King James Only Straw Manism: Kent Brandenburg

Alpha & Omega Ministries

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

Comments are disabled.

00:32

END CREDITS And then appeal to age discrimination.

01:04

Thank you. Mm -hmm. There you go. So anyway Third program this week, but as you know on the last program

01:12

I began responding to an article titled What is truth?

01:19

More James White on the version issue either doesn't know what he's talking about or he's lying by Kent Brandenburg And we started taking the part because it's it needs to be taken apart

01:29

I consider the King James only a movement and Brandenburg is a

01:35

King James only as at least He was back in 2009 Again there's this spectrum and when you push on some people they'll get a little wobbly

01:47

Weasley and and You know go back to at least a somewhat more defensible position than they would otherwise but you know,

01:56

I discussed the the spectrum of belief in the King James only controversy a long time ago and As I said up until this article we had only there were only

02:07

I had made one reference I guess on a program or something and then Alan Kirshner had

02:14

Responded to this gentleman's Mishandling of Psalm 12,

02:21

I think in two articles if I recall correctly Anyway, I Really consider this an important issue

02:31

I'm obviously attempting to be consistent. I discuss textual issues with With Muslims with atheists with Mormons, etc, etc.

02:41

So when I see Blatant inconsistency and error

02:48

Even amongst those who would identify at least broadly in the realm in which

02:54

I myself minister Need to address that and of course as I've explained

03:00

From my perspective as as I'm seeing, you know, I don't know if it's just a little blip in social media or just just what it is, but As I'm I'm seeing people starting to promote this form of traditionalism

03:20

Well, we have a tradition. We have a traditional text You know, it's sort of the well obviously

03:30

The eclectic text or modern translations, you know, let's associate that with the the modern

03:40

Collapsing evangelicalism let's go back to something greater. You know, it's it I understand the attraction that it has for some people but what

03:48

I'm trying to do is explain and sound the warning how it is a complete capitulation in regards to well, first of all, it's it's inconsistent for people who believe in solo scriptura to have an externally derived theory that then determines what scripture is and Secondly it is absolutely the end of Meaningful apologetic interaction the part of those people who embrace these positions whether it's a vague

04:21

Ecclesiastical text position where you can't really say what the text is You can't really give a an actual theory as to how you drive the text

04:31

Even if you if you push on the Byzantine position, it becomes presuppositional in the sense that well we start with this well,

04:40

I suppose everybody has their presuppositions, but That That has to be examined very very very carefully

04:47

As to exactly what those presuppositions are. There are also confusions about categories

04:54

Difference between canon and the actual text things like that. We've addressed some of that Well, we've addressed all of it at times in the past to greater or lesser extents.

05:04

Anyways, it just seems to me that Adopting this position will put anyone who has embraced it in a

05:14

Completely non -functional position as far as doing any meaningful apologetics Providing a defense of the

05:20

New Testament text Anything like that at all? And so it's a it's a shame for me to see

05:27

Young reformed men who want to get out there and do something and yet They're falling into this and as a result don't even seem to realize

05:37

What the problem really is and so I started responding to the many many straw men gross misrepresentations it is it is the standard element of King James only ism to Misrepresent the other side.

05:51

I mean anybody who's read Ruckman and Ripplinger and GIP and all these people knows that that's just just the way it is and Over the years and it's only a book came out in 1994.

06:06

So we're talking 21 years now We've had that book out.

06:12

Well actually came out in 95 and I think about early 95 wrote it in 94 It would have come out earlier, but Gail Ripplinger was threatening to sue

06:20

Bethany House. So Took a little while longer to make sure it was safe But it's been out a little while.

06:28

We've got a little experience dealing with these folks and There there is no nastier group.

06:36

I've said this many times The Mormons atheists

06:41

Muslims, none of them can hold a candle to King James only Baptist Pretty much every single one of the street screechers that Ended our work in Salt Lake City, and I came out to Mace, Arizona and things like that I pretty much every single one of them was was

06:59

King James only and So they they really they set the standard they really do and Seems that mr.

