My Hypocrisy Meter Explodes; Tony Palmer's Jesuitical Ploy; Ahmed Deedat Says the Trinity Produces Homosexuality

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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to produce what is called an ordo salutis and or the dividing line will begin in one minute.

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And in fact, what they're really actively promoting is that we have gone too far.

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We have. I guess you're right.

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It does need to be ironed, but that that pretty thing there. I'm trying to remember who gave that to me because it was at a church someplace.

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And I just commented just how much I love the color in it. And so they gave it to me and it's been hanging over there, which, of course, no one can see for years.

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And now you can see it. So and we have the lava lamp, lava, lava.

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It's doing the lava thing real well now. And who was it in channel? It was whining taco.

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Taco says that that's distracting. OK, hold on a second.

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Kick taco lava kick there. Oh, wait a minute.

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That would help fuse there. Well, so much for that. If if taco was in channel, he would have just been kicked, but maybe he'll catch us later and we'll feel kicked in absentia.

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But I'll kick him later on. Anyways, I would like to be all excited about all these things, and I am.

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But I will confess. Hypocrisy makes me ill.

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Now, on some level, we're all hypocritical because none of us live absolutely perfectly in line with everything we say we believe.

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That's what sin's all about. Anybody who's a Christian who then sins, I suppose there's a level of hypocrisy there.

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That's a bookend. That's. You don't know how I got in here. Oh, you don't.

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You did not bring this in here. Oh, I just noticed it sitting there and I'm like.

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Oh, it's Arlen's fault. OK, all right. We will we will dispose of the bookend at some.

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Well, most likely he thought, wow, you sound awesome. Do I? Yes. You got a new microphone. Yes. He probably.

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And it has a cool little pop. He probably looks like a Star Wars thing to me. He probably thought that since we were bringing books into the room that we needed a bookend, that would be the logical thing.

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Yeah, I don't know. But I want to point out to everybody what's down on the shelf down there.

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Yeah. For certain folks out there in the world who are certainly going to be.

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Doing some kind of conspiracy thing about me, just just so you catch it, there's

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Codex Sinaiticus right down there on the shelf. That's that's the nice big. It's got to be 40 pounds.

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It really has to be 40 plus. Western culture. I will call it what it is.

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It's homoterrorism. The homoterrorists want to silence anyone.

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Who not only disagrees with that, that's a given now. But who refuses to celebrate their sexuality.

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If you will not celebrate it. You have no place in our society.

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Shut up, go away. Work in a gas station. We will not have you. That's where these people are.

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It is amazing the hypocrisy that is going on here. The level is my meter exploded today when this happened.

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A thousand dollar donation. Where did that information come from? OK, I mean, so clearly what has happened there in California is this is meant to freeze, to chill anyone who would dare to participate in the political spectrum that does not agree with the new prevailing immorality of our culture.

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If you have morals, if you have ethics, what's even worse is these people saying the new morals and the new ethics, which they'll never defend, are that you must believe as we believe.

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And you know what? As far as I can tell, it's already over with in in the United States. It's already over with.

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The 1984 truth speak is in full swing in the

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United States of America. GLAAD, for example, one of the pro -homosexual, anti -family, anti -Christian morality, etc.,

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etc. organizations that is that gets millions of dollars from almost every corporation because of the corporation.

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The corporation has to pay the money is hush money. Basically, they just have to pay them off. Said via email from President and CEO Sarah Kate Ellis, Mozilla's strong statement in favor of equality today reflects where corporate

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America is inclusive, safe and welcoming to all. How can people write this stuff without their heads exploding?

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Don't they recognize inclusive? Except if you happen to be in the majority of people in California in 2008.

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Inclusive unless you don't agree with us. You're not inclusive.

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You're the most exclusive people on the planet. Stop using words that don't mean what you are using them to mean.

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That's dishonest. He wasn't safe. He was there wasn't welcoming to all.

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Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Inclusive, safe and welcoming to all who agree with us and walk down the line with us on every single thing.

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What hypocrisy? It's incredible. I just it's really, really hard to even be.

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But you know where it's been lost. There is a Janet Mefford tweeted tweeted an article on Slate .com

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by Will Ormus. If you're against gay marriage, you're a bad CEO.

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And here is what you need to understand is that the fundamental argument that has won the day they probably couldn't tell you other than the factor like two sisters shouldn't be able to marry.

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Two brothers shouldn't be able to marry grandmother, grandson, grandfather, granddaughter. Nah, I don't think so.

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But when you ask why and start to apply all of the arguments that have been used for homosexual redefinition of marriage, then they're left going, well, my favorite singing group didn't come out with a song on this, so I don't know.

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They're not for marriage equality. Who had ever heard of marriage equality before this?

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In this sense, it's marriage redefinition and everybody knows that. But it's won the day.

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I mean, people just go, oh, yeah, you know, I want everybody to be equal. It is. I think there's only one group that can understand how it is that this small minority has come to wield such power to not only demand uber rights, but to demand in reality that all of us bow down and celebrate their sexuality, even when it is completely offensive to the rest of us.

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There's only one group that can understand that, and that's Christians. Biblical, sound -minded

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Christians. Because even the social conservative that does not have the word of God looks at this and goes, wow, it was fast.

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I wonder, hmm, I wonder what the, oh, I guess it must be, you know, influence of Hollywood or this thing and that, so on and so forth.

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I don't know. We understand it. I mean, the scriptures tell us rather plainly exactly why this is happening.

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And we've read the text before, but let me direct you to it.

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Romans chapter 1, after describing the sinfulness of man in rather full detail, but let's go ahead and remind ourselves what it says, beginning at verse 28, and just as they did not see fit to acknowledge

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God any longer, literally to have in their epinosis, in their acknowledgment, in their minds, and in their recognition of what's true,

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God paradidomi -ed them. He gave them over. Same word used of the betrayal of Jesus.

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He gave them over to a adocimon nun, adocimon nun, debased mind, depressed by God.

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There is a, there's some sound linguistic argumentation that could be offered for that, but we'll go with the standard.

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Haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful, and here's the text.

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And although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

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Sin loves company. Sin wants to propagate itself. Sinners feel more comfortable in the presence of other sinners.

