Reigning with Christ or Pastor's Panel Podcast

Hey Jeff, yeah, you still haven't sent me a dot post mill sir, man. I want that shirt.

Tonight I'm joined by happy. I'm joined by Jeffrey joined by John and I'm thankful for these brothers that are joining me for this Conversation that we're going to try to continue as often as possible.

Talking about God's Word and all the glories in it and learn more about him. So we can just fast in who God we can worship him. We can learn to obey him. And just see what he's doing all over this earth and and do it together.

Iron sharpening iron and learning from one another and we hope I Hope that this conversation is an encouragement to people who will watch. I really do and so I'm thankful for you guys. We may have some other folks to join us.

We've had a difficult time coming up with a name a Difficult time coming up with some agreement. I don't know if it showed up. Does it show up on your screens? I Don't see anything. Okay, I temporarily put in a name that I have yet to throw out to you guys and.

My opinion is that Is that if we all have any kind of a say that we all come up with a name that we truly like and that We know is not taken and we cast lots. Like the pastors panel, but you know, hey, I didn't see that.

But the one that I put up tonight that I haven't shared with you guys yet this temporary for tonight raining raining with Christ podcast. Right, what is it raining with Christ podcast? Oh Yeah, so yeah, you guys can chew on that so last last time we didn't have you with us happy and I'm thankful that you're with us this time to talk about one of the conversations that we had was with each other talking about The good things that we see God doing on our planet right now.

And we talked locally and we talked As far as our country and we can even talk globally, but I know that you Travel quite a bit and you see a lot going on and Jeff. I was hoping that maybe you can share.

You came recently from the g3 conference and I know there's a lot of brothers there who were doing a lot of great things and Maybe you can share with some of the things that you're seeing going on at the g3 conference with different ministries and and John you can Share anything that you'd like to share as well.

Anything that you see God moving and working and doing on this planet that you know there's so much negative that we hear and we see and we're just Surrounded by negativity when when we believe that Jesus has won the victory God is in control you know, we all believe that our eschatology may differ a little bit, but we believe that God is the God of the universe and Jesus rules and reigns and He's not weak he's not weak at all and.

We.

We fret too much and worry too much. So I'm gonna I'm gonna stop and Happy if you want to start us off. Let us know what you're seeing in America as you travel.

Well, you know. You know what. The pause of the traveling for one second, but I have really really seen is Which I think is beautiful is the advance and medication and.

The.

The medical field all across The you know in my state across the United States. I see that there's such a Love for the Mentally handicapped the hearing impaired. There's been new developments for The hearing where someone that's never heard before like we we take for granted now can hear you know, and You know that that's you know, God gave us brains he blessed us with doctors He blessed us with medicine and I think we kind of overlooked these things.

But to see these people that were once deaf now can hear or there's actually new developments in taking The optical you know the eyeball from a dead person and giving it to a living person and it works with some people and I Find that fascinating.

I see that just really Opening up so many doors for the gospel and It's just it's beautiful. Especially if you've ever been which I have a passion for and that's adults with disabilities special needs, you know but yeah, that's why I see a Advancement in the medical field that it's just so beautiful and it's helping our world so much, you know.

It's crazy that we overlooked that but yeah, if that person was in our church, what would we do? We would be on our knees we'd be praying for that person every day and then. They they become well, whether it be through implant medication, whatever it is.

They become well, then what do we do? We're praising the Lord. We're giving glory. So.

You know, also, yeah, I'm sorry and also You know because a lot of times churches frown at the mentally ill they either think they're a Nebuchadnezzar They got a demon or whatever and when you see them get back when you see them get regulated on.

Because I know a lot of people that have bipolar. They have a salt deficiency in their brain. You know that the gray mass of their brain shrinks and what this does. Is it help it helps it regrow? It's it's a natural salt called lithium and To see the church when they come into the church and they're all really nervous and stuff.

The body of Christ just Just wraps them up, you know and gives them what what they've longed for for so long, you know, and that's just the Just to be noticed as an image bearer of God, you know. And but yeah what I've noticed all over the country.

