March 11, 2021 Show with Rev. Geoff Thomas on “Gospelizing Children Through Literature”

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

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This is Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 11th day of March 2021 and I am thrilled to have back on the program one of my very favorite guests who has become a frequent guest on this program.

He's calling all the way from London England today Reverend Jeff Thomas who beginning in 1965 served for over 50 years as pastor at Alfred Place Baptist Church of Aberystwyth Wales and he is the author of many books including his latest the legendary

Casey Jones and other American folktales. Today we are going to be addressing gospelizing children through literature and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Reverend Jeff Thomas.

Thank you very much it's my delight and privilege to be here on the program with you again and yes thank you for inviting me still.

And I must admit I was quite surprised not in any kind of a negative way but I was quite surprised to hear about your latest book.

You are not the first person that pops into my head when I think of Casey Jones and other

American folktales since you are a Welshman and also a

Christian theologian and scholar and evangelist so tell us what so intrigued you about the story of Casey Jones and American folktales that led you to write this new book.

Lockdown really I'm not able to get out and I'm here and I can't come to America to preach and I have a lot of local trips and so I'm in the home and I've had ideas about writing you know

I've written about half a dozen books and so oh I've had these ideas buzzing around in my brain and so I did four books.

I did one on Aesop's fables and I tried to make that alive by not moralizing so when

I told the story of the boy who cried wolf when there wasn't a wolf I didn't say sore children never tell lies

I say Jesus never told a lie all his warnings and all his beseechings were absolutely down the line and then

I did one on Hans Christian Andersen and another one on the Brothers Grimm and got some of those stories the king who was so vain that he believed the liars who told him that he was going to put on such beautiful clothes that they were invisible and so on and I got some lessons from that I try to make it

Christ eccentric and then last of all I came to the stories from America you know

I lived three years in Pennsylvania and loved the

United States and so learned a lot and saw things that I hadn't seen before and so treated the same way these stories

Br 'er Fox and Br 'er

Appleseed and the story of Pocahontas and Casey Jones I got 10 stories all of them

I did 10 stories and they're coming out every three months the first one

Casey Jones I hope the American home school market will want to read them because I've got such

Christian teaching behind it all and people have read it and have really wrote wonderful commendations of it like Don Whitney for example

Don Whitney professor of biblical spirituality and associate dean at Southern Baptist seminary

I've never read another like it he's gathered both famous American folk tales and historical vignettes and blended them with gospel truths all delivered in a way only a great

Welsh storyteller and preacher like Jeff can tell them whether you're new to these stories or it's been years since you've read them you'll enjoy encountering them in this classic collection well how kind of Don to write like that so and Johnny Gibson the prof of Old Testament at Westminster seminary well he just loves them so I'm hoping that day one who is publishing and sending them out that they'll get them circulating in the

United States great yes and I happen to know that right here in Pennsylvania one of my advertisers

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service cvbbs .com is an as an official distributor of day one publications books oh that's great so I'll be looking forward to getting those in my own hands to give out to friends who have children and grandchildren and it is amazing it's amazing to me that in this day and age of cancel culture you have actually brought a fresh new look at Br 'er

Rabbit being one of the one of the folk tales of Uncle Remus which is not exactly politically correct in these days yeah yeah there we are it takes sometimes a stranger to see some duty that we take for granted and we get surprised that we hadn't seen what was there already well our theme today is gospelizing children through literature and you know there are disagreements in the body of Christ even amongst reformed believers about the the state of children and whether or not they are to be viewed as a mission field or as Christians just because they were baptized and raised in Christian homes and I thank

God that you and I who are reformed Baptists are upholding the biblical truth that may be in disagreement with a segment of our reformed brethren and we believe that children are indeed a mission field we are not to presume that they are of the elect just because they were born in Christian households and just because they may have been even baptized when in a

Baptist home they wouldn't be baptized typically until they're teenagers or older but but I'm glad to know that you believe that the gospel must be given to children even the children of Christian parents yeah yep well um

I think um Luke 2 51 and 52

I think those are fundamental texts for what the Bible requires of us in uh addressing children we're told about Jesus that he increased in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and man and there's a four -fold approach to the nurture of our children based on that firstly uh he increased in stature he grew physically infancy childhood adolescence manhood and every time children hear grace being said and or say the

Lord's Prayer and give us this day our daily bread then God is concerned about the physical side of our bodies and God expects them to glorify him in their bodies that they present them as living sacrifices to God that they one day their bodies will be temples of the

Holy Ghost that he'll take up his residence in them and so um it's important proper nutrition we would not against that no we we like that and we want to teach our children the right attitude to their bodies they don't want them to be ashamed of their bodies or immodest and prudish or pensive about their bodies or pamper them um or harm their bodies in in any way or idolize them and we are founded by hideous influences to the contrary and the

Bible says glorify God with your bodies serve him cheerfully with your with your bodies learn physical and manual skills use your hands get proficiency in basic abilities um

Saul of Tarsus learned how to make tents it was very useful to him when he'd go into a city and there was no one there that he could work for and um so that's the first thing about our bodies uh it's important enough for the

