March 11, 2019 Show with Ryan Denton & Scott Smith on “A Certain Sound: A Primer On Open Air Preaching”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

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To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and those listening Internationally over the internet at iron sharpens iron radio

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Dot -com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this 11th day of March 2019 and I am delighted to have two first -time guests on iron sharpens iron radio today

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We have Ryan Denton and Scott Smith and They're going to be discussing something that I think is a very important topic a topic

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That I have addressed in part in the past I have addressed it by interviewing people involved in open -air preaching and Unless I'm suffering from a bad memory.

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I don't think though However that I've ever done a full two -hour program specifically on the topic of on -air preaching

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For the full length of the program and that's what we're doing today We're going to be discussing a book written by Ryan Denton and Scott Smith published by Reformation Heritage Books titled a certain sound a primer on open -air preaching and Our guests include as I mentioned just before Ryan Denton who was a pastor on the

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Navajo reservation before starting Christ in the wilderness ministries which he has directed since 2016 and Scott Smith who ran a classical

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Christian school for 17 years in Orlando, Florida before going into open -air preaching ministry full -time and It's my honor and privilege to welcome for the very first time ever to iron tripens on radio

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Ryan Denton and Scott Smith It's great to have you on first of all since you guys are both first -time

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Listen the first -time guests I should say I want you to give your

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Summary of your salvation testimonies what kind of religious background you were raised in if any and what

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Providential circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up in your lives To draw you to himself and save you and we'll have you do that in a moment

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But I want Ryan for you to make sure our listeners know what Christ in the wilderness

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Minute or Christ in the wild. I'm sorry Christ in the wild ministries is So, yeah, so I started it as you said in 2016 and our primary focus is to bring the gospel of Jesus Christ outside of the church and we do that in several locations that can include

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Jails and homeless shelters, but primarily it is through open -air preaching college campuses sporting events

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Really just wherever there are masses. We try to bring the gospel out and and and Preaching we also try to equip local churches other other

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Open -air ministers in in just open -air preaching and so there's a lot of there's a lot of interest being

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Raised up in open -air preaching these days, I think and so what of one of the our roles

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You know to the extent that we can do that one of our roles in our ministry is to come alongside and and help churches and also just just men to Further engage the lost through open -air preaching and so we're based out of El Paso, Texas We do we try to do quite a bit in the southwest and in the

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West, but but we do Also go around the world at times Okay, now if you could

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Ryan give us a summary of your salvation testimony starting with what kind of Religious atmosphere if any you were raised in Yeah, so I'm 33 now and I would say when

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I was 22 and I was brought up in a household that you know, we went to church on Sundays, but Every every now and then but you you wouldn't really see much of the

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Bible as far as just just as a regular principle of life and and so It was in a rather conservative area.

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So there's a lot of nominal Christianity going on Whenever I left high school I had no interest in the faith whatsoever and and really throughout high school had no interest in the faith and so really kind of just turned into one of the your usual, you know party animals and rebels and Everything else under the under the

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Sun until I was 22 and then I always look back on it and you know, you can

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I always Attributed especially to God's sovereignty. I mean if there's any question at all,

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I think For me, it's always just being able to look back on my life and see God's sovereignty because what he did is

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So I had friends who had died, you know go growing up and in high school things like that I always had friends that died but but there was a particular case

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When one of my friends died and he was not even he wasn't a close friend He was more like an acquaintance, but for some reason

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I mean when he died the Lord just just used it in a mighty way to actually just spark this this fear of Mortality but more than anything else the judgment to come really in in I mean,

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I never had a problem knowing that God existed you know, I knew I always knew he did and I'm just like everyone else, but That was never the issue

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It's just a matter of seeing God as something to desire and and whenever whenever my friend died

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I he the Lord gave me a hunger for the word that that was really the only place I knew where to go

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So I started reading the Bible and and by God's grace a few months later.

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I was I was on my face regularly seeking the Lord and praying and Really just just came to know the

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Lord Through that experience and through other things too, but but to summarize that that's really what happened and then from there, you know, it's just a matter of Running the race and so for the last 10 years by God's grace.

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That's that's what I'm trying to do Wow The similarity between your testimony and mine is remarkable

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I was Growing up as a kid in a Roman Catholic home. I Never doubted the existence of Jesus Christ.

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I never doubted that he was good. I never doubted that he was God but I was Obviously an unregenerate young man.

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It became more obvious when I became a teenager and was living a very rebellious life and I was starting to think more seriously about my own mortality because of the fact that Most young people really think they're gonna live forever.

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They just think they don't even have it in their mind they can't even conceive not only dying but being a middle -aged person with spouse and children and all those other things and And I was beginning to notice the fact and think more dear deeply about my mortality when

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I had heard about friends and acquaintances just like you had experienced who had died and typically in tragic accidents and And always involving drugs or alcohol and So it's it's pretty remarkable now you

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Also, obviously had a calling upon your life placed there by God To become a pastor and not only a pastor but a pastor on a

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Navajo reservation now tell us about that Right, so that was and I praise

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God for the experiences of being a pastor I've really been able to appreciate the work of pastoral ministry and and really the church and That came about I grew up in New Mexico Always had a burden for New Mexico And I you know,

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I actually grew up on the other side of New Mexico from where the Navajo reservation is So didn't really have a lot of experience there

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I did go to school in Albuquerque so was familiar a little bit with with the Navajo culture But really the the thing that attracted me to that area was all of the evangelism

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That was that was needed over there and still is but the the role of That church is as far as what that church really needed at the time

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It seemed like was just just just a lot of evangelism And so I was very naive on the one hand because I went in Assuming that if you wanted to preach you have to be a pastor

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And so I think that was kind of where certainly certainly mistaken understanding of You know different offices in the church, but that was that was my idea

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So that so in other words, I was looking for a place to preach. I was attracted to all of the evangelism in that area

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I had a burden for New Mexico. We my wife and I went over there and Fell in love with the people there and we still we still love the people over there dearly

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They're they're great support to us We were there for about two years and along the way

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I started kind of realizing that my heart and the burden that I have is really not necessarily for Pastoral ministry per se but but to to preach the gospel

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I mean, I was I was doing more ministry outside of the church than I was inside the church just just because of a naive understanding of what the role of a pastor is and And so as I was pastoring

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I started meeting other pastors and talking to other pastors and realized, you know these These men have been really called to be pastors and and we have different burdens and and I started seeing that and so try to be transparent with the church and and they were very gracious and Understood because they had seen me doing a lot of ministry in the jails and in the prisons and in the open air and things

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Like that they totally understood and they actually supported us and sent us out to be or sent me out to be an open -air preacher

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Or to have a I guess more of an evangelistic ministry In El Paso, Texas where we are now, so that's that's again in a nutshell kind of how that came about Well, I hope

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I remember to repeat this information later But anybody who wants to learn more about Christ in the wild ministries go to Christ in the wild calm very easy to remember

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Christ in the wild calm and I intend to repeat that throughout the program, but my my brain is

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Dissolving in my skull as I get older and I sometimes don't remember to do these And now

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Scott Smith if you could give us a summary of your own salvation testimony

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What kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in if any and what kind of providential Circumstances were raised up in your life by our

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Sovereign Lord to draw you to himself and save you Sure, that'd be my pleasure.