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This is the same message that John has when he tells us that those who are not right with God flee the light.

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They love darkness. So, the scriptures explain to us that the

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Holy Spirit of God functions to restrain the evil of men. But there are times when in judgment,

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God withdraws that restraining hand. And that, my friends, is the only way to explain how in a matter of years, in just a matter of years, a brief period of time, in our society, someone who gave a small amount of money, for most of us, it was actually a large amount of money, but not in comparison to what these people over there can throw around.

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I mean, the people who are throwing millions and millions and millions into promotion of perversity and destruction of family and the nation, oh, they're celebrated, mainly because they also contribute to politicians too.

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But here's someone who contributes a small amount of money in a political campaign to simply maintain the view of marriage that has been held by mankind from the beginning.

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And don't get me, oh, but people believe in polygamy. That's not what it was about. It was about the fact that marriage is between a man and a woman.

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That marriage can only be defined in a heterosexual way. That marriage has a meaning.

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That the direct object defines the meaning. That it has meaning in the participants, husband and wife.

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When you look at two men, you don't have a husband, you don't have a wife. We look at two women, you don't have a husband, you don't have a wife. It's common sense.

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It's basic morality. And this man donated a small amount of money to say that is the way marriage should be.

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Which by the way, just in passing, I might want to note in 2008 was the same position as the current president of the

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United States. Somehow he wasn't kept from being fit for office in the by taking that stand, huh?

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Hmm, strange. Again, the level of hypocrisy meter exploded. But what can explain that in just a matter of years, doing something that was morally good and praiseworthy, he was participating in the political process.

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And he was promoting something that is proper and appropriate. And now, you can't work here anymore.

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If you're against gay marriage, you're a bad CEO. There's only one thing

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I can explain, the speed at which the moral compass has done a 180.

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And that which was once good and is still good is being called evil.

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And that which was evil and is still evil is being called good. Now, this involves the rape of the language.

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But you see, since the equality argument as vacuous and absurd and empty an excuse for redefining marriage as it is, has been accepted.

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And the only reason we can say it's been accepted is because God has withdrawn his hand of restraint.

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And therefore, what is so obviously immoral, what is so obviously illogical, is now being touted by so many in our society.

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Doesn't make it right. But one thing's awful clear. Those folks are going to be moving as quickly as possible to make sure that no one can point it out.

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Free speech. Everyone has the right to participate in the political process.

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Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're going to hear it from these folks awful quickly. If you're against gay marriage, you're a bad

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CEO. Next step, if you're against gay marriage, you should not participate in the political process. Right?

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It's the next step. It's right around the corner coming faster than we ever thought.

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Oh, it couldn't happen, really. In 2008, would anyone have really thought when they wrote out that check in support of Proposition 8 that this in only six years would mean you could not hold a position of any kind of meaningful authority in Silicon Valley?

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No. But it happened. Only took six years. Less than six years, really. That's how fast.

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That's how fast judgment. Yeah, folks. Judgment. It's judgment based upon the fact there's been a tremendous amount of light in this nation, in this culture, tremendous amount of light.

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And we have sinned against it on a level that is very difficult to begin to understand.

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We don't take in any way, shape or form the depth of our rebellion in our culture seriously.

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So God now allows us to murder our unborn children and to celebrate the perversion of the first institution that he gave to mankind to preserve mankind, to lead us into life and the deepest experience of life and love.

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We're perverting all of it. And it's judgment.

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It's judgment. There's no two ways about it. So I was raised to love my country.

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But I look around and I realize my country does not love me in any way, shape or form.

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And that my love needs to be focused upon my true commitment, and that is to a heavenly city.

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Reminds me of some passages I've preached out of Hebrews chapter 11 and Hebrews chapter, well, all of Hebrews really.

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But anyway, so an amazing, amazing, amazing thing to observe this.

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While we can still object, but Larry Hurtado and others have demonstrated that's simply not the case.

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And we just don't know. I mean, there's been a lot of theories, but we don't know. The Nomina Sacra, of course, are the abbreviations in the maguscule

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Greek texts, the papyri, where you abbreviate God, Lord, Jesus Christ, et cetera, et cetera.

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There's been a number of theories, but the best conclusions today are we don't know.

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We don't know. Um, anyways, um, I'm way, way, way, way, way behind on this particular, we may be taking calls later on.

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There's only one problem. Uh, you took the number down. So I don't remember. I know

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I have it on here. Uh, yeah. Oh, thank you very much. But you took it down. So I can't, you know, I can't just look up there and go eight, seven, seven, seven, five, three, three, three, four, one.

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Uh, so, uh, you know, you'll have to stick it on the glass or something like that on that side. So I can actually see it again.

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Um, you get, but that's, that's not going to work besides that.

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I couldn't see you. So there's a reason why there's just a reason.

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Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There you go. Yeah. There's, there's a number. Um, I'm way behind on this.

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I've had it on the list for a long time. Um, we did talk about it briefly, but I want to go back.

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Let's see, when is this too early, uh, early March or late February? I forget which one it was. And, uh,

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I remember when Pope Francis sent a, uh, a video greeting to Kenneth Copeland and all the word faith guys.

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Well, the guy that arranged that is a guy named

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Bishop Tony Palmer. And I have to admit that it was

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Palmer's comments before playing it that were significantly more troubling than most of what, uh, the

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Pope had to say in my opinion. Anyway. Um, uh, you can control that in there.

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I'm sure to a degree. Okay. All right. Well, um, that's not where it's supposed to be for, uh, for old radio guys, but, uh, you know, supposed to new technology, huh?

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Okay. All right. Well, once I spit on it enough times, it'll, it'll, it'll stop being so sensitive.

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New technology, new techniques. Uh, yeah. Right. Okay. Um, still bugs me anyways.

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Uh, this guy, uh, Tony Palmer, I want to play some of his comments and I want you to listen because you know what we say around here.

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Theology matters. And, uh, you know, it's interesting.

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I hadn't thought of this transition, but there is a, there is transition here. Um, as our society ever more seeks to marginalize anyone who would speak the truth within its realm.

