Yes They’re Gaslighting You, and It’s all About Power

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November 18, 2021

Adam Greenway decided to do what Danny Akin typically does: Deny his school has any issue with Marxism, point to its faith statement, accuse anyone with contrary evidence of lying and slander, and then shame them publicly. This video demonstrates there is cause for concern at SWBTS and Greenway is engaging in bullying, projection, and hypocrisy.

00:13: Welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast. My name is John Harris. We are going to take a little bit of a tour today.
00:21: It's really more of an illustration, that's why I'm using this, but we will take a little journey into the world of Twitter.
00:28: I don't do that as much as I used to. I used to go on Twitter and look at all kinds of things, but I got rid of my
00:34: Twitter at the end of last year, or I forget, beginning of this year, maybe, January, something like that.
00:41: Many of my friends, I had already been scaling back my participation in the format. I was shadow banned.
00:47: Many of my friends had been completely banned, and there's ...
00:53: I don't know. It's kind of the level ... I was reminded of this as I was looking at some of the threads.
00:59: The level of engagement is, much of the time, elementary school playground level engagement.
01:04: It's just not interesting to me much anymore, but there's still a lot of things that happened on Twitter, not as many things as there used to be, but there still are some.
01:13: This is one of those things. I thought it was just a good illustration of just a number of things
01:19: I've wanted to talk about. It just encapsulates so many of them, so I thought, yeah, we'll talk about this.
01:27: Yes, they are gaslighting you, and it's all about power. That's why they gaslight you.
01:32: That's why they try to make you think that you're crazy, that you didn't really hear what you heard, you didn't see what you saw.
01:38: You're the one that's actually making the accusations, and in a parallel universe, while they're the reasonable ones.
01:45: If they get enough people to ... On Twitter, especially, it's easy to do this, right? So many conservatives are purged from that format, and conservatives don't usually participate in that venue as much anyway.
01:56: If you get enough people to like your post, and to retweet it, and to say positive things about it, then you can kind of start to believe your own lies.
02:06: That's, to be honest with you, how Twitter, I think, is used often, especially by the left. This is an illustration of that, but it is a bully tactic that I'm going to show you, and it is completely vacuous.
02:22: If you're someone that's rooted in truth, you're grounded, you don't want lies, and you're just going to follow it wherever it leads.
02:30: You don't care what kind of names you're called. When someone says racist, sexist, homophobic, it just bounces right off of you, because you care about truth.
02:38: If you're one of those people, and you're not afraid of those things, this attack won't bother you in the least.
02:43: It doesn't matter. You might even laugh at it. But if you're afraid of those things, which most people are,
02:50: I hate to say it, even conservatives, even people in the quote -unquote opposition to CRT, in the
02:57: Christian conservative circles, they're deathly afraid of that. They're deathly afraid of any association that could possibly, the left could use to call them racist, even though the left calls them that anyway, and they just run from it.
03:11: It is a powerful, effective weapon, and it shouldn't be. We need to take the sting out of this. Who cares if someone is called names?
03:18: Who cares if you're called a liar? If all manner of evil is said against you for the right reasons, especially for the name of Christ, for the truth of defending the things that Christ cares about, his commands, his gospel, the word of God on which we find them.
03:37: If that's what you're defending, then look, hey, you're rewarded for that. Do a little jig, rejoice.
03:46: And it's easier said than done, I understand that. But this is, anyway, this is just an example in my mind of what
03:51: I'm gonna show you of a ridiculous attack, and I'm just gonna reinforce for everyone, look, you're not crazy.
03:58: You're not crazy. And I want to also, for those who might be, I don't know if they are, but if anyone's listening who is being attacked or about to be attacked, who knows, maybe
04:09: I'm about to be attacked, I don't know, I get it every so often anyway, then listen to this.
04:16: Listen to what I have to say about this and then respond accordingly. I just hope it is encouraging to you and then also motivating to you to just kind of like stand firm.
04:31: Don't budge an inch. Don't let these bullies make you do something that you know is wrong.
04:37: And it is wrong to confess something, to call something sin that God has not called sin, to apologize for something that's not really wrong,
04:47: I have a hard time with that, guys. I think that is wrong. What you're doing is you're engaging in a lie.
04:52: You are, and if it's something that isn't in conformity with God's law, you're apologizing for something, for breaking some man -made law, then you're giving that a place of prominence.
05:02: You're saying that's an important standard to keep in comparison to God's actual law. So I just,
05:08: I say that's wrong. That's wrong. Don't do it. Stand firm. Stand firm. Stand in what you know, what you believe.
05:13: All right, let's get into it because none of you know what the story is yet. Some of you might, but we're going to start here.
05:21: This is what has caused the issue. Adam Greenway, the president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, put this out this afternoon.
05:29: He said, it is with deep disappointment, but strong conviction that I have sent the following letter to Dr.
05:34: Michael Spradlin, prayerfully requesting him to reconsider the decision by Mid -America
05:42: Baptist Theological Seminary to post the premiere of a film whose trailer contains scandalous and scurrilous slander against Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.
05:50: Now, for those who don't know, Mid -America is separate from the Southern Baptist Convention. It is not an official
05:56: Southern Baptist Convention seminary, yet it has an association with the Southern Baptist Convention.
06:02: Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary is the same way, Liberty University. So they're not directly affiliated, but they are indirectly affiliated, if that makes sense to anyone.
06:12: In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think Adrian Rogers started Mid -America and it's still somewhat loosely affiliated with his church, which is a
06:20: Southern Baptist church. And many of the people who graduate from there go on to Southern Baptist churches and Southern Baptist institutions and become missionaries for NAM and that kind of thing.
06:31: So there is a relationship there. But yet, wisely probably, Adrian Rogers did not put it under the direct oversight of the
06:41: Southern Baptist Convention. And look, one of the things, a point
06:46: I want to make just right off the top, is how come there's only one seminary that seems like it's not circling the wagons, it hasn't really gone woke, it's actually resisted some of these things to some extent.
06:56: It's the one that's not actually in the machine, at least as tied as closely to the machine.
07:03: So it's not officially under the Southern Baptist Convention. I think that is interesting.