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So I was raised Roman Catholic and an anonymous Roman Catholic family and had absolutely no interest in anything that had to do with religion thought was all baloney and Really just living, you know a life of open rebellion against God You know when you live a life of rebellion against God if God is calling you we often have to use some very trying circumstances to awaken you and he decided to do that with me and So I I was probably at the point where I was either gonna kill somebody else or kill myself

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I mean it was about that extreme and And and what happened was I decided to leave the continental

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US and take a trip Down into Australia and across Asia I called it

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I was thinking of it as an Asian truth Tour I was gonna spend about two years just kind of making my way and the first place

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I decided to stop was Honolulu, Hawaii and So I got to Honolulu and right before I left a friend of mine who was going to be an

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Episcopal priest Who actually is not converted himself, but but he gave me a

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Bible and he said, you know I can see your life is a pickle here. And what I give you this Bible. Maybe this is good

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Oh, yeah, right. So I stuck it in my bag, but I didn't really give any thought and so I got to Honolulu And the very first day

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I was there. I had no money. I didn't have the fare to get to Australia I was basically just enough to get to Honolulu So I'm walking down the street 6 in the morning and a car pulls over The guy rolls his window down and he says to me.

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Hey, do you need a ride? And I said, well, I'm I mean I'm not hitchhiking. I'm just what about it? Where you going? He said well,

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I'm going to downtown Honolulu. So when you're okay, I'll take a ride down there That's where I'm going. I was moving, you know, it's part of the bus station

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So I got in his car and the guy immediately said to me Lord Jesus Christ told me to stop and pick you up that God is calling to you to turn from your sins

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He can deliver you from your sins. He can set you free. And I said buddy pull the car over and he said I'm serious

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I will knock your teeth out and I will break your face across the front of your car I started swearing at him.

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I made him pull over. I jumped out of his car and I thought to myself What kind of idiots do they have over here in Honolulu?

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So I walk about another 200 yards to the place where the bus stop was for me to pick up this bus to get to downtown

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Honolulu I Sat on the bus stop. It's about 6 in the morning and Another person did the exact same thing to me

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They walked up Said the Lord told me to come down here this morning to tell you that Jesus is calling to you to turn from your sins

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He can free you. He can save your soul. He can give you a reason to live And at this point I was spooked.

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I mean the anger had gone. I was like what is going on over here? So I said well, whatever dude so I kind of blew him off and the bus pulls up and I climb on the bus and a lady hands me a gospel track as I'm Moving toward the seats of the bus.

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And so for the first time in my life, I actually read a gospel track and I haven't been raised from a

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Catholic. I didn't have any idea about the blood being shed for me I didn't have any idea about Jesus Christ earning my righteousness I didn't really understand that he was calling the sinners to come to him.

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And so in my cocky sort of Arrogant way I sat on the bus. I read the track and I said, okay

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God I said if you are really calling to me if this is real Then I need you to show me

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I need a sign and here's the sign I want you to give me I want you to give me the first job.

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I apply for that was my arrogant prayer Well didn't think another thing of it

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Bust out of downtown Honolulu cut off the bus bought a newspaper And I noticed that they were looking for a painter at a school called the

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Kamehameha private school I didn't know at the time that the Kamehameha private school was the world's largest

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Private school and it had been endowed by Queen Kamehameha what she sold Waikiki Beach to the developers for multiple millions of dollars

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And so she didn't doubt a school Wow, and so I didn't know any of that I just saw they needed a painter and I figured

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I'd beef up my resume and buy a little bit if I had to and Just get a painting job and that would give me enough money to you know, get to get to Australia and start my

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Asian truth tour so I went down there applied for the job padded the resume a little bit

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I he lied and Didn't get the job right away and I kept calling him a call in the morning.

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I call him at night I'm like, hey, I'm the guy that applied to any job already and and the fellow that was in charge of hiring said look if we

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Call you and finally, I just figured I'd worn him down. So so you're the guy you're the guy that lied on his

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Application you are the guy that did that Painter I mean,

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I understood how to paint a house caught the ladder But I was not like a journeyman painter with a lot of skill I was a guy that could get a job done and you know work hard if I had to So I just figured like everything else could fix about the feet of my pants if I got hired anyway

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He he finally says, all right. Tell you what just just commit tomorrow. We'll start so I get there

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This is like Friday morning. So I applied for the job on a Monday morning on Friday morning He said come on in so I come in and I noticed as I'm filling out the paperwork for the job that everybody's looking at me like I'm from like another planet and I was really kind of weird

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It was just so noticeable if people come out of the rooms looking at me and people could you know So finally after fill up the paperwork and I get with my painting crew

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This fellow named Bambino who was kind of the journeyman on the painting crew. He pulled me off to the side and he said

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He said I got I gotta ask you since who do you know on the board of this school? That pulled strings for you to get this job and I said,

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I don't know anybody I'm from Boston. I've only been here four days. What do you mean? I said, I just applied and you know, he said no no, no, no, no, he said he said tell me the truth

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Who pulled the strings to get you this job and I said listen, I know what pulled the strings,

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I don't know anybody And he said to me That's a miracle

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And I said, what's so miraculous about that? And he said you're the first non -hawaiian to be hired here in 88 years

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He said this is a school that Queen Timaeus specifically said if you were You had to be

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Hawaiian to work here and you had to be Hawaiian to go here Wow And I understood why everybody was looking at me.

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I was the only white face at the whole campus And so when he said it's a miracle,

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I remembered that cocky prayer on the bus When I had said God had to show me

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And when I get home that night, I fell on my face I cried out to the Lord to forgive me and I said

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I will serve you every day of my life If you can save my soul and get me out of this mess, I've made of my life And so I have not been faithful to him, but he has been faithful to me

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And it wasn't just in the next day that Saturday I've been converted literally about four hours

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I took a walk and as I was walking through a park Out of nowhere. I see a man standing on a park bench

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Preaching and I looked at that man He looked at me and I said to myself that is what

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I'm gonna do It was like I immediately knew there was not anything more important than me Taking a stand for Christ after what

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God had done for me Wow So that was the first miraculous thing that God did but when I So I canceled the

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Asian truth tour started memorizing hundreds and hundreds of scriptures came back to Boston witness to my

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Catholic family thought it, you know completely lost my mind and You know realized the world was sort of showing me

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Scott You need to get your feet on the ground get a regular job get get get, you know, get a life of normalcy.

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So That life of normalcy led to eventually over many years Tell you more of the trial later

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But ultimately God gave me the idea to start a classical Christian prep school in Florida After I got out of seminary and so he literally dropped the idea in my head and I started the classical school

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I had three campuses around Orlando and everything was going great. And then about ten years ago I felt strongly that it was time now to go into full -time campus preaching

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And so that's basically what I made the change was in May of 2010

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Just out of curiosity was Central Baptist Church of Honolulu at all involved in your conversion or your early days as a

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Christian No, well, I went to an Assemblies of God Church I think you know I was so out of control even after Christian when

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I see out of control meaning I I was very self -centered and I you know Really didn't ever let anybody tell me anything

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So I kind of marched into an Assemblies of God Church and sort of fitted pretty good there right away and got baptized

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But I was only there for three months and then I went back to Boston. The only reason I ask is that providentially very recently a listener

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Mike Emailed me asking for a church recommendation in Honolulu because he was visiting his son there and I told him about Central Baptist Church in Honolulu, which is a

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Reformed Baptist Church Pastor Pastor Chapman is there and he wrote back and said he really loved it

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So I was just curious Well, yeah, no, I went into something

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God Church and I immediately told the pastor I you know, and he wanted me to speak in tongues, which I never did But he he

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I told him immediately I wanted to be a pastor because that's all I understood at the time was I guess that's what you do is you become a pastor and and But in God's Providence, I became a businessman and I basically

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Before I ran that school I basically was involved in buying a total of real estate and made a lot of money and then the

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Lord Providentially took me to the mat and took it all away Which was very important Sanctification that he had to do in my life and it's out of that Misery and difficulty that he brought me to seminary and then after seminary right away gave me the idea to start a

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Christian school so There was a lot of preparation for me It felt like Ryan was moved into frontline ministry pretty quickly for me

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It was about a 30 year lead -up because God had to do so many deep things Sanctification wise in my life

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That I was just so ill -prepared to you know be any kind of real good witness for Christ But um, but I never forgot the desire

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I had to make exalting him my primary mission Well, I'm gonna give our listeners our email address.

