June 13, 2016 Show with Mack Tomlinson on “The Lives & Legacies of Leonard Ravenhill and Conrad Murrell”

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Good afternoon.

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

And the rest of humanity who are living on the planet Earth.

Listing via live streaming.

This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron.

Wishing you all a happy Monday on this 13th day of June

2016.

I'm so delighted to have back on the program.

My brother and friend pastor Mac Tomlinson who is the pastor of Providence

Chapel in Denton, Texas, and we are going to be discussing the lives

and legacies of two Brethren in Christ who are now on the other side of heaven.

They are in glory with Christ for eternity the first being Leonard Ravenhill

and the second being Conrad Murrell and perhaps our brother

Mac Tomlinson can correct me on the pronunciation of Conrad's last name.

I'm not sure I have it, right but in addition to Discussing the lives and legacies

of these two great men of faith we're also going to be promoting the books the biographies

that Mac Tomlinson has written about each of them and we will be also

Discussing the Fellowship Conference New England in Portland, Maine that's going to be held

in August from the 4th through the 6th on the theme the impossible and

That is something that I may even try to get to from Pennsylvania.

To attend myself.

God willing.

I was reading about the lineup and hearing some Sermon clips by the

some of the speakers and it looks like a really powerful event, but let me without further ado.

Welcome my friend pastor Mac Tomlinson back to iron sharpens iron radio.

Thanks Chris always nice to be with you and in studio with me is my co -host Reverend

buzz Taylor hello again and

Pastor Mac before we even go into our Topic at hand.

Why don't you let our listeners know something about Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas?

Some of our listeners may not have heard you the last couple of times you were on the program.

Baptistic Church in Denton, Texas, which is 30 miles north of Dallas our

website Benton org and We

are a church that is Serious about loving the Lord Jesus Christ loving

his word them and

missions.

To find us Providence Chapel in Denton, you're very welcome

and.

And I just walk by the way.

Go ahead.

I was just going to give your website.

It's Providence Denton org Providence Denton org if you could.

I'm sorry.

Continue.

Two things I would mention by way of correction.

Conrad Merle's last name is pronounced Merle.

Okay, and he is not yet in heaven.

He is yet to go to

heaven so.

Well, I hope I didn't shock anybody And who Was listening live and didn't know

that Conrad was still with us.

I So sorry about that, but Leonard Raven Leonard Ravenhill is certainly

in heaven now is not yet not not living among us any longer here on earth

before we go into their lives, which is the main theme of

The discussion today if you could I'd like you to respond because it just

happened Yesterday morning technically What

has been?

Identified on the news as the largest mass murder by shooting in

The nation's history and in fact, I'm gonna have to do a little investigation because I think that may be

incorrect.

I believe it's possible that the Mountain Meadows massacre that took

place in the 19th century ironically on September 11th That

may be actually a Larger mass murder.

I just don't know if well, first of all, it was a larger mass murder Numerically that is certain

but I don't know if they were all executed by by gun But it

was many of them were executed by gun and it was a larger group of people that the Mormon

the Mormons enacted upon innocent pioneers

Crossing through the Utah Territory at the time they were executed by command of Brigham Young and

some honest Mormons Admit that today, but others stick with Brigham

Young's story that this was a rogue act of his son -in -law who did

this without the authority and permission of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints,

but having said that Yesterday as everyone no doubt knows

who is listening a Homosexual nightclub or a nightclub

frequented by homosexuals was Invaded by a

individual claiming to be Muslim and acting with the

Blessing of Isis at least according to what he said and what they are taking credit

for and over 50 lives were taken and

Many others injured and There is all kinds of reaction About

this going on in the media and I'd like you if you could at

least to start off the program as a pastor and Since it's this is really fresh on the heels of

that Horrific incident if you could just give your own comments about what it occurred.

Well random killings and

attacks

increasing more and more and.

And My comments would be brief and to the point obviously

whether it's a Homosexual group in Florida where this

just happened in a in a gay nightclub or a Shooting in a

in a school in New England or in a movie theater in Colorado.

It has nothing to do with this Muslim.

Even earlier in the week, I think in Florida a Muslim leader had given a

lecture and was saying that Homosexual that death

should be there.

It obviously is just a reflection of the continuing decline in an American in

society we see in Romans 1 and I don't think any

Christians should obviously take their their spin or their perspective from From

social media because the Only the Christian in this world can view

these things properly from a biblical worldview.

Obviously whether these were were homosexuals in Florida or

otherwise, it's a tragedy and I think it's very.

Evangelicals go publicly.

It's a poor example, and it's always misinterpreted and twisted when

evangelicals begin to call this the judge obviously.

Any time such things happen it can be the judgment of God but we know the

Bible tells us that come to the righteous and the unrighteous to

the to the righteous and to the wicked both and.

So Job, of course in the Old Testament is a primary example of that and.

So.

13 when the Lord Jesus spoke

enough

terrorists

attacking the Galileans

a place of worship and

They were killed and

then Then Christ brings up without someone else

mentioning it a tower in Salaam Providentially falling

The first attack was done by me and the second were not

Perpetrated by men that fail and kill people

crying.

He doesn't blame anyone He he

directly says Everyone who hears about such

event because their life can end at any

moment as well, right?

They shouldn't be necessarily be overly focused on the lives of

those who were victims of any kind of

catastrophe.

