitely demonstrate that they believe it is unessential because of the way they live.
50:02: They bounce around from church to church to church, never committing to any of them, and some never going to any of them.
50:11: And you even have some very well -known evangelists and apologists that have traveled the world and have never made known or clear of their connection with a local church and being under the oversight of elders, etc.
50:31: I mean, it has been coming out that that is likely one of the main reasons why the downfall of the late
50:43: Ravi Zacharias was kept secret for so long.
50:48: There was no real connection to the authority of a local church. And that's a great point, because when we're saying this, we're not trying to interpret the
51:04: Church in some kind of Roman Catholic way as the arbiter of all people's salvation or that type of thing, but you recognize the spiritual danger that it is for people not to understand what the
51:16: Church is and why it's significant for them as believers. Or you have people that will go to just about any church as long as they like the music or the people, but what the
51:25: Church believes, what it teaches, who's leading it, all of these things are secondary.
51:32: Or if they're even being considered at all, as people think about that.
51:39: And so then there's no accountability, there's no sound doctrine. How are you growing as a believer?
51:45: In fact, we're going to have to pick it up right where you asked that question when we returned.
51:50: We have to go to a midway break. If anybody wants to join us on the air, again, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
51:58: We ask of your patience, because this is the longer break in the middle of the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1
52:04: FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer middle break, because they air their own public service announcements and other local things required of them by the
52:13: FCC, while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials. So please use this time wisely, write down as much of the information as possible for as many of our advertisers as possible, so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers to make them happy, to make them realize that they should remain our advertisers, and therefore, subsequently,
52:38: God willing, we as a radio show will remain on the air for a longer future, because we absolutely, positively depend on the funding that comes through our advertisers to exist.
52:50: So please try to write down as much of the information provided by our advertisers as possible, and when you can't patronize them, when you can't actually buy products or use services or visit churches, they're too far away, at least respond to the ads by thanking these advertisers for sponsoring this show, if indeed you love the show and don't want it to disappear.
53:09: Just contact them in the way that they provide in their ads and thank them for sponsoring
53:15: Iron Trip and Zion Radio. And don't forget to send in questions to Chris Orensen at gmail .com or Dr.
53:20: Rob Bernanski. Don't go away, we are going to be right back, right after these messages from our sponsors.
53:29: O Hail the Power of Jesus' Name This is
53:37: Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
53:43: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support
53:48: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our
54:05: Lord Jesus Christ. And of course the end for which we strive is the glory of God.
54:11: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
54:24: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
54:34: Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org That's gracechurchatfranklin .org
54:42: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our
54:48: Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.
55:01: We are excited to announce another new member of the
55:11: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family. Banu Gadi, owner of three
55:17: New York pharmacies, Lee's Drugs of Floral Park, Long Beach Chemists, and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead.
55:26: Banu Gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic.
55:33: Please contact Dr. Gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media.
55:43: To find the pharmacy nearest you, call 516 -354 -2000.
55:49: That's 516 -354 -2000. Or order online at leesdrugsrx .com.
55:57: That's L -E -E -S -drugsrx .com. Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program.
56:06: Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ. My name is Banu Gadi. I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through.
56:17: In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the
56:22: Lord like this, I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made, and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.
56:30: He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what
56:35: God has designed, and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust
56:44: God's design. And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.
56:52: When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be pretty serious.
57:01: Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great
57:07: God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.
57:14: Thank you. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the
57:28: Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York.
57:48: I've had the privilege of opening God's word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my
57:57: New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the
58:07: Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.
58:12: I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,
58:18: Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
58:26: That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.
58:33: That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
58:51: Was your business shut down during the COVID -19 pandemic, depriving you of earning any money, causing you to default on your rent as you try to survive without income?
59:03: Maybe you've had to close your doors for good. The good news, you thought, was that you purchased business interruption insurance as a part of your business liability policy with a major insurance company who told you they are a good neighbor, or that you would be in good hands.
59:22: You filed a claim only to be told that it was denied due to the Pandemic Exclusion Clause.
59:29: The Pandemic Exclusion? Since 2006, most insurance companies added this clause to enable them to deny your income loss claims in the event of a worldwide pandemic.
59:41: Do not give up. No matter what state you live in, call Buttafuoco &
59:46: Associates now at 1 -800 -669 -4878.
59:52: Buttafuoco & Associates is a part of a large multi -district litigation, and they are working with lead counsel to bring what they believe will be a successful lawsuit for these claims.
01:00:04: It is the best way for you to proceed. There's absolutely no risk to you. You do not have to pay them out of pocket, and there is no fee unless you recover on your claim.
01:00:15: You need to call 1 -800 -669 -4878 right now.
01:00:21: Trust the law firm where the attorneys at one of the largest business firms on Long Island, New York are sending their own clients for representation during this lawsuit.
01:00:32: Buttafuoco & Associates, here to help business owners rebuild their lives in the wake of the pandemic.