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It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris ar n z e n gmail .com

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Please give us your first name at least Your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter

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That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Well, we are going to be going into our theme momentarily the specific theme on open -air preaching and even more specifically the book that was written by our guests today

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Ryan Denton and Scott Smith a Certain sound a primer on open -air preaching.

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I love that title a certain sound and This is a publication of Reformation Heritage books and their website is heritage books org

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Heritage books org for more details on that And just by the just so I can let you know right away

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You could also order that book through one of our sponsors Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CV bbs .com

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that's CV for Cumberland Valley BBS Which stands for Bible Book Service dot -com

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CV bbs .com Please tell them at CV bbs that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen and Iron Triffin's iron radio when placing the order we're gonna go to a station break in a second our first station break but before we go to the break,

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I just want to whet your appetite by reading a couple of the or a few of the Commendations that have been written about this book

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First of all, Rob Ventura who has been a guest in Iron Triffin's iron radio several times pastor at Grace Community Baptist Church in North Providence, Rhode Island and co -author of a portrait of Paul and spiritual warfare

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Rob Ventura said about this book a certain sound by Ryan Denton and Scott Smith is a welcome

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Contribution to the contemporary discussion on open -air preaching from a perspective deeply grounded in the

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Christian tradition and reformed and Puritan Theology Denton and Smith defend the ministry of street preaching in a firm but moderate tone everyone who practices open -air preaching or who is interested in its biblical basis must read this book and Actually, I think

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I just read Sam Waldron's That was Sam Waldron's commendation That was

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Sam Waldron, Sam Waldron is academic dean and professor of systematic theology at Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary and a pastor of Grace Reformed Baptist Church in Owensboro, Kentucky And I've had

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Sam on the program a number of times as well And I think this is a good reminder to get him back and Rob Ventura.

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Also, here's Rob Ventura's Commendation a certain sound is a well -written carefully crafted scripturally saturated book

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That was a joy to read as one who has had as one who has many years

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Experienced with open -air preaching. I thank God for this stirring call to the church to fulfill one of her main duties

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Namely preaching Jesus to every creature read this book master it and with the help of the

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Holy Spirit Let the certain sound of the glorious gospel of Christ be heard outdoors once again and finally

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Al Baker who has all I've also had on this program but not in quite a while another reminder to get Al back on Al Baker evangelist with Presbyterian evangelistic fellowship an author of evangelistic preaching in the 21st century

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Al says without question there is a resurgence of open -air preaching in the United States I for one welcome it, but I know many others in the

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Reformed and evangelical church world are highly skeptical. I Too have observed many who have given open -air preaching a bad name and brought disrepute on the practice for this reason

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I have for some time wished someone would write a write an apologetic book for open -air preaching and I believe we now have such an important book in a certain sound a

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Primer on open -air preaching the authors are seasoned open -air preachers with whom I have preached several times in the streets of America They are passionate

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Reformed and Christ centered in their preaching I urge pastors evangelists and laypeople to read this book and hopefully

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God will use it to lend credibility To the practice and to inspire churches everywhere to get behind open -air preaching once again, that was

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Al Baker well, those are quite powerful endorsements for this book and I hope that you begin to call family friends and loved ones and have them tune in to the program and It seems that I have been told that the iron sharpens iron website is having a bit of difficulty today

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I don't know why this is news to me for the first time But you could tell your family friends and loved ones to listen at first love radio org

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They can hear it live streaming there as well First love radio org and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question

27:34

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com as always give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

27:45

USA and Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter

27:51

Don't go away. God willing. It will be right back after these messages Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad assistant professor of systematic theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas, I Accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in The churches of our

28:17

Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths

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Indeed future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people

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If you want to learn more about our program visit us online at IRBS seminary org

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That's the private story Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad assistant professor of systematic theology at IRB s theological seminary in Mansfield, Texas, I Accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in The churches of our

31:34

Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths

31:54

Indeed future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people

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If you want to learn more about our program visit us online at IRB s seminary org

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PTL Bible rebinding calm My name is

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Steve Lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier ministries

33:52

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the master's seminary in Los Angeles I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students

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Andy Woodard serves as the pastor It's called New Covenant Church, NYC They are a reformed

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Baptist Church that meets in Midtown Manhattan. You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc

34:18

.nyc They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching in New York City I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

34:42

.nyc Have a great day Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen If you just tuned us in our guests today our two guests today are

34:51

Ryan Denton and Scott Smith They are co -authors of the book that we are addressing today on open -air preaching the book is titled a certain sound a primer on open -air preaching if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is

35:08

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chrisarnzen gmail .com

35:13

and please as always give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

35:19

USA Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter well,

35:26

I think Our listeners might Who are unfamiliar with exactly?

35:34

What open -air preaching is I mean the the name the title is somewhat self -explanatory but there are as you both know a wide spectrum of People who do this and as even some of your

35:52

Your accolades that you received from people who love your book One of the reasons they are happy you wrote the book is that there there are many who give this a bad name there are many who

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Practice this and appear to look Nothing more than like nothing more than lunatics

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And of course, we know that those who preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ who are accurately

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Proclaiming his word and so on even to the even they to the unsaved are very often appearing to be nothing more than lunatics, but there are others that would truly deserve a a

36:39

A Description like that, but tell us about in summary, what is open -air preaching as far as a biblical biblically accurate and appropriate form of this and Why you two felt a need to write this book?

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In fact, I may be Not membering remembering correctly, but I know that Tony Miano wrote a book about his experiences

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As an open -air preacher, but that was more involving the actual experiences of Those he had met in public and those that he led to Christ and some of their background stories

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But as far as a primer on open -air preaching, is this the first one? I am not familiar with any others right now

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Yes, I think that's part of the reason for writing the book is is that there's really no literature out there

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For open -air preaching and I think you know for anybody who who is first filling the call Scott mentioned his call to open -air preach

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I think it really is a calling. I think I think certain men are just gripped by Open -air preaching whether they see it live or whether they see it maybe on a video

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But there's something that the Lord really does as far as just stirring men to go forth and to do it

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And I know my experience and Scott can speak to his own but but I know for a fact I I was searching desperately for for any kind of information out there on open -air preaching and Unfortunately, you know,

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I think I think Scott and I would both say, you know a great a great place for that Ideally would be the local church but there's the difficulty

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I think the complication that might arise is the fact that a lot of Local churches are just not

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The They haven't really come across it So they don't really know what to what to do as far as somebody coming to them and saying hey

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I feel like the Lord's calling me to open -air preach Aside from the fact because this happened to me, you know aside from the fact of maybe a and they're not all this way

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Of course But a lot of pastors and ministers in general think well open -air preaching is just for the crazy guys and you don't want to do

38:45

That if I think I think just the fact that there's a dearth of information out there

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That's quality. You know, that's theologically based. I I I know and Scott felt the same way there needed to be something done about that and That's that's one of the primary reasons why we wrote that and Scott if you could give us

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Scott a Definition of what biblical open -air preaching or at least biblically faithful open -air preaching is

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Well You know if you're not exalting Christ enough, you're not working from a scripture then you're not doing open -air preaching the

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Way, I think it ought to be done. So that's my first two preconceptions is a You have a text that you're preaching from and be you're heading toward Christ Doesn't matter where you're in the

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Bible But if you know what you're doing, you're gonna get to Christ and you're gonna make much of him That's the goal but but getting to Christ also involves laying the foundation of broken law

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In other words, these are people who need a Savior, but they don't just need somebody recommends of good ideas We'll give them some good advice

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They need a Savior from the power of sin and from the guilt of sin So you've got to accurately explain the problem