I've been traveling for the last two years All over the country. I've seen such a networking of the body of Christ. Like I've never seen before. You know, I've seen that that. And what you don't what what I've seen is Hospitality.

You know, I think that's what we've lacked in the last 20 -30 years to be honest, you know, but I see a hospitality. I see a hunger to grow in the knowledge of God and really people setting aside Doctrinal doctrinal differences To help advance the kingdom of God.

It's not about our kingdom. It's building our kingdom it's advancing the kingdom of God through the gospel and making disciples and how everybody is just Networking with each other and helping one another.

It's it's beautiful. Yeah, I.

Think what you're mentioning is just another aspect. What one of the parts of the conversation that we had earlier was What do we see? What do we see God doing next if we? If maybe there's some hints out there.

What what are we seeing him do next. And my opinion on that was I see us getting away from the big machine called You know our conventions our Lutheran sentence our you know, whatever the Presbyterians or Methodists call their you know groups and and we were getting away from the the corporate church and we're Doing what you're talking about doing?

Well, I see. Yeah, I see more people. I mean believe it or not It's just like being my so I. I just I'm up in Idaho right now. I'm up and pay it, Idaho my nephews is getting married and.

And.

This is the second time I've been with my family since I was 17 years old. And me and my brother Seth are both pastors and we're a little worried about our dad and our our uncle up here and so you know because they were going to a Nazarene Church and It was it wasn't you know, I you know that it wasn't a healthy place.

Not a care what what his name was is so my brother was on his way up from California. He asked me to find a Reformed Church so I found one about 40 minutes from here and It was awesome. I walked in I mean it was nothing but plaid shirts and beards.

I felt right at home, you know, you know, I was like, ah, hallelujah. But the pastor came in and sat down and with us afterwards and he was a pastor. Calvary Chapel that's really big in, California.

And.

And now he's reformed but I see a lot of people going confessional. You know, I really really do. All over the country I've seen churches of God become reformed churches. Church of Christ come become reformed or.

Yeah, but it's really neat, you know, well and especially in our circles.

I.

Baptist and Presbyterians coming together like I would have never imagined. That's crazy. I mean we covered.

I'm a Baptist and I go to a Presbyterian Church my brother's church, you know. Yeah, but I love I love seeing how bitches bridges are being built. Especially in the reform role between the Presbyterians and that reformed Baptist.

Yeah, I think that is just. Especially in Southern California, it's popping down here, you know. I'll shut up.

Jeff if you have anything to share from like the G3 conferences and all the ministries that you were interacted with.

Yes, so most of them most of the ministries that I interact with were for fellow vendors. It was a like I had a booth out there and so a lot of vendors that I interacted with.

Really.

Grew a friendship. I mean like like we knew each other from an online presence, you know with me having you know a pretty good following because I'm the Bibles that I do but Being able to see them in person.

Have a conversation talk theology talk About future plans. Talk about coming together and doing something together.

I.

Like there's there's one a group Facebook group or Something but he does a lot of wood-burning selling stuff. Reform sage. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and so I hung out with him for a little bit spoke with him and his wife and We've been texting back and forth and man.

He's just a really good guy you know and it's off. I Feel like there is a future opportunity for whether it be a ministry or whether it be. And some kind of business proposition for us both to to make some money.

But.

Other than that man, I was just able to meet pastors, you know. Men like me who work a job and pastor a church. You know our church planners people. That are in their first year or second year of planting a church mostly a lot of us because of kovat.

You know churches shut down wasn't a place to meet. And so the people who were not afraid of me, you know. We're sent out by other churches to plant churches. And you know and just being able to have a conversation with them the the struggles of pastor and the joy of pastor.

And you know, well, what do you do in this situation? Well, this is what I do, you know are being able to have a theological conversation or even a debate without Arguing like you can't do that on Facebook.

But as far as the g3 It's a wonderful conference a lot of people they get. You know, they look into one of these guys that preach like the g3 at the g3. They just pick a name and the next thing, you know.

Like if you Google him or YouTube him and watch one of his sermons then a whole list of other Great ministers preachers will show up on your on your news feed and you're able to go down the rabbit trail In here wonderful Expository preaching and I know right now a Josh Bice the pastor of The the church that started g3 there.