01:00:40: Call 1 -800 -669 -4878. Hello, dear ones, my name is
01:01:07: Justin Peters, and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the
01:01:18: United States. We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd, on the theme,
01:01:31: Christ is supreme over all. I'll be speaking there, along with over 20 other speakers, including
01:01:37: John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Vody Balkam, Joel Beeky, and James White.
01:01:43: For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com.
01:01:51: Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October 2nd at G3 2021.
01:01:58: This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.
01:02:05: Fellowshiping with the family. Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a
01:02:23: Christian perspective. Try World Now at no charge for 90 days by going to getworldnow .com.
01:02:31: That's getworldnow .com. I rely on World because I trust the reporting. I gain insight from the analysis, and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.
01:02:42: I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's simply not found in other media outlets.
01:02:51: Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.
01:02:58: This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio, and the fully shareable content of World Digital.
01:03:06: There's no obligation and no credit card required. Visit getworldnow .com
01:03:12: today. Also check out World News Group's podcast, The World and Everything in It, at wng .org
01:03:21: forward slash podcast. That's W for World, N for News, G for Group, dot org forward slash podcast.
01:03:35: Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.
01:03:41: Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?
01:03:50: Becoming a parent. My name is A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.
01:03:58: I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.
01:04:08: That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents
01:04:14: God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.
01:04:26: Please visit us at truthloveparent .com. Are you tired of looking for the silver bullet when it comes to health and wellness?
01:04:35: Are you frustrated with the medical status quo which masks symptoms and doesn't treat the root problem of sickness?
01:04:41: More importantly, are you looking for one of the most unique books ever written which gives you safe, low -cost, and proven options to regain your health the way
01:04:49: God intended? Then look no further than my new book, Health for All of Life, a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the nations.
01:04:56: Hi, I'm Jason Garwood, and I'm a husband, father, pastor, and writer whose passion for helping people led me to write this book.
01:05:03: If 2020 has proven anything, it's that big pharma, big tech, and big government knows nothing about how to treat people naturally without poisoning them with synthetic drugs and experimental vaccines.
01:05:14: But what if God has given us a better way? What if we can take the Christian worldview found in the Bible and apply it to health and wellness?
01:05:21: My book, Health for All of Life, does just that. You can find this exciting new book on Amazon. Pick up a copy for yourself and for your friends and family.
01:05:29: Give the gift of health and don't be a dead end to truth. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
01:05:38: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
01:05:46: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
01:05:52: I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the
01:05:57: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the
01:06:05: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sulay Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the
01:06:15: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Samson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the
01:06:22: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the
01:06:30: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of East Fort Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the
01:06:38: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens, Jr. of the
01:06:43: Church in Friendship in Hopley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
01:06:49: Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?
01:06:58: Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:07:07: Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.
01:07:18: Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.
01:07:26: He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
01:07:34: You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the
01:07:40: Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
01:07:53: Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,
01:07:58: Christ -exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.
01:08:06: That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.
01:08:15: Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And don't forget, folks, that solid -ground -books .com
01:08:25: is a premier, a primary, a vital sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:08:31: Without the funding that comes in from their advertising campaigns, we would likely go off the air.
01:08:38: They are that important to us. Barring a miracle from God financially, we would not be able to sustain this program without them.
01:08:47: So, why not say thanks to Solid Ground Christian Books for sponsoring this program by purchasing books from them whenever possible and as often as you can and as generously as you can.
01:09:03: The books that they publish are from both the past and the present, and it's nothing but the finest in Christian literature.
01:09:12: You can never go wrong purchasing something from them because very much discernment and research goes into what books are published and what books are not published or brought back into print.
01:09:31: It is just a ministry and a publisher that I can recommend and frequently do recommend without hesitation, even before they were a sponsor of this program, because all of their material is nothing but the finest in Reformed theological literature.
01:09:51: So, remember, solid -ground -books .com solid -ground -books .com
01:09:59: and remember that they should be your first stop when you are looking for gifts for those that you love, whether they are saved, whether they are lost.
01:10:11: Remember that the Lord very often uses good, solid, biblically -based
01:10:17: Christian books to lead the lost to salvation in Him. So, don't forget about your lost loved ones when you are purchasing books from solid -ground -books .com,
01:10:28: but also further equip yourself and edify yourself and replenish your own library.
01:10:34: And remember, you're not going to be just doing solid -ground -books .com
01:10:40: a favor when you are purchasing books from them, and you're not only going to be doing us a favor by keeping one of our key advertisers happy, you're going to be doing yourself an enormous favor, and anyone for whom you are purchasing gifts from solid -ground -books .com,
01:10:59: because of the enormous value of everything that they publish. So, remember, solid -ground -books .com.
01:11:07: Always remember to mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Trip and Zion Radio whenever you make a purchase from them.
