February 8, 2019 Show with Edward Dalcour on “T. D. Jakes & The Trinity: Should Biblical Christians Call this Best-Selling Author Our Brother in Christ?”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City,.

Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio

.com.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this eighth day of

February 2019.

I'm so delighted that after so many postponements and

cancellations and Edward and myself going back and forth having to move

the date of our interview that the day has finally come where our Lord actually

has provided us the opportunity to be live again with Edward Delcor.

He is probably the most postponed guest in the history of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio,

and Edward Delcor is founder of the Department of Christian Defense,

and he's the author of the classic work critiquing modalism today called A

Definitive Look at Oneness Theology in the Light of Biblical Trinitarianism.

Today we're going to be addressing T .D. Jakes and the Trinity.

Should biblical Christians call this best -selling author our brother in Christ?

We're also going to be announcing the upcoming Bible conference where Edward Delcor is among other

speakers on the roster.

The Bible conference in Mechanicsville, Virginia titled Behold Our Triune God, and it's my

honor and privilege to.

Welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Edward Delcor.

Thank you very much, Chris.

Yeah, it's been a long time.

Yeah, the G3 conference.

Yeah, that was awesome.

Good to see everybody.

Yeah, it was terrific to share fellowship with you, and I'm so delighted that you are

very heavily involved with my dear friend Joe Jakiewicz and First

Love Radio and First Love Publishing and First Love Missions.

It's just a joy to know that you are.

Collaborating with such a dear friend.

Yeah,

yeah.

Amen,

and

by the

way, do you

have

any updates on.

What's going on over in Kenya where our friend and brother Joe Jakiewicz is laboring right now?

I understand there's some dangerous activity

going

on there.

Yeah, I

heard

about it.

Okay,.

Well, hopefully we will hear good word from Joe Jakiewicz very soon.

Yeah.

Before we go into our subject at hand, which is T .D. Jakes and the Trinity Should Biblical

Christians Call This Best -Selling Author Our Brother in Christ, tell our listeners something about the

Department of.

Christian

Defense.

And

tell

us something

about

this

book

of

yours

that

has become a classic.

For those who are apologetically minded in efforts to have

dialogue with their Oneness Pentecostal friends, a definitive look at Oneness theology in the

light of Biblical Trinitarianism.

Yeah.

When you

say they, are

you

referring

to the

United

Pentecostal

Church

International?

No, no.

Yes, and

of

course the

palpable irony

of the Trinity

Broadcasting

Network allowing.

Oneness.

Pentecostals on their network when the very name that they chose to identify themselves.

With is

the Trinity.

That's kind of strange.

Well, and I hear...

Yes, in fact,

back in

the early.

20th century, I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that the Assemblies of God

had the Biblical orthodoxy and the passion for truth in regard to

the Trinity that they.

Excommunicated the Oneness

Pentecostals.

Am I

right?

Yes, in

fact,

I've...

Before we go any,.

Before we go any further into the topic of our discussion, I want to make sure that we

begin announcing The Behold, our Triune God Conference, which is being held

in Mechanicsville, Virginia.

And in fact, I was honored to interview the pastor of that church, Knox Reform

Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville, which is a congregation in the PCA,

the Presbyterian Church in America, and its pastor is Jeff Downs.

Tell us about this conference that's coming up that you are going to be joining the roster

to present your own sessions on the Trinity.

Yeah, we...

In fact, if you

would

do me a favor, I...

Anthony

Rogers

is

the only

one of

the speakers.

Who is not a friend of mine.

I've never met nor spoken with Anthony that I can recall.

If you could give me information off the air, contact information, because I would love to get him on.

Before the conference as well.

Yeah,

absolutely.

Presbyterian

Theological

Center.

Yeah, and.

If you haven't had the time to share fellowship with Jeff Waddington, he is a friend of mine.

I really enjoy Jeff, not only because of his brilliance, but because he is,

for a Reformed scholarly brother, he has an enormously bizarre and hilarious sense

of humor.