07:09: But it's Mid -America, and Mid -America is hosting, from what I understand, the screening of the movie
07:15: Enemies Within the Church. And that, I guess it's in,
07:21: I don't even know if they approved of the movie as much as maybe they were just hosting a conservative Baptist network event, and Enemies Within the
07:27: Church happens to be at that event. So either way, it's happening on their campus.
07:34: And Adam Greenway, the president of Southwestern, which is an official Southern Baptist school, has a big problem with this.
07:40: So puts the official seal of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary on a draft, a form letter from, it says
07:48: Adam W. Greenway, president on it, very official. And this is what he says, President Spradlin, I write to you to express my deep disappointment that the institution you lead has plans to host a film premiere, in quotes, right?
08:01: It's not even a real film, in quotes, of, again, quote, Enemies Within the
08:06: Church, unquote, this Saturday, November 20th, in apparent coordination with the conservative Baptist network.
08:13: The film's trailer contains campus footage of the institution. I am privileged to lead, overlaid with narrative insinuations of Marxism.
08:21: Presumably intended to leave viewers with the mistaken impression that Southwestern Seminary is something other than orthodox,
08:27: Baptist, and evangelical. Now let's stop there for one second. I didn't know this. I don't think probably hardly anyone knew this when they were watching that trailer, that was
08:36: Southwestern Seminary being used, overlaid with these terms. I just don't think so.
08:42: I just doubt it. But now everyone does that's seen this. And so, okay, they were using that.
08:49: Now whether that's fair or not, I'm just pointing out that no one probably would have known, but now they do.
08:55: So Greenway is putting it out there, spreading the news that this trailer contains this. So already, you have to wonder, what's the strategy here?
09:04: And I will talk about that at the end, but why bring attention to this? Because this is, any press is probably good press for Enemies Within the
09:10: Church. Any movie, right? I've gotten into a little bit of documentary filmmaking. Anytime anyone talks about it, it's always good.
09:17: Even if it's negative, it brings attention to it and people want to see it. So you got to wonder, okay, what's the angle here?
09:23: Why is he saying this? I take strong umbrage to such scandalous and, umbrage, you don't hear that word much.
09:30: By the way, Al Mohler uses that term a lot. Anyway, I take strong umbrage to such scandalous and scurrilous slander, particularly when it is apparently condoned by an institution such as yours.
09:41: Furthermore, I believe your late predecessor in office, B. Gray Allison, would strongly disapprove of his seminary's involvement in matters such as showing his film and supporting the
09:50: CBN, given what has been attested in Mid -America Baptist Theological Seminary's own publications.
09:57: Okay, so Gray Allison, this is just an appeal to authority.
10:02: This is just, hey, if you don't listen to me, listen to this person. It's kind of irrelevant, but it's meant to further circle wagons and create the impression that, look, a lot of strong people in powerful positions are against what you are doing.
10:18: So it's to minimize the person that he's writing to. Former academic vice president
10:23: Howard Bickers wrote in 1992 concerning Mid -America, The seminary prohibits any negative criticism of any
10:28: Southern Baptist agency, leader, or program by speakers in the classrooms and in chapel services.
10:34: The leaders of the seminary believe that the institution best fulfills its purpose when a Christlike spirit and stance of positive support are engendered.
10:42: Consequently, the energies of the seminary are focused upon the training of students rather than upon participation in divisive issues within the convention.
10:50: So he's saying basically if you partner with conservative Baptist network at all, you let them use your facility to host an event, then you are breaking the, you are in violation of the vision of the former academic vice president
11:03: Howard Bickers in 1992. So again, recruiting another person to try to create pressure here, you're out of step
11:12: You're the weird one. You're the unusual person that's doing things not in accordance with what the rest of us and those who are authoritative would do.
11:21: And it's not Christlike. It's not, you're, you're, you're breaking this. Since these sentiments characterize
11:26: Mid -America Baptist Theological Seminary during the SBC's much needed conservative resurgence, should they not even more so now, given that both our institutions confess congruent convictions concerning biblical authority, inerrancy, and sufficiency.
11:38: Now, by the way, I got to say this, you'll see this again later. This is the one thing they have that they always go back to,
11:46: Hey, we got a statement of faith. You have a statement of faith. The assumption there is always that they are following it.
11:52: That's the hidden assumption. If we have the statement of faith, we must be acting in accordance with it.
11:59: That is not a valid assumption. It doesn't mean that you're Orthodox in every sense, just because you have an
12:06: Orthodox statement of faith. You could be violating it in places and you're just not enforcing the violations.
12:12: I prayerfully ask you to reconsider the decision to show this film and to withdraw support from those working to divide our convention by engaging in untruthful attacks against SBC entities like Southwestern Seminary.
12:22: Okay, so he's accusing them of lying. He says, let's say you're supporting lies, but he doesn't list any of the lies here. That's another strategy.
12:29: There's no, so, so it's heaping guilt on them. It's making them feel small, that they're out of step, that they're disobeying their own authority and the vision of the people that would have been instrumental in setting up Mid -America, and accusing them of giving safe harbor to liars who are slandering and divisive people, and yet there's nothing specific stated here.
12:54: No actual, here's the lie. The only thing you can possibly try to say is a lie, you know, that he clues you into is that, hey, they're saying that we have, the film's trailer says that there's some narrative of Marxism going on, and that we're something other than orthodox.
13:12: That's the only thing he's got. That's it. But there's no specifics other than that. Clearly he hasn't seen the film, or at least he's not letting on that he has, he's just saying something about the trailer.
13:23: Now, the usual crowd of social justice activists who like to kind of hang around the
13:29: Southern Baptist Convention and oftentimes wreak havoc or move it in the leftward direction, decided to weigh in on this.
13:37: And I just gave you a few examples there, Dean and Sarah, Hannah Kate, Adam Greenway was retweeted by Danny Akin at Southeastern, I do think you will probably see more of this.
13:47: In the days ahead, you will see more of it, you'll see more attacks, you'll see more seminaries, probably circling the wagons, and in my opinion, it'll probably be all one big mistake.
13:56: And maybe they're testing the waters, I don't know, but it will be a rah -rah on Twitter in the echo chamber to make them feel like they have the momentum and that people don't, that people will also join with them to heap scorn on South, or rather on Mid -America.
14:16: And I'll tell you, I'll talk more about the strategy at the end, but I think they're making a mistake here.