01:11:15: And also, folks, I want to thank everyone in this audience who has been purchasing books from solid -ground -books .com,
01:11:27: because Mike Gaydosch, the founder of solid -ground -books .com, has been reporting back to me, just thrilled with the number of sales he is making from our listeners who specifically mention this program as their source for discovering solid -ground -books .com,
01:11:45: and he is just totally thrilled with the new names that he has never heard from before, and the new names of people who have never purchased from him before, in addition to faithful customers he has from Iron Trip and Zion Radio's audience.
01:12:03: So, please never forget solid -ground -books .com, and always mention
01:12:08: Chris Arnzen of Iron Trip and Zion Radio. And just a couple of other announcements before we return to our discussion with Rob Bernanski on Ecclesiology, The Missing Doctrine of Evangelicalism.
01:12:23: Folks, if you love this show, and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to IronTripandZionRadio .com,
01:12:31: click Support, then click Click to Donate Now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in doing so, and if you prefer snail mail, mailing in a check via the
01:12:42: United States Postal Service, as some do prefer, well, when you click
01:12:49: Support at IronTripandZionRadio .com, a physical mailing address will appear on the screen where you can mail checks made payable to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.
01:12:59: If you want to advertise with us, we certainly could use your advertising dollars if indeed you are promoting something that is compatible with what we believe.
01:13:07: You don't have to leave identically with me to advertise on this show, but you need to be promoting something that is at the very least compatible with what
01:13:13: I believe. So send me an email if you are in that category and put advertising in the subject line at ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.
01:13:23: Please, folks, remember, I don't want my listeners siphoning money away from the regular giving that they're accustomed to to their own local church where they are a member in order to give to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.
01:13:34: In other words, don't punish your own church financially by blessing us financially. And also, if you are really struggling to survive and make ends meet, don't put your family in financial peril or jeopardy by giving to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.
01:13:49: Those two things are commands of God in Scripture, providing for your church and your family. And while providing for Iron Trip and Zion Radio is not a command of God in Scripture, if you are blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, you have extra money, you have extra money that you use for recreational purposes or collecting interest in the bank, well, please help us with some of that money, if not all of it, to remain on the air, if indeed you love the show and don't want it to disappear.
01:14:17: Go to irontripandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now. Finally, if you are without a
01:14:24: Bible -believing, theologically sound church in your area, wherever you may live on the planet
01:14:32: Earth, I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, and I may be able to help you find a church.
01:14:39: Sometimes I have helped people in our audience all over the globe find churches right around the block from where they live.
01:14:45: They didn't even know these churches existed, or they didn't know that the churches that they pass by every day on their way to work or anywhere else, they didn't even know these churches were biblically sound.
01:14:56: So I may be able to help you as well, no matter where you live in the world.
01:15:01: So send me an email to chrisarmsen at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line, whether it's for you, whether it's for a church when you're going on vacation that you want to visit, or if it's for a church for a family member, a loved one, an acquaintance that you know of who is without a church home.
01:15:23: Send me an email to chrisarmsen at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr.
01:15:32: Rob Bernanski on our theme today, Ecclesiology, the
01:15:37: Missing Doctrine in Evangelicalism. That's chrisarmsen at gmail .com
01:15:44: and always give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence, if outside of the
01:15:51: USA. We have a listener, Dr.
01:15:56: Rob, that has a question that is a question that's also arisen in my own mind from time to time.
01:16:03: I don't know if I'm 100 % settled with the way Reformed Baptists conduct this particular area of Christian life.
01:16:15: I don't know if you have a different view or practice. But the listener writes in anonymously.
01:16:23: I'm writing anonymous because I don't want to unnecessarily offend my own pastors and fellow members at the church where I am a member.
01:16:31: But even though I agree with the vast majority of all teachings from the
01:16:38: London Baptist Confession of Faith and all teachings and practices that I have heard and seen observed by Reformed Baptists, one thing puzzles me.
01:16:48: I know that Reformed Baptists typically, perhaps never, will visit people in the hospital or a nursing home with the
01:16:57: Lord's Supper, and I don't understand why, if this supper is so very important and has actual spiritual significance and value, rather than it being strictly a memorial or symbols.
01:17:13: I know that just one person bringing a hospital patient or a nursing home resident the
01:17:20: Lord's Supper may not be in accordance with it being a church ordinance, but if you brought a handful of people with you or more, of course in areas where you're able to,
01:17:32: I'm speaking of if they open up the availability in hospitals and nursing homes where the coronavirus has had them shut down and closed to visitor entrance, shouldn't we be able to bring the
01:17:49: Lord's Supper to people who would love to receive it, but through no fault of their own are unable to?
01:17:57: Yeah, that's a great question, and it has, I think, even a little bit more urgency to it, given how much church participation has been online.
01:18:08: We talk about ecclesiology. I remember watching one live stream from a church, and the pastor said, we're going to do the
01:18:17: Lord's Supper, so get a piece of bread and grape juice, and if you don't have that, just grab anything you've got lying around the house.
01:18:29: One of the cats. Yeah, and it's like, well, that's not exactly the
01:18:36: Lord's Supper. So I think that there has to be some boundaries here, but I think about people that are in the hospital.
