Understanding the New Christian Right

I am your host John Harris, and we have today. I'm gonna pull it up a an episode a short one Hopefully on the some of the disagreements between legacy ministries and the new Christian, right? And I said I would do this on X and I want to keep it short, but I had someone email me the other day and you just kind of discouraged and confused.

Why are these conflicts happening and It's probably beyond everything that I have here this isn't necessarily comprehensive, but I did jot down a few things on a list and I want to talk about those and also I'll Just give you a little preview of coming attractions.

I have written on much of this more extensively in a book that I have coming out and so you can look forward to that but Specifically on the proposition nation and then liberalism. I have a lot to say and so I'm not gonna say that all now.

But I want to give you some basic a basic framework and hopefully along the way give you some Encouragement where I see maybe there can be some working together Against common enemies, even if it's just some cobelligerency because we just really need that right now.

So, please pray for unity within the church or you know If there needs to be some division like let's make it clear and let's make sure we know what it's over because the confusion happening in the pews is not good and.

It's.

It's something I am slightly concerned about but I know that God's gonna build this church and I know I trust that the Lord knows What's going on? He's gonna expose what he needs to expose. He's gonna Promote who he needs to promote and all of that all of that is going to happen and he's gonna have the last word.

Motivation and Tradition Versus Ideology

But let's just get to it. Let's just do it. This is the list I've made so I have four or five different categories on understanding some of these current debates between legacy ministries and the new Christian, right and We'll start, you know, maybe we'll start from the bottom and we'll move up.

How's that? So Motivation. Motivation is my first category here and in motivation I'm talking about rationale starting point interest. So the new Christian right guys tend to value tradition. We'll start there.

Whereas I think a lot of legacy ministries are more into liberal ideology. Now there are more there are ideologues who are trying to influence the new Christian, right? There's no doubt. But I think that the new Christian right is going in a more paleo conservative direction that would fit every conversation I've had lately with Any of the leaders in that movement?

They are looking to Reconnect themselves to traditions that they've been severed from they're also looking to try to make sure they promote and protect the traditions that they've haven't been severed from and This means that they're looking at human experience the wisdom of the ages.

Older.

Writings and Understandings about how things should be arranged in society and so forth whereas the ideologue generally has these abstract principles like equality or they have some kind of like a racialist principle or something and they Just impose it and it becomes the key that unlocks every door.

It's it's kind of dangerous because you can have a little bit of knowledge and think you're intelligent and make big mistakes. Because you're just you don't understand things but you think you do because you know, you were told that It's you know, everything every problem comes down to you know.

One impulse or you know one thing and I think for a lot of legacy ministries When they look at civic society, it definitely comes down to some kind of equality principle or freedom principle and and then you just kind of impose it and I Don't think that that is where the new Christian right doesn't buy that anymore and we're gonna get I think a little more into detail as we get into the proposition nation stuff and move up this list and I'll flesh that out a little bit more but these are two different ways of approaching in justifying some of the you know plans and Purposes that these groups have for society.

Another thing is the starting point is different I think that many of the more Baptistic especially legacy ministries have somewhat of a blank slate biblicism that will often come out it's like You know, whatever the Bible teaches even if it's in contradiction to church history and the way that Christians practice things for a lot of time 2 ,000 years almost in some cases like they will overturn those things for innovative readings of Scripture.

That they think are justified based on some You know hermeneutical ground but you know often it's like a reconciliation of some kind of liberalism with the Bible. So like a good example might be, you know, even some of the like questions of what is a nation?

I? hear guys all the time go to Ephesians and the wall the barrier wall between Jews and Gentiles and they think that that Shows that they're like they'll look at the reality of the universal church and they'll say that that that passage is about racism or something and like I don't know Tim Keller obviously did this but there's a lot of I've heard a lot of sermons like this and it's an innovative reading of the text like this doesn't match previous readings of the text, but.

They.

You know, they're gonna hear I stand on the Word of God like, you know, come what may that's kind of like the stand. Whereas I think new Christian right guys are more open to tradition to reason to nature.

They they believe that nature and the Bible are Reconciled that the Bible is not going to say something that is obviously contradicted when they look around them and see how God's order creation. They they're they're very open to you know, what has the church said on these things for a long period of time?