You know, I wanted to meet him.

Yeah, I heard him.

Oh, he's not going to be there at this conference?

No, he had to drop out, so I

think he's going to...

Oh, I did not know that.

As Johnny Carson used to say, I

did not know

that.

Yeah, I

take...

Movies and music actually distort God?

I'm shocked.

I'm

shocked.

Classics,

obviously.

So,

you

find

yourself

repetition

here.

Well, for anybody who either lives in Virginia or wants to travel there, whether you take a train, plane,

or automobile, you can go to knoxreformedpres .org, K

-N -O -X -R -E -F -O -R -M -E -D -P -R -E -S -D -O -T -O -R -G.

That is the website of Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville, Virginia, where

the conference is being held from March 1st through the 3rd.

March 1st through the 3rd, and hopefully we'll be repeating this information throughout.

The program.

It's right...

It's a suburb of

Richmond.

Okay.

Yeah.

And by the way, brother,.

Just a request.

Try to keep your mouth as close to whatever mouthpiece you're using, or microphone, because you do

cut in and out occasionally.

So...

Okay, I'll hold it up.

And I'm going to give our email address for those of you who want to join us on the air with a question for

Edward Delcor on Oneness Pentecostalism, on the Trinity itself, or specifically

on T .D. Jakes, which is the primary theme today, T .D. Jakes and the Trinity.

Should biblical Christians call this bestselling author our brother in Christ?

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

I think it would be wise for us to start off the primary segment of our

interview today with as brief a definition

or description of the Trinity that you would deem to be biblically

orthodox, and basically the minimum that you believe

biblically sound Christians must believe about the Triune Godhood in order to be considered biblically orthodox.

Yeah, in fact, I'm sure you get a belly

laugh as much as I do watching the Lutheran satire video with the two Irishmen

correcting St. Patrick on the many allegories that St. Patrick

is drumming up to describe the Trinity.

Of course, these were not really the words of St. Patrick in the video, but I think it's absolutely

hysterical.

And it's also, I think, education, that video.

It is. Yeah.

As I have brought up on my program probably more often than my listeners care to remember,

because I repeat myself a lot, but just as the Apostle Paul, when he

was rebuking the church in Galatia, he treated those who were

duped by the Judaizers in the church in a much less harsh

way than he treated the Judaizers.

He called the Galatians, the Christians in the church of his brethren, and yet the

Judaizers he had held in a completely different level of disdain, and

he held an entirely different category for them.

He believed that they were damned, obviously, from the harshness of his words.

So I think the same could apply for the Trinity, where you might be confused,

because as simple as it may be to explain, it's obviously a deeply

mysterious and perplexing issue that none of us can fathom the depths of it

completely,.

Otherwise we would be God ourselves, if we could.

Yes, in fact...

You might have to repeat that last statement, brother, because you cut out.

I'm sorry.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Well, tell us now something about the main figure that we are going to be

discussing today, and the reason why I wanted to discuss T .D. Jakes

personally, and who knows, maybe we can get him on to respond to everything that was said today, but

T .D. Jakes is a greatly beloved figure

even amongst Trinitarian or professingly Trinitarian evangelicals,

perhaps especially in the African American community, but not exclusively.

I can remember after 9 -11, I was in a

sales meeting for a Christian radio station that is a part of the largest Christian radio

network in the world, and we were having a sales meeting on how to

have the best response to this, to give encouragement and

counsel and comfort to the body of Christ in the tri -state area of New York City,

and one of the primary, or should I say initial,

ideas that was presented to us in the sales meeting, I was an account executive at that time, I was not a

talk show host, and the initial word of

very strong advice that we had from somebody in the upper echelons

of the management there was, we've got to get T .D. Jakes here, we've got to get T .D. Jakes to come to

Manhattan to give a word to Christians on how we should be

responding to this, and I raised my hand and I said, excuse me, T .D. Jakes doesn't believe in the Trinity?