Whether or not they were Living rightly before God, but they should be turning the focus in their own

hearts to see if they have truly repented.

Exactly any any act of terrorism or tragedy.

Life is fragile life is brief.

I must be ready to die any time and above all that.

It amazes me sometime when Believers will speak out publicly

about God being involved in such tragedies that God was was

involved in 9 -11 and People get angry about that.

People who don't even have any profession of Christianity.

They'll get angry that you but we know that the Bible says

are in his hands.

They're appointed by God and he rules over all things.

And men Don't want God involved in such events because they

don't want God involved in their lives.

Right.

So we must view this as

and to go into eternal

dying of cancer.

Wake up call.

And even though God.

In his sovereignty Uses evil men to bring

about Events that he himself is ordained that does not make

those evil men or their actions any less evil.

And were this crazed gunmen to

survive this act of Terror that he

performed.

Christians rightly thinking Would want that man brought to justice and would not

want him to be looked upon as some kind of a hero or something just because They disagreed

with the lie the lifestyles of the victims.

Exactly right.

And another final comment, I would give the secular world Does not

believe that I don't

believe in the demonic world.

So we know that evil forces and

demonic power evil men to do such

believers can interpret that properly and see Satan himself at work.

He has no compass

Morally or spirit gory, so

they cannot interpret.

Yes, so.

We would ask you to pray for the families and friends of those

victims in Florida that they may come to know especially

the Only one who can save them from their sins Someone who

could actually bring about some sense of purpose

and All that happens on this earth and that only one who can do any of those things is the

Lord Jesus Christ Who is a friend of sinners, although he is a

righteous and holy and perfect and sinless King.

And as I close my program every day an iron sharpens iron a

Quote the great Puritan Christopher love with the words

that I want my listeners to remember for the rest of their lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner and I hope that my listeners will always remember that.

And if anybody involved with the family and friends of the

survival of the victims of this atrocity, I Pray

for them and I hope that you join me in praying for them as well.

Now we are going to move into the topic at hand

the first being that of the life and legacy of Leonard Ravenhill and actually Briefly

before we enter into that topic.

I'd like you to discuss The upcoming Bible conference that you are a

part of in Portland, Maine.

In fact, my co -host Reverend Buzz Taylor has spent a good portion of his life living in Maine

years.

And so if you could let our listeners know about that.

Yes was in Portland Maine

and then asked some colleagues of mine and I

around the country If we would be willing to start a Christian conference

summer conference in Portland.

Because of course obviously New England is a very dark area

Solid biblical churches and there was no conference.

So four years

ago.

We begin.

It's August 4th

through the 6th.

They're in Portland, Maine.

It's held at a church.

Lets us use their building that during community church During crossing but

I can give the website and then I could comment on the conference.

Sure.

It's fellowship conference newly August 4th,

it is not a large

column in

Dublin's

and The

preaching is biblical.

It's pastoral.

It's to the heart.

We're not on any or any tangents.

It's strictly from the Bible about the gospel of Jesus Christ

and The saving power of it will be both

avenge pastoral

preachers a morning

prayer mature to

the Oh Famous 19th century.

Yeah a New England pastor.

He's buried.

Wow, praying pace and I remember praying place in a Portland.

Yes, and his daughter was Elizabeth Prentice, correct.

Correct.

All right, so we'll visit his grave one afternoon and have a brief lecture on his life.

And there

will also be Friday.

That's free and young man a

contact us or

simply go to

the website Fellowship conference New England.

Calm great.

Well.

The first massive volume that we're going to address that you wrote the

biography of Leonard Ravenhill, which you call in light of eternity

the life of Leonard Ravenhill.

This is a massive book.

This is a book that Exceeds 580

pages.

And first of all, let our listeners know why you chose to

write in such at such great length about this particular figure from church

history who is a rather recent figure from Church history.

It was not that long ago that brother Ravenhill went home to be with the Lord but if

you could If you could let the listeners know why

you chose to write about him.

Well, it's a reason I like

from 19 to 1994 when he died.

He he lived in various places in the moving here in

1958 from Britain.

But his final years were in Texas for were in East Texas.

Lindale, Texas Which is about 80 miles east of Dallas and I got to know him by hearing

him.

I was a seminary student in Fort Worth, Texas the city to

preach regularly and I

had never heard heard such a preaching in my

life and.

So.

My wife and I then starting in 1979 1979 We had the privilege

of going to Leonard Ravenhills Friday night prayer meeting.

Where people would come far and wide and he now

deceased young Christian singer Keith Green.

Who's gonna lead the hymns in the prayer meeting?

And it was like heavers of worship Ravenhill preach

pray 1980s

and he just became was one of the

godliest.

So.

When his sonography

had to be done and I kind of had an inside track his sons knew me.

I Knew Leonard

weather

day before 9 -11.

She died in September 10th 2001.

After they had to

work on the bar.

I worked on it part

-time.

We have his life administering me

and.

It's interesting that you as a reformed Baptist have taken upon yourself this

work to Help the legacy of Leonard Ravenhill live

on in writing.

You are a reformed Baptist, but this was not his own background was it.

Not at all,

right for about a year and

it was not at all a reformed place.

It was an atmosphere.

The

Ravenhill was

friend speak about things.

He loved

the Puritans and

He hated all cheap grace

and he didn't give altar called preach and so

He had a strong view that

the Holy

Spirit

traveled for he

walked across him more than once and

then he had 36 years in America and so he

never pastored

churches, you

know.

