Video Reactions & a Listener Dilemma (Special Guest Robert Bonds) | S6 E2

Boom. Pop. Pow. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Point Taken Christian Podcast.

Today we have Pastor Josiah Shipley, and then we have Robert. Robert, I can't remember your last name.

Bonds. Bonds, that's it. My man. I knew that. Robert Bonds. So, I don't know. I'm like on a first name basis with a lot of people here, and I'm just like, what's your last name?

We can call him Robert. Most people do. So, I'm not trying to call a particular person out.

I will leave her nameless, but she's like, I watch you. She came up to me this morning at church, and she said, I watch you on the podcast like every week, and I cannot remember your name.

No, she didn't. You introduce yourself every week. That's so awesome. No, and then I didn't know that.

And if she's watching, I didn't have the courage to tell her that I could not remember your name. Oh, let me tell you something.

I'm going to tell you what I do. I'm so embarrassed. This happens to me all the time. I'm so bad with names.

It's horrible. I'm straightforward now. I've just gotten to that point. I'm like, hey, how are you doing? I forgot your name, but luckily

I don't feel bad because I'm 80 % sure you forgot mine. Hey, that's not good. I'm going to steal that. And when they hesitate, I'm like, excellent.

I feel better. What's your name? I just say, we'll do it two or three more times, and then we'll get it. You just go ahead in front of the friends, and that's what happened two or three times.

I did a lot of things as a child. I can't remember. See, I can't use that excuse. Right. Yeah. I mean, you got punched in the face.

I still do. In the head, yeah. That's present tense. You're right. Football as a 30. Your birthday's today.

Happy birthday. Thank you. Happy birthday. To you. I forgot about that. It was technically yesterday, but.

34. Oh, no, that is right, because I saw your sister on Friday, and she said it was tomorrow. I can remember. But yeah, happy birthday. Yeah, of course.

I always tell my wife that it's the 16th. I know. You're freaking messed up. I changed the code in her phone. And she almost got locked out because it's my birthday.

Stop. She almost got locked out. So when she got there, and she goes, maybe it is his birthday.

She goes, Josiah, quit playing. Did you change the code on my phone, or is your birthday released? She has a one -month -old, and she's like,

I don't know. I love it. Like, she'll be on the phone with the insurance company, and she goes, this is not the time to play, Josiah. Is it the 16th or the 17th?

I need you to be serious right now. And I can't be serious if she says that sentence. Oh, bless her heart.

You have a very patient wife. She has to be. He's like, oh, you better watch it.

He's about to say one thing. She is pretty patient. No, it's a compliment to you that she is so patient.

That's good. It's your fault that she's patient, I think is what she said. Yeah, you have made her a patient woman.

That's right. Isn't that a Proverbs 31 thing? Thank you. Yeah, maybe. Thank you. I have helped sanctify her.

That's what he's saying. I have been the tool in God's hand to sanctify my wife's patience. That's much better.

She's understanding, and your prayers aren't hindered. My prayers are not hindered. That's exactly right. That's good. Well, God bless

Rachel. We love her. She's pretty awesome. So today, we are actually going to be doing TikTok reactions.

Our producers, Dalton and Lowell, have picked out some awesome TikToks for us to react to.

So we have not seen these, so we can have our genuine reactions. So are you going to be surprised?

I am already. So I've heard that we have some wackadoos in this mix, is what

I call them. So I'm really excited to see what's sad.

Yeah, last time we did this, it was a bunch of blasphemy. So let's see how this is. Well, and there was actually one person,

I think Lowell ended up picking. It was in the group message that I sent, and I said, we need to do one of this girl's videos, because she's pretty nuts.

But that one came through on my Shorts feed. Oh, look at that. And I was just like, oh yeah, we got to react to it.

So I haven't seen the video, but I've seen some of her stuff before. She's pretty nuts.

So we'll have to see. Recently, I did hear about a new translation out called the

Gen Z Bible, where someone had taken the scriptures and translated it into Gen Z language.

Now I'm going to read part of this. I do want to let you know, I would never dishonor God's word.

I have triple checked this to make sure this is exactly what Luke 1 communicates when the angel talks to Mary.

Check this out. Mary was a pick me girl for God and was simping for him in prayer when the angel

Gabriel appeared to her and said, Ayo, you're a real one and the top G is feeling you. But she thought his compliment was sus and gave him the side eye.

So he said, baby girl, chill. God sent me to tell you, you've passed this vibe check.

And low key, he wants you to have the main character. You name him Jesus and they will all say he's him.

She said, I like that part. How can this be since I promised him my body count will always be zero.

Respectfully. He said, this ain't about cuffing season. For the Holy Spirit will live rent free in you and your boy

Jesus will be a divine bro. Beside your cousin Elizabeth is with child.

She who is already older than a boomer and whose husband is way past beekeeping age. So Mary said, bet.

Gabriel left her on red and she let the Holy Spirit cook. Gabriel left her on red. So I saw one thing like they don't say child.

Is it child? What is that? What is that? Oh, child. I think that was like the 70s.

I don't know how to even say it. You remember the old black lady would be like, oh, child, stop.

Oh, okay. Because I was like I saw like child and then I was like, did he say that? And it sounded like he actually said that.

I don't know. I don't know Gen Z slang. We were talking about that earlier before we hit record. It was comical in the way that like that's how

Gen Z speaks. But the fact that they use that to translate scripture is insulting.