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Um, Apple as definitional of the faith and those who are not, we've talked many times about the mere

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Christianity movement, uh, the people who promote the mere Christianity idea that, well, you know, there's this, you know, you really want to come up with a real small little area.

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This defines Christianity as sort of the Trinity and the cross and the resurrection.

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And that's pretty much it. Gospel. No, no, no, no, no. Can't be in there. Can't be in there. Can't put the, put the gospel in there.

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Views of scripture. Um, that's, there's too much disagreement on that.

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So that needs to be left off. That's not definitional of Christianity. See, you've got the big boat thing going on basically. Well, certainly once people are compromised theologically, like the word faithers are, where you don't have any meaningful, serious exegesis of the text, then they are defenseless against what

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Peter Kreeft would probably identify as the ecumenical Jihad. Uh, they're, they're defenseless against the onslaughts of Rome.

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And this came out so clearly, uh, in this

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Bishop Tony Palmer's comments. So let's take a look at what Tony Palmer said.

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Let's listen to what he said, um, to, now he's a, he's an

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Episcopalian, which means he can believe almost anything he wants. Uh, especially in the United States being

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Episcopalian means really nothing, but let's, let's take a look at what he said and do a little analysis.

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So tonight, the Pope, it's a historic moment because I've never,

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I've served three Popes because I started working with them when John Paul was still alive. And then the

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Pope Benedict and now Pope Francis. And you know, Pope Francis, Saint Francis of Assisi was an open charismatic.

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This is the first Pope in history that took the Francis' name because he's openly charismatic.

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And this is history that we've got a Pope who recognizes us as brothers and sisters, speaks to us as brothers and sisters, and has sent a message to us.

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And you'll see what the message is about. And I need you to at least understand a little bit of the, the history behind this.

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Because we are living in an incredibly important generation. I believe that God has brought me here to this year's ministers' conference in the spirit of Elijah.

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Let me explain. If you look carefully, the spirit of Elijah was on John the

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Baptist to turn the hearts of the sons to the fathers, and to turn the hearts of the fathers to the sons, to prepare the way for the

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Lord. And we know that prophecy always has a double fulfillment. And we know that Elijah will come before the second coming as well.

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And I've understood that the spirit of Elijah is the spirit of reconciliation, to return hearts to each other.

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Now see, just, just in passing, see, once you have a group of people who have been constantly exposed to this kind of eisegesis, to this idea of, of, of prophets who get to have a special word, and therefore they can say this means this, and that means that.

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I mean, these people have been listening to Kenneth Copeland speaking such foolishness for so long, they have no discernment.

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And so this guy can come along and say, oh, here's, here's Elijah. I come in the spirit of Elijah.

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And, and we're going to turn the hearts of the sons to the fathers and the fathers to the sons.

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And what's he talking about? He's talking about unity with Rome. He's talking about reunifying the church.

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And these folks have absolutely no basis upon which to say, I'm not sure about that because what are they going to say?

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What are they going to say? Are they actually going to make an argument based upon the gospel? No. In fact, he's going to, you know, this

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Tony Palmer and all these ecumenists, ecumenists, they all quote from the unofficial non -dogmatic status statement on justification with the liberal

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Lutherans from a number of years ago as if, well, this means we all agree now.

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We're all in the same boat. And most of these folks don't know enough about justification to catch any of that anyways.

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But what's worse, don't know enough about Roman theology to recognize the centrality of transubstantiation and the mass and the sacramental system and, and, and all the other things to translate the language.

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And so they're defenseless. It's just sort of like, well, it sounds good. It's very important.

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We know that the first thousand years, there was one church, it was called the Catholic church. And the word

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Catholic means universal. It doesn't mean Roman. Catholic means, if you're born again, raise your hand if you're born again, you're a

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Catholic. Yeah, well,

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Catholic doesn't mean Roman and Roman Catholic is an oxymoron. Uh, but the guy that you're about to play the video from to look back and go, eh, you know, it wasn't as bad as we've been told.

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But if you actually know something about history, then you very well know how

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Rome viewed the reformers. Just, just ask the Jesuits. Just ask

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Ignatius Loyola, uh, Francis de Sales. Ask those folks if it was just simply a denominational quarrel.

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And they'll tell you, read the canons and decrees, the council of Trent. Eh, it's not really, you know, just a denominational thing.

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Now, check out what comes after this. There it is again, 33 ,000 new denominations.

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Oh, you know, sometimes you might as well just give up. Um, it doesn't matter that there aren't 33 ,000 nominations.

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Since everybody says there is, we might as well forget about it. And the council of Nicaea decide the canon.

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It didn't, but everybody keeps saying it did. So eventually why don't we just go, ah, who cares?

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Doesn't matter. I, there are days that I feel like that to be perfect.

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It's just sort of like, ah, look how serious is 33 ,000 denominations.

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There were only three. Uh, and you know, we don't want to talk about, uh, you know, the

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Franciscans and the Dominicans and then the Jesuits and the Carmelites and, you know, the stuff that went,

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I worry about that. I want to talk about that. No, no, no, no, no. That's that's.

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I've come to understand that diversity is divine. It's division. That's diabolic. It's true.

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What you were saying about the glory. I agree with you. Of course it's true. The glory that the father had, he gave to Jesus.

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The glory was the presence of God. What is the charismatic renewal? It's when we experience the presence of God.

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And he said, and I give them the glory, pragmatic reason. So did you see something here, folks?

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Do you see something here? I've discussed this with some other folks in the past, but we, you've got to, you've got to see something when, so this is how you, this is how you can get past the doctrinal issue.

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This is how you can get past all of the things that Rome has added to the gospel and brought the anathema of God upon her for doing is you just go, let's, let's not worry about the, uh, the doctrine part because we've got the glory.

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If you don't have the teaching, you don't have the glory, whatever you want to call the stuff you're doing, all your emotional, happy, clappy stuff.

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It ain't the glory. It ain't the glory. Don't even pretend it is. It's the glory.

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If you accept that Christ is living in me and the presence of God is in me and the presence of God is in you, that's all we need because God will sort out all our doctrines when we get upstairs.

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Ha. Yeah. Well, here's someone who is not under the authority of the word of God because if he really believes that he would have to rebuke severely, uh, the apostle

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Paul. Galatians must not be in his canon or it's rather wildly redefined.