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And if you don't actually explain the problem But if you don't use the law to bring the knowledge of sin and of course the Holy Spirit ultimately have to do the real work here, of course, but but the instrumentality would be to open up the law of God and Then once it's clear that a person has an understanding of what their problem is

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Then of course we have a great Savior and we love to make much of him and to show how he and he alone saves men from their sins without God negotiating any of the

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Perfection of his own justice. So to me opener preaching is using the Bible laying the foundation of broken law pointing to the great

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Savior Jesus Christ on the basis of what he did in his sinless life and what he did in the Substitutory bloodshedding for his people and that's why that title a certain sound meant a lot to me and a metal

40:41

That's right. We didn't want it to be unmistakable or rather Mistakable as if somehow

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Armenian preaching is the same as reform preaching or or the Pelagian preaching the same as reform preaching

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It's not and and we're not trying to manipulate people We trust completely in God bringing his elect to faith

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And so we don't see any reason to kowtow or mince words, but by the same token, we could be very

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Ministerial very gracious and kind in our invitation to you know, call on the name of the Lord So that probably is more than what you were bargaining for, but that's how

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I look at it. No, that's That's exactly what I was looking for. And well, let's go through some very important Basically things that we need to touch on to give a

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More comprehensive understanding of open -air preaching and how it should be biblically and appropriately Conducted for our listeners, can you give us both some of a history of open -air preaching the

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Figure that immediately comes to mind or should I say the two that immediately comes to mind or come to mind?

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in the Bible, we have John the Baptist obviously and in much more recent history, although Not that recent we have

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George Whitfield, but if you could give us a history of open -air preaching Yeah, I think it's all the way back to Noah, you know,

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Noah was a preacher of righteousness You have Jonah, of course most the prophets not all the prophets

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They're they're open -air preachers even Moses Moses did a lot. I guess you could say Moses did all of his addresses in the open air

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Solomon David Ezra, of course, they were preaching in the open air And to me

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I think that's that's what open -air preaching is it really is just going like Scott saying going to the masses with the gospel and in and Lifting our voices about it.

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And so I think That's why there's not, you know, look in the New Testament to like you mentioned John the Baptist But even you know a lot of times people think well, yes, you know the

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Old Testament I understand because they didn't have buildings But even when they when you get into the old into the

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New Testament you have synagogues and yet Where do you find Jesus doing most of his preaching?

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It's it's still it's on the side of a boat It's in the mountains. It's in the field. It's in these towns

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Same thing when you go into the book of Acts and then I think for me that my favorite part about open -air preaching

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I guess the history of open -air preaching is even the early church, you know When we were writing this book and trying to dig through and trying to find

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I guess examples in the early church There were plenty of examples as far as just open -air preachers

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Irenaeus was an open -air preacher And then you have you have especially a lot of guys in the

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Middle Ages Strangely enough st. Francis of Assisi was an open -air preacher But but I think the neatest thing about open -air preaching is that it was to me

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It's it's the it's the launching pad of the Reformation because these they were not allowed to preach of course in the in these what you

43:48

They were called church settings So the only way that you could preach the gospel was to go out in and preach it there

43:54

And so even with John Wycliffe and then the Lawlers and guys like that. I'm John Knox John Huss was an open -air preacher and So so even the

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Puritans I read into something yesterday Whitfield mentioned something about the Puritans having to go to the highways and the hedges and preach the gospel there

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But I mean is that I think the beauty of open -air preaching is that if you're looking for a historical basis both biblically and and Extra biblical resource.

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They're out there. It's just a matter of Being able to see why it is that God is using that and it's the same thing today

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Cordelia's Van Til He's probably the most surprising figure to me, but you know, there's a Westminster professor

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I mean, he's out there in New York City preaching on a regular basis. So it's out there It's just a matter of looking into it and finding it and that's part of what the book uncovers

44:47

Yeah, that's a great sketch there Ryan and you know, just as we had to decline starting really with in my view

44:55

Wesley in Understanding the sovereignty of God in this process and I know

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God used Leslie But but not understanding the sovereignty of God in this process. I think there was a lot of manipulation so when you eventually get up to the point of let's say

45:07

Billy Graham with the altar calls and the Decisional regeneration all of this stuff. I felt like nothing short of both sort of like a paradigm shift or or just a complete overthrowing of the old way of doing stuff and just again getting out in the public with an open

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Bible taking a stand for Christ But who orders the wants to criticize you come up and answer their objections their comments their smart remarks and get it right back out of the open like he used to be when men who believed in Jesus Christ were fearless and Yeah, you're gonna get some turbulence

45:37

But whatever happened to church militant I mean we get guys to push papers around in their in their offices and I'm not opposed to preparing a message

45:44

But I'm opposed to push papers around and not being on the front lines That's what I felt like we reformed guys in particular needed to step it up Take a stand for Christ and then sort of let the chips fly where they may and we had so much historical

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Proof that men have done this in the past that the only thing holding us back really was our own unbelief and our own carnal fear

46:06

Those are two things that have to be mortified well, let's move on to another important aspect of this because as I already mentioned there are heretics and lunatics doing this and of course

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And of course it's it's interesting that somebody would use that as a Reason to not be involved in open -air preaching because there are lunatics and heretics in probably most of the pulpits in the world

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So So, I mean if we view The the truly regenerate church as being a minority in the world

46:44

You would have to come to the conclusion that that would be the case But but why on earth?

46:52

It's mind -boggling to me. But why on earth are there? Theologically sound men

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Those that have an excellent reputation for handling the Word of God appropriately rightly dividing the

47:07

Word of Truth Faithful shepherds in nearly every aspect you can imagine and yet there are some even under those

47:15

Categories who are opposed to open -air preaching. Why would that be? You want to give your feedback first line?

47:23

Yeah, that's well, that's that's I think the age -old question if I I mean

47:29

I don't know if there's the specific answer. I think Scott hit on two of them and I also

47:34

I would say just come in from a perspective of pastoral ministry you know, it's true like in Ephesians 4 that Jesus Christ gives gifts to people and and I think when you're looking at a

47:49

Let's say the the gifting or the calling of a pastoral role It is different than what you have with an evangelist

47:56

And I think I think both are burdened about something and to an extent if they're both burdened about the church

48:03

But but I think a pastor Generally is is very burdened and it's a good thing, you know

48:10

It's very burdened about the local church the flock in feeding the flock and shepherding the flock.

48:16

So he has his eyes But primarily on the flock and I think when it comes to the evangelist the burden is really going out with the gospel

48:24

The problem I think is a lack of fusion between the two I think that I think the two should be fused in other words

48:30

I think you know when we go out and we preach in the open air There's a lot of pastoral situations that take place on a regular basis.

48:38

Just people coming up with different questions questions out of out of the blue questions about suicide questions about whether or not you're saying questions about what a

48:46

Christian is and so These are these are very pastoral situations On the other hand

48:53

I think to the extent that that a pastor even though he's burdened about the flock

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To the extent that he's able to go out in and not necessarily preach in the open air

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But do evangelistic preaching to the lost primarily engaged with the lost to an extent

49:09

I think I think what it does is I think it provides a more a more rounded perspective of Really just ministry in general and so I think there is that lack of Just that lack of perspective as far as most most pastors are

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Engaged with local church stuff only and again, that's a good thing But there should also be the going out with the gospel just the same thing

49:40

You know it's open air preachers if we were just concerned or engaged with just preaching preaching preaching Not having any concern with with the people that we encounter or engage.