14:22: That's just my opinion. I think the ground has shifted underneath them and they're not quite keeping up with it, because all this is gonna do, in my opinion, is gonna create more attention towards the film.
14:33: And that's what they don't want. They don't want people seeing this film, but yet they're going to come out here and attack it.
14:40: So I think if they're between a rock and a hard place, what do we do? And this is what they're doing right now.
14:45: But we'll see if they reel it back in. They may reel it back in when they realize that tactical error. And that's my opinion.
14:51: I just think it's probably a tactical error if that's their goal, to keep people from seeing this. Because that seems to be the state of the goal here.
14:58: Hey, don't show this at Mid -America, but now you're going online with it and all these people that didn't know about the film now know about the film.
15:07: Now I want to go through some things about Greenway. Now is Greenway and is Southwestern, is what he said true?
15:14: Oh, they're not Marxists. They're Orthodox. Is it true, though? And I'm just going to give you a few pieces of evidence here, and I'll let you decide for yourself.
15:23: Adam Greenway, October 31st, 2019, for Reformation Day. He said,
15:30: The time has come to finish the shift from the Confederate culture of our origins to a global vision of mission, ministry, embracing all peoples without distinction.
15:37: We are with Christ after the loss, not the lost cause. Honestly, it's just kind of a dumb, just juvenile tweet, but I think what he's trying to say is like, hey, we're more diverse.
15:50: We're diverse. That's the main thing he's trying to get across there. Again, he says this,
15:56: What an incredible weekend it was to be with Dr. Ed Young and the great SBC Houston family of faith. Second, it is a diverse, multicultural
16:03: Southern Baptist Church baptizing thousands of new believers every year. Thank you, Dr. Young's gracious hospitality and support.
16:10: So again, valuing this multicultural Southern Baptist Church. You have this from Adam Greenway, Pursuing racial diversity is a way we bear witness to the gospel, quoting
16:21: Dr. or Pastor Drew Erickson, teaching from Acts 10.
16:27: So he has, he values some kind of ethnic diversity, right? I hope everyone's seeing that. Now, I'm going to come back to that, but let's just put that in the back of your mind.
16:39: Okay, Adam Greenway values ethnic diversity and thinks we should somehow push for ethnic diversity somehow, or make conditions so that things are more ethnically diverse.
16:49: Now here's another thing to add to this list. SBC leaders have published a statement grieving the recent death of George Floyd and calling for an end of racial inequality in the distribution of justice in our country.
17:00: I was grateful to join with all my fellow SBC entity heads in making this statement. This is from May 30th, 2020, and Greenway signed this statement and let me read for you part of the statement that a number of other
17:11: Southern Baptists, I think Al Mohler signed this, I believe, by the way, Danny Akin signed it, Jason Allen, Jamie Dew.
17:18: As a convention of churches committed to the equality and dignity of all people, Southern Baptists grieve the death of George Floyd, who was killed
17:24: May 25th, 2020 in Minneapolis. While all must grieve, we understand that in the hearts of our fellow citizens of color, incidents like these connect to a long history of unequal justice in our country, going back to the grievous
17:34: Jim Crow and slavery eras. The images and information we have available to us in this case are horrific and remind us that there is much work to be done to ensure that there is not even a hint of racial inequity in the distribution of justice in our country.
17:48: We grieve to see examples of the misuse of force and call for these issues to be addressed with speed and justice.
17:53: While we thank God for our law enforcement officers that bravely risk their lives for the sake of others and uphold justice with dignity and integrity, we also lament when some law enforcement officers misuse their authority and bring unnecessary harm on people they are called to protect.
18:07: We further grieve with our minority brothers and sisters in the wake of Floyd's death, pray for his family and friends, and greatly desire to see the misuse of force and inequitable distribution of justice come to an end.
18:20: This is soft critical race theory language. This is connecting, it is basically saying that this
18:27: George Floyd's death was motivated by racism. It connects to Jim Crow and slavery, saying that, implying that there's not an equal distribution of justice in our country, that there needs to be a more equitable, there needs to be a redistribution that you would think, right, if there's unequal distribution of justice, we need a redistribution of justice, which is exactly what the left was pushing.
18:48: And all these guys, including Al Mohler, signed it, but Adam Greenway also signed it. So this happened, put that in the back of your mind as well, say, okay,
18:57: Adam Greenway wants to push for ethnic diversity, Adam Greenway signed this kind of soft woke statement.
19:04: It's not even really soft, it's a woke statement in the wake of the George Floyd situation. Now it appears that Greenway also was in support of the
19:16: SBC executive committee waiving attorney client privilege because of the Me Too movement and the abuse allegations and all of this.
19:24: So if you look at some of these tweets, he says that everyone should listen to what
19:31: Bart Barber has to say, his perspective on what's at stake with the SBC executive committee.
19:37: You watch the video and what Bart Barber seems to be talking about more than anything else in this is sole member privilege, and even says if they refuse to waive privilege, they are acting contrary to the overwhelmingly expressed vote of the messengers.
19:53: So Adam Greenway is retweeting this video in which Bart Barber argues that they need to waive privilege, but it's in the context of all this of when there's a debate about attorney client privilege.
20:09: And so it seems to me like what Adam Greenway is signaling, and you'll see in a tweet
20:14: I'm about to show you, is that that's a good thing, that the executive committee of the
20:21: Southern Baptist Convention should waive it, or at least it's not a big deal if they waive that, and they should follow the dictates of the messengers who apparently want this waived.
20:33: Now Greenway questioned the motives of those angry over the waiving of attorney client privilege. This is what kind of in my mind sealed this understanding that, okay,
20:41: I think he at least doesn't have a problem with them waiving this. And he reposts this thread from Amy Carter Whitfield, I think she might be the wife of Keith Whitfield, the provost at Southeastern, I'm not sure, but she has this long thread and basically the long and short of it is that those who are upset about the waiving of attorney client privilege should basically check themselves and they shouldn't be angry with anyone except abusers, really.
21:15: So it's wrong to, it's kind of this false dichotomy that if you get angry at that, well then you're somehow taking away from being angry at actual abuse.
21:24: It's a manipulative thing that she's saying. But Adam Greenway reposts this and finds this totally valid.
