The Ministry of the Holy Spirit in the OT

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ.

Based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said,.

�But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would

remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for

you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial.

Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and

glory of her King.

Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry.

Pastor Steve.

Hi.

Are you to me?

Hi, Pastor Mike.

So that makes me boots, right?

You�re Dora and I�m boots.

I don�t really know much about Dora.

Tell me.

I know a lot about Dora.

Now, see, when I had little children, I knew about Barney and Veggie Tales and even the

Catholic Donut Man.

Did you know the Donut Man�s Catholic?

I did not know that.

Yeah, life without Jesus is like a donut.

Like a donut.

Yeah, because you have a hole in your life.

When I, you know, when we had, when our kids were young, it was the Care Bears and different, you

know, you don�t know the Care Bears.

And see, it�s the same thing now, you know, this, well, Dora�s kind of even old, but

the kids were watching like YouTubes of Dora and I�m like, who�s Dora the Explorer?

Well, now I know who Dora the Explorer is because, you know, the girls all went through that phase and

Dora the Explorer just kind of runs around, she�s kind of a helping animals and

helping people and, you know, just solving real simple problems, but she has her sidekick,

Boots the Monkey, and they speak Spanglish, it�s mostly English with a little bit of,

you know, Spanish thrown in.

See, I did not know that.

So there�s a little �ayúdame� and that kind of thing, you know.

Okay, Spanglish.

Well, when I was a younger father, Barney was really big and we needed to get some

extra money to get us through seminary and Kim and another friend at Grace Community Church bought a $500

Barney outfit, it looked real, and they would do these purple

dinosaur parties because you couldn�t say Barney because probably copyright infringement.

And they�d go typically to pretty bad parts of town in Los Angeles and have this party and then they�d make $100 for

an hour.

See, I thought you were going to say they go to churches on Easter Sunday and.

See, I�m usually the one that makes you guffaw with insider info, except now it�s

the opposite.

Oh, sorry.

Anyway, once Kim�s partner could not attend, so she said, you know,

�I, Kim, will do all the coordinating and stuff and, Mike, just you be in the Barney outfit.

� Oh, great.

It was awful.

It was like, it wouldn�t fit, stuck on my head, �I�m Barney, boop, boop.

� Does Barney even say anything?

�I love you, you love me.

� He was awful.

I mean, I grew up with more of a Johnny Quest kind of mentality.

Yeah.

I like Johnny Quest.

Yeah. Getting taken, you know, hostage.

My all -time, yes, race and those guys.

Yeah, Joe Race.

Joe Bannon.

Oh, Joe Bannon.

Yeah.

And my favorite of number two cartoon was Space Ghost.

Oh, yeah.

Man, those were good.

Really good.

What was it?

They had a monkey named Boots, I think.

No.

But they did have a monkey in Space Ghost.

Yeah, but I don�t remember.

Space Ghost.

Yeah.

You can YouTube some of those.

Yes, you can.

A lot of good stuff on YouTube.

When I watch those, I think about earnestly contending for the faith.

You have to fight for what�s right.

Hmm.

Well, there�s today�s spiritual lesson, boys and girls.

By the way, if you want to be in a band, it�s probably not good for your health.

Didn�t the Megadeth drummer just die this week and the Beastie Boys singer died and all these people?

It reminds me of a Jim Carroll song or something.

They were just people who died.

They died.

The worst song ever written.

I can�t believe, you know, critics� this is why you should never listen to critics, by the way, the Jim Carroll band.

The critics said, �He�s awesome.

He�s the best ever.

� And then you hear like one song and you�re going, this isn�t.

Even music.

I think they tried to make him out to be the modern -day Lou Reed who you can�t really sing but it was this

edgy attitude where you talk sing.

Yeah.

Right.

You talk sing thing.

Steve, off the air just prior to the show, we were talking about an installation service for an

elder we had, an ordination exam set of questions.

And so you and I were on a panel and we were asking questions.

And you said to me afterwards, the only time I felt bad for Pardeep, the candidate,

was when?

Now, remember, we ask all kinds of questions and I don�t think there was any progression, eternal sonship

progressions or Phil O�Keith.