They're planning to leave the SPC. Because of you know, the scandal and stuff that's taking place there. Yeah, so they're starting what's called the g3 network. Yeah for church planners or stuff like that small churches where you can get plugged into the g3 network and You know, I think it costs like I'm thinking $500 a year but they supply you with your Sunday school material and it's biblical and and there's There's leadership Courses that you can take there's you know, I mean there's just a ton of opportunity that's going on.

There's a way, you know, like if you don't you know, like if your money's going toward Something. Some kind of a missionary society that you know nothing about well, if you get a If you get hooked up with the g3 network.

The missionary society is the missionary from Paul Washer and heart cry and you know that they're not pocketing any money. It's actually going to the mission bill. They sell books for like a dollar. Because they're not trying to profit money and that dollar goes to the mission bill.

That's all I you know, these people are just doing great things and I'm I'm grateful to to know them and you know If I needed to reach out to them I could just you know, just a great bunch of guys and so I Think the thing that I'm happy most about.

What I'm seeing and I know I probably didn't display this last time. And I wasn't trying to be a Debbie Downer, but I you know, it's just the the opportunity that's taking place right now. For church planting, you know churches plant churches.

Yeah, if you're if you're a church is rooted and it has been for 20 years. And there hasn't been a church plant come from it. Like what's going on people? Like how are we to disciple the nations? Well, it's by raising up men who are able to teach the Bible.

I was telling people not long ago and my church that my job is to raise ups to raise up men to take my place. Whether it be because if it's every four years. So when I established this church plan, I have it to where they have to every four years.

They reconsider me. They reconsider if they want me to be their pastor or not. All right. Well, I have to raise someone up and for three and a half years from now. Just case they decide they don't want to reconsider me.

But they want someone else. I need to make sure that this church has someone I can stand in my place. Also, I could die next year. Well, this church needs to be able to still be going. Yeah, and so it's my job to raise up men who are able.

To.

To preach the Bible. Well, well, well, let's say I don't die hopefully and let's say that they do keep me as their pastor. Well, it's my job to continue to raise these men up and as the church grows to send these men out to plant churches.

Not to keep them. To send them out to plant churches and to raise up more men like this is what we're supposed to do. Yeah, yeah, it's about the the kingdom of God. It's not about The Covenant Reformed Baptist Church as One single group of people.

It's about reaching our community for Christ and and hopefully reach in the world. So that's why I see. You know, I've all the negativity and stuff that's going on in the world right now. I See, you know.

And how bad this plandemic or pandemic I'm sorry is. There's some brave men who are willing to stand up against tyranny and plant churches.

And.

And I'm and I'm and I'm glad that I stand shoulder to shoulder with these men.

I think that's beautiful and I hope that that can catch on. More and more more churches that that philosophy of ministry, which I think is so biblical and you were talking about networking. I've been seeing that that happening for a while now.

Maybe you guys are familiar that you know, Paul Washer used to go to Grace Life Church of the Shoals in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. Jeff novel is the pastor there. I love to listen to Jeff novel preach and he has a true church conference at his church every year.

I like the Shepherds Conference and it's really good really pretty big and. They're they're doing similar things that not Marxist helping churches Become healthy churches. They're planning churches. They're doing missions trips and planning churches, you know, just like what you guys are talking about.

But you know, they have a network, you know. You can go online and say the these are churches that align with us and then you have founders. You can go on founders website and you know find churches that align.

And kind of have similar beliefs so that that networking thing is really catching on I think. And I think the the networking that we're doing at conferences and online. Really helps keeps us keeps us accountable With each other in our theology and and like I said last time.

You know if we have a difference we've got to be humble enough to say I Could have a wrong doctrine. I could have a wrong theology and and we can still love each other and have a discussion but the truth the truth is not always going to rise to the top and Falsehood is going to sink to the bottom.

Even if I'm the one holding it. I got it. Go ahead.

You know, you know, it's what I think what it comes down to is is. You know again, like you were saying like humility, you know when.

We.