Into the word. I agree. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird because I read

Luke one this week. Oh, did you? Yes, I did. Confirmation. I read Luke one this week.

Well, half of what they were saying. I don't even know what that is. Okay. Sound a little sus.

When it said she was simp and forgot. Right. I know what it sounds like. Yeah. I guess.

Okay. So like that's a. Yeah. Like when it's.

I don't even know how to respond to that. I mean, that's pretty crazy. I don't know what simping is. Simping?

I'm an adult. I know what it means. I'll let Dalton say it. Get the Dalton mic. Come on. Yeah. No. No, no.

Grab the microphone. Give us your. You were on here last week. Interpretation. That's right. And speak. Go. Okay.

Simping. Trying to figure out the right wording for it. It's like if you do something.

Like if you like. Give me a context. Okay. So let's say a high school boy likes a girl. Uh huh.

Okay. And you go in and you're trying to do something nice. Basically flirting with her.

Yeah. That was my understanding. Yeah. And you're like. Oh dude. Why are you such a simp? Because you're kind of like trying to just hang out with her all the time.

Is it slang for like simpleton? Sympathize. I thought it was like sympathize. Sympathize? Like. Yeah. But it's flirting.

Yeah. It's basically flirting. Just being kind. Yes. Okay. Flirting. So. So in that context, what did they say?

Mary was flirting with her. Is that what we heard? Mary was flirting with God.

That's why I made that sound. Because my understanding was it was a synonym for flirting. That's obviously blasphemous.

Right. That's not funny. But I did like when they said.

And you'll have a son. And he's him. Yeah. That's pretty good. I did like that part. Left Gabriel in red.

I guess she didn't respond to him. You know. Oh. Like unread. Like unread.

Yeah. I read the text message. And she did. A divine bro. That one was kind of funny.

That. Yeah. So. It's like bad taste, but kind of. You know. Kind of funny. Cringy at most.

It is kind of like when Pastor Jeff has said before. You know. When you have the.

Especially in the 90s. The young youth pastor. And like he'll. He'll like roll up his sleeve half way so you can see his sleeve tattoo.

And he's like. You know. J .C.'s up in the house. He's your bro. Yeah. He's also the sovereign king of the universe.

He's returning to judge the living and the dead. They call us brother. You know.

And friend. Right. But he's also coming back to judge the living and the dead.

Very much so. Yeah. That wasn't my favorite translation. No. Because it wasn't a translation.

I didn't even know that was like. Is that a real. Surely not. Like version. Probably. No. I'm going to look that up.

There's like. Not that I don't believe you. I don't want it to be true. There's one that I've read.

It's called Hawaiian Pigeon. But it's basically. Almost ebonics.

Almost. Just super modern slang. Like instead of saying

Jesus and disciples. And Jesus and the boys went to town. Right. Something like that. Right. But obviously for anyone who doesn't know.

That is not a serious translation. A translation is something that takes the original Greek and Hebrew.

And translates it into modern day. Not make it sound like what you want to say. Yeah. That was pretty humorous.

But no. That would not be a Bible that would be read at this church. So there's an actual website.

It's Gen Z dot Bible. Of course there is. Well wouldn't there be?

Of course there is. I'm trying to click on. Maybe it's just taken. Okay.

Let's go to. Maybe you have to subscribe. No. It's just popping up. Exodus 1.

First one. So here's the deal. Here's the deal. These are the names of the children of Israel who made their way to Egypt.

Each person along with their fam rolled with Jacob. Yo fam. Check out these OG brothers.

Reuben, Simon, Levi, and Judah. At least he keeps their names. Yo, it's Dan, Napthali, Gad, and Asher.

So like all the people who came from Jacob's fam. Did it say so like? So comma, like comma.

All the people who came from Jacob's fam. So comma, like comma. So like all the people who came from Jacob's fam were like 70 in total because Joseph was already living it up in Jesus, you know.

Oh my God. Stop. Like this is. It's insulting.

Cassie wants to know. Yeah. What are you going for? John 2028. Should I read what it actually says?

John 2028. Jesus appears to Thomas. This is for real. Jesus appears to Thomas after he's been resurrected.

And he says, peace be with you. And Thomas looks at him and worships him and says, my

Lord and my God. That's what Thomas said to Jesus. My Lord and my God. We'll see.

Y 'all ready for this one? This is John chapter 20. From the Gen Z Bible.

The other homies were like, yo, we saw the Lord. But he was like, nah, I need to see his hands and those nail marks and stick my finger in him and even put my hand in his side or I ain't going to believe.

And like eight and comma, like comma. Eight days later, his squad was all getting together again, including

Thomas, you know. And Jesus suddenly showed up even though the doors were totally closed.

This is Ricky reading this. And he was like, what's up, guys? Peace out, y 'all. And he said to Thomas, yo, come here and check this out.

Feel my hands. Put your finger and put your hand in my side. Don't doubt, bro. Just believe. And Thomas was like, yo,

Jesus, you're my main homie, bro. You're my Lord, my God, all in one. Jesus.

So this is what the sovereign creator said. Jesus said to Thomas, like, bro, I get why you believe because you saw me and all.

But real blessings go to those who haven't seen me yet still believe. I can't read any more of this. I can't do any more of that.

So, all right. Yeah. What do we have to say about that? That's ridiculous. That is heretical and that is pathetic.

Well, it's the fact that it well, like you said, it's heretical. It's pathetic. I think it's stupid in the way that, like, if this generation cannot even begin to comprehend, like, the

ESV version of scripture, it's just like that is insulting to your intelligence and that's upsetting.

