Erik Smith of Dime Payments talks Paypal, being a closet Presby, & the reflection of God in children

Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between, broadcasting from an undisclosed location, Dead Men Walking starts now. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking podcast, continuing our series live from Fight Lab Feast in Knoxville, Tennessee.

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Dime Payments and Christian Business Infrastructure

We have a very interesting guest on here. Heard him talking yesterday, stopped by his booth. It's Eric Smith. Eric, how are you, sir? Great, Greg. Great to be on here. So tell me a little bit about your company, because that's what drew me in when I heard you talking.

I wanted to hear about what you do. Give us the elevator pitch and how you can help brothers and.

Sisters in the Lord. Yeah, great. So I work for Dime. Now, Dime, we've got a couple smaller companies within the Dime umbrella of brands. Okay, so the one you probably heard us mentioned on the CrossPolitik podcast with is Dime Payments.

So we do payment processing. Essentially what that means is if you run a business, whether it's in person, whether it's online, whether you send invoices, you need to get paid. It's an important part of business.

We like getting paid, right? Yeah. So the way we operate is we help businesses get paid via credit card, whether that's an invoice in person, again, e-commerce, or via ACH. Okay. And so we're a payment processor.

We've got a couple of platforms that we've developed, but we also, you know, we can work on pretty much any third party gateway. So Authorize .net, whether it's FluidPay, NMI, there's a ton of gateways out there.

You know, we can get off in the weeds a little bit on that. But the bottom line is, as a processor, we want to see Christian businesses and conservative businesses thrive. Yeah, there's certainly the threat of cancel culture from some of the bigger brands that you've seen like PayPal and Stripe.

They've got political incentive. Sure.

They're rewarding. Your Kickstarters even, too. Not in your realm, but in.

That same, you know, trying to get paid. Yeah. And so they, you know, if you're PayPal, they get PR, a boon in PR every time they shut somebody down, right? Wow. And so if you're a conservative, if you're a Christian, if you're going to say anything that might be controversial to the standard worldview.

Of... Oh, you mean a woman is a woman? Or men can't get pregnant? Exactly.

Controversial, right? Anything that might get you banned from Twitter. PayPal is happy to shut you down to get brownie points with their investor class. Yeah. And, you know, on social media and other places.

So what we do now, I would love to say we're a competitor to Stripe or PayPal. We're not that big. Sure. But we do have... One day. Yeah, maybe one day. We have merchants who operate in person. They have a point of sale system where they're taking credit cards for the things they sell, whether it's a coffee shop, gas station, apparel store.

I mean, you name it. Roofing companies, things like that. Anybody that needs to get paid. Yeah. We make sure the money on the customer's credit card goes through the system and winds up in your bank account.

So pretty straightforward. And, you know, we want to see, as I said, Christian businesses thrive. Yeah. And so we love coming to events like this. We ourselves are a Christian-owned, Christian-operated company.

Now, we work with anyone. So, you know, if you want to have a donut shop and you're a Buddhist, we'll help you sell some Buddhist donuts, right? Yeah. We're not gonna work with adult stores, you know.

Sure. We have limits of who we'll process with. Okay. So you bring up.

Something that I don't think a lot of people really even thought about until maybe the last few years of you have these things of, oh, a front-facing Christian business. Let's say a customer-facing.

But then you go, oh, everything's digitized now. So then the infrastructure, and you saw that how Amazon can flip a switch and servers go off and you no longer have this service or that service, or you have banking institutions or whatever.

So you're part of that kind of secondary infrastructure to where we need believers in that space, to where a PayPal is not. They're a pagan company by all means. And like you just said, they'd be happy to cancel you.

You could be the greatest Christian online business making all kinds of money. But if that money's not coming to you and your hose is shut off through PayPal, that cash flow hose, well, now you're in trouble.

And you kind of fill that spot, too, going, hey, lookit, we're gonna make sure you get paid no matter what your beliefs are. That's right. And now I.

Don't want to make it as too big of a boogeyman. Let's be realistic. Oh, I.

Will. We like a little conspiracy on this podcast. They're all coming for us.

No, I'm just kidding. I don't have a tinfoil hat. I have a tinfoil plate in the back of my head. Do you really? I'm with you. Well, I should. No, what I will say, though, is most payment processing companies, and let's even go higher.