07:08

Brandenburg is right along with them. And so we had Yeah, we have a straw mentality we were sent a couple links there was one

07:19

I got yesterday on Twitter very creepy -looking that was That was

07:26

R -rated slasher movie creepy -looking That's like oh, no, I'm not no, but there was one on eBay

07:33

It was it was a set of three, but you could separate them and now it work I mean, I I really

07:38

I could just see a little thing over there, you know with a little this little button and Up comes a little

07:49

Where we're thinking along the same lines here, yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. I didn't buy it But I'll have to look and see if that's still at eBay because that would be a little straw man indicator thing would be

08:02

Really good or we could you could probably find a video of a straw man being lit up on the internet someplace

08:08

And I could just I could just hit a button and just you know play it or something No, that would be kind of fun. We can like do a little you know straw man voice

08:16

Hi, I'm straw man Yep, that would be

08:25

That's that's that's how we should do it. That's good. That's good. Anyway, um Before we go completely off the rails there

08:33

The last sentence that I had read was White's position is that a percentage of the words of Scripture have been lost

08:41

In our need of restoring it isn't a settled book to him More work needs to be done in post -enlightenment

08:47

Textual criticism a rationalistic exercise is the means in this new video and others the new video was just simply the dividing line episode from last week

08:59

He implies that Calvin is an example of someone From the applicable era that was doing this

09:05

He's the historical go -to guy to establish that some of these those men were doing the same thing. This is called a spin

09:10

He is spinning Calvin now. There's just so many like I said it Target rich environment here.

09:17

There's just so many errors That Brandenburg can pile into into a very short number of words

09:26

My position as anyone who's actually read the book honestly anyways is that no words of Scripture have ever been lost and I Would be interested in knowing

09:44

Again, it's it's the the real King James only us Who will at least stick with?

09:54

You know will it identify some version of the King James or Some version of the

10:00

TR or something will at least come out and say well here it is now most of them won't do that because they know

10:07

That You can Just far too easily punch holes through anyone who takes that position because well

10:16

Which King James are we talking about which which printing are we talking about? Are we talking about Oxford? Are we talking about Cambridge?

10:23

You which edition are you talking about? Are we talking about the 1769 Blaney revision?

10:29

Which one are we talking about most the time they just want to be very vague on that They don't want to get nailed down.

10:34

They'll nail you For allegedly telling people It isn't a settled book to him.

10:40

And so I just want to go. Okay, you've settled on the book the eggs Then give us give us

10:47

Tell us what it is. And all of a sudden even though they just want to hammer away on us

10:52

They don't want to answer that question. So which one is it? We aren't told here We aren't told is it a particular

11:02

Manuscript is it a Particular printed text. Is it the 1525

11:07

Bomberg in the Old Testament? Is it the 1633? What is it we need to know if you're gonna make this type of criticism then we need to know

11:21

But Beyond that anyone who has read this

11:28

Knows that I do not believe anything has ever been lost And if they take the position that they do then

11:36

I would want to ask Has your position always been true throughout church history?

11:44

in other words If you say that nothing has ever been lost

11:51

Then do you support the Kami Ohanian you support first John 5 7? Because that was lost from the

11:58

Greek text up until when? So Was it

12:03

Not was it lost in the Greek but not lost in the Latin and therefore the

12:08

Latin corrects the Greek these are these are one of the reasons we don't get a lot of Serious answers to from from King James only us, but they are the questions that need to be answered

12:29

So When it says it isn't a settled book to him What part of we possess all the original readings?

12:38

Do you not understand? Oh Well, you say you saw through text criticism at difficult places.

12:43

Yes. So do you? you can ignore that you can pretend that you're not doing that, but it's all pretense and That's why you can't go out and debate

12:53

Bart Ehrman's or John Dominic Crossan's or Marcus Borg's You can't go out there and do that because your position is

13:02

Empty when it comes to providing actual answers to what would be the real

13:08

Issues of such debates you have to avoid those folks. You can mock them from afar

13:13

You can write articles against them, but you can never face them because you couldn't answer the questions

13:22

That would be asked that would require you to identify a specific text if You're if your theory can't produce the text then your theory is worthless and Whatever text you've quote -unquote settled on is the process of some type of historical reality

13:48

So I've said for decades now King James only ism as a system

13:57

Cannot apply the standards that it applies to others to itself. It cannot do it.

14:02

It has to It has to do what Islam does use one set of standards for the

14:09

King James and a completely different set of standards for everybody else just as they have to do with the Quran two sets of Standards and once you admit openly in front of everybody.