Oh, here goes Chris Arnson again nitpicking, and I was like, wow, I didn't know that

belief in the Trinity was nitpicking, and I also said, well, you know who takes this issue seriously about the

Trinity?

You know who takes it very seriously?

One is Pentecostals take it very seriously, and of course in varying degrees, but I

wanted to address T .D. Jakes because he is held in such high esteem even by Trinitarians,

and he is, I don't know if he still is the top selling Christian author

today, but I can recall back in the 90s when I was still working

for this Christian radio network, he was the, at least for a number of years, the number one

Christian author, and I use the term just because of the way that the book selling industry would

describe it, the number one selling Christian author that there was in existence.

So there's obviously, this is very important reason to address someone of his stature,

and on top of that there is confusion and a realm of mystery

involved into what Mr. Jakes really believes.

There are lots of rumors that he had repented of his

oneness heresy and become Trinitarian, and I've heard the same kinds of

rumors about Phillips, Craig, and Dean, which we could go into in a little bit, a very well

-known award -winning Christian, and I use the term as the industry does, quote quote Christian

recording artists, but that are one is Pentecostal, but if you could tell us

as much as you can about the origins of T .D. Jakes and bring us to the point

of where he is today in his profession, and by the

way, in fact, what we're going to do, so I don't interrupt you mid -sentence, we're going to have you do that when we return from the break, because we have to go to our

first break right now, and if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own,

our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r

-n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

Please, as always, give us your first name, at least your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, perhaps you are

a one that's Pentecostal and you don't want to draw attention to yourself, you are either

questioning your beliefs or the beliefs you used to hold, or

you want to strongly defend them and you just don't want to identify yourself, we could understand why you would want to

remain anonymous, but other than that, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country

of residence if you live outside the USA.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

don't go away, we'll be right back after these messages with Edward Delcor, and our subject, T .D.

Jakes and the Trinity.

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Have a great day.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnson.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today is Edward Delcor.

He is the founder of the Department of Christian Defense and author of a definitive look at

Oneness Theology in the Light of Biblical Trinitarianism.

We are going to be discussing today T .D. Jakes and the Trinity, Should Biblical Christians Call This Best -Selling

Author Our Brother in Christ?

Also, we want you to know about the upcoming Bible conference in Mechanicsville, Virginia,

Behold Our Triune God, where Edward Delcor is on the speaking roster.

That's March 1st through the 3rd.

And once again, if you want more details on that conference, which we hope as many of you as possible will

attend, you can go to knoxreformedpres .org.

And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Edward Delcor on T .D. Jakes

or on Oneness Pentecostalism in general or on the Trinity, our email address is chrisarnson

gmail .com.

And Edward, as I said before the break, I'd like you to give us as much history about T .D.

Jakes as possible, as much as you know, in a summary form, obviously, in regard to where he came

from, what denominations or fellowships or organizations

he has been involved in theologically because of the fact there is a wide

spectrum of Oneness Pentecostalism or anti -Trinitarianism or Unitarianism

out there, ranging from those that consider the

issue of the Godhead in regard to Trinity versus Oneness.

The spectrum ranges from a wide group of people,

beginning with those that believe that Trinitarianism is a heresy, that it's really

tritheism, it's really the belief in three gods, no matter what we say.

They would say that we are lost if we believe this.

And then you have all the way over on the other spectrum, a group that seeks to be considered

just one of many Christian denominations in modern evangelicalism.

They may hold their Oneness views with great importance, but they still consider

Trinitarians their brethren in Christ.

And of course, we cannot judge the motives of those individuals, how much of that is sincere

or how much of that is a smokescreen.

And of course, that would change from person to person and church to church, I'm assuming.

But tell us about what you.

Know about

T .D.

Jakes.

Now, how does Time

Magazine,

a secular magazine not known for its high view of.