21:30: So he's running cover for those who are supporting the waiver of attorney client privilege, which we talked about that at the time was a very foolish thing to do and really is probably one of the most foolish things that's ever happened in the
21:46: SBC executive committee. It's just insane. Now he also defended
21:51: Ed Litton. Okay. So put that in your back of your mind. Adam Greenway wants diversity. According to what he said, ethnic diversity,
21:58: Adam Greenway, I can't even remember everything I put down here. He signed the woke statement in the wake of the
22:05: George Floyd's death. Adam Greenway to some extent at least supports or at least opposes those who were concerned about the waiver of attorney client privilege.
22:15: And then he defends Ed Litton amidst his non -apology over serial plagiarism.
22:21: In fact, he sat down with him and they had a whole discussion. I talked about it on this podcast where Ed Litton pretty much blamed everyone but himself and just, he didn't apologize, made out kind of like he did, but it really was not.
22:35: It was horrible. And Adam Greenway just kind of accepted that and said, again, publicly going out there saying he appreciates
22:44: Ed Litton's helpful words in his statement, another non -apology on the sermon series, and then advertises the chapel with Ed Litton, gives him the platform.
22:54: So put that in the back of your mind as well. Adam Greenway doesn't have a problem with someone being a serial plagiarizer as long as I guess they're in an institutional power in the
23:05: Southern Baptist Convention. He's fine with endorsing that on some level. It's not like he even just had them there to preach.
23:11: They literally talked about that issue and Ed Litton just squirmed and blamed all kinds of other people and said how he just, basically, he's got such a good memory and he's got to take a break from listening to sermons.
23:24: A sermon breaks sabbatical because it's just too hard for him. He just remembers so many things, and that wasn't the issue.
23:30: We all know that. So many times he was just reading transcripts. Okay, so we see all that.
23:37: Now here's the question. Does he really want diversity? Does Adam Greenway at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary really want diversity?
23:44: No, not really. Here's what Bobby Lopez wrote in November 16th, 2019.
23:50: A new president took office, Adam Greenway, and fired 26 professors in 24 hours. And by the way,
23:56: I do have the names of those professors somewhere. I know
24:01: I talked about them in a previous episode. The majority of them are, the vast majority are minorities, ethnic minorities, and women.
24:10: Many women in that group. He fired them in 24 hours, sending a clear signal to all of us that we were eminently replaceable.
24:17: Greenway told us that this was due to budget cuts, then turned around and hired at least six new professors, all white, from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, the place he had just left.
24:27: Why do this? If you're all about ethnic diversity, why fire so many ethnically diverse people and then hire a bunch of white people?
24:36: That would be getting, if a CBN person did that, they would be in so big trouble for that.
24:41: They would be called racist. They'd be called all kinds of things. How come Adam Greenway gets a pass on this? And one of the things you'll see, if you haven't noticed it yet, is if you are on the side of the revolution in any way, if you're pushing that needle towards the left, then you get a pass on this stuff.
24:55: Because the issue is always the revolution. The issue is never racism, it's never actually sexism or any of the stuff that they claim to care about.
25:01: The issue is the revolution. And Adam Greenway is carrying water for the revolution.
25:07: And so he gets a pass on these things. And you'll see some others that get a pass as we go through this as well.
25:15: Here's the question. I have two. Adam Greenway says, hey, no, we're Orthodox. We don't have Marxist stuff at our seminary.
25:22: Enemies within the church is lying. Is CRT taught at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary? Well, let me just give you a few examples of places that, but we already saw the statement
25:31: Adam Greenway signed, the woke statement. So there's, we already know that that's out there. How about this? Dr. Jeffrey Bingham, Fall 2019
25:38: Systematic Theology class. Whiteness. Are there things about whiteness that can help in biblical interpretation?
25:46: Sure there are. But there are many things about whiteness that are used in history past to pervert the meaning of the biblical text, to pervert it greatly and in a disastrous way.
25:54: So I need brothers and sisters within the community of Christ who are not white that I can approach and say, brother, sister, how is it that my whiteness is working against my understanding the meaning of the biblical text?
26:08: And I think whiteness is spelled wrong here. It's witness. It's whiteness though.
26:14: That's, I heard the clip and I guess just didn't transcribe it correctly. But this is
26:20: Dr. Jeffrey Bingham, Fall 2019 Systematic Theology class. And you can go online.
26:25: You can probably even type that in and it'll come up. He says this. You have
26:30: Malcolm Yarnell. Malcolm Yarnell is a very prominent professor there. And he says a number of things.
26:36: Here's one of the things in the biblical recorder, June 15th, 2020. He says that this is about racism and there's so many things.
26:46: It was hard to even narrow down. What bothers me the most about this? What would we pick out to say this looks like CRT?
26:52: Let me read this for you. Among other errant ideas we have heard are the following. That the scripture does not command the reconciliation of all peoples.
27:00: That the word of God advances the system of slavery. And that oppressed peoples ought not seek freedom from wicked systems.
27:07: And by the way, I'm not buying this. I don't know who in the world is he talking about here. I've never met, maybe one person in my life who thought this.
27:16: In the Southern Baptist Convention, especially, everyone's going to say that they believe that the scripture commands reconciliation.
27:23: That the word of God does not advance a system of slavery. Now certainly the word of God regulates slavery in the
27:30: Old Testament. Certainly there's regulations in the New Testament. But to say that it advances, like it commands a system of slavery.
27:37: I mean, being slaved to Christ, I guess. And that oppressed peoples ought not seek freedom from wicked systems.
27:44: Who says that? That oppressed people should not seek freedom? I don't know of anyone who says that.
27:49: Not in a revolutionary violent way, perhaps. There's an orderly way to go about these things.
27:55: But I think everyone would say, yeah, if you're in a wicked system, then you should seek the freedom from it.
28:02: Now here's the thing. This is a straw man. And this is how he knocks it down. Further, we are disheartened to hear people explain the deaths of unarmed black men with arguments based in supposed white superiority.
28:13: Okay, what's an argument based in white superiority that explains the death of an unarmed black man?
28:18: This is about police shootings. Here it is. Suggesting that propensities to crime, misbehavior, and standardized test scores are to blame.
28:28: These specious claims remind us of old ideas that Southern Baptists more than once resolved to denounce.
28:33: Saying that you're a white supremacist, racist, something negative, right? One of these things, if what you say is, hey, there's reasons that in some of these police shootings, there's maybe a justifiable reason this individual was killed or wounded because they had some kind of a propensity to crime.
