Responding to a Native Speaks Video on MacArthur

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Imagine if I told you that I wasn't going I wasn't making a case for Star Wars being the best movie ever and Then I went on for a few minutes to talk about how superior the storyline of Star Wars is to any movie ever how great the

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Cinematography is and the special effects how they far surpass anything that any

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Director has achieved ever and how you know, it was just the coolest

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You know toys and everything about it was just superior to every other movie But and then I said, but I'm not making a case for Star Wars being the best movie ever

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What would you think about that? I think at the most generous you would think wow, that's really confusing

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I don't understand what you're talking about because you seem to be making a case for Star Wars being the best movie ever

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Even as you're saying you're not making that case. I had that feeling when I was watching this video

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This is a video from a YouTube channel called native speaks. I highly recommend that you watch it

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Let's go ahead and give it a thumbs up right here And these two brothers have offered to talk with me and I'm very excited about that I'm looking forward to it.

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I got about halfway through this video Maybe a little less than that And I wanted to just respond to this one piece what they're talking about here is

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John MacArthur is one of his articles that he's recently released The point where he's I think it was the first one where he's talking about how he's troubled that gospel preachers are

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In favor of reparations and things like that and I found this so interesting because Well, let's just play it and I'll respond to it and we can see where this goes.

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This is right around minute 13 I'm gonna pick up this wise who are demanding for there to be funds to be set up for white people to pay back black people for the sins of their

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Grandfathers, right? I just I don't I don't know those I haven't seen it. Yeah, that's not I don't know those people So that so here's the here's the thing.

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This is the same thing that Kyle J Howard did they mentioned him? Actually, then they said they don't know anybody asking for reparations

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And obviously I did a video where people were definitely asking for reparations But but look at where they go a mere minutes after seconds after saying this

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Let's listen to what they that is that is a perspective. I would suggest that that is largely not that is

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Completely not the perspective of the the faithful witness of brothers and sisters who sort of come from our tradition in a reform perspective

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But the idea of reparations, I'm just saying or the idea of restitution restitution

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Let's put it that way because because when people use the word reparations, it sounds like a curse word It comes with a whole lot of these.

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That's right They trying to say that I got to go work and pay back exactly my family their own slaves Why am

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I responsible right and that's what and that's what they would say That that is what people say and because that's what it is now now

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Here's the thing so I agree with with what they're about to say What what I mean just said there is that he uses the term restitution and reparations kind of synonymously

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And I can understand that I actually think that they are very close to synonyms reparations and restitution and biblical restitution is a very

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Important thing that we do not give enough respect in our law today There are very few examples that you can find in our law today in the

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United States or really anywhere that apply Biblical restitution and we really need to take a look at that because I do believe

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God is a righteous God God is a just God and he cares about justice. And so we should be applying biblical restitution if we want to be

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Reflecting God's law in the area of justice. So I actually agree with what they're about to say but but but let's just let's just hear them out a little bit the the fact that the matter is the the

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Reparations is just a synonym for restitution, right? If we want to get down to the brass facts of what the word me

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But I but I will say though is that reparations has come to mean something that is distinctly not biblical

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And so it's very and they're gonna talk about language in a minute, but but sometimes, you know Kind of the semantic range of a word changes over time and and it becomes worthless

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And so if we want to be understood We shouldn't just use words that we know have a lot of baggage if we want to be understood

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Because that's another thing a lot of people from the social justice side. So, well, you know, you're misrepresenting us You're not understanding us.

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You're you're not hearing us and I'm like, well, maybe that's because you're using language that means other things And so let's beans right and if we want to talk about restitution, the

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Bible is very clear about what? There the Bible is very clear about restitution, right that if somebody is defrauded

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Hey, you are repenting for them being defrauded than that then there should be restitution That should be that that that should be brought forth.