So the banks, the payment networks that everybody operates on, like Elevon and Tesis First Data, some of these that you've never heard of. You don't need to know who these things are. They don't care.

They just want your money. So they don't care if you're pro-Donald Trump, anti-Hillary Clinton, or if you're pro-Bern. They don't care. They just want money. The cancel culture piece only comes into play when their name is on your products or on your interface.

So again, like PayPal, you don't check out with PayPal without seeing the PayPal button. So where this can come into play is with those players. I just want to make it clear. If you've got a processing company that's helping you out and they're giving you great rates, I think we can meet and match and better their rate and their service.

But it doesn't mean you're in threat of getting canceled just because you're not using us. But boy howdy, I wouldn't trust Stripe and PayPal to do that. I'll just.

Imply that so we can send more business to you. If you do not use Eric Smith and his company. You might not. I'm just kidding. That's right. Oh man. So yeah, we're at the Fight, Laugh, Feast rally. We're hearing all kinds of good, I mean good, good sermons essentially.

I call them sermons. You can call them keynotes or whatever. So what have you been into recently? So what is, because I love asking guests this, because every time I do they're into something different.

You know, I'll have one guy going, oh man I'm going through Mark right now and I didn't see this. Or boy I'm in the Old Testament. Or I'm into, you know, Puritans right now. So as someone, I caught you talking to Jared Longshore who was on yesterday.

And I snuck into the conversation and started eavesdropping. And I just really appreciated the passionate conversation you two were having. So with Eric Smith, what's going on right now? What are we into?

What are we studying? Yeah. We got to do a little theology here. It is a theology podcast.

Man, I love theology more than I love payment processing. My man. No, I've known Jared for a long time. And you know, I've had a personal trajectory, theologically at least, similar to his. I grew up Southern Baptist, raised that way, trained at Southern Seminary, graduate of that institution.

Very thankful for my time there. Very thankful for the Baptist men who poured into my life. Yeah. Shaped me. I have also recently come to the conviction of, well let's just say I'm a closet Presbyterian.

I'm coming out here on the podcast though. Oh, there we go. You never had anybody come out on your podcast? No. I'm coming out, baby. All right. So the Lord's been showing me as I've read several things.

I've read and followed writings by and sermons by Presbyterian men that I've loved for a long time. Particularly Doug Wilson. Yeah. And several others. Ironically, working through Hebrews. So I was preparing some sermons to preach through Hebrews on the warning passages.

And in the warning passages, you've got a couple of options for who are these people that apostatize. Okay. Are they people who were never really believers, but they got kind of close? Are they, I mean, I have Arminian friends who would say no, these were born-again Christians who lost their salvation.

You're right. They fell away. Which we don't believe here. No. Not at all. But then, you know, the Baptist position advocated by Charles Spurgeon, advocated by my professors at Southern Seminary, would say, well, this is a hypothetical category.

Okay. That it's those, it's a warning against a hypothetical apostasy, right? They've tasted the good gift. They've, all these things. But they're, this category of people doesn't really exist because it's merely meant to say, hey, don't fall away.

Believe. Because if you do fall away, you'll perish. Oh, but wink, wink. Yeah. This is just the means by which God's.

Gonna keep you from falling away. I mean, that sounds good, but it sounds a little shallow.

Well, I don't think that's what the author of Hebrews is trying to say at all. I think he has in mind particular persons who were involved in the covenant community of believers, the visible church. Okay.

Who then apostatized. They, in this case, went back to Judaism, I think. Yeah. So, what do you do with that? How do we say these are people who have fallen away, who had the substance? I think what he's arguing there is they had the substance of the new covenant.

They were members of the new covenant, and yet, you know, we affirm perseverance of the saints. So, we can say, were they truly of us? I mean, verse John gives us some indication that those who go out from us were never really of us.

Yeah. And yet, there's a sense in which they were in the church. Right. They were in the covenant community. So, that's a Cliff Notes version. I.

Encourage your listeners to do more investigation. So, is that, you said you were studying through Hebrews. You saw those, and that's what kind of started the process, or had you been thinking about that for a while, or wrestling with that?