Christianity, how do they come up with a criteria that gives them the

so -called right to choose.

America's best pastor?

If you look at the most popular preachers, you know, you got Jakes, you

got...

Oh yeah, he

has a

great

oratory gift.

He's

mesmerizing.

I think

he speaks

with great

authority.

And his God -given voice adds to that.

I mean, he has a great voice, has a great radio voice, better than mine.

But as far as official affiliation or denominational ties, has he

changed over the years and what denomination or affiliation he has had?

Has he been always independent?

You know, because as we've said before, you have the United Pentecostal Church International.

Even Robert Sabin, who used to be a part of that denomination, left and is a

part of the apostolic groups, which very often when you see the word apostolic, I'm sure you would agree,

very often, not always, but very often there is a tie to oneness theology.

But he has a much more kinder and gentler version of that than he used to in

that he views Trinitarians as his brothers.

I'm speaking of Robert Sabin, and I'm assuming T .D. Jakes does as well.

So if you could tell us about Jake's denominational affiliation, and if he ever was

a vehement oneness Pentecostal to the.

Degree

that

he

would

view

Trinitarians

as

false

believers.

I would

guess

that

since

oneness.

Theology represents a tiny minority of professing Christians, and I

emphasize the word professing, that he would be horrified at the notion

of losing followers from the Trinitarian base, because they have to make up the majority of those.

If he is a best -selling author, there's no way that the majority of those purchasing his books could be one that's

Pentecostal.

Yeah,

tell us

specifically,

especially

for

those who have no idea what you're speaking about,.

The Elephant Room.

Tell us about the Elephant Room, who participated in it, and the specific

episode, for lack of a better term, of the Elephant Room that involved T .D. Jakes.

And I understand that he was being addressed by the term brother,

and so on.

But if you could,.

Let our listeners

know

about

the

Elephant

Room.

Absolutely.

Well, he is

saying

that.

Perhaps people who believe in the Trinity are viewed as believing in three gods,

tritheists,.

According

to

them,

versus

the Trinity.

It's

obviously an accusation that Trinitarianism is

not

monotheism.

Yeah,

I

don't

even

understand

that

statement.

Right,

that looked

like him.

Yeah,

that is strange.

Yeah, he did

make three.

Those

are roles,

not personal distinctions.

Yeah,

exactly.

I

am

the

father,

in

the father?

I

am,

A

.M.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Now,

that

was a deal.

If

you

could

actually

tell

our listeners

what

that

is, because I don't think we ever described, what is the Elephant Room?

You know, it's similar.

And.

Who are the hosts of this, especially the ones that were involved in the T .D. Jakes interview?

Back

then, it

was Hester.

And by the way, I don't want anybody to hate me, but I have heard James.

McDonald say some excellent things, and I actually read a book by him that I thought was excellent.

But in fact, Ted Tripp, a very well -known Reformed theologian,

has a very high regard and close friendship with James McDonald.

But I just thought I'd throw that out there.

Oh,

yeah.

By

the way, I

have to

quickly correct myself.

I think I said Ted Tripp has a close.

Friendship with James McDonald.

It's his brother, Paul.

I'm sorry, Ted, if I caused you any discomfort.

But it's Ted's brother, Paul, who is a Presbyterian and a prolific writer

and highly regarded Reformed author and pastor.

He has a close friendship with James McDonald and holds him in high regard and so

on.

But anyway, I just wanted to make a correction because I don't know what Ted thinks of James

McDonald.

I didn't want to put words in his mouth.

But anyway,.

Sorry

about that.

In fact,

let's

pick

up right

there, where we

left

off,

because

we

have

to

go.

To our midway break right now.

This is a longer than normal break.

So we have to have this longer break than normal because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida,

needs to localize Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to their local surroundings.

So they play their own commercials and their own public service announcements during this segment of the

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Please, as always, give us your first name, city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain

anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Edward Dalcor of the Department of Christian Defense and our subject, T .D.

