F4F | Body, Soul and Spirit?

Fighting for the Faith

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Welcome to another installment of Fighting for the Faith. My name is Chris Roseborough, I am your servant in Jesus Christ, and this is the channel that compares what people are saying in the name of God to the

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Word of God. All right, so you may have heard of dichotomy versus trichotomy.

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Is man made up of a body and soul, or is it body, soul, and spirit? And if you listen to the

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Word of Faith Prosperity Heresy, oh, they've got an elaborate theology developed regarding trichotomy, body, soul, and spirit, and I've invited

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Stephen Kosar onto the program. Stephen Kosar, good to see you, senor. Good to be here,

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Chris. So you and I have been talking about this for a couple weeks now, and the best way

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I can put it is that when you just do a careful study of dichotomy versus trichotomy, a lot of people are careful.

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And they're careful because they don't want to go beyond or push farther than what the

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Scripture says. And so they are very careful to stay within the limits, and I would note that in kind of studying this out among Lutheran theologians is that there is some kind of a hint that there may be a little bit of a distinction between spirit and soul.

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The issue is that these are phrases that are used interchangeably in Scripture, and so whatever that distinction is, it's one that's not explained in Scripture, but oh my goodness, you come to the

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Word of Faith people, and they have an extremely well -developed trichotomous view, and they've got us chopped up into so many pieces.

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My question is, do they understand that at the end of the day, that even though you have a body and a soul, there's only one of you, not two of you?

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That's kind of my question, you know. Your thoughts, as we start off on this crazy road that you've set us down.

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I'm blaming you for this, Kozar. I actually want to give credit, I was just thinking about this the other day, it was

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Marcia Montenegro who told me about this book, I don't know, three, four years ago?

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Yeah, yeah, the Bowman book, yep. And it's because of this book that Robert Bowman Jr. is in the

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American Gospel movie, because I really, I told Brandon, you gotta hear his viewpoint, you've got to read his book, you've got to see how he explains the

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Word of Faith movement, because he really goes to the origins, and he gets to the very heart of the

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Word of Faith movement. And one of the things that Bowman says that just, I couldn't let go of, was if you take away the

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Word of Faith view of the trichotomy view of man, that we are distinctly made into three distinct parts, if you take that away from them, their entire theological framework just dissolves into thin air.

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Yeah, no, I think that's right. And so it's been one of those things that it's a little bit difficult to explain, it's not something you can just, you know, in a couple of catchphrases explain to people without it having to basically sound like you're just spinning a bunch of words together.

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So I'm so glad to do this with you, because you're the guy, you're gonna do a little bit of the heavy lifting in this program to explain exactly where the biblical texts say what they say, and where they don't say what everyone thinks they say.

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And I have to say, I am really frustrated with how much the Internet, even though I love the fact that you're on the

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Internet, I'm on the Internet, we're using YouTube, it's a good thing, but there are people with much larger channels than us who don't know what they're talking about.

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They literally don't know what they're talking about, and they come across as experts, and we're gonna show that.

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Yeah. So I'm gonna change views here, and we're gonna whirl up our desktop, and you've sent a video for us to kind of work our way through, and let's take a look at how this is set up.

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We're gonna be borrowing portions of the American Gospel documentary series, talking about dichotomy versus trichotomy, and how the

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Word of Faith prosperity preachers, their whole theology absolutely depends on trichotomy.

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And so we'll let Robert Bowman explain this from the American Gospel series.

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One of the foundational assumptions, or doctrinal premises, if you will, of the

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Word of Faith movement is this idea of trichotomy, that human beings are fundamentally threefold in nature, that they have a soul and a body, but that essentially, human beings are spirits.

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You are a spirit, you have a soul, and you live in, you live in a physical body.

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Now I got to stop right there. That is Gnosticism. That is flat -out

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Gnosticism. So the best way I can put it is, is what Scripture reveals is that we do have a body, we do have a spirit or soul, and those spirit and souls are used interchangeably.

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And that the two come together in an organic unity, and you are that.

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Okay, death is the ripping apart of that. Let's do a little biblical work here so that we can kind of see how this is all playing out.

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In fact, I've got to go back into Genesis. What did I do with my Genesis text? Oh, that's okay. Yeah, there it is,

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Genesis chapter 2. All right, so here's what it says in Genesis 2. When no bush of the field was yet in the land, no small plant of the field had yet sprung up, for Yahweh Elohim had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground.

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And a mist was going up from the land and watering the whole face of the ground. Then Yahweh Elohim formed the man of the dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living, and here's, the

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ESV translates it as creature, but the Hebrew is nefesh, a living soul, or a living spirit, kind of the idea here.

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And so you'll note that our body is, you know, the body of Adam is formed and it's completely lifeless, and God breathes into him the breath of life and he becomes a living soul.

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And the idea then is that there's an organic unity, there is not, so there is not three of you, and here's the thing.

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It is Gnosticism that teaches that the physical, tangible things of the world, these are all an accident.

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And what's really real is the spiritual, and the physical is of almost no consequence.

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And so when you hear Kenneth Copeland, in fact

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I'm gonna just back this up a smudge, when he said what he said, I want you to listen carefully because he's...how

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do you know when Ken Copeland's lying because his lips are moving? Anyway, but let's see what he says again.

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These are spirits. You are a spirit, you have a soul, and you live in, you live in a physical body.

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This is nonsense, okay? God made us a living soul, alright?

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And this is bonkers, what he's just saying. This chops you up, and somehow, you're a spirit basically in a flesh suit.

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That's not correct. And so, you know, when we take a look at other passages, we'll do a little bit of biblical work here.

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So we've got the living soul here, and then the fesh. In Luke chapter 1, in that famous portion of Scripture where we get the

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Magnificat from, we'll note that, in fact let me make the Greek just a little bit smaller here.

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Mary says, my soul, my psuche, my soul magnifies the Lord, and my pneuma, spirit rejoices in God my

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Savior. You're gonna note, she uses the term spirit and soul interchangeably, and that's a common thing in Scripture.

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There is no hard -and -fast rule that psuche is some kind of earthy, broken psyche of you.

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In fact, this wouldn't make any sense. My broken psyche magnifies the Lord, and my spirit man rejoices in God my

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Savior. It just doesn't work that way, okay? So that's another text. And then you'll note what

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Christ says here in the Gospel of Matthew. In verse 28 in particular, do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul.

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And in fact, I need to make this a little smaller so I can actually see the text in front of me.

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Cannot kill the psuche. Rather fear him who can destroy both body and soul, soul and body, in hell.

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All right? So you'll note the two go together, all right? So note it doesn't say, rather fear the one who can destroy your soul in hell.

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You'll note that hell, at the end of the age, when Christ returns, everybody is resurrected from the dead, all right?

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The righteous, the unrighteous, everybody is resurrected, and there are, for real, human beings who are thrown into the lake of fire, and all of them's going in, and there's no separation at that point.

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They will exist in hell, being punished for eternity, you know, with the soul and body reunited together.

