Matt Williams on Election Investigations

Conversations That Matter

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00:12

Welcome to the Conversations that Matter podcast. My name is John Harris. We have a returning guest today, Mr. Matt Williams from How to Build a

00:20

Tent podcast. It's still called How to Build a Tent. Actually, I just stopped doing that. I probably should have said that before the show.

00:26

He is not on How to Build a Tent podcast. The podcast I'm doing now is Reform Jellicle with A .D. Robles, which

00:31

I think you had on a couple of shows. Yes, I did have A .D. on. Yeah. And you were doing both, I think, at one time, right? We were doing both and now we're just doing the one and Reform Jellicle is now going to be part of the

00:40

Fight, Laugh, Feast network. So we'll be on a different stream over there starting next week. Gotcha. So where can people go to find that?

00:48

The Fight, Laugh, Feast stream. They also have their own app and then you can go to FLFnetwork .com

00:54

for the website to see the other shows and stuff like that, too. OK. All right. Well, very cool. You've been following the election stuff.

01:01

That's what we talked about last time was the various examples of I don't know what you want to call it because there's all sorts of different labels.

01:09

Fraud was one of the labels. But we've had an inauguration. And now what does this mean?

01:16

There's audits going on. So I was hoping you could just kind of bring us up to speed because I think this is still one of the biggest issues in politics, but it's swept under the rug even by Republicans, which

01:27

I don't quite understand why. But so, yeah, give me your analysis on that a little bit.

01:33

Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I don't remember when exactly I was on last time on your show, but we can just start with the main important audit that's going on is

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Arizona. Arizona is auditing not Arizona as a whole, but Maricopa County, which is a majority of the ballots.

01:52

2 .1 million ballots were audited and not just audited as far as being recounted, but also being examined for the paper quality to see if they were legitimate ballots.

02:04

They were also looking into the machines. They were trying to look into the machines.

02:09

It's actually quite interesting because the Maricopa County board is even though run by Republicans, five to one are

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Republicans. They've been fighting the Senate, who's the one overseeing the audit and asked for the audit this whole time.

02:23

There's been legal battles, court battles. And it turns out they withheld 40 % of the machines that were subpoenaed that they didn't even give to the auditors.

02:32

So, this whole time they've withheld things that should have been in the subpoena or that was in the subpoena that should have been delivered to the auditors by court order and by the

02:43

Senate. So, they've been auditing the machines. They're looking at packet captures right now, which is kind of interesting because I don't know if you've been listening to what

02:51

Mike Lindell's been talking about, but he's claimed that he has all the packet captures, which for those of you who aren't

02:58

IT people, a packet capture is basically like a packet is what you send from one computer to another to transfer information.

03:06

You can think of it like probably an email is a very simplistic way to think about it. Mike Lindell's claimed that he has all of the packet captures of foreign interference, sending information from their computers to the election computers that weren't supposed to be online.

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And anyways, all that to say is the liaison for the Senate has said that that's what the states are in right now.

03:30

They're analyzing the packet captures of seeing what information was carried from other machines to the election machines.

03:38

And it's basically just a really thorough audit. There's been very few leaks, if any, and all the leaks that people have been saying that's been coming out like 200 ,000 missing ballots, and there's going to be a bomb to drop here and there.

03:51

It's all been false and fake news, if you want to call it that. So there's been just incredible misinformation, real information.

04:02

There's been Katie Hobbs, the Secretary of State of Arizona, she's been going on MSNBC and Rachel Maddow for the last month because they're realizing how serious it is.

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The Senate stripped the Secretary of State of all of her legal powers to fight against the audit.

04:18

So it's been a bloodbath. It's been a real battle in Arizona. I have heard some of that. Yeah, those little leaks supposedly here or there, and I never investigated any of it.

04:28

But the weird thing to me, and I think probably for everyone is just why are they fighting this so hard, especially if they're supposedly

04:36

Republicans? If there's nothing wrong going on, why hide it so forcefully?

04:43

Yeah, the theory is among the people that have been watching it from state to state, is that we're not having a

04:50

Republican versus Democrat battle. We're having an establishment battle versus the people.