But I think this is more of like a comical. I would hope this would. I would hope so.

Yeah. Well, I mean, if it's used in a comical, I mean, that's one thing. But if that's a Sunday morning, someone's preaching.

Could you imagine if someone was quoting the scripture? Oh, I'd walk out. No, no.

Like, off of memory. Like, they memorized this version. Yo, bro, chillax.

So, basically, at first. So, this is Genesis 1. In the very start, God made the sky and the earth.

So, basically, at first, the earth was a hot mess. It didn't have any structure or anything. Just emptiness and darkness all around.

But then the Spirit of God started doing its thing. I can't help but, like, talk with expression.

Then God was like, yo, let there be light. And boom, there was light. The boom,

I don't mind. I don't mind the boom. It might have been loud. He might have created sound when he did that.

You know, that's okay. It probably was loud. Well, and then verse 4. And then God was like, yo, this light is lit.

This light is lit, bro. This light is lit. And was it loud?

Because there was no one to hear it yet. Oh. That was deep. But yeah, otherwise, if this was a real version someone was reading,

I would be very concerned. As their Bible or whatever, I'd be very concerned.

Because it's like, to me, this is funny. But I would never take this as scripture. Well, you know, it's like, we're saying the younger generation.

We all, when people want God, when people want him to look like them, that's why you can walk into some churches and there's a picture of a pale Jesus with blonde hair.

I don't know any pale people who live in the Middle East. Can you find me someone living in the Mediterranean, living in Israel, who has pale skin, is 6 '4", and blonde with blue eyes?

Probably not. They might be in Albino and they definitely don't have blue eyes. Probably where they're getting their frame of reference from.

Yeah, I just, I don't know. I think it's comical, but if that is your scripture, that is a big, you need to do some self -reflecting.

What would you do if your child came up to you and quoted that scripture and you have absolutely no idea? It'd be like common core math.

I cannot do common core math. You kids are 9 and 10? Yeah. I can't do regular math.

I couldn't figure out common core math. Like, some people have talked about that. I'm like, there's no way I'm going to figure that out. Well, there's a box and there's things that you add and I just,

I don't understand. I didn't do good in algebra anyway. I did pretty good in algebra. But like, yeah, but if my kid came up quoting this to me,

I would probably smack them in the mouth. Like, what the heck are you reading? Like, this is not, this is not scripture.

Well, it humanizes Jesus and the deity of God. You know, the bro and the, you know.

Well, and it takes the respect out of it too. Like Pastor Josiah said, like you were talking about the all sovereign

God of the universe and you're calling him like your bro. Like there's that one song, I don't know if it was like in the 70s or 80s or like whatever time period.

But it was like, Jesus is my friend. Jesus is a friend of mine or whatever.

And I'm like, I just don't like the, I don't like being like, Jesus is my friend. Like, I understand that Jesus is my friend.

He is the son of God. He is like all sovereign whatever. But I'm like, but like you said, they take it to a point of where it's like, hey buddy, you know, like, hey

Jesus. Even though he was friends with his disciples, like he deserves respect. It can be taken too far.

That's what you're saying. And it's like, he's not just like some buddy buddy that you're, you know, hanging out with and like having a good time with.

Like, no, he's, he's the sovereign God. Yeah. I mean, we even put boundaries on those with our own children. Like, like, like Robert's kids, my kids, your kid, like they can be our friend in the sense that we are friendly.

Right. But at the end of the day, the difference between me and Ava is nowhere near the difference between me and God.

So there has to be a level of otherness. He's him. Yeah.

All right. Very good. Number one, done. If that was the worst one we have to do, we're going to be okay today.

No, I think there's... Lola's smiling. All right. Video number two coming up in five, four, three, two, one.

No, you did it. Why was Hitler wrong? I mean, I could do my whole essay about that. Well, tell me, tell me one sentence as to why

Hitler was objectively wrong. To me? No, no, no. Of course he was.

So there's something above you and above Hitler that we're comparing right to. What is that something?

Morality. Where do we get that from? How you come up, where you're from, your parents, your culture. I mean, the place you live.

I mean, a lot of different things. So are some moralities better or right? More right than wrong than other moralities?

I would say no, because it just comes down to you personally. Okay, so the Taliban believes it's okay to rape eight -year -old boys called

T -boys. Are they wrong? To me, yes, they are wrong, but to themselves, they think it's right. Are they objectively wrong?

Okay, what is an objective? What is the objective? Well, hold on, objectively, looking outside. According to what? Right and wrong.

That comes down to me. And to me, they're wrong. But to them, they're right.

Wow. Wow. You ever meet someone so stupid, they make you squint?

Yes. I saw one of those guys in the mirror last week. That's right. No, this guy, it's like, oh, honey.

Have you heard me yet? You know what? I have actually had that exact conversation several times.

I promise. The morality argument? Yeah. It's sad. Like, when you press people in the right way, sometimes they'll recognize.

The book of Proverbs says, do not answer a fool according to his folly. And then the next verse says, but answer a fool according to his folly.

Right. So the book of Proverbs says, do not answer a fool according to his folly, but answer a fool according to his folly.

I used to think like, but now I understand what it means. Don't answer a fool according to his folly.

In other words, he's screaming and yelling, so you scream and yell back. You're answering him according to his folly. But you answer a fool according to his folly.

His logic. By holding up a mirror and letting him see how ridiculous he looks.