28:58: In other words, they were committing a crime. And these disparities that exist with test scores and these kinds of things can be attributed to that, well, these are the problems.
29:11: There's a lack of education and a lack of character. And most of the people who would make that argument would probably say that there's a fatherlessness problem.
29:20: There's a family breakdown problem. Well, here's Malcolm Yarnell coming out along with Ryan Putnam and Keith Whitfield and saying, you know what?
29:27: You know, that's white superiority right there. That's what you're saying. No, that's not what, and this is, if that's not what they're saying, this has to be the sloppiest thing ever.
29:38: But there's so many other things in this that just show me that there's some kind of a willingness to make some kind of a piece with critical race theory.
29:51: There's some kind of a syncretism going on here because to get to the point of calling someone some kind of a white supremacist or racist because simply they point out that there's a disparity when it comes to crime or test scores in a certain community or a certain region, that is, why would that be critical race theory?
30:09: Or I should say, how could that not be critical race theory that would cause them to do that? They have to make some kind of attachment.
30:15: They have to create some kind of a way of linking racism and white supremacy to someone claiming that these disparities are problems.
30:28: That alone gets them titled a racist or something. So you have to make a big jump there, and that's what critical race theory does.
30:37: It makes the big jump for you. It gives you license to call people names based on very sometimes tenuous links that you can somehow draw a line here or there.
30:49: Sometimes you can't even do that. Let's see here. There's more in this article, but I'm going to skip that.
30:56: Let's go to other things Malcolm Yarnell has said because I don't want to focus too much on that. There's so much more. He says, what if from now on every
31:02: Anglo male candidate for an SPC entity leader's role were to refuse appointment, of course, only as their conscience leads, until a more diverse leadership representative of our desire to reflect the redeem gathered around God's throne were installed?
31:13: So he's basically saying, you know, in order to force diversity, which is what Adam Greenway said he wants, right?
31:19: Ethnic diversity. We are going, we should do this. What if every Anglo male just said, you know, we're not going to be leaders anymore.
31:26: Now, you first Malcolm, right? Here is an, see, here's another thing he said. Let's get to that in a minute.
31:32: He says he agreed with Rachel Denhollander's exegesis of the story of David murdering
31:40: Uriah and having relationship with Bathsheba and saying that that was rape.
31:45: We did a whole podcast on that and I showed that that was not rape. It's even different Hebrew words used there. But Malcolm Yarnell insists that it is rape.
31:52: And this is, this is the pressure, the me too pressure is, is brought to bear on biblical interpretation.
32:00: You see Malcolm Yarnell going the same way as a Rachel Denhollander on that issue. You have him defending resolution nine.
32:07: He says that the, the work of the 2019 resolutions committee for the
32:14: SBC displayed the wisdom of Solomon in addressing some of the most difficult issues facing our churches.
32:19: That's resolution nine. He says if pagan books said things which are indeed true and are well accommodated to our faith, they should not be feared rather what they have said should be taken from them as from unjust possessors and converted to our use and quoting
32:32: Augustine and applying that to the critical race theory debate. Hey, we can take this stuff, can use it as analytical tools.
32:40: Here he is again, this is what he supporting some form of standpoint theory. Here's an example of what
32:46: I meant at SBC 2019 when I advocated that we strive to hear the female voice while all the male disciples were arguing about their roles of power and prestige.
32:53: This lone female disciple perceived what Jesus really needed. What Mary did was beautiful. So again, we need the female voice.
33:00: That's that's again, the standpoint theory coming out here again, he talks about essays by Peter Tai, a
33:10: SWBTS PhD, I guess, student and another student. And they wrote in this book, they compiled some essays written from a global theological perspective.
33:22: So this is Malcolm Yarnell. So do you think between the statement
33:29: Adam Greenway signed in the wake of George Floyd death, do you think between what Jeffrey Bingham said about needing these other perspectives, do you think everything
33:39: Malcolm Yarnell's put out there and this is just the tip of the iceberg? Do you think in addition to that?
33:45: How Southwestern Seminary sponsored the Caring Well initiative, and we've gone over that, too.
33:51: I actually write about it. If you go to my book, Christianity and Social Justice, Religions and Conflict, if I can find it here, if you if you if you have a copy of this book,
34:04: I actually have a whole section on it talking about the Caring Well initiative and showing that this is standpoint theory.
34:12: This is postmodernism and it is totally the Christianization of the Me Too movement.
34:18: It is denying innocent until proven guilty, at least on the church level.
34:24: It's terrible stuff once you get into the details of it and what they're actually saying. Well, Southwestern Seminary supporting this and sponsoring it.
34:33: And this is the ERLC initiative, Caring Well. So so that's
34:39: Southwestern, and and so for enemies within the church to have a to have some kind of a,
34:49: I guess, a narration where they're showing the seminary and saying, hey, there's Marxism, I don't
34:54: I don't know what I haven't seen it in a while. I think I have seen it before, but it was a while ago to have some narration saying social justice is somehow in play here would be accurate.
35:04: How would that not be accurate? These ideas that are being advocated, at least in part at Southwestern, and have not been retracted to my knowledge or apologized for, no repentance that I know of, these ideas are would trace back some of them to to Marxism.
35:21: So what's the problem here? Why why is this such a big deal if if if they have evidence for it?
35:29: Now, you also have circling the wagons here. You have Mark Wingfield.
35:36: Now, it says on his Facebook profile that he studied at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. So here is a former student,
35:43: I guess, at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, who posted on Baptist News Global that the
35:48: Conservative Baptist Network promotes conspiracy laden film to be shown at Mid -America Seminary's campus. That's the headline.
35:54: And what are the talking points from this? The talking points are, he quotes Ben Cole. Ben Cole says the school's decision to host an event this week that slanders our seminaries through outright lies, purposeful misrepresentations and politicized fearmongering threatens that decades long institutional fraternity.
36:10: This style of national socialist propaganda should be rejected by every Bible believing Southern Baptist. OK, so he's saying they're
36:15: Nazis, saying enemies within the church is Nazis. If the school persists in its determination to host this event,
36:21: Mid -America should be given the same exhibit space allocation at our annual meetings as we would give to the
36:27: Ku Klux Klan, the Watchtower Society or to Louis Farrakhan. OK, so the Ku Klux Klan and Mid -America would be on the same level.