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I think there would be a deficit there also So that's I guess that's that's what I would say. It's hard to come up with a clear -cut answer

49:56

But I think that's part of the reason You know I take a bigger a little bit bigger perspective at times on this and here's what

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I mean God is controlling history, and I think God has allowed the muscular militants manly

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Aspect of Christianity to sort of have a dip kind of a low dip right now But I think it's it's going to be on the uprise again

50:19

I think the men that are going to become ministers in the next 20 30 years gonna have to be just much more Thick -skinned men now when you when you say that just to make it clear to our listeners because obviously you and I believe in the sovereignty of God over all things and even something that is very tragic and Horrible that happens in the church is not beyond the control of God, but when you say that that God in his sovereignty perhaps has even ordained this dip in the

50:55

Masculine approach to evangelism and Christianity you're not saying that he God is pleased with this

51:01

You're just saying that it's a horrible thing. I'd say regrettable thing. It's a tragic thing, but God is in control nonetheless

51:09

Yeah, that's definitely in control and and I mean for whatever reason it just has not been the culture of the church to march men onto the front lines and Expect to get resistance unless you're a missionary in a

51:25

Muslim country or something So it seems like the culture of the church has gone toward. Hey, let's get along with our rock above Let's you know kind of find the synthesis between kind of Americanism and Christianity So, you know, we've been accepted we haven't been persecuted

51:38

So now when a guy steps up and invites persecution for the gospel a lot of the culture of the churches

51:43

Wow, this is totally wrong now admittedly, some guys are

51:49

Pelagian and some guys are mean and some guys are ignorant and There's no way to stop those guys

51:55

But the antidote if there is an antidote is when Ryan and I get out that we try to show that we're concerned about We're willing to educate them

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We're willing to answer their questions and the people who the auditors the people listen to you when you're on a campus Let's say they know the difference between a guy that just wants to yell at him

52:11

And a guy who genuinely has a message and genuinely cares about his audience will must be reasonable not Authoritative we still preach with authority, but but we're willing to be very reasonable with the auditors

52:21

Understanding that they may have a very negative view of open -air preaching, especially on college campuses. So And that sadly that spilled over to the church so that a lot of ministers

52:33

When they think about open -air preaching they probably think of either a the bad Examples or they may think be you know, that was for an earlier time

52:41

Like I remember one time contacting the chaplain up at Harvard The RUF guy and I told him

52:47

I was gonna be up at Harvard preaching and wanted to see if he wanted to come out Or pass out tracks or just let me meet him and he basically said no

52:52

I don't want to meet you the Harvard community is not interested in open -air preaching Well, this is a guy with an evangelical

52:58

MDIV I won't say from where but but you know a guy that I think was legitimately born again

53:03

But it's just so foreign now to the mindset of the ministers as they come out of seminary that anybody would ever get any

53:09

Resistance for the things that they do and it's it's really Candidly some of it's just flat -out unbelief

53:15

We get some resistance from guys that just don't believe that the Word of God will be effectual Though the

53:20

Bible says that it will be and so that's another big problem that I've faced is unbelief among ministers

53:28

Yeah, really the God's Word won't be effectual and he's the open -air and do you think that a part of that?

53:36

especially if you're talking about people who believe in the inerrancy of Scripture People who believe in the gospel those that are opposed to open -air preaching.

53:46

They are either consciously or unconsciously embarrassed By what the

53:53

Bible teaches and would rather have it confined within the four walls of a building

53:59

Where those that already believe it are going to be the majority gathered there.

54:05

Whereas when you're in the open air There's a very strong likelihood depending upon where you are

54:10

Preaching in the open air that the majority hearing the person preaching are going to be

54:16

People who are totally foreign to what? the Bible teaches they may even range from being indifferent to it to being openly and vehemently hostile to it and There are many people

54:32

Just like there are many individual Christians who attend worship services every

54:40

Sunday and perhaps Twice Sunday and perhaps even on Wednesday and maybe even more than that who

54:48

They're truly born again. They are studious and searching the unsearchable riches of Scripture and they are in many respects very

55:03

Wonderful pictures of what a Christian should be but That their major flaw in their life and it was it's a serious flaw is that they are they're embarrassed about being in the open air and Proclaiming these things in a way other than sitting down in a

55:22

Starbucks and very quietly Chatting about them in a cordial manner you know as opposed to a man thundering his voice and proclaiming very uncomfortable truths

55:37

To the populace listening. Do you think it's embarrassment? I Think that's part of it

55:44

And I you know to me it's multifaceted. I'm sure Ryan sees it, you know in some different ways as well

55:50

But you know, it's it is multifaceted. Some of it's an embarrassment Like I had a minister come up to me up in Portland, Maine last summer where I was preaching and we had a lot of People that were interested but he saw a few people kind of lifting their eyes like, you know

56:04

Something like this. So when he so after I was I'm preaching came over. He said to go this is not effective You're you're harming my efforts at a church here

56:10

You know, I'm an evangelical pastor and you know, this is really should take place in the church It's like, you know,

56:15

I gently at first at first gently tried to help him think through the scriptures a little more clearly But then I realized it was embarrassment for him and he didn't want to be associated with it

56:25

And so, you know, that is definitely part of it But part of it is fear Some men are just fearful men and they don't want to they've never learned how faithful Christ is when you're in the midst of Difficult circumstances the

56:37

Bible says he sets a table before you in the midst of your enemies But if you're never among the enemies, you never see God's table so the one thing a street preacher has is experience with God and Not just experience in the prayer closet but an experience of getting out in front of a crowd meeting

56:52

Christ in a way you don't need him in many settings and Seeing how faithful God is when you rely entirely upon him for the courage to open your mouth

56:59

Because I used to shake like a leaf in the wind But it's over time When God shows himself faithful and says son, calm down I got the whole thing under control and as you begin to see that that is really true and that God is in control of the crowd and you are

57:15

Immortal until he calls you home. It engenders a boldness and a and a comfortable restful assurance

57:21

You know that God is gonna seep it through and I think a lot of ministers don't have that and And I think that's another reason why they don't get out there because if a minister had seen that over a period of time

57:32

He would know that, you know, the only thing to fear is fear itself. It's not a real fear

57:39

But but here's where I come back to God's sovereignty The kind of preparation God put in Ryan's life the kind of preparation he put in in my life the kind of preparation it seems to me he's put in and the lives of at least 20 or 30 street preachers that I know that were formed is careful crafting and Part of that is putting you in situations where you have to rely on the

57:59

Lord And then he shows himself strong on your behalf and that's part of your preparation as an open -air preacher And so I wouldn't categorically criticize the ministers because I think a lot of these ministers have not been formed that way but You know,

58:12

I just don't think we can sum it up to one thing I think part of its embarrassment part of its God's Preparation for them in a different way part of it is just fear part of its unbelief

58:21

Part of it is a church culture that just is not at all interested in kind of rocking about Yeah, theology theology is a big reason also,

58:30

I think yeah In fact if we have to go to the theology part, which I'm actually was intending to go to but I sidetracked myself and everybody else

58:39

But we have to go to the theology Probably the most important aspect of the whole discussion when we return from the break and by the way,

58:46

I want to thank you I can't remember if it was Ryan or Scott, but thank you for providing Probably the only truthful statement that Franklin Delano Roosevelt ever uttered

58:56

There's nothing to fear but fear itself, but that's an exaggeration, of course, but But anyway,

59:03

I don't mean this statement. I mean my my comment about Franklin Roosevelt We're going to our midway break right now, it's a longer break than normal because grace life radio in Lake City, Florida They have to air their own public service announcements and their own commercials during this time during the broadcast

59:26

So we air our own commercials that are heard globally And so during this time this elongated break use this time wisely to write down the information provided by my advertisers because the more you

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Patronize my advertisers the more The more you the more you are going to likely lengthen the life of iron sharpens iron radio because we need

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The advertising dollars from our sponsors to exist so please patronize our advertisers as much as you can and write down the information that they provide so that you can more

01:00:05

Frequently and successfully do so also take this time to write down questions for Ryan Denton and Scott Smith on open -air preaching and our email address is

01:00:16

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence

01:00:23

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away

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Bringing new life to your home Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for my now seeking the approval of man or of God Or am

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That's CVBBS .com let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Welcome back.

