Is the SBC Ruled By Women and Children? An Interview with Dr. Russell Fuller

Warning, the following message may be offensive to some audiences. These audiences may include but are not limited to professing Christians who never read their Bible, sissies, sodomites, men with man buns, those who approve of men with man buns, man bun enablers, white knights for men with man buns, homemakers who have finished Netflix but don't know how to meal plan, and people who refer to their pets as fur babies.

Viewer discretion is advised. People are tired of hearing nothing but doom and despair on the radio.

The message of Christianity is that salvation is found in Christ. Christ, therefore, forfeit any hope of salvation, any hope of heaven.

The issue is that humanity is in sin, and the wrath of Almighty God is hanging over our head.

They will hear His words, they will not act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment, when the fires of wrath come, they will be consumed and they will perish. God wrapped Himself in flesh, condescended and became a man, died on the cross for sin, was resurrected on the third day, has ascended to the right hand of the Father, where He sits now to make intercession for us.

Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear His words, they will act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment come, in that final day, their house will stand.

Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask. We're your hosts, Harrison Kerrig and Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we're joined by special guest, Dr. Russell Fuller, to help us answer the age-old question, is the SBC ruled by women and children?

Now, before we get to that title question, Dr. Fuller, why don't you just take a few minutes and just introduce us to you, tell us a little bit about yourself for everyone out there listening.

Okay, I came to Christ when I was 1975, 15 years old, and went and did a business degree. I really didn't know much about the Bible growing up, but I became very interested after I got saved, and even though I did a business degree, I noticed guys walking around with Greek New Testaments, and I'm like, that's what I want to read.

So, I got really into the biblical languages, and then finally I went to a couple of Jewish schools. I went to Dropsy College for its last year in existence up in Philadelphia, and then I was at a place called Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati.

And again, I specialized mostly in the languages, especially Greek and Hebrew, but other languages as well. And then after that, I worked for a small college in Kentucky called MidContinent, and it went out of business.

It sounds like everything I'm associated with goes out of business. And then I taught at Southern Seminary for 22 years, and now what I do is I teach online in something called Theology Classroom. And so, if you want to contact me about the classes that I offer, go to RussellTFuller .com, and it will give you some more information, and you can sign up for the classes.

But we teach basically the core of the Bible curriculum. So, we teach Old Testament, New Testament. We're having a course on evangelism by Tom Rush, and then I'm teaching like Old Testament theology and also the Pentateuch, and then we have a New Testament course on the books of Peter.

So, again, we focus on theology, language, and Old and New Testament Bible classes. And so, again, if any of your listeners are interested, and again, I have students from high school to in their 70s, and it's a little bit different.

We don't have exams and so forth. And so, there's no pressure. I don't call on anyone, but we try to really teach what the Bible teaches. And so, we want you to be mighty in Scripture, not just mighty in scholarship.

We'll hardly ever mention other scholars, really, because we want to talk about what Paul's talking about, what Moses, what Christ, and all that. So, that's what we're about. That's what I do. So, again, I've been teaching formally in classes for about 24 years, and then I've been teaching the last two years on my own over Zoom, again, theology classroom.

So, that gives you a little idea. Also, obviously, I'm married. I have three children. They're grown now. And so, that tells you a little bit. I still live in Louisville, Kentucky. And so, that's sort of a brief synopsis of who I am.

Dr. Fuller, it's great to have you on. I know that we recently did a podcast on some of the things that were happening with the SBC, and we wanted to have someone who is an expert on the SBC to come in and to give us your thoughts on some of the things that were happening related to the convention itself and just the general direction of the SBC that we're seeing now.

And I know that this isn't really anything new, that there have been trends in the SBC that have been going on for quite some time that have been going in a bit of a negative direction. But then, when Harris and I were thinking about what verse in the Bible to talk to you about as it relates to this subject and some of the things that happened at the convention where the credentials committee were unable to know the meaning of the word pastor, we thought that we would have you on and discuss the verse that came to our mind, and the verse that came to our mind was Isaiah 3 .12, which I'm sure you're pretty familiar with considering that you taught Hebrew for so long.

