WWUTT 1125 Q&A Jesus Amnesia, Bible Rebinding, Woke Worship, Moore Kookiness?

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Did the man Jesus have no memory of being with God? What is woke worship?

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What do we need to know about it? And did you hear about the latest thing that went on with Beth Moore and Christine Kane? The answers to these questions and others when we

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Understand the Town. We've had a few questions submitted to us and we're going to hold on to a few of them until next week because they'll take a little bit longer to answer because we have in store for you some interviews.

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That's right. So this time around, we asked the questions. Yes! I love it.

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And so I've talked with Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lukes who does the

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Bible rebinding. We've talked about him many times so he's sharing his testimony here in just a moment. Also talked with Dwayne Atkinson at The Bar podcast.

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I've been on The Bar before but he's not been on What before. What? That's right.

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So we got him on and then talking with Daryl Harrison. I was hoping to get him and Virgil at the same time but I think

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Virgil had left right when I got over to Daryl. But of course they're from Just Thinking which is part of The Bar podcast network and they did a live podcast.

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That was awesome. I got to sit in on that. I was so excited. Becky and Sonya went to that.

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We jetted off. They abandoned me. I was left alone at the table fending for myself.

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I actually didn't know what I was doing. I'm so sorry.

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They had set the table up and systematized everything and I'm like, um, what am I doing here?

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I'm just going to shake hands and talk to people. That's so funny. I'm sorry. We got a great location this year.

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If you remember coming to the table last year, we were way back in the corner. Which was okay. It worked out. It was, right.

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Because people would come and talk to us and we had a lot of room over there. This time around we're more centrally located and we're directly across from where James White and Rich were sitting from Alpha and Omega.

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At one point, they were sitting there and everybody that was around our table went over there.

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I was like, oh good. I've got time to eat my sandwich now. Then we're right next to Steve Lawson too.

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One passion table is right next to ours. That was so amazing to see him interact with everybody.

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Yes. That was so cool. But we picked up, in his line that was waiting to talk to him in person, we picked up some of their people.

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We're like, hey, have you heard about us? While they were waiting. It's a line forming by our table. Some people were apologizing.

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We're sorry for standing in the way. No, no, no. Here's a pamphlet. It was awesome. We passed out all our pamphlets today.

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We did. We went through 100 pamphlets. Yesterday, I guess. Yes, Thursday. Oh, man. We were out in one day.

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My parents live in Atlanta and so my dad is attempting to print some more of the brochures for us.

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We hope we'll have some more to hand out. I don't know how that's going to work out or not. We did quite a few books too.

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We did quite a few books. I've also handed out the pamphlets as a tract because it's got the gospel on the backside. Amen.

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Some unbelievers have even received a tract. You might be thinking, how are there unbelievers at G3? Well, there are.

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There are. But that wasn't where we handed them out. It was actually outside the arena. But anyway, so we're going to get to those interviews in just a moment.

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Oh, that wasn't all our interviews. Justin Peters is the other one. I was going to say, there was a proposal in there, right?

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Yes. Yes. So when I was proposing to Justin Peters, of course,

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Justin is in his wheelchair and so I was down on one knee and my recorder is red.

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So I'm holding out this recorder and some people were taking pictures from a distance and it's like -

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It looks like a red box. Yeah, it looks like a little red box that I'm holding out to them. So Dana from Kansas even asked the question, is he handing him a juice box?

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That's my recorder. It's a little red recorder. That's going to be the interview we'll play last.

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And I asked Justin about a recent video that went viral from Beth Moore and Christine Kane.

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Oh, okay. Priscilla Shirer, which actually is the way you pronounce her name. Oh, okay.

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Even though I've always been saying Shirer. Yeah, extending it. Well, it looks that way.

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It's like Shire -er. Yes. Anyway. It's just Shire. Anyway, so she had surgery recently, which was, of course, a very serious surgery.

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It was a lung surgery. Oh, man. Something very worth praying for.

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But Beth Moore and Christine Kane were in their car talking about how they were going to do some prayer march around the church and anoint with oil.

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So they had the word, Beth is holding up her Bible, Christine Kane is holding up this vial of oil and saying, this is the

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Holy Spirit. So the Bible is the word, the vial is the Holy Spirit.

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Like the Spirit's not in the word? Oh, man. So I talked with Justin about that and we had a little brief conversation about that and what

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James 5 says regarding praying for one another that you may be healed and anointing with oil, calling the elders to do that.

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So that's going to be the latter interview and you'll hear within that interview even the audio from Beth Moore and Christine Kane, in case you didn't see that video.

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But first of all, a quick question that we received while we were at G3. This is from Lisa in Bristol, Tennessee.

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And like I said, there's some other questions we got too. We're going to wait until next week. We're going to bring them home with us and answer those at home because they'll take a little bit longer and we've already got 40 minutes of interviews filled up for this episode.

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It's exciting. So Lisa said, Pastor Gabe, at the G3 conference, Derek Thomas said that the man

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Jesus had no memory of being with God. If Jesus was fully

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God, all -knowing and fully man, or as I have heard you say, very God and very man, and considering that Jesus prayed in John 17 5 to glorify me in your presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed, how can this be that Jesus had no memory of being with God?

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Or did I misunderstand what he said? I will also ask my pastor, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

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Well, thank you so much, Lisa. It was a pleasure to have you come by the table. Yeah, twice. Yes. Three times,

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I think, maybe. I don't know. She walked by a few times. I'll recognize her tomorrow, Friday, or on Friday.

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Yes. I'll see her again. And we've had several folks come by. You can come by more than once. We'd love to see you.