Holy Spirit of Luke to tell us here that the Son of God increased in stature in coordination and balance and manual skills he was a good carpenter and then secondly he increased in wisdom there was intellectual development he asked why and his father and mother explained things to him he gathered information he made the connection he grew in his vocabulary he learned about himself and his environment we're told about Timothy that from a child he knew the holy scriptures so we want them to know um that the

Son of God when he came into the world um he he grew in practical sagacity and common sense and he did that um with his uh with the scriptures of what his mother taught him what she had treasured in her heart and shared with him and we want our children to go on that voyage of discovery um and love the creation there are no booby traps there they're going to blow up in their faces no area of knowledge which can be anti -Christ because Christ made all things and so um that's the the second great thing um and we've almost lost that that concern as though memorization was no longer important uh and um our ways of storing knowledge are very sophisticated these days but our parents carried about with them in their minds tremendous masses of information so it isn't certainly about intelligence um or it's all wisdom divine knowledge applied and Jesus all the time applying from the

Bible um knowledge and then thirdly increased in social skills and that again is what we want to teach our children he increased in favor with men in other words he got on with people he was interested in people he was well disposed to them um he was a good communicator today's tired cliche he set before them quite deliberately um his ability to understand them and be patient with them and um we tend to depreciate that skill and of course some religious people

Chris are conspicuously lacking in graciousness the people in Nazareth spoke well of him as a boy and we want our neighbors if they don't go to church at all they they say oh we're glad of Jeff as a neighbor we're glad of Chris as a neighbor he got on he he grew in favor uh women at the well said to Mary are you've got a lovely boy there haven't you oh

I wish my boy was half as kind and thoughtful as your boy was and of course all that it didn't stop them chanting crucify crucify because he made the gospel clear what they were and what they needed in order to to know

Christ and so um there was that dimension to him remember how

Peter says uh if you're persecuted make sure it's not because you were insulting and um discourteous because you were selfish and and crude and unthinking make sure you were persecuted because of righteousness because of the

Christ you loved and lastly then um Jesus increased in favor with God and that is so wonderful isn't it uh you remember

Hannah she went to the temple with a child Samuel and she said

Lord if you give me a son I'll give him back to you and that's where we stand over the wonder of an infant life it's perfection it's complexity it's potential you've given me a child oh now

I want him to grow in favor with you I want him to be your child I want him to serve you and love you and honor you and obey you

I want him to burn for you I want him to be yours I don't mean full -time temple service that he becomes a missionary but I mean

I I want him to love the Lord with all his heart and to love his neighbor as himself and I want to instruct him in the truth of the

Bible and Jesus develop religiously you see his hunger for this when he goes to Jerusalem at 12 and he's there in the temple and he's asking them questions and he's answering them brilliantly and uh

I think then that those are the four standards that we have as Christian parents as Christian pastors as Sunday school teachers as school teachers what we want for our children of course our our religion is different we say at the end of every day sorry father sorry for the sins of today forgive me through Jesus Christ but our

Lord ah he never needed to plead for forgiveness every day he saw more and more what

God wanted for him what God desired for him and he lived it out every day he counted for God so that's the fourfold demand that God makes on every parent to be our children's educators and we don't answer to Caesar we answer to God for training them in these ways so we can't delegate our children's education to any institution and we've got this responsibility and and God helps us and God helped me with three daughters one married to a preacher one married to an elder one married to a deacon and nine grandchildren eight grandsons one of them followed me as the as the pastor of the church and two others are in full -time

Christian work God helped and God blessed in spite of my own inconsistencies the angel in the pulpit could become a devil in the kitchen and God was merciful to me so that they in spite of my inconsistencies grew to love my savior amen well let me give our listeners our email address chrisarmson at gmail .com

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n gmail .com as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the

USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal private and private matter perhaps you're asking because Jeff had over 50 years of experience in the pastoral ministry before he retired from that specific role perhaps you have a pastoral question for him and it involves personal matters we could readily understand that you would want to remain anonymous and we will grant that request but if it's just a general question please give us your first name city and state and country of residence and that's chris arnson at gmail .com

chris arnson at gmail .com we do have uh christopher in western suffolk county long island new york and christopher asks i know that christians disagree over teaching their children myths and legends like the stories of santa claus and the easter bunny and other things that are fictitious although i do recognize that at least santa claus had some basis of a true figure from history saint nicholas but i was wondering what your view is on that should we in essence lie to our children even though they're cute adorable stories that get them excited every year during a particular month and they have things to look forward to and they seem to love and get so enthusiastic over these stories is it right because we are in reality lying well i do think it's wrong to emphasize the santa claus story and make it so sacred and beyond question and uh terrify children with this thought that this old man whether be it's coming down the chimney uh the next day and uh he's going to reward you if you're good and i think a bit of fun uh about him and a twinkle in your eye when you tell these stories and and children will will catch on that this is a different kind of legend um but that um there's a lot of fun in it and then i like presents at christmas and i think uh children love that and um they they come to terms with it so um and and all i think there are differences at christmas aren't there between um the decorations the feasting the family get together um the christmas tree um i don't suppose in long island there are many worshippers of norwegian tree gods i don't suppose that um people are going to take offense and we're going to fall away from the christian faith because they see you've got a christmas tree in in your window and i think that the break between those things uh and any form of religion has long died and they know that it's the midwinter festive season and uh i think you can trust children uh not to not to be offended but you know hey steady on in speaking solemnly and holily about uh the reindeer pulling through the skies um yeah you tell it in a fun way laugh about it and then they'll know that it's not like the resurrection from the tomb and jesus walking on water and the great signs there that he did that showed that he was god's son amen well thank you christopher and we are going to our first station break and once again if you'd like to join us with a question of your own our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the usa don't go away we'll be right back with more of jeff thomas on gospelizing children through literature right after these messages from our sponsors boys are back in town boys are back in town boys are back in town i'm james white of alphanomega ministries my friend chris arnson host of iron sharpens iron radio and i are headed down to atlanta georgia once again for the g3 conference this year's g3 will be held thursday september 30th through saturday october 2nd on the theme christ is supreme over all i'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of god through preaching teaching and singing including john mccarthur phil johnson conrad and bayway daryl bernard harrison and virgil walker for details visit g3 conference .com