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Therefore, Christian unity is the basis of our credibility because Jesus said until they won, they will not believe.

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The world will not believe as they should until we are one. Division destroys our credibility.

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It is fear that keeps us separated because fear is false evidence appearing real. It's an acronym

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F E A R false evidence appearing real because most of your fear is based on propaganda.

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Do you, do you see what this guy's doing? I mean, this is the old term that most people don't know anymore.

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Jesuitical. Jesuitical. Here is a Jesuitical man. He may be a president and sorry,

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Presbyterian brothers and Episcopalian. But the funny thing is, you know,

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I have King James only guys, uh, who, who say I actually don't ride a bike.

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That's when I'm being trained by the Jesuits and stuff like that. Did you, you didn't, hadn't heard that one? Oh yeah. Yeah. I've got, there was,

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I may have been awk. I forget what, which of the Looney tunes that love to follow me around that has suggested that.

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But, um, you want, you want Jesuits, you want Jesuitical activity.

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I've, you almost can't see anything any better than this. This is now, it's not like he has to work very hard at this audience that has zippity -doo -dah.

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I'm managing to get zippity -doo -dah into every program now. And I must be the paint fumes, but, uh, well, that doesn't explain it.

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I think cause I use zippity -doo -dah before we painted. So therefore my thesis has been refuted, but, uh, anyway, uh, has n this group has no discernment to begin with.

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So he doesn't have to work very hard, but this is Jesuitical speaking.

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Pervert the truth just enough to sneak in the claims of Rome. That's, that's what's going on here.

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And that's what preceded the papal presentation.

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Now, why is it historic? Because in 1999, the

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Roman Catholic church and the Protestant Lutheran church, the liberal Lutherans signed an agreement that brought in non -dogmatic, non -binding to the protest, brought an end to the protest.

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There you go, folks. You didn't know it, but, um, it's time to come home to Rome because the liberal

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Lutherans and the Catholics signed a non -binding non -dogmatic, uh, uh, agreement that ended the protest.

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It's good to know that we can go home now. Luther believed that we were saved by grace through faith alone.

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Oh, thank you. Amen. But that's not it.

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The Catholic church believed that we were saved by works. No. And that was the protest.

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No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was not. Someone recently, uh,

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I wonder if I could find it. I wonder if it's still there. Oh, it was there.

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Except I couldn't play it on this anyways, cause I've got the wrong one. But, uh, someone had tweeted to, uh,

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Mozilla some. Yeah, there it is. There it is. Evidently he figures, well, these people will know that.

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So I can get away with a real whopper here. Well, it is just that a real whopper.

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In 1999, they wrote this together because in the

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Protestant church, we had a lot of cheap salvations. People were getting born again, but no fruit whatsoever. And because we didn't even look for fruits, it wasn't the issue because it wasn't necessary for salvation.

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And no, it's not, but it's a good judge if you are saved. So what these two churches did, they put the two definitions together.

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Listen to it. I'm reading verbatim from the Catholic Vatican website. Justification means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the

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Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together, we

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Catholics and Protestants, Lutherans, believe and confess that by grace alone, in faith, in Christ's saving works, and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the

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Holy Spirit who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.

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Now, did you catch what he missed? I'm not saying he misread the statement, but you catch what was missing there.

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Faith alone. Well, why is that important? Because it sounded so good, so balanced. But what Rome has done all along, and he's doing the same thing, is he's leaving just this much room, just that much room to sneak the entire sacramental system of Rome in.

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That's why they won't say faith alone. Now, they hide that by saying, oh, but look at all the New Testament says about good works.

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That's what we're talking about. They have to find a way to sneak the entire sacramental system in.

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And that's exactly what they're doing. It's exactly what they're doing. Ever since evangelicals and Catholics together, the 1999

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Lutheran statement, which is not dogmatically binding on the sea of Rome, it's always just to find a way to keep that door just enough open to get the sacramental system in to maintain the

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Roman perversion of the gospel. And how do they respond?

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Yee -haw. Okay, there you go. There's more.

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But what happens when there is no discernment? No discernment in an entire organization, in an entire movement?

38:19

Well, you just saw what happens. And that is you end up with that kind of capitulation.

38:28

Now, Protestants 200 years ago, 300 years ago would not have had the slightest problem in recognizing where he misrepresented history, misrepresented the issue, misrepresented

38:43

Rome, misrepresented the Protestants, would have had any problem at all. But today, not the way it is.

38:56

Quit whining. Quit whining. I'm, I am old enough to do what, see this,

39:02

I get to do what I want to do. All right. Okay.

39:10

Now, what we're gonna do is I'm gonna finish up the Akama didot clip from yesterday.

39:15

And then we're gonna open the phones at 877 -753 -3341.

39:27

See, there's, that's what I've been looking at all these years. We had it taped up on the border of the window or the window?

39:34

I think it was the window. That's why we take it down. Well, we had tape stuff, but wasn't on the border.

39:41

Oh, okay. Well, we'll have to put back up there again. This is high tech, guys.

39:47

This is you say you couldn't put on your screen somewhere? Um, no, not really.

39:53

I suppose I could over there. Yeah. But then I have to look down to do it. So there's, there's the number 877 -753 -3341.

40:03

What's that? Something's wonky with it? With the didot thing? The VLC thing?

40:09

Yeah. I'm, I'm seeing a weirdness here. Um, I, I don't have any idea why do

40:16

I need to move it? Um, maybe, I don't know. I mean, it's like, I'm just seeing the chalkboard. I don't know why. And well, it says

40:24

VLC media player. And there's only one choice out of that. And that's shake Akama didot to all Christians. Um, it's like I'm zoomed way in on it here.

40:32

Weirdness. Let me, I'm tweaking, tweaking, tweaking. Hey, that worked. Hello.

40:38

So it was on your end, not my end. Okay. Just saying. Yes, there are look at someone, someone noted that there are three sevens and three threes in our phone number.

40:57

And those are two very good numbers, seven and three. Okay. That's this is a, this would go over well with certain people.

41:07

Okay. You got it. You got it. All right. We're going to finish this up and then take your phone calls.