But Isaiah 3 .12 says, My people, infants, are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, your gods mislead you, and they have swallowed up the course of your paths. And when we think about the SBC and some of the things that are happening with just the place of women in ministry, the Me Too movement as it's affected the church, and then even just your standard child-centered dynamic that is present in many SBC churches.

I know that as a pastor, probably one of the most common, probably the most common source of contention and fights that I've seen happen have all revolved around children's ministry in general. I've had more conflict over children's ministry than anything else, and it's not even close.

So what do you think, Dr. Fuller? Is the SBC ruled by infants and women? Is that allowed to be asked according to the program? We're asking it. That's right. And the answer I would give is, in many ways, yes.

I think so. I mean, obviously, Isaiah is giving a real indictment about the leadership of Israel at the time, Judah, that it was no longer godly men, but now you had women, and they're called, like children ruling over them.

And when you look at the Southern Baptist Convention today, of course, they're very influenced by what's going on in the secular world. If you watch what's going on in the secular world and some of the things that are popular there, they come right into the Southern Baptist churches, and we copy these things.

It's like Paul talks about, don't be led captive to these vain philosophies. And in the Southern Baptist Convention, we are. And you mentioned, one, the Me Too movement. And a woman who's not even a Southern Baptist herself, in many ways, is ruling over the Southern Baptist when it comes to this Me Too movement.

You're talking about Rachel Denhollander? Yes, I am. I'm talking about Rachel Denhollander. And she has an enormous amount of influence in the Southern Baptist Convention. As you know, there was an investigation launched by, and of course, there was a committee, first of all, put together, and Rachel Denhollander was part of that.

And they got a group to come in from the outside guidepost to do an independent investigation about these things. And again, Rachel Denhollander, let me just say, first of all, she shouldn't have been involved at all in this.

She's already represented as a lawyer for Jennifer Lyell, who the Southern Baptist paid over a million dollars to her in a certain case. So, she already, she has a vested interest, and she has really a conflict of interest to be involved in these things.

But yet, she has a very powerful voice. And Al Mohler at Southern Seminary, very much influenced by her. And if you read the guidepost report, Mohler's talked about many times, because he justifies the Jennifer Lyell situation, saying that Lyell had a 12-year relationship with one of the professors.

Now, again, that 12 years, she wasn't always a student for 12 years. Sometimes she was working in Chicago, sometimes in Nashville. But we're talking, she was 26 years old when it began. As people learn details about it, for instance, apparently the SBCs, the Southern Baptists, they have an insurance firm, obviously, that sometimes will say, hey, we need to settle this.

But they looked at this case, and they were like, 12 years, 26 years old, let's not settle. She does not have a good case that she was really an abuse victim. And I think they were exactly right. So I don't even think, not only do we not know in the Southern Baptists what a pastor is now, apparently.

We don't even know what adultery is. And again, I can remember in a faculty meeting, when Mohler comes in and he starts talking about how Lyell is a victim, she's done nothing wrong. And again, we're talking a 12-year relationship.

And again, the way—. That's an adult. That's an adult. I mean, we're not talking about a 12-year-old girl or something like this happening. Well, what do you—Dr. Fuller, what do you think? As a person who is involved in biblical counseling, this is something that's somewhat baffling to me.

Maybe you could shed some light on it as it relates to this kind of thing. But it's baffling to me that you can have so many individuals who have devoted their lives to studying the Bible, and it seems like they haven't done just basic work as it relates to distinctions between culpability related to sexual issues.

And so there are categories in the Bible. The Old Testament law gives us instructions that we are to follow to determine culpability in the case of what's the difference between rape and what's the difference between essentially a voluntary and willing adultery.