We ought to have a if we have a

different deal need to have

a Catholic see on John Wesley.

And so we need to appreciate them Even if they're not

right because they are truly.

Regenerate men with a gift for preaching and a gift for writing and because they are

saturated with God's Word They will very often Sound

as if they are in complete harmony with the great reformed men of old and

of present Because they shared the same Bible and sometimes they may not have even realized

their own.

Inconsistency with some of the things they said but It's a wonderful inconsistency when somebody

can preach on grace.

That sounds like it is thoroughly From the gospel of the Reformation and yet it

wind up being a Wesleyan or another.

Non -reformed Christian speaking the words or writing them.

So you said he wasn't a pastor though.

He was a.

Like a conference speaker.

Like a tenor at evangelist, yeah.

Yeah in Britain.

He had 20.

He had 28 years in Britain and he To

give a biography

called the trekker

Walked across Britain pulling a cart with a

Tent in it and then I would walk into and

plan to stay there three weeks in the market.

Evangelists like Whitfield and Wesley they would go into town until they

began to see people rages.

They were compassionate

towns in England.

But they saw at times Hundreds

and sometimes Ravenhill or others would

stay behind as briefly

Until they could secure come among them.

So he did pass briefly.

He served as an a

in 1950.

He began to come to America and They were sure.

Yeah, Minneapolis.

Yes still exists.

It does and they had a

and they invited Ravenhill to come they would have conferences in the summer for their staff and for

Believers and began

to come

in church history that kept inviting him

back each year.

Well the more he would come

in 58 He came seven years and he had more

invitations in

a PA.

Wow, he was only for a couple of years and David

Wilkerson in the days of Nikki

Cruz and the gangs of New York.

That's another providential occurrence because my co -host Reverend Taylor worked for.

That's fine.

David Wilkerson invited Leonard Ravenhill to come and be the chaplain at

the

noon converts.

It would speak and would

preach three hours.

So he had a he had a great ministry basically.

He began to have invitations in Conferences large conferences

down and Just lived.

He lived in Chicago area west

of Bahamas for a couple of years and had extensive.

Widely, and yes many years ago.

What wasn't that many years ago, but it was back in the early 90s I believe maybe

late 80s when I was a member of what was then called Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville and

Our mutual friend Mike Gaydosh was the pastor there and he had just started

Calvary Press Publishing and the I believe the very first

Publication was thoughts for young men by JC Ryle and Leonard Ravenhill was kind enough to

write an endorsement for that.

I remember.

Well

Raven Hill

Ryle and

they're easily find his sermons all over the internet.

And we're gonna be going to a break right now if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for pastor Mac

Tomlinson about the life and legacy of Leonard Ravenhill.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at at gmail .com.

That's CH RIS AR n Z n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of

the USA.

Don't go away we're gonna be right back with pastor Mac Tomlinson.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns.

And if you just tuned us in our guest today is pastor Mack Tomlinson the first hour of this

broadcast.

We are discussing the life and legacy of Leonard Ravenhill about whom Mack wrote a

biography Titled in light of eternity the life of Leonard

Ravenhill and Coming up on the second hour.

We are going to be Discussing Conrad Murrell and The

biography that our guest wrote about him grace and truth.

And if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Ch r is a are n ze n at gmail .com and please give us your first name.

City and state and country of residence if outside of the USA.

One more plug for world magazine.

If you want to take advantage of that free offer that they have comes with

a free book by RC Sproul.

Go to W N G which stands for world news group Dot

org slash iron sharpens, that's W N G standing for a

world news group forward slash iron sharpens and I'm repeating that because sometimes n

like news sounds like M for Michigan on the radio, so trying to be as clear as

possible and Before we go to a few listeners who are already

patiently waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

Pastor Mac you said that Leonard Ravenhill was from the

Wesleyan Arminian background.

Was there any specific denomination he was affiliated with and My second question was due to

his affiliation with David Wilkerson.

Was he also charismatic of any kind.

Well, not really I can speak in general terms, but I think they're accurate.

First of all he was When he was converted as a 15 year old boy,

he was born and raised in Leeds England which is north of London a good

his father was a very godly man his father had been a drunkard and

Leonard saw the powerful change in his life and Then his dad began to go

to among the it

was really the days before the Nazarene Church formed

early in England.

They did not practice The popular charismatic gifts they would have

At least in church.

They were again.

He is early went to

Cliff College, which was more or less a Methodist missionary school under Sam

Chadwick who was one of the leading preacher

day and He had that large influence

the churches that formed under Raven Hills

preaching in his colleagues ultimately became British Nazarene churches.

But he he didn't become a Nazarene

he stayed at the

preached in a lot of Occupation but

on more than one.

Okay, he thought he thought a lot of it was

false and counterfeit.

He wasn't about later things.

Mm -hmm.

That's that's where his heart was.

Well, didn't they also believe in the baptism of Holy Spirit as a second work of grace minus

the initial sign of tongues.

Well, he did believe in the what he called the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

He did not use the term second work of grace Because

he believed what?

Let's say what even what Martin Lloyd -Jones would believe

After converting the Holy Spirit,

but he but he

didn't believe it was a

one -time event.

He believed that preachers could be empowered or Christians could be empowered at any time over and over

Being filled with the Holy Spirit.