04:56

And the theory is, especially when you get into Georgia, there's been the same kind of pushback from the

05:02

Republican Secretary of State, Governor, and all of those. They have a CEO, which I don't know exactly what the

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CEO does of a state, but they're Republicans fighting. Obviously, there's been crickets from the

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Senate, Mitch McConnell, like where have they been? So the theory is, is that the

05:20

Republicans have been in on this too. And so that's why there hasn't been such pushback from the establishment class of the

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GOP and things like that. Which is disconcerting, if that's true, which it probably,

05:33

I think a lot of us kind of suspected that for a while. So there hasn't been actually any results then from the

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Arizona audit, which it seems to be the big one, right? Because there's some other audits going on too.

05:47

Yeah, so they are saying that they believe they'll be able to release the results in August, which is frustrating for somebody who just wants to know.

05:57

But when you think about it from a professional perspective, because the people that are auditing this, it's never been done before, so there's no credentials for it.

06:04

It's never been done in American history before, this kind of audit of ballots. We've never audited our elections, which is kind of weird all by itself.

06:11

But these people have been used by the NSA, they've been used by our intelligence agencies or military. So they're professional auditors, they're professional

06:18

IT people, no matter what the press says and trying to discredit them and all this stuff. So the professional way to do an audit is you finish it completely, and then you provide a report to your client, and then the client does what they wish with it, which in this case is the

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Arizona Senate. So from a politics perspective and from just wanting to know what happened, it's frustrating.

06:39

But from a professional and integrity perspective, I'm glad we don't know. Other question here, because a lot of people who don't know about the audits do know about the

06:51

Mike Lindell, I forget what he called his little, it wasn't even really a documentary, it was kind of like an extended news show.

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But he had all these... Infomercial. Yeah, well, he had all these people call in, and it was,

07:05

I mean, especially the end of that, it was like, what, two hours long. And at the end of it, he had this map of all the, and you call it, you just had a word for it, the package...

07:14

The packet captures. Packet captures. Yes, that's a technical term for it. Yeah, he didn't call it that,

07:19

I don't think. But so a lot of people have seen that. But so what can you say about that?

07:26

Whether, I mean, it sounds kind of convincing when you hear him, and you're like, oh, man, this totally makes sense.

07:32

But he hasn't actually released the primary source kind of proof, has he?

07:39

He has released sections of it. And what he announced a couple weeks ago is he, this month in July, is setting up three days,

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I believe it's in Minnesota, I'm not sure where it is, I'm not sure exact dates, but he's been announcing that he rented out a stadium.

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He spent $7 million, he said, on this so far of all this investigation and stuff.

08:02

So he's dropped tons of money. I mean, he's a billionaire from the MyPillow thing, but still $7 million, a lot of money. He rented out a stadium for three days and has invited anybody with the proper

08:12

ID credentials to come and see all of the packet captures that he has. So he hasn't given the files out for anybody who wants it.

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But because people have pushed back and said, hey, let's see what you have. So he's like, okay, fine,

08:29

I'll rent out a stadium, have all the press come, have all the people with their credentials, and I'll make copies of all the things I have.

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And everyone can just look at it physically, evaluate it as much as you can physically evaluate digital files.

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And then we'll go from there. So I mean, he's acting like he has it. He's acting like he knows what he's doing.

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He said he's had several different teams of investigators go to the physical locations of where these

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IP addresses are on both sides of the packet capture, like a rainbow. There's even some pictures of it out there.

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So I mean, it's do or die there. I don't know how you wiggle out of it. Either he has the stuff or he doesn't.

09:05

Well, what does it mean if he has this, if everything he said is true? I mean, this is like, I don't even know how to use, there's no word in the

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English language to express how serious this is, and how serious the Republicans should take it.

09:19

But it's hemming and hawing. And even the more Tea Party candidates, if you want to call them that,

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I don't know what we call them, the more populous candidates in the Senate, don't seem to be as motivated about this issue as other things, which yeah,

09:35

I think, sorry, I don't, I don't get it. I was just, you know, I don't get it either. And that's been actually a real frustrating thing.

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And again, I don't know when exactly we talked about it before, because when this was first coming out, November, December, I was kind of optimistic because I'm like, oh my gosh, there's all this proof.

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There's this evidence. There's these court filings. There's no way it's going to stand up.

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And then I started realizing, oh, nothing's happening. Nothing's happening. Nothing's happening. And I realized that we have this big problem that we have all this data information for the people who really want to see it.

10:07

I mean, even if you go up into Michigan, Matt DiPerno is an attorney who's actually fought this in court and it got dismissed like last month.