Instead of letting pride and ego. Get in the way of especially when it comes to a debate a real healthy debate shouldn't even be online. It shouldn't be online and at all. It's it's more for edification because if somebody's getting let off in the air and they're not.

You know what I've always noticed is is we can have our differences. But what we coin a knee and what we fellowship in is like oblivions to we fellowship in the with the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's what really brings us together is the gospel and it doesn't matter if I'm right or you're right.

It's it's what is the scripture say? Yeah, I know. It's not my truth or your truth. It's the truth, right, you know, and so we can have differences on eschatology epistemology, whatever, you know, but you know, it's just Humility humbling ourselves and you know, sometimes you know.

You can't be the one that's that's down washing the feet, you know. I think the true humility comes but especially ministry is when you're the one sitting in the seat. Yeah get what I'm saying.

Yeah, absolutely.

John were your thoughts leading you. I'm like y 'all as far as the network and smaller especially smaller churches in the last couple years I've had a opportunity to work with churches that Could be extremely small to moderate and I don't know what I suppose that's another terms.

They're small and moderate. I don't know how large the churches are in California.

We're Tennessee, but in North Carolina, there's a church on every corner and Normal attendance can run from ten to a hundred and ten and be and be considered healthy for that church based off of data, but I've saw more of a harkening back to corporate worship.

Done maybe even enter the nomination like he's talking about some bad this.

Presbyterian.

I've been able to see some of those things happen and in North Carolina, that could be a pretty big thing. Can it Robert? Oh, yeah.

This this.

Kind of neglected group on the screen that I'm looking at even now is.

There's I am.

Rather happy. I am a church of God pastor minister, so in the past I don't think I would have been able to see it and talk with people the way that we're talking now without there being maybe. Maybe a little more friction.

It was unhealthy. I think there's a healthy amount of friction. I think there's an unhealthy amount of friction. One of the things that I've noticed especially inside of my own Denomination Pastors preachers that especially the ones that are coming up with me and after me and some recently.

For me it's been really more of a Let's get foundational essential. Get that out on the table so that we know who we're keen with who are who our brothers are and who our brothers aren't. And then if we have differences past that and.

And.

Whatever. They'd be what they are brother. Robert and I had a hour and a half maybe two hour conversation one time about the difference between.

What a.

Baptist minister a Baptist member Pentecostal member would have and I read my My church's Declaration of Faith and I don't always point number seven. Or point number six. That were almost word for word.

What you said. George was a true church.

I.

Don't remember exactly but I know there was some similarity.

Yeah, it was it was it was really close and then after that there was some differences. But those differences were all assuming you are already a Christian those differences were in practical application and how one might view sanctification and how one's convictions sanctification may be different than others, you know, there's some there's some variant of opinion on that and really I Could stand to be wrong on a great deal of things.

So that's why you see me listening more than talking whenever I've come to these things. I enjoy learning. You've had me you might see me look up a lot. I'm at work. So if I have to jet out I apologize in advance, but I've read more on Preterism here on this computer.

For starters I really didn't know that there was as many as many folks That I knew their names like Sproul. I mean, I've listened to R .C. Sproul a lot, read some of his works. I would have never known he was a Preterist which gets kind of back to the point of what I'm saying is there's so many things That aren't foundational issues that didn't stop Brother Sproul from working with Paul Washer or John MacArthur who I know John MacArthur has a very difference of opinion or Thody Bachman who's for all intents and purposes and all millennialist, these guys that stood on the same stage and heralded the same truth and and have done so well and.

Have.

Led many people to the Lord because their main objective was who Jesus is who we are And the gospel and just leaving it and leaving the other chips where they are. So I have seen in my small very small group more of a resurgence of necessities and this resurgence of.

How can I help my brother out? What can I do to help my brother through this walk. And more of an resurgence of the importance of the local church regardless of its size. During the pandemic, the plandemic, whatever you called it earlier. There's a.

There's been a massive amount of churches that couldn't meet didn't want to meet had a difference of opinion on what Romans 13 may or may not have meant in terms of whether or not you listen and adhere to the governor's restrictions and People turn to their small neighborhood church Where they've drove past them many times to go to a much larger church that may have had more in the way of programs may have had less in the way of theological debt and.