Not in a mean way. That exact thing I've experienced many times.

And sometimes I'll even have, it's happened several times, especially with some ladies, they'll start to tear up because they know their position is untenable.

You know? In other words, if you press it and you say, okay, I understand what you're saying.

You would say they're wrong. They would say they're right. How do we make laws? Do you get to be the one to decide?

Or them? Right. She started tearing up. I'm like, right. This is why you're tearing up, because you know

I'm right. If there's not a standard outside of ourselves, whoever's the strongest gets to make the laws.

And that's a crappy world to live in. That's what's got us to the point we're at in almost every nation on the planet.

Right. So that's a terrible way to live. But if there's something beyond us that gets to determine what's right and wrong, then we all have something we have to answer to.

That's the reality of it. Well, that's what they try to say. It's like, oh, morality is subjective.

It's like, no, it's not. It is objective. Like you have right is right and right, or wrong is wrong.

So it has to be right all the time or wrong all the time. It can't be right sometimes or wrong sometimes.

It has to be all the time. Yeah. You have experienced something like that, moral relativity?

Oh, every day. Being in the 12 -step program, the whole self -care, self -thought, the guy was just,

I'm the one who gets to decide what's right is right and wrong is wrong. Well, to me, I don't think it's wrong, but to them, they might think it's right.

It's like, you think raping eight -year -old boys is right? And they would say no, but to them it's right. That's okay.

But it's okay to them. This is normally the example I use to help someone see the light, and sometimes they're not willing to, but normally this is the one

I said, okay, I understand all that, but let's say, I won't normally use something extreme as rape, but let's say it was your son who was mugged and stuff was stolen from him and the dude's in the courtroom and it's a judge there.

Are you going to press charges? Because if so, I'm going to press charges on him.

And she was like, I guess you're right, I am. I said, okay. Now, you started this conversation by saying

I'm imposing my morality, and what I'm trying to say to you is I'm not imposing my morality. I'm declaring to you it is a morality above all of us, even me, whether you want to admit it or not.

You're the one who's trying to impose. So, yeah. All honest people, including atheists, do not go with the majority argument and the majority gets to make up the morality.

The problem with that is the problem with using anything other than a non -human standard.

If you use the majority argument, then you would have been pro -slavery in the 1800s. If you use the law, the legal argument,

I think there are some laws in this country right now that are horrible, including previously. You would have been for or against those based on whatever the current law was.

Even that guy said, with the culture, he's like, well, it depends on your culture and your parents and how you were raised and all of this stuff.

I can see what he means culturally because with our culture now, not everyone is like this, and thank

God for that, but the culture now, it's okay for children under the age of 18 to mutilate their bodies and cut off their sexual organs in order for them to identify as another gender so they won't commit suicide.

Even if you took it to, we in America, we think it's just unfathomable that we would have to kill somebody to protect our families in other parts of the world.

That happens every day. But it's based on the culture, and so people's ideals and moralities change based on that and not being objective like we talked about.

In scripture, it talks about corporal punishment, which I'm for. Some people might not like that.

I don't care. You can comment in the comments section. Disciplining your children and other things like not gentle parenting and all these things that people have traumas on.

It's all subjective to what they feel. It's all about feelings.

This is how I feel. I don't freaking care. I really don't. We have to filter our feelings through the word of God no matter what it is.

That's where morality comes from. It comes from God, the creator of all things.

It doesn't come from how we feel and what we think is right. I think based on what scripture says, if you take a life, your life gets taken.

You forfeit the right to your life. It talks about punishments for rape. It talks about punishments for all these things.

If we just did what the Bible said, we could save a ton of money on these inmates on death row.

Just take them out, backstone them. You don't have to pay any money. Just saying. That's not what people like.

It's not nice. There's a reality to the way

God sets up the justice system. Slavery. That's one of my favorite examples.

I hear atheists all the time. I heard Bill Maher saying it the other day that the Bible does not forbid slavery.

Exodus 21 16 says, I don't know how many times I've quoted this on this podcast. Exodus 21 16.

Anyone who kidnaps a man, buys him or sells him shall be put to death.

That's the tribal leader in Africa who took his dude to the coast. That's the Spaniard on the ship that brought him to the

Caribbean. That's the dude at the auction site in Georgia. That's the plantation owner.

All put to death. That would have ended the transatlantic slave trade in one day. I feel like Mike now.

I'm just moving my face. That's what we're supposed to follow.

God says, I'll have mercy on whom I have mercy and compassion on whom I have compassion. He gets to decide in the long run whether that life's taken or if you get caught, if I get caught,

I get stoned to death. Right. In the

Israeli community, he set up, those were his punishment systems.

He set those up that way. He had differing, for example, where we get the term manslaughter, when there was an accidental murder, he had cities of refuge for them to run to.

Now, God did not punish the

Assyrians for having the exact justice system that he set up in the

Israelite community because he set that up for them. What I'm saying is if we modeled our justice system more on the justice system

God had put in place, we would see a lot better results. And there's still some remnants of that.

Some of our laws on the books are still based from what we would call Judeo -Christian values.

Ever since the flood, he said, if you take a man's life, your life shall be taken by a man.

That's how he set it up. I was actually reading that scripture last night and I just thought about all the abortions and the doctors, the mothers of these babies and the amount of pay for the abortion or encouragement and stuff.