That was really his position.

Okay, we do have a listener in Randleman, North Carolina Seth.

Who asks what does pastor Tomlinson think?

The late Raven Hill would say to the Current church state or rather

about the current state of the church.

Also if time what is his favorite Raven Hill book and why.

He was always grieved

at because he saw compromise and

Negligence he always addressed.

Christ.

He had no very he died in 1994

and he was grieved.

He never really saw a revival happen that he so long

to if he saw the condition today He would be

even more grieved.

That would be my.

As far as his book most of

them on prison.

Why revival.

He wrote a very unique book

study of Christ temptation the wilderness and his

Transfiguration.

It's basically a it's a wonderful

book.

He also compiled a book on

Prayer edited by Raven Hill.

Well Seth if you could you

get you gave me your city and state.

But I've got a surprise for you Seth.

Since you're a first -time listener or should I say a first -time Questioner

to my recollection you're gonna get a free a New American Standard Bible compliments of

the publishers of the NASB and If you could give me your full address as soon as

possible.

We'll make sure that one is shipped out to you free of charge God willing even this

week.

So we look forward to getting your full address.

Seth we thank you for listening and writing into iron sharpens iron and

We do have another listener Who asked a question that you've already touched on but perhaps you can

expand on it.

Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York Asks, what do you think of our brother Raven

Hill's legacy as being a man of prayer?

There's an amazing leg.

I mentioned his

father after once a

month.

They were praying like any good prayer meeting you and I might be in today and it was an

atmosphere

He dedicated himself.

He said Lord, even if you don't ever make me a preacher make me a man of prayer.

He would discipline him every day and

that would vary, you know.

He probably had three seasons of prayer every day

a morning.

He would have an afternoon for many

preachers by name every day I'm talking

about.

And so

Martha sons

were all scap in New

Guinea and and Other places

and so they always.

Of course, there was no internet.

So they would listen to the nightly news to see if there was any international news

at all.

Sleep about an hour.

He would get up midnight to three or four

in the morning.

He probably prayed

Usually hours a

day prayer meetings and in his home at his

office.

He didn't pray with he

prayed passionately.

But Raven Hill could pray.

Walking or that's what

marked his life.

And really that's what gave power

and just a curiosity in those years that you.

Knew Leonard closely.

Were you at the time?

Yet a Thorough believer in the doctrines of Sovereign Grace also known as Calvinism

and did it cause any conflict with your friendship with Leonard.

I.

Was before I ever heard it.

Oh, yeah, pretty well -known Southern Baptist

Church seminary.

Yes.

He's been a guest many times on my show.

Dr. Nettles was my church history professor in the mid -1970s At Southwestern

Baptist.

So so I was already Calvinistic in my views.

Before I ever heard the name of Leonard Raven Hill I

got my passion and my devotional and

I got my theology from Calvinist.

Yeah, it was a beautiful thing so there was never any conflict.

I would give Leonard good books by Calvinistic authors and he loved them.

And into his life of his

life.

He was mainly reading the Puritans and he was giving away.

He'd give that away to many young preachers.

So he loved the

trance

Lee and we

never had and.

The I was just gonna say something that flew out of my head.

Well, I want to make sure that You have in the few minutes we have left for the first hour

that you really unburden your heart about Leonard Raven Hill and Leave our listeners with what you

most want them to remember and What you most want to use to whet their appetites for

them to get your biography About Leonard Raven Hill in light of eternity.

The biggest thing I would say though

on the internet if three

website and he'll sermons can be I'll give

these Raven Hill org just his last name are a V in

HLL Raven Hill org and then sermon audio net and

Sermon index net

and other places.

So hearing Raven Hill and reading him convicting

and People don't need to let them let Raven Hills ministry was

kind of a one -note sounding repentant

and man's responsibility and so

and Somewhat in bondage because they go

overboard and they over which is

marvelous the biography.

Can be found that Raven Hill biography calm this one word

Raven Hill biography calm and It is as you said almost 600

pages.

It's a definitive Biography several

will actually three appendices in the back of Raven

Hills.

Full definitive

look at his life in his ministry also with many been the life and

ministry of Leonard Raven Hill.

One book he wrote that I failed to mention Erica you're too young to die.

One of his latter books and it was a call

is too young to die and that

would be a great read.

Let me also give a plug to a few other publishing ministries That

you can use to pick up.

Our guest book free grace press would be one.

That's free grace press calm.

Also our mutual friend Mike Gadosz of solid ground Christian books who is a sponsor of this

program?

You can go to solid ground books calm.

Solid ground books calm.

And finally another sponsor of this broadcast Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service

CV bbs .com.

CV bbs .com is their website.

And by the way, I don't know if you gave accidentally a wrong website or

URL for sermon audio, but the sermon audio that I Have a sermon

audio calm not net.

So I'm not sure.

If that was thank you for that correction that might be right, but people can find out.

Yeah.

Well, I know that sermon audio comm is definitely a correct website for them.

Thank you.

And We're gonna be going to our break.

Now and at the top of the hour, we're going to be switching gears and discussing

Conrad Merrill's life and legacy.

The other biography that you have written.

Grace and truth.

About this dear brother who is still with us.

Not in heaven yet, but I'm sure longing to be there.

A senior saint that has had a life filled with good works and

great evidence of his dedication to his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

And we hope that you stay tuned for the second half of this program to learn more about This

unsung hero, I believe of Christianity Conrad Merrill.