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Yes, I think that's very true And he's exactly right. The Bible is very clear about restitution crystal clear actually and actually so when

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I talk with KB and and I mean I do want to talk about the biblical case for restitution and what biblical restitution looks like because here's the thing that he just said

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It right there. This is why I stand against reparations by the way, I stand against reparations, of course because as he said if you if you are defrauded and Somebody who defrauded you is repenting of that and and or or is caught by the government or something like that Then they owe you restitution now that Situation the way we understand reparations today all the actors are dead

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Those who were stolen from are dead those who did the stealing are dead And so biblically the the the chance to make biblical restitution has passed everyone has passed away

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Nobody got away with their oppression. Nobody got away with anything because god is the final judge and he's a perfect righteous judge

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We would all agree with that But but biblically you cannot say okay. Well, um, you know

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There was an injustice 200 years ago. And so therefore we're going to fix it today Because that would be a further injustice that would be fixing an injustice within more injustice because I would be paying up for that there's no question about it, and I am a part african -american part native

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Latino part european. I would be paying for the sins of somebody else because here's the thing guys and I and And I I wonder if you've considered this because we'll talk we'll listen hear you out a little bit more

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But the government doesn't have any money of its own. The government is not an entity of its own It's made up of people and the only way it gets any revenues or any money are from people that are alive today and so when you say well not making the case for reparations, but uh,

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You know, there was some restitution that needs to be made. Well, who's who do you think is going to be making that restitution?

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People who had nothing to do with it white people black people brown people everyone who had nothing to do with the actual crime

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And so I I mean, I'm sure you've thought about that before but I don't know Exactly.

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Do you see that exactly? When one of the ways in which he was telling the lord that he has repented by is he said

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All of those who I have defrauded I have paid back, right? And I always give the the yes. Zacchaeus is a great example because Zacchaeus lived in an unjust society, right?

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And he knew that the that according to roman justice. He didn't have to give anything back There was nothing that he needed to do but he wanted to repent anyways

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And so what does Zacchaeus do he pays back what who he stole from fourfold? I believe it was and that is according to god's law.

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He did it according to god's law He looked at the law of god. He applied the general equity of the law of god

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Um, although he was probably doing it to the letter because he was in israelite So that's different but what he did was he went and said, okay,

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I know rome is unjust I know that I don't have to pay anything back according to roman justice But because I want to be a just believer and follower of jesus christ

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I'm gonna follow the law of god and that's what he did because he was the one who actually did the defrauding

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It wasn't Zacchaeus's ancestors from three four generations later It was him who did it and so he applied biblical law to the letter and made restitution for what he stole

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That's a perfect example of one example as if though like if somebody stole this flat screen tv And they lived down the street from us and we went down the street and knocked on their door and said hey

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You stole our television and the dude's like look i'm sorry, man. I repent you're you're right I should have never broke into your house.

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I should have never stole your tv Um, just please forgive me and we're like, yeah, we forgive you and then he's just like all right, bro

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And he got the tv in the back watching sports center because what I would say next is what can I have my television back?

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right Not not only that but you would actually be entitled to the television times the factor of three or four

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And so, uh, that's how biblical law works now You wouldn't have to take more. I mean you if he gave you the tv back and you're like, all right, it's squashed

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Then and then you know, that would be fine It would be squashed it'd be a totally just situation But according to biblical law if somebody steals your tv and then you know, they get caught

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Um, they would owe you the tv and then some that's what that's what justice is Or to me what you defrauded me of you can't just say

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I repent i'm sorry Yeah, and then and then and then that's supposed to be the way that that's that's it

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I mean even the restitution that the the payment for our sins was even put on jesus. We didn't escape our we didn't escape

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Our our punishment without somebody taking it right without punishment being put on somebody is yeah

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It has to be satisfied there there has to be a reckoning there has to be a rest That's what restorative justice is.