No.

I mean, the questions weren�t really � they weren�t terrible.

You know, I mean, they were difficult, difficult enough to where, you know, I�m sure a lot of people because there was a pretty

good crowd, especially for a Sunday evening.

And I�m sure a lot of people were just like, �Man, I�m glad I�m not up there.

You know, this is tough.

Let me interrupt you just for a second.

I did find out something two days ago that was wonderful.

Scott Goddard is a deacon here and a wonderful servant with he and his wife.

And he teaches a Sunday school class.

I want to say it�s fifth and sixth graders.

Maybe it�s eighth and ninth.

I�m not sure.

And his Sunday school this last Sunday was going over all the questions

that the students didn�t understand at the ordination exam and then finding the answers.

That is good, huh?

That was smart.

He�s one smart cookie.

He is a pretty smart guy.

I�ll definitely give him that.

And lots of questions were asked of Pradeep, and you said you didn�t really feel sorry for him until.

Well, until we were talking about, basically, I think the question had to do with, you know, please explain

the activities of the Holy Spirit with regard to Old Testament saints, you know.

And it was just like, and, you know, he kind of got quiet and then he got quieter and, you know, to the point

where I felt like I could hear his heartbeat and his breathing, you know.

And I was beginning to get a sense of what his blood pressure was, you know, and I mean, it

was quiet in there.

Well, Steve, I think, especially as you have been seated on that proverbial hot seat,

when someone asks you a question, and even in pastoral ministry and in life, when people ask you a question, if you know

why they�re asking the question, it helps.

But here we�re just throwing out one thing to the next to the next.

The only thing in common is it has to do with theology, the Bible, God, His Word.

And then just to get that thrown out, you know, if we said, is there any continuity between the ministry of the Holy Spirit and

the Old Testament and the New, then he would know where to go.

Is it possible for a spiritually corrupt Old Testament unbeliever like Abraham to

come to faith without the ministry of the Holy Spirit?

He would know where to go.

But we�re just throwing these things out, these 95 -mile -an -hour fastballs, and here.

He is.

Pete.

And then a knuckle curve, you know, at 65.

Pete.

That�s right.

So, we were talking just before the show about the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.

When you have to explain that, what are some of the pitfalls that you need to avoid and resources

and ideas, and what do you do?

Pete.

Well, I think some of the pitfalls I want to avoid is, you know, the typical, I�ll just

say, you know, dispensational view that there�s a complete difference.

You know, that somehow the Old Testament saints were saved maybe in an even, in a different way, but that definitely

the ministry of the Holy Spirit was totally unique that he would just visit

Old Testament believers and then leave.

You know, that there was no abiding presence, and now there�s a problem with that.

And the problem is, well, how did Old Testament believers obey God?

How did they ever obey him?

And if your answer is, by their own strength, you know, kind of the

proverbial solo bootstrapsa, well then you�re left to say, well, okay, so you�re really

telling us that people who are dead in their sins and trespasses or who have nothing good in them at the very

least, apparently have something good in them.

You know what I mean?

In other words, where does that come from?

Where does the ability to obey come from?

If it comes from something in us, then we�ve suddenly changed our whole gospel

thinking, our methodology, and everything, because now we�ve turned into the Pelagian, you know,

where we could appeal to the righteousness of men to believe.

Pete� Steve, when you have a problem that you have to solve, don�t you regularly, and this is a rhetorical question, don�t you

regularly say, let�s go with what we know and then begin to build that foundation so then

when we finally get to the top of that building, we have a sturdy undergirding.

And so that�s exactly what you started to do, where you would say, okay, and I will add this, we

believe that the Holy Spirit didn�t start at Pentecost, right?

He is the eternal third person, the Trinity, the Father, the Son, the Spirit,

God, subsisting in three persons, and what was he doing in the Old Testament?

So he was around, he was alive, obviously, he existed is a better word, and so we�re just building

those foundations, and he was there in creation, and then all of a sudden after the fall, to

reiterate what Steve said, how could anybody come to faith in

Yahweh without the ministry of the Holy Spirit?

