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Boom, pop, pow. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Point Taken Christian Podcast. Today we have Pastor Josiah Shipley, and then we have Robert. Robert, I can't remember your last name.
Bonds.
Bonds, that's it. My man.
I knew that.
Robert Bonds.
So, I don't know. I'm like on a first name basis with a lot of people here, and I'm just like, what's your last name?
We can call him Robert.
Most people do.
So, I'm not trying to call a particular person out. I will leave her nameless, but she's like, I watch you. She came up to me this morning at church, and she said, I watch you on the podcast like every week, and I cannot remember your name.
No, she didn't. You introduce yourself every week.
That's so awesome.
No, and then I didn't know that. And if she's watching, I didn't have the courage to tell her that I could not remember her name.
Let me tell you something. I'm gonna tell you what I do.
I'm so embarrassed.
This happens to me all the time.
I'm so bad with names.
I like, I'm straightforward now. I've just gotten to that point. I'm like, hey, how you doing? I forgot your name, but luckily I don't feel bad because I'm 80 sure you forgot mine.
Hey, that's a good, I'm gonna steal that.
When they hesitate, I'm like, excellent, I feel better. What's your name?
I just say, we'll do it two or three more times, and then we'll get it.
You just go ahead in front of the friends,.
And that's what happened two or three times.
I did a lot of things as a child.
I can't remember.
See, I can't use that excuse.
Right. Yeah.
I mean, you got punched in the face.
I still do.
In the head, yeah.
That's a present.
You're right.
Football as a 30. Your birthday's today.
Happy birthday.
Thank you.
I forgot about that.
It was technically yesterday, but.
34.
Oh, no, that is right, because I saw your sister on Friday, and she said it was tomorrow. I can remember. But yeah, happy birthday.
Yeah, of course.
I always tell my wife that it's the 16th.
I know, you're freaking messed up.
I changed the code in her phone, and she almost got locked out,.
Because it's my birthday.
Stop.
She almost got locked out. So when she typed it in, she goes, maybe it is his birthday. She goes to the side, quit playing. Did you change the code on my phone, or is your birthday really?
She has a one-month-old,.
And she's like, I don't know.
Like, she'll be on her phone at the insurance company. She goes, this is not the time to play Josiah. Is it the 16th or the 17th?
I need you to be serious right now.
I can't be serious if she says that sentence.
Oh, bless her heart. You have a very patient wife.
She has to be.
I would say, thank you,.
That seems like an insult.
She is pretty patient.
No, it's a compliment to you that she is so patient.
That's good. It's your fault that she's patient,.
I think is what she said. Yeah, you have made her a patient woman.
That's right.
Isn't that a Proverbs 31 thing?
Yeah, maybe.
I have helped sanctify her.
That's what you're saying?
I have been the tool in God's hand to sanctify my wife's patience.
That's much better.
She's understanding, and your prayers aren't hindered.
My prayers are not hindered. That's exactly right.
That's good.
Well, God bless Rachel. We love her.
She's pretty awesome.
So today, we are actually going to be doing TikTok reactions. Our producers, Dalton and Lowell, have picked out some awesome TikToks for us to react to. So we have not seen these, so we can have our genuine reactions.
So, are you going to be surprised?
I am already.
So I've heard that we have some wackadoos in this mix, is what I call them. So I'm really excited to see what's sad.
Last time we did this, it was a bunch of blasphemy. So let's see how this is.
There was actually one person, I think Lowell ended up picking, that it was in the group message that I sent, and I said, we need to do one of this girl's videos, because she's pretty nuts. But that one came through on my Shorts feed.
Oh, look at that.
And I was just like, oh yeah, we got to react to it. So I haven't seen the video, but I've seen some of her stuff before. She's pretty freaking nuts. So we'll have to see.
Recently, I did hear about a new translation out called the Gen Z Bible, where someone had taken the scriptures and translated it into Gen Z language. Now I'm going to read part of this. I do want to let you know, I would never dishonor God's word.
I have triple checked this to make sure this is exactly what Luke 1 communicates when the angel talks to Mary. Check this out. Mary was a pick me girl for God and was simping for him in prayer. When the angel Gabriel appeared to her and said, Ayo, you're a real one, and the top G is feeling you.
I don't know what they're saying.
But she thought his compliment was sus and gave him the side eye. So he said, baby girl, chill. God sent me to tell you, you've passed this vibe check. And low key, he wants you to have the main character.
You name him Jesus, and they will all say, he's him.
He's him.
She said.
I like that part.
How can this be, since I promised him my body count will always be zero.
Respectfully.
He said, this ain't about cuffing season. For the Holy Spirit will live rent free in you and your boy. Jesus will be a divine bro. Beside, your cousin Elizabeth is with child. She who is already older than a boomer and whose husband is way past beekeeping age.
So Mary said, bet. Gabriel left her on red and she let the Holy Spirit cook.
Gabriel left her on red.
So I saw one thing, like they don't say child. Is it child?
What is that?
Oh, child. I think that was like the seventies. I don't know how to even say it. You know, you remember the old black lady would be like, oh, child, stop.
Oh, okay. Cause I was like, I saw like child. And then I was like, did he say that? And it sounded like he actually said that. I don't know. I just, I didn't, I don't know Gen Z slang. We were talking about that earlier before we hit record.
It was comical in the way that like, that's how Gen Z speaks. But the fact that they use that to translate scripture is insulting.
Into the word, I agree.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's weird because I read Luke one this week.
Oh, did you?
Yes, I did.
Confirmation.
I read Luke one this week.