I have to admit that I first discovered his existence through our guest Mac Tomlinson.

So I'm looking forward to learn more about him.

If you would like to join us on the air with questions of your own

about Conrad Merrill or about Christianity in general about the doctrines of Sovereign Grace.

You can email a question to our guest pastor Mac Tomlinson to be read and answered on air

at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state and Your country of residence.

If you live outside of the USA don't go away.

We'll be right back with pastor Mac Tomlinson.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God?

Or am I trying to please man.

If I were still trying to please man? I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Orrinson if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full hour he was already on an hour and

he's on for an hour more God willing and We already discussed to the life and legacy

of Leonard Ravenhill a Brother who went home to be with the Lord not

that long ago and Who left such a powerful impact on our

guests mind and heart?

MacTominson's mind and heart that he took it upon himself to write a very in

-depth biography nearly 600 page biography on Leonard Ravenhill

called in light of eternity the life of Leonard Ravenhill and we hope that you

pick up a copy of that as soon as possible and if you

want more information on this book you could go to Providence Denton

org.

Providence Denton org, which is the website of Providence Chapel

and Will be giving you more information on other websites that you can go to

Including the website for free grace press and other Other websites where you can order the book, but what

we are now going to be discussing his second biography That we are highlighting

today Conrad Murrell grace and truth and this is another massive work This one is

even longer.

This is a work that is nearly 700 pages of

content and If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own about Conrad Murrell

or any other question regarding theology And pastor max church, etc.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com at CH RIS a

RN Z n at gmail .com and

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live

outside of the USA and I might as well in case I forget to later give you right

up front an Address a URL for this book Conrad Murrell

calm.

That's should be easy to remember.

It's c o n r a d m as in Michael you are r e l l

Calm but It's interesting that you write in a

description of This book and also of the subject of

this book Conrad Murrell.

You say that you have a perspective regarding Conrad

Murrell that was expressed well by Andrew Bonar about his close friend Robert Murray

McShane in 1838 and Is what you feel about Conrad and the

quote is what amazes me about his life more than anything else Is his desire to show

God's grace to others and to feed upon himself?

If you could explain that quote.

Well for those who know in his

when he was about 28 years old McShane Was close friends with Andrew

and and

those men were Evangelists missionary

minded.

McShane

was really

Lee

would impacted people and.

That's what I was saying in

the quote that very accurately and he could proclaim it

very powerfully but that grace Christ

Emanated from his life.

He was a holy grace.

How

did you first become aware of Conrad Murrell?

Well, it was even before I met Heard of Leonard Ravenhill

book by Conrad my tape back

in those days

affected.

I was a college student later when my

why it became

a watershed of Youth and

I was talking earlier about how influenced me theologically

for me that solidified my thinking

theologically and doctrinally and.

So he would put out a newsletter every Three months

to readers that would have but would also give his his itinerary

79 that he was so

that was the first

as a year

and their

church members and we began to frequent

those Conferences.

We knew Conrad

twice as long as

from our years

of being in

in.

College and seminary.

By the way, do you know if he's listening today?

I.

Do not know if anyone has told him or not.

So, okay.

Well, I want to extend.

Personally's my deep Apologies and regrets for having the blooper in the

beginning of the program when I announced his Demise before

it has actually happened.

So I hope that you have a sense of humor Conrad if you're listening and Please accept my

apologies for that.

What.

Tell us something about his own background.

What kind of religious background if any was Conrad raised in and.

Tell us about how he came to faith and so

on.

Andrea.

It's two hours south east of Shreveport, Louisiana very rural area.

Only people who really love

them.

Hmm, and so that was the atmosphere Conrad grew up in.

He was unconverted.

He believed in God his parents example, but

he he had not when he

graduated from from high school.

It would be about 1942 43 and

so his brother.

Lived in Houston, Texas to the southwest to

Houston and got

a job.

Basically, it was all film

job working met

a young lady and

after they had he excelled in his business.

He became an engineer into Houston

that at

inner

conscience go to church.

So Conrad went to church with his dad on a Sunday.

And it was that very Sunday.

That

food he

had not been under

conviction.

He had not been determinedly got arrested and

his dad went months later his wife.

He immediately joined a Baptist Church in the Houston area began to grow

within a year.

He knew he

was

and.

What was the events in his life that actually?

Led him to believe that he had a call from God to become a preacher of the gospel.

He was in a church of the call to

the ministry a number of young men and

Conrad

was a

very

cultivated it.

Context of it.

So what were the things that made him another figure that stood out in the

crowd?

Of Christians Who have lived and departed this earth and also those who are still with us, but

who may be retired from their ministry like Conrad?

What made the Conrad stood out stand out as someone.

I've got to Write a very lengthy biography about this this brother in Christ.

Well, there's a say about that and I'll try to be brief

and and concise deep.

A thinker.

Oh, wow, or or a bird call.

Wow he had that level of a

man to

deal with feel a

Right view of salvation called salvation when to correct the error that salvation is

did somebody makes on their

act.

The Contemporary erroneous view that of the charismatic

parody doctrine

initiated work

up a important issues.

After he began to pass he was

never feel like he never went a day to Bible school.

And I would really

from this none of the

three prolific readers

who grasped the

Bible with a thorn

red Merle.

Hmm now it don't I'm sorry.