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And so the idea here is that the two, a body and soul, comprise an organic whole.

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And then we have other passages along these lines. So let's see here.

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For we are of good courage, let's see, I think first, let's see here. Yeah, this is an interesting one.

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So we are of good courage, Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5, verse 6. We know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the

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Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, but we would rather be away from the body and at home with the

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Lord. Now this is talking about the intermediate state for Christians. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please

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Him, for we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each may receive what is his due, what has been done in the body, whether good or evil.

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And so you're going to note in the intermediate state, we have the tearing apart of body and spirit, the tearing apart of body and soul, so that our soul is with Christ, with Him in heaven during the intermediate state.

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Then after the resurrection, soul and body are reunited, or spirit and body are reunited, and we will be with the

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Lord forever in a new earth, resurrected, okay? So we're not going to be up, you know, as spirit beings playing harps on cloud nine, which really sounds really boring to me.

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I was just looking at verse 8. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the

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Lord. If the trichotomy view is correct, we should hear something about Paul saying that I'm already one with the

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Spirit of God in my spirit. Yes. Because that's what they teach. They teach that you have this very distinct, there's like a wall between our soul and our spirit, and if we can just push our soul on the other side of the wall clearly enough, we'll be in bliss right now on earth, because our spirit is perfect and sinless, and is at one with Christ.

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And it also is where, not for everybody, but for a lot of them, they say, well the reason why your spirit isn't in touch with God and doing all that it's supposed to do, and why your soul is having more of an effect on you is because you're not speaking in tongues.

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Yeah, no, that's correct. You've got to build up your spirit by speaking in tongues, and it doesn't make any sense because it's spiritual, and you're now communicating directly with God, and it doesn't make any sense because that's the spirit language, so that's all tied together.

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Yep, no, what you brought out is right. Let me show you another text along these lines. Ecclesiastes chapter 12, talking about what happens at death, it says, you know, the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit, and here it's a

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Hebrew word, ruach, the spirit returns to God who gave it. All right? So here you got a clear passage that talks about at death, our physical body returns to the earth, and the spirit returns to God.

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And so that's what death is, it's a tearing apart of the two. First Corinthians 7 says,

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I want you to be free from anxieties, the unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the

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Lord, the married man is anxious about worldly things and how to please his wife, that last part we all say amen, and his interests are divided.

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And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord and how to be holy in body and what?

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Spirit. Spirit. Okay, yeah, so you'll note here. Now this is not to say that there isn't some...

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there aren't passages that kind of lend themselves to the trichotomous view, but I'm going to point this out.

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There are only two for real, and when you consider what they're saying, you can't arrive at the other conclusions that they're arriving at.

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So what we're... I think one of the big takeaways I want people to have here is that the

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Bible is super measured in what it says in this regard, and it's all the additional extrapolations based on trichotomy that these people are teaching that are nowhere taught in Scripture.

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And already we've heard Kenneth Copeland say, you are a spirit, you have a body, uh -uh.

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Okay, Roseboro's created by God, body and soul, and I'm an organic unit that goes together, that's what a human being is.

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And death is this unnatural ripping apart of the two things that God put together. Again, go back to Genesis.

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But let me show you those two texts. First Thessalonians 5, now may the

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God of peace himself sanctify you completely. So I'm going to note here, that's kind of the point of what

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Paul's saying here in 1 Thessalonians 5. May God, you know, sanctify you through and through, every bit of you, from the tip of your head to the tippy toes of your toes, you know, all of you and everything in between.

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That's kind of the point. And may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our

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Lord Jesus Christ. And so here you have, you know, the spirit and soul being used in a way where it seems like there's a distinction, but the whole point is that this is a text that's basically saying all of you.

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Let me give you a cross -reference here, okay? So in Matthew 22, listen to what this text says in context, verse 34, but when the

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Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together, one of them a lawyer asked him a question to test him, teacher what is the great commandment in the

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Torah? And he said, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind.

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And I'm gonna make a note here, is that in some cases, the word tzukeh, you could translate it mind, okay?

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And so, oh, but that's the whole point is this, when you start talking like this, just like I said, may

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God bless you from the tip of your nose to the tip of your toes, and you know, and I'll talk about your spleen and all that, everything, the whole point is that I'm talking about all of you, okay?

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This is not trying to make a theological distinction between all of these parts, it's talking about in totality.

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And so that's what Paul is talking about here. Now, may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our

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Lord Jesus Christ. It is not, we're gonna note here, it's not saying what Andrew Womack says, it's not saying what

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Kenneth Copeland says, it's not saying... and there are some out there who sit there and go, well, just as God is the

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Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, we're trichotomous. That's not what that's saying either. That's going way beyond this text, okay?

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Way beyond this text. The whole point is the totality. Now here's the other one, and this is the only other one.

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For the word of God is living and active sharper than any double -edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit.

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So here we got Pseuke and Pneuma, you know, being, you know, like the division between the joints and morrow, discerning the thoughts and the intentions of the heart.

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And so here's the thing here, if you can consider the next part, joints and morrow, all right, that, you know, are you gonna make a solid theological distinction between joints and morrow at this point, then thoughts and intentions of the heart.

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The whole point here is that this is talking about kind of the way the Word of God works in a way that convicts us, reveals our true intentions, and things of this nature, you know, and it's the thing that's living and active, and to push too hard on this division of soul and spirit without any other text that really tees out that distinction is an unwise thing to do.

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This is why then Lutheran dogmaticians would note that when you're very careful along these lines, there's a way in which looking at this distinction, it's a distinction that, you know, it's all the same thing, but there may be a way of talking about what's in charge or what's not in charge, but that's a longer discussion, and I would actually recommend at that point, if somebody wants to do kind of a more in -depth kind of walk -along thing, then look at the video that Pastor Brian Wolfmuller put together on this topic.

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But the thing is, is that here's the thing. We've now walked through the texts, all right?

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That's it. That's it, all right? Okay, and you're gonna note here, all the remaining theology bits that we're gonna hear from these false teachers, it ain't in any of these texts.

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Oh, well, there's the division of body, soul, and spirit, and so you got...so let me give you an example here, all right?

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So one of my least favorite people on planet Earth, Andrew Wommack, okay? He has an entire animated series on this topic, and I want you to listen to this theology and just ask yourself this question.

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Is any of this theology taught in these biblical texts that we just look at regarding trichotomy and dichotomy?

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Let's listen in for a little bit. ...that is righteous and holy. You are as pure and holy in your spirit as Jesus is because it's...

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Now you'll note here, the guy in green, that's your body. The gray guy, that's your personality, that's your soul.

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And then you got your spirit man, okay? He's totally perfect, righteous, and all this kind of stuff, and I'm starting to talk like Andrew Wommack.

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Anyway, let's keep going here. ...righteousness that has been given unto you. In 1

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Corinthians chapter 1, verse 30, it says that Jesus is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption.

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Jesus has become our righteousness. Yeah, He has, but yeah, we're clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

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That has nothing to do with trichotomy. ...as you get your soul in agreement with what is already transpired in your spirit.