Without faith, it�s impossible to please God, and there�s no way anybody could possibly please God, and then when we realize faith is a

gift, he�s got to be quickened, he�s got to be regenerated, and all those things, it�s just impossible.

Depravity demands the Spirit of God�s activity in the life of every Old Testament believer.

Pete.

So, I mean, basically you come up with the notion that either the New Testament is giving us brand new

information about the Holy Spirit and the ministry of the Holy Spirit, or that we�re

just coming to a more full understanding of what the Holy Spirit�s always been doing.

Paul.

And some of this, along those same lines, Steve, we have progressive revelation in scripture.

So, now we have the complete canon, and we can look back and say, okay, Abraham, Abraham

we�ve learned from, of course, Genesis 12, 15, 17, 21, but from Romans

4, God granted him belief and he believed in Yahweh as Yahweh had revealed

himself, and he was declared righteous.

Abraham was a believer, but how did he one day go from worshiping the

moon God in Ur, howling at the moon almost, and then now say, no, there�s

only one God?

How do you explain that?

Pete.

How do you go from being Warren Zevon to Abraham?

Steve.

Because spiritually, he was like the headless Thompson Gunner.

Pete.

But I mean, you said it earlier, you know, Hebrews 6 says without, or Hebrews 11, sorry,

and I think it is about verse 6 says, you know, without faith it is impossible to please God, and it goes on by faith,

by faith, by faith.

Well, okay, now how did all those Old Testament believers

obtain their faith?

Because we say it was on their, you know, they examined the facts and they decided, you know, out of

their own moral neutrality.

Steve.

Yes, everything was equal.

Steve.

Steve, I think when we approach this problem, if dispensationalism

seeps in, let�s just call it ultra or uber dispensationalism seeps in, we might have a

little, we will have more discontinuity.

And if Arminianism seeps in, and sometimes dispensationalists are Arminians, not always,

then we're going to have some more discontinuity.

Describe to our listeners when we talk about discontinuity and continuity, what's the playing

field there?

What are we referring to?

Pete.

Well, we're talking about Old Testament, New Testament, you know, did God operate in

a dramatically different way in the Old Testament than he does in the New Testament, you know, or is it similar?

And you know, if you're covenantal, you'll say that he operated in exactly the same way.

If you're -.

Steve.

Or at least more continuity.

Pete.

Right.

Right.

But I mean, it's kind of a spectrum.

So, you know, on one side, you'll have covenantal and the other end, you'll have, you know, uber

-dispensational and, you know, as you move more towards the middle, there'll be more or less

continuity, you know, depending on where, but it's definitely a spectrum of like a one to

ten on one side or negative ten, you know, and then zero to ten on the other side.

So, yeah.

Steve.

So, we think that the Holy Spirit, we know he existed in the Old Testament and for anyone to get saved,

it had to be his job to, or his prerogative to regenerate.

And if anybody wanted to say no to sin in the Old Testament, could they do that on their own?

I mean, yes to righteousness, the Spirit of God had to be dealing with those people in a soteriological

way.

That's got to be a fact.

Yes?

Steve.

Oh, on a side note, this first came to light to me when I was in seminary when I had George Zemeck,

Dr. Zemeck, talked about continuity between the Old Testament's,

the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and new.

And he had us read a book by Leon Wood, I think it was the Ministry of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.

Pete.

Which is sitting on my desk right now.

Steve.

Is it?

Pete.

Yes.

Steve.

Amazing.

And if you don't have that book, I just sent this out to the elders the other day.

Were Old Testament Believers Indwelt by the Spirit?

By Robert McCabe, professor of Old Testament at Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary in

Allen Park, Michigan.

And I think McCabe does at a scholastic level, at a scholarly journal level.

These are the issues and here's how we have to think about this properly, a good overview.

I really liked it.

And what he's basically saying is forget dispensationalism, Arminianism and all that

stuff.

Let's look at some of the words like indwelt.

In other words, were the Old Testament Believers Indwelt by the Spirit?

Was there just an abiding presence?

I think Walvoord uses that word, abiding presence.