14:19

Yep. I've got I have two sets standards What you're saying is I cannot engage in meaningful conversation dialogue or debate or defense in my position and I know it and I don't care

14:36

Okay, so there's there's the problem When it says it isn't a settled book to him

14:44

What does that mean again without without a position on the other side to respond to I Can only go okay

14:56

So When you compare The Cambridge and Oxford editions of the

15:03

King James and you have a difference Does that mean it's not a settled book to you? or do you just do the mindless thing that a recommend

15:11

I does and Say, um, it's the Oxford edition Schofield reference edition that's the

15:20

Completion of God's purification process Just sort of pick one out of the air.

15:26

Here's my standard and that's it. See I believe in a settled word Well, that's nice but it makes you

15:35

Stand in a position that no one in church history has ever stood in and don't you dare say that the

15:42

Reformers did that Don't you dare say that it's a lie No, no, no, no, no

15:49

Serious person who knows anything about church history Would ever say anything like that.

15:56

It's just absurd Absolutely absurd they did not do that. So You know the phrase is like a rationalistic exercise

16:09

What was what was Erasmus doing when he was comparing his manuscripts creating the first printed editions the

16:15

TR? What were the King James translators doing when when one committee would use one text and Another committee would use another text.

16:27

How do you how do you? deal with the realities that There are differences between the underlying text used by the different Committees in the production of the

16:38

New Testament the news of the King James version of the Bible How do you deal with this now?

16:44

I some people say this is not fair I I I remember the

16:50

I remember the look of My King James only opponent in London when

17:01

I dragged this out It he you could just tell the

17:07

Jack Mormon Did not believe that it was fair that I was holding in my hand a 1550

17:17

Stephanus text a real 1550 Stephanus text not a facsimile

17:23

This is the real thing and This this that smell

17:35

Is that the ancient dust smell? This isn't an ancient text. It's an old text.

17:41

Well, it's older than me. So Anything over 400 years is is an old text but that smell multiply it by tens of thousands and You know what?

17:57

It is to walk into the reading room at Trinity Library in Dublin. Oh my goodness if you have not seen the reading room at Trinity the

18:08

Trinity Library in in in in Dublin To a Trinity College, uh, go

18:14

Google an image of it That the image will not even begin to explain what it's like to come out of the gift shop and come up the stairs and I turned

18:28

I think it was left and I'm looking down on each side.

18:37

I don't know how many floors it goes up, but just That smell oh my goodness just just amazing anyway, uh, this is a 1550

18:52

Stephanus text And I just opened up To the

19:00

Gospel of John and In not now this text

19:07

Was basically what we would call the received text in England from its publication in 1550 until really, you know the

19:20

Stephanus brothers 1633 there they're Publishing their TR type thing and that's a pretty important period of time

19:31

Lots of important development creedal development in in reformed theology

19:36

This text was used this very text. I'm holding and interestingly enough as I look at this

19:44

There are notes in the margins not handwritten notes published notes The font that was used for this was designed by a

19:55

Frenchman by a name of Garamond You've heard of get our Garamond front font, well, that's where it came from that was his name and He designed this font specifically for Robert Estienne for the publication of this edition and in the margins

20:13

Robert Estienne compared other manuscripts and he included

20:21

Variant readings. Yep. They're right there.

20:26

You can see them There's there's the notes right there. Oh, there's some more look at that Well, I I wonder how anyone's faith survived that Because I mean if you note very reading

20:42

You know da -wait Went after the New King James Version because it had textual notes because that will destroy people's faith.

20:49

Well, hmm somehow this got used by Literate Christian believers in England and across the

20:59

European continent for decades on end during a very important period of Theological development among especially amongst the reformed churches and somehow they didn't didn't lose their faith.

21:10

Hmm That's strange. And How do you explain?

21:16

The differences Between this text and the five editions of Erasmus and Then the edition of Beza because those are the seven editions.

21:34

This is the the sixth the seven editions That is used that was used by the

21:39

King James translator Aren't you gonna have to engage in some kind of Well rationalistic exercise

21:52

Because Erasmus did it and Robert Estienne did it and Beza did it

21:59

Why was why is it a rationalistic exercise for me to examine textual variance in light of What hundreds maybe thousands of times as much evidence that we have today and It wasn't a rationalistic exercise

22:19

By them see this is where we ask these questions and we almost never get answers to these questions other than you're trying to destroy people's faith in the

22:31

Bible or a type of type of Response now junk net

22:41

I Mentioned specifically and it's interesting.