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Now this is the part, no text says any of this. So here we've got the gray soul guy, and this is where you're all screwed up.

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This is where depression comes from, this is where evil lusts and intentions, stuff like that.

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And the reason why you're not experiencing health and prosperity in your life is because your soul isn't in agreement with your spirit.

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This is what they say. Okay, so you got to get your soul to look into the mirror of your spirit so that all the perfect, glorious things that you are in your spirit man can then transform the thinking of your soul man, which is really messed up, and then you'll start to see the benefits in your life.

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Listen to what he says. Then you see the physical benefit. Your spirit has to flow through your soul to get into your body, into the physical world.

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What text says that? And I tell you, Chris, this is how you can establish literally a type of cult.

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Everything you say, and every book you sell, every DVD you sell, every conference you go to, people who have been taught this never get the results that they want, because it doesn't work, because it's pretend.

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It's like a make -believe world, and it lays the foundation for them to always feel like, oh,

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I'm almost there. I haven't quite gotten my spirit man to overcome my soul and my body, but if I go to the next conference or I buy his next book or whatever, you're always in bondage to this idea and to the teachers who teach it.

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Yeah, so you go to Andrew Womack. How come my beard is still gray, I'm still ugly,

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I'm getting older every day, and I'm overweight? Well, your spirit man hasn't talked to your soul man and had the impact of going from the spirit into the physical, into your body, and so none of this stuff is taught in Scripture.

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None of this. This is just a flat -out myth. And it works. You start using language.

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Andrew Womack is the worst, because he uses language that does make reference to the imputed righteousness of Christ.

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He mentions it quite a bit. Yeah, but he misappropriates it. He misappropriates it right next to a comment about the imputed righteousness of Christ.

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He then fades that into something about this body, soul, and spirit stuff, and makes it sound like you just have to access the spirit man that's been given to you freely by the

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Atonement of Christ. And you're like, okay, so now I have to access this thing? I have to somehow tap into it?

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He actually uses this language. You have to tap into your spirit man. And one of the things that Bowman writes about that really made sense to me is that this creates a very bizarre sort of anti -intellectualism that has to be taught by hours and hours of teaching.

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So it's anti -intellectual in the sense that they're telling you to shut off your mind, because they teach that your mind is part of your soul.

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The bad part of you is your mind. Yeah, and you got to turn your thoughts off, and just let the spirit flow.

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This is why speaking in tongues is so important, because that's the achieving of the complete quieting of your mind, and just letting your spirit do its thing.

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And if this was true, they would stop teaching about it. They would say, okay, I'm done. I told you what you need to do.

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Now go babble in tongues for as long as it takes until you overcome your soul, and you have complete sanctification in this world.

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But they don't. They go on and on, and they talk and talk and talk, and it's all a bunch of nothing, and it leaves you in bondage.

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Yep. Don't get me started. Let me play a little bit more from Andrew. I'm gonna back up just a smidge, because this is just nonsense.

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Listen. With what is already transpired in your spirit, then you see the physical benefit.

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Your spirit has to flow through your soul to get into your body, into the physical world.

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The soul has a valve on it, and basically that is the... What? Your inscription doesn't say the soul has a valve on it.

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Well, let's see. The problem right here is that your negative power coupling coming through your soul valve, you know, you just got your currents crossed there right there, and so when you're hitting the valve, it's closing up rather than opening up, and so yeah.

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See, Chris, I think you got the wrong coupler on there. You got a 316ths when you should have a 3 8ths.

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See, that's the problem right there. Yeah, well, I forgot to get my hex scatsofrats out and, you know, turn it counterclockwise three turns, you know.

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This is nuts! Well, you didn't use your torque wrench on there. If you don't have a torque wrench, you're not going to get the right pressure, and especially if you're using a 316ths instead of the 3 8ths.

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Right. What PSI is my spirit working through this valve? That's what I want to know. That's where the torque wrench comes in, and that's a whole other key thing.

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I'm gonna have to spend a couple more hours on that next time I come into town. Well, we're gonna need to examine this using my lawn chairs and a, well, can of bud, you know, but anyway, let's keep going.

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Of your mind, your mental, emotional part, the soulish part of you. The same power that raised

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Jesus Christ from the dead already indwells every born -again believer, but if your mind is like a valve and if it's closed to that, if it doesn't embrace that truth and renew its mind and get to where what you see in the

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Word of God in the spiritual mirror, if that doesn't become more real to you than what you see in your physical mirror, then it's possible for this resurrection life that's in your spirit to be completely shut off, just like you would shut the valve on a faucet, and you say, but I feel sick.

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My body hurts. The doctor says I'm dying. Here's my... Yeah, you're sick and your body hurts and you're dying because you have cancer.

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You're gonna be dead in a week. You know, well, that's just your soul lying to you.

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Your spirit wants to tell you something different, man. I told you you got the wrong coupler on your valve.

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This is flat -out mythology. Medical record, and if those things dominate you, that soul can shut off that power so that not one drop of God's life -giving power...

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So there's your soul. It's got the valve closed. It's got its eyes closed. It refuses to listen to the spirit.

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The spirit wants to save you, man, but no, your soul valve is all clogged up.

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It touches your physical body, and you can die sick having the resurrection life of...

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Christians have died sick for 2 ,000 years. This is nuts.

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God on the inside of you. All right, you get the idea. So there's this trichotomy. Bowman's right.

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If trichotomy falls, their whole theological system falls. And the reality is

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Scripture uses soul and spirit interchangeably, and Christ talks about the fact, don't fear the one who can destroy your body, but fear the one who can destroy both your body and your soul in hell.

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All right, let's come back then to this video that you gave us, and let's keep going here, because this is loads of fun.

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As spirits, they are in the same class or category of being as God. God's reason for creating

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Adam was his desire to reproduce himself.

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Ah, so trichotomy is the foundation of the little God's doctrine. Uh -huh, got it, okay.

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And like God as a spirit, we can call into existence what we say.

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We serve a God who calls things that do not exist as if they already existed.

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We just... Yeah, that's God. Make positive confessions, and then those positive confessions will then turn into physical reality.

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So the positive confessions are your spirit man trying to train your soul to let the spirit power of the resurrection flow through the valve to come to your body thingy.

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And the way this works is for the guy on stage with a microphone, he just tells stories about his own life.

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Whether they're true or not, we'll never know, because we'll never be close with this guy. Right. No one will ever see

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Joyce Meyer up close and personal and go to her house and hang out with her. So she can talk about all the victories she might be having.

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Andrew Womack, Kenneth Copeland, they can all tell stories from a stage, and it's a narrative that they tell about all the success that they're experiencing.

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And then you're thinking to yourself, well, I want to do all the stuff that they're doing. I want to have the success that they're having.

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But it's all pretend. At best, it's a narrative that we'll never be able to test. This is

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Amway. This is Amway. I'm actually working on a video right now, and it's taking me forever because it's all about how these pastors all go to each other's churches, and they all promote each other, and they all complement each other.