Jakes and the Trinity.

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I'm

Pastor Billy Linhard of Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas,.

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Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS

Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of

God in the churches of our Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth

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I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture

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Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them

to all of God's people.

If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, and if you just joined us,.

Our guest today for the full two hours is Edward Delcor, founder of Department of

Christian Defense, author of A Definitive Look at Oneness Theology in the Light of Biblical Trinitarianism,

and we are discussing today T .D. Jakes and the Trinity.

Should biblical Christians call this best -selling author our brother in Christ?

Our email address, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

And also, we want you to be reminded that from March 1st through the 3rd, Edward Delcor

is going to be joined by Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and apologist Anthony

Rogers at the upcoming conference at Knox Reform Presbyterian Church in

Mechanicsville, Virginia, and the theme is Behold Our Triune God.

That's March 1st through the 3rd at the Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville,

Virginia.

For more details, go to knoxreformedpres .org, K -N -O -X,

reformedpres, P -R -E -S, dot org.

Before I return to my discussion with Edward Delcor, I just want to remind you

that Iron Sharp and Zion Radio is in great need of your financial support if you want us to

remain on the air.

We thank all of you who have consistently every month, sometimes multiple times every month,

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We would not survive on the air without you, and we would not survive on the air without our advertisers

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If you do not have a church home and you're not prayerfully seeking for one, you are living in rebellion against God.

So please, if you are having a hard time finding a church home, please send me an

email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put in the subject line something like, I need a church home,

help me find a church, something like that.

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Just send me that email if you do not have a church home.

And remember, this is a very important matter.

You are living in disobedience if you're not prayerfully looking for a church home.

Now we are back with our guest Edward Delcor.

We are discussing T .D. Jakes and the email address is chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

Before I go to any of our questions from our listeners, Ed, I want you to pick up where you left off about the elephant room.

And during that elephant room, it was a broadcast, right?

A radio broadcast, perhaps, or a podcast?

And so during that, T .D. Jakes, in describing his own conversion experience, said

that he was not born again while a Baptist or Methodist, which were the

denominations of his parents, he believes that he truly came to Christ

in genuine living.

And regenerate faith in

a oneness church.

Yes, and he

had to

mention that.

All the same things.

Yeah.

And

he

never

said

that.

He

never

said

he

changed

anything

from

what

I

said.

I don't

recall

you saying anything about him saying, I have now changed my view or anything.

Obviously,.

One of the key questions that should have been asked, because this is a distinction when

when Trinitarians say, well, oneness isn't that bad because they believe Jesus

is God.

Well, the fact of the matter is, they do not believe he is eternal, that as far as eternity passed,

they do not they believe and correct me if I'm wrong.

And of course, there are differences amongst modalists and Unitarians, I know.

But the primary or most most vocal group of oneness Pentecostals

believe that Jesus Christ came into existence in the incarnation.

Am I.

Right on that?

Yes, and no, they will

say no, we never came

into what came into existence.

Right.

And of course, we believe that the incarnation did not occur until his conception,.

But he existed eternally as the son, the person of the

son.

Yes.

The person of the

woman.

And nobody ever asked that question of T .D. Jakes, whether he ever pressed him.

And when he quoted, when he kept quoting First Timothy 316, which, so

there you

have it.

It's it's it's

a

mystery.

To me why anybody would think that the elephant room would publicly declare

that T .D. Jakes was now a Trinitarian.

He never claimed any kind of change that I'm aware of, from what you've said in his

theology or his understanding of God and the Godhead.

All right, let's go to some listener questions.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who

asks, Does as many oneness Pentecostals insist?

Does T .D. Jakes baptize in the name of Jesus only?

And what level of importance does he attribute to that formula of

baptism?

As you know, many, if not most oneness Pentecostals claim that without this formula of

baptizing in the name.

Of Jesus only, one cannot even

be saved.

That's an excellent

question.

Right, because that

doesn't.