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Yes, please. And stop and say hi more than once, too. That's right. We can show you the talking. So we have to believe, to some degree, that Jesus did not have a certain amount of recollection of his presence with the

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Father, because there are statements that we have in Scripture, like, for example, in Matthew 24, in the

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Olivet Discourse, when Jesus is talking about what to expect on that day. He says in Matthew 24, 36,

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But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the

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Son, but the Father alone. So there were some things. There was knowledge that Jesus gave up in becoming man.

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So to some degree, we do acknowledge that there was a kind of amnesia.

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Yes. A fogginess. Or, what did they call it, dim, like the dim glass.

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I was about to say, are you just about to call Jesus dim -witted? No! Oh my goodness.

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You're so bad. No. I mean, the dim glass, where you can't see everything clearly yet.

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Right, where Paul talks about that in 1 Corinthians 13. Yes. I get it, I know, but it was still kind of funny.

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I had to sneak a funny in there. And then we also have, in Luke chapter 2, that after Jesus submitted himself to Mary and Joseph, it said that in Luke 2, 52,

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Jesus increased in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and man.

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So to increase is going to indicate that he is growing in something.

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He lacked something in wisdom. And so this was certainly things that he was learning, that he was growing into as he was progressing as a man.

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Very God, very man is the statement that I've used. By the way, I get that from R .C. Sproul. So instead of fully

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God, fully man, which can be confusing, so how can you be both at the same time? We say rather, in Latin, vera homo, vera

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Deus, he is very God and very man. And still, the fully God, fully man, it's still the same aspect, but it's just better to word it as we would understand him to be very

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God and very man. As a man, were there things that Jesus did not remember about heaven or time with the

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Father? Certainly. There were at least some things he did not remember. Here's our air conditioner in our hotel room kicking on right now.

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But did he have, as Derek Thomas said, did he have no recollection?

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Jesus had no memory of being with God. Consider, first of all,

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Luke 16, because it's there in Luke 16 where Jesus talks about the rich man and Lazarus.

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The rich man went to a place of torment. Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom, or what we would consider paradise or heaven.

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And Jesus is telling this story. Who could tell this story but Jesus, who's actually seen the other side and can tell us about those things, who can relay to us the character of the

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Father because he knows the character of the Father. So how would Jesus be able to do that unless he had some memory of those things of the other side?

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The transfiguration on the Mount of Transfiguration, what's being revealed to the apostles there is the glory that is veiled by his flesh.

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So there is a moment where he, before Peter, James, and John, takes away the veil of flesh so they see his glory with Moses and Elijah with him there as well.

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And there is a moment where the man, the very man part, is kind of stripped away.

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And you see the very God aspect of Christ. So anyway, I hope that makes sense. There is certainly some things there that are quite mysterious.

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And that's definitely going to be the case because we're talking about divine things. So they're always going to be even somewhat confusing and mysterious to us.

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And even to explain it in words is impossible. Right. So very good question,

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Lisa. I appreciate that. And without further ado, this is our first testimony. The Bible that I was reading from here is made and bound by Jeffrey Rice at Post Tenebrous Luke's Bible Rebinding.

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And I had the chance to catch up with Jeffrey and ask him how he came into this craft and how he came to know the

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Lord. So I'm here with Jeffrey Rice, who is the founder, would you say that?

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Founder of Post Tenebrous Luke's Bible Rebinding. I say Lux. He says

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Lux. I'm going to go with him while I'm with him. I don't know. I can't say that I know Latin any better than anybody else.

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I look to him as a teacher, so we'll just figure it out as we go. Now you've got this

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Bible rebinding. Now we call it a ministry. You certainly do ministry through it, but it's also your job.

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It's the craft that you have learned doing this to the glory of God. James White's talked about this on The Dividing Line.

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You had the privilege of gifting John MacArthur with a 50th anniversary Bible this past fall at Truth Matters.

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People are praising this work, this craftsmanship that you do in the rebinding, the leather work that you do on the

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Bible. I mean, all different kinds of Bibles that you've had at your shop. And it's been going really well at G3.

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I think you're just down to like 10 more left or something? Yeah, 10 or 12 more. First day. How did you get into doing this and making this your job?

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Again, first I'd like to say all glory to God. My whole life it feels like every time

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I try to do something, it just would never work out.

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I've always been a guy that dreamed too big. I was raised in American poverty.

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Most nights all we had was pork and beans. The whole family gathered around one can and we had different spoons.

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We moved around so much that I stopped trying in school.

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So there was one year we moved around six times, so I switched schools six times in one year. And I just stopped trying.

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I struggle with a stutter, I have dyslexia, I have a learning disability. So I just knew that school wasn't for me.

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I got involved with a gang. Well, actually I was kidnapped at 11. Wow. And then

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I got involved with a gang at 14. And so I was just on this bad road.

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I kicked out of school at 15, so I just started roofing. My dad put me to work roofing. I roofed houses for 25 years and I became a master at copper, like I could form copper around chimneys.

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And I woke up one morning and I just fell over, man, I stood up and passed out. And about two times

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I tried again, I'd stand up, my equilibrium would just give out and I'd pass out. And it turns out

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I got positional vertigo, but I didn't know I had PTSD. And so when

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I would get dizzy, I would start to panic and my brain would shut off from the PTSD. Wow. But I had bought a

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Bible from Evangelical Bibles, it was a Schuyler. And as I didn't know what

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I was going to do, I had applied for different jobs and every time they would give me a physical, they'd have me to lay down on my back and stand up.