Well, half of what they were saying, I'm just like, I don't even know what that is.
Okay.
Sound a little sus, bro.
When it said, she was simping for God.
Right, I know what it sounds like.
I guess, okay. So like, that's a, yeah. Like when it's, I don't even know how to respond to that. I mean, that's pretty crazy.
I don't know what simping is.
Simping? I know what it means. I'll let Dalton say it. You get the Dalton mic.
Come on.
Yeah. No, no, no.
Grab the microphone. Give us your interpretation to try.
And speak. Go.
Okay, simping, trying to figure out the right wording for it, it's like, if you do something, like if you like it.
Give me a context.
Okay, so let's say a high school boy likes a girl, okay? And you go in and you're trying to do something nice, basically flirting with her. Yeah, that was my understanding. Yeah, and you're like, oh dude, why are you such a simp?
Because you're kind of like trying to just hang out with her all the time.
Is it slang for like simpleton?
I thought it was like sympathize.
Sympathize? Like.
Yeah, but it's flirting.
Especially flirting.
Just being kind.
Flirting.
So.
So in that context, what did they say?
God was flirting with her. Is that what we heard?
Mary was flirting with God.
Yeah, that's why I made that sound when I, because my understanding was it was a synonym for flirting. That's obviously blasphemous.
Right.
That's not funny. But I did like when they said, and you'll have a son.
And he's him.
I did like that part.
Left. Gabriel. Unread. I guess she didn't respond to him.
Oh, like unread?
Like in a written text message?
Yeah, I read the text message and she did, yeah.
A divine bro.
That one was kind of funny.
It's like bad taste, but kind of funny.
Cringy at most.
It is kind of like when Pastor Jeff has said before, you know, when you have the, especially in the nineties, the young youth pastor and like he'll like roll up a sleeve halfway so you can see his sleeve tattoo.
And he's like, you know, JC's up in the house. He's your bro. But he's also the sovereign king of the universe. He's returning to judge the living and the dead.
They call us brother, you know, and friend.
Right, yeah.
But he's also coming back to judge the living and the dead.
Yeah, very much so.
So, yeah, that wasn't my favorite translation.
No.
Because it wasn't a translation.
I didn't even know that was. Like, is that a real version? Yeah, I'm going to look that up. Like, not that I don't believe you, I don't want it to be true.
There's one that I've read. It's called Hawaiian Pigeon, but it's basically almost ebonics, almost just super modern slang. Like instead of saying Jesus on the side, we'll say, and Jesus and the boys went to town.
Like something like that.
But obviously for anyone who doesn't know, that is not a serious translation. A translation is something that takes the original Greek and Hebrew and translates it into modern day, not make it sound like what you want to say.
So, yeah, that was pretty humorous, but no, that would not be a Bible that would be read at this church.
So there's an actual website. It's genz .bible.
Of course there is.
Well, wouldn't there be?
I'm trying to click on, maybe it's just taken. Okay, let's go to.
Maybe you have to subscribe.
No, it just popping up a different. Exodus one. First one. So here's the deal.
Here's the deal.
These are the names of the children of Israel who made their way to Egypt. Each person along with their fam rolled with Jacob. Yo fam, check out these OG brothers. It's Ruben, Simon, Levi, and Judah.
At least it keeps their names.
Yo, it's Dan, Naphtali, Dad, or Gad, and Asher. So like all the people who came from Jacob's fam.
Did it say so like?
Yes, so comma, like comma, all the people who came from Jacob's fam.
So comma, like comma.
So like all the people who came from Jacob's fam were like 70 in total cause Joseph was already living it up in Jesus, you know. Oh my God.
This is.
Like this is, it's insulting.
Can I see one?
What are you going for?
John 20, 28.
Oh geez. This is actually kind of.
Should I read what it actually says?
John 20, 28, Jesus appears to Thomas. This is for real. Jesus appears to Thomas after he's been resurrected. And he says, peace be with you. And Thomas looks at him and worships him and says, my Lord and my God.
That's what Thomas said to Jesus. My Lord and my God.
We'll see.
Y 'all ready for this one? This is John chapter 20 from the Gen Z Bible. The other homies were like, yo, we saw the Lord, but he was like, nah, I need to see his hands and those nail marks and stick my finger in them and even put my hand in his side or I ain't gonna believe.
And like eight and comma, like comma, eight days later, his squad was all gathered together again, including Thomas, you know? And Jesus suddenly showed up even though the doors were totally closed. This is Ricky reading this crap.
And he was like, what's up guys? Peace out y 'all. And he said to Thomas, yo, come here and check this out. Feel my hands, put your finger and put your hand in my side. Don't doubt bro, just believe. And Thomas was like, yo, Jesus, you're my main homie, bro.
You're my Lord, my God, all in one. Jesus, so this is what the sovereign creator said. Jesus said to Thomas like, bro, I get why you believe because you saw me and all, but real blessings go to those who haven't seen me yet still believe.
I can't read any more of this. All right, I can't do any more of that. So, all right, yeah, what do we have to say about that? That's ridiculous. That is heretical and that is pathetic.
Well, it's the fact that, well, like you said, it's heretical, it's pathetic. I think it's stupid in the way that like, if this generation cannot even begin to comprehend like the ESV version of scripture, it's just like that is insulting to your intelligence and that's upsetting.
But I think this is more of like a comical, I would hope this would be.
I would hope so.
Yeah, well, I mean, if it's used in a comical, I mean, that's one thing.
If that's a Sunday morning, someone's preaching out of that.
Could you imagine if someone was quoting the scripture,.