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.com that's gcbcnj .squarespace .com

or call them at 908 -996 -7654 that's 908 -996 -7654 tell pastor dunn that you heard about grace covenant baptist church on iron sharpens iron radio so getting a driver's license running a cash register flipping burgers passing sixth grade do you know what they all have in common they all require training assessments and certifications but do you know what requires no training at all becoming a parent my name is am brewster i'm the president of truth love parent and host of its award -winning podcast i've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s and what i've discovered is that the majority of christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes that's why truth love parent exists we serve god by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents god called and created them to be we produce free parenting resources trained church leaders and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness please visit us at truthloveparent .com

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that's historicalbiblesociety .org thanks for helping to keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air welcome back if you just tuned us in our guest today is jeff thomas he is well known in the reformed community as being a prolific writer and conference speaker for such ministries as banner of truth and today we are addressing the very important theme of gospelizing children through literature our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com and please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the usa please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and uh jeff thomas uh do you think that it is very wise of us as christians uh to even before having children know in advance that we have to be very cautious and careful about not only having a view of our own children as idols exalting their place in this world to the point where even though we would never dare say this or perhaps even consciously think it but to the place of god himself or even above god himself uh or at the same time uh sentimentalizing children and because of course when they're not misbehaving and they're not throwing tantrums they're not being disobedient people typically view their children especially when they're very very very very young as lovable and adorable and they cannot dare even think of these children being lost and in need of a savior aren't both of those things very important when we look at children especially those that happen to be our own they certainly are they certainly are and and you know you're going to be disappointed if if you've elevated your children in that way you know you hear a mother saying i don't understand it she says i've i prayed for him and i've i've uh i've brought the gospel to him and now uh um he doesn't believe i can't understand why god doesn't doesn't save him uh and she's elevated him so much and the voice of grace never speaks like that voice of grace will say ah i should have been much more patient and and and loving and consistent with credible godliness in my life but in spite of of all my failures god has saved some of my children they they are true believers in in jesus isn't god's grace wonderful and that comes from having a right view of the heart of man that is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked and their child's need to personally acknowledge his sin and his need of a savior and uh patience and love but not to elevate uh and make a a god of your children i didn't live for my children i live for the lord amen amen uh let's see we have uh i was just looking at a question and it disappeared from my very eyes oh um this is a question it's not even a question it's just a a comment of encouragement i know that before the the program began i believe you were telling me that you have one of your adult children living in germany is that right no my wife's sister oh in germany that's it okay well i just i have an email from a listener in germany uh i want to give my greetings to robert i don't know what city in germany he lives in but he says good evening from germany sir i would like to write you this message just to express my appreciation about your ministry through your iron sharpens iron radio show from germany i listen to it right i listen to it regularly and benefit a lot from it and i gain much insights on various topics and things happening in northern america well so thank you all child of martin luther aren't you yeah well done i'm so glad uh that you you've found a place where your hunger for truth and for understanding and wisdom uh finds a place which touches your understanding your mind and your affections and oh may you go on in the christian life and find some gospel church nearby amen and uh we have uh let's see another one that i was looking at just moments ago and it vanished from my eyes oh bobby in hartsdale new york uh bobby says i have become increasingly opposed to something known as children's church and youth groups i think that they unnecessarily separate children from the same worship services and studies that the adults in the congregation are being witness to now i am not opposed to all children's instruction i'm just talking about the way that some churches function where there seems to be a permanent separation of young from old thinking that the gospel always needs to be dumbed down and i understand once again that there is a place for toddlers and others but they carry this on too far in the ages of these children through teen years and so on i was wondering what your guests thoughts were that is certainly an important question and in i inherited a a church where there was always a children's story um after the second hymn and uh so i would find it difficult to justify one section the old people or the young women or whatever um having a slot like that but i i would only plead how jesus carrying his cross confronts the mourning wailing women and though the crowds are all around him he stops and now he addresses just them and he says you know i don't want your pity you know don't you mourn for me think about yourselves and what's going to happen in the in your generation and your children and uh when you will envy those that had no children judgments coming you get ready to mourn for you so he addressed his words to them and so um i used that moment there in that time i used it for example to go through the the confession the catechism the westminster catechism and the children got up and they said their catechism verses and i explained it to them or did a series on the attributes of god or whatever and uh so um the church i attend now and i i attend a wonderful church i'm a member there he's the best minister in the world and uh he speaks well to the children he's gone through christ as prophet priest and king and the attributes of god are it it's it fits in well and then the children go out the little ones go out for the sermon itself but they're there for that part and we're saying you were important to us well you know um i i i understand that and um but i i don't want children that are 14 years of age to be going out and and not being present for the sermon um once you're um uh you're in high school my you should and younger than that you should be there listening to the sermon the word of god god loves his little ones to be there with them so you obviously you believe there is a place for separating very young children but not that they would be uh that that would carry on even through teen years of course and so on no you see children are instruction to the people sitting around them and they should be uh taken out uh and uh little ones who are restless you either keep them in and they crayon or whatever if they're two or three years of age uh you have to show some um sympathy and uh understanding to to these kids and their parents we have joseph in south central pennsylvania who says i'm looking forward to getting a hold of your own books but i was wondering what other books specifically for children you might be able to recommend um yes yes uh there are many many now aren't there the uh if you look at um the books sellers that are advertised uh and support uh iron sharpens iron um they will recommend uh books to you uh and i would think that would be the best thing for you to do email them and and ask you your questions to them um now it's just um my great -grandchildren i have five of them four grandsons and a little girl has just arrived the first girl um that's a great -grandchild and i'm learning from their parents uh what books they are finding helpful and um so i hope you'll find my my books will be helpful and some are designed for the ones on aesop's fables are particularly designed for a mother or father to read to their children and to learn the lessons from them before they go to bed at night now are all of those books for children published by day one yes the day one do the four yes well if you go to cvbbs .com

