Q&A with Justin Peters - How I Came To Be Doing What I'm Doing

Justin Peters

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People frequently ask me, Justin, what began your interest in the Word Faith Movement, New Apostolic Reformation, Prosperity Gospel, and engaging these false teachers?

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What began your interest in that? Well, would you believe it if I told you that a

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Chinese woman in a prophetic dream about a squirrel had a lot to do with it?

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It did. Welcome to the program, ladies and gentlemen.

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My name is Justin Peters. I hope that this finds you and your family doing well today. I wanna thank you so much for joining me.

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As an evangelist, my heartbeat is expositional preaching, preaching the Word of God verse by verse, preaching the gospel across the

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United States and around the world. That is my heartbeat. But that for which I suppose

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I'm most well known is my seminar entitled Clouds Without Water in which

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I engage the false theological movements of the Word of Faith Movement and the

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New Apostolic Reformation, the Prosperity Gospel, and really the charismatic movement in general because so much of the charismatic movement is dominated, completely dominated by Word Faith and NAR, Prosperity Gospel.

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So the backstory is that I was born and reared in Vicksburg, Mississippi, and we had a relatively small family, my parents and myself, and then my sister who is two years younger than I, but I'm born and reared in Vicksburg and I was born with cerebral palsy.

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And CP has a wide range of effects. Some people with CP have very light cases of it.

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You almost wouldn't even know they had it unless they told you. But on the other end of the spectrum, CP can be devastating.

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It can leave a person completely physically incapacitated to the point where they cannot even give themselves a drink of water.

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And in some of those more extreme cases, their speech is affected, sometimes completely affected where they're completely unable to talk.

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I'm not aware of CP affecting anyone's intelligence as far as leading to like mental retardation or anything like that, but physically it can be devastating to where you're basically trapped in a body that you just simply cannot control.

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By God's grace and His providence, I have a moderate case of CP. I can walk on crutches for short distances.

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In fact, that's one of my crutches there in the background. There you can see for longer distances,

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I use an electric three -wheel scooter that many of you watching this video have seen me in. So I'm very grateful that God and His providence put me at that level of severity with my

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CP that if it were any worse than what it is, I couldn't do what I do as far as traveling around the

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United States and around the world, even preaching the gospel and doing my seminars.

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So He put me right at that level that I would need to be to enable me to do what

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I do. And by God's grace, my speech was not affected. But we were very regular attenders of Southern Baptist Church.

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A lot of people think I was reared in the charismatic movement. I was not, reared

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Southern Baptist denomination. But we lived in a neighborhood outside of Vicksburg, Mississippi.

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And there was a man who was a neighbor of ours who lived right down the road from us within walking distance named

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Charlie. And Charlie was very much charismatic. But growing up as a kid,

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I didn't even know what that meant. But Charlie was one of these guys. And he attended our church. He attended

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First Baptist Church, Vicksburg, Mississippi, regular attender there. And we knew him well. Pretty much everybody in our neighborhood knew one another.

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But Charlie was one of these guys who was always getting a dream, always getting a vision from God.

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God was always talking to Charlie. God seemed to talk to Charlie more than He ever did to Moses.

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He's just one of these guys, always getting dreams and visions and experiences. And he was what

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I now know to be word of faith, even though I'd never even heard that word at the time.

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But when I was 16 years old, Charlie came up to me one day and he said,

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Justin, God has spoken to me. And He's told me that He's going to heal you as long as you have enough faith.

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And at age 16, this really resonated with me because I wanted to be healed. I think

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I can honestly say that I've never been bitter about my handicap, my cerebral palsy, because I was born this way.

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I've never known anything different. I tell people somewhat tongue in cheek,

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I don't miss walking like I don't miss flying on the space shuttle. I've never done it, so I don't really know what

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I'm missing. Can kind of imagine what I'm missing. But I've never been bitter about it because it's just my normal.

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I've always thought it would be much harder to have been able -bodied and then lose those abilities, either through a disease or an accident or something like that.

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But this is all I've ever known, so it's just normal. But when

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I was a teenager, my handicap did begin to bother me more than it ever had before, because my friends are, you're a teenager and you're starting to get a little bit of independence.

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And the guys are playing football and the girls do whatever, cheerleaders or whatever, and starting to date and starting to drive and getting their driver's license and all that and having more independence.