Scripture, quote unquote?
No, no, like off of memory, like they memorized this version.
Yo, bro, chillax.
Well, what happened was. So this is Genesis one. In the very start, God made the sky and the earth. So basically at first the earth was a hot mess. It didn't have any structure or anything, just emptiness and darkness all around.
But then the spirit of God started doing its thing.
I can't help but like talk with expression.
Then God was like, yo, let there be light. And boom.
The boom, I don't mind. I don't mind the boom. It might have been loud. He might've created sound when he did that. That's okay.
Oh, and then verse four. And then God was like, yo, this light is lit.
This light is lit, bro.
This light is lit. And was it loud? Cause there was no one to hear it yet.
Oh, that was deep.
But yeah, otherwise, like if this is a real, if this was a real version someone was reading, I would be very concerned. Like as their Bible or whatever. I'd be very concerned. Cause it's like, to me, this is funny, but I would never take this as scripture.
Well, you know, it's like, we're saying the younger generation. We all, when people want God, when people want him to look like them, that's why you can walk into some churches and there's a picture of a pale Jesus with blonde hair.
I don't know any pale people who live in the Middle East.
Can you find me someone living in the Mediterranean, living in Israel, who has pale skin, is six foot four and blonde with blue eyes?
Probably not.
Probably not, right?
They might be in Albano and they definitely don't have blue eyes.
Probably where they're getting their frame of reference from.
Yeah, I just, I don't know. I think it's comical, but if that is your scripture, that is a big, you need to do some self-reflecting.
Or what would you do if your child came up to you and quoted that scripture and you have absolutely no idea what, it'd be like common core math. I cannot do common core math. I don't understand the box.
You can't do nine and 10?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I can't do regular math. I couldn't figure out common core math. Like some people have talked about that. I'm like, there's no way I'm gonna figure that out.
Well, there's a box and there's things that you add. And I just, I don't understand. I didn't do good in algebra anyway.
I did pretty good in algebra.
No, but like, yeah. But if my kid came up quoting this to me, I would probably smack them in the mouth.
Yeah, 100%.
Like, what the heck are you reading? Like, this is not scripture.
Well, it humanizes Jesus and the deity of God, you know, the bro. And the, you know.
Well, and it takes the respect out of it too. Like Pastor Josiah said, like you were talking about the all sovereign God of the universe and you're calling him, like your bro, like there's that one song.
I don't know if it was like in the 70s or 80s or like whatever time period. But it was like, Jesus is my friend. Jesus is a friend of mine or whatever. And I'm like, I just don't like the, I don't like being like, Jesus is my friend.
Like, I understand that Jesus is my friend. He is the son of God. He is like all sovereign, whatever. But I'm like, but like you said, they take it to a point of where it's like, hey buddy, you know, like, hey Jesus, even though he was friends with his disciples, like he deserves respect.
It can be taken too far.
That's what you're saying.
Yeah, and it's like, he's not just like some buddy buddy that you're, you know, hanging out with and like having a good time with. Like, no, he's the sovereign God.
Yeah, I mean, we even put boundaries on those with their own children. Like Robert's kids, my kids, your kid, like they can be our friend in the sense that we are friendly.
Right, but we're not friends.
But at the end of the day, all right, the difference between me and Ava is nowhere near the difference between me and God. So there has to be a level of otherness. He's him. Yeah, he's him, yeah. All right, very good.
Number one, done. All right, if that was the worst one we have to do, we're going to be okay today.
No, I think there's.
Lola's smiling. Progressively gets worse, yeah.
All right, video number two coming up in five, four, three, two, one.
No, you did it.
Why was Hitler wrong?
I mean, you can write a whole essay about that.
Well, tell me one sentence as to why Hitler was objectively wrong.
To me? I mean, to some, he was right.
Of course he was. So there's something above you and above Hitler that we're comparing right to. What is that something?
Morality.
Where do we get that from?
How you come up, where you're from, your parents, your culture. I mean, the place you live.
I mean, a lot of different things.
So are some moralities better or right, more right than wrong than other moralities?
I would say no, because it just comes down to you personally.
Okay, so the Taliban believes it's okay to rape eight-year-old boys called T-boys. Are they wrong?
To me, yes, they are wrong, but to themselves, they think it's right.
Are they objectively wrong?
Okay, what is an objective? What is the objective?
Well, hold on, objectively. Looking outside. According to what? Right and wrong.
That comes down to me. And to me, they're wrong, but to them, they're right.
Wow. Wow.
Wow.
You ever meet someone so stupid, they make you squint?
Yes. I saw one of those guys in the mirror last week.
No, this guy, it's like, oh, honey.
Have you heard me yet?
You know what? I have actually had that exact conversation several, several times, I promise. I promise, several times.
Oh, the morality argument?
Yeah, it's sad. Like, when you press people in the right way, sometimes they'll recognize. The book of Proverbs says, do not answer a fool according to his folly. And then the next verse says, but answer a fool according to his folly.
Right, right.
So the book of Proverbs says, do not answer a fool according to his folly, but answer a fool according to his folly. I used to think like, but now I understand what it means. Don't answer a fool according to his folly.
In other words, he's screaming and yelling, so you scream and yell back. You're answering him according to his folly. But you answer a fool according to his folly.
His logic.
By holding up a mirror and letting him see how ridiculous he looks. Not in a mean way. That exact thing I've experienced many times. And sometimes I'll even have, it's happened several times, especially with some ladies, they'll start to tear up because they know their position is untenable.
Mm-hmm.