That's important to them. So they're You know when they make the stand they want to have these things in forming their stand another difference is and and this is one of the impulses that I've heard be the like explanation for all of it and.

With some guys maybe it is but that there's these legacy ministries are just trying to gatekeep upstarts because they don't want competition now. That's a mode. That's I don't know. I can't tell you what's in someone's heart, but there have been times I remember specifically talking to someone during the g3 controversy a few years ago, and I was like, I Don't know.

I don't know. It doesn't make any sense. Like they're they're nitpicking you and choosing things to disagree with you on that. I I don't think they can possibly be In disagreement with you on so it's very weird.

That would make sense of it, but I don't know and so like that's that's another potential area of Just you know, like why there might be a disagreement now, that's something that with some humility can be overcome I think You know ideology and tradition that that's a heavy one that's hard to overcome that especially when it gets worked out into things like the proposition nation between how nations have traditionally been defined as Collections of people in a place with shared experience over time and with a core.

You know a core ancestry that stretches pack and there can be assimilation, but they must have This core like that that that kind of thing like you can't have it's one or the other like it's diametrically opposed.

So ideology is like this where you know, it's it's rigid like you can't The I don't see ways around it. The ideology would have to be broken for there to be Agreement on some of those issues, but. But I think though that like, you know, there's hardly any issues that without some humility.

Eschatology, the Creative Order, and the Right Side of History

You can't actually have discussions and make progress, right? Let's go to eschatology next and I don't mean eschatology as in like eschatological flavor like pre post and on mill I mean like Because anyone of those persuasions can be on either side of this I mean in a broader sense whether you're on the right side of history or you're going to support the creative order.

This is a broader social division. It's a broader Civilizational division really and the new Christian right is on one side of it. They want to support the creative order, whatever that might be. That's why they're they tend to be more impervious to accusations of racism and sexism and these things because they're just you know.

If that's the way God designed it. I'm going to hold to it. Whereas I think the legacy ministries tend to want to be on the right side of history they let their.

Their their.

Strategizing and winsomeness and Wanting to have influence and those kinds of things. They let those things sometimes bring them to places where they have to.

Be.

The slave of human approval. Basically, I mean it's you know, what are people gonna think we need to think? About how this is gonna come across and because of that. On this particular issue. We need to just really soften this or we need to admit you know firm this up and and so they let the sort of like equality principle drive them because the the arc of history is bending towards equality and we on this this next fight we want to Make sure that we're we're standing here.

And.

So, you know this might be something Jonathan Lehman said years ago about you know, I forget what disagreement it was that he was having but he was saying like might have been kovat like we have this.

He acted like we had this stash of Cachet. This influence that we can spend at certain points and we don't want to spend it all now. Right, like, you know, we know we're kind of odious to the world on some things.

So like let's go with them on this thing and. That just like makes you the I mean that who are you making the decision for. So the reason I put this in eschatology though is because like the progressive and even the woke kind of ways of viewing things is is that like that we're going to greater and.

Greater.

Levels of equality and the LGBT is like the next thing and like they have these these different levels and. This is the shadow that follows liberalism the leg legacy ministries are pretty much that whereas I think.

The new Christian right wants to put a stake in the ground and say we're not moving. Regarding the church a lot of these legacy ministries, especially the more baptistic ones tend to be ecclesiocentric so they see the church is like that's God's mission in the world and that's it and.

And that's why I think there's a de-emphasis sometimes on politics and other things. They want to ensure that when you make decisions or you know decisions that you make I should say the most important ones are the ones that are made within the church and I've been I've had experience we'll say with some of this where the you know the elders make all your life decisions or they should at least be informed and if you're not informing them you're Not submitting the elders.

They should know who you're gonna marry and have input on that and where you're gonna work. I'm already gonna move and The activities should go through the church. Those are the most so the new Christian right doesn't really buy the end of that.

They're more holistic. They see different Responsibilities and hats you wear in public and the church is just one of them and so they will put more of a stress on the political and. And that does invite accusations of like you don't believe in the power of the gospel or something because you talk too much about politics and.

And it's like you should only really be talking about church related things online or something like that. And so that's not something that new Christian right engages and they they don't see it that way.