cv for cumberland valley bbs for bible book service .com cvbbs .com

you can ask for the day one publications written by our guest jeff thomas and jeff happens to spell his name g e o f f and um they will definitely have those books when they are actually in print now that the latest book on casey jones is that actually in print i know it's this month it's yes that's it yes that's uh selling well and uh that's the only one it'll be every three months until the end of the year and then they'll come out as a box set of four by the end of the year great and uh also uh cvbbs .com

uh happens to have a toll free number you have to call this number between 10 30 a .m

and 4 p .m eastern time it's 800 0231 800 656 0231 and always tell them that you heard about them from chris arenson and i interpret his iron radio i would also check out one of our primary sponsors solid ground christian books solid -ground -books .com

solid -ground -books .com and do a search of their entire website for children's literature uh and they i know that they also have books about parenting and that side of the issue as well uh well we actually have to get to our midway break right now if you would like to join us on the air please use this time to write down a question for jeff thomas and send it to chris arnson at gmail .com

chris arnson at gmail .com and as i keep repeating please always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the usa and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter also please write down as much of the information as possible provided by as many of our advertisers as possible so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them because we rely upon our advertisers to exist and they will be further uh ensured to remain our advertisers if they enjoy the responses they are receiving so at the very least reach out to our advertisers if you can't patronize them by purchasing a product or using a service reach out to them by thanking them for sponsoring the show if indeed you love the show and you don't want it to disappear but don't go away god willing we are going to be right back after these messages with more uh of jeff thomas and gospelizing your children through literature don't go away hello dear ones my name is justin peters and my friend chris arnson host of iron sharpens iron radio and i are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the united states we'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the g3 conference in atlanta georgia thursday september 30th through saturday october the second on the theme christ is supreme over all i'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers including john macarthur phil johnson vody balkan joel beakey and james white for details visit g3 conference dot com that's g the number three conference dot com please join chris arnson and me september 30th through october the second at g3 2021 this is justin peters reminding you that christ is supreme over all james white of alpha omega ministries here if you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough you know i have a great love for getting bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity and besides that they feel so good i'm so delighted i discovered post tenebrous lux bible rebinding no radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently but i'll give it a shot jeffrey rice of post tenebrous lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan all his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin tanned in italy used for my 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a french tannery used to rebind a reformation study bible i used as a gift the silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art for more details on post tenebrous lux bible rebinding go to ptl bible rebinding .com

that's ptl bible rebinding .com so we are excited to announce another new member of the iron sharpens iron radio advertising family bhanu gadi owner of three new york pharmacies lee's drugs of floral park long beach chemists and prescription center of long island in hempstead bhanu gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic please contact dr gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media to find the pharmacy nearest you call 516 -354 -2000 that's 516 -354 -2000 or order online at lee's drugs rx .com

that's l -e -e -s drugs rx .com don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program greetings in the matchless name of our lord jesus christ my name is bhanu gadi i'm a pharmacist in new york which is the epicenter of the latest a crisis the world is going through in psalm 139 verse 14 the psalmist offers praise to the lord like this i praise you because i am fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well he saw god's goodness and mercy kindness and the beauty in what god has designed and he has erupted into praise in any crisis or problem brothers and sisters our only fallback position is to trust god's design and once we do there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him when the whole world is searching for a solution god in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness which can be very serious such is the beauty of his design knowing that design how can we not erupt in praise to our great god like the psalmist did may god bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design thank you getting a driver's license running a cash register flipping burgers passing sixth grade do you know what they all have in common they all require training assessments and certifications but do you know what requires no training at all becoming a parent my name is am brewster i'm the president of truth love parent and host of its award -winning podcast i've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s and what i've discovered is that the majority of christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes that's why truth love parent exists we serve god by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents god called and created them to be we produce free parenting resources trained church leaders and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness please visit us at truthloveparent .com