22:49

I Derived my information from Edward F Hills and Edward F Hills Presbyterian scholar

22:58

Ecclesiastical text almost King James, but not quite Who's your old scholar?

23:05

Open about his presuppositions and that it was all presuppositional This is on page 114 of the current modern

23:14

Edition of my book Presbyterian scholar Edward F Hills even in defaying the KJV had to admit that Calvin made

23:21

Comments demonstrating a willingness to engage in the same kind of textual critical thought that Hills identifies as humanistic

23:29

Sounds like rationalistic exercise same thing he observes that in five places

23:34

Calvin noted variant readings suggested by Erasmus and That in three of those

23:40

Calvin sided with the non TR reading He cited as an example of John 8 59 where Calvin agreed with Erasmus is contention that Going through the midst of them and so passed by was borrowed from Luke 430 modern texts and translations concur so here you have

23:58

Erasmus and Calvin agreeing with the modern textual conclusion that that phrase at Luke 430

24:09

I'm sorry, a Johnny 59 had been borrowed from Luke 430 Now King James only us will say you're deleting

24:18

God's Word you don't trust God's Word So Calvin didn't trust God's Word Erasmus didn't trust God's Word the ones

24:24

Erasmus, you know the guy who compiled the TR Hmm Hills also noted that Calvin went beyond Erasmus Adding 18 other places where he rejected

24:40

TR readings in favor of others Calvin also made two

24:46

Conjectural emendations At James 4 2 and reading envy instead of kill and Deleting 1st

24:55

John 2 14 seeming to him a repetitious interpolation How is that spin?

25:10

This is called spin. He is spinning Calvin. He goes on to say everyone knows that errors were made in hand copies.

25:17

Really? How do you know that? without engaging in textual criticism How you know that mr.

25:24

Brander Everybody knows that's all

25:30

Calvin was writing. No, it's not even Edward F Hills recognized

25:38

That Calvin was willing to not only recognize textual variants but to adopt a textual variant other than what was provided in Erasmus's Text that's what he did.

25:57

How's that spin? That's that spin, but it does demonstrate That it is an utter canard

26:06

To say well, this is the text of the Reformation what is the text which one? Which of the five editions of Erasmus was it

26:14

Stephanos? I mean Stephanos after he published this this was published in Paris That's here.

26:20

He then went to Geneva and became Calvin's Printer So when he does a 1551 that's from that's from Geneva So is that the reformation text so it didn't exist in Luther's day because Luther's dead by then

26:37

See history just has this Nasty way of getting in the way of these wonderful little theories that sound great again in internet chat rooms and old

26:48

BBS forums and things like that, but Don't handle the reality of research very well anyway

26:58

Everyone knows that errors are made in hand copies That's all Calvin was writing the position of the day was that an error made in one was corrected in another

27:07

Which is why he had two conjectural inundations, right? Is this

27:14

You know, it's not like I just dug up this stuff This books been in print for 20 years so when someone comes along criticizing me and then they write stuff like this that has been refuted in my own book for 20 years and in Edward F.

27:31

Hill's book for longer than that I Figure it's okay to take that and just you know, thank you miss that there, you know

27:41

Yes, they compared manuscripts that's called textual criticism

27:48

Once you start comparing manuscripts once you recognize there's textual variation that's called textual criticism

27:59

No way around it man. No way around it Yes, they compared manuscripts, but it is a lie to say that's the same as textual criticism and also ignore what they believed and taught

28:11

What? So you get to redefine textual criticism or are you defining textual criticism as the unbelieving examination of Biblical manuscripts.

28:31

Yeah, that's really what's going on That's really what's going on. There aren't any believing textual critics

28:39

Of course, there are all sorts of believing textual critics. Thank God there have been

28:46

Thank God there are still people Who? trust in God's having provided this tremendous foundation for belief in his word and we just recognize

29:00

That this kind of stuff is circular pablum and It's indefensible

29:12

But it's a lie to say That that's the same as sexual criticism. No, that's the truth

29:19

That's the truth and also ignore what they believed and taught which

29:24

I guess means well, they believe taught what I believe Well, Colin clearly didn't did he if if he engages in Textual criticism and if he introduces conjectural emendation