And so the law gives us these—I mean, it's pretty black and white as you read through the Old Testament. It is. That a woman has a responsibility to cry out, and then we're now—the SBC now is just in a wholesale way embracing this secular understanding of victimology that essentially if there are power dynamics that are present there at all, then that can't be considered to be consensual.

And so how do you get there? How do we get to where—. I said, so let me get—am I understanding this correct? Because he was a professor and she was a student, it's not adultery. But had it been her butcher, that's adultery.

And the guy goes, yeah, that's the way I think it—that's the way they're explaining it. And I'm like, this is insane. This is absolutely insane. And when you go to the Scriptures, you're exactly right.

A woman, if she's raped, she's to cry out. And we even have an example of this in the Bible when Amnon and Tamar, where—. And Dinah. Yeah, Amnon rapes Tamar. And not only does she lift up her voice at the time of the rape, but even later on she raises her voice.

Now, of course, Absalom will tell her, hey, just be quiet for right now. You could say he was hiding it. Well, yeah, but he had a plan and he carried it out and that was to murder her. Amnon, his brother, or half-brother probably, or part-brother.

But anyway, we have examples in the Scripture. It's very clear. And again, for 12 years, she didn't cry out. And what she said later is she decided to cry out because David Sills, the professor, was going to go on mission trips again.

But yet she also says, you know, he threatened me to do all these things to me if I ever said anything. And Moeller acted like, oh, yeah, there was all these physical threats and so forth. Well, wait a minute.

If you're concerned about Sills going on another mission trip, why didn't you come out much earlier and protect all women when he's making verbal—. I mean, he's threatening you physically. Why don't you go to the police and do something about that?

Why do you wait 12, 13 years and then finally say, oh, he's about to go on a mission trip. He might harm somebody. Well, wait a minute. If he's threatened bodily harm and so forth, why aren't you with the police?

And by the way, there was an article written, Megan Besham, I think's her name. And, of course, she did some research on this and she did not contact the Louisville Police Department where a lot of this happened, apparently.

And then second of all, she says, no, it was the Jefferson County that I—the Jefferson Township or the city of Jefferson Town here in Louisville. That's where it was. Well, she contacted them and she—again, the police have no record of them at all.

So, again, a lot of this looks very flimsy. And at the Southern Baptist Convention, they did something this year that I don't think I've ever seen before where they apologized to certain individuals. And, again, Jennifer Lyle was one of them.

And, again, I think this is a very sad precedent. Now, I don't know the stories of the other ladies on here. But, again, this—and I'm not saying some of them were not sexually obese. I just don't know the situation.

But, again, they're following the world completely. And also their idea is this. If a woman makes a claim, she must be believed. And if you apply this—and, again, they won't—if you've been credibly accused, you go on this list.

Well, you could easily look at a guy like Joseph in the Bible and say he was credibly accused. She even had his garment beside her, you know. Women don't lie about that. Oh, yeah. Let me tell you this one.

There was a guy—one of my students at Southern Seminary. He was a career policeman. And he contacted me recently. And he said to me—he goes, Russell, I can't tell you over my—and I forgot how long he was a policeman.

Probably 25, 30 years. He goes, we got false reports on people every day because they want us to go and hassle somebody. And so people will claim this happened. And they know it's false. We have to go check it out.

And, again, it's just to intimidate people. It's to use us in a certain way. And so he's like, you'd be shocked at how many false accusations are brought to the police every day. Yeah. And think about this.

Gus, think about this. Let's go back to high school together for a second. You know, you fall in love with a person in high school, and they're the greatest person of all time. And then when you break up, they're the most evil, wicked people of all time.

You know how that works? Woman scorned. Hell has no fury like a woman scorned. And so now, you know, you want to get back at them any way you can. And sometimes there's false accusations, and sometimes there were things done that were consensual.

But when things go bad, well, wait a minute. It wasn't consensual. I was raped, you know. These things go on. And does rape go on? Absolutely it does. But these things are very difficult. And it's not so easy to say someone made a credible accusation.