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And it's a closed set of ideas. As long as you stay inside of that closed set, it all seems to back each other up.

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So all these people talking about the body, soul, and spirit, they don't do what we just did. It didn't take very long to look up all the verses in the

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Bible and talk about how we don't have three parts, how we actually have two parts. They just don't do it.

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They don't look at the whole of Scripture. It's not that hard. No, and the thing is is that, and there's not two of me, and who

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I am consists of both the body and the soul, the body and the spirit. All right, let's keep going.

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So that's how powerful your words are. Your words have created power. Just as God made the world by speaking words of faith according to these teachers, we can essentially bring into reality or bring into expression what we are hoping for, what we want, because we're the same kind of being as God.

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This is just, this is Gnosticism, man. It sure is. A major component of Gnosticism was this very distinct separation, and your body was everything that was wrong with you, and your soul was perfect.

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You just got to get in touch with it more. The trichotomy of you adds this idea of a soul.

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I think it's a little different. Yeah, no, it is a little bit different, but at its core, this rhymes with Gnosticism.

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It kind of reeks of it. Yeah, Gnosticism is everywhere. It's sneaking around the outskirts of Christianity from the very beginning, and elements of Gnosticism have always been threatening true

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Christianity. Yeah, it's been the arch enemy of Christianity for 19 centuries.

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That could be another show for us to go into detail about, because I think there are components of Gnosticism that we just are so familiar with in the evangelical world that we just assume them to be true, like this body, soul, and spirit thing.

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Everybody just keeps repeating it over and over, and everyone just assumes it must be true because famous people have said it.

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Yeah, that's not the way you test, by the way. All right, let's keep going. This is an interesting video you've put together, sir.

31:33

So the kingdom represents a triune healing for the whole person.

31:41

What? Spirit, soul, and body. Yeah, that's from your video,

31:49

I think. But anyway, real quickly, I just shared that the Lord showed me that when

31:55

I got born again, it was my spirit that was changed, not my body. Notice he didn't say a biblical text.

32:01

The Lord showed me... Well, and you know what, Chris? He teaches essentially the same thing as Kenneth Hagin.

32:07

Kenneth Hagin just came a couple decades earlier, but he never gives credit to anybody. He makes it really clear every time he talks about this, that this came directly from God.

32:15

I learned this directly from God, not even from the Bible per se. He learned it, and then he saw it in Scripture.

32:22

Yeah, and I just finished up this series on hearing the voice of God, and so he's basically saying, he's claiming direct revelation here.

32:30

The Lord showed me. That ain't the voice of God, because God's now gone beyond the Scriptures to basically affirm to him via direct revelation a view that's not taught in Scripture.

32:41

That doesn't sound like the voice of God to me. So let me back this up just a smudge and listen again.

32:47

...that the Lord showed me that when I got born again, it was my spirit that was changed, not my body and not my soul.

32:53

And this was a major breakthrough, because Scriptures that say, you know, that you... Not my body and not my soul?

33:01

Hello? I'm gonna be resurrected? I'm pretty sure

33:06

Christ saved my body too, okay? And he saves my body through death and resurrection, alright?

33:14

That which is sown, you know, mortal, you know, is going to die, and it is going to be raised eternal, right?

33:23

I'm pretty sure Christ paid the penalty for all of me, and that in the resurrection,

33:30

I'm going to live forever, body and soul reunited. So this is even terrible soteriology here.

33:37

I want to hear that again. This is blasphemous. Alright, good stuff, Cozart. ...when

33:43

I got born again, it was my spirit that was changed, not my body and not my soul. And this was a major breakthrough, because Scriptures that say, you know, that you are the righteousness of God, I'd go look in the mirror, and I'd think that's not righteous, and I'd look at my mind and my thoughts, and that wasn't totally righteous, and because of it,

34:00

I was just stuck. It was like, God, I can't understand the Word, and when He showed me that it's not my body, and it's not my soul that got changed, it was my spirit, and He showed me who

34:09

I am in Christ, and what I had in Christ, it totally revolutionized my life, because God is a spirit, and God sees me in the

34:15

Spirit, and He relates to me in the Spirit, and even when I sin, and even when I fall short...

34:21

Listen to what that does with the body, man. Holy... This is rank

34:27

Gnosticism. Wow. ...when I mess up, God does not change in His attitude towards me, because He's a spirit, and He's dealing with me in the

34:35

Spirit, and my spirit is sealed, and sanctified, and perfected forever. We talked about all of these things last year.

34:42

Which biblical text? Oh, that, he doesn't have any, he just says the Lord showed him that. Right. Yeah, got it.

34:47

Okay. No, the Bible is very... All right, this is Daniel Martinez, I think? Is that... I forget this guy's name.

34:53

Hang on a second, I'm gonna back this up just... This guy has a huge channel. I was really discouraged when I found this guy.

34:59

So Daniel Maritz, Daniel Maritz, all right. The Bible is very clear. There's a huge difference between your soul and your spirit.

35:07

We just went through all the texts. The Bible's clear there's a big difference? Where are you finding these texts that make these differences?

35:15

And I want to point out, once again, I know I might be pounding this issue over and over again, but Christians, just like non -Christians, they believe the famous people with the best production skills.

35:28

This guy's a pretty boy. He looks nice. He sounds nice. Come on, he's just 30 years younger than both of us.

35:36

We were both that great -looking when we were there. Come on. He sounds confident. He sounds like he's, you know, authoritative, and everybody is so used to that.

35:46

And it happens in the way that we've been taught by watching this famous people on television who tell us what we need to believe about everything.

35:53

And it shouldn't happen to Christians, though. Christians should be the ones who are skeptical of everybody who appears to be speaking authoritatively.

36:00

We need to go to Scripture first and foremost and test everybody. Well, I mean, isn't the attitude,

36:06

Oprah said it, I believe that that settles it. I mean, if Oprah has

36:11

Rob Bell on, well, then Rob Bell's good, man, you know. Yeah, that's the way most people view that whole issue.

36:17

Yep, let's keep going here. You need to know what that is. Hebrews 4 verse 12 says, for the Word of God is living and powerful and sharp.

36:24

We just covered this text, and my question is, where is it gonna go right after this?

36:31

Now, listen to this. Piercing even to the division of soul and spirit. Yeah, when you read it in context, it's not making this huge difference that you're claiming, though.

36:42

So the Word of God cuts right between our soul and our spirit. In 1 Thessalonians, we read,

36:47

Now may the God of peace sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our

36:58

Lord Jesus Christ. Right on. We covered how this is basically talking about all of y 'all. So from these verses, it is very clear that you have a body, a soul, and a spirit.

37:07

No, it's not. But you need to know that your spirit only becomes alive the moment when you are spiritually reborn.

37:16

Text, please. I'll explain a little bit more on this a little bit later on, but it's interesting that God is three in one, the

37:24

Trinity, right? And so we are made in His image, and we are also three in one.