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So and i'm and and Yeah, he's absolutely. I think he's absolutely right our example of what perfect justice is what perfect restitution is

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I mean we owed god our lives for our sin And so the only reason that we get to live forever with the lord is because somebody paid that somebody that there was a perfectly

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Just situation there. That's exactly right. I'm not trying to make an argument for reparation 2018

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But you are though and that's the thing So so if you're not and I would take you at your word because what you say is every time you say that I think

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You say like three or four times in this in this section I'm, not making an argument for reparations, but then you instantly go and start making that argument

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And so, uh, if you're not making an argument for reparations, what are you making an argument for that's the question

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I think I and maybe you you'd explain in the second half of this video I I don't know just want to caution brothers and sisters who mock it.

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Yeah who rock who mocked the idea of reparations? Well, no, I do mock it and and here's why I mock it because I don't i'm not talking about biblical restitution

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Because biblical restitution i've said it very many times that we need to take that seriously we we don't take that seriously in the united states and we need to because Until we do god is not going to be pleased with our law right with our with our culture

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Uh, but um, I mock the idea of reparations as it's understood today and I say things like this

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Well, i'm, uh, 60 percent european 20 percent, uh, african -american and 20 percent latino

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So do I pay my does this does my 60 percent pay my 20 percent?

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Uh for being a slave and then my other 20 percent for stealing their land and how does that actually work? Do I get paid from the the fund or because it's all ridiculous

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This isn't biblical and so you can easily reduce it to absurdity. It's absolutely absurd as it's understood today

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And so if you're going to use the word reparations Then you have to be willing to own the fact that people misuse that word and it means something totally different than what you guys

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Seem to be promoting. However, I don't think it's really that different from what you guys seem to be promoting and i'll show you why um, or any conversation of restitution or even

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As we think about ways that there can be equity among people who've been left out of resource

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And they look at that as foolishness I mean the bible literally says in proverbs that the fool mocks reparations.

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Yeah Right, but it says that and it's defined biblically. It's not defined the way it's normally understood today

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So if you if you don't mean that if you don't mean making a payment to black people for this for slavery

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And so I would I guess be entitled to at least 20 percent of that payment I suppose um But but if you're not saying that what actually are you saying?

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But again, I think you are saying that because listen just listen Yeah The text yeah, it is the text but you can't just say that it's like when you say god so loves the world

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And it's like well, see i'm an arminian. It's like the same thing Uh, you can't just do that You have to actually define these words biblically let the context define things things like that Biblical restitution is a very specific thing as brother amin said earlier.

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I agree with that But we need to talk about that And we see in in in uh

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The gospels jesus is concerned about people being defrauded and that's really the bigger issue here if in ways that we can control

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Which is going to take a lot of prayer conversation community effort, but there are ways amen

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That's why we need to have conversations like this people from different perspectives having conversations of what the text says

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How do we apply the general equity today? He's right There's a lot of work that needs to be done in that area and i'm very happy and looking forward to Speaking with kb and amin about this because these are the conversations that need to happen on a higher level people above us because Um, you know, we need to see it's just not happening right now

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That conversation isn't happening in general. And so it needs to I agree with these brothers is in that we can control for us to repent it must include finding ways to empower those who've been kept out now

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I I don't understand why Why? Because here's the thing like I would say that if people have been kept out and they're they're oppressed whatever

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The solution to that is to stop oppressing them You know what? I mean? That's what you do.

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You say oh man, you know, I uh, I haven't been letting uh, White people into my uh into my group, uh, my economic development group

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So let me stop doing that and then that would be fine Now if you stole from so again, if you personally stole from somebody then you personally must make restitution.

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That is absolutely true But that's not what's being talked about here We're talking about people groups here that have been held down and people groups that have privilege and stuff like that And um, what is this empowerment?

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I I don't think that there needs to be empowerment There just needs to be an end to partiality. Stop it. Stop it And then you can empower yourself.

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I mean we can help you obviously, uh pastors are supposed to help their people Learn how to apply the the principles of god the moral law of god into their everyday lives how to work hard Absolutely pastors can do that whether they're black white whatever they can do that Where's this?