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And I couldn't do any of those things. And so for the first time, my handicap really began to bother me as a teenager.

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And so when Charlie told me that God had spoken to him and told him that I was going to be healed,

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I really latched onto that. I wanted to be healed very much at that age.

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And Charlie would have me down at his house pretty regularly. And after that, and he would start showing me a lot of scriptures that seemed to support his assertion that it's always

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God's will to be healed. He would show me verses like Isaiah 53, four and five, by his stripes we are healed.

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He would show me verses like third John two, beloved I pray that in all things you may prosper and be in good health even as your soul prospers.

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Now, he was taking those verses out of their proper context, but at age 16,

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I didn't know anything about hermeneutics. Had never even heard the term hermeneutics.

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So yeah, I mean, it seemed to be, yeah, that's what the Bible says. And so he had me completely convinced it's always

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God's will to be healed. I just needed to have enough faith. Now, where's the squirrel come in?

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Well, remember I told you that Charlie was always having dreams and visions. In this season of my life, one day

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I remember Charlie told me that he got a dream from God, a prophetic dream from God. And he had a dream that there was a squirrel that got loose in the halls of First Baptist Church, Vicksburg, my home church.

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And the squirrel was just running all over the church and nobody could seem to catch it. And he said that the squirrel was symbolic of the

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Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit was just about to get loose in our church.

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And of course, being 16 years old, dumb as a brick, like, you know, and this man's telling me that God talks to him.

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This is a guy I've known my whole life. You know, at the time I had no reason to doubt it. And so I was just enthralled by this.

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And though I didn't know it at the time, that whole squirrel getting loose in the church thing, that's actually from a

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Ray Stevens song, not a prophetic message from God. And then he told me about a faith healer by the name of Nora Lam, L -A -M.

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Nora Lam was a Chinese woman who was born in what is now

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Beijing. She was born back in 1932 in a city that's now called Beijing and she had a very dramatic story about how

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God delivered her out of communist China. And more on that in just a little bit because it's pertinent.

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We're going to return to Nora Lam and her story and how it's not all that it is purported to have been.

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So Nora Lam was this famed faith healer. She was very famous in the 70s, 80s, particularly in the 90s, but claimed to have the gift of healing.

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The reports are that thousands upon thousands of people were miraculously physically healed at the hands of Nora Lam, this amazing

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Chinese woman that God delivered miraculously out of communist China and all that. And wouldn't you know it, she was scheduled to have a crusade in Vicksburg, Mississippi the old

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Holiday Inn Hotel there. And it's no longer there anymore. But anyways, that's where she was scheduled to be.

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And it was going to be on December the 3rd, 1989. I was 16 years old.

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And so in the weeks and months leading up to this big event,

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Charlie was spending a lot of time with me. And I was hearing, he would have me over to his house.

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He would show me these verses in the Bible and he would pray with me. He would speak in tongues.

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And I had never heard speaking in tongues before. And I'm thinking, I mean, this man is like really close to God because he's speaking in tongues and I can't speak in tongues.

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So I was completely, I mean, I bid it hook, line, and sinker.

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I believed it all. And unfortunately, the people in my church, there was no one really in my church, unfortunately, including the pastor himself, who really had enough theological wherewithal to sit me down in this season.

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Because I mean, I was talking about it all the time. I was telling my friends at school, nor lamb's coming at the end,

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I'm going to be healed. It was quite the buzz. I mean, I was fully committed.

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But no one had enough theological wherewithal to sit me down and say, Justin, this isn't biblical.

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Let's look at the scriptures. Let me show you why this isn't biblical. I think a lot of people had their doubts.

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I think my parents were, they had certainly more skepticism than I did, but I think they were also hopeful too.

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I mean, they wanted their son to be healed. But at any rate,

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I called a young man by the name of Justin Fisher, and Justin and I share the same first name.

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We also share the same disability. He has cerebral palsy, as do I. We met at what is called, or what was called the

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Crippled Children Center in Jackson, Mississippi. That's a politically incorrect term nowadays, I suppose, but that's what it was called back in the day.

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Just a place for handicapped children to have intensive physical therapy rehabilitation.

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We met when we were about two, three years old, two to three years old.

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And he and I both spent two years at this facility. We were basically there six and a half days out of the week for two years.