Make a baptism necessarily orthodox, even if if words that

sound Trinitarian are used, because the Mormons use a formula that

sounds Trinitarian, and they are, depending upon what

theologian or scholar you're speaking to, they they would be accurately described either as polytheist or henotheist,

because they believe that their one God that they pray to and worship is a

more important God than the multitudes that exist.

They're not really monotheists in any stretch of the imagination.

I'm talking about Mormons.

And Jehovah's Witnesses, I think, even use a Trinitarian formula that they wouldn't

call it that.

They wouldn't view it, they wouldn't.

Understand it that way, but they use the Father, the

Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I was actually.

Surprised watching on the video, I'm not even sure why I was watching this, but a

Unitarian Universalist female minister was performing a wedding ceremony,

and she blessed the couple in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, which actually baffled me, because she's a

Unitarian Universalist.

That's interesting.

But anyway, well, thank you, Susan Margaret, and guess what, Susan Margaret, our

friends at First Love Publishing have provided for

you a free copy of Edward Delcourt's book, A Definitive Look at Oneness Theology in the Light of

Biblical Trinitarianism.

So make sure you give us your full mailing address so that CVVBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, can

ship that out to you as soon as possible.

We're going to go to our final break and take more of your questions when we return.

This will be a much more brief break than the last one, but please, we're running

out of time, so if you intend to get online and ask a question behind those that are already waiting,

please do so immediately, because we are rapidly running out of time.

It's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

We'll be right back with Ed Delcourt and our discussion on T .D. Jakes and the Trinity.

Did you know that all believers are priests?

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrell,.

Pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi.

God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called

Kabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans.

I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

What was I to do?

Could I just say, God bless you and walk away?

The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need.

Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there.

So if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans.

In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi

39443, or donate through our website bbclaurel .com.

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi.

39443, or bbclaurel .com.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is James Renahan, and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

The Word of God says, if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing.

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We believe that the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant Word of God, that Jesus Christ

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Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ and his church as a pastor?

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That's irbsseminary .org, two S's in the middle.

I hope to hear from you soon.

God bless you.

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528

-5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV

program entitled Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org, that's providencebaptistchurchma .org,

or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually.

Even many of the major.

Christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup, sadly often also

include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics.

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They feature Christ -centered programming from Reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological

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Firstloveradio .org also live streams my Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program daily.

Please stick around on firstloveradio .org after Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is over to continue

being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace.

Spread the word about.

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.org.

My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries,.

As well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the

pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

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And we are back now with our final segment of today's interview with Edward DelCour

on T .D. Jakes and the Trinity.

Our email address is ChrisAronson at gmail .com.

If you have a question, that's ChrisAronson at gmail .com.

And by the way, Ted from Tuscaloosa, Alabama wants to let you know,

Edward, that, let's see here, the Elephant Room conference

was in 2012.

So he just wanted to let you know the exact date.

I guess he looked that up while.

We were speaking.

Oh, what did I say?

I don't know.

I don't remember.

I think I said it was.

Developed in 2011.

Okay.

I don't remember specifically.

Let's see.

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania,

who wants to know, what good can you say about T .D. Jakes and his teachings?

I'm sure there must be something worthwhile in his sermon

library or in his.

Writings.

I

think

that...

And

thanks,

Arnie.

You have

also

won a

free copy

of the

book by.

Edward DelCour, A Definitive Look at Oneness Theology.

Make sure we have your full mailing address in Perry County, Pennsylvania.

And CVBBS .com will ship that out to you.

Let's see here.

We have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.

And Ronald asks, you mentioned Phillips, Craig, and Dean earlier.

They are a very popular Christian recording group.

And of course, I use the term Christian loosely because I understand they are Oneness Pentecostals.

I had read somewhere that the Southern Baptist Convention put a seal of approval on them because they

allegedly had changed their views on the Godhead.

Is this true?

And what can you tell us about them in regard to an update on what they believe in regard to.