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And each time I'd pass out. I was on a ladder, 12 foot in the air for an electrical company, lifted my head up to put a screw in and passed out.

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And instead of falling to the ground, I fell over on duct work and it kept me from falling.

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Wow. But I bought this Bible and I was looking at it and I said, man,

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I could probably make this. Hmm. It's one of the Schuyler. Schuyler's a real nice Bible. Yeah.

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Real nice $250 Bible. Wow. And my wife was like, there's no way. And I was like, no,

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I can make this. And so I conned her in to let me sell her Bible, which was a Schuyler, and I sold some other

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Bibles and I ended up buying some leather material and stuff like that, some tools.

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And I just started trying to do it. Yeah. And man, let me tell you something, them corners, the hand plated corners, that's tough.

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That's tough. I would cry. Literally. At this time, I was 38 years old, grown man, crying, praying that God would guide my hands as I was working.

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This is what I had in my mind. I was unable to work and provide for my family. Bible says, if a man can't provide for his own family, he's worse than an unbeliever.

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This was going in my head. That's the fear that's on your heart. And I didn't know what

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I was going to do. But I knew, I knew that I was His. I knew that I belonged to God. I knew that I never, even in my poverty,

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I never had to walk to my neighbor's house and ask for a sandwich to feed my daughter. God always provided for me and I knew that He was going to provide for me.

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And I would just pray and cry, cry out to God to use this to bless me.

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And man, has He ever. Yeah. And I have like, and the way that I go about constructing my

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Bibles, it's no different than how I would roof a house. It's no different than how I would flash a chimney.

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And the way that I go about advertising is no different than I advertised in my street life.

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Believe it or not, the way, you know, I was involved with a gang. I get known in the neighborhood, whether it was selling drugs or whatever.

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Everywhere I go, people knew what I did. I made sure I advertised myself. When I was single,

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I see a pretty girl I liked, I walked over and introduced myself. All she could do is say no.

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And so in this business, when I see someone that can advance me, I walk up and introduce myself, show them what

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I can do. All they can do is tell me no. And so I just took chances, man. You miss every shot you don't take.

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So everything else that you had done previously where you were trying to advance the passions of your own flesh.

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Passions of my own flesh. Now you're doing to advance the word of God with good craftsmanship.

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Yeah. God is using it. All the stuff I've learned in my life, even though it was bad when I learned it.

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But that same method, I'm using it to the glory of God and he is using it. Amen.

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And a big way. So one of the things I asked Jeffrey to do for me, my dad had left a

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Bible that's been his for over 30 years. It's almost as old as I am. And he left it at my house back in September, lives here in the

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Atlanta area. So I sent it to Jeffrey and I said, Hey, can you rebind this? I mean, it's old, fallen apart, doesn't even hold to the cover anymore.

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And Jeffrey rebound this Bible for me and we gave it to my dad today and he was just thrilled to see it and see.

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So that was something that was a ministry to my dad. I mean, did you ever think making these

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Bibles, you'd be able to minister to John MacArthur? No, absolutely not. I never even looked at it as a ministry until people started writing me and emailing me, thanking me because they said, man,

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I just can't put this Bible down. I can't put it down. And I want to thank you. We got one right here in front of me, which is my wife, which we got from you.

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So we talked about how you came into using your passion and your trade and your talent to work hard, which you even said you didn't know anything about leather binding.

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You just liked the Schuyler Bible and you thought I could do this. So this is a man with a desire to work and to do his work for the glory of God that learned a skill and now

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God is continuing to bless you with that work. I refuse to lay on the couch. I refuse to lay on the couch and let my wife provide for me.

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I had to get up and work, do whatever I can do to help.

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And now my wife at the time was a lawyer working at the county clerk's office making fairly good money.

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And because of God's blessing us, she has now been, she quit her job nine months ago.

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She works full time for our business. That's wonderful. So we talked about how you came into that job.

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Tell me how you became a believer. When did you find Christ and you went from the dead man that you were to alive in Christ?

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Well, 9 -11, I was playing, whenever the towers fell, I was living in a trailer park, playing hacky sack, drinking a beer.

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And next thing I know, people start running out talking about, we're going to war, we're going to war.

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Yeah. And some people were saying, this is in the Bible, this is in the Bible. And I was like, what are y 'all talking about?

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Y 'all crazy. And so I kept drinking my beer, went in there and watched what was going on. And where were you living at the time?

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I was living at a trailer park across the street from Nashville Fairgrounds. Okay. So you're not in New York City, you're in Nashville.

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Everybody's going crazy. I'm in Nashville. Everybody's going crazy. And again, people kept saying that it was in the

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Bible. And I was like, you know what? I'll find out. And at this time, I couldn't read a lick.

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I was kicked out of school at 15 for gang violence. I've always had a learning disability.

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I'm dyslexic. Yeah. I have a real bad stutter. And so whenever it came to school,

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I just moved so much, I just refused to try anymore. And so I found out,

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I was like, look, I'll figure it out. So I picked up a Bible, I'd read three words, skip 10 of them babies.

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Yeah. And eventually I could read five words and skip eight. Yeah. But just every day,

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I would pick that Bible up and I'd read it. And so this was 2001, 2003,

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I started going to a little Southern Baptist church. That's what they got in Nashville.

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Yeah, that's what they got. Plenty of Southern Baptist churches. We got lots of Southern Baptist churches. I was going there for about two weeks.

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I walked up to the thing, I guess I was trying to get saved.

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And the guy asked me where I come from, I told him where I come from, and he said, well, do we welcome him in? They welcomed me in.