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We lived at this facility together. And so we became fast friends and we remain friends to this day.

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Justin currently lives in Alabama. And here's a picture of his family, beautiful family.

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Here's a picture of Justin and I before the fall took quite so much of a toll on our bodies.

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And this was back in our college days. So anyways, a dear friend of ours. And he still has cerebral palsy, by the way.

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He's still crippled too. But at any rate, I digress. So Justin lived in a different part of the state of Mississippi.

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He lived in a town called Konahatta. And so I called up Justin. I told him about Charlie and the dream and God speaking to him about my healing and the squirrel and everything and Nora Lamb.

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And I said, Justin, I'm gonna be healed. I want you to be healed. So come and spend the weekend with us.

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And so I talked him into it. His parents brought him over to Vicksburg and he spent the weekend with me.

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And so the big night finally arrived, December the 3rd, 1989. And we went to the

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Holiday Inn. And I mean, I was just, I can't even tell you how excited

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I was and anxious. Now, let me say this. The very fact that I was so excited about going to see faith healers should have been an indication that there was something wrong with me, spiritually speaking, because me getting so wrapped up and going to see faith healers was a reflection that deep down,

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I really was dissatisfied with my handicap, my lot in life, and therefore dissatisfied with God and His sovereignty.

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It should have been an indication there was something wrong with me spiritually. And there was. I thought I was a

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Christian at the time. I was not. I made a profession of faith when I was seven and I got baptized, had all the right answers.

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Grew up in church, so I could answer the basic questions. Do you believe in Jesus? Yes. Do you believe He died on the cross, raised from the dead?

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Yes, yes. I could answer all those questions. And you get baptized, oh, usually by the time you're six, seven, eight years old in Southern Baptist churches.

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And that's the way it was with me too. But I was lost as a ball in high weeds.

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So I was not converted, even though I genuinely thought that I was, but I was not.

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So at any rate, we went to the Holiday Inn and the place was packed.

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It began with a meal. They served a meal first. And then Nora Lamb came out and she began to quote unquote, preach.

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I don't remember a lot of what she said, probably because, well, it's been a long time, but mainly just because I was so anxious and excited, kind of almost a nervous excitement about what

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I thought was about to happen. But I do remember her telling a lot of stories. And then it kind of wound down, at least that part of it.

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And that's when the healing part of the service was just about to begin.

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Now, before the healing begins is when they take the love offering.

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That's by design. Because if you need a miracle, what have you got to do first?

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Well, you got to sow a seed. And so, sow a seed means you give the man of God or the woman of God, quote unquote, your money.

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Sow a seed so you can reap a harvest. And this is standard fare for fake faith healers to this day.

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The Benny Hinn does the same thing. I've been to 18 Benny Hinn crusades. The love offering is always taken just before the healing starts by design.

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So they got out buckets and they started passing the buckets around. And Nora Lamb was talking about how the power of God is here.

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The spirit of God is here and He's moving. And you need to show your faith by giving sacrificially.

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And so people, the buckets were being passed and people were putting in their money. And when that was finally concluded,

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Nora Lamb said, I want everyone who needs to be healed to form a line. And so a line formed and it stretched all the way around the room.

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Now, neither Justin nor myself can stand up on our crutches for long periods of time.

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So we just remained in our seat and we were going to pick up the end of the line as it made its way up to Nora Lamb.

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And so one by one, people would come up to Mrs. Lamb and she had this little vial of oil.

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And as people would come up to her, she would dip her finger in the oil and she would touch people on the forehead.

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And as she would touch them on the forehead, they fell backwards. They were being slain in the spirit.

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And of course, there's always someone there to catch them. I've never really understood why that's necessary.

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If the Holy Spirit of God is strong enough to knock you over, is He not also strong enough to give you a safe descent onto the floor so you don't hurt yourself?

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But at any rate, there's a catcher there. So people, one by one, just boom, boom, boom, just going out, laying out.

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And y 'all, I was raised Baptist, so I had never seen anything like this before. And I was just absolutely bug -eyed.

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But there were just bodies all over the place. And finally, the end of the line came up.

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And so Justin and I stand up on our crutches and we begin to make our way down front.

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Well, Nora Lamb saw us coming. And all of a sudden, she decided it was time to go. And so she began to make a hasty exit out the kind of the back door of the room there.