was your business shut down during the covid 19 pandemic depriving you of earning any money causing you to default on your rent as you try to survive without income maybe you've had to close your doors for good the good news you thought was that you purchased business interruption insurance as a part of your business liability policy with a major insurance company who told you they are a good neighbor or that you would be in good hands you filed a claim only to be told that it was denied due to the pandemic exclusion clause the pandemic exclusion since 2006 most insurance companies added this clause to enable them to deny your income loss claims in the event of a worldwide pandemic do not give up no matter what state you live in call buttafuoco and associates now at 1 -800 -669 -4878 buttafuoco and associates is a part of a large multi -district litigation and they are working with lead council to bring what they believe will be a successful lawsuit for these claims it is the best way for you to proceed there's absolutely no risk to you you do not have to pay them out of pocket and there is no fee unless you recover on your claim you need to call 1 -800 -669 -4878 right now trust the law firm where the attorneys at one of the largest business firms on long island new york are sending their own clients for representation during this lawsuit buttafuoco and associates here to help business owners rebuild their lives in the wake of the pandemic call 1 -800 -669 -4878 linbrook baptist church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st century our church is far more than a sunday worship service it's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant it's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement it's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing we're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and together hi i'm pastor bob waldeman and i invite you to come and join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that a church can be call linbrook baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org

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forward slash podcast when iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the new american standard bible were among my very first sponsors it gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the nasb i'm dr tony costa professor of apologetics and islam at the toronto baptist seminary and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor jeff downs of knox reform presbyterian church in mechanicsville virginia and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor mark rimaldi of grace reform baptist church of long island in merrick new york and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor scott basolo of the master's church of bucks county pennsylvania and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor kevin venue of the bible church for washington new york and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor andrew smith of christ reformed community church in saint augustine florida and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor clint lighter of highway m chapel sedalia missouri and the nasb is my bible of choice here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air pastors are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart consider restocking your pews with the nasb and tell the publishers you heard about them from chris arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio go to nasbible .com

that's nasbible .com to place your order charles haddon's virgin once said give yourself unto reading the man who never reads will never be read he who never quotes will never be quoted he will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own you need to read solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart the mission of solid ground christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting books for all ages we invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

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always mention chris arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio before i return to my guest jeff thomas we just have a couple of more announcements to make if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves please go to iron sharpens iron radio .com

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click support then click click to donate now also uh if you are not a member of a local bible believing church no matter where on the planet earth you live i may be able to help you find a church i have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically sound faithful churches and i may be able to help you find a church possibly even right around the corner from where you live no matter where on the planet earth you do live i have helped people in our audience find churches that on occasion are minutes away from their houses they didn't even know these churches existed or they didn't know that the churches that they pass by every day were theologically sound so if you are in that category you need a church that is biblically faithful or you have a loved one who needs a church that's biblically faithful or you're going on vacation somewhere and want to visit a church that's biblically faithful send me an email to chris arnzen at gmail .com

and put i need a church in the subject line that's chris arnzen at gmail .com but i need a church in the subject line and we are now back with our guest jeff thomas we are discussing with him gospelizing children through literature and if you have a question please send it to chris arnzen at gmail .com