41:13

Eight, seven, seven, seven, five, three, three, three, four, one number.

41:20

It's a, you think you've repeated that enough time over your life? Yeah. Well, I'm getting old. Eight, seven, seven, seven, five, three, three, three, four, one.

41:28

If you'd like to comment on the Brandon Ike situation on the clip

41:33

I just played, uh, what we talked about yesterday, which I remember what it was anyways, uh, whatever.

41:40

Uh, now it's time to be calling in. We've only got a few minutes on this, uh, D dot thing to respond and, uh, should be able to have maybe the last 15 minutes of the program for calls.

41:50

So, uh, here we, uh, here we go. Did you see?

41:57

So, so I say, my dear child, I said, there's something wrong with your flower.

42:02

Maybe this would be a really good thing to throw in there, uh, for our trip to South Africa.

42:10

Um, could I find this? I had just thought, had this thought. I'm gonna throw it out here. Uh, maybe, um, maybe

42:18

Rudolph will catch this. My good friend, brother there in South Africa. But what

42:23

I would love to see happen would be a debate in South Africa on whether Jesus is prophesied in the

42:32

Bible from someone I'm sorry, where the Muhammad is prophesied the Bible from someone who would defend knows and would defend

42:39

D dots presentation. That would be awesome. I would love to do that. Make it a nice long debate, make it a daytime debate, make it a two part debate.

42:49

I don't care, but we have taken this apart thoroughly.

42:56

I have yet many things to say unto you, but he cannot bear them now. How beat when he, the spirit of truth is come.

43:04

He will guide you into all truth for he shall not speak from himself, but what is the shell he here that shall he speak and he shall declare and to use the things that he shall glorify me masculine pronouns in one verse.

43:17

I said it will be fixed. The ghost is food or the spirit. You agree? Uh, no, I do not.

43:23

Because the Holy spirit is a person and no person who actually knew the Greek language would ever make the argument.

43:28

He just did. He did not know it. And anybody who defends the idea that he did is, uh, being dishonest masculine pronouns in one verse.

43:37

He's talking about a man, a man, a man, a man, a person, a person, a spirit, and he'll guide you into all truth.

43:44

Meaning he'll supply guide you, you, the apostles, not someone in 600 years later, you, you, you, he will be in you read the whole thing.

43:54

He couldn't read the whole thing because that's not what it teaches all your problems. You haven't got them. Your surplus women ask

44:00

Jimmy Swaggart and your follower and your believer hands ask them. What is the answer?

44:06

Speechless. You haven't got the answer. Speechless. Speechless. The answer is the pouring out of the spirit of God and the resultant repentance of men and women and embracing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

44:25

What do you mean they're speechless? He hasn't written a book on polygamy. Swaggart about surplus women.

44:30

He doesn't write. Why doesn't he write? You know why? He's written more than 30. I own them. He won't touch this subject.

44:36

You know why? You haven't got the answer. Anybody who makes

44:42

Jimmy Swaggart the standard of Christian theology and response, again, so far out of balance, not even funny.

44:52

Of course the answer is there, but he, as if he hasn't seen it. You know, Jesus said, seeing they see not, hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

45:00

That's really descriptive of Swaggart. About your followers and your lesbians. He's quoting a verse in his book on homosexuals.

45:06

He starts that book, two and a half page quotation. Imagine a quotation lasting two and a half page.

45:13

First page, second page, and another half page, two and a half page quotation from the book of Romans. In which he quotes, in that verses, in those verses, he quotes the reason for this sickness.

45:24

He's saying homosexuals, it's cause and it's cure. That's the title of the book.

45:31

So he quotes, and I'm quoting now, he says, professing themselves to be wise.

45:38

Who in Romans 9 .5 is going to identify Jesus as God. This is the same apostle

45:44

Paul. Shabir Ali admitted. Interestingly enough, Bart Ehrman in his new book admits, even though he uses completely wild categories to do it, clearly identified

45:56

Jesus as a divine person. Philippians chapter two, identifying him as eternally pre -existent, equal with the father, applies the name

46:10

Yahweh to him, etc, etc, etc. This is Paul. So either you've got the modern

46:17

Muslim apologists who will say, oh well, hey, Paul is to blame for all this.

46:24

Now you've got DDOT saying that Paul was actually saying that the reason for homosexuality is the exaltation of Jesus.

46:30

Now there is no meaningful, it is impossible to defend that from the text. What Paul was talking about, which any serious reading the text would show, is the fact that there has been a perversion.

46:44

That even though they know God exists, they will not honor him as God and give thanks. Instead of honoring him, they turn their worship to the created order.

46:55

And Paul doesn't say that Jesus is a created being that we've just elevated to the status of being

47:02

God. That is a, again, gross ignorance, not only of what Christians believe, but a gross mishandling of the text of scripture.

47:10

It's horrific. Could never have survived a meaningful debate with anyone who actually knew the

47:17

Bible, but DDOT did not know the Bible. Serving a man instead of the supreme being, you're worshipping and serving a creature instead of the creator.

47:28

Now who is he talking about? You Christians. You are the one who brought God down to this level.

47:34

You said God must come down to earth. He won't understand our problems otherwise. You know, he must understand how we feel.

47:41

Again, I would imagine DDOT probably ran into Christians who were so ignorant of the faith that they used arguments like that.

47:48

So, okay, bad on them, but bad on him for not realizing that you cannot caricature an entire religion based upon ignorant people.

48:01

It's real easy to do to Islam too. Real easy to do to Islam. A truthful person won't do it.

48:08

So he's so loving, he came down to earth and he lived, born of a woman, carried him for nine months, born like any other human child, circumcised on the eighth day, growing like any other human being, eating food and calling, call of nature, running to the toilet.

48:20

God, you brought him down to that level? For that, God says, is I give you punishment. Your women will become lesbians and your men become sodomites.

48:28

Why don't you, look, you read the whole book and by God, he says, for this cause, the book says.

48:34

You hear the Muslims in the audience, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar. They're Allahu Akbar -ing abject ignorance on an amazing level.