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Well, my dad saw what was happening and he briskly went up to her and he stopped her.

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And he said, my two boys have been waiting to see you. And I would appreciate it if you wouldn't leave until you spoke with them.

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He did this in front of everyone. So Mrs. Lamb pretty much had to turn around. And so by this time,

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Justin and I had made our way down to the front of where she was. And so she stood there and she had her little vial of oil and she dipped her finger in the oil.

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She touched him on the head. She touched me on the head. And guess what? I fell backwards.

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Honestly, I don't even remember if Justin fell backwards or not, but I remember I did. And now looking back on that, there was nothing spiritual about it at all.

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It's just that we had seen everyone else do it. And so subconsciously, when you're predisposed to this, you're expecting something to happen.

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You want something to happen. You just kind of involuntarily, you fall backwards.

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It's peer pressure, group dynamics, mind over body. But the person that was on you, there's someone behind me too.

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And that was part of it. So they gently lowered me down. And then Nora Lamb once again began to make her exit.

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But she said something right before she left the room. And she said this. She said,

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I'm leaving town very early in the morning. But if any of you want to meet with me before I leave, she said, be back here tomorrow morning at 4 .30.

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And then she left. Well, I could tell pretty quickly that I was not healed, at least not yet, but I heard her say that.

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And so I thought, well, maybe if we come back here at 4 .30

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in the morning, that'll be my demonstration of my faith. God will see that and see that I'm serious about this.

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I believe it. And then God will heal me. And so I asked my dad to bring us back and he did.

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So we got to the Holiday Inn, 4 .30 that morning. And we walked in and there was

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Mrs. Lamb. And she looked at Justin and me and she said something to us kind of briefly.

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But then she turned to my father and she asked him this question. What is your financial situation?

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And my dad said, what does that have to do with anything? And she replied, the more money you give to the

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Lord's work, the more likely it is He will answer your prayers. And my dad said, boys, let's go.

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And we left. That was my first exposure to faith healers.

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Now, believe it or not, I still didn't have it out of my system.

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And there was another faith healer who came to Jackson, Mississippi, just not quite an hour's down the road, down I -20 to the east from Vicksburg.

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And that's the capital of Mississippi. Another faith healer by the name of R .W. Schambach. And R .W.

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Schambach was having a big crusade there. R .W. Schambach was a big name in the charismatic movement at the time.

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He was from East Texas. So I went to that as well. I got someone to take me to see

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R .W. Schambach. And so we went there. And R .W.

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Schambach was up on the platform. This is a much bigger venue than the Holiday Inn that Nora Lamb had.

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This is a Mississippi Coliseum in Jackson. A much bigger venue, lots and lots of people there. And so I'm still believing, okay,

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I just, it didn't happen with Nora Lamb, but I've got more faith now and all that.

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So anyway, R .W. Schambach got up and he did his thing in much the same way that Nora Lamb did.

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He just told a bunch of stories, which is typical of fake faith healers, charismatic preachers in general.

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They spend far more time telling stories than they do actually expositing scripture if they ever exposit scripture.

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And right before the healing start, on cue, here come the buckets. Actually, Kentucky fried chicken buckets.

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They had these buckets out and they're to collect the love offering, of course. And so the buckets are being passed out all through the

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Coliseum and they came down our row. And just a couple of people down from us was this elderly black man in a wheelchair and well -dressed.

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I remember talking with him a little bit, kind man, but the bucket came to him and, but he was in a wheelchair and his hands were kind of drawn up like this, withered, very, very spastic.

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He had, he probably had CP as well, but more severe than mine. But the bucket came to him, but he managed to reach into his coat pocket and pull out some money.

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And he put it in that bucket. And R. W. Schembach saw this. He happened to be looking at him, saw it from the stage.

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And R. W. Schembach stopped and he pointed at that man. And he said, sir, before this night's over, you're going to walk out of that wheelchair.

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Buckets went on, healing line formed, nobody got healed.

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Not really, psychosomatic healings. But that, as everybody left, when the thing was over,

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I looked over and there's that same man, same wheelchair, just despondent looking.

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And I'll never forget that. No big deal for R. W. Schembach. He wasn't in a wheelchair.

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No, he just took that man's money and the money of everybody else there and went home to enjoy his cushy lifestyle and left everybody behind to pick up the pieces.