I.

Think it's a healthy thing. I think there are in a lot of ways what the enemy meant for evil. God God made a good thing out of it. Yeah, man. Yeah I'm gonna put this back on mute. So y 'all hear all the power plant racket.

Well, if it's okay with you guys.

We're about 30 minutes in. I think it'd be good a good time to jump in back into the Matthew 24 conversation. You guys cool with that?

Go on with it.

You know, you're fine with yeah.

And John you just jump right in there whenever you want to. You have something to add you have a question or whatever you whatever you want to do. It's perfectly. Okay.

I.

Know we we basically looked at Verses one through three. I know we talked about the questions that disciples had and we looked at Jesus an answer to that. I don't have a problem kind of going Verse by verse.

I think it would be very edifying for folks to hear our conversation. Can I ask a quick question?

Yes, sir. So John, I don't know you that well. I love your heart man. Just wondering what what are your views on eschatology. Are you a dispensational or historic pre-millennial Premillennialist I would.

I would align more historical premillennialist. Okay. Yeah, so this is just Looking at from you know going over Matthew 24. Is it kind of conflicting with you or you kind of seen?

No.

Granted I'm. Did you watch the last conversation that we had? Yeah. So there's some of the things that I can see where the What's what was it called partial preterist you answer some of the questions and I could see how you would want to use Use those that that rule in multiple place because it does seem to answer questions nicely and my hesitation to do so is.

It's.

Once I've got a new hammer everything looks like a nail and If you're swinging a hammer on things that aren't nails you can be destructive with other parts. So I want to I want to make sure that I weigh it all out and there I see parts.

Where the destruction of the temple in 70 AD can be completely explained by Matthew in Matthew 24 and what Jesus was talking about and I can see where Simultaneously, he could be talking about his second coming At a different time and they not contradict one.

That make any sense. Oh, no. No totally, you know, and you know yeah, I remember when this was all new to me too and but it's it's I believe it's really healthy to know all our different views and. You know what Jeff I know you're gonna kick butt on this real fast give me five minutes I gotta go take my meds and I'll be right back.

Okay, I'm gonna leave this on. Okay. Alright. All right gangsters. I'll be right back.

You know to say something before we get started something that John was talking about I'd like to elaborate on it from earlier. You know. We're coming together we have these different views but we're not coming together.

You know saying well, you know He's just lost he hosts to the doctrines of the devil. You know, we're recognizing that. You know that yeah, we have different theological and that's kind of logical views on some things.

But the most important thing as the body in Christ we come to we come to these talks and we do it as as brothers you know. Because I you know. There's definitely some things that I know that I could be wrong about.

I've had. I'm not against having a paradigm shift. You know, I Want to be I want to I want to interpret my Bible correctly, I want to when I'm in the pulpit preaching I Want to have confidence in what I'm saying.

Sure.

And I feel like I do but I'm not saying that I am. I'm a hundred percent correct on everything when I get in that pulpit what it what it is that I believe I have to feel like that I am. From the best of my ability.

I am interpreting this passage of Scripture Correctly. But I'm not opposed to having a paradigm shift and standing in front of my people and apologizing if it's for truth. Sure, you see and. Well, I think a lot of people don't take that that point of view.

I think that so.

Full disclosure. So years ago I would have ascribed to what 99 .9 Southeastern people in the United States of America adhere to which is pre-millennial dispensation and.

Really.

Basing that on zero independent research basing that and you know, I would have believed those things and didn't believe those things about even being Christian and.

In doing so.

Part of the reason it Changed after after coming to Christ the reason that I adhere to a strict gospel message the way that I do is because For one I was given a false sense of security through the dispensation of pre-millennials view and in many ways was made a twofold son of hell and And that's a hard.

That's a hard thing to say given that my dad preached to me at some points in life right, I also knew the pastors who were over me and There's no way in the world. I think there's men led me astray on purpose.

Right. I mean, I believe that they love me and my family and more of what's best for me. But they intertwined their gospel message so much so into their eschatology view that they really robbed their gospel message of any power.

