Dead Men Walking Podcast: Jeremy Stalnecker: What's really going on with the Russia/Ukraine War

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Exploring Theology, Doctrine, and all of the Fascinating Subjects in Between, Broadcasting from an

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Undisclosed Location, Dead Men Walking starts now. Well hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast, I'm Greg and thanks for coming along on the ride.

00:24

We appreciate you guys going to dmwpodcast .com, checking out the merch site, sharing our posts on social media, giving us constructive criticism, and just being good audience and listeners and friends.

00:35

We really appreciate you guys. First and foremost, we want to let you know this episode is brought to you by Jacobs Supply, a good friend of mine locally right here in Monroe County, Temperance, Michigan.

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He has quality building products at wholesale prices. What he does is he goes to the big box guys, he buys out at wholesale, passes it on to you.

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You're going to save 30, 40, 50 percent on appliances, building supplies, fencing, roofing, all that stuff.

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He's a good reformed guy too, reformed Presbyterian, so I like him. I go to church with him actually, so go check him out.

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Even if you're from a couple hours away in the Midwest, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, it's worth the drive.

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He always has deals there. We thank you, Jacob, for supporting us, or go to jacobsupply .com. Cool. Now that we got the business out of the way, we're going to jump right into it.

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Usually we do a little, I don't know, a little talk and see what's going on and what's going on in my life, but I want to get right into it because we have an exciting guest on.

01:26

He's returning for the second time, and the first episode he did, geez, it must have been a year and a half.

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I think we were only six months old, and yeah, and it was an awesome episode, got really good reviews.

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You guys liked it. So we have Jeremy Stelnecker back on the podcast.

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He's a veteran author, co -founder of Mighty Oaks. Jeremy, how are you, sir? Doing great. Great to be on with you guys again.

01:50

Yeah. Thanks for coming and being generous with your time. So why don't you give the new listeners, people that maybe didn't hear you about a year and a half ago on the podcast, give them a little update on what's been going on in your life, what you're all about, and what you do.

02:01

Yeah, for sure. As you mentioned, I'm a United States Marine Corps veteran, served, did a number of things, but my last deployment was to Iraq in 2003.

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I was part of the invasion, came home, and transitioned from that, from the Marine Corps onto a church staff, crazy transition, which we could talk about for the whole podcast, but transitioned, had some problems.

02:24

God graciously worked in my life. I've got a great wife, great family, great church, and was able to work through those things.

02:31

Pastored a church for a number of years. I was actually in vocational ministry for about 12 years. And then in the process of that, got to know a good friend, has become really my best friend in life,

02:44

Chad Robichaud. He is also a Marine Corps veteran, had accepted Christ, realized that the answer to this

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PTSD thing, although he had tried drugs and the therapies and all the other stuff, helpful tools, but really together, were not the answer.

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The answer was a relationship with Christ, and he wanted to share that with other veterans who were coming home and struggling. This was in 2011.

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We met, and he asked me to help him get this thing going that we were going to call the Mighty Oaks Foundation, and we've been doing that since then.

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Over 4 ,000 veterans, active duty service members now, a lot of first responders, men and women.

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We have separate programs, over 4 ,000 folks who've come through. Many have accepted Christ, given their lives to Christ, and we've just seen amazing things happen.

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And then we're able to speak on subjects of spiritual resiliency to the active duty community, to the first responder community.

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So it's been pretty amazing, and God's been very good to us to allow us to have that opportunity to share.

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And man, a lot I'd like to say there, but really the foundation, the starting point is a relationship with Jesus Christ, and from there, there are other helpful tools or a lot of things that you can employ.

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But until you have that settled, you're going to struggle with the traumas of life and not be able to really move forward in a purposeful way or in a meaningful way.

03:56

Yeah. So let's just dwell on that just for a few minutes. I don't want to rush past it. Where can people find out about Mighty Oaks?

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But also, let's press down a little bit on what exactly is it that you do at Mighty Oaks? Is it dealing with PTSD and with veterans and things like that, or is it a broad range of things?

04:12

Yeah. When we started back in 2011, 2012, as everyone in the audience would know, the wars had been going for quite a while.

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We were at a crazy time, and particularly the war in Afghanistan, we're pulling out of Iraq. Veterans were coming home with very little hope and very little help.