Domestic Arrangements and Patriarchy

Another thing is and this is under the heading of domestic, but domestic arrangements should be complementarian and within many of the legacy ministries. Meaning that the husband and wife have different roles.

But that's within the house and that you almost get the sense. It could be arbitrary because it's not necessarily rooted in creation or that in the church pastor should be men. They'll affirm that. Sometimes they'll be soft.

They'll say well the office should be a man, but the function could be a woman whatever. Patriarchy though is a little different because in patriarchy it's rooted in creation. So that's this is the reason that men Occupy this place and women occupy this place and that's why the new Christian right is not.

Very.

Optimistic or enthusiastic or supportive about women being in police combat or political roles. In fact, some of them have gone so far as to you know. Say maybe women shouldn't be giving political commentary in these kinds of things and this is of course very offensive to legacy ministries and they try to use that against the new Christian right people who say these things as examples of their bigotry and then you have Identity, so this is a huge one.

I mean, this is like my middle name. This is funny because before I started recording this there was a bunch of guys on X with not guys with a big following or anything, but they were. Just like, you know trying to get me to answer whether I thought America was a proposition or a people and I just thought like.

You spent two seconds on trying to understand my online platform and you'll know that one of my biggest issues has been defeating the proposition nation and so, you know the proposition nation is this understanding of America that it is a the proposition of equality that America is about equality and anyone who agrees with that mission and that value is Essentially an American and is compatible with America and you know.

This is how you go play in America and other places is by teaching them about equality and the outworking of that which is democracy and that kind of thing and and so. It's not what a nation is. They're like ultimately a nation is like I think I said before people in a place living.

It.

Intergenerationally with each other there's common experiences. There's a core ancestry. Sure. You can have assimilation, but You can't ever destroy that core ancestry or you don't have the nation anymore.

And this is. This is something that you find in the Bible. This is just something that I think you find in even classic literature. It's just an understanding that hasn't been questioned until recently, but the legacy ministries tend to go along with a liberal order that Values the proposition nation and thinks that it's not really about the particularities of a people.

It's it's this universal principle of equality that defines a people. And this is what used to justify every leftist innovation out there. That's the reason you know We need to have gay marriage was because of equality right equality is used to justify all of it.

And if you don't go along well You're not really an American because being an American means being supportive of equality. So I think that the align would be drawn legacy ministries would draw a line and say well not that you know but they still can't get away from like the fact that they do think that This proposition of equality is what defines America and not so it ends up being a value and it's not this more rooted actual tangible element of a people in a place in a place over time and.

So so this creates a lot of problems to be quite honest with you. This is the basis of our immigration problem this is I.

Think.

What's.

What's made people on an individual level not value where they live and their parents and in all kinds of other things. It's because it's really those things don't matter. Are you concerned about what your children are reading mudhead?

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Religious Pluralism, Cultural Christianity, and Christendom

Those things really don't matter. It's it's just what kind of abstract notion of equality. Do you have in your head? And are you motivated to? Forward it and support it. Are you going to rip it down? And if you rip it down, then you're a bigot of some kind so it's a revolutionary instinct but it definitely exists on the right and This is where they'll get off saying well.

You know.

The Democrats are the real racist. The Democrats are the real Nazis. The Democrats are really like because that what they're doing is they're trying. To say we're the ones that actually care about equality.

So.

More could be said but I that that is like my wheelhouse go watch the 1607 project Virginia first online free on YouTube. I Was the one who produced it and took me like half of last year to do it and I am proud of it.

But it's taken apart this proposition nation myth and I have a couple chapters in the book I have coming out this year on this particular subject as well. Alright civil. Civil realm. Let's talk about this the civil character is Religious either religious pluralism or cultural Christianity and so legacy ministries a lot of the time believe in some kind of a religious pluralism.

On the civil level these aren't things that are a lot of these things. It's not all are not. They're not in a statement of faith. You're not gonna find it there. It's only when the disagreement comes up that you realize.

Oh, wow. Okay, those people that were so right on Ecclesiology are so wrong on Their civil, you know, they're they're civics and in this case There's a lot of straw manning that goes on they'll say that if you want cultural Christianity That means that you want a bunch of hypocrites who don't know Christ.