You know, in other words, if you press it and you say, okay, I understand what you're saying. You would say they're wrong. They would say they're right. How do we make laws? Do you get to be the one to decide?
Or them?
She started tearing up. I'm like, right. This is why you're tearing up, this is what I told her. Because you know I'm right. If there's not a standard outside of ourselves, whoever's the strongest gets to make the laws.
And that's a crappy world to live in. That's what's got us to the point we're at in almost every nation on the planet.
So that's a terrible way to live. But if there's something beyond us that gets to determine what's right and wrong, then we all have something we have to answer to. That's the reality of it.
Well, that's what they try to say. It's like, oh, morality is subjective. It's like, no, it's not. It is objective. Like you have right is right and right, or wrong is wrong. Like, so it has to be right all the time, or wrong all the time.
It can't be right sometimes, or wrong sometimes. It has to be all the time.
You have experienced something like that, moral relativity?
Oh, every day. You know, being in the 12-step program, the whole self-care, self-thought, self, you know, the guy was just, I'm the one who gets to decide what's right is right and wrong is wrong.
Well, to me, I don't think it's wrong, but to them, they might think it's right. And it's like, you think raping at your old boys is right?
And they would say no, but to them, it's right.
But that's okay, but it's like, but that's okay.
So, this is normally the example I use to help someone see the light, and sometimes they're not willing to. But normally, this is the one I said, okay, I understand all that. But let's say, I won't normally use something extreme as rape, but let's say, let's say it was your son who was mugged and stuff was stolen from him, and the dude's in the courtroom, and it's a judge there.
Are you gonna press charges? Because if so, you are imposing your morality on him. And she was like, I guess you're right, I am. I said, okay. Now, you started this conversation by saying I'm imposing my morality.
And what I'm trying to say to you is I'm not imposing my morality. I'm declaring to you it is a morality above all of us, even me, whether you want to admit it or not. You're the one who's trying to impose.
So, yeah. All honest people, including atheists, will admit that's an untenable position. Now, they might go with the majority argument, and the majority gets to make up their morality. The problem with that is the, the problem with using anything other than a non-human standard, if you use the majority argument, then you would have been pro-slavery in the 1800s.
If you use the law, the legal argument, I think there are some laws in this country right now that are horrible, including previously. You would have been for or against those based on whatever the current law was.
Well, and even that guy said, like with the culture, he's like, well, it depends on your culture and your parents and how you were raised and all of this stuff. And it's like, I can see what he means culturally.
Because like with our culture now, not everyone is like this, and thank God for that. But like the culture now, oh, it's okay for children under the age of 18 to mutilate their bodies and cut off their sexual organs in order for them to identify as another gender so they won't commit suicide.
Well, I mean, even if you took it to, we in America, men, we think it's just unfathomable that we would have to kill somebody to protect our families in other parts of the world. Like that's, that happens every day.
But it's based on the culture. And so people's ideals and moralities change based on that instead of it just being objective, like we talked about. Like in scripture, it talks about corporal punishment, which I'm for.
Some people might not like that. I don't care. You can comment in the comment section.
Beat your children.
Disciplining your children. And like other things like not gentle parenting and like all these things that people have traumas on. It's all subjective to what they feel. It's all about feelings. This is how I feel.
And like, I don't freaking care. I really don't.
Well, we have to filter our feelings through the word of God, no matter like what it is.
Right, well, and that's my point is that's where morality comes from. It comes from God, the creator of all things. It doesn't come from how we feel and what we think is right. Like I think based on what scripture says, if you take a life, your life gets taken.
And you forfeit the right to your life. It talks about like punishments for rape. It talks about punishments for all these things. I'm like, if we just did what the Bible said, like we could save a ton of money on these inmates on death row.
Like just take them out, back stone them. Like you don't have to pay any money. Just saying.
There is a reality.
That's not what people like.
It's not nice.
You know, there's a reality to the way God sets up the justice system. Slavery, you know, it's one of my favorite examples. I hear atheists all the time. I heard Bill Maher saying it the other day that the Bible does not forbid slavery.
Exodus 21, 16 says, I don't know how many times I've quoted this on this podcast.
I don't know, it's bad.
Exodus 21, 16. Anyone who kidnaps a man, buys him or sells him shall be put to death. So that's the tribal leader in Africa who took his dude to the coast. That's the Spaniard on the ship that brought him to the Caribbean.
That's the dude at the auction site in Georgia. And that's the plantation owner. Like all put to death. That would have ended the transatlantic slave trade in one day.
So those are, I feel like Mike now. Now I'm just moving my face here every single time I go.
See, like that, see?
How would you, all right, so that's what we're supposed to follow. But God says I'll have mercy on whom I have mercy.
Compassion on whom I have compassion.
That's right. So he gets to decide in the long run whether that life's taken. Or if you get caught, if I get caught, I get stoned to death.
You know what I mean?
In the Israeli community, he set up, those were his punishment systems. And he set those up that way. He had differing, for example, where we get the term manslaughter, when there was an accidental murder, he had cities of refuge for them to run to.
Now, God did not punish the Assyrians for having the exact justice system that he set up in the Israelite community because he set that up for them. What I'm saying is if we modeled our justice system more on the justice system God had put in place, we would see a lot better results.
And there's still some remnants of that. I mean, some of our laws on the books are still based from what we would call Judeo-Christian values. Ever since the flood, he said, if you take a man's life, your life shall be taken by a man.
That's how he set it up.