Because I asked Jared the same thing. Was this, because the only reason I asked is because we have a similar trajectory. I was a closeted Calvinist for eight years. Okay. Right. So, grew up in almost like a legalistic fundamental Baptist, and then about eight or nine swung into this Bethel kind of Hillsong-y.

Oh. So, I had two extremes, right? And then said the sinner's prayer at seven, but the Lord saved me at 24, and started to read the actual Bible and not put tradition on it. And I was like, oh my gosh, I think I'm this crazy Calvinist.

And it took a long time to even say that, you know, in the Reformed position. And just now started attending about a, well not even that, eight months ago, a Reformed Presbyterian Church. Okay. It was in kind of non-denominational Baptist light, I guess you would say.

Yeah. That was another realization, too. When I was like 16 or 17, I went, all non-denominational churches are basically just Baptist. They're Baptist. They don't like the label. It's marketing. It's just pure marketing.

So, I understand that. So, was that journey for you a long one? Was it a realization moment, or was it, it has been building, and okay, this verse did it for me and put me over the top, or was.

It a journey conviction? I think it was for me a crescendo, and I'm still learning and growing. I'm still trying to learn as much as I can, and I think all students of the Bible, all Christians should be that way their entire lives.

I have kind of an open hand. Lord, if someone can show me from your Word that what I believe is wrong, I want to believe what the Bible teaches. Yeah. So, it's kind of been a crescendo for me. So, when I was 15, I had a pastor who was a Calvinist, and he exposed me to Charles Spurgeon, Arthur Pink, several others, and so I became a Calvinist from reading Romans 9 in his house when I was 15, and from there, he introduced me to works by guys like Kenneth Gentry, Gary DeMar, so I became a post-millennialist when I was about 16, 17.

Oh, you were cool before it was cool to be cool, man. Well, let me tell you, my friends at high school loved me. I was great at parties. I told you this story. I was dating a girl in high school, and you and I were talking earlier, but I'll share it for your listeners.

No, please do. You know, you've got the mug, wine-em, dine-em, Romans 9-em, so I went on a date with a girl in high school that I was just smitten by. She was lovely, gorgeous, and you know, she was pretty into me, too.

Yeah. It wasn't much to look at, but she, you know, she was into me for whatever reason, so we're eating Chick-fil-A, and I just got the bright idea that, you know, she might be wife material. Maybe I should start talking about Romans 9.

Yeah, we better start. So, I asked her, have you ever read Romans 9? She goes, well, I'm sure I've read it. I've read the Bible. So, I just start walking through. I pulled out my Bible. I just start walking through Paul's argument about election, and I could see her falling out of love with me.

Just as you're talking. Just dropping down her face.

Oh, Ioana, what the providence of the Lord. She wasn't meant to be. She wasn't the.

Right one. No, not at all. Are you married now? Do you have kids or anything? I am. I am married, and when I met my wife, she was already a Calvinist. Oh, look at that. So, that's good. Now, I'm married.

Got three little girls. Awesome. They're great. The Lord's been good to me, and good to my family. Yeah, yeah. So, to get back to your question with the crescendo, yeah. So, how did I come to it? So, you know, some of the pieces were, I would say, in place.

I was familiar with Covenant theology. Just when I went to college, I hung out with the guys in the RUF. So, I hung out with Presbyterians. I agreed with them on election. I agreed with them on eschatology.

I just thought, you guys are silly. You're dunking babies, man. Yeah, sprinkling them, yeah. So, but as I gained more maturity, I read Calvin. I read the Institutes, and I thought, man, these are some good arguments, but I just wasn't convinced.

Sure. And so, I think it took becoming, in some weird ways, I think it took becoming a father. Come on. That's where I was gonna go, yeah. Yeah, it took me thinking through my children. I have a seven-year-old who loves Jesus, and I talked to her about the Lord, as do my other daughters, and you know, there's never been a time when she would not give a profession of faith.

And so, just wrestling with, how do I know if she's sincere? I don't know if she's genuine. You know, I'm not sure, and I had kind of been in the nine marks side of things of, hey, you need to really make sure it needs to be their faith.

Wait until they're 18 to baptize them. I just don't think that's the example from Scripture. First of all, the example. Yeah. You know, Ethiopian eunuch. How long did Philip stick around to test his faith and see his fruit?