I was just gonna say Martin Lloyd -Jones read Conrad Merle's writings.

Wow, and that's.

There is some Difference of the level of education there because dr. Martin Lloyd -Jones was a

doctor a medical doctor.

So obviously right.

He went through a lot of education and training.

What kind of secular education did Conrad Merle have if any.

Really very little when he was an engine the the

oil.

Or any anything else.

The great

prison in

the part was he had the brick.

Yeah, it sounds a lot like John Bunyan.

Very very similar because

of John

Bunyan.

John Owen who was a very learned man was humble enough to even have Bunyan preach from

his very own pulpit.

Yes, and.

We do have a listener BB in Cumberland County,

Pennsylvania who wants to know.

This man Conrad Merle you speak of sounds like an extraordinary man of God.

Why is it that?

It appears he is very.

Is that he is known very little in this day and age.

It's a great question and it's an important question.

The answer is Conrad live

along with the

Apostle.

Paul was spoken of as he spoke of himself and he

Said he

was well

known, but he conducted his usually

small.

He mainly had a minister and Bible call in the

South.

He did preach in

California among Southern

Baptist Church

inside those circles.

There have been some preachers of old.

Well, it wasn't that long ago comparatively, but obviously I'm talking about decades ago.

Who were such passionate preachers such gifted preachers that even

some fundamentalists who were not Calvinists Became

great admirers of them.

Would that have been also someone like Conrad Merle?

That would exactly be right.

He preached in some popular conferences.

One in particular

Zachary, Louisiana James a

Stewart evangelist preach.

There are

many

men Duncan Campbell the Scottish of

Scotland when he preached with such men.

But he was lesser know.

We do have CJ and Lyndon Hearst, Long

Island.

Who says in light of some of the?

Uneducated men that is men who did not receive formal education who have

become great shepherds of Christ's flock and great gifts to the

church in their writing and in their preaching.

Would you say that those denominations that absolutely insist on seminary educations for their

pastors are in error.

It's a delicate

in scholarship

and obviously God still wants scholars who can teach Greek and Hebrew and

old and new testing to teach.

I.

Would agree with the

caller used of God.

It's obviously not a bit.

It's not a biblical requirement, obviously.

No, no, in fact.

Mm -hmm in the

days of Judd

day They were to train men for the preaching of the gospel.

But a local

petrol and often

some

Bible applied

themselves is what made

them to be used of God.

Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania says Unlike Ravenhill you seem to

have more theologically in common with Merle.

Is there anything that you disagreed with.

Merle on they

preach together?

Hmm?

Interesting, uh, yeah.

In the 1970s all preached together

up and down the West Coast in California and Oregon and they were dear

friend.

One was and I'm at each other and

they remain free today.

Did they ever debate and even in a friendly fashion?

Probably because I'm thinking publicly I'm thinking of the I'm thinking of the friendship between George

Whitfield and John Wesley and.

They had a polar opposite view on Unconditional election and yet even though they

had very heated discussions in writing on it Where they disagreed they

remained friends.

In fact Whitfield as you probably know Requested that Wesley preach at his funeral and he

did.

Yeah, they had this Conrad Murphy relationship,

but Ravenhill was actually right

became um, I will tell you a funny.

Don't let me forget the question if you got any disagreements.

Yeah to your point one to Leonard.

Ravenhill and Conrad told this story they were driving in California

King appointments and Leonard always preached we ought to

get more serious about prayer and pray until revival comes and

Conrad believed in prayer for revival, but he believed sin

revival sovereignly at the right the one they were driving.

He wanted to see how it said Leonard.

Why don't we pull over and get a motel?

The revival

Ravenhills answers.

Ravenhill replied.

Well Conrad we must consider the sovereign will of God in this.

Hahaha.

We also must consider the cost of the hotel nightly.

Back then Bob.

Back then the hotels were $8 a night.

Anyway, so they did not they never.

They never had expected one another they viewed each other's ministry.

Important and rich and their gifts were

different

when people here.

Before

we go to the question of our listener about

any disagreements you may have had with Merle.

I'm gonna go to a break and you could answer that when we return and if you'd like to join

those other listeners who asked us questions for Mac Tomlinson, you can

email us as well at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

That's CH RIS a RN ZN at gmail .com.

And please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the bill

USA.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Pastor Mac Tomlinson and more of his discussion on Conrad Merle.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnz and if you just tuned us in our guests today for the past 90 minutes and for the

next half hour to come has been Mac Tomlinson pastor of Providence Chapel

in Denton, Texas and He has quickly become a friend of

mine over the past months and I'm so delighted that Even my

oldest brother John out there in Justin, Texas has just recently made our

guests acquaintance and I'm looking forward with bated breath to see a friendship blossom and

develop there and I would love to hear a good report on that.

If you just tuned us in we have been discussing the last half hour The

biography that our guest has written about Conrad Merle titled Conrad Merle grace and

truth it is nearly 700 pages worth of information on the life

of this get very gifted brother in Christ who was now in his twilight years and

retired from the ministry and we hope that he eventually hears this broadcast and

If you'd like to join us on the air as well.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and before we went to the break a

Listener had asked you if you had any differences of theology or practice

with Conrad Merle.

I'll be glad to address that Chris.

Could I mention something real quick?

So yeah, sure.

It's a little misleading on about the biography on Conrad.