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And we were able to work with, I would say, active duty military, but folks coming out of the military, combat veterans primarily, who were dealing with trauma related to combat, who didn't know where to turn.

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And what we have done since the beginning was establish that God is, and if God is as the creator, he has created us with purpose and with meaning, and it's when we align our lives to life, he created us to live, and that means an awful lot.

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But when we begin to align our lives to life, he created us to live. The traumas created in combat, created in life, they don't go away.

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You don't get over those things, but they no longer have a hold on us. We're not in bondage to those anymore. We're not slaves to those anymore.

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We're free to move forward in a meaningful, purposeful way. Since that time, the wars have changed, the number of deployed folks have changed, and it's crazy.

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We have continued to work with men and women dealing with trauma, but a lot of it is trauma related to their service still, but trauma that was incurred early in life, a lot of sexual trauma as children, a lot of abuse that is then taken into the military, taken into the law enforcement community, and just really never dealt with.

05:37

So it's trauma. It's life trauma. Trauma is not reserved for veterans or those who have served, but we have a unique platform to speak to those who have served, and we continue to do that.

05:47

Yeah, and where can people find you if they're listening right now and they go, I'd like to check that out or maybe donate to it or volunteer? Yeah, MightyOaksPrograms .org.

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MightyOaksPrograms .org is our website, and just a quick plug, our programs are a week long at locations across the country, but there's no cost to the students.

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So if you're a veteran, active duty service member, first responder, or married to one, we'd love to invite you to go to that website,

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MightyOaksPrograms .org, find an application, apply, no cost to attend, and no cost for travel. We'll even cover the cost of travel to get you there.

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We just want you to find the help that you need. Oh man, that's awesome. That's awesome. So very cool.

06:23

We'll make sure we link that up too when the show goes live. Absolutely. So we kind of have a different angle with you.

06:30

I know last time we talked about Mighty Oaks quite a bit. We talked about your military past a little bit.

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But you told me before we started recording here that you just came back from Ukraine a few weeks ago, and I thought, man, it would be a great idea to have someone like you on, who's had some international experience, obviously been in the military, been there, to maybe talk about this

06:54

Ukraine -Russia war that's going on, because there seems to be so much misinformation and, well, this side or that side, and you have one whole group wanting you to support one country and another whole group wanting you to support another.

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And it's just very geopolitical, and it's above my head, man. Like, I would rather read a theology book and mere

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Christianity with C .S. Lewis and be confused by that by trying to figure out the geopolitical movements of sovereign nations in a part of the world that I will probably never visit.

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So maybe we could just start there, and we'll just jump right into it. Like, what's really going on in your opinion?

07:32

And of course, these are your opinions, but what's really going on over in Ukraine and with the

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Russian invasion? Yeah, so a little background. With the Mighty Oaks Foundation, we work with the military, and we've done that for a decade.

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Four or five years ago, we had a foreign military reach out to us. It's folks that we were connected to, and they said, hey, we can't send people to your program.

07:57

You're not going to pay to have people come to your program from our military. We understand that you're an American military, American veteran -focused organization, but would you send a team to just do seminars, do talks, help our service members understand spiritual resiliency?

08:13

So we were asked to do that, and we've been doing that for about five years. Several countries have asked us to come and do that.

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We've spent time in Europe. We've spent time in South America. So we've been a part of that effort for a while, and really what it comes down to, and we talk about spiritual resiliency, we use these terms, it's communicating the gospel.

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It's communicating that it is a relationship with Jesus Christ that allows us to deal with adversity in our lives.

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And so that's what we talk about. But because of our own background, our own combat experience, we have a unique platform to share that with military people.

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So we've been doing that in 2018 and 2019. My wife and I went to Ukraine and spent three weeks each time there and worked with another organization helping

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Ukrainian soldiers who at the time were fighting in the Donbas region in Crimea, where they're fighting now, but they were fighting then.

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They started in 2014. A conference was put on, a camp was put on, pulled them off of the front line, got them together with their families, and we, my wife and I and some others, had the opportunity to really just pour into them, see a number of folks accept

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Christ, to encourage them. So we've been doing this for a while. And that's where really my interest in Ukraine began, was having that relationship and being there, spending time in Kiev, learning the history of the country, and then learning the history of the relationship between Ukraine and Russia.

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Crazy relationship. We think this all started earlier this year. This has been going on for generations.