I'm like, man, that is a lot of blood on these people. That's why I'm so, like when

I read the punishments for breaking

God's law, the only reason I'm overwhelmed with Amazing Grace, How Sweet the

Sound, is because I recognize what justice calls for. If you don't first recognize what justice calls for, there's nothing to praise about mercy and grace.

I said this a few weeks ago, I was at the gym and I was telling somebody the gospel and I ended by saying, isn't

God's grace and mercy so wonderful? And his answer to me was, not really. That implies I have something

I need to repent of. He said, who is he to tell me what to do? Okay, well, you don't get it.

That's okay, work on that. At least he was honest. What you're saying when you say

God is so gracious and merciful is that I am undeserving of it and I am deserving of justice.

For sure. Yeah, that's a good point. Because it's like, until you understand that you need a

Savior and that you need that mercy and grace and like what you said, you don't understand what you have.

You don't understand the gift that you've been given. Not even close. No, that was a good word. I hope that God has his heart open.

There are two ways that God enlightens your mind because there are two kinds of light in your mind.

There is the light of the world and then the light of heaven. Our inner self sees and understands things by heaven's light, but our outer self sees and understands things by worldly light.

Here's how it works. You use your rational mind to sort through spiritual teachings. You try to figure out which ones seem credible, which seem like they could be true, which ones do

I want to kind of live by. But it's only when you've got those in your mind and then with your inner self you look through the light of heaven.

When that light comes in, then you can perceive, then you can live by God.

So is that in when he's saying like that processes between you and God, is that like God revealing something to you through the

Holy Spirit? Is that what he's trying to get at? Like when you finally click like scripture, you're like, oh, that's what

I get or God's trying to teach you a particular lesson in your life like to be more patient.

I think the Secrets of Heaven is the book that he was reading. I saw it at the top and I was like, okay, that's what that was.

If that's what he was describing, that would be fine. I don't think that's what he was describing. Okay, but that's why I was trying to better understand what he was talking about.

What you just described is what the Bible calls enlightenment. But that's not what he said.

He said that your worldly light and your, what do you call it, your spiritual light, and when your inner being sheds light on that,

God reveals to you what's true. But it's not your inner being that sheds light on that, it's the Holy Spirit through his words.

The enlightenment that he said. So, you know, the Bible says 2

Timothy 3, 16 and 17, all scripture is breathed out by God and is profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training righteousness so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

So all that Anna, Josiah, and Robert need to be equipped for every good work is the teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training righteousness that comes from all scripture.

The word of God. That's what we need. So whatever he's talking about, your inner being reveals this light and this light, no, the

Bible is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. Pastor Jeff shed some light, if you will, on that passage years ago and I've never forgotten it.

The word of God, it says, Psalm 119, is a lamp unto my feet, which means it shows me where I'm at and what

I'm standing in, and a light unto my path shows me where I'm going. Isn't that good? He's right. It's a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.

Psalm 19, one of my favorite chapters, if you want to think of it that way, in the Bible, says the scriptures, the law of God, are able to make the fool wise, to make the simple wise, to make the eyes light up.

It makes foolish people like me wise. The Bible can do that. So I don't know what he's talking about, inner being and inner light.

It's the word of God. That's what does it. But you don't think he's referring to the word of God when he's saying that?

You know, the light of heaven. If he is, that's fine. I don't know why he's calling it light of heaven and worldly light. It's really cryptic. Yeah.

If that's what he meant, sure. But when he said, that's between you and God. Right. Well, kind of.

It's between God and his whole church. We all have the same scripture that we're reading. But there's...

It's your personal relationship. Of course it's your personal relationship. I guess if he means by that, that the

Holy Spirit personally illuminates part of his word to you, I'm game with that. I've seen that.

I've tasted that. I've felt that. I don't think that's what he's saying either. Well, if that's not what he's saying, unfortunately. Well, and so I'm looking up the book that I think...

It didn't specify the author, did it? In that video, it was just the title. It said the title, Secrets of Heaven.

Secrets of Heaven. So I looked it up. I don't know if this is the right author, because I saw a different author and stuff.

So Secrets of Heaven, Mystery Teachings of the Angels. And so it's...

It's getting weird. It sounds like a whack -a -joo book. It's getting worse. It's getting worse. You're not Clay. We were trying to meet him halfway.

It's getting worse. From the depth... Because that book was that thick. Yeah. It was a pretty honking read. It says,

From the depths of mystery come the secrets of heaven. They have come to take you deeper into the experience of mystery and purpose that surrounds your presence in the world.

Here the angelic assembly seeks to share with you what has long been forgotten in the world, those truths that once guided the prophets, poets, messengers, and mystics throughout ages.

Here the ancient memory and awareness that dwelt within you can be rekindled, revealing your greater gifts and higher purpose in life.

The secrets of heaven hold the power to unlock these gifts deep at the heart of humanity. With these gifts, there is new hope for the world.

Heaven asks you to receive its secrets. For the low price of $99. Each secret is a window into the greater reality.

Each secret is an opportunity to peer through the looking glass and see ourselves as we were seen from above.

Now we are looking through the eyes of heaven to see ourselves, others, and the world as never before. And the author of this one is

Marshall Vane Summers. Ephesians 1. It'll tell you how God sees you.

It's pretty good. So, yeah, like after reading that, I'm like, okay, this is kind of wacky. Any credit we were trying to give the guys, quickly join the link.

That's why I was like, what is the book that he's reading? Because at first I thought he was reading like from the book and he's like talking about the

Bible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because it looks like a thick book. Then I noticed he was like reading like this and like staring at you at the video and the book opens.