Because their gospel message was more or less hindered on. You need this needs to happen before the Lord returns and in the back of my mind as a you know Red-blooded American I'm thinking just being honest here with you fellas.

I'm thinking well, then that means I've got so much time I can live however. My buddies are living I can do the things of the world until I start to see some of these things Pan out then I can I can come to the Lord and make all these things right, you know.

And there's I'm afraid there's a lot of folks who follow that exact same Group, and they've been led in that direction because they've been given a false False sense of security the fact of the matter is even if even if every pre millennial dispensation is just right that's out there.

You're not promised tomorrow. Right. So keeping your gospel message completely centered on Jesus being the Savior of the world and your need of him. Apart from wherever you fall in the timeline of history keeping that message center keeps people continually Pointed to the cross where there's far less danger of making a two-fold sign of hail or given somebody a false security and That's one of the reasons why personally I've never preached on On eschatology to the degree that we talked about it.

Not that I haven't studied it because In my mind and in my heart the most important and the most prevalent message needs to continually be the gospel. We need to continually be digging into the gospel in a way that highlights man's sin and highlights man's answer for sin, which is in Christ Jesus and.

And.

If we're faithful in that charge If people die tomorrow And go into glory, then it doesn't really matter what's happened 2 ,000 years ago in terms of Israel's destruction or what happens 2 ,000 years from now.

It's because We've dealt with the issue that is pivotal and it's up front for for everybody. So that's that's been my. My biggest conviction as a man has been To do my to do my best to not tangle My personal beliefs about eschatology too much into my gospel presentation.

Not that I don't think that there is a gospel message in it, but because I honestly had a fear of leading people astray.

You know.

I want to make sure that and if I were to do that that I were to do that Biblically as you were saying for the Jeff that I was to do that in a way that that was Going to be repeatable 50 years from now that would been repeatable 50 years ago.

That would be timeless for whoever I was talking to and I mean because of that I have I have left my preaching largely exposition which inside the Church of God is kind of Less common than other denominations, but it has also been more black and white gospel driven as opposed to stepping out and Teaching on things like eschatology, although I have been asked to do so I haven't ever done so from behind the book.

So let me get this straight. You guys don't believe in soul sleep.

How much medicine did you take.

It.

Seems like it sounds like a similar situation with the hyper grace movement. You can live however you want to. Based on that style of preaching. And just an additional what you said Jeff. When we come together like this and we have a difference in theology.

Whereas in the past, you know, John you touched on how there was. There was a lot of friction and you know, it was still there when we were younger in the Generations, you know in our past. Or our grandparents our great-grandparents.

You know, and I saw that it was friction in between denominations and kind of bled off into me and in it. I saw that happen in my conversations with kids that I went to high school with that went to a different denomination and you know, there would just be that friction and then I Don't know if there was a feeling of I felt like I was better than the other one or they were you know.

Because they believe that way they I just need to write them off. They're wrong have argument with them or whatever.

You know what, you know, I like to study church history and You know when when it came to the great restoration movement back in the 1830s. When everybody was trying to get back to scripture so to speak you had all these Cults starting like a whole bunch of them a whole bunch of them Mormonism Christian science you had all these the stuff and then you had the great revivalist and that there was real moves of God, but You had all these other tent revivals going on and it was like come to our tent revival.

We have the real Christ. No, no, no come to our tent revival we have the the Holy Ghost is really moving over here and you know, it seems like when you look at church history like Every 40 years we go through something like that, you know, and but it always comes down to Humility, you know, it really really comes it comes down to that because God's not stupid.

He's a son. We have a sovereign God and he understands all of this, you know I don't care if you're a KJV or ESB or or you read the Greek and Hebrew, you know. Like God's gonna work all these things out, you know, but I just believe it's gonna be over a long period of time.

Well, and I wanted to finish piggybacking on what you said, you know when we come together with differences like this we don't. We're not condemning one another and say you you know, because you believe this you're lost.

Another thing that we don't do which I'm so thankful for is We. We don't come at it passively and say but yet it's not important.

We just want to love each other. Well, that's why it should be called the pastors panel. I mean.

Your point.