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In a very real way, it's been going on since the early 30s. A lot has happened.

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The Soviet Union was formed. Those countries were conscripted, brought in. The Soviet Union broke up.

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And in 2014, Russia started fighting on the border again in the region they're still fighting right now, on the

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Donbas, trying to regain control of what they consider, the Russians consider, lost territories.

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A lot of Russian speakers there, a lot of Russian nationals who moved to Ukraine. It's technically

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Ukraine, but Russia claims that as their territory. And so this has been happening for a long time. Our administration has taken a strong stand.

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The Obama administration did not. That's why Russia moved into Georgia during the Obama administration.

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President Trump came into office and said very clearly, he's not going to allow an invasion of Ukraine to take place.

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In fact, we had American military doing exercises with Ukrainian soldiers on the border.

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So clearly communicating, we're not going to allow that to happen. The administration changed. And apparently, we're not taken as seriously in that region.

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And so Russia did what they have been trying to do really for, certainly since the early 90s, but in a very real way since 2014.

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And so what we're seeing is the continuation of an effort that's been going on for a long time.

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And it's unfortunate because most of the world doesn't realize that. Even being in Kiev, which is a few hundred miles from the eastern border.

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Being Kiev in 2018 and 2019, a lot of people there go about their lives or have not understanding that 10 ,000

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Ukrainian soldiers were killed between 2014 and the beginning of this war now.

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So this has been going on for a long time. The reasons are debatable, I guess. Yeah.

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I think from a strategic standpoint, Russia wants control of the Black Sea. Up to this point, they have not had a land bridge, a way to move vehicles on land into eastern

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Europe. And further, if they wanted to do that, they need to do that through Ukraine. And so that's a big part of this.

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But really controlling shipping, controlling movement of goods, and controlling that eastern border,

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I think is the primary objective. Although now it's devolved into something probably very different.

12:03

Something that could have been over in a few weeks. I mean, we have no idea how long this is going to last now.

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No, you make a very good point because you have the younger generation that, I would say, not only the younger generation, but many

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Americans that don't really see past maybe a year's worth of history normally. You know, 2008 and 9 and 10.

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And I can't remember when Georgia was invaded, but it wasn't that long ago.

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I mean, we're talking a little over a decade, maybe, or just about a decade. And you talk to Americans and they don't remember it.

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I don't know. They just didn't know the first time around. So the history here is pretty long.

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Like you said, they've tried to do this. And would you be in the camp of saying that, as someone who's been in the military, that that probably was the best strategy under a

12:54

Trump administration to kind of show strength to keep Russia out? As Americans, should we be worried if Russia is invading

13:03

Ukraine? I mean, you got to realize, too, and you probably know this. I mean, Ukraine is rife with just all kinds of corruption for generations, too, even in their politics.

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Now, that's not to say anything about the people or anything like that. We have corrupt politicians here, right? So you look at it and you go, oh, my gosh, there's just a lot going on there.

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So this is a long question, but I was really befuddled when I went, wow, everyone kind of went right to support

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Ukraine, mainstream media, all your elites, all news channels. And it was, and I'm not saying we should not support them or support them, but it seemed like it was almost like pre -planned that we absolutely, is it a foregone conclusion that absolutely we should stand with Ukraine?

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Or do we look and say, well, Russia might have some points? Like, what's your thoughts on that? This is really complicated, right?

13:54

Yeah. So I think fundamentally, as Americans, and this is something we've screwed up forever, right?

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I just read an incredible book called Stalin's War. For your listeners, if you're interested in World War II from a

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Russian perspective and the manipulation of Stalin against our administration and even Churchill in the

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UK, it's an amazing book, but they break a lot of this down. And what we're seeing in many ways is a replay of this, but it's complicated.

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But what we have to understand as Americans is that our administration needs to act in our best interest.

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Now, that's not to say that we need to allow countries like Russia to roll over sovereign nations like Ukraine.

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Certainly, it's in our best interest to have a free Ukraine. They produce much of the world's grain. They produce and allow much of the world's energy resources to either be produced there or flow through there.

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There are a lot of reasons for us to be there and to support Ukraine, but we have taken this really strange position that I don't know we should have,

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A. And B, we have incentivized the Ukrainian administration, the president and his administration.

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We've incentivized them to drag this out as long as possible. Now, this falls into the category of my opinion.