And so more people go to hell and that kind of thing. That's not at all. What's being said by the new Christian right when they say they want cultural Christianity and this is true across the board. They're pretty much all believe this we want they want a society where the Christian mores and Social settings and values and laws are in place.

And so we want to see Christmas trees and manger scenes and not Kwanzaa displays we want to see prayer given that's a Christian prayer at town gatherings. We want to see in God we trust on the courtrooms.

We want to see. You know, I don't know. We want to hear Christian music when we walk into businesses if possible. We we want church bells. We don't want Muslim call to prayers. We want a city ordinance against that, right?

It's that kind of thing and this is gonna look different in different places different Majorities of people who want that for that to actually work. Or at least a strong enough plurality of people in your society for that to work.

So, you know where I live right now. I don't think that's necessarily some of these things aren't going to happen because it's. So you could call it secularized or paganized but the goal is to get there.

The goal is you want? You want to see those things you want to see? Christian values and even Christian identity reflected in society. So we don't have a problem saying this about families. Even if there's kids that aren't saved in the family we don't have a problem saying about bookstores or music or other things, but first when it comes to Localities regions nations empires people have a problem, but the alternative to that is religious pluralism.

You know, you want Muslims and Hindus and all the rest even Satanists having equal access to all the public.

Privileges.

Like that's basically the alternative and You saw it during this whole like, you know, Satan statue debate last year. There were some people from some legacy ministries that were basically condemning some of them for reasons of like it was vigilante violence or whatever, you know, the guy who tore down that statue, but.

But there I saw some arguments that were all also like well This is America and you know, kind of like David French's blessing of Liberty, you know drag queen story hours blessing of Liberty like They they just think oh, that's that's just part of living in this country.

So That's one of the differences. Another difference is like who has control and this parallels this what I just talked about but on the right You've had in Christian legacy Christian coalition type religious.

Right.

Organizations this notion of family values and now even just values like, you know, Judeo-christian family values values. There's been this slide towards broadly including everyone in What was supposed to be a uniquely Christian political engagement and there's all sorts of room for cobelligerency and politics.

But you want to be careful that you If you're supposed to be a Christian approach you keep that and I think the new Christian right wants Christendom they want a People leading the country who are Christians who have a Christian vision for it now.

It might be look different in different places. You could have a born-again Christian who doesn't understand policy and a Jewish guy who understands it better and you vote for the Jewish Guy that is perfectly possible and acceptable and different regions are gonna look different.

But the goal is the overall goal for the new Christian right is they want to bring back some kind of a Christendom. The posture is a different too. I think a lot of legacy ministries see Neutrality as the way to go.

I mean this is this parallels a religious pluralism but I Think that they look at it this way that equality before the law means treating everyone equally and if you treat everyone equal you got to Christians equally with Muslims with Buddhists with atheists, etc.

Whereas I think Christians recognize Christian the Christian right I should say recognizes that actually you need a justification for The laws that a society has which means there's going to be a religion.

There's going to be a God the God of Scripture has different views on What is acceptable than the false God of you know? Some pantheistic or pagan system that let's say you see sexual degeneracy is something positive.

And and so it's gonna look different Beginning of the country. There are anti-blasphemy laws anti-pornography laws, right? These are some of the things that the Christian right is interested in bringing back.

Whenever they might get the political power to do something like that. Where it's feasible and impossible and all of that and and so they they think that we're in a society where there's a death Struggle going on.

I mean that you're competing essentially with these other views and One's gonna win out and so, you know, you can't just be like well equality before the law Islam or Christianity like one of them has to win out.

So even in the Old Testament, I mean, you know, you had a quality before the law. But that didn't mean that pagan religions were favored just as much as the true religion, right? And that's basically what that means and then of course rights is the last one.

Rights, Hierarchy, and Voting

I'll talk about this is kind of controversial but you have individual equality for social hierarchy a lot of legacy ministries believe in a Version of egalitarianism and there would be limits to this because they would probably all of them say like well There should be a separation legally between children and parents and stuff.

But I think the new Christian right guys are willing to go farther in recognizing social hierarchies in nature in Scripture and then trying to apply those to the country. Now, this is all in the theoretical world.

There's not enough people that have been elected on the new Christian right to do anything about any of this, but You have some guys who have tried to rethink the 19th Amendment. You have some guys who've said maybe we shouldn't have everyone voting.