I was taught, and you know this because it's just one of my favorite things to say, I don't remember much of seminary,

but I do remember this, that the Holy Spirit's ministry in the Old Testament was a permanent, abiding,

soteriological presence.

But leaving room for the corporate indwelling that would happen when the church started.

Yeah.

I don't remember what I, I mean, all I remember is talking about the, my favorite

Old Testament Holy Spirit deal was the eternal spiration of the

Spirit.

I'd say that's what I, I remember hearing that and just going, I have never heard of that before in my life.

But Steve, to this day, I remember you had a book promo

advertisement and it was one of those deals like with CDs or albums or eight tracks, you buy 10, you

get one free, these book clubs.

And there were some theological books there.

And you asked me about, I think it was Grant Osborne's, the hermeneutical spire.

I remember that day.

Yeah.

What did I say?

You said, we, something like, you know, well, you know, that wouldn't be quite where we are

or something like that.

I'm like, yeah, it was kind of like, yeah, don't get that one.

And, and now looking back, there is a hermeneutical spiral in terms of

exegesis influencing theology and influencing hermeneutics and back and around, where do we stop

and analogy of faith and everything.

But early on, that wasn't the most conservative hermeneutics book.

And so, I didn't want you to read that.

Definitely not.

Now, in the, in the article by McRae, where Old Testament believers indwelt by

the Spirit, he says something fascinating to me, Steve, that the technical word indwelt or the biblical word

indwelt is not used in either the Old Testament or New Testament.

It's not?

It's not.

Well, no English words are used.

It's like when the Jehovah's Witnesses come to the door, yeah, do you know the word Trinity is not in the Bible?

I mean, can you just think of about anything more ludicrous?

Yeah.

Well, did you know Jehovah's not in the Bible either?

I know.

You know, so, because it would be Yahweh, not Jehovah.

My favorite little snarky comeback line is, really, the word Trinity is not in the Bible?

I didn't even, I can't even find the word Bible in the Bible.

Duh.

While reflecting an agreement with the fulfillment of both passages at Pentecost, I've argued that these texts

do not refer to the Spirit's permanent indwelling ministry in individual believers.

Rather, I have suggested that they refer primarily to two new ministries of the Spirit associated with

Pentecost.

John 7 looked forward to a baptism of the Spirit that placed all believers into the body of Christ.

Also connected with this baptism at Pentecost, the Spirit anointed the apostles for their unique

ecclesiastical position in the establishment of the foundation of the Church.

John 14 anticipated this apostolic anointing.

So that's the kind of stuff you get in the McCabe article.

It's pretty good.

I like it.

How about, how about if someone said, and this was said to me here, Steve, before your day.

I mean, you got here and you were the sheriff.

You cleaned it up.

But when I was here alone, I had a lot of work to do.

This person said to me, the reason why the Old Testament saints sinned so

egregiously, right?

You got Abraham, not once but twice, hey, sleep with my wife, just don't kill me.

David with Bathsheba.

I mean, pretty much anyone you look at, I mean, even Joseph, you know, how he was treating his

brothers.

I don't think I can have anything on Daniel.

I mean, Daniel did sin.

We just, I don't really see it's recorded.

Dare to be Daniel.

Job, you know, he had some kind of dopey things that he would go through.

But anyway, this person said to me, you know this person, Steve, I think the reason why these Old

Testament saints sinned the way they did is they didn't have corporate indwelling.

They didn't have the Spirit of God in them because they rightly believed that the Spirit of God

would come upon Saul for an activity, come upon Samson to go kill the Philistines,

come upon David for a royal empowerment, and then David says, take not your spirit from

me.

He's not saying I'm losing my salvation, but there was an upon preposition that was used regularly in the

Old Testament.

And so, what did the Old Testament people do that didn't have the Spirit of God upon them?

Well, they just fell into all kinds of sin.

What would you say to that?

Pete.

Well, I'd say the heart is deceitful.

I mean, we, everybody, we all sin.

You know, the question is, you know, you're talking about these gross sins or whatever, and I just think, well, okay, maybe they

weren't believers, maybe they were believers who grossly sinned.

I mean, this happens.