You go on a list. Southern Baptist Convention is going down a very dangerous road. What about that list? They've already had to correct it. They've already made mistakes putting people on the list. And by the way, how in the world can the Southern Baptist Convention be an investigation agency to determine these things?

What we have, by the way, in the country is we have a federal list of sexual abusers. And many states have lists. I don't know why they're not using something like that. That'll also keep them away from legal liability.

Because you put some guy who's innocent on there, there's going to be some lawsuits coming down the road. As a matter of fact, they're inviting lawsuits right now. And it's not going to be a good ending for this.

And it's interesting, too. We're talking about is the SBC ruled by women and children. And from my perspective, it seems like you're at the convention's annual meeting, I guess, last week or two weeks ago now.

I can't even remember now. But it's pretty recent. You have a bunch of men up on the stage. But then they're basically bending over backwards to try and apologize to these women and whatever else. And they even present it as, when it comes to the guidepost report and the voting on that, essentially the way it's presented is if you don't get on board with this, then you are in favor of sexual assault.

When there's a lot of people out there just trying to say, hey, no, okay, number one, no one is in favor. No one who is a genuine believer, follower of Christ is in favor of sexual assault. That's correct.

But then we do have issues. So we want things addressed, but then there's just got to be better ways than going out and hiring a secular organization that, by the way, doesn't agree with our worldview when it comes to sexuality.

I think they probably, like you said, they've already had to come out and make corrections because I think they're probably biased in their judgment.

But they're not looking to the Bible as a sufficient guide to tell them how to handle these things. And so why would they get it right?

That's right. So it is interesting just to see, you have all these men who are quote unquote leading, but then really it is like the women are the ones in charge because if you don't get on board with them, then you're in favor of sexual assault.

Yeah, let me tell you this. If you go back to the 2019 convention, which was close to you guys in Birmingham, Alabama. We were there. Yeah. It was a cesspool of iniquity. Yes, it was. And let me tell you, they changed that.

We talk about resolutions, but resolutions, they have some weight, but they really don't affect the governance of the Southern Baptist Convention. They really give you a snapshot into the mind of the convention at that time.

And it does have influence. I don't want to say it's just a mere, we want to make this statement. No, it's a little stronger than that. But when you change the constitution of the Southern Baptist Convention, that's a much stronger thing.

And in 2019, they changed it to say that if you don't see sexual abuse as the convention does, your church will not be in friendly cooperation with the Southern Baptist Convention. Now, when they say if you don't see sexual abuse as we do, clearly you must see it through a Me Too lens.

And they basically changed it to say, if you don't see it the way we see it, the credentials committee could rule your church as not friendly with the Southern Baptist Convention. A lot of folks don't know that, but it's there.

And as a matter of fact, in the Guidestone Report, they even quote that. They show that where it happened, you see. And so if you want to see that, go to that Guidestone Report. By the way, also in 2019, since you were there, if you remember, a guy named Jimmy Scroggins gets up on stage.

He's a mega pastor down in Florida. And he talks about how they had some, I guess, sexual abuse task force they were putting together, something like this. A woman has to be on there. We have to have women on there, as if men couldn't do it.

You have to have women on there as well. But then also he gets up, and there was an election for a certain position. And he goes, we need a woman in that position just because it's a woman. She was totally unqualified.

Of course, she did get in because, again, Scroggins was representing the elite there at the convention or the establishment at the convention. She gets in there. She gets elected. She has to resign that position a few months later because she's completely incompetent at what she was doing.

But again, what we were doing is blowing our horns, see how good we are, see how sweet we are to women, and this kind of stuff. Again, we're looking, as James Merritt says, the world is watching. And the Southern Baptist Convention, they're constantly looking for the world's approval.

And so if the New York Times and the Washington Post, if they think the Southern Baptist Convention is going in the right way, they are so happy. And so the Southern Baptist Convention just wants to be where the spirit of the age is.