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And I didn't know what happened. Four weeks later, they had me teaching Sunday school. Oh my goodness. I didn't know anything about that.

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I had been reading the Bible, stuff like that. Well, 2005, I heard

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Ray Comfort preaching on the streets on TV. And I saw myself naked before God, exposed as a false convert.

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And I repented, put my faith in Christ. And, you know, it's been that, that's the moment.

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That's the telephone pole of my life. I tell people all the time, like, you can be driving down the road and you stop at a red light.

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And these are things that, when you stop at a red light, and you look down for a second, and a car pulls up beside you, and just for a split second, you feel like you're moving.

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So you hit the brakes hard, and you need something to look at that you know that doesn't move.

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Right. Like a telephone pole. Right. To know that you haven't moved. And so, that moment when

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I heard Ray Comfort preach, and I saw myself naked before God, and I cried out to him to save me, that's my telephone pole of life that I can look back to and say,

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God saved me. No matter what's going on in my life, no matter if I have fallen in sin, that right there tells me,

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Jeff, you are a Christian, you need to repent. You know, or, no matter what it is,

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I can, that's the moment that I look back to, listen to Ray Comfort preach on the street, open air preach, and I know that God saved me.

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He gave me saving faith that day, man, and, you know, it's weird, you know, because, again,

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I thought I was a Christian, I walked up to the altar, I did what he told me to do,

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I told him where I was from. Right, right, yeah, yeah. I didn't know how this stuff went, you know. Tell us where you're from, and what your name is, and you're saved.

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Yeah, yeah, you know, I believe TBN produces more atheists than any sector in college. Oh my goodness, you're not kidding?

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Yeah. No joke. But I read my Bible every day, and every day

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I wake up, put my trust in Christ, and I just, I attend church,

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I get involved in church, I read my Bible, I pray, I sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs,

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I devote myself to the authority of Scripture, to what

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God has given us to live holy, and, man, that's what I do. I want to live holy before a holy, holy, holy

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God, and I feel miserable, but that's what I try to do.

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Yeah, right, right. Well, that's Christ, Christ's blood who covers us and justifies us before the

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Father, so, and this is the word that we find in the Bible, the precious

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Scriptures that God has given to us, that we may know, we may see our sin and His holiness, and our need for a

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Savior in light of that. That's the message we get from Scripture, and you've put it in such a beautiful package with the leather work that you do.

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So I'm so grateful that, the first time I encountered you was at G3 last year, so grateful to see you again here this year, and brother, keep up that great work.

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When I heard, like, I didn't know who he was, Gabe, I didn't know who you were, I didn't know your face, I never saw you before, but when you spoke,

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I knew, I said, what? Here's a guy! I've been listening to you since 2013, and I love you, and I respect you, and you are a pillar of the faith.

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Well, I don't deserve that, but I sure appreciate it. Thank you so much. God bless you, brother. Thanks for taking the time to share your story with us on the broadcast.

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Thank you. What a wonderful story Jeffrey has, and a real sweetheart of a man.

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Wonderful to meet him, but check out his website, Post Tenebrous Luke's Bible Rebinding, and see the kind of workmanship that he does.

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It is amazing. Yes. So then our next interview, this is with, I'm going to put both of these together.

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This is with Dwayne Atkinson of The Bar, and then Daryl Harrison of Just Thinking, which is through The Bar Podcast Network.

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And he works at G3. And he works at Grace To You, which we talk about that at the end, because he talks about some

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Grace To You giveaways they're doing at G3. Oh, that's cool. So I am here with Dwayne from The Bar Podcast.

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That's right. I've had the privilege of being on The Bar, and now he's on When We Understand the Text. What? Yeah, so tell us about this ministry.

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You've got The Bar Podcast t -shirts out here, and then you also have Just Thinking. I want to get ahold of Daryl over here too.

26:59

Sure, sure, sure. So The Bar Podcast started about four and a half years ago. I was inspired by podcasts to start a podcast, and The Bar stands for biblical reform.

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And I had a team with me. And whenever the platform built, we got to a place, man, where I was like, man,

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I would love to start other podcasts under the network. And that's actually how we got to Just Thinking. I met, you know,

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Virgil was on my team, and then I met Daryl through a blog. And then I was like, man, these two guys go really good together.

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It ended up being magic, man. That's great. It's a terrific broadcast. Yeah. And so we had, even here at G3, a live recording of Just Thinking, which

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I'm going to talk to Daryl and see how that went, what they talked about, because I know what they're talking about is here, since the theme is worship, they talked about woke worship.

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So what is woke worship, and what do we need to know about it? Right. So they're going to give you a much better definition of it.

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That's why I have them doing what they're doing. But what they covered, man, was the misunderstanding of trying to have a diverse congregation, trying to change a service so that it appeases, you know, blacks or whites, but that we stay focused on the gospel and stay focused on giving

28:13

God worship, not trying to cater to a congregation, you know, and that we're not required to have a mixed congregation as long as everybody has the heart of Christ.

28:24

Yes. Right. So that's the nutshell of it. Yeah. So you have the demographics that'll come out and tell you, okay, your area is this much percent white, this much percent black, this much

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Hispanic, and so you'll have churches that'll want to make the congregation. We need to be able to look into the audience and see exactly the demographic of our area, or we're doing something wrong.

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That's wrong. So yeah. So then the basis becomes the statistics and demographic information rather than God's word and preaching the word of God.

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Because God builds his church. That's right. Absolutely. He does that work, and so we don't have to move, skew, and switch things up to make that happen.