You think of, I was actually reading that scripture last night, and I just thought about all the abortions. And I'm like, the doctors, the mothers of these babies, and the fathers of these babies who might have paid for the abortion, or encouragement and stuff.
And I'm like, man, that is a lot of blood on these people.
That's why I'm so, like when I read the punishments for breaking God's law, the only reason I'm overwhelmed with amazing grace, how sweet the sound, is because I recognize what justice calls for. If you don't first recognize what justice calls for, there's nothing to praise about mercy and grace.
I said this a few weeks ago, I was at the gym, and I was telling somebody the gospel, and I ended by saying, isn't God's grace and mercy so wonderful? And his answer to me was, not really. That implies I have something I need to repent of.
Who is he? He said, who is he to tell me what to do?
Okay, well, you don't get it.
No, but you know what, at least he was honest,.
And that what you're saying when you say God is so gracious and merciful is, that I am undeserving of it, and I am deserving of justice.
For sure. Yeah, that's a good point, because it's like until you understand that you need a savior, and that you need that mercy and grace, and like what you said, it's like you don't understand what you have.
You don't understand the gift that you've been given.
Not even close.
No, so no, that was a good word, huh? Hope that God has his heart open.
LG.
There are two ways that God enlightens your mind, because there are two kinds of light in your mind. There is the light of the world, and then the light of heaven. Our inner self sees and understands things by heaven's light, but our outer self sees and understands things by worldly light.
Here's how it works. You use your rational mind to sort through spiritual teachings. You try to figure out which ones seem credible, which seem like they could be true, which ones do I want to kind of live by, but it's only when you've got those in your mind, and then with your inner self, you look through the light of heaven.
When that light comes in, then you can perceive, you can tell deep down, this is that truth that I've been looking for, and that process is between you and God.
So is that in, when he's saying like that process is between you and God, is that like God revealing something to you through the Holy Spirit? Is that what he's trying to get at? Like when you finally click like scripture, and you're like, oh, that's what I get, or God's trying to teach you a particular lesson in your life, like to be more patient, and you're like, I don't know.
I think the Secrets of Heaven is the book that he was reading. I think I saw it at the top, and I was like, oh, okay, that's what that was, but.
If that's what he was describing, that would be fine. I don't think that's what he was describing.
Okay, that's why I was trying to better understand, like I don't know what he was talking about.
What you just described is what the Bible calls enlightenment.
But that's not what he said. He said that your worldly light, and your, what do you call it? Your spiritual light.
Heavenly light.
And when your inner being sheds light on that, God reveals to you what's true. But it's not your inner being that sheds light on that, it's the Holy Spirit.
Through his words. The enlightenment. Sure. Yeah.
So you know, the Bible says, 2 Timothy 3, 16 and 17, all scripture is breathed out by God, and is profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
So all that Anna, Josiah, and Robert need to be equipped for every good work is the teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training righteousness that comes from all scripture.
The word of God.
That's what we need. So whatever he's talking about, your inner being reveals this light and this light, no, no, the Bible is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Pastor Jeff, shed some light, if you will, on that passage years ago, and I've never forgotten it.
The word of God, it says, Psalm 119, is a lamp unto my feet, which means it shows me where I'm at, and what I'm standing in.
And a light.
A light unto my path shows me where I'm going. Isn't that good? He's right. It's a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 19, one of my favorite chapters, if you want to think of it that way, in the Bible, says the scriptures, the law of God, are able to make the fool wise.
To make the simple wise. To make the eyes light up. It makes foolish people like me wise. The Bible can do that. So, I don't know what he's talking about inner being, and inner light, it's the word of God.
That's what does it.
But you don't think he's referring to the word of God when he's saying that?
If he is, that's fine. I don't know why he's calling it.
Light of heaven, world of light.
It's really cryptic.
If that's what he meant, sure. But when he said, that's between you and God.
Well, kind of. It's between God and his whole church. We all have the same scripture that we're reading. But there's.
It's your personal relationship.
Of course, it's your personal relationship. I guess, if he means by that, that the Holy Spirit personally illuminates part of his word to you, I'm game with that. I've seen that, I've tasted that, I've felt that.
I don't think that's what he's saying either.
Well, if that's not what he's saying, unfortunately.
Right, well, and so I'm looking up the book that I think, it didn't specify the author did it. In that video, it was just the title.
It said the title, Secrets of Heaven.
Secrets of Heaven. So, I looked it up. I don't know if this is the right author because I saw like a different author and stuff. So, Secrets of Heaven, Mystery Teachings of the Angels. And so, it's.
It's getting weird.
Sounds like a wacky new book.
It's getting worse.
You're not Clay.
We were trying to meet it halfway.
It's getting worse. From the depth.
Because that book was that thick.
Yeah, it was a pretty honking read. It says, from the depths of mystery come the secrets of heaven. They have come to take you deeper into the experience of mystery and purpose that surrounds your presence in the world.
Here the angelic assembly seeks to share with you what has long been forgotten in the world. Those truths that once guided the prophets, poets, messengers, and mystics throughout ages. Here the ancient memory and awareness that dwelt within you can be rekindled, revealing your greater gifts and higher purpose in life.
The secrets of heaven hold the power to unlock these gifts deep at the heart of humanity. With these gifts, there is new hope for the world. Heaven asks you to receive its secrets.
For the low price of $99, I believe, in this book.
Each secret is a window into the greater reality. Each secret is an opportunity to peer through the looking glass and see ourselves as we were seen from above. Now we are looking through the eyes of heaven to see ourselves, others, in the world as never before.
And the author of this one is Marshall Vane Summers.