01:11:13

This is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in our two guests today for the entire two hours are

01:11:20

We have Ryan Denton of Christ and the Wild Ministries and we also have

01:11:25

Scott Smith Who is co -author with Ryan of the new book a certain sound a primer on open -air preaching

01:11:33

In fact, the book is so new it is not quite available yet in print, but it's going to be available.

01:11:39

God willing Any day now, so we will keep you updated on that as well Before I return to our discussion with Ryan and Scott.

01:11:48

I just have a few announcements to make regarding Upcoming special events that we hope that you attend

01:11:55

First of all coming up right around the corner In fact, it's this Friday Friday and Saturday March 15th and the 16th.

01:12:04

The sanctification through suffering conference is being held in Freehold, New Jersey and Unlike the way

01:12:11

I just pronounced it. It's one word freehold, New Jersey freehold, New Jersey and the speakers include

01:12:16

Justin Peters Frank Mullis Joe Swozo and Colleen Sharp if you would like more details on attending sanctification through suffering conference go to striving for eternity org striving for eternity org

01:12:35

Then coming up and right in my backyard On May 28th through the 30th.

01:12:41

We have the banner of truths East Coast ministers conference Which I will be attending

01:12:46

God willing and hope that you attend with me Also, if you can get out there by train plane or automobile,

01:12:54

I attend this conference every year I have been every year since I moved to Pennsylvania Having lived in New York my entire life and I have been loving these conferences that the banner of truth orchestrates the theme this year

01:13:12

May 28th through the 30th is I believe in the Holy Spirit and the speakers include Jeff Kingswood Terry Johnson David Vaughn Stephen Nichols Who is the president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by the late

01:13:26

RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries? Michael Morales and Chad Vegas if you would like to attend the

01:13:32

East Coast ministers conference of the banner of truth on the theme I believe in the Holy Spirit go to banner of truth org banner of truth org click on events and then scroll down to East Coast ministers conference and by the way

01:13:45

There are other conferences that the banner of truth runs that they may have a conference closer to you

01:13:52

We have listeners all over the world and we know that we have many on the west coast of the United States we have many listeners in the

01:14:00

United Kingdom, so if you'd like to go to a An event that is in one of those areas rather than the

01:14:08

Pennsylvania conference. Well, then by all means click on that Link for more details, but if you're joining me

01:14:16

Click on the East Coast ministers conference to be held May 28th through the 30th in right here in,

01:14:22

Pennsylvania and I please ask of you to Make it a point to try to find out where I am.

01:14:30

So you could greet me and and find out more about The program and perhaps give me recommendations on guests and so on That's going to be held at the

01:14:39

Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania And then finally we have the foundations conference another conference

01:14:46

I love and I strongly urge you if you want to join me there on December 19th and 20th that you register immediately because the venue can only hold 200 people approximately and The speakers at this conference in New York City December 19th and the 20th are

01:15:04

Dr. Stephen J Lawson the Reverend Jeff Thomas Richard Caldwell jr.

01:15:10

Reverend Ormond Tomassian Andrew Quigley and Paul Washer has just been recently added to the roster

01:15:16

So if you'd like to attend go to the foundations conference calm the foundations conference calm

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Please let all of these ministries and organizations who are running these conferences know that you heard about these events from Chris Arns and an iron sharpens iron radio that goes a long way by Mentioning this program.

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We really want people to know if our if our program is being successfully used of God to promote the events of Faithful brothers and sisters in the body of Christ We want them to know that you heard about their events from Chris Arns and an iron sharpens iron radio

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That's Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line Now you could also send in your questions to our guests today

01:18:31

Ryan Denton and Scott Smith as we discuss open -air preaching the email address is

01:18:37

Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com and Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:18:47

USA I've been told by my webmaster by the way that the website for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has been restored it appears that we had

01:18:59

Too much traffic and it shut down I'm very technologically ignorant.

01:19:05

So whatever went on there because we had too much traffic too many listeners logging in It went down, but my my webmaster has informed me and reassured me that it is back up but We were going to go into the very important theme of the theology the appropriate theology for open -air preaching

01:19:25

I'm assuming Ryan and Scott that it would be the same theology. That would be from heard from the pulpit of a theologically sound church and from a private individual

01:19:38

Christian Sharing the gospel with somebody in a waiting room on a bus a plane train or automobile

01:19:45

Waiting room what -have -you The gospel is the gospel and true theology is the true theology, but tell us about this

01:19:54

This very important matter when it comes to open -air preaching Yes, theology

01:20:02

Matters in open -air preaching just as much as anywhere else. I think Scott mentioned this earlier as far as The history of the church, especially what you see today contemporary open -air preaching the the the

01:20:15

Pelagians the shock and awe guys the the I would I would argue that the guys who are doing a lot of the gimmicks and the gadgets whenever they go and preach that comes from Arminian theology and When you look at open -air preaching to me and this is what we argue in the book to me

01:20:34

Reformed theology is really the only theology That gives a basis for open -air preaching because we do believe in the sovereignty of God in salvation

01:20:44

We believe not only that God's Word is going to be effective But that that that God really is pleased whenever crisis is made much of in crisis glorified

01:20:53

And so that's our primary focus, you know, when we go out and open -air preach we want we want Christ to be glorified

01:21:00

And when it comes to the salvation of souls We know that it's through the gospel of Jesus Christ that God does that faith comes by hearing hearing by the word of Christ And so that is why as reformed open -air preachers.

01:21:12

We can just concentrate on the gospel. We can preach the gospel We don't have to we don't have to try to pander to man's emotions or man's will and I think

01:21:21

What what is going on in in the contemporary open -air preaching scene is?

01:21:26

Because of just the the domination of Arminian theology it has really infiltrated

01:21:33

Even open -air preaching and even I would argue even in the way that we as reformed believers do evangelism and so that's why

01:21:42

Scott did point out that you know A lot of the time a lot of the criticism about open -air preaching comes from the fact that people they are evaluating

01:21:51

Whether or not the open -air preaching is effective based on how human beings react to the gospel and if we go back to the

01:21:59

Bible we find out that lost people have never responded well to the proclamation of the gospel and And of course, it's going to be the same thing when you're open -air preaching

01:22:10

And so so I I mean, there's there's no doubt in my mind reformed theology is is is everything

01:22:18

It's more than essential when it comes to open -air preaching and Scott go ahead brother. I'm sure you have some the same sentiments

01:22:25

Well, I mean, yeah, right. It's a great job. Just kind of summarizing at the end of the day You know, if you don't believe in the sovereign you've got you are going to resort either to man -centered approaches

01:22:37

You know, you're going to try to make the man the center of the message Or you're gonna shilly -shally on the offense of the gospel that he is not able to in and of himself regenerate himself

01:22:48

He needs a savior. Not just by the way, you've introduced me to a new Slang term.

01:22:54

What does shilly -shally? Professors when

01:23:00

I was in seminary a guy named Steve Brown who was my preaching professor and so to shilly -shally is the kind of It's a it's a form of cowardice when you kind of slide out of a situation instead of stepping up and chasing the

01:23:13

This is the Steve Brown from reformed theological seminary with the yeah with the voice so deep makes me sound like a girl

01:23:22

Yeah, like Steve would say to me I have a face that was made for radio Yeah, but shilly -shallying is just you know, not stepping up and taking the heat of the confrontation, you know

01:23:35

Or compromise, you know, I would call it compromise, but it's a southern term, I guess And so, you know, if you don't believe that God is sovereign you're going to do either man -centered or you're gonna try to save yourself some of the

01:23:49

Confrontation that's going to come and and so why did I both just believe, you know, we're immortal to the

01:23:55

Lord calls us home We really have nothing to fear Step up open that Bible. Let God Control the crowd and I've seen it as has

01:24:03

Ryan Hundreds and hundreds of times where the very people who are giving you the most trouble are the ones in tears by the time

01:24:09

That you're done preaching and so God's gonna have his way and he you know, he uses his word to accomplish his purposes

01:24:17

But when ministers and I'm gonna I'm gonna just throw this out for a second when ministers take a pragmatic approach that I'm not seeing

01:24:24

Results and so this doesn't work They're missing what God's doing, he may not be doing anything we can see often it isn't something we can see but that's his business

01:24:36

Pardon me. No, I was agreeing with you Our job is to stand in our post like Jesus said if I tell him to come and I tell you to stay

01:24:44

What's business without you? I was talking to Peter. So, you know our job is to stand at the post I go in front of abortion clinics every week.