Right. You have Simon the Magician who professes faith. He's baptized, brought into the church, and then, hey, whoops, he's got some problems. We need to exercise church discipline, but they didn't wait five years to baptize him.

Right. So, as I was thinking through that, still as a Baptist, you know, wrestling with that as a father, and I thought, you know, who am I to withhold this from my children? Now, that's in and of itself not an argument for paedo-baptism, or for including your children in the covenant, but it certainly had bells going off in my head of, what am I doing as a father here?

What do I really.

Believe about my children? Yeah, that was the same for me. I mean, I had questions. So, I was the pesky kid that would ask really dumb questions to, like, youth pastors and pastors, and I remember I was 13, and I said, you know, why do people go to hell?

And he said, well, for unbelief, and I said, well, isn't unbelief like a sin? Yeah. Didn't Jesus die for all sins? Yeah. Why isn't everyone in heaven? Now, I'm 13. I didn't know I was talking about limited atonement or any of those things, and he just looked at me and went, oh, good one, and walked away, and I was like, you know, so I also had these questions when I was younger, and I went, so I said the sinner's prayer at seven, and then I got baptized when I was 13.

Once again, Baptist light, so we didn't have to wait until 18. It was a profession of faith, and I went, well, what the heck was going on in those seven years in between? Why did I, I was sound enough in my church to, okay, if you're seven and you say something, you can, but oh, no, you have to wait until you really mean it to be baptized, and it always confused me, right?

And then when you have kids, you go, my four-year-old, I said something like, oh, well, he's the greatest of all time. I was talking about a sports figure. My four-year-old, at the time, he goes, daddy, Christ is the greatest.

We don't want to say anything wrong about him, and I went, okay, so now I have a four-year-old that understands that concept. Who am I to, should I run out, and we didn't get you baptized, right? You know, so it was like having children and seeing, no, they're invited into the covenant, into the, you know, into the family of adopted sons and daughters of God, and that's kind of what, obviously, the Bible as well, too, you know, go baptize you and your family.

I'm sure there were some kids in that family when he told them that, but it was a very long process for me as well, too, because I'm not the kind of guy that just wants to jump to the next theological fad.

We see that a lot now, I think. Oh, this guy, I really like him. He's getting popular. I'm going to that camp, right, or I'm going to this camp. I'm in the Durban camp or the Wilson camp or the White camp or the, you know, they're just jumping all over the place, and it's like, well, no, we have to be grounded in the Word of God first, right, before anything else, before anyone famous or that we look up to says it, but yeah, I think, and you might, you can tell me what you think since you have three little girls.

Becoming a father has been one of the biggest things that actually bring the scriptures to life for me because there's so many comparisons. You immediately go, okay, this is why God used the analogy as father for him, because he knew we would understand that.

He's so much more than a father, obviously, right, and God is spirit and all those things, and not, you know, not a man up in the sky somewhere, but to use that analogy, we start to understand it because when you have children, you go, oh, this is what that verse means.

That's exactly right. You know, I can't believe the number of times, or I can't count the number of times I've heard people say God reveals Himself as Father so that we'll think of our earthly fathers, you know, and I just think, well, I don't find that compelling at all.

I think it's the reverse. God reveals Himself as Father because when you're holding your daughter for the first time as a newborn, and you're looking at her, and you're thinking, I never knew I could love anybody as much as this little girl, and then you reflect, that's the way my parents loved me.

Oh, I've been a terrible son. Absolutely, and then I think about the Lord. He reveals Himself as Father, and Jesus said, you know, which of your sons, if he asked for a loaf of bread, you don't give him a stone, and so He even uses the comparison of you are a father, how much more so your father.

That's what I mean. That's the analogy. Yeah, so you hit the nail on the head there. Yeah, so good. I think it's unfortunate, too. I'll get on a little bit of a soapbox. Let's go. I think it's unfortunate that we have so many young people.

I'm 37. I guess I'm a millennial by definition, but young people in their 20s who want to put off marriage, they want to put off family, they want to have a dog. They call themselves a fur mom or a fur dad.

It's like you are missing out. A, I would argue you're in disobedience, but that's another topic for another day. That's another podcast episode. I think you're in disobedience to the Lord to put off having children intentionally, but secondly, you're just shortchanging yourself of joy, of gaining wisdom as well.