Ephesians 1, it'll tell you how God sees you. It's pretty good.
So, yeah, like after reading that, I'm like, okay, this is kind of wacky.
Any credit we were trying to give,.
That you guys quickly joined the link.
That's why I was like, what is the book that he's reading? Because at first, I thought he was reading like from the book and he's like talking about.
Well, I thought he was reading from the Bible.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, because it looks like a thick book.
But then I noticed he was like reading like this and like staring at you at the video and got the book open.
Well, and I was like, it has a picture on the front. And usually, Bibles don't have that unless you have like a specific cover for it. And so I was looking at that, and I'm like, that looks like a legit.
So I just want to do some more. I'm glad we ended up doing some more research into that.
So that was a wacky, wacky. All right, well, okay. We tried. It's all right.
We tried.
It's okay.
Just a fight, but.
At you from all of this, everything you have renounced must go in Jesus' name. On three, all must leave her now in Jesus' name.
One, two.
I'm just laughing at you.
It wasn't the one I expected it to be.
Hallelujah. Is she okay?
I don't know. Yes, she is now. Spirit of witchcraft.
I detach you from all of that now. I break every curse of witchcraft. Spirit of addiction. All must leave him now.
He looks like he's addicted.
In Jesus' name.
That was good.
Thank you, Lord. We're free now.
Okay, so this was the same lady that I sent in the group message.
I did not enjoy watching that.
So her YouTube name, or her channel, is under Apostle Catherine Crick. Apostle Catherine Crick. Yes, she considers herself an apostle. So I found that to be interesting.
Bible.
Please.
Is it okay?
Yeah, no, you don't ever ask.
You don't have to ask.
But isn't it when, like, there's scripture in the New Testament talking about how there are apostles to carry out the miracles of God, but people interpret that as, like, anybody can be an apostle and carry that out instead of, like, the 12 apostles versus all of us disciples that...
Yeah, so, is that the verse you're gonna read?
Okay, all right. Revelation chapter 21, verse 14. We're talking about new heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem. Talking about the eternal state. You ready? And the wall of the city had 12 foundation stones, and on them were the 12 names of the 12 apostles of the land.
Whoa.
All right, now.
Let's...
12.
Is that different from the 12 tribes?
Yes, the 12 tribes are written on the city's... On the city's measuring walls.
I know that God likes his numbers, 40s and 12s and 7s and 3s and, like, all that stuff, so I was just making sure that was differentiated between the two.
It was.
So the 12 apostles.
Yeah, so, here we go. By the way...
Are you done with that?
The Bible?
Yes, so, look, and I understand that Judas was removed, so Paul stepped in, and we had Matthias for a little placeholder until Paul came in a few years later.
But, if I may, whenever someone calls themselves apostle today, now, I know not all of them mean it this way. In the sense that the word apostle means messenger, well, then we're all apostles. But in the sense of the title, apostle, I have a real problem with someone calling themselves an apostle.
I would like to know, if there are only 12 names of the apostles on these foundations, which one did you scratch off to write your name on there? Did you remove John or Peter, maybe Matthew? Who got booted off for you to come on?
And when someone says, well, Josiah, they don't mean it like that. Well, they should, because it's 12 apostles, and he chose all 12 of them. You know, it's funny, when they chose Matthias, M-A-T-T-I-S, Matthias?
I don't know how to say his name, I guess, as the replacement for Judas until Paul came. Do you remember the qualifications they had? He had to have been walking with them from the beginning. Been a part of Jesus since the baptism, and seen him resurrected.
If you can find me someone today that has those three qualifications, sure, we can have a discussion. But since that's impossible.
It's a unicorn.
It's a unicorn. I have seen that firsthand, slaying the spirit. Now listen, guys.
Slaying the spirit.
Slaying in the spirit.
Slaying in the spirit, I apologize.
Oh, slaying in the spirit, no, you're okay.
The Holy Spirit is a person of the Godhead and is a powerful worker. He is the author of the Holy Scriptures. He distributes gifts to the church for the purpose of growing the church as he wills and whenever he wants.
Romans 12, First Corinthians 12. It is amazing to me that we often have people who are millionaires, who have people follow up during their services, but none of these supposed healings or slaying the spirits are things that can be evidentially proven.
It's like, oh, I'm thinking of somebody who has a headache this morning. It's never somebody who doesn't have a leg and now has a leg. And I'm gonna go a step further. Isn't it amazing that it was mostly churches like those that closed down during COVID?
Could someone explain that to me?
I was actually talking about that with Lowell earlier.
So, rehab number 67 that I went to.
Yes, sir.
It was, whatever it was, Assembly of God, whatever it was.
Sure.
The guy was up there and there was worship music playing and he was like, anybody who needs healing from,.
Whatever it was. The spirit of addiction.
The spirit of addiction. I think it was tobacco addiction because they had found a couple of vapes and you weren't supposed to have vapes or whatever. But there were like 14 people and I went up there and was standing there and the guy put his hand on my head and there were two guys behind me and he was pushing and they were pulling and I didn't, I want it to be real.
And it just, it didn't happen for me that way. But I have seen somebody fall out in the spirit, get so excited and I think that's different than Bonnie Hinn.
Benny Hinn.
Well, no, she was Bonnie.
Oh. Yeah.
You know.
That's funny.
There are many well-intending, don't let this be a poking fun at charismatics. There are many charismatic Assemblies of God, Pentecostal Christians who are more godly than me. And if the whole jewels in your crown thing really was based on the amount of good work she did, I would have far more jewels in the crown than I ever will.