01:24:50

I hate going there. I only go there for one reason just to make much of Christ I mean, it's my flesh hate to go in there.

01:24:56

I made fun of it's all the things I would never pick But God didn't say Scott pick the things you want to do I'm just supposed to stand at my post and it's his business what he does with it

01:25:04

And if his goal simply for me to have my flesh abased For his glory, that's a good enough goal for me

01:25:11

And and I think we've got to we've got to impart and I've tried to do this by my contacts with some of the seminaries

01:25:16

We've got to get ministers to get past Worrying if people like them we need to ask ourselves the question is

01:25:23

God pleased with what I'm doing And if God's pleased with what I'm doing, this has been a successful day This has been a day where there's been results

01:25:30

This has been a day where people made decisions and not based it on people raising their hands and and making professions of faith

01:25:36

That may not be credible so that comes for you theology, right and To just define a couple of things for our listeners because of phrases that you used sometimes we have listeners that are new

01:25:48

Christians that are From traditions outside of the Reformed faith and we sometimes even have

01:25:54

Muslims and others listening Oh, but but Arminians and Pelagians An Arminian would be one who would agree with a lot of what we as Reformed Christians believe but they believe that ultimately a man a sinful man apart from regeneration

01:26:15

Has some kind of an innate ability to make a decision to follow

01:26:21

Christ And therefore he is the one that ultimately determines where he's going to be spending an eternity whereas a

01:26:31

Reformed Christian obviously believes that everything is ordained by a sovereign

01:26:36

God who's in control of everything and even our very gift of Faith The fact that we made a decision to follow

01:26:46

Christ after our regeneration and that's a that's a key phrase there after regeneration That is all from God.

01:26:53

It had nothing to do with some innate goodness in us or innate Ability and a

01:26:59

Pelagian is farther away from what we would believe as an Arminian because they don't even believe in the original sin

01:27:09

That has been passed down from Adam to all of humanity they believe that Infants are conceived in their mother's womb basically morally neutral And they have to learn how to sin by observing their fellow humans and There's a whole lot of other things that involved with Pelagianism they don't even believe grace is a necessary Element of somebody

01:27:38

Coming to faith in Christ and being saved. They think it's helpful, but it's not necessary and so on and so forth, so Would you say that the majority of what is out there under the guise of open -air preaching unfortunately?

01:27:53

is Involving those who are Arminian and even worse Pelagian Yeah, I would

01:28:00

I would definitely say that that's true. And by the way, you know the Reformed I mean you can put the

01:28:05

Reformed perspective in three or four words regeneration precedes faith the regeneration precedes saving faith That's the Reformed principle

01:28:11

And so you either believe that or you don't and the Arminian and the Pelagian don't believe that regeneration precedes saving faith

01:28:18

So they're going to put the onus on man and man's ability either a complete ability or a partial ability

01:28:24

But the Reformed preacher has confidence in God's ability and he's promised that he'll give you

01:28:30

In the day his power he'll show himself strong he'll do and accomplish what it is he sets his word to do

01:28:36

So, you know, yes, the majority are I'd say Pelagian But I do see a wonderful turn and that's part of what

01:28:45

I've done The reason I left my school and started Schoolmaster Ministries was simply to mentor younger preachers I mean, I never saw myself as a career open -air preacher was going to make a living from it.

01:28:55

That's a unique call It's a call Ryan has but my call was more Mentor the younger men that are coming up next because I'm 63

01:29:01

So I when I left my school, I'd already by God grace be able to support myself So I was able to just kind of do this for free that's something

01:29:09

I wanted to do the impact of the open -air community and turn the tide and And I'm seeing hundreds and hundreds of guys over the last 10 years

01:29:17

Most weekend warriors, but hundreds of guys that now understand, you know

01:29:22

The Reformed perspective on open for preaching and even though they can only get out there, you know for an hour or two on a Saturday they're starting to have a message where the reliance is upon the sovereignty of God rather than Giving away candy or holding up a $20 bill or you know just some of the gimmicks that have used through the years by people just confident in the preached

01:29:40

Word of God and and that's You know that comes from your theology. Now one thing one thing that we are

01:29:50

Often told by those outside of the Reformed faith Especially Christians outside of the

01:29:56

Reformed faith Arminians and so on is that Why are you even doing this open -air preaching or any evangelism at all?

01:30:04

Because if God has this rigged from before the foundation of the world who is going to believe and he

01:30:13

Is not giving this gift of faith to others In fact the majority of humanity whom he has created then why even bother?

01:30:23

with this open -air preaching or any kind of preaching and radio and television evangelism and writing on and on and on, you know, we'll answer that question if you could and Then we have to go to our final break here.

01:30:37

If you could Ryan, we'll start with you and then Scott will final We'll follow up with you You know

01:30:43

God uses means I mean, that's that's what you see throughout scripture. God uses me. It's a great privilege To be able to go out and actually take part in you know

01:30:52

No way is it our doing that when it comes to someone's salvation? But it's a great privilege to be able to to go forth and to know that God actually

01:31:00

Has told us to go out and do this. I mean, that's that's However, you look at it

01:31:06

You can look at it from the fact that it's a command that Christ gives us to go But but it is a reality that God uses human beings

01:31:13

To go out and to share his message and by using human beings like us We're very fallible and prone to make mistakes and blunder in our speech and all these other things

01:31:22

The fact is is that God uses human beings like us to deliver that message in and to the extent that he does that he

01:31:29

Gets more praise and more glory for us because in ourselves nothing and and so I it's it's just you know

01:31:36

God being sovereign has also Sovereignly ordained how it is that he wants the gospel to go forth in order to save those people that he has

01:31:44

Sovereignly chosen to save and so that it's a great privilege to be able to just just jump in and and to know that God really is using us

01:31:54

And Scott well Ryan did a good job. Yeah, that was a very very concise So I would agree.

01:32:00

It is the means God's chosen Although God reserves the right to work against me and through means and you know

01:32:05

But what he's given us to do is me So if we if the means that we are supposed to be using is to exalt

01:32:12

Christ by his word But that's that's the means God given us given us a Bible And he is going to definitely promised if you so sparingly gonna reach sparingly

01:32:20

So we have confidence that in God's sovereignty that will be abundant reaping

01:32:25

But it's not up to us to see it And in fact, I think probably God hides most of it to enhance our joy on the day of glory and force us to walk by faith and not get you know to uppity

01:32:37

But but the other thing, you know that Ryan mentioned is this great privilege of being just Identified with Jesus Christ and feeling just a little bit what it was like for him to be rejected

01:32:48

Constantly throughout his whole life and I think for me it's given me an even greater love for Christ what he was willing to suffer

01:32:54

You know, you know as a real man God and his real man suffering the whip of the world in a sense the rejection of the world the even the rejection of his family and something about the privilege of being identified with Christ and tasting a little bit of that rejection gives me a greater love for him and if there was nothing else that was gained then a

01:33:17

More fervent love for Christ, you know that that to me is I mean, that's a payoff as it is

01:33:23

Yes, and let us not forget that evangelism is a command of Of God himself to every