01:18:47: There's the norm that's given in Scripture, right? It says in 1 Corinthians 11 repeatedly, when you gather, when you come together, and so the expectation is that the
01:18:57: Lord's Supper is not something that believers are going to do in their homes by themselves or just with their families, but it is something that has to be done when the church gathers for worship under the leadership of qualified elders slash pastors, and it's going to be done in an orderly way for the benefit of the body and for the glory of Christ.
01:19:20: But I think that when we have these norms, we have to recognize that the fact that there's a norm means that there may be situations where there are exceptions, and is there a biblical precedent for doing something that's outside the norm as close as you can to it, but without violating
01:19:44: Scripture, but to serve the person who, as the questioner said, through no fault of their own, just in God's providence, his purpose for that person was to suffer and to be in a care facility or a nursing home or wherever it might be.
01:20:01: And I think if you look at how Jesus interacted in various situations, and even in the
01:20:08: Old Testament, David going to get the showbread that only the priests were supposed to eat, there does seem to be some biblical precedent that under duress, there can be exceptions made when the good of the person would be served and the law of God not overturned in what it's intending to accomplish.
01:20:29: And so in that case, I would think that, as the listener said, it shouldn't just be somebody in a nursing home grabs a quart of orange juice and a bagel and calls that the
01:20:39: Lord's Supper. That would be, I think, to defame the Lord's Supper. Well, I'm assuming that,
01:20:45: I don't know this for a fact, but I'm assuming that you wouldn't even be comfortable with them grabbing the proper elements on their own.
01:20:52: Absolutely. Like grape juice, wine. Right. Right. Wine, the fruit of the vine, grape juice in some circles.
01:21:01: Bread, unleavened bread. But I don't think there's anything that would prevent a pastor slash elder from bringing along a deacon and maybe another church member, even his wife, to come and read
01:21:18: Scripture with the person who is there and gather together as an expression of the body for somebody who can't physically get to church.
01:21:28: They are physically incapable. Some just are choosing not to. That's a different situation. But they're physically unable to be there.
01:21:34: There's nothing magical about the building where the church generally gathers or the number of people that are there.
01:21:42: You can have a small group. As long as you have the authority of the elders, you have somebody there who is administering the sacrament in a way that is under the authority of the church and under the authority of the elders.
01:21:56: I think that compassion would dictate that that would be a good thing to do for people who are suffering and unable to come to the gathering of the church for the
01:22:06: Lord's Supper. And so that's our practice. I've done that with folks at Desert Hills.
01:22:13: In fact, I actually have a little portable communion kit. I guess you could buy anything.
01:22:22: But it's got like four glass cups and a little bread tray in there, and you can pass it around and all that stuff.
01:22:29: Well, that's very refreshing. I think it's an act of compassion. When you look at how the
01:22:36: Lord treated these things, these ordinances, these sacraments are for our good.
01:22:46: They're made for us, to benefit us, and we have to keep that in mind. Obviously, there still has to be order.
01:22:53: There's norms that need to be followed, but compassion also needs to be factored into that and that the
01:22:58: Lord does desire compassion and not a sacrifice. And so, again, obviously you say that, and you could potentially open up a
01:23:09: Pandora's box and people in an unruly manner just decide they're going to take the Lord's Supper because they have two friends over or something.
01:23:17: That's not what I'm saying. I think you need to have the church, the elders need to know about it. They need to be in agreement that this is a situation where this is called for.
01:23:26: There should be an elder present. If there's the opportunity to have more than one elder, an elder and a deacon, I think that's ideal.
01:23:33: And then some small group that has gathered together to represent the body of Christ gathering there in that person's home or in that care facility.
01:23:42: Thank you, Anonymous. And I don't know if you are a first -time questioner or not, but if you are, let me know via email and give me your full name and mailing address, because if you are a first -time questioner, you have won a free
01:23:55: New American Standard Bible, compliments of the publishers of the NASB, and compliments of CVBBS .com,
01:24:03: Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who actually ship the Bible out to you. Thanks again for the excellent question.
01:24:10: Thank you, it's a good question. So tell us more about these areas where you think there is a dreadful lack, perhaps a dangerous lack of concern or a dreadfully low level of importance given, if any, to the function of the
01:24:33: Church, the ecclesiology of the Church when it comes to the modern evangelical realm. Yeah, one area that I think is a glaring issue is the area of qualified leadership.
01:24:47: First of all, who should lead the Church? And so in a lot of churches, you have this sharp distinction that is drawn between elders and quote, unquote, the pastor.
01:24:58: And you get somebody who has a lot of authority without any accountability.
01:25:05: And that is a recipe for disaster for the quote, unquote, the pastor, the senior pastor, as well as for the members of the
01:25:15: Church who put a lot of weight into just one man and his thoughts, his opinion, his life.
01:25:22: And so you have just a crisis of leadership in the Church. And then what is the example that's being set for the body of Christ?