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So that was my exposure to what I now know to be the

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Word of Faith movement, the Prosperity Gospel. So I was a teenager then, and it wasn't until years later that I began to study this movement at a more academic level.

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I went to Mississippi State, got an undergraduate degree in economics, not related to anything I'm doing now, but left

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Mississippi State and went to seminary. And in seminary, I began to study this at a more academic level, as I said, because I had an interest in it.

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And as I began to study it, then I began to realize, wow, okay, the

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Word of Faith movement, this Prosperity Gospel stuff, this is not Christian at all. This actually has its roots in some metaphysical cults,

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Christian science, New Age. I started studying some of the early leaders of the movement.

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They were all heretics and charlatans, and it was just kind of like my eyes were being opened to the deception of this.

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And so that really, really began an interest in me, and I earned my

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Master of Divinity and then a Master of Theology. But for my Master of Theology in seminary,

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I decided to write my thesis on Benny Hinn and the Word of Faith movement.

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Now, this was back in 2002. So Benny Hinn was kind of at the zenith of his popularity back then.

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In the late 90s, early 2000s, he was the hottest thing going in the charismatic movement.

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A lot of controversy even back then around Benny Hinn, very, very popular, and he was packing out coliseums.

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Nowadays, he packs out hotel ballrooms, but back then he was packing out coliseums.

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And the first one I went to was in 2002 at the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Texas.

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And so I went to see Benny Hinn as part of my research for writing my master's thesis.

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And then a couple of years after that, and since then, I've been to 18 Benny Hinn crusades. And friends,

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I've seen what the television cameras won't show you. When you go to these, and I've been to Benny Hinn crusades,

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I've been to Kenneth Copeland Meeting, Southwest Believers Convention. I've been to Creflo Dollars Church. I've been to see

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Joyce Meyer. I've been to Lakewood Church, Joel Osteen. I've seen Jesse Duplantis in person. Oh, goodness.

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I've been to Bethel Church before. So anytime I have an opportunity to get in the trenches, that's what

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I wanna do because I wanna talk to people, share the gospel with people. And it is absolutely heartbreaking because you see dozens and dozens and dozens, depending on the size of the venue, hundreds of sick people, people in wheelchairs.

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Parents with sick children, sometimes dying children, babies, sick, hundreds of these people

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I've seen. And they are desperate. They are desperate for a healing for themselves or for their spouse, for their child.

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And they are being told, as long as you have enough faith, God will heal you. As long as you sow enough seed,

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God will give you a harvest. And it's heartbreaking.

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It's devastating. I have a hatred for this movement.

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I have a hatred for the theology because it is false theology, because it hurts people spiritually, physically.

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These fake faith healers exploit the poor, the sick, the desperate, the widows for their own personal financial gain.

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And as heartbreaking as that is, what is far worse is that they bring untold reproach upon the name of Christ.

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They are preaching a false Christ and a false gospel. Now, is the true gospel sometimes preached by a false teacher?

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Yeah, yeah. Benny Hinn is a false prophet, false teacher. If he's not, then the term literally has no meaning.

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He meets every biblical criterion, but I have heard him present the gospel well enough that someone would be saved.

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Is that an endorsement or a validation of Benny Hinn? Absolutely not. Broken clock is right twice a day.

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But sure, sometimes I have no doubt that some people have gotten saved listening to Benny Hinn, who happens to preach enough gospel for God to grant faith and repentance in someone's life.

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But when someone truly is saved, then they will leave Benny Hinn. You cannot be a mature

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Christian and continue to follow these wolves and hirelings. There are zero mature

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Christians who listen to Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland or Joel Osteen Bill Johnson, Todd White, Phil in the

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Blank, zero mature Christians. The only Christians that you would, I mean, by definition, if they were mature, they wouldn't be listening and following after false teachers.

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The only true Christians you would find would be very young, very immature believers who just don't have yet, don't yet have enough theological understanding to leave, but they will.

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If they're truly Christians, they will leave those false teachers. They will. The Holy Spirit of God will mature them, progress them in their sanctification, and they will not continue to listen to these false teachers.

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But remember, I said I would return to Nora Lamb. Nora Lamb did indeed have this amazing story about how

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God delivered her out of communist China. After the communist revolution in China, she and her family, they were professing believers and they were persecuted by the

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Chinese government. And Nora Lamb tells some fantastical tales. She claims that she escaped from a firing squad.