37:30

That's not a biblical argument. The spirit is called pneuma. The Bible also explains this as the inner man.

37:37

The soul, psyche, is the outer man. Yeah, and it's weird. Scripture uses soul and spirit interchangeably.

37:46

The body, the soma, is the outermost man. So let's have a closer look at these three. First, the body.

37:51

It's very clear, right? You see it when you look in the mirror. It's how you interact with the world through your five physical senses.

37:57

Smell, taste, touch, hear, and see. And then your body also wants physical desires like food, shelter, sex, clothing, and so forth.

38:06

Now let's move on to the soul, the psyche. Now this is the part where people communicate with you. This is basically you.

38:11

It consists of yourself, meaning your identity, your personality, your character, and then your emotions. So I'm going to point this out.

38:19

If he says that the soul is me, he disagrees with Copeland because Copeland says the spirit is me, and Womack says the spirit is me.

38:27

They're all just making it up, Chris. It doesn't matter. As long as you have good graphics and you have good background music and you have a nice soft camera with this shallow depth of field, and you speak with confidence, you can say anything, especially on YouTube.

38:39

Does this guy belong to a church? Has this guy gone to seminary? Does this guy know Greek and Hebrew? I'm sure he doesn't.

38:44

I don't know. Your feelings and passions, and then your intellect, which is your mind and your thoughts, and then your will, which is your own will.

38:52

Where is he getting all of these things from the biblical text? He's not. He probably copied and pasted all of this from somebody's book somewhere, and he's just repackaging it.

39:02

Got it. Yeah, I did see Grudem's systematic theology behind it. Which is hilarious. Because Grudem doesn't believe this.

39:08

Right. And then your conscience, and then very importantly, not a lot of people know this, but it is also a dwelling place for evil, meaning your sinful nature and evil spirits.

39:18

What? The scripture says to do not gratify the desires of your flesh, and it's like, oh, this is such a mess.

39:30

Okay. If somebody hits you or pokes you in your physical body, you feel pain, right? And when somebody uses abusive words, you also feel pain in your soul.

39:38

Now, from the moment you're born, you only ever operated through these two, through your body and your soul.

39:45

That's all you ever knew. But you're missing one part, your spirit, because you were born spiritually dead.

39:50

Now your spirit... Now, granted, we are dead, indeed. Totally different from your soul.

39:56

The spirit is the part where we get spiritual discernment, peace, and revelation. It is the part where we I get peace and revelation from my spirit?

40:06

In your spirit, yeah. The Spirit of God talks to your spirit, and you have to access that part of you where everything's perfect.

40:11

Again, what texts say this? Okay, I get revelation from the Bible, okay?

40:18

Wow, this is... Well, and you know, even what he already said is so contradictory, because if we get revelation only in our spirit, but he said that your soul is where we have our mind and our thoughts and our intellect, how can we get the thoughts to enter into our spirit?

40:37

If we read words from the text of Scripture, which is God's Word, how can that then enter our spirit without using our intellect?

40:44

Because he just told us our soul is the bad part of us, just like everybody else. Yeah, so here's the thing. We've gone through the text, and he even referenced the two, but it's all this other theology that he's building off of it that none of these texts say.

40:57

If it's not in the Bible, it's not theology, it ain't doctrine, okay? So where are you getting this stuff?

41:04

You're right, he probably just copied and pasted it from somewhere. Okay, with God Himself. So our spirit has a deeper discernment between right and wrong.

41:12

1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 says, but the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God.

41:17

Talking about the Holy Spirit. For they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

41:25

Yeah, spiritually is not the same as saying pneuma. This is nuts. Yeah, and I notice that whenever these guys talk about any other verses, they find verses that talk about the

41:37

Spirit, and they assume that that means the third part of us. When those verses don't say that, they just talk about the

41:43

Spirit. Yeah, so they've got a highly developed theology that's actually not taught in the Bible, that has crossed the line into flat -out mythology...

41:52

And it's superimposed on all the other texts. Exactly, exactly. And then this is used as the explanation for everything.

41:59

Okay. And then in our spirit, we also have peace. Romans 8 verse 6 says, the mind governed by the

42:05

Spirit is life and peace. And our spirit... Wait a second, I gotta look that up.

42:11

Romans 8, 6, right? Okay, hang on a second. Hopefully I can get there. Romans 8, and let me just go there.

42:18

I'm curious. For the mind, okay, set on the flesh is death, but the mind, thronema, on the

42:30

Spirit is life and peace. I just wanted to see if there was a... if that was one of the cases where mind was synonymous with psuche, but it's not.

42:37

It's a different word altogether. I thought I'd look, just double -check, because I thought that would be funny if it worked out that way.

42:43

But anyway, his theology isn't... Again, this is going way, way, way outside beyond what these texts say.

42:51

...receives revelation, which is insight and understanding from the Spirit of God. Ephesians 1 verse 17 says, that the

42:58

God of our Lord, Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation.

43:05

Give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation. The Holy Spirit. In the knowledge of Him.

43:12

Dichotomy. Okay, so here's a Grudem, right? Okay. All right, so how much you want to bet he's not trichotomous?

43:20

Well, this is my favorite part. When I found these two videos and stuck them together, the guy we just saw...

43:27

Had Grudem's theology. He had Grudem's theology very, very strategically placed on the table behind him to make himself look like he actually read the book, but Wayne Grudem himself doesn't teach the trichotomy.

43:41

So go ahead and play it. I think I have issues with Grudem, but I think I've read his systematic theology, and I would say he strives to be faithful in working with the biblical texts.

43:53

They say that the Spirit is not a separate part of man, but is another term for soul, and that man is made up of just two parts, body and soul or spirit, and either word could be used.

44:05

Dichotomy is the view that I hold, incidentally. Yeah, and he's properly pointing out that Suke and Numa are interchangeable, and they are.

44:15

He's got such an exciting personality, doesn't he? He's a little dry, just, you know.

44:23

I love the fact that the other guy has got all this, you know, kind of emotion, and he sounds so confident, and then

44:32

Wayne Grudem just comes, he kind of enters into the equation and just says, no, you're completely wrong, because I disagree with you, and the

44:40

Scripture clearly teaches otherwise. Right, let's keep going here. Body, only one element.

44:45

We just have a body, and we don't have a soul used. Dichotomy is the view that I hold, incidentally.

44:52

The body is one part of us, and soul or spirit are different words for the immaterial part of us.

44:58

Right. News unit says, can you explain the difference between spirit, soul, and body? Well, it's pretty simple. God is three parts.

45:05

Yeah, see, he launches off in a non -biblical argument. He is God the Father, God the Son, God the

45:10

Holy Ghost, and we're— This is true. God exists. Three eternal persons. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. There's not three guys, there's one guy.

45:16

In his image, so therefore we're three parts, too. We are— No, see, that's using logic, okay?

45:21

Yep. And not biblical text. That's not how we do doctrine. You don't go, well, this is that, and this is the other thing, because you end up with the same thing, you end up using that same kind of logic ending up in the

45:34

Word of Faith camp. You know, well, God spoke things into existence, we're made in the image of God, therefore we're little gods, therefore we can speak things into existence.