Well, and I was like, it has a picture on the front. Usually Bibles don't have that unless you have like a specific cover for it.

And so I was looking at that and I'm like, that looks like a legit, so I just want to do some more. I'm glad we ended up doing some more research into that.

So that was a wacky, wacky. All right. Well, okay. We tried. We tried.

It's okay. It's a fight, but. At you from all of this, everything you have renounced must go in Jesus name.

On three, all must leave her now in Jesus name. Yeah. One, two.

Whoa. I'm just laughing. It wasn't the one. I expected it to be. Hallelujah.

Hallelujah. Is she okay? I don't know. I guess she is now. Spirit of witchcraft. I detach you from all of that.

Now I break every curse of witchcraft. Hallelujah.

Every spirit of addiction. All must leave him now.

He looks like he's addicted. In Jesus name. Yeah, it was good. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you, Lord. We're free now. Yeah. Okay. So this was the same lady that I sent in the group message.

I did not enjoy watching that. So her YouTube name or her channel is under Apostle Catherine Crick.

So she considers, yes, she considers herself an apostle. So I found that to be interesting.

That's your Bible. Please. Is it okay? Yeah. You don't ever ask. You don't have to ask. But isn't it when like there's scripture in the

New Testament talking about like how there are apostles to carry out the miracles of God, but people interpret that as like anybody can be an apostle and carry that out instead of like the 12 apostles versus all of us disciples that.

Yeah. Yeah. So is that the verse you're going to read? Yeah. Okay. All right.

Revelation chapter 21, verse 14. We're talking about new heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem. We're talking about the eternal state.

You ready? And the wall of the city had 12 foundation stones and on them were the 12 names of the 12 apostles of the land.

Whoa. All right. Now let's. 12.

Is that different from the 12 tribes? Yes. The 12 tribes are written on the cities, on the cities measuring walls.

I know that God likes his numbers, forties and twelves and sevens and threes and like all that stuff. So I was just making sure that was differentiated between the two.

It was. So the 12 apostles. Yeah. So here we go. By the way. Are you done with that?

The Bible? Yes. Yes. So look, and I understand that Judas was removed. So Paul stepped in and we had

Matthias for a little placeholder until Paul came in a few years later. That's right. But if I may, whenever someone calls himself apostle today, now

I know not all of them mean it this way. In the sense that the word apostle means messenger, well then we're all apostles.

But in the sense of the title apostle, I have a real problem with someone calling themselves an apostle.

I would like to know if there are only 12 names of the apostles on these foundations, which one did you scratch off to write your name on there?

Did you remove John or Peter? Maybe Matthew? Who got booted off for you to come on?

And when someone says, well Josiah, they don't mean it like that. Well, they should because it's 12 apostles and he chose all 12 of them.

You know what's funny? When they chose Matthias, M -A -T -T -I -S, Matthias, I don't know how to say his name

I guess, as the replacement for Judas until Paul came. Do you remember the qualifications they had?

He had to have been walking with them from the beginning, been a part of Jesus since the baptism, and seen him resurrected.

If you can find me someone today that has those three qualifications, sure, we can have a discussion.

But since that's impossible, it's a unicorn. I have seen that firsthand, slaying the spirit.

Now listen guys. Slaying the spirit. Slaying in the spirit. Slaying in the spirit.

I apologize. Oh, slaying in the spirit. No, you're okay. The Holy Spirit is a person of the

Godhead and is a powerful worker. He is the author of the Holy Scriptures. He distributes gifts to the church for the purpose of growing the church as he wills and whenever he wants,

Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12. It is amazing to me that we often have people who are millionaires, who have people fall out during their services, but none of these supposed healings or slaying the spirits are things that can be evidentially proven.

It's like, oh, I'm thinking of somebody who has a headache this morning. It's never somebody who doesn't have a leg and now has a leg.

And I'm going to go a step further. Isn't it amazing that it was mostly churches like those that closed down during COVID?

Could someone explain that to me? I was actually talking about that with Lowell earlier. So rehab number 67 that I went to, it was, whatever it was,

Assembly of God, whatever it was. The guy was up there and there was worship music playing and he was like, anybody who needs healing from, you know, whatever it was.

The spirit of addiction. Spirit of addiction. You know, I think it was tobacco addiction because they had found a couple of vapes and you weren't supposed to have vapes or whatever, but like we're like 14 people and I went up there and was standing there and the guy put his hand on my head and like there were two guys behind me and like he was pushing and like they were pulling and like I didn't,

I want it to be real and it just, it didn't happen for me that way, but I have seen somebody fall out in the spirit, get so excited and you know,

I think that's different than Bonnie Hinn. Benny Hinn? Oh no, she was

Bonnie. You know, there are many well -intending, don't let this be a poking fun at charismatics.

There are many charismatic Assemblies of God Pentecostal Christians who are more godly than me and if the whole jewels in your crown thing really was based on the amount of good works you did, would have far more jewels in the crown than I ever will.

However, guys, we have to be honest with ourselves. Almost, whenever we have somebody selling

God's miraculous works and then for the price of $39 .99,

we'll sell you a book and teach you how to do it. I have one of them in my office. Do you? Yes. Do you pay the $39 .99?