That's where the Southern Baptist Convention is. So to me, when I look at people like Scroggins and like Merritt and like Ed Litton and even Brett Barber, children are leading us right now. Yes. Well, it was embarrassing.

I mean, seeing Barber win, I mean, that has to be the most humiliating loss that anyone has ever had. What's interesting about, if you think about this, you know, Litton was, you know, you know how it is in the Southern Baptist Convention.

Once you get elected president, they normally will elect you for a second year. Right. You know, so you normally you get two years. And usually you don't even have opposition your second time unless there's a real conflict going on.

Well, as you know, Litton did not run again because of his plagiarism. And obviously he was getting pressure from the establishment. Again, it was the secular media mocking us that I think finally got the establishment to say, you know, we're going to have to have Ed step down, you know.

But the thing is, the man they put in his place, Brett Barber, is a big defender of Litton's…. Plagiarism. Plagiarism. As a matter of fact, he even says that God inspired Mark to plagiarize Peter in writing his gospel.

That's something, Dr. Fuller, that is just so, like, when I was at Southern, when I was at Southern, I noticed that there's this sycophantic kind of culture that's there that is just undeniable. I mean, it is, I mean, it's very, like, you know, I went to Master's University before that.

And, you know, going from Master's University to coming to Southern. One of the things that was very clear to me is that you had, like, a very strong and powerful unspoken rule that you do not criticize individuals in the SBC.

Correct. So whoever, like, the higher-ups are who are telling you, like, what to believe, you just follow them unquestionably because they have all the power and they have all the, you know, the job opportunities.

And, like, if you, you know, if you dare to criticize them, I mean, you're out, you know. Correct. As you know for sure. Oh. You know. Oh. You could speak to that, but then, like. I'll say this about it.

That was true with the faculty. That was true with the students. Both, there's faculty members and there are students that learned how to play the game real quick. They knew how to move up the ladder.

They knew exactly what to say. If the leadership says the sky is orange, yes, it is, you know. Well, there was a thing that was so strange to me is that I'm looking at, like, situations like that, you know, with faculty and with students.

And it is, it's like you're in bizarro world where. Yes. Someone, someone said to believe this and everyone's just jumping on it. You know, you have, like, professors who were good in other areas and then all of a sudden it's like when the higher-ups need to be defended, they go out and say things that you, you have to suspect that they don't believe.

Oh, yeah. Just, but then they come out there and run cover for it to keep their job and get, and then, you know, surprise, they get a promotion or something like that. Oh, yeah. And it was just like the most bizarre thing to watch, you know, on my end.

Like, just watching this kind of, you know, sick dynamic that it just is obvious, like, what's happening, you know. And I guess I'm used to being blunt and I'm used to just letting it go, you know. Like, let it go.

The worst thing you could do in a Southern Baptist agency is to speak the truth. If you speak the truth, you're not going to last long in any of the Southern Baptist agencies. I don't care what they are.

Matter of fact, if you think of Bobby Lopez at Southwestern, see, that's how he transgressed. He wanted to speak the truth about homosexuality as a former homosexual himself, but he was going against the narrative of Russell Moore.

And so, he was told, you just basically can't go against the narrative of Russell Moore. And he's like, you know, I'm going to tell the truth. I know what I'm talking about is true. And he was correct.

But again, to go against, and again, Russell Moore had nothing to do with Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. But you can't say any, you can't, you can't go against the approved narrative in the Southern Baptist Convention.

If you do, you'll be looking for another job like Bobby Lopez did. So, oh yeah, you cannot, notice, you know, for instance, think about this. The North American Mission Board, NAM, okay, they went into the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans and just purely lied about the Southern Baptist Convention.

They go to a federal court, appeals court, and they say that the Southern Baptist Convention is not a bunch of independent churches and organizations that cooperate with each other, which is the truth.

They say we're like the United Methodist Church. We're like the Catholic Church. We're an umbrella. They lie. And guess what? Not one, not one leader of the Southern Baptist Convention or any of the heads of the agencies will say a word.