36:34: That's the accusation here. Basically, we should shut them out, cancel them. They should not even be allowed a space at the annual meetings.
36:44: And he is, if they allow this to go forward and basically says that these are
36:51: Nazis, the enemies within the church, guys. And here's the interesting thing to me. I just want to point this out.
36:56: And this isn't to get jump down Ben Cole's throat or anything like that, you know, assuming he's sorry for this.
37:02: I don't know exactly. But Ben Cole used to work for Aaron Schock, I guess is the name.
37:11: And he was a, I guess, a congressman. But Ben Cole had to resign. And the reason Ben Cole had to resign was because of social media posts that Ben Cole made in 2013 at the end of the year where he said that he said, so apparently the closing of the
37:24: National Zoo has forced the animals to conduct their mating rituals on the street. And he takes a picture and I guess,
37:31: I don't know, I don't even see what's in the picture, but calling and then a hashtag gentrify today.
37:37: I think this is probably in Washington, D .C. That's where it says one of the hood rats on my street just got shot by another hood rat.
37:44: I was right that there I was right there when the gun was fired. So he says these things that are considered extremely offensive and racist.
37:53: I mean, you're calling people hood rats. You're saying they're animals. And he has to resign for this.
37:59: This is the same Ben Cole who was quoted in this article as saying that enemies within the church are Nazis and basically
38:06: Mid -America is like the Klan if they let this film shown. Tell me this. This is the thing
38:11: I wanted to point out. Tell me this. Is there a pass given? Think of Greenway again.
38:17: Greenway wants ethnic diversity, but then fires the people that are ethnically diverse and replaces or brings in white people.
38:23: Ben Cole is calling people Nazis and Klansmen. And yet he's the one that has said these things.
38:30: And he's included his take in this hit piece by a left leaning publication and a very left leaning writer.
38:40: So what why is that acceptable? Why is that OK? These are the people that are pointing the finger, have three fingers pointing back at them by their own standard.
38:51: And yet they just keep going on the attack, keep going on the attack. They want the conversation to stay there.
38:57: The attack is on enemies within the church. It's on Mid -America. And it's utter hypocrisy.
39:03: You get a pass if you're on the right side of the revolution. That's the takeaway from this. You get a pass. You don't have to abide by the same rules.
39:13: And one of the other thing I was going to note is that apparently there's an old history between Page Patterson and Ben Cole going back to at least 2008.
39:21: There's even court documents on this. And so there's an ax to grind there with Ben Cole.
39:26: And there's a tie to Southwestern there. And Ben Cole has, from the research that I did, the little bit
39:34: I did, he says very complimentary things about Adam Greenway. And he's worked in the archives there doing something.
39:41: And it seems like something to do with Page Patterson. He's very against Page Patterson. So, again, all three of these guys,
39:50: Ben Cole, Mark Wingfield, and then, of course,
39:55: Adam Greenway, all affiliated with Southwestern. Here are the talking points, more talking points in the article.
40:01: It just goes for personal attacks. It's Kerry Gordon is a COVID denier. He is accused of posting racist comments on social media.
40:10: Trevor Loudon is basically, you see this, you read this sentence about Trevor Loudon, and you don't think there's anything wrong with it.
40:16: But I guess in the left leaning mind, there is something wrong because he authored a book against Barack Obama and calling the people around a
40:25: Marxist. Judd Saul is, again, kind of a conspiracy -laden films, produced other conspiracy -laden films.
40:34: And Curtis Bowers, he previously wrote and directed two conspiracy -themed films. So it's all just casting derision, just attacking.
40:44: While quoting someone who has this past, Benjamin Cole, it's just you can't make this stuff up.
40:50: And then, of course, now that the wagons are circling even more, Pastor Steve Gaines, a former president of the
40:55: SBC, saying the SBC has only six seminaries. They all affirm the doctrine of the
41:00: Baptist faith message 2000 drafted by Adrian Rogers and his committee. So this is the only thing they have.
41:08: Hey, we got a statement of faith. We got to stay. That's what they've been saying through this whole thing. Hey, you're adopting ideas like standpoint theory that undermine revelation and objective truth.
41:16: You're adopting ideas that turn biblical justice on its head, that corrupt the gospel, that, you know, the list goes on and on, interfere with the natural hierarchies
41:26: God has created between genders, that squash reality and into this ideological mess where you just flatline everyone into oppressors or oppressed and you don't see them as made in the image of God.
41:42: And, you know, these accusations are made. But yet they always say the same thing. I know we got a statement of faith. We got a statement of faith.
41:48: OK, well, big deal. You know, do you follow it? That's the question. And that's always the unspoken assumption.
41:53: Now, Pastor Kerry Gordon, who is the producer and the narrator, the one who basically the force behind this film, reacted to this.
42:06: And I think this is I think this is an illustrative reaction. I think I want you all to look at this if you can watch it, if you're watching.
42:13: But I'll read it to you if you're listening. This is something that we need to think about. This is just boom.
42:18: He popped it off on his social media. This is his reaction. The power of a film with primary source documentation, eyewitness accounts, audio and video archive records, solid detective work with money trails, bank accounts, board meeting records, emails and whistleblowers providing proof at the highest levels of corrupt institutions, et cetera, and a growing audience who is hungry for the truth.
42:37: Is that when you get caught by the filmmakers and just respond with more lies and slanderings as opposed to humble repentance?
42:45: It drives even more people to watch the movie and review the evidence for themselves. I'd much prefer repentance.
42:51: But if they insist upon lashing out, let them lash out till their hard little hearts are content. I, you know,
42:59: I read that at first and I thought, oh, you know, he's he's kind of going a little hard here. And I didn't know what
43:04: I thought. And I read it again. I thought, no, that's exactly right. This this is the way to handle this, because he's he just cuts through all the onion layers, goes to the heart of it and said, look, the issue here, you're not repenting.
43:15: You've been called on the carpet for these ideas. We have the proof. I just showed you some proof. And you won't repent for those.
43:21: You won't acknowledge them. All you do is say that we're slandering you. Actually, it's the opposite. The left is engaging in projection.
43:29: Adam Greenway is engaging in projection. He's the one slandering. I briefly reached out and I'll just say this.