It should just be landowners voting the universal suffrage was a mistake. There's there's a guy. I know actually on the new Christian, right? He's pretty, you know, pretty prominent who? You know favors return to some kind of a monarchy and so there's these ideas floating around out there like that and Who has the right rights to base their privileges to you know like Things like voting but also I think you know gaining the benefits of living in the country.

For example, I think people on new Christian, right and this would parallel just the right in general and the debate going on between establishment Republicans and the dissident right but they would say that the new Christian right that You know people coming across the border.

Just because they had a child here. That doesn't necessarily mean that. That you know, they shouldn't have like an anchor baby because you know that person is necessarily now just an American because you know, they were just born here and you know.

This is a subversion of the 14th Amendment. I mean, it really does parallel arguments happening on the political, right? But but this determines like who actually has rights in your society. Where should the lines be and and there.

There are there isn't a time to on the new Christian, right? To draw the lines in places that used to be drawn and not The more open egalitarian ways that they're either not drawn or they're drawn more loosely today.

So These are some of the differences. This doesn't apply to every ministry like the the battle between it's not even battle. But the disagreements between like Moscow and Ogden Moscow Idaho and Doug Wilson's ministries would probably you know a third of what I just talked about.

They would probably agree like they don't want religious pluralism. For example, you know, they would want Christian to mower family values. So You know, are they on the new Christian, right? I don't think so necessarily.

Maybe they see themselves as that. I don't know g3 probably sees them as that but they're you know there's some hybrids and stuff in this but I Think you'll broadly speaking. This is what we're looking at.

This is the emerging movement of new Christian, right guys. This is where they're going and they're moving away from the things on the left side of this chart or you know list of Differences, so I hope that's helpful.

I hope that's somewhat clarifying. I know that for some of you, you know, this might not be that interesting because you you want to look at different theological categories and so forth and there's obviously theology that touches on all these things but a lot of this has to do with things happening socially and The reaction to it and and there's broader reactions happening out there that go beyond just the Christian world but the fractures are also happening in the Christian world and.

And some of this may need to happen. They may need to work itself out. But I am hopeful I think as conditions change you're going to find some people also changing their own Views on these things and you know as things even during Donald Trump's presidency I think some things will get better and I'm hopeful.

I'm hopeful, you know I would love that see national revival and stuff like that. But I think the trend will continue that things will also get more decadent if there's not a revival of some kind and That means that I think there's going to be people switching sides and I think there's an ascendance that you'll see with the guys who are willing to on the new Christian, right take bold stance and against the liberal order.

So that's that's what I see going on out there. I hope this is helpful. I hope this is somewhat clarifying for you. There's probably a lot of other things. Maybe some of you think I could have talked about.

You know, I don't really know exactly you want to hear more about patriarchy you want to hear more about Religious pluralism are you know Jewish people who don't have Christian values too influential in society, you know some people really get upset about that one and you know think that there's some blurring of lines and some neo-nazi sympathies among some members of the new Christian right and that kind of stuff because of that and You know, there's so many other things I could talk about I will say just briefly on that one all the guys that are any have any influence on the new Christian, right?

That I've talked to about that subject have all. You know basically distance themselves from any kind of neo-nazi type ideology. They're not Or said things very much against it and Even guys who don't focus on it publicly because they don't think it should be a focus publicly.

It's not something that is worth even entertaining. That's really a big part of the spirit. But some of those same guys will say yeah like I don't want to see other members of other religions including Judaism, which on the right there are a lot of In the left and the left has more but there are a lot of people who are Jewish and and also.

Well now we've seen the Calvin Robbins saying Roman Catholics is coming up as one of the things to Catholic too I suppose for the Protestant Christian right there that then they have a lot of influence and That means that some of the things that they value and some of the thing like like Dennis Prager thinking pornography is fine right, like these are things that are out of step with Christianity and so there is this concern there and.

And and this makes legacy ministry members feel very uncomfortable as you can imagine, right?

So.

There there's more that could be said. There's more application that I could draw out and examples and so forth but I wanted this to be short and I wanted you just to This to help you understand the categories and to think more clearly about it.

So hopefully that's what it did. I guess that's all I have to say today. God bless and see on the other side.