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com and give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the usa and uh we have an anonymous listener who says that she has very close friends or it's a he i'm not sure uh very close friends who have adopted children from ukraine and the children have mental problems that are very serious they have been very violent towards the other children and never stop in their threats and in their disobedience i was wondering what a fine christian minister like your guest would have to say about the special needs of children like this oh how terribly sad oh dear what uh what love and and prayer should be directed towards that father and mother what understanding um what help a rotor of um of women in the church particularly men are out at work or but when they've retired they they can go along and maybe they can do something they can take the children for a walk they can give the parents a break um women can cook a meal and bring it across once a week um i know we had two children with learning difficulties in in our church in aberystwyth and we then uh through the generosity of christians through the country we opened a home and now there are 16 much older people that live there and have a christian environment so um not all churches are able to do that it must be a a givenness of the lord and there must be some unanimity um amongst the the people of god that this is the lord's will and whenever whatever god asks for he would also provide we can say ask what you will as long as you provide what you're asking for you'll help us you bless us so um i think it's a challenge adopting children um it's a challenge and but if they are handicapped or have learning difficulties on this violence or i am terribly sorry for for them and admire the greatness of their faith that that want to help children like that and i would ask our listeners to pray for the parents of these adopted children and that they have the patience and the perseverance and endurance uh to be the best christian parents they can be and also for the children themselves that god even in miraculous ways might lead these children out of these states of mind we have uh susan margaret in dauphin county pennsylvania and susan margaret asks there are disagreements even amongst reformed christians over whether or not we should ever use illustrations in christian books that include pictures of jesus yeah and i was wondering what your opinion was on this some some include them with the caveat that the pictures are only stick figures and very nondescript others would rule out any kind of a drawing or picture that would be intended to look like jesus christ what are your thoughts on this yes i that has been a long debate now iconography the um making of icons statues and then pictures of jesus i don't think evangelical publishers tend to be wise if we don't put a human figure are we suggesting that jesus didn't have a body and so they may have a picture of someone's back or they do drawings that are not significant in showing us any particular features i guess like a silhouette or something like a silhouette or something like that a silhouette yes that that kind of thing and um i i appreciate that i appreciate the concern and they want to honor the lord they don't want to uh break the uh the commandment the second commandment about not making any image and uh so um yeah uh but if you have a handsome uh main of blonde hair down to his shoulders no caucasian you know oh my i i don't like those pictures i uh and uh want to apologize to my uh afro -american brothers and say i'm sorry that that that's hopeless he lived in the middle east he wasn't a scandinavian blonde was he and uh so uh i i deplore that miss caricature of uh of jesus and the actually the the controversy extends beyond literature movies uh christian parents frequently watch movies about jesus with their children they're starving for movies that are appropriate for young eyes and ears and when something that is about jesus comes out they're more than quick to jump at that and there's there are even amongst very conservative reform baptists there are disagreements on that uh yeah there really are yeah have you come to a specific conclusion on that about movies and films i tend to be quite negative that's not my uh is that just because they've been is that just because they've been poorly done or because of the very issue of jesus being depicted in a film both i i don't think they've grasped the heart of it and the the the teaching of the gospel of man's sin and deliverance through god sending his son that doesn't come through very clearly and uh then uh the uh the resurrection isn't uh uh as transparently magnificently joyful an event as it should be the great climax so uh yeah we have john and bangor mean who says the bible is filled with stories about brutal violence and murder and rape and sexual perversion and sexual sin how do we explain these stories from the scripture some of which are very important to little children and do we not begin to tell those stories to children until they are in their years yeah you've got to know your children and um how psychologically emotionally wise they are and how sensitive they are i mean this is the real world isn't it and uh there are bullies and there are horrible accidents and it's a grieving groaning world in in which we live and the bible reflects that and the only one who who wasn't like that at all was our our savior jesus christ and uh i i think you've got to be careful the bible is never masochistic for example the bible never describes crucifixion and what it means and i i've groaned at the length that some preachers will go to in in describing what crucifixion was i know that it's not in the bible but for one reason it was very common on the crossroads as you'd walk they'd they'd come across they'd stumble across a body hanging there there was a an ugliness a cruelty about roman law and uh there was no need then in the bible for crucifixion to be explained and even when it talks about then the adultery of david or the behavior of joseph's wife there's a a restraint in what it does there and we should be as restrained as scripture in talking about these things to to children oh well here's two adults to anyone right uh here is a question that is very much an excellent segue to that uh we have let's see i was just looking at a cj from lindenhurst long island new york wants to know how young should children be before you start to teach them about hell yeah yeah well if they're going to a gospel church they're going to hear about it from the pulpit and they'll hear about it in the proportion that it is found in scripture and they'll hear about it on the lips of the lord jesus himself but they'll hear about it in a different way from the proclamation that we preachers make of the good news of jesus christ we proclaim heaven we proclaim the resurrection of the crucified savior we proclaim the blessings of justification the imputed righteousness of the lord jesus christ but those are the the heart and theme of our declaration in in our uh in our affirmation of the reality of these things but we also mentioned then um perversion and cruelty and sexual sin and the hatred that god has of of torture and the judgment that does await us uh it's appointed unto men after death and the great separation and the picture language of jesus and uh very uh tenderly we are to speak of the things and god will honor our desire then to speak of them so that these children don't go there and their parents and these cynics who come we speak not to crush them but to deliver them from the judgment is there are two roads and one road leads to life but one road leads to destruction and many are on that road and we long to deliver them and tell them of the exit from the one who says i'm the door the door of deliverance from destruction to eternal life uh we have a listener who's asking a question that was already asked but i actually am now more prepared to answer it uh we have bb in cumberland county pennsylvania who wants suggestions for books uh books for children and i'm assuming she's obviously speaking of christian books uh banner of truth and you remember you could get all banner of truth books from cvbbs .com

cumberland valley bible book service uh and you could go to the banner of truth website and then order them at cvbbs .com

once you've made your list if they don't have uh the copies in stock or the books in stock they will get them very quickly banner of truth is minutes away from cvbbs .com

but there are two female authors that have written a number of children's books published by banner of truth allison brown and rebecca vanduward uh there is a book called bible numbers by allison brown a bible alphabet by allison brown bible names by allison brown and there is a book about i know this book uh it would be near and dear to the heart of my guest today it's about martin lloyd jones it's called the doctor who became a preacher yes by rebecca vanduward and uh the woman who loved to give books by rebecca vanduward and the man who preached outside by rebecca vanduward and the woman who helped the reformer by also by rebecca vanduward and there are many others that are available bible animals and wait till you see the butterfly and heroes of the faith so cvbbs .com

has these books they also have books believe it or not that many of you might not be aware of uh the one of the great heroes of the christian faith modern day heroes the late r .c.