29:42

Then I think that pretty much proves you're wrong in regards to Calvin doesn't it? I Guess you could dismiss him you wanted to To equate what they believed with textual criticism is a lie that in published form started with Benjamin Warfield and We've talked so much

30:05

That we've talked so much about here. I'm not sure. I guess here is his blog So Oh Warfield's bad guy

30:12

Bad guy, I'm hearing not sure if that's

30:18

I don't think it is No, I'm getting some sort of a weird mm -hmm in my thing here, but I will ignore it so BB Warfield bad man,

30:32

I I'll skip over that for the moment the authors of the Confessions Did not believe that providential preservation was textual criticism neither do

30:45

I this is just complete redefinition of terms complete ignoring of Meaningful categories just to come up with some basis for self -promotion to be perfectly honest with you.

31:00

Um, I believe in providential preservation he says that's a lot fine,

31:08

I Leave it to you to examine who is consistent and who gives you the facts and who doesn't

31:14

I think that's painfully obvious it is the mechanism of Preservation and what that looks like that is the issue.

31:28

That's why I asked earlier this providential preservation that mr.

31:34

Brandenburg Promotes Needs to provide a text because I need to know where that text was throughout church history

31:45

It's given what he's saying and given what he's forcing the authors of the Confession to say is

31:52

Is that there has been one fixed inalterable unquestionable text so that means one one manuscript one

32:07

Well, it couldn't be printed edition. It has to be a manuscript Because I mean we're only living in the last quarter of The periods as the

32:19

New Testament was written so three quarters that period of time there wasn't a printing So what was this?

32:26

You know perfectly preserved text in that preceding point of time now the

32:34

Byzantine text advocate will say what was the Byzantine manuscript tradition, but That's not a defined thing either in this sense that he's using it

32:47

Where you're attacking the examination of textual variance and so on and so forth So, which one was it because if there was one manuscript in that time period well

32:58

We know that the modern -day TR and the King James doesn't match any single one Of the manuscripts that existed before that so the whole position just falls apart

33:08

It's it's indefensible easily preached but indefensible which

33:16

This is true about a lot of evangelical preaching today Preaches well, but it's not overly defensible

33:25

The authors of confessions did not believe the providential preservation was textual criticism They believe they possess the words in the apographa the hand copies in Identical form as the autographa the original that was their belief what we might call a presupposition

33:38

That is also their point in the confessions that the original language text was kept pure in all ages

33:43

White denies all of that. It was not kept pure in all ages to him There hasn't been an age to white that it has been pure since shortly after its inspiration

33:53

That age is off in the future. That is unless we redefine pure which is something less than tide detergent.

33:59

I Don't get that part either. That's I'm this I'm not even gonna bother to try to All right so the apographa of Let's say the

34:13

Byzantine manuscript tradition is an Identical form as the autographa

34:21

So that means all Byzantine manuscripts are the same, right? No, look for example at The difficult task and this is in the real world this isn't in the make -believe world of Reformed forums online.

34:44

This is in the real world Let me let me throw out a

34:50

Challenge to any King quote -unquote reformed King James only ist or Ecclesiastical textist, whatever

34:59

I Would like to see you produce based upon your principles consistent application of your principles the

35:14

Apographic slash autographic text of the book of Revelation Based on your principles now

35:29

Even my Byzantine priority friends are chuckling right now because they know

35:38

What I know and what everybody else who's studied New Testament textual criticism to any depth at all knows and that is the

35:48

History of the transmission of the text the book of Revelation is To put it mildly unique Very unique we have the fewest manuscripts of the book of Revelation It struggled for inclusion in the canon that's probably why we have the fewest manuscripts from for it from the ancient period but it's readings

36:13

Split the Byzantine manuscript tradition up into well, basically you have unique Of Families of transmission for the book of Revelation that you find no place else

36:28

You just it's just it's very very it's challenging.

36:33

It's unique and It demonstrates fundamental divisions even within the

36:42

Byzantine family The point is that it is impossible

36:50

To create that text without engaging in meaningful consistent

36:59

Textual criticism Which of course is what

37:06

Believing men have done for a long time and never saw a contradiction

37:12

Until the oddity of King James only ism came along anyway, so when

37:21

Brandenburg says I deny all of that. I don't even know what he's talking about Given that I have made it very clear that the apographa contain all the readings of the autographa that I focus upon the tenacity of the text that literally thousands of people

37:40

Across the United States and in other lands have heard me lecture on this in my new test of reliability presentation a lot of people are left going

37:48

What planet does this guy live on? What is the color of the sky in Kent Brandenburg's world, that's the question

37:56

But you see what I actually teach what I actually believe doesn't fit into the paradigm of these folks

38:03

Because it really wouldn't give them any meaningful basis for attacking me and So you gotta you know, it's the

38:12

King James only way you come up with another way Um, so again,

38:17

I want to ask the question when you say Language text was kept pure in all ages.