29:02

Amen. Yes, sir. So what's the future of BAR, and where do you see this going? So the

29:07

BAR podcast, man, I call it the locomotive. It's the engine that's pulling everything along. It's constantly, every Tuesday you're going to have an interview with someone, either a well -known or local pastor or a seminary professor, or you just never know.

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So we're going to be that constant thing that you're going to always have every Tuesday. My joke is, if someone goes into a coma, wakes up, and their notification goes off and says it's

29:29

BAR, oh, it's Tuesday. You know what I'm saying? That's right. So that's the future for the BAR, man, with Just Thinking.

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This is the fastest podcast growth I've ever seen, 500 ,000 downloads in less than a year.

29:41

That's amazing. And so we're going to really push on just little marketing strategies just to try to get more people listening to the

29:51

Just Thinking podcast. Those guys, they're going to bring the content. So it's just a matter of me putting it in front of the right people.

29:56

Absolutely. Yes, sir. Well, thank you so much, man, for everything that you're doing. Where can people find you?

30:02

They're looking for the BAR? Yeah, man. So you go to thebarpodcast .com, and right there is everything.

30:08

We have all of our episodes. And also there's a tab for the BAR podcast network, where you can find

30:13

Just Thinking and everybody that's in the network, as well as thebargear .com is also on that same tab.

30:19

Yes, get the hats and the t -shirts. Yes. Yeah, man. So you can represent and let people know who you like to listen to.

30:26

It's amazing the number of people I'll see walking around here who've got BAR gear on. Wait till tomorrow. Tomorrow is

30:31

G3 BAR day, man. Everybody that has BAR gear is supposed to wear it tomorrow. We're going to take a big family reunion picture.

30:37

That's on Friday. Yes, sir. Yep. All right. Yes, sir. Brother, all to the glory of God. Yes, sir. Thanks for doing what you do.

30:43

Thank you. Now I'm standing here with Daryl Harrison, who is one half of Just Thinking podcast, which

30:49

I've said before on ours, has the best name of any podcast, Just Thinking.

30:56

Because it's not just about thinking, but that we're thinking justly according to what God says justice is in his word.

31:03

Indeed. Yeah. Amen. So today at G3, and we're recording this on a Thursday, but at G3, you did a live podcast recording and the theme or the focus was woke worship.

31:17

Right. So our theme at G3 this year is worship. You were talking about woke worship. Right. What is that?

31:23

Yeah. So woke worship, we defined it in the podcast as another way of talking about what I call identity ecclesiology.

31:30

And with that term, we're talking about people who look for aesthetic connections within a local church.

31:38

So their focus is on pleasing their own personal worship experience by looking for a particular type of preaching, a particular type of worship or music, a particular type of fellowship before.

31:54

And those criteria have to be met before they will associate themselves with the church. So that's what's called identity ecclesiology.

32:03

But when you drill that down to woke worship, we get into things like looking for a specific ethnic percentage of the congregation.

32:10

We want to join a church that looks a certain percentage like I do. Yeah. So I can identify with that church ethnically or with regard to sex.

32:19

I need a church that's uplifts women or something in that regard. But the point we're making is that Christ and his gospel are secondary to a local church meeting your personal ecclesiastical perspectives and demands.

32:34

That's what happens in woke worship. That's what happens in woke worship. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly right. Christ and his word become secondary. And the focus is more on man.

32:41

It's more on man. It's more on you. It's more on you because you've convinced yourself that the mission of the church is to please you. Yeah.

32:46

As opposed to pleasing Christ. So we've inverted the role of the church. We've inverted our understanding of the church so that we make that understanding all about us.

32:54

Yeah. All about me and my wants, my desires, my wishes. The church satisfying me as opposed to the church satisfying the

33:02

Lord of the church who is Jesus Christ. Yeah. Amen. So somebody identifies the problem, but they're like,

33:08

I just don't know how to word what the problem is. So if I'm talking to a friend about this, it's wrong.

33:14

But how do I tell them it's wrong? Well, I think the one thing we need to do first, Gabe, is don't assume that it's a problem.

33:20

And what I mean by that, we pointed this out on the podcast today where we quoted Dr. King from 1960 where Dr.

33:26

King asserted that 11 o 'clock a .m. on Sunday mornings is the most segregated hour in America and that that has to change.

33:33

Well, on what basis is that an issue? Yeah. Okay. What quantifiable data can you give me that?

33:40

And even if you can give me statistics on that, where in Scripture is the church mandated to ensure that every local church has an equilibrium, if you will, of whites, ethnic whites, ethnic blacks, ethnic

33:55

Hispanics? Where is that in Scripture? Yeah. So if it's not found in Scripture, is it really a problem?

34:01

Okay. So don't assume, number one, that it's a problem. And I'm speaking to believers here. Don't assume that because the world says it's a problem, don't assume that it is.

34:09

But in understanding a lot of the terms that the world uses, we all know what the fundamental root cause of the discord that exists within humanity is, and that's sin.

34:19

You have to go back to Genesis 3 for the root cause, the only root cause to all the problems that we have from a vertical standpoint, meaning our disenfranchisement with God and then horizontally with one another.

34:36

It's the same root cause. It's sin. But when you come up with terms like intersectionality, critical race theory, social justice, the social gospel, what these ideologies are preaching essentially is a different soteriology.

34:50

They're preaching a different salvation than what the gospel preaches because what they're arguing is that, and this is even happening in the church, they're arguing that the atonement of Christ was insufficient to deal with any of these issues that separate us from one another.