45:42

Yeah, and he's— It's not how you do theology. Spencer Smith is an independent fundamentalist

45:48

Baptist guy, and he says a lot of good things against the Word of Faith movement. However, I've watched a few of his videos, and if anybody's listening,

45:57

I don't mean to be offensive, but I got to tell you, he doesn't know what he's talking about much of the time. When he talks about neo -evangelicals, that's what he would classify anybody who's not an independent fundamentalist

46:08

Baptist. He has mentioned that Brandon Kimber and me and you and everyone else who's in the American Gospel, he classifies us as neo -evangelicals.

46:16

I don't think he knows what that term means, because it actually refers to— And I'm sure he would rebuke me for using the

46:22

ESV rather than King James, and using the Greek and the Hebrew, because he's a King James only guy, so. And he sounds confident, he sounds pleasant, he sounds like he really cares about what he's speaking, and I don't doubt that, but he's just not very clear and educated on the history of the church.

46:38

He's made some statements about how they're the only ones, he and his group are the only people in the entire world who are following Scripture as the people did in the early church.

46:49

Yeah, that's a typical sectarian claim of the IFP, so. It's just so dumb.

46:57

We are a soul, we are a spirit. Now, I'm not a body that contains a soul,

47:03

I'm actually a soul that inhabits a body. Here we go again.

47:10

Okay, you are a living soul. Full stop. Okay, so when you start tearing us apart like this into our component parts, you know, so what are you?

47:23

Are you a heart with a spleen? Or, you know, it's like, you know, no, no, no, no.

47:29

We are a one unit, and we're a composite between the body and soul, for sure, but that there's only one of you, there ain't two of you, and to talk about your flesh as if it's just some kind of meaningless meat suit is, you know,

47:48

Christ died in the flesh, and so that we can be raised again bodily from the grave, that our salvation is completed and consummated in the resurrection.

47:59

So, you know, we're not gonna make distinctions like this in the New Earth, thank God. This is just my body, this is my bone and my flesh, my hair, my head, everything that you see here, that's just, that's the body that I inhabit.

48:14

No, you are a living soul. This is not me, that's my soul. Now, when a person is

48:21

Adam and Eve in the garden, they had body, soul, and spirit, and when they partook of the tree of life, which text says that about them?

48:28

Yeah, we just looked at the text, and it doesn't say that at all. No, if the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the

48:35

Lord said, thou shalt surely die. Well, they took that tree, and then they didn't die, did they?

48:42

Or did they? Well, the answer is, they did die. They didn't die physically, they didn't die a soul death, but they died spiritually that day, that part of...

48:51

Now, I would agree that they died spiritually, this is true, because physically they're still moving, but the thing he threw in there, they didn't die a soul death?

49:01

Hello? It's like, where are you getting this phrase? Okay, keep going.

49:07

...being that communed with God died that day. The Bible says in the book of John, God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth, and so in John chapter 3,

49:19

Jesus said, you must be born again. Now, when I was born again, I was 18 years old, I wasn't given a new body,

49:24

I really wasn't even given a new soul, but I was born in my spirit. I was born spiritually, and given a new nature spiritually, and that part of me that was dead.

49:36

And this is not heretical, the way he's talking about being raised spiritually. I gotta say, this is perfectly within the pale of orthodoxy.

49:44

There's nothing wrong with this, it's the extra extrapolations that he's making beyond the text that is the problem.

49:52

It is now alive, my spirituality, and so that is body, soul, and spirit, and so you have to understand that if you're gonna understand people, and that's what

50:02

I talk about when I talk about marriage, you got body, soul, spirit, but you got people out there that have no spirit, and so really they're broken, and one -third of their being is broken, because they don't have a walk with God, they're not right with God, and so you have two people out there that, you know, they're not, they're broken, and they're trying to work as a marriage, and they're not complete people.

50:23

You notice what's really missing here is any clear exegesis of biblical texts. You can't do theology this way, you cannot do doctrine this way, you need texts in front of you, and in fact, when people would ask

50:38

Jesus questions, he would say, well, you know what the texts say, how do you read the text?

50:44

Let's talk about the text! Yeah, right. But when two people are right with God, they're born again, they get married, it can work.

50:53

It really can work, and that's I think that's part of the reason why there's so many divorces today, so. All right, so, okay, so.

51:05

Oh no, here's Womack. Okay, yeah, we're gonna... ...new series, and I'm teaching on my favorite thing to teach on what

51:14

I call spirit, soul, and body. You know, this is the truth that just transformed my life, and it has become like the foundation of everything

51:24

I teach. This is, I heard one person describe this like a key that you stick in your brain, and it just unlocks the

51:33

Word of God. It unlocks. That's another way of saying we superimpose this doctrine.

51:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So your problem, Kozar, is you didn't stick the key in your head, you know.

51:47

Now we got a key, what about the valve and the coupler? I still don't have the key. Yeah, and the sprats of frats, man.

51:53

You know, left -handed at that, let's keep going here. All right, so yeah, you got the idea.

51:59

But so, but the reality is that, yeah, to push too hard on this, it's...

52:07

we've covered the text, we've looked at what they said, we're gonna stay in the context here, and we're gonna note that the biblical case for trichotomy is extremely flimsy.

52:21

And the biblical texts clearly are... the clear passages are in favor of this body -soul or body -spirit distinction, because soul and spirit are used interchangeably in Scripture, and Christ talks again about, you know, don't fear the one who can destroy your body, but the one who destroys body and soul in hell.

52:40

Yeah, so yeah, this is... yeah. But all that other stuff, all the magical hoop -de -doo that goes...

52:47

that they've built on this, none of that's in the Scriptures. These are all extrapolations, and the foundation is their false trichotomous view.

52:57

If that falls, the whole system is gonna come crumbling down. I really hope this is helpful for people too, because I don't want to just complain about how some people are wrong.

53:07

I know that there are people watching this who have heard this stuff, and they're trying to somehow make that help their lives.

53:14

They're trying to incorporate this into their spiritual lives, and it's just throw it all away, and your life will be better.

53:20

That's the problem. If this is at the foundation, get rid of it, and now you will be free,

53:26

I think, to understand God's Word better, and you'll be free also to not be afraid of your mind and your intellect.

53:36

We as Lutheran theologians specifically, but we're not the only ones, but we believe it's really important to use our mind.

53:42

We believe that we can take our mind as far as it goes, as far as Scripture will allow us to take our minds, and after that there is some mystery to our

53:51

Christian faith. We don't know everything, God is bigger than us, God is way above us, He's given us enough information in His Word, and He's given us a brain to understand

54:02

His Word, that we can be at peace because of what He's given us, and we don't have to go beyond that. Right, and the thing is, you'll note that what they're ultimately doing is selling something.