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God miraculously delivered her from a firing squad. She met a man and got married and had a baby, or got pregnant.

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And she says that she actually carried her firstborn child in her womb for 12 months, a full year, just so God could get her out of communist

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China before she gave birth. Very dramatic tale. And TBN wanted to make a full length motion picture.

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And so they did. The Trinity Broadcasting Network decided they would try their hand in movie making.

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And so they made this movie titled China Cry, which is based off of the supposedly true story of Nora Lamb.

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Here's a trailer. In a time of revolution, she lost everything.

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In an era of desperation, she found love. She found the courage to set herself free.

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We demand a full confession of your counter -revolutionary activities. China is my home.

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Take your God with you. Tell him it is his last chance to escape. But I have his promise.

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I spoke very clearly. Within a decade, he'll be locked away in the museum. To do that, you would have to imprison the wind.

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An epic struggle and the triumph of the human spirit. China Cry. We will be free.

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A true story. So China Cry made its debut in 1991.

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This was two years after I went to see Nora Lamb. They had a budget of $7 million, which was a lot of money back then, especially for, you know,

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TBN, which I was not really into movie making, of course. But it debuted in 135 theaters.

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It debuted in 135 theaters. That's a lot. And then it went on to open up and release in many, many more after that.

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So this was a big deal. And the reviews of it were actually quite good. Everything from a story standpoint and the production standpoint, this was very professionally done for back in the day, especially, again, for TBN, not a

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Hollywood studio. But there was a Christian radio show host by the name of Jon Stewart, who had some questions about Nora Lamb and her story.

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And so he began doing a series of investigations trying to find out if what

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Nora Lamb said about herself could actually be substantiated. And so he did a lot of in -depth research.

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And wouldn't you know it, very little, if any, of what

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Nora Lamb told about herself could be documented. And he exposed this.

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In fact, he dubbed the movie China Lie instead of China Cry. The movie is largely presented as a love story between Nora and her husband.

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In reality, however, Nora Lamb divorced her husband, moved to America with her second husband, a man named

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S .K. Sung. Problem, though, is that her second husband,

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Mr. Sung, was married at the time that he went to be with Nora Lamb.

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So Nora Lamb was an adulteress, and her second husband was an adulterer.

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So Nora Lamb was a, she was a con artist, dear ones, a complete con artist.

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She lied about her own life story. She committed adultery. She was a con artist and a heretic and a false prophet, just like the entire history of the charismatic movement is littered with these same kinds of people.

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All of these so -called God's generals that charismatics are so fond of, everyone from John Alexander Dowie to Charles Fox Parham to John G.

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Lake, Katherine Kuhlman, Amy Simple McPherson. I've done a whole presentation on the history of the charismatic movement.

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All of these generals, God's generals that they lulled, William Branham, I mean, all of these guys.

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They're to a man, to a woman. They were heretics. They were objective heretics, proven false prophets, con artists, just scam artists.

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And most, if not all, but certainly most of them were sexually immoral.

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In fact, the other faith healer that I went to see, R .W. Schambach, he studied under a man named

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A .A. Allen, who was an alcoholic and a huckster if there ever was one. He was strongly influenced by another false prophet named

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T .L. Osborne. T .L. Osborne had his own heresies, but not the least of which he claimed

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William Branham was God in human flesh. I kid you not.

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Well, who was William Branham, you might ask? Oh, well, he was a heretic too. Amongst his heresies was he denied the

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Trinity, called it a demonic doctrine. Now, my precious brother,

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I know this is a tape also. Now, don't get excited. Let me say this with godly love.

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The hour has approached where I can't hold still on these things no more. Too close to the curtain, you see?

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Trinitarianism is of the devil. I say that, thus saith the Lord.

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Amen. So, I mean, the whole movement is just littered with heretics, false prophets, con artists, and people who are sexually immoral.

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So, anyway, I, back to my own story, after I graduated from seminary, then a couple of years later, there was a church in Alabama that heard about my master's thesis that I wrote on Benny Hinn.

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And they had a TBN personality in their church in Hamilton, Alabama, kind of Northwest Alabama, a

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TBN personality by the name of Karen Wheaton. And she had this thing,

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I guess still does, probably called The Ramp, where she draws in teenagers from all kinds of, all churches, doesn't matter, denomination, but very divisive person because there's some wacky, charismatic stuff that they do there.