35:04

Yeah, okay. So that's essentially what I mean by them preaching a different soteriology. It's a different type of salvation that either says that the atonement of Christ was insufficient or if it was sufficient to any degree and that our works, including the church, we must be involved in uniting humanity under this one sort of rainbow ideology where we all just come together.

35:28

I call it the Rodney King theology. You remember what happened with Rodney King? Can we all just get along? Can we all just get along? Right. But that's not what the

35:33

Bible teaches. That's not what the Bible teaches. So for us to understand what these terms mean, we have to capture these words and then overlay scripture over them to sort of decipher them, number one, and then translate them into biblical vernacular.

35:48

You've listened to our podcast regularly, Gabe, and you know one thing that we stress over and over and over again, that as Christians we must be dogmatic about sticking to biblical vernacular, biblical terminology, and biblical categories.

36:02

That's rule number one. So never argue the world's logic on their turf.

36:09

You bring the world's terms and their concepts, their ideologies, you bring those into the text of scripture.

36:17

Under submission. Under submission to the authority of scripture. You interpret those terms through scripture, not the other way around.

36:22

Right. So that kind of leads into what I was going to ask next is like, so if somebody's hearing these terms thrown around, but man, what do

36:29

I have, what kind of time do I have to look into what critical race theory is? So how, how is it as we, we as Christians, how do we respond to people who are starting to push this

36:41

Marxist kind of philosophy onto us? What's the best way to respond to it? Well, again,

36:46

I think I have to go back to Gospel 101. Did Christ's death accomplish anything? Absolutely.

36:52

That's the number one question. Yeah. Did Christ's death accomplish anything? If it did, then you have to ask yourself, what was it that his death accomplished?

36:59

Okay. Now, a third question would be, what did Christ's death leave unaccomplished?

37:06

Okay. So what you have to do is turn their declarations, their declarative statements into theological questions.

37:12

So to understand critical race theory, you could break it down across several layers. But first of all, just find a definition of what critical race theory is.

37:21

Understand it from a fundamental definition standpoint. And then as you understand that, bring that definition into the word of God to see what's the word of God say about the aspects of critical race theory, of what it proposes to be, what it proposes to accomplish.

37:35

And then you get to the point to where you can say, okay, listen, you have to ask the question, does the gospel exist to unite the world to the church?

37:46

Is that why the gospel exists? The answer is no. The gospel exists to unite believers into the family of Christ because only believers are adopted into the family of Christ.

37:57

What the world is promoting is a different type of salvation and saying that critical race theory will bring this sort of Nirvana -type existence into the world.

38:08

But when we know from scripture that believers ought to be looking towards a new heaven and a new earth where righteousness dwells, it says that in 2

38:15

Peter 3 .13. So we have to understand, first of all, what the word of God teaches and then bring that to bear against what the world is teaching.

38:23

Their theories. Their theories are not salvific. Only Christ saves. So that's fundamental to understanding what the world's ideologies are that are being pushed against the church.

38:34

So I think of a quote from Martin Lloyd -Jones, we're actually just like three booths away from Martin Lloyd -Jones

38:40

Trust right over here. The MLJ Trust, man. All those guys. That's right. So there was a comment that he made once about it's a grave issue of man, that he's come to believe that if we change a man's environment, that he'll get better.

38:56

All we have to do is improve his situation, his opportunities are better, and then suddenly he'll be a better guy.

39:01

And then that is such a grave philosophy because it ignores the fact that it was from paradise that man fell.

39:08

Right. When everything was perfect. Yeah, exactly. And I've heard Lloyd -Jones, I've heard his sermon where he makes that point.

39:14

And you see, here's the thing, at best, what man -made theories and man -centered theories and ideologies like critical race theory, what they're essentially pushing at best is behavior modification.

39:25

They want people to treat one another better, but in order to do that, you have to commit the sin of partiality.

39:32

So and what I mean by that is critical race theory automatically and intrinsically by definition separates people into groups.

39:40

Yeah. Constituencies. Right. That's what the term voting also means. Right. So they'll separate people into constituencies, which innately is sin because the

39:52

Bible is clear against showing any type of partiality against anyone. You're automatically being prejudiced.

39:58

Right, you're automatically being prejudiced at that point. So they separate people into groups and then they apply justice selectively to these groups.

40:07

Right. So any quote unquote justice that is applied subjectively or selectively is not justice.

40:13

Yeah. It's not justice. One of my favorite passages in scripture is Leviticus 19, 15, where God says, you shall do no injustice.

40:21

You shall not favor the rich or the poor. Social justice innately favors the poor and then pits the poor against the rich, you see.

40:33

So again, if Christians are going to be successful in defending the truth of the gospel against these worldly ideologies, you have to begin by knowing what scripture says yourself.

40:44

You must study the word of God. You must study, study, study, and study diligently in order to be able to address intelligently these issues that are coming against the church.

40:54

Yeah. Amen. So that's how we combat the big terms that's difficult for us to learn.

41:01

I don't have time to study what intersectionality is, but we do have time to study the word of God. Right. You should have time.

41:07

And be equipped with this. That's right. So go to God's word and you're equipped with the tools that you need to be able to respond to these things.

41:13

Amen. Absolutely. So I think of Titus 3, 3, for we also once were foolish ourselves.

41:19

We were disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our days in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

41:28

So this prejudice dividing partiality thing that's being done, that's what we were doing before we came to Christ.

41:36

But, verse 4, when the kindness of God our Savior and his love for mankind appeared, he saved us, not on the basis of deeds, which we have done in righteousness, but according to his mercy by the washing of regeneration and the renewal by the

41:51

Holy Spirit. Amen. Exactly. Exactly. So the question again becomes, what did Christ accomplish? What is his death accomplished?