10:16

So it's been going on for this much time. I mean, they were finding modems in the computer equipment when they're not supposed to be connected to the internet at all.

10:24

But we have this problem where we don't have institutions to convert this to justice. No one's willing to do anything about it.

10:32

And that's the frustrating thing. We know it happened. We have the data. We have the evidence. But we don't have institutions.

10:40

The FBI is not going to do it. The DOJ is not going to do it. So I mean, that's kind of where we're at.

10:46

Okay. So this has to be fought on a very localized level, if fought at all. And we're seeing that happen.

10:52

We're seeing states that are changing the election laws, the Supreme Court. One of the reasons

10:57

I wanted to have this interview on the later part of the week is because yesterday, a

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Supreme Court hearing came out about Arizona. There was two election laws that were passed where you can no longer count a ballot that was turned in in the wrong county.

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So if you were in County A, you couldn't turn it into County B, which obviously there can be some big fraudulent potential there if you start sending ballots to multiple counties.

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And then also, there's no longer going to be allowed ballot harvesting, where third parties can't go and collect ballots for people, which could be blank ballots, could be ballots that you're telling people how to vote.

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I mean, that was a really big problem. So things are happening at the local level. I don't know if there's going to be an overturning of our prior election.

11:43

I hope so. I don't know if Trump's going to be in office. I hope so. Okay, well, I want to ask you about that.

11:48

Because this is something that I hear rumors and murmurs about.

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And supposedly, Trump has even, I've never seen any quote, primary quote, but people making rumors about Trump saying he might be back in office by August and this kind of stuff.

12:04

That was when Mike Lindell started that. That's his belief. He really thinks that. Okay. Yeah, he thinks the

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Supreme Court's going to after they see these packet captures is going to vote nine zero and put him back in office.

12:16

Okay, so we got to talk about this because, okay, we because because you already have a president who's been sworn in and certified by the

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Electoral College and all and the Supreme Court. I mean, that would seem to me, the

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Supreme Court being would be running roughshod all over all these states if that happened, which would be another greater problem.

12:37

So yeah, practicality speaking, since some people do think this, I mean, do you think that that's a possibility?

12:44

I think it's possible. I don't think it's probable. And the like,

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Michael Lindell isn't just saying this. Again, he's not just some crazy MyPillow guy, like we think of him as a character, character.

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He's actually quite a bit of a gangster if you look about his past, but he's really smart. I mean, he became a billionaire and he used to be a crack addict.

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So he's not like this elite in Yale or Harvard who had dad money and then just grew it.

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He came from being a crack addict to a billionaire. He's not stupid. He has 15 attorneys working for him on this by selling pillows, by selling pillows, that's right.

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He started out at like the street fairs or whatever, where you would go and just try to hawk your pillow at a booth.

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I mean, that's anyways. But he is cited and his attorneys have cited the precedent for it, where lower levels when there's been fraud proven that they replaced the person with the rightful winner.

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It's just never happened at the presidential level before. So he's basing that on what has been done in the past for lower level elections and saying, why wouldn't it be done if it's proven that China and other countries were switching votes for Biden from Donald Trump, which we've seen on CNN and stuff.

13:59

I'm sure you've seen the videos where the numbers drop for Trump and increase for Biden. I mean, we've seen it because it's all connected.

14:07

The machines report to whoever was calculating the votes and then publishing it on TV.

14:13

You saw it happen in real time too. Well, there was no doubt in my mind after the election that Trump was the clear winner.

14:20

I mean, you have eight out of the 10 bellwether counties that determined the election went to Trump.

14:27

But it's just what five different metropolitan areas and five different swing states decided the election.

14:36

It's been frustrating because I was really motivated about this when it seemed like there was a glimmer of hope that maybe somebody,

14:43

I think what Steve Bannon was saying, if one state falls, they all fall. That was kind of the theory is if you just get

14:49

Arizona or Georgia was the big one, I think, Georgia, Michigan to kind of do something, then it would snowball.

14:57

They're still saying that. Okay. They are. I haven't been watching them. So in Arizona, everyone's saying it's the gold standard, which

15:05

I don't know if it's a gold standard as far as it can't be improved upon, but it's definitely been the most thorough. The other kinds of audits that they've claimed that they've had, like the

15:14

Democrats, oh, we did it. It was like a logic accuracy test. And there's no point in going into that.