01:25:33: How do you, if you have a biblical paradigm that elders, pastors, et cetera, overseers, it's the same office, just different descriptions of what they're to do, who fills these roles?
01:25:47: And how do we determine that? And so, you know, one of the things that's happening at Desert Hills is we just hired someone to come on and lead our young adult ministries for college students and young adults and help oversee the folks we have in the student ministries.
01:26:06: And we really love this guy that we hired and we're excited about him coming.
01:26:12: But should he be a pastor slash elder? We don't know him that well.
01:26:18: We've interviewed him a number of times. He's been out, we've met him in person and we've heard him teach and things like that.
01:26:24: We've done our due diligence in the background. But our elder board thought, you know, we should take it slow before we make him a pastor slash elder so we can see his life in ministry because you're putting the leaders out for your church as examples for the congregation to follow.
01:26:42: And so it is so critical that as the church, we understand what are the qualifications of leadership in the pastoral offices?
01:26:49: And then do the men that we are putting in these positions of leadership, do they actually meet the qualifications?
01:26:58: And one of the difficulties about that is because that often doesn't happen. We perpetuate a situation where we can't find enough qualified men to serve.
01:27:09: And so there's sometimes a rush to just fill a spot because you need someone to run this ministry.
01:27:17: There's other ways to get at that besides making people elders. We shouldn't be elders or pastors, whatever terminology a particular church wants to use.
01:27:28: Or even the deacons, are they qualified or are they just good at some task of service?
01:27:36: And it's a clear scriptural principle, right, that we become like those who lead us. We become like our teacher.
01:27:42: That's the goal, that when you're fully discipled, you'll become like your teacher. Well, is the church putting people in those positions of leadership that we would want our churches to reflect?
01:27:54: If everyone in the church, all the members of the church were just like your elder board, would that be a good thing?
01:28:03: And there are situations where it's clear that the people who are leading aren't qualified. And, you know, even here in town, we see churches that have pastors that are women.
01:28:14: Well, immediately right off the bat, you don't have qualified leadership at that point because the
01:28:19: New Testament is clear that it is men who are to be the pastors and elders of the church.
01:28:25: Women are not to be the ones of spiritual authority over the men in the church or be teaching
01:28:30: God's Word to the men of the church, that that responsibility falls to the men.
01:28:37: And then you have, when that happens, you have the feminization of the church. And the church ends up being a place, you know, where they have all kinds of things that are done that have nothing to do with Christ or the gospel to try to attract men.
01:28:54: You know, maybe you've seen this in some churches. You know, all the sports leagues or all the, you know, different men's events that are, in a sense, almost secular in nature but just part of the church to try to get men to want to be involved because the church has become so feminized because there aren't qualified men that have stepped up to lead that you end up with this situation that just ends up perpetuating itself where you, then you never have men that can lead because they're not qualified.
01:29:19: In fact, I have been in an event, and I won't name the individual or the specific teams, professional teams that he has, where he has served as a chaplain, but he, an event that I was at, warned churches about not being very quick to invite a professional athlete that they hear about who has made some kind of profession of faith in Christ.
01:29:57: He warned them against being very quick to invite such people to speak at their churches, etc.,
01:30:03: because he has seen far too many of these men make false professions and wind up falling away.
01:30:12: And people, many Christians, churches, and leaders in churches and parachurch groups are so enamored with celebrity that they think that more people, it's a pragmatism kind of a thing, more people are going to come to the
01:30:32: Lord if we get celebrities and famous people get up there from the pulpit and begin to speak.
01:30:37: So we've got to get all these famous people that are either athletes or actors or musical performers, whatever they may be.
01:30:47: And then it turns out they become an embarrassment to the body of Christ because they totally abandon their faith a few years later or are just unchurched or not in a proper biblically sound church and wind up living very horrible lives in many ways.
01:31:03: Well, you think about this whole thing that happened with Kanye, right? Well, it was a couple of years ago.
01:31:08: Right. Or last year, you know, and if he got saved, he needed to be discipled and not be leading worship and, you know, speaking and being invited to all of these things.
01:31:21: But that's the point at which, yeah, you are a celebrity and you have influence because of those things, but you don't have the character yet to be in that position of leadership.
01:31:32: And you have to be discipled. And, you know, it doesn't, First Timothy 3, not a new convert. And there's a reason for that.
01:31:39: That, you know, we don't hold up new converts as the beacons of the faith that we want others to follow.
01:31:47: We want godly men to have a track record and who are sound in doctrine. And they may not be flashy or worldly impressive, but if you follow their life and doctrine, you will do well.
01:32:00: And if you follow the life and doctrine of some of these celebrities, you're not going to do well. And Charles Spurgeon even in the 19th century warned against this.
01:32:09: That's right. Yeah, and, you know, but what you said is it's this pragmatism, right?
01:32:16: So we don't, because we don't have, we don't have biblical principles of what the church is, who's supposed to lead it, and what it's supposed to do.
01:32:25: What do we fall back to then? What guides that? What works?