48:42

This should embarrass anyone who promotes this man. Should embarrass, and yet it was sent to me and it's posted to all

48:50

Christians. Listen to this. This is great. Wow. And again, anybody in South Africa want to defend this?

48:58

You want to go to Romans 1? Let's just do Romans 1. How about it? I'll be happy to, be happy to.

49:06

Let's just do, does Romans 1, as Akhmed Didat said, teach that worshiping

49:13

Jesus results in God making people, making women lesbians and men homosexuals?

49:20

Because that's what Akhmed Didat said. That's what Akhmed Didat said. Anybody want to defend that?

49:26

No, I'm sure there isn't. I'm sure there isn't. Most folks recognize the indefensible.

49:33

Oh, then it's cure. That word is never used as if you never read it. So Jesus said, seeing they see not, hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

49:42

They already made up their minds. But this exercise I say is for those who have eyes to see, ears to hear, let them hear.

49:49

That look, you are not reading the book. When you be reading it, you're misunderstanding it, you're misinterpreting it. Please, do us a favor and say, please talk to us.

49:58

We want to have a dialogue with you. We want to talk to you, you see, and see our point of view. Maybe we are wrong.

50:04

We want you to reprogram us as we want to reprogram you. But the language is me, myself.

50:09

I just can't help it. I am a born a militant fellow in a militant family. My father was militant. I am militant.

50:15

My brothers are all militant and I can't help it. You know, my voice, my size, everything, you know, creates that impression that I'm fighting you.

50:22

I'm scolding you. But you know, my child, I'm not doing that. I recall this. First one is in regards to the

50:27

Qur 'an and the transmission of the Qur 'an as according to 3rd 61 verse 6.

50:36

Excuse me. Because when I read 3rd 61 verse 6, it seems to be the only

50:42

Qur 'anic claim that's Jesus speaking about Muhammad.

50:48

And I was wondering, have you ever made or ever asked for a

50:53

Muslim to substantiate if this is in any Christian literature before? Oh yeah.

50:59

Well, it's not the only one. Surah 7, verse 157 also says that the people of the book read in their scriptures about the unlettered prophet.

51:10

So there are two specific places where the Qur 'an demands that Muslims find in our scriptures prophecies of Muhammad.

51:22

So there's two different places that they go to. Have you seen my debates with Shabir Ali on this subject?

51:27

Oh, I'm very familiar with all of your debates. Okay. And with Zakir Hussain as well.

51:33

So... Yeah. Go ahead. Well, go ahead. So what do you...

51:39

Maybe I'm not understanding your question then, Courtney. Oh, okay. Well, I was just wondering if you've ever brought that up to one, because, you know, when

51:45

I speak to Muslims, I'm a Christian as well, whatnot, but when I'm speaking to Muslims and we get to talking about the

51:53

Bible being not sent down and containing guidance and truth, and then we'll go throughout the

52:00

Qur 'an, it seems that the 3rd 61 verse 6 is the only one that's alluding to an actual possible quotation of Jesus, because the passage begins with, and remember when

52:11

Jesus said, you know, unlike the other passage that you brought up from the other passage.

52:16

Right, right, right, right, right. So what you're asking is, have I ever challenged them to give me some historical grounding for this type of thing?

52:25

Right, right, right. Well, I actually have mentioned a number of times that not only here, but there are other places where the

52:37

Qur 'an uses the language of remembrance when making reference to events in Jesus's life as well that we know actually come from secondary sources.

52:49

They come from the Arabic infancy gospel or the infancy gospel of Thomas or other such much later sources that are not historically actually accurate or related to the life of Jesus or things like that.

53:01

So something I have brought up a number of times is that the author of the Qur 'an clearly does not know what is accurate in Jesus's life and what is inaccurate in Jesus's life.

53:11

He just pulls from all these different sources, which would make sense if what we believe about the

53:18

Qur 'an and about Muhammad was the case, that he's living 600 years later, doesn't have direct knowledge of the situation, and is just pulling from what he's familiar with.

53:28

But yeah, it would—obviously it is a very important challenge to say, well, if you're going to say to the al -al -kitab or the al -al -anjeel, and remember when

53:40

Jesus, the son of Mary, said, if their response is, uh, when did he say that?

53:49

Then you're going to have to back that up somehow. So for the

53:55

Muslim to be saying, well, you know, I like what Bart Ehrman has to say about the Gospels, and I think it's okay to run to Mark in priority and to dismiss

54:06

John because John's too late. And then they embrace something like this that comes from 600 years after Jesus.

54:15

Hey, anybody who's going to believe Surah 61 -6 better not have any problem with the

54:22

Gospel of John, which is a whole lot closer. I mean, it's a consistency issue. So yeah, it's come up in things like that, but I don't remember ever simply asking a

54:33

Muslim specifically, okay, can you show me how a Christian could have accepted this and gone, oh yeah, that is what

54:43

Jesus said. I don't remember that specific element coming up, but it would be a perfectly valid question to ask.

54:49

No question about it. By the way, if you've asked people, what's been the response?

54:55

Oh my goodness. Interestingly enough, I had somebody from Y -Islam Information Line today, and I basically get a 27 -minute tangent about the whole belief from Islam, from the

55:08

Islamic perspective of revelation. Oh yeah. Well, that makes sense because fundamentally...

55:15

Absolutely no. I don't want to cut you off, but yeah, absolutely. No, no, no. Interaction with the question. Right, right.

55:20

Well, let's put it this way. The only meaningful answer you're going to get from a Muslim is going to be, well, we believe the

55:26

Quran is the word of God, and therefore it's true. And even if I can't answer your question, it's still true.

55:33

I mean, yeah, that's understandable. All right, and to switch gears real quick to my other question, pretty simple.

55:42

I'm currently attending GCU online, and I was wondering if...

55:47

Oh, by the way, Professor Andre Moody, he said he was a former student of mine. Yes, he is. Yes, he said what's up, and I gotta tell you, you did a really good job with him.

56:00

And it's funny, next week I'm actually teaching on campus at GCU on Wednesday morning with another guy who's teaching there who's also a former student of mine, so it's sort of like...