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But when we have sent over $50 billion of aid and we'll send more, we continue to prop up a government that, frankly,

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Ukraine is not a third world country by any means, but they're not a developing nation. They're not a first world country.

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They will be now. We just invested more financial resources in Ukraine than our military budget annually.

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We have incentivized them, that is the Ukrainian government, to drag this out as long as possible.

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So I think we're definitely missing the mark on how we're handling it as a nation. But again, it is complicated.

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It's not an easy thing to address or understand. But however, showing strength has always been the best way to deter these nations or deter these nations like Russia, all of these, you know, what we call bad actors back in the 80s, from doing things that they wouldn't otherwise do if they know there is a potential consequence.

16:12

So let me push down on something. So strange position, you said. So are you saying maybe the position that's strange is that we haven't taken swifter, more decisive action and letting it draw out?

16:23

Is that what you're saying when you say, the United States have kind of taken a strange position on this? We've taken a strange position in that we allowed it to happen, first of all.

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So having projected strength, President Trump prevented this from happening.

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And this is something that, you know, Vladimir Putin has been talking about since at least 2014 and beyond.

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It was prevented because there was the potential that the United States would deal harshly with anyone coming into a sovereign nation.

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We've seen this in other places. We saw it in Syria. We saw it in other places as well. Because of strength, the projection of strength and the promise of action if something were to happen.

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We didn't do that. In fact, we said it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. We allowed it to happen.

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Not only did we allow it to happen, but we allowed the Russian military to make their way all the way to Kiev, which is not on the border.

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That's several hundred miles. We allowed that to happen. And then we responded. And we've responded by,

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I mean, basically penalizing the people of Russia who had nothing to do with this by putting the

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Russian government in a position where they have to do something because we've shut down everything economically.

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They have no option. We've invited countries like China and others to join

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Russia in this economic block that they've created. And we've propped up a government that has no reason to negotiate with Russia now.

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And so why aren't there talks? Why haven't there been talks? Because there's absolutely no reason to. Again, this is opinion, but Zelensky and his wife today were on the cover of,

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I think it was Vogue magazine or one of those fashion magazines. What possible motivation does he have to bring it into this war?

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Yeah, well, no, that's true. And, you know, you mentioned China there. You know, we've been hearing a lot about China even in the last five, eight years as well, much more.

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Well, I mean, I was homeschooled. So I got a different education than most public schools. So we were studying geopolitics in fourth grade, you know, so we've known about China for quite a while.

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But even in the public kind of ether, China has been at the forefront. Does this affect our relationship with China?

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Or could it affect us negatively? This invasion, and what does China get out of it? What's interesting about China and all of this,

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I've had this conversation with actual experts. I'm not an expert, but with actual experts, what's interesting is in the early days of the invasion, if you remember, there was a lot of conversation about if the

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United States and the global community have allowed Russia to move into Ukraine, then China's next action, even using that invasion as cover will be to move into Taiwan, which they've been talking about for generations.

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And a lot of experts, you know, very overtly said, that's what's going to happen.

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And it hasn't happened. Again, I think it's interesting to see what's happened to Russia.

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They've been shown to be in many ways a paper tiger. They haven't had the strength that they projected.

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And the Ukrainian people have been able to push them back. I think Russia's regrouped. They're going to ultimately win, whatever that looks like.

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But I wonder if that's not been a warning shot across the bow of China. China has not done anything with Taiwan.

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Taiwan or China rather is waiting to see what will happen with Russia and how the global community will respond.

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I think the interesting position this has put America in is that we haven't done anything militarily to help

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Ukraine. And so it could also be extrapolated. We won't do anything militarily to help Taiwan, which make no mistake, is the only reason

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China has not moved in and reclaimed Taiwan. Economically, however,

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Russia has formed a block of countries, including China, that continue to support them. China, India, some of the largest economies in the world.

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And so it continues to benefit China to be a friend of Russia and to push back philosophically as communists on the capitalists who are trying to keep

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Russia from doing what they want to do. So it's kind of the enemy of my enemy is my friend situation.

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And I think they'll stay out of it as long as they can. Yeah. So, you know, as someone who was deployed and as someone who has just came back from Ukraine, how do you see this thing turning out?

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Are we looking at a year, five years, 10 years? Is this something that you think will be dealt with?