If people think almost 700 pages on him,

there's the other fee on him

the lengthy.

A.

Bit of material at the end of the book to appendices appendix a and appendix B.

That make the book worth getting.

These are Conrad Merle's rare writings from his early years.

Appendix a is called bread commentary

commentary on many of the Psalms and They are phenomenally good

in my opinion as good as Spurgeon on the Psalms.

So that's appendix a.

Appendix B.

Articles that he wrote on that are filled with

insight and Wisdom.

A lot of the book at the end of it is Conrad's own rare writings.

Himself, so I wanted to clarify that so you plagiarized him that

I was joking.

No.

Back to your question.

Uh -huh.

Did were there areas I disagreed with Conrad?

My answer is simply very very.

You know, I learned early in my Christian life

Reads that I respected.

I learned the book and

Deeply and he he thought he had seen truth in a

specific area

Bible To check it out and make sure.

And so at times I would say no, I don't think I but it never

affected my respect and love for him.

There is one it's chapter

Chapter 6 the atonement

being close to Conrad who began to disagree with him over his

definition of propitiation.

And where they were formed where they were formed.

Men who disagreed with him.

Yeah, because of a very technical Scholarly definition of how he defined

it.

Mm -hmm.

I'm mentioning this because it's an example of how men handled

disagreements.

These men were closer ten years.

They discussed it together.

They wrote letters.

And they never came to fully agree with one another.

But in the chapter three major lessons,

they don't agree and listen.

Lesson number one is Truth is always paramount.

Mm -hmm.

Truth is the most important thing above friendships.

Yes above the nominational loyalties.

So these three men Conrad being one of them.

They saw truth is paramount and when they didn't agree They wanted to

they challenged one another as to what really was the truth.

Because they saw true truth

is never diminished by asking questions near the best of me

and so lesson number two.

Agree on important truth.

We all still can see through a glass darkly as Paul said.

So two godly men both who love the Lord both who are equally

Committed to Christ they may see some truths differently.

Mm -hmm, and we have to a freedom.

Hmm and the third lesson love must reign in all things

JC Rall said this.

Humility and love are precisely the graces which men of the world can understand when they do not

comprehend Christian doctrine.

These are the graces about which there is no mystery of all

believers.

The Christian indication for prayer.

Well that has to.

So they disagreed for ten years on

a fine point of theology.

But it never diminished their love and respect.

Amen.

Well, that seems like it is.

Really at the heart of the description that Matthew Henry gave to Proverbs

2717 that my show is named after iron sharpens iron

Matthew Henry believed that that text that iron sharpens iron So one man sharpens another was

basically that the goal of every conversation that you should have is to make

one another wiser and better and That would include yourself

so I'm glad that that seems to be.

The.

The makeup of What had occurred in this brother's life when those Friends of

his had opposed him on the finer points of theology.

Right, I give I give.

At the beginning of that chapter 6 I give two quotes.

One is by Martin Luther who said peace if possible, but truth at any

cost.

And.

Then another brother said we need not all agree.

But if we disagree Let us not be disagreeable.

Amen, that's good.

Amen and So this is in fact I could we could do a whole

program on that one aspect of Conrad Merle's life because that is something that rages on

it has raged on from the very conception of the church

until the present day where brethren in Christ Since we are fallible and

Finite and sinners until the Lord comes to claim us on the last day

and we are in glory with him We who are on this earth will never be perfect.

And therefore it is hard to Walk the fine line.

Is it not when it comes to disagreement over? Doctrine and

other matters in the scripture of becoming either on the one hand a

self -righteous proud and arrogant Pharisee and on the other

side of the The tightrope there is a

compromising wishy -washy watered down ineffected impotent

Individual when it comes to important matters of the faith, I mean you don't want to be either one and we who are

Christians who also are simultaneously sinners.

It's very very difficult to keep that balance at all times, isn't it?

It certainly is it is.

It's a tightrope and I think we must see that God doesn't

have.

And trues

that he's.

We must not think that they don't love the Lord.

We don't quite agree with their position.

We do have a.

Listener in Suffolk County, Long Island who has a quote was a question that kind of touches on

what we're just we've just been talking about.

Christopher and Suffolk County, Long Island asks.

You mentioned that Brother Merle was from an Assemblies of God

Background at least at one point in his upbringing.

Did his parents have any?

Disappointment or conflict with him when he became a Calvinist.

In detail, but After he was back to the Assembly of God

church.

He became a badness though at times.

He was invited to preach in those circles and he did.

But he did it in an uncompromising way as his

parents only gave him love and support.

They were supportive and the relationship was the whole time.

And we have Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island who asked what would you say

is Conrad's greatest contribution to the body of Christ?

Well, that is a wonderful question and I think I can answer it simply.

Conrad was a truth highest level and

He really became Almost a

walking seminal

training.

Who were grappling confusing questions?

What what what about the charismatic movement?

What about fairly doctrine of faith?

What about Calvinism and Arminianism and Conrad for Over

what really for 50 years?

Had a wide ministry in churches in the Midwest in the South

that is Virginia as far west as California.

And he would preach doctrinal truth,

which could get it

people would ask questions about Election or

Conrad was a deeper truth.

So hundreds of pastors and churches Really got their theological training

your contribution.

What were his greatest Influences or should I say who were the greatest influences

upon him and his theology

Lloyd -Jones?

He loved to read a W tozer.

He Medic

theology

off not a Baptist.