Oh, 100%. I mean, having children, being a parent forces you to go to the Scripture, forces you to evaluate aspects of life, seasons of life, and gain wisdom in a way that if all you've got is a couple of dogs, you're never going to understand the Bible as well as somebody who has had to wrestle with aspects of wisdom.

Now, of course, I want to be charitable and kind. There are a lot of people who want to have children, who want to be married, and I'm not, of course, trying to be unkind to them or uncharitable. I pray that everyone's.

Able to find a spouse. No, but to your point really quick, you see that within some churches to where, hey, we're going to go do our thing first and enjoy ourselves, and financially we don't want the burden, and we're going to get our dog and go travel and this and that, and follow the secular culture of demeaning children and having a family because the secular culture basically says that's the stupidest thing you could do.

Stop having kids. Stop polluting the environment with your kids. Kill them before they're born. It's a culture of death and no family and no children. In some churches, Christians are adopting it in a lighter manner.

They could be very well pro-life, but they just go, well, I don't feel like it's a mandate or it's a very important or top-of-the-line, and it's like, no, the very first commandment we are given is to go forth and multiply.

That's exactly right, and it really is a bigger theological question. It's not a matter of, as theologians would say, adiaphora, the lesser things. It's not a matter of that. If you've got a vision for how Christ is conquering the world and ruling the world now, making the world His footstool, we are to disciple the nations, that is a bigger task than our very common view in evangelical churches, which is, I've got my job over here.

I've got my wife and my no more than two kids here in our house in the suburbs, and I watch the NFL on the weekend, and I give my money to the church, and I just want to know Jesus. It's all about a personal relationship with Jesus.

Well, yes, God is a person. We want a relationship with Him, but that is not what we're here to do. That whole way of life of, I want to be happy, my wife be fulfilled, and we'll have a little bit of church here, and just be a good parent, that's such a shallow way of life, and some, I mean, for many, like you said, they don't even want children.

They just want to go play and prolong adolescence.

It's almost, and like I said, I don't want to be too harsh, but it's almost underwritten with an act of selfishness when I see it most of the time, and I'm not really trying, it might not even be on purpose, right, but it is deep down, it's an act of, well, I want to do what I want to do, or even a lack of trust, which is pride.

You know, financially, I can't, and it's like, well, do you believe the Lord takes care of the sparrows so much more He'll take care of you? Now, I'm not saying be unwise with your financial decisions and throw all caution to the wind, and you know, oh, I don't have to work.

I may have kids, and you know, whatever, and God will provide. We use wisdom and discernment in our lives, but to use that as an excuse, too, it's tough, man, to see professing believers just kind of, ugh, with, you know, just give in to the culture in that area and go, no, I'd rather do what I want to do, and like you.

Said, missing out on so much when you have children. I mean, really, that's what it is. Children are wealth. They are a blessing. They're not a burden. They are not a cost. They are wealth, really. You know, I will say one thing where I have noticed this, and I have to be on guard against this.

This is something my wife and I talk about all the time. Children can be difficult. I mean, they do take your time. They take your energy. They require money, but one thing we try to be careful of with our children is we never want them to have the mindset that they are a burden to us, or that they're a dream, because they are a joy, maybe not in every moment.

One thing I have seen from Christian parents, especially those, you know, it's easy to throw stones at the previous generation, but, you know, the generation who are in their 50s and 60s now, I remember my parents, maybe not so much my parents, but the parents of my friends, the parents of other family members, we'll just say that, would say things like, oh my goodness, I've always got to drive you everywhere.

Why am I always running? You cost so much. You just wore a new pair of shoes. Why am I buying you more shoes? So when you hear that as a teenager, or a child growing up for 15, 18 years, that all you are is an inconvenience to your parents, when you become 20, you're like, I don't want to do that.

You don't want to get married and have kids, because all you heard for 20 years is what a nuisance you were, what a burden you were, what an inconvenience you were. I think we as Christian parents have a duty to our children to communicate very clearly that they are a joy, they are a blessing, and that the best things in our life come from our household.

That way they aspire and want that. I know many people who are willingly childless, intentionally childless in their 20s and 30s, because they say, all I heard growing up was that children were a nuisance and a bother.