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I don't wanna say dealt with, that's a bad, you know, will come to some type of resolution sooner rather than later?

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Or is this something that might be going on for years? Well, that really just depends on who you talk to.

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It will come to some kind of resolution. I'm talking to you, Jenny. I don't know.

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So I was in the camp early on that said, this will be over in two weeks. They're going to negotiate a peace.

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They've been fighting over the border forever. They'll negotiate. It doesn't make sense to see tens of thousands of Ukrainians die, you know, in the process of what's happening, but it continues.

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So clearly I was wrong. Something will happen. Something will be negotiated, whether that will be a peace, which is what, which

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I doubt. Putin needs to save face. He's not going to pull out. He's not going to allow

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Ukraine to have beat him. Now, the wild card is a change of administration in Russia, which, you know, who knows if that happens, that could be their out.

21:48

Putin goes, whoever comes in, says that was his thing and we're out. I don't know. And I don't really see that happening.

21:54

Are there talks of that? Are there talks of Putin maybe moving aside or stepping down, or I don't see that.

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Of being moved aside. I mean, there have been those talks. Russia's run by oligarchs, just like Ukraine is.

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So there are ruling families, but Putin has such a stronghold in Russia that the likelihood of that, unless he dies or is killed is not very high.

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So I think he needs to save face, which to me means he's going to keep what he has and what he wants, which is the

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Donbass and Crimea. Now, will Ukraine let him have that or see that?

22:28

Of course not. So probably, at least in my mind, the most likely scenario is that Russia will hold what they have.

22:37

They'll declare a ceasefire. So they're still at war, but they'll declare a ceasefire. And Ukraine and Russia, as they have for almost 10 years, will continue to live in a state of war, but it won't be a shooting war.

22:51

It will be more of a stalemate and nothing will really change. Now, what will change potentially is that Ukraine will be admitted into NATO and into the

23:04

EU, which is, we'll see. And that could change a lot. A whole nother podcast right there.

23:10

That could change a lot. So when you were there, what was the response like with the people?

23:17

This podcast is constantly in the top five or top eight podcasts for Apple in the

23:23

Ukraine, because we covered it at the very beginning. And we thank you, all you Ukraine listeners and people tuning in.

23:29

What was it like when you're talking to the people there? Are they for this, against this? Are they going, this is unneeded?

23:35

I mean, I know we had, even when we went into Iraq and Afghanistan, we had a lot of different opinions within the

23:41

United States, you know, between different types of people. What was your kind of, what was the temperature when you were there?

23:47

Yeah. So in everything that we just said and everything that is said about this, we could just kind of take our arm and wipe the board clean, right?

23:54

Yeah. And here's what has happened. The nation of Russia has invaded the sovereign nation of Ukraine.

24:02

That has happened. We could argue over reasons and administrations and who's doing what and why and so forth, how it's gonna end.

24:09

But what has happened is Russia has invaded Ukraine. And Ukrainians are very patriotic people as they should be.

24:17

They love their country and they're not interested in Russia imposing their will on Ukraine.

24:23

Again, a piece of history. If we go back to 1932 and 33, when the Soviet Union was collectivizing farms in Eastern Europe and particularly in Ukraine, some 10 million

24:33

Ukrainians lost their lives through forced famine in what's called the Holodomor in 32 and 33.

24:39

They were then conscripted into the Soviet Union. Khrushchev, who became, you know, the premier of Russia was from Ukraine.

24:48

I mean, this is a bad, long history they've had. So they're not interested in Russia imposing their will there.

24:55

So I think the people of Ukraine will fight and will push back as long as they absolutely need to.

25:01

And this is the crazy story is the people who are caught in the middle of what is very political and what is very globally political.

25:08

I'll tell you this though, and this is crazy and I love it. In Ukraine, aid, care, protection, defense, all of it is happening through local churches.

25:23

It's been absolutely amazing. I have friends who pastor a church in Nikolaev and it's right on the border and they've been without power.

25:33

They've been without water and they're staying. They're not going. They could leave. They're not because they're ministering to the people in their community.

25:39

And that is happening throughout the country of Ukraine. It's Christian people who've come together. The chaplains there who we're working with are pastors who put on uniforms and are now serving as chaplains.

25:51

These aren't paid people. These are volunteers who are communicating the gospel. And that's happening.