However, guys, we have to be honest with ourselves. Almost, whenever we have somebody selling God's miraculous works and then for the price of $39 .99 we'll sell you a book and teach you how to do it.
I have one of them in my office.
Do you?
Did you pay the $39 .99?
Wasn't it from one of our old members?
One of our old members went to a
Prosperity Gospel Church?
A charismatic style church very close to here. And on her first Wednesday night Bible study, if we want to use that term, they had all the new people, there were five new people. So they had pods of people surround all five of them and lay their hands on them and prayed over them and awaited for them to fall out and rise up speaking in tongues to know that they would be saved.
Because they believe that speaking in tongues is the sign of salvation and by speaking in tongues, they only interpret that as angelic utterances, non-human languages. So they're like pushing her down.
And she hears like someone else fall down, get up and say blabbity blue and they all praise, hallelujah, amen. And she's the last one and like nothing's happening. So she's like, I just wanted them to get away from me.
So I just fell down and got up and just made up something and they all started praising God because I was a Christian now. That's not the example we have from the Bible, guys. Now listen, God can do amazing things.
Let's let God do them. We don't have to dress it up. We don't have to make it fancier. Let's let God do them and we don't have to do anything else. And by the way, one more thing. Spiritual darkness, spiritual warfare is a legitimate thing.
Listen, there's no demon of addiction. It's is no, there's no.
But they say spirit.
Well, same thing, demons are spiritual beings. I mean, it's the same thing.
So I found that interesting.
Now listen, don't misunderstand me. There are spiritual darkness in heavenly places, Prince powers of the air. I understand all that stuff. We don't wrestle against flesh and blood. I understand all that.
But sometimes we like to use things like that as an excuse for our own sin. So we'll say.
That a demon is possessing me.
Yes, remember Bugs Bunny, the angel and the demon and the demon makes him do it. Remember they're on the shoulder, all that stuff. Well, that's not how it works. The Bible says for the heart is desperately wicked and incurable.
And maybe the most powerful verse in the Bible for me on this. And are you gonna accuse me of talking too much if I say this?
Okay, it's Ephesians chapter two. It says,. And you were dead in your trespasses and your sins. And when she once walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler who exercises authority over the lower heavens, all of us.
It's not that Satan had you on a leash. You did whatever you wanted. And what you wanted was directly in line with the Prince and the power of the air.
So do you believe in oppression, possession, all of these kind of.
Of course.
Like manna.
What you're talking about.
Well, I mean.
But it doesn't look like that.
It doesn't look like that.
I don't think it looks like that.
I think it looks like me in addiction, not wanting to do the thing that I'm about to do and doing it anyway.
Well, it's like Paul talks about in the New Testament. It's like, why do I do the things that I know I shouldn't be doing, but I don't wanna do the things that I know I should be doing.
Or not be doing.
Exactly. What I'm saying is, I think what we're all saying is, that doesn't mean that person is possessed by a demon.
Right. Well, and the reason why there are, we talked about this on a previous episode Dr. Dana was on.
That's right. I do.
And so it was the demon possession. It's like, why do we see that so much in the Bible times? And we don't really see, like, you know, we see stuff like this. But why do we see so much of that during the Bible times?
And I think you said it was because God wanted Jesus to be able to perform these miracles to let people know that he is Lord.
Yeah, just to rehash that answer quickly. How many demonic possessions do you see in the book of Isaiah?
You don't.
I haven't found one anyway.
What about Malachi?
I hadn't found them until Jesus came on the scene.
Now you have a little bit of, like, God, and please note the sovereignty, sending a tormenting spirit to King Saul.
Very little. Now, after Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, do you notice the steep drop-off? Yeah, there's some in Acts. Steep drop-off.
But the ones in Acts were done by the apostles.
That's right. What I'm getting at is you have three pastoral epistles with no mention of casting out demons and no instructions on how to do that. You have nothing in the latter. It's literally, if you took out Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John you're probably taking away 95 of demonic possession.
My theory behind that would be there are a limited number of demons on planet Earth. They are not omnipresent. They can't be everywhere at once. They're not omniscient. They're not all-knowing. And, sorry, I just thought back to the Santa episode.
Only God, no matter what else you tell you, whatever, only God is omniscient, all-powerful, all-knowing. Not Satan, not demonic. So, for three and a half years, the dark powers of this world were concentrated in one area, 20 square miles, because that is where they needed to stop, or at least try to stop, the plan of God from happening.
That would be from the Son of God having the death nail in death. So, there was a concentration and an explosion of demonic activity in and around Jerusalem, Galilee, Nazareth, so on and so forth, that then distributes back across the planet after the deed is done.
Now, that's my theory. I'm just supposing it's spread out in Genesis, so you don't see it that often. It's spread out in Exodus and Leviticus and Numbers when Jesus comes on the scene, there's only a limited amount of demons.
So, they leave Argentina, they leave Canada, they leave what would later be called Tennessee, and they all, or most of them, are coincided right there to try to stop. And, you know, I think there is some merit for this.
You know, if Michael is trying to bring a message to Daniel and we have demonic powers trying to stop him in the Book of Daniel, we have a movement to try to stop the work of God from coming. But, at the end of the day, they all bow to Jesus, not just in the end, right now.
I mean, one of the most beautiful comments of God's sovereignty in the entire Bible is when Jesus, without even speaking, walks into the presence of a bunch of demons possessing some guys that are cutting themselves, and they beg and say, we thought we had more time.
Please don't take us to the pit before the time. In other words, we know we're going there.
Could you imagine that day of pigs jumping off the cliff?