43:35: I very I did not have a long conversation. It was very short. But I reached out to the director,
43:41: Judd Saul, to get his comment on it, to see if, you know, there's any did anyone reach out to him?
43:47: Did he know about this? And what he told me was that neither he nor Mid -America
43:53: Seminary has been reached out to at all before any of this happened. No one told them of any errors in their film or their trailer, any of that.
44:01: It was just boom on social media. That makes you think that this really isn't about that.
44:07: This this could have been done in a private manner first, you'd think. And the SBC always people always claim that if you ever make a public statement against public error, that you should that that's wrong.
44:19: You should always you have to go to the person. It's unbiblical. It's in violation of Matthew 18. You got to go to the person privately first.
44:24: But you see here those rules are only apply to the conservatives. The left can do whatever they want.
44:33: They are allowed to, without going to the people involved, go right out there on social media.
44:40: And frankly, Adam Greenway is guilty of what he's accusing others of. He's guilty of slandering. He's saying calling them liars.
44:46: Where have they lied? He hasn't proven it. In fact, it's just the opposite. They have evidence. He's accusing them of slander, but he's the one slandering.
44:55: So he's not following the basic rules that are assumed in Southern Baptist entities that you're supposed to abide by.
45:02: He's engaging in projection. And Kerry Gordon calls him on it basically for this. And it says, you have a hard heart.
45:08: And I think that is the issue. There's a hard heart here, an unwillingness to be corrected. And this is over a lot of time and over years.
45:18: I mean, this film has been what made being made for three or four years now. I mean, it's this has been there's been a long time and there's been a lot of communication at high levels with Southwestern and other entities.
45:29: I mean, I even think of the Bobby Lopez situation. I haven't even mentioned that yet. But think of that situation.
45:35: Go look at Bobby Lopez. I did a whole interview with him after he left Southwestern because he was fired because he would not abide by their rule to get approval for sharing his own testimony because they didn't want him sharing it because it conflicted with the
45:48: ERLC's vision or at least what they wanted him to do. And he would say that he was delivered from homosexuality.
45:55: And it was something that you could be delivered from even at the level of attraction.
46:01: And he spoke against this whole same sex attraction orientation stuff and said there isn't there isn't this homosexual orientation.
46:08: And Bobby Lopez used to live in that. And he changed. He repented and he he has a wife.
46:16: He has kids. And he says, no, you don't don't believe that lie. That's that's Bobby Lopez. And Southwestern did not want him saying it.
46:24: And we have the recordings. You can go watch the interview that Bobby Lopez did on this channel even about that.
46:31: He was a professor at Southwestern. So I haven't even mentioned that, but that the whole LGBTQ issue as well,
46:37: Southwestern has been on the wrong side of that. Now, here's another thing Kerry Gordon just posted.
46:43: He goes, tell me again. It's Willy Wonka, right? Saying, tell me again about how you don't allow the heresy of critical race theory in your seminary.
46:49: And anyone who says differently is a racist. Yes, a hundred percent. This is the, this is the reaction you have.
46:55: He's calling them on the carpet for their hypocrisy. They call it. He's saying, look, there's this article that was posted.
47:00: It calls him a racist. And he's saying, yeah. And the only way you can call me a racist is if you employ critical race theory.
47:07: That's it. If you start employing critical race theory, then yeah, you can make me out to be a racist because you're, you're, you're basically engaging in this lie.
47:15: So he's, he's turning it around on them. And that is what I think we need to do a lot more of because we're sometimes
47:25: I don't know if it's too nice or what it is, but Christians have a hard time with that.
47:31: Often. I know I have a hard time with it. Sometimes being, being very direct and hears the truth it's, it's uncomfortable, but sometimes you have to do it.
47:41: So Greenway did not go to his brother first, breaking his own 11th commandment, even though he's reinforcing it as saying,
47:46: Hey, basically he kind of let the cat out of the bag in his statement. He said, look, you're mid America where Southwestern, you're not supposed to criticize another
47:54: Southern Baptist entity, right? We're part of the guild. You don't want to be kicked out of the guild. Do you? If you show this movie, you will be, that's what's actually going on here.
48:04: And, um, and their only moves is to try to, to defend their only shield is saying we have a statement of faith because they can't argue the merits that whenever you bring up some of the things
48:13: I just brought up, they, they just can't defend it. So this is what they have to do.
48:19: They have to be aggressive and they have to get enough, drum up enough support on Twitter and stuff to be like, yes, the momentum's with us.
48:26: And it's an artificial feeling. It's, it's Twitter guys. Um, his concern doesn't seem to be the
48:33: Southern Baptist convention, right? His concern doesn't seem to be the seminaries. It's as much as it is himself and his institution and his, his image, uh, and, and casting derision on, uh,
48:47: South, uh, or, um, mid America. Um, he posted it publicly first, but that gives it away.
48:53: Posting it publicly shows that it's, this isn't about mid America anymore. As much as it is like actually getting them to stop the movie.
49:02: It's about casting derision on them. It's about, uh, making clear where the lines are and that they're outside of the club.
49:11: The strategy is really to separate institutional enemies from those in the trenches and thereby exert control over the institutional enemies and discredit the foot soldiers.
49:20: So you have the foot soldiers in the trenches. You have Judd Saul, you have enemies within the church, in the trenches, getting all the information, putting it out there, making a movie, exposing, refuting, and, and what they're afraid of in these institutions though, is what about those that could be more on, on the right in our institutions who want to prevent us from doing what we want to do, our little revolution, they want to stop it, uh, if we can somehow, um, get, make them afraid enough, the people in the institutions that have some institutional power, make them afraid enough to distance themselves from the trench soldiers, you can disrupt their lines, you can disrupt their communication.
49:59: You can, you can get them to get upset at each other. I I've seen this by the way, over and over and over where you have people that are more on the conservative side, but they're, they're, they're weak.
50:09: I'm just going to say the conservative side for the most part. And I'm not saying this about mid America. If they stand strong on this, they will show that they're not weak.
50:16: They might be the first ones to really show that, uh, at the institutional level, like really, you know, tested and tried and they came through.
50:25: I mean, it's, it's very difficult. I mean, there might be some others, but it's, it's so rare. I'm just saying it is so rare.