54:13

They're trying to sell... see, the reason why you're not getting the results you want in your life, you're not prosperous, you're not wealthy, you're not skinny, you're suffering from cancer, you have some kind of a long -term illness, it's all because you haven't understood the proper distinction of trichotomy, and your spirit man isn't undoing the valve in your soul person, and all this kind of stuff.

54:37

This is just... you buy into this, and you think, ah, this is finally the solution that I need, this is the key that's gonna unlock everything, and now the blessings of God are gonna flow into my life.

54:48

No, they're not, you're still gonna die. Okay, you know, and here's the thing, you said, well Roseboro, that's not very positive, that's a very negative confession here.

54:56

Yeah, listen, we're all dying. Scripture says our lives are like grass, okay, and the strength of the field, the beauty of the grass, it's here today, it's gone tomorrow.

55:06

Christ didn't come to give you your best life now, you're heading to the grave.

55:12

Get over it, okay? Get over it. You're going to die, and that's just how...

55:18

I'm gonna die! It could happen tomorrow, it could happen today, it does... the thing is, is that I'm perfectly fine with this because I know, number one, to be absent from the body, which is a period of time which will be the case if I die before Christ's return, is to be present with Christ.

55:36

Christ will bring me back with Him when He returns in glory to judge the living and the dead, and He's going to reunite my soul with a resurrected body without sin, and I will be me put together properly in the new earth forever and ever, amen.

55:51

There's nothing for me here. This whole world's coming to an end. I'm coming to an end, Kozar, you're coming to an end, too.

56:01

I think that if you're holding on to this idea that Christianity is the tool by which

56:11

God will give you all the things in this world that you desire, which is what people are being taught all day long, you have to let that go.

56:19

You have to be at peace with the fact that you may die tomorrow, you may die today. Not that we want you to die today, not that you should want to die today, but if we have that as our foundation, then we can be at peace with sometimes

56:32

God gives us success, and God gives us good things, and we are blessed by Him, and sometimes He does not, and He is sovereign, and He knows what

56:39

He's doing, and we don't need to worry about it. That's the key. We don't need to worry about these things. This is called godliness with contentment.

56:45

The Bible talks specifically about this. Paul says, I have learned how to, you know, do well in plenty and in want, you know, and to be content with what

56:53

God has given me. As that great theologian from the Disney movie Frozen said, let it go, let it go!

57:01

Anyway, so here's the thing. We're sojourning here, okay?

57:10

I'm just passing through, you're just passing through, and you're gonna note, in passing through, things are tough.

57:16

You have to toil in order to put food on the table. Yeah, God planned it that way as a punishment for our rebellion against Him, okay?

57:23

You want a world where all you got to do is reach up and grab dinner from a tree? That's in the new world, not this one, okay?

57:31

So you know, paradise is coming back, man, and Christ has given it away for free, and that's kind of the whole point.

57:39

And so it's like, how did Peter say, was it Peter or Paul? If we are to hope in Christ for this world, for this life only, we should be pitied, okay?

57:49

So he said, well, you're so heavenly minded, you're no earthly good. Oh, well,

57:54

I guess that's the case, but you obviously don't know me, but the point is that as Christians, we are always looking forward to our hopes.

58:03

So what do you do then if you're suffering in body? You pray, and you ask God to give you the strength to get through, and even if it means that you're going to be in pain for the next 30 years, 30 years is nothing compared with eternity, and God uses our sufferings to draw us closer to Him.

58:22

This is all throughout Scripture. You know, I think of Joseph, this is a poor fellow, you know,

58:27

God gave him two prophetic dreams, and they were prophetic dreams. He tells them to his parents and his family members, and they hate him for it, right?

58:34

And his brothers decide they're gonna murder him, and then one of them says, well, maybe we'll get some money for him. So they betray him for pieces of silver.

58:41

Who does that sound like, right? And so they betray him, and he ends up being sold into slavery in Egypt, and then he's like the first recorded person in history of experiencing workplace sexual harassment.

58:53

Okay, yeah, but yeah, you know, and here's the deal, it was the woman doing it, not the dude, and so his boss's female wife, you know, employer, she was the one having the hots for him.

59:07

She falsely accuses him, he ends up in prison for 13 years, man!

59:12

And, you know, and he didn't have his best life now, all right? And now, granted, God eventually let him out, but the thing is, is that he learned.

59:21

He learned to trust in God, and when he comes out, he's not vengeful, he's not seeking, you know, his brother's heads on a pike.

59:29

In fact, he, you know, they're terrified of him when he reveals himself to him, and he says, don't worry, what you intended for evil,

59:36

God has worked for good. And Scripture says that for us as Christians and Philippians, you know, all things will work together for good for those who love the

59:44

Lord. So he's gonna make all of our paths straight, there's a new world coming, Christ is gonna vindicate us, and I preach about this, you know, often, especially when we just got done with the eschatological text in November, is that, you know, look at me,

59:58

I look worse now than when I got started, you know, it's like, look at how much gray is going on in here, it's like, you know, it's like I look older this year than I did last year.

01:00:07

That's why I don't have a beard, it would be very gray if I did that. Yeah, right, you know, so I'm hiding my glory,

01:00:13

I'm putting my glory out on camera every week, but the point is this, is that there is a day coming when our youth, our strength, our fortunes, everything is gonna be restored.

01:00:26

In fact, let me do this real quick here, hang on a second here, I want to pull up a biblical text, because this will be helpful.

01:00:34

Okay, Isaiah 61, and let me pull up the

01:00:40

Hebrew just to upset the King James Only people. Listen to this text, so this is

01:00:50

Isaiah prophesying about the end of the world, but also there's Christ in here too. The spirit of Yahweh Elohim is upon me because the

01:00:57

Lord has anointed me to bring good news to the poor, he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, to open the opening of the prison of those who are bound, to proclaim the year

01:01:08

Lord's favor, the day of vengeance of our God. And so you'll note, these are wonderful themes, and these are the words that Christ took up when he was in the synagogue in Nazareth, and they decided they were gonna throw him over the cliff because this was fulfilled in their hearing, right?

01:01:23

But note here, the poor here is refining the poor in spirit, those who recognize that they're sinners, the brokenhearted, those who mourn over their sin, liberty to the captives, that's you and I.

01:01:33

We were born in captivity to sin, death, the devil, a world that's corrupt, you get the whole thing.

01:01:38

And to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor is that great picture of the Jubilee, the year when all the debts are canceled, the inheritances are restored, slaves are set free, it's a picture of salvation.

01:01:49

To comfort those who mourn, to grant to those who mourn in Zion, to give them beautiful headdress instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, the garment of praise instead of a faint spirit, so that they may be called the oaks of righteousness.

01:02:01

And you'll note that in the new earth, rather than our lives being likened to grass, our lives are being likened to oaks.

01:02:08

I like the difference, right? So we are the planting of the Lord that he may be glorified. They shall build up the ancient ruins, they shall raise up the former devastations, they shall repair the ruined cities, the devastations of many generations.