Oh, my goodness.
It's like, what the flipping heck is going on?
It's like clouds overhead, and it's really dark. It's kind of drizzling.
I wanted to go back to the thing that you were saying about how you experienced something like this with like one of the rehabs that you went to, was like, you wanted to be healed from whatever you were going through, and I think that's the desperation that we, like, we can call these people cuckoo clocks and like all this stuff, but Lowland, I'd actually, I'd picked that one for Lowland earlier today, and I said, it's so sad to me to like watch these people put their hope and faith in this like one thing of healing.
It's like, you can just see how desperate they are, and it's just, it's heartbreaking, and like actually, you know, I've never talked to someone who has done something like that, so I found that to be interesting, but.
The guy that runs it has multiple rehabs across, and he was an apostle as well.
Did you know that?
We should have him on.
Yeah, for sure. Do you know that Islam believes that Jesus is still alive? Oh, I think we have something to say.
Oh yeah.
The Islam.
Oh, oh, excuse me. I was missing the.
He was doing such a good job with that.
That's right, I'm sorry.
I messed that up.
That transition.
All right, I'm ready.
I was a little confused at first too.
So we had a listener question. That's what he was getting at.
Yeah, so we had a listener question on one of our episodes from, I think it was season four. It was our Islam episode. If you haven't watched that, it's a good listen, so you should go to that one really quick if you can.
She actually commented on the video and said, my daughter has become a Muslim, and I don't know how to handle that. I believe that Jesus died on the cross for us, and for her to not believe something I believe so strongly in is hard.
She has left her home and hasn't contacted us in months. Any advice? I got her consent for us to answer this on the episode. I thought it was better answered on the episode versus in the comment section of that video.
So I would say, first off, I'm sorry that you guys have to go through that pain and hurt, especially since she cut off all ties. And preparing to give you an answer to this, question that you had for any advice is like, since you can't talk to her, she's not listening to anything you're saying, is like one of the best things that you can do for her is to pray for her, and if she does, speak to you to speak truth to her.
So that's like really my advice in a nutshell, is like, this is completely out of your control, and the only thing that you can do is be obedient to God in that, and prayer is a big part of that. But I figured pastor had something like more to say,.
But.
My prayers are for you and your husband. It's always the word of God, and it's always true. That's all I've got, yeah. I don't know what to say.
That is heart-wrenching. But I would tell you, not only is prayer the only thing you can do for her at this point, it's the best thing you can do for her. If God is sovereign. God is in control. Sovereign.
The prayers of a righteous man avail of much. I would say this, though. In my experience, God has brought many people back to hear a word one more time. I have seen it happen many times. My prayer for you is that you are prepared not just to oppose Islam, but to 1 Peter 3 .15, to give a reasoned defense for the hope that is in you.
A reasoned defense for the hope that's in you. And pray that God give you the opportunity to share that reasoned defense with your daughter. Pray for her that scales will fall from eyes and ears will unstop.
We'll pray for that as we close today. A couple notes. Remember that with all unbelievers, everyone in this room either was or is. It is not a matter of the mind, it's a matter of the heart. However, God can and has used the mind to regenerate the heart.
Just a couple things with Islam to keep in mind. And these are just quick pointers for you. The Quran was written down 600 years after Jesus left the planet. They are the supposed revelations of one man named Muhammad who received revelations from Gabriel over 23 year period of time that were written down later by his followers.
I challenge you, find every religion you want. And it will always come down to this. One guy had a special revelation from God that only he could interpret and you just have to take his word for it. Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Charles Russell, excuse me.
It doesn't matter. I can continue to say names. We could talk about any religion you want. It's gonna come down to one dude claimed to have a special revelation from God that only he can interpret, you just gotta take his word for it.
This is the work of 40 men over 1500 years on three continents and three different languages who never met each other for the most part and yet it all says the same thing.
We have multiple transcripts saying that.
That can't just happen. I can't get 40 people in the same room of the same ethnicity and the same language to agree on anything. Much less 40 different, spread over 1500 years. The error of Islam, of which there's many, is trusting in further revelation of God with nothing to go on except the revelation of one supposed man.
You wouldn't do that in anything else in life. Nothing else. But further than that, the saddest thing about Islam is there's zero assurance.
We were talking about that this morning in Sunday school.
Yes we were and I know that because your husband showed me his notes. You can die with no assurance. Whereas God's word says, I write these things to you who believe in the name and the son of God that you may know you have eternal life.
First John chapter five. I love that passage. At any rate, our prayer for you is that you'll be rekindled with your daughter, not just for a family relationship but so that you can share the hope that's in you.
Can we close by praying for that?
Absolutely. Well I first wanted to thank her for sending in.
What was her name?
Sonia.
So Sonia, thank you so much for sending in that question but also being vulnerable. Because that's definitely not easy to not only post your business on the internet but ask for help as well through such a tragic time in your life.
So we just want to thank you for doing that. And then yeah, we'll just close this episode with a prayer for her and her family.
You want me to do it?
Okay. God, we pray for Ms. Sonia and her daughter. Yeah, we pray that scales fall from eyes, that you unstop theirs, that you remove a heart of stone and put it in a heart of flesh. God, for Sonia, she believes hope or unbelief.
God, let her know and have a reasoned defense for the joy that is in her. And when, God, and we pray in faith that when you reunite her with her daughter, that she's able to share the gospel. God, that she is born of the spirit and of the flesh.
And that God, you give her eyes to see and ears to hear. In your holy name we pray, amen.
All right, see y 'all next week.
Awesome.