50:30: Most of the people who want to tout themselves as the leaders of the anti -CRT faction, they are so afraid of being called names.
50:38: They are so afraid of having associations with them from others who are in the, in the trenches and actually getting, um, damaged from combat.
50:46: They don't want to be combat soldiers. They want to be armchair generals. And, um, and so this is to disrupt communication.
50:54: This is to, because look at the scenario. If what happens is, uh, mid America issues an apology or says, you know what?
51:00: We're not going to have enemies within the church come. What happens is, uh, they end up, um, it ends up making enemies within the church look bad.
51:10: Like, you know, they were the problem somehow and had deceived mid mid America. And then at the same time, it weakens mid
51:17: America because it shows that they can be bullied by a Twitter mob into submission. And, and that's, that's the goal of this.
51:25: It is bullying and it is, it is, uh, trying to exert control over institutional threats, people they view as institutional threats, and then, uh, disrupt any kind of cooperation between them and those in the trenches.
51:41: My, uh, what I anticipate is that more of this will happen in the next few days that I, I think that the wagons are already being circled, uh, unless it's called off by someone like Al Mohler, uh, who may even be behind this anyways.
51:54: I don't know. I don't have any evidence of that, but, um, a lot of these, these, uh, in past situations, like you think of the founders trailer coming out past situations, there is a circling of the wagons generally.
52:06: And it's like, they're all in a chat room strategizing. And I would assume that's probably going on, but unless one of them calls it off, then you're going to see the other seminaries start to, to do the same thing.
52:18: Other voices in the SBC with any kind of prominence are going to start to say the same thing and it will be to ostracize, uh, mid -America and, uh, and that's sad and CBN and try to discredit enemies within the church and tie, uh, tie that around the necks of these institutions to make them afraid that they don't want to be associated with something that would be lying or be,
52:40: Oh my goodness. Someone, Kerry Gordon's a racist. Oh my goodness. Trevor Loudon's a conspiracy theorist. We can't be associated with them.
52:46: That's the goal. That's the whole goal with all of this. Here's what I think is shifting though.
52:52: I think it's starting to shift. I think we're, we are on moving ground and this is encouraging to, I think many of you and myself,
53:00: I don't think it works as much as it used to. I think the elites in institutions still think it works.
53:06: They're still deathly afraid that their image is going to be marred, but I think something's already happened on the ground level.
53:13: I've seen this as I've gone across the country where people just don't care anymore, they don't care if you're called a racist, if you're called a
53:21: Christian nationalist, if you're called a sexist, if you're called a misogynist, if you're called a homophobic, if you're called transphobic, if you're called a neoconfederate, if you're called the list just goes on a
53:33: Nazi, uh, they, they just don't care anymore what kinds of names you're called because they've seen the, the boy crying wolf so many times and no one gets hurt.
53:46: It's there's no, Oh, that person's so dangerous over there. Look at them. Okay. What are they doing? What's so dangerous about it?
53:51: Well, they, they just are, they tweeted something. What did they tweet? And then you look at it and it's like, okay, that really, that's what we're all getting upset about.
53:59: And it doesn't work on the working class people. It does not work anymore. The people in the pews, it's not really working much anymore.
54:06: The institutions, it still works because it's fake. And I, I think that though, though it was working and it still works to some extent on, on, on the general, on, on somewhat in the general population here and there, but it's just, it's less and less and less and less, and especially as the years have gone on with the social justice movement and it's intensified people in the pews, there's just aren't buying it as much anymore.
54:30: And what this will do, I think, I think Carrie's right about this. It will create a big, a big, big amount of condemnation on Twitter, which is, it's almost meaningless guys.
54:42: When that happens on Twitter, you got to understand that it's, it's just, it's an echo chamber for the left.
54:48: So it'll create that. It'll create possibly some institutional security that they think,
54:55: Hey, look, this person's got my back and look, all of us elites, we, we reinforce each other, but on the actual pew level, the layman level, all it will do is drive people, whoever ends up seeing this, it'll drive controversy and it'll drive people to want to go see this movie that you're not supposed to see.
55:13: And I don't know that they counted on it. I don't know. Maybe they are trying to think through this and then maybe they'll reel it back in, but I think that's the effect of it.
55:20: And the more they up it, the more they go after this film, the more people are going to want to see it.
55:26: That's kind of how it works. So that's my prediction. I wanted to just cover that.
55:31: I don't do this kind of stuff as much. I used to do it a lot more. I've been focusing more,
55:36: I guess, lately on just more, I haven't been getting into the minutia of what's said on Twitter and, and, uh, you know, specific quotes from institutions or people, but it is important.
55:49: We sometimes do that and we have to know what we're dealing with. And I think, um, if you didn't know anything about Adam Greenway or Southwestern, and you saw this tweet, you might be tempted to believe that someone wonder,
55:59: Hey, are they being lied about? But if you know anything about what's actually been occurring in the
56:05: SBC and specifically at Southwestern, you won't ask that question, you'll know. And you'll know that this is exactly a bully tactic.
56:13: It is not a Christian thing to do. It is, um, uh, an exercise in projection and hypocrisy and people who have three fingers pointing back at them, trying to go on the offensive, and I hope
56:26: God just has mercy on them. I hope they do repent as Kerry Gordon said, I really do. And that they humble themselves because that's the thing that's missing.
56:34: There's just no humility. Um, look, if you say something wrong, if you say something dangerous, you just, you admit it first and then you confess it and you take people seriously when they point it out.
56:45: You don't just, uh, start pointing the finger at them and attacking them. Anyway, I hope that was helpful for you.
56:51: Uh, that is my assessment of what's going on right now, uh, with Adam Greenway and Southwestern and this anti, uh, mid -America sentiment, anti enemies within the church sentiment.
57:01: Um, I think though it's not going to work. I think it's not going to work overall. And that's my assessment. All right.
57:07: God bless more coming. In fact, uh, got Judd Saul booked the, uh, I talked to him briefly, like I said today, and I said,
57:14: Hey, why don't you come on, uh, talk on the conversations that matter podcast about your film and just tell us kind of what's going on.
57:20: And it looks like he's going to do it. So I look forward to that. And, um, if you have specific questions, you want me to ask
57:25: Judd, put them in the info section, uh, or not the, not the info section, the comment section, and I'll take a look at them before I talk to them.