The Godhead?

If

you

go

to them...

Could you

say that

that could also be a

Trinitarian's.

Explanation, but very woefully inadequate?

It's not detailed enough.

No, you're absolutely right.

Right.

Now, how would you respond to those

who would say, yeah, I know that they're Oneness.

Pentecostals.

I'm not going to join their church.

I'm not going to follow in their footsteps and their understanding of the Godhead, but I love their

music.

And I'm going to continue to listen to it because the lyrics of the words of my favorite songs

that they record are completely compatible with what I believe.

And I love them and I find them very pleasant to listen to.

In fact, our mutual friend, Dr. James R. White, at one time really liked Phillips, Craig, and Dean

until he found out that they were Oneness Pentecostals.

And his listening habits in regard to this group came to a complete and

abrupt halt.

And he said on the dividing line that he would.

Never listen to them again, if I'm

remembering

correctly.

What about,

not to go

too far

afield.

Of the subject, what about all of our listeners who just love, especially perhaps during Christmastime or other

holidays, they love to listen to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir because the

choir is very often singing Christian hymns.

It's not like Phillips, Craig, and Dean who are writing their own lyrics to songs.

The Mormon Tabernacle Choir, I mean, for that matter, there are secular artists who sing

Handel's Messiah and other things.

But if you could, what do you think.

About that?

I

mean,

yes, no one could

denounce.

Yes, I myself, I

get

kind

of

queasy

when I.

Knowingly am hearing the Mormons sing our favorite hymns, even if they sing them

beautifully because I know that they are worshiping a false god and they believe in the existence

of countless millions of gods, even though they only claim

to worship one.

There's no difference.

Right.

Let's see, we have, where was I?

I was looking at that question just a moment ago.

Oh, we have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York who asks, can we benefit

at all from listening to sermons by T .D. Jakes, just as we may benefit from reading

the writings of great men of history who were not Christians as far as we know, such as Winston

Churchill and Teddy Roosevelt and G .K. Chesterton, who was a Roman Catholic, etc.

Not too

long

ago.

Thank

you,

Bobby.

You've

also won

a free

copy of

A

Definitive

Look.

At Oneness Theology, so please make sure we have your full mailing address in Hartsdale, New York.

We have R .J. in White Plains, New York.

I know that his idea of the Godhead is entirely heretical,

but as far as you know, is T .D. Jakes actually preaching a true gospel,

and can one preach a true gospel with a false understanding of the Godhead?

And a

lot of

folks.

Thank you, R

.J.

You've

also won a free

book.

Get us

your

address

as.

Soon as possible.

We have C .J. in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who asks a question that is somewhat similar.

Do you know if T .D. Jakes ever taught or teaches now that speaking

in tongues is a necessary sign of one's true regeneration experience, and

do works come into play in regard to one earning salvation, as many

in the United Pentecostal Church International seem to.

Teach?

Perhaps

I'm

wrong

on that, if

you could

clarify.

Sure.

The

UPCI.

Okay.

Well,

we are now.

Out of time.

I want to make sure our listeners have all the necessary contact information they need in

regard to my guest, Edward Delcor, and upcoming events.

First of all, the conference, Behold Our Triune God, which is being held March

1st through the 3rd in Mechanicsville, Virginia, at the Knox Reformed Presbyterian Church.

You can find out more details at knoxreformedpres .org, K -N -O -X,

reformedpres, P -R -E -S, dot org.

And of course, Edward Delcor's ministry, Department of Christian Defense.

That website is christiandefense

.org, correct?

Yes, christiandefense .org.

Christiandefense .org.

I want to thank you so much, Eddie, for being on the show.

Let's not wait so long to have you back.

I want to have you back on as soon as possible.

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

I hope you all have a safe, blessed, and happy and God -honoring weekend and Lord's Day, and I hope you

all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.

We look forward to hearing from you and your questions next week on Iron Shopper and Zion Radio.