15:19

But it basically wasn't anything close to as comprehensive as what we're seeing now. 10 other state delegations have been sent to Arizona to see it.

15:27

And that's been in the last month or two. So there is some movement. There are people pushing and calling their legislatures to get things done.

15:34

And when this does come out, I'm assuming they're going to let it come out. I don't think the Senate wouldn't just hide this stuff.

15:41

If it is as big as we're thinking it's going to be, I mean, that's going to compel other states as well. And even if we don't get

15:48

Trump in the White House again, not that I think he's the savior, but I just think it's justice and it's the right thing to do.

15:54

And it's definitely better than Biden. Even if we don't get him in office, there are numbers of senators that are impacted by this too.

16:04

Which if we could just get back the Senate, even if it's people that are rhinos, establishment or whatever, as long as it's not the communist

16:12

Democrats that have all three branches of government, that would be a victory too until 2022 and 2024.

16:19

So I mean, there's not just one win. It's not do or die. There's several different outcomes that could be beneficial from this.

16:25

Some of the people who've said that this is scary, if the Supreme Court would weigh in on something like this, because what's the

16:33

Supreme Court going to do now? Decide every election? This is not the role of the Supreme Court, which I kind of agree with.

16:39

But one of the things that I've thought is this is kind of a post -constitutional country almost at this point.

16:45

And the other thing is this is an act of war if what Mike Lindell is saying is true.

16:51

And that's something that I think I haven't heard a lot of people talk about either when they reference this. If China really did this, if other countries were really influencing our election, that's actually not something to be taken lightly.

17:04

That's a wartime kind of thing. Correct. So anyway. Especially when you add on to that the bioweapon in the lab, like even if they didn't release it on purpose.

17:14

I mean, there's been several acts of war that the Chinese have done, if this is true as well. I mean, they killed 500 ,000

17:19

Americans. If it's incompetence of doctors incubating people or just not knowing how to treat it right away, like whatever the reason,

17:26

I mean, China has been aggressive against us. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's very true. I'm actually waiting for I feel like I'm going to wake up one morning and I'm going to turn on the news or look at my phone and it's going to say

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China invades Taiwan. Yeah. And we're just going to back off. That's like a scenario that's run through my head many times.

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Anyway, it's very scary. It is. It is. It's not like in Afghanistan or in Iraq. They manufacture a majority of the microchips for the world.

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So if they take over Taiwan and China no longer wants to send us microchips, we don't have trucks anymore.

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We don't have computers anymore. We don't have cell phones anymore. It's like a very major deal. I'm not one of those people that feels like we need to defend the world.

18:06

And I don't think we should be in the Middle East and things like that. But if Taiwan falls, it's big trouble.

18:13

Yeah. Yeah. So we're talking about things that are connected to a lot other things here. The election is all connected.

18:19

It's all connected. That's right. So Arizona is August. There's an audit going on,

18:26

I think, in Michigan, right? If I'm not mistaken. There wasn't an audit in Michigan.

18:32

There was the Matt DiPerno court case when Antrim County, which was a county where 5 ,000 ballots flipped for Biden.

18:38

And because it was a rural county, it was 85 % or something crazy,

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Trump Republican County forever. So everyone just knew it wasn't right. Then the Dominion voting systems and other people were like, oh, it's human error.

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But then that's what the lawsuit was that's been going through the courts. And it's not done. They're going to be appealing it.

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So it's not over there either. But that's where they did all the research and found the modems in the machines, found a bunch of the fraud and things like that.

19:09

And that evidence has been given to some of the Michigan state senators. But again,

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Detroit is a very corrupt place. Michigan's a very corrupt place. And a lot of the establishment Republicans don't want to do anything there.

19:20

So we'll see. I'm not hopeful there. I'm hopeful. Georgia seems like there's momentum. I don't know if it's going to happen.

19:26

I'm hoping it happens there. There's a court case there where they are able to examine 140 ,000 ballots, which is the margin of victory for Trump and Purdue, one of the senators.

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If those turn out to be fraudulent ballots, which it seems like they are, that will stir the hornet's nest.

19:46

Pennsylvania has momentum as well. And then that's where it gets interesting. If three states fall, if just those three states fall, both presidential candidates would have 269 electoral votes.