Wasn't it from one of our old members? One of our old members went to a prosperity gospel church, a charismatic style church very close to here and on her first Wednesday night

Bible study, if we want to use that term, they had all the new people, there were five new people, so they had pods of people surround all five of them and lay their hands on them and prayed over them and awaited for them to fall out and rise up speaking in tongues to know that they would be saved because they believe that speaking in tongues is the sign of salvation and by speaking in tongues, they only interpret that as angelic utterances, non -human languages.

So they're like pushing her down. Yeah. And she hears like someone else fall down and get up and say blah -bitty -blue and they all praise, hallelujah, amen, and she's the last one and like nothing's happening.

So she's like, I just wanted them to get away from me, so I just fell down and got up and just made up something and they all started praising

God because I was a Christian now. That's not the example we have from the Bible, guys.

Now listen, God can do amazing things. Let's let God do them. We don't have to dress it up, we don't have to make it fancier.

Let's let God do them and we don't have to do anything else. And by the way, one more thing. Spiritual darkness, spiritual warfare is a legitimate thing.

There's no demon of addiction. It's no – That was one thing I was going – but they say spirit of –

Well, it's the same thing. I mean, demons are spiritual beings. I mean, it's the same thing. So I found that interesting too.

Now listen, don't misunderstand me. There is spiritual darkness in heavenly places, prince powers of the air.

I understand all that stuff. We don't wrestle against flesh and blood. I understand all that. But sometimes we like to use things like that as an excuse for our own sin.

So we'll say – That a demon is possessing me. Yes. Remember Bugs Bunny? The angel and the demon and the demon makes him do it.

Remember the on -the -shoulder all that stuff? Well, that's not how it works. The Bible says, for the heart is desperately wicked and incurable.

And maybe the most powerful verse in the Bible for me on this – and are you going to accuse me of talking too much if I say this?

Okay. It's Ephesians chapter 2. It says, and you were dead in your trespasses and in your sins, and when she once walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler who exercises authority over the lower heavens.

All of us. It's not that Satan had you on a leash. You did whatever you wanted.

And what you wanted was directly in line with the prince and the power of the air. So do you believe in oppression, possession, all of these kind of –

Of course. Of course. Like manna? Of course. What are you talking about? Well, I mean – But it doesn't look like that.

No. It doesn't look like that. I don't think it looks like that. Yes. I think it looks like me in addiction not wanting to do the thing that I'm about to do and doing it anyway.

Well, it's like Paul talks about in the New Testament. It's like, why do I do the things that I know I shouldn't be doing but I don't want to do the things that I know

I should be doing? Right. Or not be doing. Exactly. What I'm saying is – and I think what we're all saying is that doesn't mean that person is possessed by a demon.

Right. Well, and the reason why – we talked about this on a previous episode Dr. Dana was on.

That's right. Remember? I do. And so it was the demon possession. It's like, why do we see that so much in like the

Bible times and we don't really see – like, you know, we see stuff like this, but why do we see so much of that during the

Bible times? And I think you said it was because God wanted Jesus to be able to perform these miracles to let people know that like he is

Lord. Yeah. Just to rehash that answer quickly, how many demonic possessions do you see in the book of Isaiah?

You don't. Okay. I haven't found one anyway. What about Malachi? I hadn't found them until Jesus came on the scene.

Right. Now you have a little bit of like God – and please note the sovereignty – sending a tormenting spirit to King Saul.

Right. Very little. Now, after Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, do you notice the steep drop -off?

Yeah, there's some in Acts. Steep drop -off. But the ones in Acts were done by the apostles.

That's right. What I'm getting at is you have three pastoral epistles with no mention of casting out demons and no instructions on how to do that.

You have nothing in the latter. It's literally – if you took out Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, you're probably taking away 95 % of demonic possession.

My theory behind that would be there are a limited number of demons on planet Earth. They are not omnipresent.

They can't be everywhere at once. They're not omniscient. They're not all -knowing. Hmm. And – sorry,

I just thought back to the Santa episode. Only God – no matter what else you tell you, whatever – only

God is omniscient, all -powerful, all -knowing. Not Satan, not demonic.

So, for three and a half years, the dark powers of this world were concentrated in one area, 20 square miles, because that is where they needed to stop or at least try to stop the plan of God from happening.

That would be from the Son of God having the death nail in death. So there was a concentration and an explosion of demonic activity in and around Jerusalem, Galilee, Nazareth, so on and so forth, that then distributes back across the planet after Vedita's done.

Now, that's my theory. I'm just supposing it's spread out in Genesis, so you don't see it that often.

It's spread out in Exodus and Leviticus and Numbers. When Jesus comes on the scene, there's only a limited amount of demons.

So they leave Argentina, they leave Canada, they leave what would later be called

Tennessee, and they all, or most of them, are coincided right there to try to stop.

I think there is some merit for this. If Michael is trying to bring a message to Daniel, and we have demonic powers trying to stop him in the book of Daniel, we have a movement to try to stop the work of God from coming.

But at the end of the day, they all bow to Jesus, not just in the end right now.

I mean, one of the most beautiful comments of God's sovereignty in the entire Bible is when

Jesus, without even speaking, walks into the presence of a bunch of demons possessing some guys that are cutting themselves, and they beg and say, we thought we had more time.

Please don't take us to the pit before the time. In other words, we know we're going there. Darrell Bock Could you imagine that day of pigs jumping off the cliff?

It's like, what the flipping heck is going on? Darrell Bock It's like clouds overhead, and it's really dark.

It's kind of drizzling. Rebekah Petrick I wanted to go back to the thing that you were saying about how you experienced something like this with one of the rehabs that you went to, was like, you wanted to be healed from whatever you were going through, and I think that's the desperation.