Now, someone did ask Al Mohler, well, what about that? And he goes, I can't talk about an ongoing court case. Well, first of all, it really hasn't gone to, they haven't, NAM keeps delaying. So, there is no court case going on, really.

They haven't even done depositions yet. Moreover, Al Mohler, can't you tell us whether the Southern Baptist Convention is a group of cooperating churches and, you know, different organizations? SBC, Paulity 101, huh?

Yeah, exactly. So, then, by the way, we turned right around and went into the Supreme Court and lied right to them as well and said that we're an umbrella organization when they know good and well it's not, and not one, not one leader of the Southern Baptist Convention will come out and tell the truth.

I mean, what does that tell you right there? And, by the way, if you want to just keep going, I mean, you have something like Tom Rainer gets a million dollars and a brand new Lexus on the way out the door.

He quits. He gets a million dollars by Jimmy Scroggins. I mentioned him twice today. And, again, this is totally illegal. The rest of the board had no idea what he was doing. So, basically, two people, that's what I understand, gave Tom Rainer a million dollars plus a brand new Lexus on the way out the door.

And, by the way, the only way we know that, by the way, is they said certain things in threatening Rainer to take him to court. That was the only reason that stuff came out. Otherwise, we wouldn't even know about it.

That's how corrupt the Southern Baptist Convention is. And when this comes out, again, there's not one voice crying out saying, this is wrong. This is corrupt. Not one voice. So, it shows you the Southern Baptist Convention, they're watching everybody's back.

It's almost like a mafia family, to be quite honest with you.

Yeah, and I think you see that a lot, even in this most recent annual meeting. I mean, on Twitter, from the left in the SBC, all I see everywhere is, there is no drift. There is no drift. There is no drift.

We don't need to change the direction. We don't need to change the direction. That's right. I don't understand where any of that, what do you mean there's no drift? We're talking about what is a past.

Well, how can you say that? I mean, this is so ridiculous about that. How can you say there's no drift while at the same time saying we need massive reform as it relates to our handling of sexual abuse?

So, how can you hold those two thoughts together?

Is that the reasoning of children?

See, that's not moving left, you see. I mean, that is moving left. So, to them, like for instance, Al Mohler, Danny Akin came out about a year or so ago and said there's no leftward drift in the Southern Baptist Convention.

Then Mohler gets up at this convention and says, if we have to argue about what a pastor means, we're in big trouble. Wait a minute. What is it, Al? Are we moving to the, is that not a leftward drift?

That we can't even look at a church like Warren. Now, when the woman, by the way, who was speaking for the Credentials Committee, since we're talking about women and children, when she gets up and she talks about it, she goes, well, you know, Southern Baptist churches use the term pastor in so confusing ways, in so many different ways.

We don't know what to do with this. She does have a point there. But here's the thing. When it came to Rick Warren, it was very clear what he was doing. He was ordaining women, and then the pastors to replace him was one that was a teaching pastor, and it was a woman, of course.

It's very clear what he's doing. And by the way, when he got his five minutes or six minutes at the convention, he never denied, he never said, hey, guys, I'm against women pastors. No, he doubled down on this.

And so it was very clear that they knew what you might be confused what that some church over here, what they mean by pastor, but you could not be confused with what Rick Warren. And again, Rick Warren, he didn't come out and say, oh, I'm against this.

No. He said it's just a secondary issue. That's what he said. And again, clearly, they're moving to the left. And that's why they have to say all the time, we're not moving to the left. We're not moving to the left.

They have to say that to keep people on message, shall we say. But let me tell you, even they know they're moving to the left. I mean Hitler's view of propaganda is essentially you just tell the lie over and over and over again until people believe it, right?

That's correct. That's what's going on. I mean, that is what's happening. I mean, that's what's happening in the broader culture. These riots are not riots. That's right. Exactly. These are mostly peaceful protests.