My parents took every opportunity to remind me of that. Yeah, or you cost so much, or you know. And so, you know, you've got a lot of people who are boomers, and Gen X, who want grandkids, and they're frustrated with their adult kids, and they don't have grandkids.

It's like, it's.

Your fault. Yeah, you might have been part of the problem, right? So how old are.

Your three, if you don't mind saying? Yeah, they're 12, 10, and 7. Okay, so they're.

Old enough to where the Lord is also using them to reflect maybe some of your bad tendencies back at you? I think the Lord uses children for that as well, and you go, I'm so frustrated in your head, and you go, oh, that's because that's me talking to me, and now I need to curb that in me, and also train them.

You know what I mean? Does he do that to you, too? Just not me? Every day, yeah. Oh my goodness, I have an extremely, my eldest is extremely literal, and I am extremely literal, and my wife has told me that, and goes, God, do you have to debate and argue, and it's not, right?

And I find my 13-year-old doing that, and I go, Lord, you're good, because now you've, and I just, one day I went, gosh, Penelope,.

I'm sorry, I'm saying her name. You have a daughter named Penelope? Yeah. I do, too.

Awesome. Penelope, she's so literal sometimes, and my wife goes, yeah, yeah, I've been living with it for quite a while. I've known you since you were 18, but it's so nice that even in those, so for me, even in those times of frustration, there is a, the Lord is gracious enough to make it a teaching moment, not only for me, but possibly for my daughter and my sons as well.

Yeah. I mean, even that blessing. Very rarely can you get a reflection of yourself unless it's two flesh come together, you know, for a new flesh, so it's like, even that is a pretty neat thing that the Lord does for you in children.

It is. I didn't know this was gonna be a.

Kid, a children's podcast, but who cares? Well, you know, one thing we've also done in our household is when, so I have three, so when one sister gets mad at the other, which happens from time to time, believe it or not, I can use my own sinfulness as a way to mediate.

So for example, I have a daughter who loves to joke and cut up and pick and be really intentionally annoying all the time. She loves it. Well, that was me as a kid, and if I'm being honest, that's me as a dad sometimes.

Sure, yeah. You know, I'm always picking and poking and prodding, giving them a hard time, taking their words literal, you know, some of the things you talk about. Yeah. And so when one of the sisters gets mad at this sister, I say, hey, you know, she said X, Y, Z to you, and that's got you mad.

Yes, I can't stand it. She's always joking around and said, yeah, do I ever act that way? She says, well, yeah, Daddy, you do. I said, you never get mad at me. You show me grace and forgiveness. I was good.

Oh, well, that's different, Daddy. I'm like, no, it's not. No, it's not. You can forgive her. Yeah. No, that's good. I've got the same sins as her and you forgive me so you can forgive her too. All right.

Well,.

It's been so good on the Greg and Eric Perfect Dad podcast. We just gave you all our advice. No, I'm just kidding. Eric, why don't you throw it out one more time? We'll make sure we link it up when it goes live where they can see you, support you, even if they want to find you on social media and support your business.

Yeah. So our business is Dime Payments. You can go to dimepayments .com. If you're listening to us here, go to dimepayments .com. There's a button at the top where you can tell us about yourself. Get in touch with us so I can find out about your business, how you need to take payments.

Also, I didn't mention this, but I should. We also have a full-service bookkeeping and accounting firm. So you may be thinking, hey, I don't have anything to do with business or yeah, I'm just an office manager, maybe even at your church.

We love, and our specialty really in that area is bookkeeping and accounting for churches and nonprofit orgs. It can be difficult to do that in-house if you're a church. Maybe your church is growing.

Maybe you need to downsize. Maybe somebody's retiring. So that you can find us there at www .dimeaccounting .com. Awesome. Eric, it was so good having you on. I know.

One of the greatest things about these conferences is you meet brothers and sisters in the Lord. I think everyone I've been to, I'm still in contact with some of those people. They become long-term friends, and I think we're going to be the same.

It was so nice talking to you, brother. That'd be great. Guys, thanks for listening to another episode of Deadman Walking Podcast. As always, God bless. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Deadman Walking Podcast for full video podcast episodes and clips or email us at deadmenwalkingpodcast at gmail .com.