You know, you can ignore the Holy Spirit.

There can be fire alarms going off in your head, and you still do the wrong thing.

I mean, people, that's just what people do.

Pete McCrae says, some dispensationalists argue that the Old Testament believers were not universally and permanently indwelt by

the Spirit, but that based primarily upon passages such as John 7 and John 14, only New

Testament believers were permanently indwelt after Pentecost.

In restricting indwelling to New Testament saints, Walvoord states, quote, while filled with the Spirit,

Old Testament saints could in one sense be considered also indwelt, but not in the permanent, unchanging

way revealed in the New Testament.

Pete.

So, they were indwelt, but it would change.

So, well, I mean, I think what he was saying is, you know, you could be

1 filled or you could be 100 filled, but there was always some abiding presence of

the Spirit, but it would vary.

And I don't know if you got up in the morning and rolled two 10 -sided dice to discover

what your percentage for the day was.

Jared See, Walvoord was smart, he's a smart man, and he knew the Spirit of God had to influence these Old Testament saints in

some way, but I think he's trying to reserve something special for the church.

Pete Yes, trying to reserve something special for Pentecost and, yeah, not

Dwight Pentecost, but the day of Pentecost.

McCrae says,.

Indwelling is a theological term that encapsulates biblical truth about the Spirit's influence, whereby he causes the

believer to experience the blessings and operations of divine grace.

In order to determine if the Spirit's indwelling ministry is restricted only to New Testament believers, the New Testament

data will be initially evaluated.

And that's when he goes through and deals with the two main passages, John 7 and John 14.

We don't have time to examine them closely today, but we want to refer you to this good article.

Is there a Jim Hamilton book out there?

I think he's got a more dispensational Arminian view, which surprised me.

Pete.

Yeah, it's got a gold cover,.

And I'm trying to think of the name of it, but yeah.

Jared.

What's the name of that series?

Pete.

It's not the mentor series, it's the, I could go grab it off my shelf.

But he has, he, you know, he shows a whole spectrum.

Jared.

That chart is really good.

That's the best thing in the book.

Pete.

Yeah, it's a really good chart.

But it just kind of shows a different spectrum of belief about the Holy Spirit.

And I didn't read it prior to coming over here this morning.

Jared I know.

Well, the good news is when I sit down to do a show, while I don't really know where I'm going

specifically, generally, I just have a stack of paper here and you just follow along.

Pete Well, that's why I get paid the big bucks.

It's interesting about justification by works regarding Abraham in Romans

4.

I mean, my default is always, all right, how were Old Testament saints saved?

And Romans 4, I think, has to be the default, right?

You can go to other passages, of course, and you could see in Hebrews 11, et cetera, if Abraham

was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

For what does Scripture say?

Abraham believed and it was counted to him as righteousness.

Not to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift, but as his due.

And as to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.

And so, how can you believe in something that you don't believe in?

And one day you just go, you know what?

Now I do believe that.

Pete.

Well, I was even thinking as you were talking about this earlier, you know, you think about Romans 5, the

sin entered into all men, you know, after Adam.

And so, all these Old Testament men were infected, they had original sin in them, they had no

goodness, they were dead in their sins and trespasses as Ephesians 2 says, Romans 6 says that they were

slaves to sin.

You know, all these things were true until they were saved.

All the Old Testament saints had to be saved by faith.

You know, again, Hebrews 11, all these things are all true.

And so, the only difference is, or the only thing we really have to understand is what was the difference in

the work of the Holy Spirit after Pentecost?

What changed?

You know, Jesus said he was going to send a new comforter.

Well, is the office of comforter, is that the difference?

You know, what is the difference?

Jared.

Yeah, in my mind, I think there is a permanent abiding soteriological presence, call it indwelling if you like, for the Old

Testament.

And then I reserve a special corporate indwelling for Pentecost.

Jared.

There you go.

Mike Abendroth, Steve Cooley.

Oh, we're going to Reformation Tour, May 20th to 30th.

Email us if you'd like to go.

Geneva, Wittenberg, and Zurich.

Pete.

That's 2017.

Jared.

That's right.

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