sprawl who just went home to heaven not long ago uh he has written and has books available that are beautifully illustrated for children so when you contact cvbbs .com

you can ask them specifically about r .c. sprawl's books for children yep good and then this god made them great isn't it that's an early banner book for young people um stories of great leaders and missionaries and reformers yeah so fine books uh i'm so glad you mentioned those i'd forgotten completely about them chris that's that was a word in season amen well i'm glad that i during a station break started to look into what banner of truth had to offer because i distinctly remembered seeing them at cvbbs yeah and there are singler ferguson's books on some of the church fathers uh three or four of them like ignatian son of us that we don't know a lot about and he's written very helpful illustrated books that the banners brought out amen let me ask you a question backtracking a little bit we were speaking about uh an appropriate age to start telling children about hell yeah uh what about warning your children about they themselves going to hell if they if they reject jesus if they uh were to unexpectedly die at a young age without christ i mean we don't even like to bring up thoughts of death with children and we try to speak as sweetly as possible when a loved one in our family dies and we have to in some way uh talk about how why this person in the family is no longer with us and all these things very delicate but if hell is real and being a child doesn't guarantee entrance into heaven at least those of us who don't don't typically believe that well reform baptists anyway i don't don't believe that um tell us about that very delicate and sensitive issue i think uh that's a very a very pertinent question and uh uh well my children received the teaching i gave when well when they asked me questions about that and and if people died and we didn't know whether they were christians or not you know there's a great story from the island of lewis um up there where the free grace is so loved by the people there was a man and he was um going with in his cart with a horse pulling him um along the edge of his farm which was on a cliff top and suddenly the cliff gave way and he fell through the air with a horse and cart and uh as he was falling he cried to god for mercy that god would save him and he landed on a big pile of sand and seaweed it cushioned his fall and his life was spared and he lived for many many years and adored the gospel by a change of life but the point that he made was this if he had landed on rocks and he had been killed his brains had been smashed to pieces they wouldn't have known no one would have known that while he was in flight between the saddle and the ground i mercy sought and mercy found he was crying to god and receiving the assurance that god heard him and saved him they wouldn't have known and his his point was this great point we can't answer your question about where's this person where's this beloved grandfather grandmother that you prayed about so long we don't know you spoke to them on their beds as they were dying and and and urged them to believe and told them that the love of god was so great and that the dying thief at the end he he came to know the lord and lord remembered him today you'll be with me in paradise we don't know when we we we give people then as much comfort as we can from the little we know of the human heart and we often say they're going to be great surprises when we get to heaven thank god that there will be so i just as you don't believe in lying to children about santa and the easter bunny not that you not that there's never a place for fairy tales in the lives of children but just so they're not told these stories as if they are just as truthful as the stories about jesus and the other uh characters in the scriptures um yeah i'm assuming that you would also uh be against parents immediately and very often it may just do to um a rightful desire not to traumatize their children yeah but but at the same time it's it's still wrong if it's a lie to immediately tell a child when a loved one in the family dies oh they're in heaven when to your knowledge the person never made a profession of faith in place there might have been a wicked person of course uh and maybe the child doesn't know about the wicked side of this person that doesn't mean that the person did not come to christ without our knowledge somewhere on their deathbed or something but to guarantee or to just comfort the child oh he's in heaven or she's in heaven that would be wrong if we're not certain where the person's state was before god right oh chris you've been to funerals of people who never went to church and the the preachers have lied to a congregation that all is well with this man and have given an assurance that they had no right to give because our lord talks about the bifurcation of the destinies of the whole human race we do not believe in universalism that is a lie from the pit and it denigrates the great hellish suffering of jesus christ the son of god on on the cross and uh ah yes and children will take it on board but that the horrible things that they hear about the cruelty the abuse the killings the murders um god knows be sure your sin will find you out well we have to go to our final break right now and if anybody would like to join us with your own questions please try to do that as soon as possible because we are running out of time our email address again is chrisarmson at gmail .com

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the usa only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter don't go away we'll be right back with jeff thomas and gospelizing children through literature right after these messages i'm dr tony costa professor of apologetics and islam at toronto baptist seminary i'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where i've been invited to speak and have grown to love hope reform baptist church in quorum long island new pastored by rich janson and chris for mcdowell it's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of god like the dear saints at hope reform baptist church in quorum who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of christ in his holy word and to enthusiastically proclaim christ jesus the king and his doctrines of sovereign grace in suffolk county long island and beyond i hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as i have for more information on hope reform baptist church go to hope reformed li .net

that's hope reformed li .net or call 631 -696 -5711 that's 631 -696 -5711 tell the folks at hope reform baptist church of quorum long island new york that you heard about them from tony costa on iron sharpens iron i'm james white of alpha and omega ministries my friend chris arnson host of iron sharpens iron radio and i are headed down to atlanta georgia once again for the g3 conference this year's g3 will be held thursday september 30th through saturday october 2nd on the theme christ is supreme overall i'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of god through preaching teaching and singing including john macarthur phil johnson conrad and bayway daryl bernard harrison and virgil walker for details visit g3 conference .com