The the man initially that was used

for the Calvinistic view was a man named Gene Williams.

Established an evangelistic association in

Williams Who later dr. Weary in

Atlanta?

Georgia for

Conrad.

And so one day Conrad this was early Christian life.

It's in.

Conrad made some snide remark about those Calvinist and Gene Williams

wisely respond.

What about you know,.

And Conrad said well, you know their view that it's all of grace.

And Conrad what

was different in you than any other sinner.

Did God see something in you that was better Conrad?

Began to think Momentarily.

And then Gene Williams said so.

Anything in salvation then it comes from God's

a watershed moment.

It was like an epiphany for Conrad the light went off and suddenly he realized in that one conversation

Salvation had to wholly be of God.

Turning point.

Hmm.

Well, it's.

Interesting that.

It reveals to us because I've never heard of Gene Williams and it reveals to

us that we may never believe that God is going to use us for

Much of anything that has a great impact on the earth on the church on the future

and yet when you see the domino effect of how God has used men

who may not be famous, but who are Dedicated and loyal to him and his word

and how they could bring about such powerful Gifts to the church

that are manifest in other men who they have influenced.

It's just a reminder of that, isn't it?

It certainly is very much a good reminder.

And another thought we should be reminded of some of an

obscure places small places that people have never heard.

Mm -hmm.

And God is using them just as greatly.

Well before we run out of time I really want you to make sure that you leave our listeners with what you most want

etched on their hearts and minds in regard to Conrad Murrell.

Well, the biography would certainly

Conrad Murrell.

Calm.

It can be purchased there the.

There are two websites of sermons where people

can hear one is gospel.

Gospel.

B -e -a -r -e -r -s gospel bearer

is vintage voices .net

v -i -n -t -a -g -e V o.

I see yes vintage voices dotnet and.

Then you can find a certain fact.

If people want any of his books contact us.

For those as well, so his books are still very useful.

Beer and.

Let's hear before we go also something about something more about the

conference that I want those that tuned in late.

To miss out on the information regarding your New England conference that's coming up in August.

Yes in Portland, Maine, August 4 5 6 ship

conference, New England the fourth annual conference there in Portland.

It will be three days of preaching prayer and a wonderful

time that's very pastoral devotional and wonderful and People

can find information on That and register at fellowship conference new

england .com.

In fact, we do have a listener.

We have Christian in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania who wants to know what the cost of that.

Conference is memory serves me right at

$25 and then your me or the

Three days and three nights small you can see it there at the

website.

Great.

Well, I know that your church once again I don't want our listeners who

tuned in late to miss out on your website.

It's Providence Denton dot o -r -g.

That's Providence Denton D as in David e n t o n dot -o -r -g and

that is the website of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas.

And you've also got the website for the book.

We have been discussing Conrad Murrell calm C -o -n -r -a -d -m -u

-r -r -e -l -l dot -com and We have the website for the

Leonard Ravenhill book that we discussed earlier on.

What is that website again, brother?

It's right

the I

o -r -g dot -com.

Great, and don't forget about our sponsors who carry all of the books that we mentioned on

iron sharpens iron radio solid ground Christian books, which is Run by

a mutual friend of my guest and mine Mike Gadosh

In Birmingham, Alabama, that's the website for solid ground Christian books is solid

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books .com and In addition to that we don't want to forget the Cumberland

Valley Bible book service which has been a faithful friend of iron sharpens

iron since It's relaunching here in Pennsylvania.

Their website is CV BBS Calm that's CV for

Cumberland Valley BBS calm and They have

a wide range of excellent books By many

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And I also want to thank the folks At the

Church of God and Marysville Pennsylvania for inviting me

to speak at an upcoming retreat that they are running and

Perhaps you can join us as I will be speaking to the group there

about my program And I'm very honored that the pastor

Larry Hale has invited me to do this and I'm Going to

definitely block that out on my calendar so I can be present there in Newville,

Pennsylvania is where the actual retreat is.

So we hope that you can join us there in Newville, Pennsylvania, and I will be

announcing information More details on that retreat as soon as I

have them Available, I just know that the sponsors of this retreat

are the Glenvale Church of God in Marysville Pennsylvania

and they're known as the hospital on the hill.

That's their Nickname for the church and their website is Glenvale

Cog calm that's Glenvale COG which stands for Church of God Dot -com

so you could go there to find out more information about the retreat as well and that's going to be held

August 22nd through the 26th and at that

at the doubling gap center In Newville, Pennsylvania, they have a

campground there I'm actually going to be speaking to the group Tuesday, August 23rd

at around 11 a .m. God -willing.

Well.

Pastor Mac Tomlinson.

I hope that you not only return soon to iron sharpens iron as a guest, but I hope you return often

and I think that I'd like to especially tackle the subject with you on how

brethren in Christ should Maintain a loving relationship

even in the light of strong differences that we may have on theology because that Seems to be

something that is difficult to manage especially When people love theology,

which is a very important factor that is missing in our day and age.

But our love should never turn into pride should it?

That's exactly right.

It's very thank you Chris for having out again

very much.

And I just encourage any Christians in New England if you're hungry for fellowship and biblical

preaching in an atmosphere of love and acceptance.

Please join us in Portland, Maine.

For the fellowship cop six and I want everybody to always remember

for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.

We'll talk to you next time on iron sharpens iron radio.