01:32:31: And the only measuring stick we have for what works is the short term. Because none of us are going to live long enough to see the long -term effects of the ministries that we've had in our families and the churches where God has placed us.
01:32:44: We have to serve by faith. And so we're judging what works based on how many people showed up this week versus last week.
01:32:55: And, you know, did that work? Well, that doesn't tell you anything about the effectiveness of your ministry, what happened over a course of one week.
01:33:02: That's something that, that's why we look back at men like Calvin, right? We say these were faithful, godly men because we see the effect of their ministry 500 years later.
01:33:11: And we see the way that God used that. And so we have to act based on principles.
01:33:18: But, you know, there's a church here where the question that they ask continuously is if our church were to disappear tomorrow, would the community notice and would they miss us?
01:33:32: Well, where does that come from in the New Testament? You know, I mean, if anything, you read through the New Testament, the community was trying to get rid of the church.
01:33:40: They weren't thankful the church was there. They were upset that the church was there because of the preaching of the gospel.
01:33:48: And so you begin to ask these questions because you don't understand what the church is or what it's supposed to do.
01:33:54: You don't understand its leadership structure or its mission. And now you have all of these people who think their primary job as believers is to impress their neighbors, to be missed if they were to disappear.
01:34:10: And so then the church descends into all kinds of social justice type of things and, you know, the woke theology and seeker -sensitive movements and, you know, all kinds of money and time being spent on worldly type of endeavors just for the sake of wanting to be pleasing to the unbelievers in their community.
01:34:37: And then you don't have any discipleship going on in the church at all because the whole purpose of the church ends up being just to attract unbelievers.
01:34:48: I remember somebody that we knew who was going to a church and was frustrated that they weren't being fed the
01:34:57: Word of God in the church. And they were rebuked by their church leadership for that feeling of frustration because they were supposed to just feed themselves and disciple themselves and the church was a place for the unbeliever to come.
01:35:10: And it was very selfish of them, they were told, to desire to be fed the Word of God when they gathered with the church.
01:35:19: And that's not an uncommon type of situation in evangelicalism today where the church is attractional for the world and there is no sound ecclesiology and people are starving to death spiritually and then they feel guilty about the fact that they don't want to be starving to death.
01:35:36: And it's ruining people's spiritual lives. Well, we have to go to our final break right now if anybody wants to join us.
01:35:46: On the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:35:53: chrisarnson at gmail .com As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the
01:36:01: USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:36:07: We'll be right back with Dr. Rob Bernanski and more of our discussion on Ecclesiology, the
01:36:12: Missing Doctrine of Evangelicalism right after these messages from our sponsors.
01:36:20: When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
01:36:25: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
01:36:33: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the
01:36:38: NASB. I'm Dr. Joe Moorcraft, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and the
01:36:46: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Anthony Uvino, founder of thereformrookie .com
01:36:53: and co -founder of New York Apologetics, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
01:36:59: I'm Pastor Tim Bushong of Syracuse Baptist Church in Syracuse, Indiana, and the NASB is my
01:37:05: Bible of choice. I'm Eli Ayala, founder of Revealed Apologetics and staff member with the
01:37:10: Historical Bible Society, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Josh Miller of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and the
01:37:19: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Joe Bianchi, president of Calvi Press Publishing in Greenville, South Carolina, and the
01:37:29: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jake Korn of Switzerland Community Church in Switzerland, Florida, and the
01:37:38: NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep
01:37:44: Iron Trumpet's Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?
01:37:50: Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Trumpet's Iron Radio.
01:38:00: Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.
01:38:11: Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.
01:38:19: Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.
01:38:26: It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.
01:38:34: We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play and together.
01:38:40: Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.
01:38:46: Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402 or visit lindbrookbaptist .org.
01:38:56: That's lindbrookbaptist .org. Here's what
01:39:02: Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, had to say about Iron Trump and Zion Radio recently.
01:39:08: Good to be back. Chris, I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.
01:39:18: Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.
01:39:25: We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.
01:39:31: Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Trump and Zion Radio airing live Monday through Friday 4 to 6 p .m.
01:39:38: Eastern Time at irontrumpandzionradio .com This is
01:39:52: Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
01:39:57: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support
01:40:02: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our
01:40:19: Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.
01:40:25: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:40:39: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
01:40:48: Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org That's gracechurchatfranklin .org
01:40:56: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our
01:41:02: Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.
01:41:18: We are excited to announce another new member of the
01:41:24: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family. Banu Gadi, owner of three
01:41:29: New York pharmacies, Lee's Drugs of Floral Park, Long Beach Chemists, and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead.
01:41:38: Banu Gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic.
01:41:45: Please contact Dr. Gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media.
01:41:55: To find the pharmacy nearest you, call 516 -354 -2000.
01:42:01: That's 516 -354 -2000. Or order online at leesdrugsrx .com.
01:42:10: That's L -E -E -S drugs r -x dot com. Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program.