01:02:21

And then going on, for the Lord I love justice, I hate robbery, I'll faithfully give them their recompense,

01:02:27

I will make an everlasting covenant with them, their offspring shall be known among the nations, their descendants in the midst of the people, all who see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the offspring of the

01:02:37

Lord. And I will greatly rejoice in Yahweh, my soul shall exult in God, for he has clothed me with garments of salvation, covered me with a robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself like a priest with a beautiful headdress, like a bride adorns herself with jewels.

01:02:52

For as the earth brings forth its sprouts, and as a garden causes what is sown in it to sprout up, so Yahweh will cause righteousness and praise to sprout up before all the nations.

01:03:03

This is a picture of what's coming. And then you can throw into the mix Psalm 129. This is just a wonderful text, too.

01:03:10

I'm kind of free, you know, free -roading up here, but yeah. Let's see here.

01:03:16

Oh is it, it's not 129, hang on a second here. I'm doing this from memory, but let me look at the text real quick.

01:03:25

I'm gonna grab it. While you're looking it up, I want to say something to everybody listening, and that is Chris Roseborough has a channel of his church sermons, your

01:03:36

Kansvinger. Yeah, kansvingerchurch .org. And put that link underneath the description of all your

01:03:41

Fighting for the Faith videos, and I really want to encourage everybody to listen to this man's sermons. Don't just listen to Fighting for the

01:03:48

Faith, although I want you to listen to Fighting for the Faith, obviously. Thank you. I really, I really appreciate your sermons, and a lot of people who know my channel know that on the

01:03:56

Messed Up Church every week, I put my pastor's sermons, too. And I, yeah, I think that people who are coming out of evangelicalism, they're used to hearing a sermon that's really long with a couple of Scripture verses thrown in, and I want them to see how different it is in a traditional

01:04:10

Lutheran Church, where the Scripture is the focus of the sermon. It's the focus of the entire service, actually.

01:04:16

And Scripture is just kind of surrounding everything that takes place, and what you're demonstrating right now, Chris, is that same thing.

01:04:22

We as Christians are surrounding ourselves with God's Word in the service, in our lives, and how we think about issues.

01:04:28

Yep. All right, so here's the psalm. I was off. I had lycstexia, so I put

01:04:37

Psalm 129 rather than 126. So listen to this, this is a great psalm. When Yahweh restored the fortunes of Zion, we were like those who dream.

01:04:44

This is a picture of, like, our first gawking at the New World, right? You know, and our mouth was filled with laughter, our tongue with shouts of joy, and they said among the nations,

01:04:56

Yahweh has done great things for them. Yahweh has done great things for us, and we are glad. So restore our fortunes,

01:05:01

O Lord, like streams in the Negev. Those who sow in tears shall reap with shouts of joy.

01:05:07

He who goes out weeping, bearing the seed for sowing shall come home with shouts of joy, bringing his sheaves with him.

01:05:14

So the idea here is that, yeah, this life is hard. Consequences of sin are real, and you may be experiencing the consequences of your sin even in your own physical body with your degrading health, and the thing is is that's what age is anyway.

01:05:29

I mean, there's no way I can go back to being a 16 -year -old jumping in the pool and swimming 100 meters in 56 seconds.

01:05:38

I couldn't do that. If I tried, I'd probably have a heart attack and you'd have to fish my body out of the pool, okay?

01:05:45

But the thing is is that in the world that is coming, our youth, our strength, our fortunes, everything is restored.

01:05:52

In a world without sin, where we can see our God with our own eyes, and it's just gonna be amazing.

01:05:59

Worship our God in his presence, visibly see his glory surrounding the earth. We won't even need the sun anymore.

01:06:05

This is what is coming. And so the idea here is that anybody who's basically coming up with this trichotomous view in order to basically say, you can use your spirit band to get your soul valve to do the things so that you can have the blessings in your body, what they're basically doing is selling you magic beans.

01:06:22

That's, at the end of the day, what they're doing. And they're not pointing you to what the Scripture says. And I would say that Andrew Womack, Joyce Meyer, Ken Copeland, Ken Hagen, Jesse Duplantis, Creflo Dollar, and the whole lot of them who all teach these doctrines, none of these are biblical, and you know what?

01:06:40

I can say every one of them are greedy, and the reason why they're telling you these things is to tell you what you want to hear, rather than what you need to hear.

01:06:48

What you need to hear is you're gonna die, alright? And there's nothing that you can do to stop it, and today is the day of salvation.

01:06:55

So I don't know what you're waiting for. If you don't trust in Christ, you are not promised tomorrow.

01:07:00

Neither am I. You know, and to just add on to that a little bit, the guys at the very top, you know,

01:07:08

Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer, etc., I don't trust them at all. I don't think they're sincere. I think they're really bad people.

01:07:15

But you know, that's not the point. The point is, underneath them are a million small -time pastors who might be sincere, and they don't know that this stuff is wrong, because that's all they've ever heard.

01:07:25

That's what they've been taught. They all have Bible schools, you know. There's the Rima Bible School. Even Andrew Womack has his own

01:07:32

Bible school. And if you are in a church where that kind of stuff is being taught, maybe give your pastor a little bit of grace, knowing that that's all he knows, and take the steps necessary to peel back these false layers, go directly to Scripture as much as possible.

01:07:47

So I don't want to be too harsh on every pastor in the entire world who might be teaching this stuff, because they're just clueless.

01:07:53

They've never heard any other option, and they haven't been taught how to properly study the Scripture. But the guys at the very top,

01:08:01

I have no patience for. I think they're really pretty wicked, actually. Yeah, and boy, they've made bazillions of dollars teaching this wickedness.

01:08:11

All right. Well, Kozar, thanks for coming on, and good topic, good discussion.

01:08:17

It's always great to have you. You like my new format here? It looks a little more cleaned up. I don't have you wandering around.

01:08:23

Yeah, I want to get this software you're using, because I really want to start doing interviews for my channel, and I just haven't done it because I don't know technically how to make it all work, and to make it look good or good enough.

01:08:33

So thanks so much for all you're doing, and let's do this again as soon as possible. I really appreciate bringing up the topic and letting you do the heavy lifting again, so thank you.

01:08:43

Well, great. Plus, people like watching us work together. Yeah. It's hilarious.

01:08:50

We always love seeing you in the chat when we do the premiere, because you always show up, you say, Basta! Basta! Ah, Kozar!

01:08:57

And I'm kind of jealous, because it's like, I don't have a really cool, catchy thing. I show up,

01:09:04

I'm like, hi. Kozar shows up, Basta! And then the other day, you weren't even on the premiere, and somebody says, where's

01:09:13

Kozar? And somebody says, no Basta. I've got to put that on my headstone when

01:09:20

I die. I think she's going to say Basta. Basta, yeah. All right. Well, let me sign off, and then we'll log out here.

01:09:29

But hang on one second here. If you found this helpful, all the information on how you can share the video is down below in the description, and so until next time, may

01:09:39

God richly bless you in the grace and mercy won by Jesus Christ and His vicarious death on the cross for all of your sins.