56:11

Matthew, is it Matt? Matt Hampton, yeah, yeah. Oh, he was one of my teachers, that's great. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to be teaching his class next

56:18

Wednesday, so... Oh, yes, but yes,

56:25

I was going to ask, what are some good resources for church history?

56:31

And I got the New Testament History book that they have for the class book, and I also got the

56:37

F .F. Bruce book of New Testament History. Do you have any other recommendations? Well, are you talking about New Testament History or Church History?

56:44

Because those are two different things. Both. I have, I can let you know this, I have the two -volume

56:49

Church History story of Church History by Gonzales. Uh -huh,

56:54

Justo Gonzales. And yeah, and I also... There's all sorts of different things, and they're going to be of different qualities, and you're going to have to exercise discernment with anything that you get hold of there.

57:07

The best way to deal with the Apostolic Fathers, for example, is to read them, they're just not that long. And in fact, one of the gentlemen you mentioned was in a class

57:16

I did on the development of patristic theology, and we had a lot of fun in that. Anyway, the best source still remains

57:23

Philip Schaff's massive eight -volume set, which can normally be obtained very cheaply if you just know where to look.

57:29

There's all sorts of used sets running around, a lot of it's available online now, I think, and things like that.

57:34

But Philip Schaff's History of the Christian Church remains sort of the standard. LaTourette's two -volume set, it's barely two volumes.

57:42

I mean, if you get the paper back, it will not hold together very long, it will fall apart because it's too thick to be bound in two volumes, it really should be three.

57:49

But Kenneth Scott LaTourette is important to have in there. But for most of the periods of Church History, you need to get books that are specifically on that period of Church History, to be perfectly honest with you.

57:59

And so, you know, get the Apostolic Fathers in the original languages. They've got

58:05

Greek and English diaglots available, Michael Holmes has some out, and things like that. But for the others, you know, you're going to find excellent books on the

58:14

Reformation period, you're going to find excellent works on Augustine, the Apologists, and things like that.

58:21

But then also you're going to find other stuff that's not all that good, too, so you have to be discerning. So, like,

58:27

I guess I'm pretty good at books already for just general over... Yes, yes, uh -huh, yeah, sure.

58:33

I'd add LaTourette to your list, but yeah, that's good. All right, no problem. Thank you very much, Dr. White.

58:38

All right, thanks, Courtney. Thanks for calling in. All right, God bless. Bye -bye. 877 -753 -3341.

58:44

Notice I did not look down that time. We have done it a few times. And let's talk with Kyle up in Canada.

58:51

Hi, Kyle. Hello, Dr. White. How's it going? Going good. Going good, great.

58:57

I had a question here, and it's on Ezekiel 3311, here. I'm sure you're probably aware of that passage.

59:06

And I've read in... Oh, sure. There's some Reformed works out there that talk about the dual wills, that God has a will to save the non -elect that he has not specifically decreed.

59:24

And I was just wondering how you would interpret Ezekiel 3311, and do you take that position that God has a desire that he has not specifically decreed, if that makes sense?

59:41

Well, yeah, we've addressed this a number of times before, very briefly. When people talk about the two wills of the prophets because of the saying that our fathers ate grapes, the children's teeth are set on edge, therefore we are suffering because of what our parents did, so we don't really have to listen to the call to repentance.

01:00:04

And so you notice the preceding verse, And you, son of man, say to the house of Israel, Thus have you said,

01:00:10

Surely our transgressions and our sins are upon us, and we rot away because of them. How then can we live? So what they're saying is, hey, there's no reason for us to be looking to the future.

01:00:19

There's no reason for us to be even considering repentance because we're just suffering for what's happened before us.

01:00:26

And so they're ignoring the prophetic call. And so when God says,

01:00:31

As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from evil ways, for why will you die,

01:00:39

O house of Israel? It's simply a recognition that if God sends prophets to present the message of repentance, then the proper response is to repent, that God is truly offering that opportunity.

01:00:53

If you then take that and say, well, what this means is, and this is unfortunately how this text has been abused,

01:01:01

I think, that God has decreed his own eternal unhappiness, that God has not decreed to demonstrate his power, that God has not decreed to demonstrate his justice in, for example, the despoiling of Egypt and the destruction of the

01:01:21

Egyptian gods and the destruction of Pharaoh's army in the Red Sea and all these other things, and that God took no pleasure in the demonstration of his power and his name and the destruction of those gods, now you've gone way beyond the context that Ezekiel 33 presents.

01:01:40

And so people then even drag it all the way out to making application going, well, you know what you need to do, if you're not going to be a hyper -Calvinist now, you need to affirm that God has eternally decreed that he is going to be confused, that he's going to stand upon, through all eternity, he's going to stand upon the parapets of hell and he's going to look into hell and he's just going to be so sad and he's going to be bummed out, he's going to be unhappy because he's decreed his own unhappiness, he's decreed his own schizophrenic mindset.

01:02:14

And there are people, and I can give you names of people, who will say that if you don't affirm that, you're a hyper -Calvinist.

01:02:21

And I say that's absurd. God's prescriptive will is very clear, his decretive will is very clear, but when you take all of scripture, not just parts of it, and put it all together, you need to do so in a balanced fashion.

01:02:39

And that's certainly what I think you have to do with Ezekiel 33, Romans 9, and numerous other texts that have to be allowed to speak with one voice rather than letting one side dominate the conversation.

01:02:52

Yeah, it just seems like a lot of popular Reformed writers, when it comes to like 2

01:02:58

Peter 3, 9 or Ezekiel 33, it's not so much, or the context of the passage kind of delimits it, it's more

01:03:06

God has kind of, like you said, a battle within himself. He wants to save the non -elect, but yet he hasn't decreed it, and it's kind of, you know, when that interpretation is presented,

01:03:19

I think it just creates more confusion than anything. Well, you will find that a few decades ago, there was an argument about this in the

01:03:29

OPC, and if you want to go read the one side that John Murray represented, you can read his paper, and then there is a counter argument from somebody from,

01:03:39

I forget the individual's name, it's a group of, you know, it's a Presbyterian thing when you've got committees, everything's written by a committee, nothing's written by just one person.

01:03:48

The point being that, even within that denomination, there is discussion of this issue. Today, you're not allowed to have that.