01:42:19: Fellowship with one another As we're walking in the light
01:42:26: Hello dear ones, my name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the
01:42:39: United States. We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme
01:42:51: Christ is Supreme Over All. I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers including
01:42:58: John McArthur, Phil Johnson, Vody Balkam, Joel Beakey, and James White.
01:43:03: For details, visit G3 Conference dot com. That's G, the number three, conference dot com.
01:43:12: Please join Chris Arnzen and me Saturday, September 30th through October 2nd at G3 2021.
01:43:19: This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is Supreme Over All. Fellowshiping with a family
01:43:36: Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:43:43: I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
01:43:50: Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone.
01:43:58: Since 1987, the family owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available
01:44:03: Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices. Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available because frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time.
01:44:16: That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.
01:44:29: Their website is www .cvbbs .com Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you, the
01:44:40: Church, and to Christ. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at www .cvbbs
01:44:46: .com That's www .cvbbs .com Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:44:56: Are you tired of looking for the silver bullet when it comes to health and wellness?
01:45:04: Are you frustrated with the medical status quo which masks symptoms and doesn't treat the root problem of sickness?
01:45:10: More importantly, are you looking for one of the most unique books ever written which gives you safe, low -cost, and proven options to regain your health the way
01:45:18: God intended? Then look no further than my new book Health for All of Life, a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the nations.
01:45:25: Hi, I'm Jason Garwood, and I'm a husband, father, pastor, and writer whose passion for helping people led me to write this book.
01:45:32: If 2020 has proven anything, it's that big pharma, big tech, and big government knows nothing about how to treat people naturally without poisoning them with synthetic drugs and experimental vaccines.
01:45:43: But what if God has given us a better way? What if we can take the Christian worldview found in the Bible and apply it to health and wellness?
01:45:50: My book, Health for All of Life, does just that. You can find this exciting new book on Amazon. Pick up a copy for yourself and for your friends and family.
01:45:58: Give the gift of health and don't be a dead end to truth. Every day, at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,
01:46:15: Long Island Youth for Christ, staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.
01:46:24: Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.
01:46:32: Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.
01:46:45: Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.
01:46:53: For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.
01:47:00: That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.
01:47:09: That's liyfc .org. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,
01:47:24: Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.
01:47:32: He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
01:47:37: You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the
01:47:44: Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
01:47:56: Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,
01:48:02: Christ -exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at Solid -Ground -Books .com
01:48:09: That's Solid -Ground -Books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.
01:48:18: Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine
01:48:34: Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.
01:48:50: The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers in Christian apologetics with evidence for the
01:49:00: Bible's reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.
01:49:07: Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the
01:49:18: Bible. HBS's founder, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, is committed to sharing this collection along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church.
01:49:31: Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org. The collection includes a complete 11th century
01:49:38: Bible, an actual page of the Gutenberg Bible from 1455, the first book ever printed, the
01:49:45: Geneva Bible, the 1611 King James Bible, and much, much more. Visit historicalbiblesociety .org
01:49:53: today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:50:00: And don't forget, folks, if you donate a minimum of $35 to the
01:50:07: Historical Bible Society at historicalbiblesociety .org, you will receive a 44 -page book, 9 by 12,
01:50:18: I believe, in dimension, of the ecclesi... I'm sorry, not the ecclesiology, the genealogy of Jesus.
01:50:27: And it is a beautiful book. It looks as if it's been printed on parchment paper.
01:50:34: Every page contains artwork of the genealogy of Jesus that is printed directly from a first edition 1611
01:50:45: King James Bible. It's really a breathtaking 44 -page book, and quite large. As I said, it's about 9 by 12 in dimension.
01:50:54: And you will get that for a donation of $35 or more to historicalbiblesociety .org.
01:51:01: And if you are donating to them, make sure that you tell them that you are doing so because you want them to continue supporting
01:51:08: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And we thank Dan Belofuoco, attorney at law, and the folks at the
01:51:15: Historical Bible Society for renewing your contract with us for advertising on this program.
01:51:22: And if anybody wants to join us, send in your email address quickly because we are rapidly running out of time.
01:51:30: Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com. chrisarnson at gmail dot com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and country of residence.
01:51:38: We have Christopher from Western Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who has a question for you,
01:51:45: Dr. Rob. I have been recommended to read a book called Biblical Eldership by Alexander Strauch.
01:51:54: Do you also recommend this book? Yeah, we use that at Desert Hills for our elder training.
01:52:03: And there's a discussion guide that you can get that goes with it and a workbook. And we found all of them to be really helpful in helping the men that are coming on the elder board understand what exactly it is they're going to be doing as elders.
01:52:20: Because, again, as we mentioned, a lot of times in most churches, I would say that I've been around through my life, the elders were kind of just seen as pastoral advisors.
01:52:32: And we want all of our elders to be pastors and shepherds. And so they need to understand what that looks like.
01:52:39: And that needs to be built from the ground up, because most people that I've encountered, just when they think about elders, they do not equate that idea with being a pastor.