that's g3 conference .com chris arnson and i hope to see you september 30th through october 2nd at g3 21 this is james white reminding you that christ is supreme overall iron sharpens iron radio depends upon the financial support of fine christian organizations to remain on the air like the historical bible society the historical bible society maintains a collection of christian books manuscripts and bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years the mission of hbs is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture dissemination of scripture to provide tools equipping believers in christian apologetics with evidence for the bible's reliability and to introduce reformation literature and christian art to a broader audience since 2004 hbs has toured schools and churches throughout the northeast united states reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the bible hbs's founder daniel p buttafuoco attorney at law is committed to sharing this collection along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church come journey through their website historicalbiblesociety .org

the collection includes complete 11th century bible an actual page of the gutenberg bible from 1455 the first book ever printed the geneva bible the 1611 king james bible and much much more visit historicalbiblesociety .org

today thank you daniel p buttafuoco attorney at law for your faithful support of iron sharpens iron radio hi this is john sampson pastor of king's church in peoria arizona taking a moment of your day to talk about chris arnson and the iron sharpens iron podcast i consider chris a true friend and a man of high integrity he's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the christian faith i've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray i believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide this is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet god has raised chris up for just such a time and knowing this it's up to us as members of the body of christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances i'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting iron sharpens iron financially would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry i know it would be a huge encouragement to chris if you would all the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

where you can click support that's ironsharpensironradio .com ironsharpensironradio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the new american standard bible were among my very first sponsors it gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the ironsharpensironradio audience have been sticking with or switching to the nasb i'm pastor nate pickowitz of harvest bible church in gilmont and ironworks new hampshire and the nasb is my bible of choice i am pastor rich jensen of hope reform baptist church in quorum new york and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor sule prince of oakwood wesleyan church in toronto ontario canada and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor john sampson of king's church in peoria arizona and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor chuck volo of new life community church in kingsville maryland and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor steve herford of east fort baptist church in jacksonville florida and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor roy owens jr of the church and friendship in hockley texas and the nasb is my bible of choice here's a great way for your church to help keep ironsharpensironradio on the air pastors are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart consider restocking your pews with the nasb and tell the publishers you heard about them from chris arnson on ironsharpensironradio go to nasbible .com

that's nasbible .com to place your order hello my name is anthony eugenio and i'm one of the pastors at hope reform baptist church in quorum new york and also the host of the reformrookie .com

website i want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the ironsharpensironradio show like i do you can now find it on the apple's itune app by typing ironsharpensironradio in the search bar you no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work just subscribe on the itunes app and listen to the ironsharpensironradio show at any time day or night please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that chris arnson has on the show truth is so hard to come by these days so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news subscribe to the ironsharpensironradio podcast right now and while you're at it you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com

podcast and visit our website and the youtube page we are dedicated to teaching christian theology from a reformed baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers from keach's catechism and the doctrines of grace to the olivet discourse and the book of leviticus the reform rookie podcast and youtube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth and finally if you're looking to worship in a reformed church that holds to the 1689 london baptist confession of faith please join us at hope reform baptist church in quorum new york again i'm pastor anthony invinio and thanks for listening we are excited to announce another new member of the ironsharpensironradio advertising family bhanu gadi owner of three new york pharmacies lee's drugs of floral park long beach chemists and prescription center of long island in hempstead bhanu gadi earned a doctorate in degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic please contact dr gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media to find the pharmacy nearest you call 516 -354 -2000 that's 516 -354 -2000 or order online at lee's drugs rx .com

that's l -e -e -s drugs rx .com don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program this is pastor bill saso grace church at franklin here in the beautiful state of tennessee our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support ironsharpensironradio financially grace church at franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole council of god as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our lord jesus christ and of course the end of which we strive is the glory of god if you live near franklin tennessee and franklin is just south of nashville maybe 10 minutes or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby we hope you will join us some lord's day in worshiping our god and savior please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about grace church at franklin our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org

that's gracechurchatfranklin .org this is pastor bill sasa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign lord god savior and king jesus christ today and always are you tired of looking for the silver bullet when it comes to health and wellness are you frustrated with the medical status quo which masks symptoms and doesn't treat the root problem of sickness more importantly are you looking for one of the most unique books ever written which gives you safe low cost and proven options to regain your health the way god intended then look no further than my new book health for all of life a medical manifesto of hope and healing for the nations hi i'm jason garwood and i'm a husband father pastor and writer whose passion for helping people led me to write this book if 2020 has proven anything it's that big pharma big tech and big government knows nothing about how to treat people naturally without poisoning them with synthetic drugs and experimental vaccines but what if god has given us a better way what if we can take the christian worldview found in the bible and apply it to health and wellness my book health for all of life does just that you can find this exciting new book on amazon pick up a copy for yourself and for your friends and family give the gift of health and don't be a dead end to truth welcome back if you just tuned us in uh we have had on the program for nearly two hours now jeff thomas and he is a prolific writer and conference speaker most uh commonly known as a speaker at banner of truth conferences and others and uh we have been discussing gospelizing children through literature if you have a question send it immediately because we're almost out of time chris arnzen at gmail .com