38:26

What do you mean by that? Because this is the same paragraph that started with the line

38:34

Everyone knows that errors were made in hand copies. Well for the first 1 ,500 years of the history of the

38:43

New Testament text it was transmitted by Hand copies so What do you mean when you say it was kept pure?

38:57

Do you mean that God protected it in? The way that I say that he protected it and it is by its multifacality its distribution all across the known world

39:07

There is no possible way for Doctrines to be inserted doctrines to be taken out for any kind of wholesale editing or changing to take place

39:16

Yeah, exactly But that the Side effect of that explosion of the distribution of the text was textual variation and That we have to examine that that seems to be what you're denying so again

39:34

He'll complain for paragraphs that I asked for specifics But that's because we have to have them if you're gonna make these claims

39:44

You can't then turn around and say but no, it's just all You You can't expect us to provide you with a single manuscript or this just is so you get to criticize our side

40:00

But you don't apply those criticisms to your side How does how does actually does that work?

40:07

Well, it doesn't work, which is why it doesn't end up in debate anyway What is the presupposition of white well, this should be interesting

40:18

You don't hear it he doesn't refer to Scripture one time to reveal what believers should expect for preservation

40:27

Why did how many pages is this thing? I don't know What's that?

40:34

Yeah, it's it's the way this one's up to 364 pages it's getting pretty long and I do talk about a lot regarding the issue of the nature of But you see

40:49

Once you embrace This system this way of thought you uh, you really can't hear

41:03

What people are saying on the other side? It just I've seen this over and over and over and over again it functions to just Remove your ability to enter into what somebody else is actually saying

41:20

What should believers? Expect for preservation. Well, they should expect that they can trust not only the original language text

41:37

But the translations of it as well and this is where it gets really sticky Because you have to ask the

41:46

King James only us Um Really where they're coming down on this

41:55

What what is the locus of inspiration? King James only us don't believe what the

42:04

King James translators themselves believe we've established that many many times before read The preface to the readers by the

42:10

King James translators and you'll see that it utterly refutes King James only as in itself So they have to sort of them in an embarrassed fashion

42:20

Promote the great scholarship the King James translators Unless they do away with all that and just you know direct inspiration

42:27

While at the same time dismissing what the King James translators said about translations themselves

42:35

Anyway When you deal with how the

42:44

New Testament writers Handled The texts that were before them for example the citation of the

42:54

Greek Septuagint Even when it varies with the Hebrew Masoretic text all sorts of issues are raised as to what we should expect and I have yet I Have yet To encounter a

43:13

King James only us maybe some ecclesiastical text folks Maybe but a

43:20

King James only us Who had ever even given serious thought remember? Man I can't believe how fast the time is going today, but um

43:30

Remember when was it when did Steven Anderson finally release that video of Of our conversation

43:43

Because briefly at some point the

43:50

He made some comment in the comment section on YouTube, and I've talked about this on the program

43:56

I'm just trying to remember when it was About Something that had come up in our conversation, which was about Hebrews chapter 8 and The fact that The writer to the

44:12

Hebrews quoted the textual variant It's specifically between Baal and Gaal in the

44:20

Hebrew which comes across in Citation of Jeremiah chapter 31 even though I was a husband to them

44:27

Baal Or as it comes across in the Greek Septuagint though. I did not care for them

44:32

Gaal now that the Bet and the Gimel look a lot alike and Easy to see where the variant arose from but there's two different streams that existed

44:43

At the time of the writing of the New Testament and the writer of the Hebrews Shows one of those two streams.

44:51

Did you? Yeah, according to this Almost one year ago August 11th.