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And she sucks in teenagers from, doesn't matter if it's a charismatic church or Baptist church or whatever, she sucks these teenagers in and they get taught some wacky theology and they do some really wacky, disturbing things, even like vomiting up demons and that kind of stuff.

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I mean, just some, so she's very divisive. And the pastor of this particular church was

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Baptist church in Hamilton, Alabama, heard of my research and he asked me to come and teach in his church on the

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Word of Faith movement. And so I did that first time back in October of 2004, a very, very early version of my seminar.

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And then after that, doors just began to open and now by God's grace,

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I've preached the gospel and done my seminar, Clouds Without Water, at least some version of it in 46 of the 50 states and in 35 different countries now, in many of those countries multiple times.

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So yeah, that's the backstory. A lot of people have made the charge against me that the reason

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I teach so strongly against the charismatic movement, the Word of Faith movement, all that stuff, that I do that because I'm bitter.

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I'm bitter because as a teenager, I went to see faith healers in hopes of being healed and I wasn't healed and I'm just bitter about that.

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So I've got this personal ax to grind. But dear friends, I think I can tell you that nothing could be further from the truth.

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And I think I'm safe in saying, ask anyone who knows me at all, anyone who's spent any time with me, is

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Justin a bitter person? Is he bitter about not being healed? I don't think there's a person on the planet who knows me that would say, yeah, he comes across as really bitter about being crippled.

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There's not a bitter bone in my body about not being healed. If I have to live the rest of my life with cerebral palsy, that's fine.

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I've got all of eternity to live without it. And also I understand that anything short of hell is the mercy of God.

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Anything short of hell is the mercy of God. And so for what reason, what reason would

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I have to be bitter? Not at all. God has saved me from hell. God has saved me from himself.

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And that is the greatest blessing. So I am not bitter, not in the least. I now, by God's grace, now understand that my cerebral palsy is in and of itself, it's not a good thing.

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The affliction itself is not good, but it is good for me that I was and am afflicted so that I might learn your statutes at Psalm 119 .71.

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I'm grateful because God has used something that in and of itself in my life was not good, handicapped, and going to see faith healers, going to see

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Nora Lamb and R .W. Schambach. In and of itself, it was not good that I went to see these fake faith healers.

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But in his providence, Romans 8 .28, he works out even those things for the good and ultimately for his own glory.

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And that is kind of what set me on the path that I've been on ever since.

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Again, engaging false teachers is not all I do. A lot of people think that it is, it's not.

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Again, people who know me well know that it's not all that I do, but it is certainly part of it.

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And God has used this in my handicap. Were it not for my cerebral palsy, were it not for those crutches right there,

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I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now. And it seems that God in his kindness has used it.

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And a lot of people, praise the Lord, are being brought out of this movement.

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And I pray that that continues. So Titus 1 .9, Paul says, teach sound doctrine and refute those who contradict.

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So it's not an either or, it's not a either preach the gospel or engage false teachers.

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Theologically speaking, we can and should walk and chew gum at the same time. Teach sound doctrine and refute those who contradict.

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It's interesting. 26 of the 27 books in the New Testament directly warn about false doctrine and or false teachers.

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Only the book of Philemon does not. So warning about false teachers and false doctrines, that is a prominent theme in the

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New Testament. It is a prominent theme amongst the apostles, the pastoral epistles.

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It is a prominent theme in the teachings of Christ himself. So if you have a problem with engaging false teachers and refuting them, then your problem is with Christ, not with me or with someone else who does it.

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So I have a desire and a passion to see people delivered out of this deception.

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And again, by his grace, he is pulling his own out of this deception. That, by the way, is the true work of the

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Holy Spirit. When he pulls people out, draws people out of bad teaching into good teaching, out of error into truth, the work of the

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Holy Spirit's not making angel feathers and gold dust fall out of the sky like in Bethel or knocking people over and making them flop around on the floor like a fish.

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That's not the work of the Holy Spirit. The work of the Holy Spirit is a wholly sanctifying work.

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All right, dear ones, thank you very much. Well, I hope this gives you a little bit of the backstory. And until our next time together, may the grace of our

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Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of his Holy Spirit be with you all.