This vaccine is killing or this coronavirus is killing everyone where you look around and you're like, well, who what is happening here? We're all the bodies in the streets if we're this is a massive plague, but it seems like they're doing the same kind of thing.

It's just like there is no drift. There is no drift as they take us as far away as they can. Unfortunately, they have to say that, but yet it's not only do you see a move to the left. You see just flat-out corruption.

You don't see any type of transparency with them. We know more about the budget and the line items of Planned Parenthood than we know any of the agencies of the Southern Baptist Convention. What does that tell you?

Again, there's no such thing as transparency in the Southern Baptist Convention. It's really it's an apostate convention, and it's going in a direction and it's rotting away in its heresies and its corruptions at a rate that sort of surprises me.

I can't believe how fast they're going down. Of course, as you know, for next year down in Louisiana, Brett Barber's going to appoint a committee that's going to look at these recommendations from the Guidepost investigation.

They're going to look at the recommendations that Guidepost made, and I think you're going to see most, if not all, of these things go right through. I think that's what you'll see. What concerns me I know a lot of people on my side of the fence, on the conservative side, say, you know, we can win New Orleans and so forth.

But I tell you what, if the pastors of the Southern Baptist Convention can't rise up against something as simple, clear, plain as plagiarism, how in the world are they going to rise up to this stuff? I just don't see it.

You know, people talk about the conservative resurgence of the 80s, and we can repeat this, but in the conservative resurgence of the 80s, you had people in the churches ready to go. You had pastors ready to stand up.

I don't see that right now. I just don't see it. Now, there are certain groups who are trying, but I just do not see the rank and file in the Southern Baptist Convention doing anything right now on this.

And even the leaders, you know, some of them still call these guys good brothers and so forth. And I'm like, ugh. You don't bring, like, cultural Marxism into the Southern Baptist Convention, and you're a good brother.

You know, a good brother doesn't bring in Me Too-ism to the Southern Baptist Convention. And so, and then really the soft peddling of homosexuality that we have. I think that's going to be becoming a bigger and bigger issue in the Southern Baptist Convention because, again, things like same-sex attracted Christianity is being accepted.

It's accepted at Southern. You can go and see videos of Herschel York, who's the dean at the School of Theology at Southern Seminary. He interviews the Anglican priest. Sam Alberry. Yeah, Sam Alberry.

And I mean, he's all with the guy about same-sex attracted and so forth. And of course, you know, Alberry will say things like, we're all sexually broken. And they're trying to level off. You know, there's no difference really between homosexuality and heterosexuality.

You know, it's all sin. He's trying to level. And Moeller's like, that's right. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And so, again, and again, Moeller repenting. Remember that term, repenting, that he does not believe in sexual orientation.

Now he does. He repented that he did not believe it. That implies that if you don't believe in sexual orientation, according to Al Moeller, you're in sin, you see. This is, we're far down the road on homosexuality as well.

And I think down the road, what you're seeing in the PCA, I think the PCA is a little ahead of us, at least on this issue or the revoice issue or whatever. But I think it's coming to the Southern Baptist Convention as well.

It seems like once you start having those conversations of, you know, women pastors and whatnot, normally the same-sex attraction stuff is right behind it. That's right. See, here's the thing.

Once you accept any of these vain philosophies, what's wrong with the other vain philosophy that comes down? So suppose you accept something like critical race theory. What's going to stop you from Me Too?

What's going to stop you from same-sex attracted Christianity or the so-called B-side? I like, they call it B-side. That's just the same-sex attracted folks. If you go to the A-side, then that's a real gay guy right there.

The thing is, you know, when you say A-side, B-side, it reminds me of the old records. It's the same record, whether it's an A-side or B-side. And so to me, whether you're A-side or B-side, you're promoting homosexuality.

And this stuff is accepted. And by the way, when you see these things, let me assure you, these things are far deeper at the seminaries and the agencies. Because you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg, you see.