41:58

That passage you just read from Titus brings us back full circle to the original comment that I made.

42:03

You have to understand and ask yourself, what did Christ's death accomplish? Why did Christ come? What did he come to the world to accomplish?

42:09

What did he come to achieve? What was his purpose in coming into the world? You have to be able to answer that question. If you can't answer that question, then you're lost.

42:16

You're going to lose the argument altogether. Yeah. Well, brother, I so appreciate everything you're doing through Just Thinking. Thank you, brother.

42:22

I saw Virgil walking by here a minute ago. He did, man. He dashed out of here. That guy's such a rock star, man.

42:27

There's no telling where he's going. Probably going to sign autographs or something. Yep. If you listen to Just Thinking, you probably know him as Omaha.

42:34

So thank you for what you guys do, and you're working with Grace To You now. Yeah. So standing with the

42:39

Grace To You booth, wearing the Grace To You shirt, what are you promoting while you're here? Well, we're basically, at the

42:46

Grace To You booth, at the G3 Conference, we have a lot of stuff to give away for folks who stop by and talk with us for a second, not the least of which, you have a chance to register to win a free set, a free 33 -volume set of John MacArthur's New Testament Commentary.

43:02

Oh my. Stop by the Grace To You booth. I gotta sign up. I haven't signed up for this yet. That's right, bro. Just put your information in there.

43:09

We also have free CDs of some of John's messages to give away for free, and you can also register for a free copy of John's book called

43:17

Final Word. Just fill out a little form. We'll take your information and send you a copy absolutely free of Final Word by John MacArthur.

43:25

So be sure to stop by the Grace To You booth at the G3 Conference. God bless you, brother, and thanks for all that you do.

43:30

Thank you, Gabe. Thanks for your opportunity, brother. You're welcome. Thank you so much, man. So thank you to Daryl, and thank you to Grace To You for even the great stuff that they're doing here at G3.

43:42

Just amazing. So now our final interview is... Justin Peters. I'm here with Justin Peters, and we're actually right in front of the

43:50

Justin Peters Ministries booth. You're not speaking at G3 this year. No, no, I'm not.

43:55

I'm doing a couple of interviews with a couple of different guys, but I'm not speaking yet. And so you just get to be here and enjoy the conference then?

44:02

Yep. Just enjoy the conference and talk to folks, so I enjoy that. Yeah, it's wonderful to hear all the testimonies from people and encouragement and hear their stories.

44:11

I love it. Yeah. And John MacArthur's coming up in like five minutes, so I don't want to keep Justin from John. But one thing, we were chatting actually right when

44:19

Justin got here and we ran into each other about, well, Beth Moore popped up again recently with Christine Kane holding a

44:27

Bible and a vial of oil or something. Yes. This was a video on Instagram. What was this about?

44:33

Yeah. Someone sent it to me. I think actually my wife found it and sent it to me. So yeah. So Priscilla Shire, one of their friends, she was having surgery apparently, and I later found out lung surgery, which we hope she's okay.

44:47

That's pretty serious. It is. Yeah. So anyway, she's having lung surgery, and there's this video that Beth Moore did with Christine Kane.

44:56

They're in a car, and it's just the most bizarre thing. You have to see it to believe it, but said they're going to go in and they're going to basically storm the hospital.

45:06

She said, we are armed and dangerous, and she's holding up her Bible. And Christine Kane's there with, we have, she said, we have the word and we have the spirit.

45:15

And they had this vial of oil, anointing oil. So apparently the Bible, of course, the word and the spirit is in this vial of oil.

45:23

So the spirit's not in the word, apparently. Apparently not. I mean, it is just the, I mean, it's the, it's the charismatic hokiness, but she was so animated.

45:33

Of course, she's always animated. Yeah, yeah. Very manic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very manic. You know, and she said, we're going to go in there, and she literally, direct quote, we're going to cause a ruckus.

45:43

Yeah. You know, she said, we might stop short of, what was it, waving banners, but she said, we're going to march around the hospital seven times.

45:51

Yeah. You know, word and spirit. Oh, she said, I've anointed, Christine Cain said,

45:56

I've anointed myself, and Beth Moore said, I'm going to anoint myself with the oil. It's just, it's like, it's like charismatic lunacy.

46:04

Yes. It's just lunacy. Yeah. But she is hanging around, word of faith, charismatic people, and her theology and her teaching and her mannerisms are becoming more and more charismatic.

46:17

Right. Well, good morning, everyone. This is my... Chris, look how high my hair is.

46:23

I know. Mine's flat. Hold on, hold on. This is the story of our lives. It's flat. Yes. And poofy. We're on our way to the hospital for our friend, and he's having surgeries this morning.

46:32

We are armed and dangerous, and Chris hasn't, she, yes, she's got the anointing oil, and she anointed her own self.

46:40

My own self. Yes. So that I could lay holy hands. Yes. Yes. And so I'm about to anoint my own self too, so I just want you to know that we are about to make a ruckus at a certain hospital in Dallas.

46:54

So we're on it. And I want you to know the word and oil. Oil. That's us too. Right there.

46:59

This is it. Word and spirit. Word and spirit. Word and spirit. So do not worry.

47:05

Do not worry. Stand with us today, but worry not. We are ready to go. Armed and dangerous.

47:12

Amen. Yes. So somebody sees somebody like this do this, Beth Moore, Christine Kane, and I think they just love their friend.