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Where's this? I don't I don't understand where this uh, this this uh, Idea that you have to help empower people you have to make it more equitable

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I don't see that that as a as a biblical mandate There's no mandate that says everything needs to be in equity In fact the the bible the biblical text says that there's going to be in inequalities in wealth and income and gifts

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Forever even in the eternal state. I think uh, there's some debate about that. But anyway again, how we do that on a uh, a policy level, um the

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Practicalities practicalities of that we can debate what I don't think we can debate is the principle right?

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We cannot scoff at the idea the other thing that if There's no historians on this show, but you do have people on this show who like studying history

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It's something that that our country's been involved with through Uh through many efforts, right?

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We saw we saw reparations paid out to to the japanese We saw the chinese we saw uh reparations paid out to remember.

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He's not making the argument for reparations Um, yeah, and so we we have done this before but the thing is was that just when we did it

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Was that just when we did it? That's the question because the government has no money of its own so any money it has to give out to whoever

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Was extracted from people was that just that's the questions we need to be asking because uh, you can't

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Solve an injustice with more injustice. It just doesn't work that's why I got all over matt chandler with his affirmative action pastor hiring because uh

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What you do if you're if you've been racist in your pastor hiring is you stop doing that you stop being racist

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You don't apply racism in the opposite way to fix it. You can't fix racism with more racism

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Um, but anyway to but remember he's not making the argument for reparations to slave owners who lost their

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Their property which was people at the time. We've we've seen this sort of thing happening. Was that just though kb

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That's the question that we need to ask we've done it before. Okay, granted You know granted but was that just and should we seek to do that justice again?

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I mean, that's the conversation global phenomenon around the uh, the conversation

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So all the point i'm making is let me be very clear Yeah, i'm not building a campaign on black people getting monthly checks from white coffers.

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All right All right, but you are though I'm, just kidding.

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I'm gonna trust you and believe that you're actually not making that case So what is the case you are making that's one question that i'd like to ask you because if black people gets payments from Anybody, uh from i'm sorry from the government it is coming out of white coffers

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As well as puerto rican coffers as well as asian coffers as well as all these other things So money will be stolen extracted from people who had nothing to do with the crime and given to people who had nothing to do with the crime and so, uh

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Yeah, you're not saying it only should come from whites. Okay, I get it but it's gonna come from whites, too I am making is that from our hearts principally principally

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The idea of restitution cannot be an allergy for us. Yeah, we can't

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Say that we we that's absolutely fair But again, I just have to emphasize it has to be focused on the scripture

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We can't just apply the principle any way we want because the scripture applies it very specifically for us and we can

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Look at that draw the general equity out of it and apply it today Um, so anyway, we understand what it means to repent if there is no

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Vision towards uh justice in Evening out the scales.

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Isn't that what biblical justice is right? It's doing what is fair or what is right now

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We need to spend lots of consideration lots of prayer lots of uh, um community time thinking through how we flesh that out but we want our hearts to at least be stirred and not repelled by Uh the mention of it because if someone even mentions it and I want us to continue before we move on I want to continue to talk about language.

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So I wanted I want us to talk about just the phrase social justice Which i've recently have had to dig deep into into wesleyan theology

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Yeah, and and use a different phrase to even be able to understand to be able to underscore the concept of social justice

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John wesley believed in what he called social holiness, right?

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Which is the exact concept of social justice, right for the believer, right?

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Now the world means a lot of other things when they say the social justice. Yes Right the world. Well, that's my whole point though When I when

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I criticize the use of the term because I actually agree with you social justice isn't necessarily a bad thing There is a biblical definition of these things that we can apply today that you know, justice applied to society

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Uh, that that would be great. I would love to do that. But the thing is Um, not only does the world use this in a twisted way, but very often christians who use

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I know you say you don't know me But but I think you do Very often christians use the term and then they explain what they mean by the term and it's basically the same thing

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As the world except they sprinkle a little jesus on top and that's not gonna cut it because um

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I know you don't like when when people are against the idea of social justice. You say that's well, it's biblical Yeah, that's true.