We can call these people cuckoo clocks and all this stuff, but I'd pick that one for Wolm earlier today, and I said it's so sad to me to watch these people put their hope and faith in this one thing of healing.

You can just see how desperate they are, and it's heartbreaking. I've never talked to someone who has done something like that, so I found that to be interesting.

Darrell Bock The guy that runs it has multiple rehabs across, and he was an apostle as well.

Rebekah Petrick We should have him on. Darrell Bock For sure. Do you know that Islam believes that Jesus is still alive?

Oh, I think we have something to say. Rebekah Petrick Oh, yeah. The Islam –

Darrell Bock Oh, excuse me. I was missing – Rebekah Petrick He was doing such a good job with that. I'm sorry. I messed that up. Rebekah Petrick That transition.

Darrell Bock I messed that up. All right. I'm ready. Rebekah Petrick I was a little confused at first, too. Darrell Bock So we had a listener question. That's what he was getting at.

Rebekah Petrick It was. Rebekah Petrick Yeah, so we had a listener question on one of our episodes from – I think it was season four.

It was our Islam episode. If you haven't watched that, it's a good listen, so you should go to that one really quick if you can.

She actually commented on the video and said, My daughter has become a Muslim, and I don't know how to handle that.

I believe that Jesus died on the cross for us, and for her to not believe something I believe so strongly in is hard.

She has left our home and hasn't contacted us in months. Any advice? I got her consent for us to answer this on the episode.

I thought it was better answered on the episode versus in the comments section of that video. So I would say, first off,

I'm sorry that you guys have to go through that pain and hurt, especially since she cut off all ties.

And preparing to give you an answer to this question that you had for any advice is like, since you can't talk to her, she's not listening to anything you're saying, it's like one of the best things that you can do for her is to pray for her.

And if she does speak to you, to speak truth to her. So that's like really my advice in a nutshell, is like, this is completely out of your control, and the only thing that you can do is be obedient to God in that, and prayer is a big part of that.

But I figured Pastor had something like more to say, but. You got anything to add to that? My prayers are for you and your husband.

It's always the Word of God, and it's always true. It's all of God. Yeah. I don't know what to say.

That is heart -wrenching. But I would tell you, not only is prayer the only thing you can do for her at this point, it's the best thing you can do for her.

If God is sovereign, since He's sovereign, the prayers of a righteous man avail of much.

I would say this, though. In my experience, God has brought many people back to hear a word one more time.

I have seen it happen many times. My prayer for you is that you are prepared not just to oppose

Islam, but to 1 Peter 3, to give a reasoned defense for the hope that is in you, a reasoned defense for the hope that's in you, and pray that God give you the opportunity to share that reasoned defense with your daughter.

Pray for her that scales will fall from eyes and ears will not stop. We'll pray for that as we close today.

A couple notes. Remember that with all unbelievers, everyone in this room either was or is, it is not a matter of the mind, it's a matter of the heart.

However, God can and has used the mind to regenerate the heart.

Just a couple things with Islam to keep in mind, and these are just quick pointers for you. The Quran was written down 600 years after Jesus left the planet.

They are the supposed revelations of one man named Muhammad who received revelations from Gabriel over a 23 -year period of time that were written down later by his followers.

I challenge you, find every religion you want, and it will always come down to this.

One guy had a special revelation from God that only he could interpret, and you just have to take his word for it.

Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Charles Russell, excuse me, it doesn't matter.

I can continue to say names, we can talk about any religion you want. It's going to come down to one dude claimed to have a special revelation from God that only he can interpret, and you just have to take his word for it.

This is the work of 40 men over 1 ,500 years on three continents in three different languages who never met each other for the most part, and yet it all says the same thing.

We have multiple transcripts saying that. We, that can't just happen. I can't get 40 people in the same room of the same ethnicity and the same language to agree on anything, much less 40 different, spread over 1 ,500 years.

The error of Islam, of which there's many, is trusting in further revelation of God with no, nothing to go on except the revelation of one supposed man.

You wouldn't do that in anything else in life, nothing else. But further than that, the saddest thing about Islam is there's zero assurance.

We were talking about that this morning in Sunday school. Yes we were, and I know that because your husband showed me his notes.

You can die with no assurance, whereas God's word says, I write these things to you who believe in the name of the

Son of God that you may know you have eternal life, 1 John chapter 5. I love that passage.

At any rate, our prayer for you is that you'll be rekindled with your daughter, not just for a family relationship, but so that you can share the hope that's in you.

Can we close by praying for that? Sure. Absolutely. Well, I first wanted to thank her for sending in her comment.

What was her name? Sonia. Sonia. So, Sonia, thank you so much for sending in that question, but also being vulnerable.

Yeah, that's true. Because that's definitely not easy to not only post your business on the internet, but ask for help as well through such a tragic time in your life.

So we just want to thank you for doing that. And then, yeah, we'll just close this episode with a prayer for her and her family.

You want me to do it? Sure. Okay. God, we pray for Ms.

Sonia and her daughter. God, we pray that scales fall from eyes, that you unstop ears, that you remove a heart of stone and put in a heart of flesh.

God, for Sonia, she believes hope or unbelief. God, let her know and have a reasoned defense for the joy that is in her.

And when, God, and we pray in faith that when you reunite her with her daughter, that she's able to share the gospel.

God, that she is born of the Spirit and of the flesh, and that, God, you give her eyes to see and ears to hear.