47:20

So what's the problem with what it is that they're doing? What makes this so dangerous? Well, it's so dangerous because it's purely emotional.

47:29

It's enthusiasm that's not grounded in real scripture, or real doctrine, sound theology.

47:38

I'm glad they care for their friend, Priscilla Shire, but they would be far better served to pray for her quietly, not go in the hospital and cause a ruckus saying we're armed and dangerous and anointing people with oil.

47:56

That's not going to help Priscilla Shire. Now, there's all kinds of issues with Beth Moore, so I'm not even sure how much her prayers are going to fit her either, but I mean, there's all kinds of issues with Beth Moore.

48:09

But I mean, I'm not against praying for the sick. Absolutely. I have people that I know that are sick, and I pray for them.

48:17

I pray that God's will would be done, if it would be His will, to bring healing, which I believe that God not only can, but on occasion does physically heal people, but only when it's

48:28

His sovereign will to do so. But yeah, I pray not against that, but this hyper -emotionalism that is detached from sound doctrine, it's all it is.

48:41

It's emotionalism. It's cotton candy fluff. There's no substance there. So, yeah, and your little vial of anointing oil isn't going to benefit anybody.

48:52

Right. So what do we find in Scripture when it says, anoint with oil and pray that you may be healed?

48:58

What is Scripture telling us about that? Well, James 5, of course, you know, that's the text, and there's some dispute as to exactly what that is.

49:08

James says, is any among you sick? Yeah. Let him call the elders of church, and they'll pray over him and anoint with oil, and the prayer of faith, the one who is sick will recover, and all this text there in James 5.

49:23

There's some dispute about what that actually is in the Greek. It's asthenuo, and that could refer to a physical sickness.

49:33

It could also, however, refer to a physical, I mean, a spiritual sickness or a spiritual weakness.

49:40

And commentators are kind of divided on that. Personally, I think that the context more strongly argues for a spiritual weakness than a physical sickness, because there's nothing else in James in the whole book, and I'm actually preaching through James as I get an opportunity, but there's nothing else in the entire book of James about sickness, but there's a lot about sin and living out the

50:04

Christian life and Christianity and blue jeans, as James has been called, but I think the context more strongly, you know, slightly tilts in that favor.

50:13

But even if it is, let's just say it is referring to a physical illness, it is not a blanket promise for healing, because we see so many other examples in Scripture of faithful servants of God.

50:28

Getting sick. Getting sick. Yeah. Staying sick. Dying of sickness. Right. Elisha, 2

50:33

Kings 13, died of a sickness. Yes. And he had a double portion anointing, you know, of Elijah.

50:39

Of Elijah, right. So, and yet he died of an illness. We see the Apostle Paul in Galatians chapter 4 verse 13, he said, it was because of a bodily illness that I came and preached the gospel to you the first time.

50:51

That's right. So, you have these faithful servants of God who are sick.

50:57

Yeah. So, it cannot be a blanket promise, yes, if you anoint a sick person with oil, pray over them, they'll recover.

51:04

And the elders of the church. Call the elders of the church. Call the elders of the church. It's the one who's ill or spiritually weak or whatever, calling the elders to him.

51:14

Confessing sin. Confessing sin. Right. What do we see in the charismatic movement?

51:19

We see the faith healer, quote unquote, calling the sick to him. Right. It's actually kind of, it's what we see in the charismatic world is the reverse of what we see in James 5.

51:29

Yeah. Right. Well, thank you so much, Justin, for the ministry that you do. I know you've got Clouds Without Water 2 that you're selling here at your table.

51:38

Right. You do have copies of it. Yes, I do. Okay. I didn't want to say that preemptively and you don't have any out there. Absolutely. We've done that in our church.

51:44

So, I encourage anybody to go through that and learn some of the dangers of the charismatic movement, which

51:50

Beth Moore and Christine Kane are both heavily caught up in. And so, I know that they're favorites.

51:56

Women in particular love them, but we need to be aware of the difference between doctrine that comes from the word and doctrine that comes from the world.

52:04

That's right. Absolutely. Thank you, brother. Thank you, Gabe. I appreciate your ministry, brother. And that is it.

52:11

Yeah. So, thank you to everybody again for coming by the table and for listening to the broadcast today.

52:17

And we'll bring the remaining questions that we have back home with us. So, I hope you enjoyed our very unique on -the -road podcast today.

52:27

Recording from the hotel room in Atlanta, Georgia. What is it that Al Mohler says?

52:34

I'm reporting to you from Atlanta, Georgia. This is the briefing. Something. Anyway.

52:40

However, we close that. Let's pray. Yes, let's. Heavenly Father, we thank you for this conference.

52:47

We thank you for the wonderful people that we've met. We thank you for the messages that are being preached here, the gospel that is being proclaimed, the challenge that is being given to be right worshipers of God.

52:58

And when it comes to worship, we are to worship you as you have said you are to be worshiped according to your word.

53:05

I pray we understand Romans 12 .1, that we present our bodies as living sacrifices unto the

53:12

Lord. This is our spiritual act of worship, holy and pleasing unto you.

53:18

We're pursuing righteousness and holiness in the name of Christ. And so grateful for the grace that you show to us every day.

53:26

Forgive us our sins and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the schemes of the evil one.

53:35

For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

54:04

We understand the test, a daily

54:50

Bible study in the word of Christ. You may know the mind of Christ. For more of our videos and other online ministry, um.

55:00

You're almost there, keep going. I'm almost there. You got it, you got it. Visit. Visit our website at www .utt

55:07

.com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe. Yay! Thank you. You're welcome.