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It is but sometimes it isn't and that's what we want to talk about We want to talk about the bible and what's right and what's not but for the christian

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We are not running from phrases that we can find define either that we can find either defined in scripture or that are

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Explicitly in scripture right the idea of sure i'm okay with that But but again, we have to make sure we differentiate ourselves from the world and then just very often

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It's not done in fact, very often Like i've said it's very similar to what the world is saying with a little jesus sprinkled on top

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It doesn't work that rest restitution and reparation is in the bible, right?

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Let me just say one more time for the fourth time not saying that we need to gather with all our black nationalist friends

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Yeah, and start knocking on doors and say Pay up. Yeah, you're not saying that but what you seem to be saying and i'm not trying to put words in your mouth but you seem to be saying that the government should offer some kind of restitution for the crimes of the past against your ancestors and that is

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Functionally the same thing because the government is the one you're not You might maybe you and your buddies aren't going to go door -to -door and ask for some cash payments

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But the government is the government's going to go door -to -door and ask for cash payments and they do it through their

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Withholding and through all that stuff. That's how they do it Um, and so is that question is is that just and the answer is no

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Very clearly that's not what i'm saying. I'm just saying scoffing at it, but that's not what he's saying though Is not the right approach

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Yeah, scoffing at the idea that there have been injustices that have just went underneath the the the rug

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They've just been forgotten people. I could give you Thousands I could give you thousands not from memory, but I can give you thousands of examples from different resources of individuals

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Who have been defrauded and every single instance broke the heart of god.

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Yeah Yeah, he's right about that. There's no question about that. He's right about that We shouldn't scoff at the idea that sins of the past have had an effect on the way things stand today

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There's no question about that. I don't deny that i've never denied that that's very true And he's right that every one of those instances where someone was defrauded

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Breaks the heart of god and god has wrath and vengeance for that And so there's really two choices either the person who defrauded was covered by the blood of jesus and jesus paid for his sin

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Or that person pays for their own sin and god's wrath is unleashed on that person For that defrauding of the poor and god cares about that.

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There's no question about that None of that really has anything to do with reparations as we understand it today

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There could have been potentially restitution made in the past and it seems like that wasn't done I mean very clearly it wasn't done in many cases um

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But that doesn't mean that we can now visit the sins of the fathers onto the children The bible says something very specific about that and I think you brothers know that god was not okay with any of it

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And to have people who are still burdened by those, uh breaks

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Come to the table and say hey If it's in your power to make some of this, right, can you do it and have them be laughed at?

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It's not biblical. It's not it's not biblical. It's not loving the biblical heart. It's not loving your neighbor I don't really think that's how it's going down though So someone's just saying hey if someone like honestly

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I'd love to see an example of someone like humbly saying hey, you know If it's in your power to help me out, you know, my parents listen that and then they just get laughed at That's not how it is

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It's usually started off with a flamethrower and then the flamethrower comes back and that's how it is.

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Uh, so I don't know man It's not god's heart. Yeah, so I want you to respond. I mean, but I I do want to deal with some of this socialist

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Marxist or social justice i'm using uh, let's just stop there. This has been this video is long enough

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But but anyway, uh, i'll probably interact with a little bit more of this video This video is is about an hour long and i've only listened to about 25 30 minutes of it or so um, but anyway, i'm looking forward to a conversation with kb and amin because I think uh

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These videos where i'm interacting what they're saying are Only so helpful because he won't have a chance to respond unless he does a video about it

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And so i'm looking forward to having a conversation where we can kind of you know Chop this up a little bit talk, you know

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Talk about what the bible says about restitution and reparations if you want to use that word, that's fine What does the bible say about it?

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How can we draw the general equity of it out and apply it today to make restitution and to squash this once and for all

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Because I think the bible said something very clear about this and We can talk about it.