19:59

So technically Biden wouldn't have been the winner anymore. Neither Trump, but not Biden either. Yeah. Well, then it would have been thrown to the

20:06

Congress, right? To the House. And then they do the one vote per state. I don't know exactly how that works.

20:13

And then Trump wins. Yeah. That would happen. But Nancy Pelosi is the head of the

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House. So who knows what tricks she would play. That's true. Yeah, there's a lot of barriers to try to get to that point, which

20:25

I don't think that's ever going to happen. It is just me. I don't see that ever practically happening or the

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Supreme Court weighing in and doing. I mean, they had opportunities when it was a possibility to do something and they neglected their opportunities.

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So I just don't see. And I don't think we have a conservative Supreme Court, as so many people say.

20:48

Roberts is not conservative. Kavanaugh is bushy at best.

20:53

He's a bush at best. Right. So at this point, what can people do? I mean, to me, this sounds like a clearing call to get involved at the local level, because you never want to have this happen again, especially if you're in those swing states.

21:04

But even if you're not, become election inspectors, I don't know, get involved with your board of elections and on the local level in your town.

21:12

Yeah. Amen to that. And before I say what we can do, because there are things we can do, I want to say why we need to do it, because we're talking about speculating what could happen if we prove this stuff.

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And we don't know. But this is a principle that I want us all to know and embrace, not just with politics, but with everything.

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When you know what the right thing is to do, you need to fight for it regardless of the results.

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That's how you become successful. Successful people don't only fight when they know the outcome or know what's going to happen if they win.

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Sometimes you just got to fight and see where the chips fall afterwards. And so that's what we need. We need to have that spirit again in America for fighting for what is right, because it's the right thing to do, not because we think we're going to win or have a good chance or know what's going to happen.

21:56

Who knows? There could be a plethora of things. I mean, if this results in us just getting election reform so it can never happen again,

22:03

I would count that as a major victory and worth winning. So with that in mind, what can you do?

22:08

There's something called a precinct committeeman that is incredibly powerful in the GOP.

22:14

Before people were pushing this, about half of the seats weren't full. They were empty. And the other half were split between conservatives that were really conservatives and, oh, you have a cat, and GOP establishment kind of people.

22:29

So you can get involved and become a precinct committeeman, which are the people that pick who runs in the

22:34

GOP. It's actually a really powerful position. And then some other things that you can do is start praying for, contacting, or running for mayor, sheriff.

22:46

Positions that control the guns at the local level are really important, especially with the different things that are coming down our lane.

22:54

There might be lockdowns again. Who knows how much they build up this Delta variant? There's different things like that.

23:02

But just start locally and grow from there. We're seeing the power of that from COVID lockdowns.

23:07

Different counties had more strict restrictions, certain cities, states like Florida where I live with DeSantis.

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We're remembering how important local offices are, and a lot of cases are far more important than the presidential race.

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So get involved locally. And if you don't want to run personally, contacting them, letting them know what you care about, that you're praying for them.

23:30

It doesn't even have to be controversial. You could just let them know, hey, these are the things I'm concerned about. Hey, these are the ways that I think you should act or vote or whatever, things like that.

23:38

We haven't been doing that. We've been neglecting the responsibility that God has given us in the public sphere for far too long.

23:46

Hey, man, my cat was even motivated by that. She wanted to get involved. That's weird.

23:51

She's never done that before. So yeah, these are some practical measures. And I appreciate that because people just getting frustrated sitting in front of the

24:00

TV or whatever isn't the way to go. And there are things, and all politics is local.

24:07

Ultimately, I mean, your local town, your local county, your local state, those are the things that are going to determine your life really more than anything else.

24:15

And we see that right now in Florida, right? Florida is, I mean, it's like, Governor Ron DeSantis is just contradicting everything coming down from the

24:26

Biden administration, or, you know, just progressive policies in general, and creating kind of like a haven there almost.

24:33

So anyway, these are some of things you can do. And Matt, I appreciate you taking your time and telling us about some of this.

24:39

And I admit, I have not been following it as closely as you have. So it's just, it's very needed and very helpful.

24:47

Yeah, thanks for having me on. Yeah, my pleasure. So where can people go then? Do you have your own personal website?

24:53

No, I don't. I mean, you can email me Matt at howtobuildatent .com. That's my business consulting website now.

25:00

And then you can just find me on Phi Lapis Network on Reform Jellicle. They do Roblox. All right, perfect.