01:03:55

Again, if you don't take one side, you're going to have certain people who are really hoopah

01:04:02

Calvinists, who are going to accuse you of being a hyper -Calvinist, unless you affirm the confusion in the mind of God.

01:04:10

And we've gone over this many, many times before. You clearly have an issue in those texts that should be, first and foremost, exegetical.

01:04:20

But as you've observed, it normally isn't exegetical. It's taken at a higher theological level before it is ever looked at on an exegetical level.

01:04:30

So you're correct in what you've been looking at there. Hey, Kyle, got to get to one more call before we run out of time. Thank you.

01:04:36

All right, thank you for your call. Bye -bye. Okay, bye -bye. All right, let's, because he's been on hold for 25 minutes.

01:04:41

We'll try to get to Arlen, but I don't know that we're going to, depends. Eric in New York. Hi, Eric. Hey, how's it going?

01:04:48

Can you hear me? Yes, sir. Awesome. Yeah, great to finally talk to you. My first time trying to call in here.

01:04:54

You know, we'll listen from the beginning of the broadcast, so good to talk to you. Let's see here,

01:05:00

I just listened to your Revelation TV debate last night with Michael Brown on the atonement, that particular one, and I just wanted to get your take on what passage.

01:05:12

I basically kind of fall on your side of that issue, but I did want to get your take on one text that Michael Brown threw out.

01:05:19

He threw out a lot of texts. Most of them I kind of knew how to answer, but I wanted your take on 1

01:05:27

Timothy 4 .10. Right. Well, there's an entire discussion of this in the appendix to the second edition of The Potter's Freedom.

01:05:38

You'll see that there's a discussion of 1 Timothy 4 .10 that provides citations from a number of Greek scholars because it's focused specifically upon the meaning of the term malasta that is found at the end, because it says has esten soter panton anthropon malasta pistone.

01:05:59

Malasta is translated normally as especially. In particular, there are other ways of translating it.

01:06:10

There was some interesting discussion of this in the new book From Heaven He Came and Sought Her.

01:06:17

Well, I just started reading that, I'm enjoying it so far. Yeah, if you look up 1 Timothy 4 .10, you will find some discussion of that.

01:06:25

I was a little surprised because a number of different people commented on it, but the one longest comment or discussion of it,

01:06:40

I believe, was from a Southern Seminary professor, and I wouldn't necessarily agree with where he went, as you'll be able to see if you look at my comments.

01:06:53

Do you have The Potter's Freedom? Not yet, actually. I've read a couple of your books. My sister's actually reading that one.

01:06:59

I've been hoping to get to it. Okay, if you have the second edition, the quotations in there, my bookshelf isn't...

01:07:07

that isn't the same bookshelf, is it? That's a different bookshelf. The bookshelf that's supposed to be right here isn't in here yet that has all my books on it, so I can't grab my books right now to give you the page numbers and read the citations and do stuff like that.

01:07:21

I apologize for that. But basically, it focuses upon what malice means, and even if you take it in and don't look at it in the way that a fellow from England by the name of Sweet, S -W -E -T -E, argued from the papyri, even if you don't take it from that perspective, when it says,

01:07:46

Soter Ponton Anthropon, what does that mean? There are people who are trying to say, well, that means he's the potential savior of all men.

01:07:57

Well, what does that mean? Where do you get the idea of potentiality in the term

01:08:05

Soter? I would say that even if you take malice in the way that some of these individuals insist that we take it as meaning simply especially, that it would be understood in the very same way as saying that Jesus Christ is

01:08:19

Lord of all. He's the only Lord that truly exists, but obviously the lordship that he has in regards to those who are in hell is different than the lordship he has in regards to those who are his own and who find him to be the one who has redeemed them.

01:08:38

So we could go that direction, but I think there's other things that need to be brought up in regards to that, which is why, even though I mentioned it very briefly on the program, it's sort of the same situation we're in here.

01:08:50

I've got 60 seconds or something like that is really not the best way to do this. I'm trying to remember.

01:08:57

I think, and we've never really gone back and thoroughly indexed them, but my recollection is we have done a program or at least done a program on the dividing line where we went through most of these texts, and I think

01:09:15

I probably read those quotes at that particular point in time. So I don't know if doing a search on our website for that would pull up some dividing lines where we had more time to deal with it or not.

01:09:30

Yeah, I did poke around a little bit before I called in on an article. I think I found maybe a couple things you were referring to, but I definitely wanted to get—I think there were things written by other people, so I wanted to get a little bit of a take on your take on it, but that is helpful.

01:09:43

Well, check with your sister to see if that's the second edition of the Potter's Freedom, because if it is, then you'll have the material there anyways.

01:09:51

Sure. One other thing. It's just a little more broad, so you can do with it what you will. Real quick. Yeah, sure.

01:09:56

I haven't listened to the other part of the debate. I am myself—well, the other debate as a whole on continuationism versus—I am myself more of a continuationist.

01:10:07

I'm just wondering, have you—is there any resources on your website by any chance where you have covered, in particular perhaps like 1

01:10:15

Corinthians 12 -14 that I could look at? No, it's not really a subject that I generally deal with.

01:10:23

I think they asked me to do it simply because they knew of my friendship with Michael and knew it would be a good discussion.

01:10:29

That's not what the debate was about. The debate was about divine healers in the Church. Obviously the concept of continuationism, cessationism is relevant to that, and I did address my understanding of tongues and gifts back in October on the dividing line and did address at least what

01:10:49

I think is the key issue in 1 Corinthians 14, and that is the purpose of tongues. Okay, well, thank you.

01:10:55

By the way, I'm friends with Justin Esposito, if you remember him. Oh, okay. Yeah, just thought

01:11:01

I'd mention that. Thanks for talking to me. Thanks, Eric. Okay, thanks for your call. Bye -bye. All right, that does it for the program today.

01:11:09

Sorry, Arlen, a little late on getting in there, but we had lots of callers, and I appreciate that, and we got through them as quickly as we possibly could.

01:11:18

I had William Lane Craig and Paul Helm queued up too and never even got close to it.

01:11:24

So still lots to do. We will get to them eventually. We truly will. So thanks for listening. We'll see you again next week here on the