44:56

Oh So right at one year ago, okay, so it was sometime after that there was a

45:03

I Made note so probably September October November somewhere around there. I made note of Anderson just going ballistic

45:13

See, he doesn't believe that the Bible's pure why cuz I noted the reality the fact of The difference of the citation of Jeremiah 31 in Hebrews 8 from what's in the

45:27

Hebrew Masoretic text now If you just sit there and go, ah, it's terrible then you're not dealing with the reality of What the text actually is you're you're engaging in wishful thinking

45:49

I wish it was different Well, it's not it's like this And the serious person will buckle down and do some serious thinking and ask some questions and so on and so forth but the zealot

46:06

Will just get upset and angry and accuse you of things and so on and so forth what

46:16

What should we see in the preservation of Scripture? Well, it's all sorts of stuff that goes into that and I have discussed it it's just obvious that And Brandenburg doesn't even know what those issues are because King James only ism is a is

46:32

A way of avoiding the tough stuff. It really is. It's it's for people who don't want to have to deal with the tough stuff

46:39

That's that's what it is Tough stuff's out there. Um Now that's fascinating because remember

46:49

Another point that has come up many times before For years we have been reviewing

46:58

Bart Ehrman and We have played his debates and we've debated him

47:05

When he has new books to come out we review the books when they come out All sorts of stuff like that when

47:10

I go to South Africa. I'm gonna be doing a series of lectures on his book on the deity of Christ and Don't know what

47:20

I'm gonna get the work done on that but that's just another one of the millions of things I'm trying to get done. Uh But he mentions

47:29

Ehrman and what we've pointed out is that Ehrman's simplistic almost childish understanding

47:40

It has its closest parallel in what? King James only ism

47:45

King James only ism because remember what Ehrman says if God inspired it he wouldn't allow any textual variations to exist and So since textual variation exists that it must not be inspired and you see

48:01

Ehrman takes that and runs off into atheism and the King James only us takes that and runs off into a

48:11

Cave Where all the lights are out? And you just spin in circles.

48:20

The presupposition is wrong and the presupposition flies right in the face of Of the reality of the text that Jesus the

48:30

Messiah himself Would have had access to and would have utilized in his own ministry and what his own

48:36

Apostles utilized and they're writing in the New Testament So it's the presupposition that's wrong

48:43

But he quotes it He doesn't do this his kind Do not do this.

48:50

The only one I hear do this is Ehrman and Ehrman reports it and then says

48:55

God didn't do it explaining why he's an apostate white just won't say it's painful

49:02

Now again You know Brandenburg could just be extremely ignorant That could explain all of his straw men as misrepresentations

49:11

But those of you who've actually listened this program are sitting to go What is this guy talking about? Because we have plowed right through that over and over and over again in the past Especially when reviewing

49:22

Bart Ehrman in his comment You know,

49:27

I assume Brandenburg doesn't figure his audience is gonna be listening to me or checking things out so that's why they think they can get away with this kind of stuff this this kind of stuff but Bart Ehrman What would that look like, you know

49:43

I remember the first time I realized when I was preparing to bear but debate Bart Ehrman I for the first time

49:48

I really realized what in the world he was saying about this. I was listening to issues, etc And it was when he was interviewed on issues, etc.

49:57

I remember I was on South Mountain just like yesterday So remember where I was on South Mountain When I when it hit me, oh my goodness

50:07

Bart Ehrman is actually saying and this is what was good about being interviewed by someone who wasn't just you know, throwing him softballs

50:15

He's actually saying that if God inspired this there would be no textual variance

50:21

He wouldn't allow it and I'm like Where did he he didn't he didn't get that from Moody.

50:29

He didn't get that from Wheaton. He didn't get that from Princeton Where did he come up with this?

50:37

But it's the King James presupposition as well and they just go opposite directions with it it was

50:44

Not the understanding of Christians down to the ages. It was not the understanding of Calvin. It was not the understanding of Luther It was not the

50:51

Reformation understanding and even when you start talking about the

51:01

Apographa and the Autographa there

51:07

Every single person at the Westminster Confession of Faith had read Calvin and so they knew

51:15

That he had engaged in those Emendations or Acceptance of variant readings and their own text which they had right there had the variant readings

51:28

So whatever they meant by that it wasn't that There is a single united Manuscript or something someplace

51:40

Now a lot of what is said in Reformed Orthodoxy was in response to attacks by Roman Catholicism the

51:47

Rome What Rome wanted to do now, it's funny I Suppose in one sense

51:54

Rome still does this but in another sense Rome has capitulated because remember

52:00

And I'm obviously not even get close to finishing all this up the rate. This is going Yeah, I will mention he says

52:11

White will say he believes in a preservation of God's Word It is Clinton esque because he means word singular not plural the words

52:20

Being accused of Clinton esque stuff Wow by someone who is the master producer of straw men is sort of entertaining, but anyways

52:31

You need to remember that post Reformation Especially once you have the

52:39

Jesuits you have the counter -reformation you have, you know Trent beginning the counter -reformation

52:47

What Rome did was attempt to create an epistemological quandary and They still do that today.