25:56

So what's the mood in Kiev? There are airstrikes. There are missile strikes.

26:02

People go inside. They take cover. Then they go back outside to the city the size of Los Angeles and they continue life as usual.

26:09

In other places, they're rebuilding out of the rubble. Certainly on the east, eastern side of the country, they're fighting.

26:17

We've lost friends there, but they're continuing to fight and they'll continue to push back and they don't really care why

26:23

Russia's there. They're going to make sure they don't stay. Yeah, because that really seems to be the big thing that no one's really talking about is with this global power play, it feels like the

26:33

Ukrainian people and the Russian people, the citizens of both countries are the ones that are getting the brunt of this, whether through death or economic issues.

26:42

It's like no one's talking about a war that close with two powers like that really hurts the citizens that might not.

26:50

Obviously, when one sovereign nation invades another, yeah, there's issues there, but it's also like, man, people are, they can't eat, they can't buy energy, they're dying from missile strikes and everything else.

27:04

And we're not really talking about that at all. We're just talking about global issues,

27:10

I guess you would say. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And it is the people who are there who are extremely heroic.

27:17

They're just making it happen, which is so inspiring to see. There's no reason they should be able to push back against a country like Russia, but they've not only pushed back, they pushed back in an amazing way that no one expected.

27:32

So, yeah. And then again, the Russian people, I can't even imagine, we don't have a lot of information coming out, but the world's economy has shut down the

27:43

Russian economy. Now Russia has turned and is rebuilding with some other very powerful countries, but the

27:50

Russian people, as they historically have, are really the ones along with Ukrainians who are struggling, suffering through this.

27:57

And it's so awesome, the point you made of, the gospel is gonna go forth and the body of Christ doing what the body of Christ does, serving and loving across any border because they have a regenerated spirit in Christ.

28:12

And that's my favorite part of it. I hate the fact that people are losing their lives or families being separated and all those things.

28:20

But at the same time, when things like this happen, this is really when the body of Christ shines.

28:26

It's when they are bonded together under duress, right? We see that in the New Testament all the time.

28:32

It was like, man, when there was people coming to martyr people, that's when the gospel got preached and the glory of God was shown.

28:39

And if there's anything good that can come out of that and glorify God, it's things like that.

28:45

And I thank you for being part of that and having your ministry over there as well too, because you said you were over there talking to people and training and all those things too.

28:53

So you're part of that. I appreciate you doing that. As we finish this up here, do you got a final word for us on any of this as we put bookends on this episode?

29:02

Well, it's hard to know what to think and what to feel about all of this. But the point that was just made is the right point.

29:08

Regardless of politics, regardless of everything else that's happening in the world and particularly that part of the world, there are very real people, very real families, very real men and women who are dealing with this.

29:19

And it's so inspiring. And it has been to see how friends of mine, people that I've just met, people

29:25

I've been introduced to, they're just doing it. And there's just no other way to say it. They're just doing it to see the body of Christ come together.

29:33

Chaplains who are inviting us there saying, speak on whatever you want to call it, but what they need is

29:38

Jesus. They tell them about Jesus. They need to know about Jesus. Right. It's pretty awesome to see and super inspiring.

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And sometimes it makes me feel bad about the American church. Again, another whole podcast. But those guys are doing it and super awesome.

29:55

We need to pray for them and continue to lift them up. Well, Jeremy, I love that you came back on again.

30:01

We love your energy. We love your knowledge. I appreciate Mighty Oaks and what you're doing out there. If there's anything we can ever do to help, definitely let us know.

30:10

Guys, thanks so much for listening to another episode. We're going to link up Jeremy's Mighty Oaks Foundation everywhere you get the podcasts on YouTube, social media.

30:19

Make sure you go check him out. If there's any way that you can help him, be sure to do that. Jeremy, thank you so much for being on again, man.

30:26

And just shedding a little light on a very confusing subject sometimes for people and in bringing your experience and knowledge to the episode.

30:34

So I appreciate it. No, I appreciate you guys. Thanks for everything you're doing. All right, guys. Thanks so much for listening.

30:39

As always, check out dmwpodcast .com a little. Check out a little more about us. You can go to the merch site, support the show as always.

30:46

God bless. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at dead men walking podcast for full video podcast episodes and clips or email us at dead men walking podcast at gmail .com.