01:52:52: And it doesn't mean every pastor is paid. Some are dedicating their full -time energy and life to that.
01:53:00: Others have other jobs, and they help. They do shepherding, but they don't preach every
01:53:05: Sunday or something like that. So, yeah, I think it's a great book, very helpful. And the full title, just for anybody else's information that may want to order this book, because I have actually have been blessed for quite a number of years by the publishers of that book.
01:53:26: Lewis and Roth Publishers have, in the past, had quite a number of my
01:53:33: Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheons, have provided copies of this book that were given away to pastors in attendance.
01:53:45: And so I want to thank Lewis and Roth Publishers for being so generous for so long for the
01:53:52: Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheons. The full title is Biblical Eldership, an
01:53:58: Urgent Call to Restore Biblical Church Leadership. Once again, by Alexander Strauch.
01:54:06: And it has been endorsed by some really wonderful folks like John MacArthur, Alistair Begg, S.
01:54:15: Lewis Johnson, the late S. Lewis Johnson. And I know that David Murray, who was formerly on the staff at Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, really loved this commentary as well.
01:54:31: So you can go to lewisandroth .com and Lewis is spelled L -E -W -I -S and Roth dot com or you can go to cvbbs .com,
01:54:41: Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, and order it there. And if they don't have it, they will order it for you.
01:54:48: And I would actually prefer if you go to cvbbs .com to order it since they sponsor this show.
01:54:54: And they will order anything that our listeners would like to get a hold of. And make sure you tell cvbbs .com
01:55:01: that you heard about them from Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Well, I want you to have approximately two minutes of uninterrupted time,
01:55:10: Dr. Rob, to really summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today. Thanks, Chris.
01:55:18: I think as you look at the church that you're a part of, you should think about how important is the ecclesiology of the church to your church leadership?
01:55:30: Do they understand what the church is supposed to be? Are you under biblically qualified leadership?
01:55:39: Who has the authority in your church? Is that entrusted to a group of qualified men who are serving under the authority of Christ?
01:55:47: Do they limit their authority where the Scripture limits it and exercise it where the
01:55:53: Scriptures have given them authority? What is the purpose of the gathering of your local congregation?
01:56:01: Do you gather to equip the church to do the work of ministry? Or is it attractional in nature so that it's a gathering of essentially trying to get unbelievers to come in and hear the gospel while the believers are not fed, not discipled?
01:56:18: What is the role of the church in the community? Is it to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ? Or is it to just be another social arm in the community to do social projects and help the community?
01:56:34: Again, there's nothing wrong with helping others. We're commanded to do that in Scripture as part of loving our neighbor, but is that the way your church primarily thinks of its role?
01:56:42: And I think it's important for everyone to recognize that you will become like those who lead you.
01:56:50: And so as you think about that, you want to ensure that you are following qualified leadership, godly leadership in the church, and that your elders fit the qualifications in 1
01:57:02: Timothy and in Titus. And also as listeners, maybe God is calling some of you to step up and lead and be elders.
01:57:10: You should understand those qualifications and pray for the men listening. Are you someone that God would call to serve as a shepherd, a pastor, an elder in your local church, so that you can lead others in a
01:57:26: Christlike example and by teaching God's Word? The church is in desperate need of qualified men to serve as elders and shepherds in the church.
01:57:35: We have a final question that we have time for, and I usually only give the first name of a listener, but since he's a friend and a pastor of a church that I highly recommend,
01:57:45: I will give his full identity. He is Pastor Gary George of Sovereign Grace Chapel in Southbridge, Massachusetts, and he says,
01:57:56: Episcopalians claim that the sub -apostolic period at the turn of the first century, bishops were identified as being heads over the districts that they belonged,
01:58:09: I think he meant where they belonged, with a class of priests being under their authority.
01:58:15: Is there any validity to this? Well, I'm not a historian, so I can't answer the question about the historical fact or whether that's true or not historically.
01:58:30: But again, I would go to Scripture and look to see if that is what we find modeled in Scripture, and I don't see that.
01:58:37: It acts in 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, and Philippians, the introduction to Philippians, and throughout the
01:58:45: New Testament, we see the churches governed by a qualified group of elders, and that there are deacons that are there to assist in the ministry of the church and the carrying out of the ministry as the elders were leading the church.
01:58:59: And so, you know, if they did that in the early second century, that may be the case.
01:59:05: In some cases, some churches did that. But again, you know, they weren't inspired.
01:59:12: They could have been mistaken. I would go to what the New Testament teaches and allow that to be the final authority over how we understand church polity.
01:59:20: Well, we're out of time, and I want to make sure our listeners have the website for Desert Hills Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona.
01:59:27: It's DesertHillsChurch .com, DesertHillsChurch .com. I want to thank you so much, Dr. Rob, for being our guest today.
01:59:33: You always do a great job. I want to thank everybody who listened today, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater
01:59:41: Savior than you are a sinner. Thanks a lot, Chris. I appreciate you having me back. I loved having you back.