52:57

It's it's central to their attack upon sola scriptura And In that context you're dealing with Rome claiming that She has the authority not only to interpret the text but to determine the text and That she has determined that the

53:22

Latin Vulgate is the inspired text and that it has ecclesiastical authority and That in fact you can correct

53:34

The idea was look Greek. That's the language of apostates. That's the language of the Eastern Orthodox Greek Orthodox and so They're dealing with this kind of attack that is promoting a particular form of the text

53:50

Latin Vulgate Which we would call the Western text day over the Greek They did not have the papyri

53:59

They only had one of the great unseals and Rome had that And ironically

54:07

Rome would want to make direct use of it because it's not a Western text

54:12

It's not supportive of the Latin Vulgate in many places They did not know of the

54:19

Byzantine text versus the Western text versus the Alexandrian text or what any of that had had to do with anything and so they're defending the use of Greek and Hebrew over against the

54:37

Latin Vulgate. That's the context of Much of what they're saying and why they're saying what they're saying and they're saying that those languages that the

54:50

The best collations we have of those manuscripts now they really when it came especially to the

54:58

Hebrew text were extremely limited as to what they had access to their Very very few manuscripts, but As even when it came to the

55:09

New Testament What they're doing is they're defending the general veracity of the original language manuscript traditions over against the claimed perfection and Interestingly enough ecclesiastical authority of the days ecclesiastical text and The ecclesiastical text of that day was

55:33

Latin We've the church has used the Latin text for 1 ,100 years

55:42

How dare you say we should use something? Are you telling us God has left us in the dark that we were missing something for?

55:51

1 ,100 years Exactly the same arguments that are being used by people today

55:58

We're being used by Rome at that time And a lot of people are not aware of that particular context

56:05

In interpreting what was written at that particular period in time so Keep that in mind when you hear people saying oh, well, you know

56:18

Reformed Orthodoxy said this that and the other thing remember what they're arguing against remember what they're the threats that they are facing are and Keep that in mind a lot of people don't

56:29

Certainly this fellow doesn't After he says it's painful he says part of it is that he and people like him don't believe their own position and they are fudging or spinning

56:44

Brandenburg, I have zero respect for someone like you

56:51

I Really do because not only do

56:56

I believe what I'm saying But I've taken what I believe out there and you haven't and so I Give your statements the exact weight that they that you have earned and that's zip

57:20

None whatsoever. And I think everybody else sees that as well. Well He talks about antics and The antics don't mean anything

57:31

But they work like the scoffers of second Peter three succeed with people about Christ's second coming blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

57:38

It really does end up sounding a lot like the the teacher in Charlie Brown.

57:43

Oh That's good. You know, I think we've taken I think we've taken this apart so badly that there's no putting it back together again

57:53

Um, but I'll look through it and see if there's some other things that we want to specifically, you know cuz he he does admit later on that Yeah White is also true when he asserts the

58:06

Rockamites cause most of the trouble and get the most attention So he admitted that he can't he can't say that everything

58:12

I said was a lie But he really does try to Anyways Again, it's important I Realize this isn't the quote -unquote ecclesiastical text stuff

58:26

But like I said the guy who made the accusation about London maps confession cited this guy

58:33

Cited Brandenburg and referred to him. So I Think it's important.

58:39

That's what we're dealing with it. And we are out of time for this week. That was at least

58:45

We did go longer than one hour on any of the proceeding progress. Not sure we did but did at least three hours at least three hours this week, so Probably back to a regular schedule next week.

58:56

I don't know because I have jury duty on Monday All I got to do is make sure

59:03

I'm reading my Bible and I should be here on Tuesday just fine We'll see we'll see

59:09

I have to call tonight and you know the hassle all this stuff is the broken system anyways

59:16

Lord well, and we'll see you next week. We'll let you know on Twitter and Facebook and stuff, but we'll see you then