01:33:31

Christian, of course, not that open -air preaching is a command to every single person because I'm sure you both would believe that there are only certain individuals who are qualified to Be involved in open -air preaching and I'll have you address that when we return from our final break but we

01:33:51

It's it is a means but it's also a commanded means we are not to keep our mouths shut about our faith when we are having lunch or dinner with our neighbors or we are having some social time with our colleagues at work or Any other realm of life even our own family over a

01:34:13

Thanksgiving dinner table We are not to just keep our mouths shut and keep it as as most of humanity who has any respect for religion

01:34:24

Regards it as something personal and private between you and your maker. That is not what

01:34:29

Christian That is not the way Christians are to view the the only hope for the salvation of the lost

01:34:38

Right, okay, we're going to our final break right now And if you want to join us, I would do so now forever

01:34:44

Hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

01:34:50

Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves personal and private matter, don't go away

01:35:00

We'll be right back with Ryan Denton and Scott Smith on open -air preaching

01:35:10

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Gary Kimbrough pastor Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi God tells us in James 1 27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit the fatherless and widows and their affliction and the providence

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Of God three years ago. I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka Zambia in a township called

01:36:55

Cabanana Who are taking care of 24 orphans? I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding

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What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children said heavily upon me as I was praying concerning this need it came to me

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Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or BBC laurel .com.

01:37:52

Thank you Hello, my name is James Renahan and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas The Word of God says if a man desires the office of an overseer he desires a good thing

01:38:07

Do you have the desire to serve Jesus Christ in pastoral ministry? 20 years ago the

01:38:13

Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies at Westminster Seminary, California was born for those two decades

01:38:18

These institutions work together to train men for ministry in Reformed Baptist Churches.

01:38:24

It's been a wonderful partnership Now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses

01:38:31

Leading to the Master of Divinity degree. This is IRBS Theological Seminary We believe that the scriptures of the

01:38:38

Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant Word of God The Jesus Christ is God in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life death and resurrection

01:38:46

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01:43:05

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, and this is our last 15 minutes of today's program

01:43:10

I already know that I want to invite back onto the program

01:43:16

Ryan Denton and Scott Smith to continue the discussion on a certain sound a primer on open -air preaching

01:43:22

So I will do that when we go off the air But if you have any questions that you'd like to ask send them in now because we're rapidly running out of time

01:43:31

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and I mentioned before the break that I'd like you to To address who should and who should not be involved in open -air preaching.

01:43:47

I think the stance that we take Primarily is just mature

01:43:52

Christians Certainly men that comes out of you know straight from Scripture first Timothy that Because this is different from evangelism like you've already mentioned there there are

01:44:03

I would say different qualifications or maybe even restrictions when it comes to open -air preaching that's the stance

01:44:09

I would take and I think a Good basis for that would be the the

01:44:15

Christian that you find in first Timothy and Titus chapter 1

01:44:20

I First Timothy 3 that is I I mean that's that to me It's you know,

01:44:25

I've met a lot of guys and I'm sure Scott's met even more who who and I think we could say the same

01:44:31

Thing we don't feel adequate to be open -air preaching. And so I think a lot of times we can kind of evaluate ourselves, which is great and and Say well, you know what?

01:44:42

I'm not worthy to preach the gospel on the streets. Therefore. I won't which is not great

01:44:47

You know In other words, you'll never get to the place where you're where you're worthy enough or you're holy enough or you're refined enough to be able

01:44:57

To preach and yet at the same time like you see in Scott's life, especially in all of our lives But but Scott's life, especially there is there is a period in which

01:45:06

God does mold you and shape you I know for me the first the first time I saw somebody open -air preaching

01:45:12

Was right after I converted I was 23 and and something clenched in it just I had to do that I had to go out and preach in the open air

01:45:21

But it was for me it was about six or seven years before I actually went out and did it and through that period

01:45:27

I would not ready at 43 and And there are still so many things that that that I'm working on and working through just just running the

01:45:36

Christian race But at the end of the day, it's it, you know I think the tendency is to make some of these things an excuse to keep people up because your flesh is going to look for Any excuse possible not to go out and so sometimes

01:45:49

I think that can be a factor But it is to say that it is very important to be a mature Christian Mainly because of the things that you're going to encounter when you do go out

01:45:58

There are so many opportunities to get into the flesh whenever you go out and open air preach It is highly it's usually important to make sure that that you are walking in the spirit, you know

01:46:10

Even as as reformed people. I think we should be able to say that that we are constantly trying to Live in a way that pleases

01:46:19

God whether we're open -air preaching or not And so I think that's that's that's what you have.

01:46:24

I think a mature Christian anything that Scott Well, you know

01:46:30

Ryan articulated what our end game is our end game is obviously to have people who add to their faith virtue into Virtue knowledge so that they become, you know, even maybe seminary trained, you know

01:46:40

So that they they you know, bring their zeal up to a place where they're also operating from a place of knowledge

01:46:46

But by one caveat, I'm sure Ryan won't disagree if you know, you take the gathering demoniac and the gathering demoniac was powerfully delivered by Christ and Jesus said look you can't come with me to go back and tell everybody what you did what

01:46:59

I did for you What God did for you? Well, I can't imagine that gathering demoniac just sitting around to a one -on -one for the coffee shop

01:47:05

I mean when you've experienced that kind of great deliverance by a Sovereign God who cared enough about you to rescue you from the misery

01:47:12

You're gonna want to shout it from the housetops. And so my one caveat would be Just like the blind man.

01:47:18

I don't know, you know, whether this man's a sinner But what I know is I was blind and now I see Sometimes the people of a young convert is very infectious and beautiful.

01:47:28

And so I don't want to squelch it I just sometimes have to see we are convert now remain teachable and and make sure there are men in your life that are checks

01:47:35

And balances but but the truth is it's such a unique call from God that I just don't think you can stop a man

01:47:40

Who's genuinely called but I would say with Paul said Timothy wait on your ministry That would be my general counsel to young men is wait on your ministry, you know study to show you something proof

01:47:51

Make sure you know the Bible make sure you understand your theology But but you know, there's no acid test.

01:47:57

There's no litmus test to know for sure when a guy's ready. It's such a personal thing That you know,

01:48:03

Ryan's articulated our endgame. We want to see everybody moving in a direction But at the end of the day,

01:48:09

I can't judge another man's servant. Sometimes God puts some odd ducks right on the front line Chris if I if I can ask them real quickly,

01:48:16

I think you know I think the church is a great place for that to be evaluated I think the the difficulty though is again going back to what we started out with There are very few churches that are actually on board with open -air preaching and actively attempting to help

01:48:33

Men get out and do it. And so I think that's one of the other reasons for writing this book is so that By God's grace it can be used even not just for open -air preachers

01:48:43

But but for pastors and for ministers and for churches to be able to read this and say, okay We have some guys in our church who want to open their preach.

01:48:50

How should we go about getting them out there? You know because a lot of pastors are unfamiliar.

01:48:56

This is unfamiliar territory And so I think I I mean the local church is a great place

01:49:01

But but there's the difficulty is that there's there are very few places where you can go and actually

01:49:09

Be supported in this type of ministry. And so I think there's there's a there is tension there

01:49:16

We have only time today for one questioner. She has two questions

01:49:22

One for each of you, but Susan and so talk at Long Island, New York First of all for Ryan asks how difficult is it to separate the

01:49:31

Native American desire? To keep to traditional practices in their religious life and then this and the necessary incorporation of biblical

01:49:39

Christianity to their worship Obviously Susan is referring to your experiencing as a pastor on the

01:49:45

Navajo Reservation So if you could please respond to that and it has to be a summary form because we're running out of time

01:49:52

Right. Yeah, the Native Americans one of the things that surprised me most was that There has been a lot of groundwork already done and on the

01:50:01

Navajo Reservation as far as Christianity goes So you have churches there and the the main difficulty is that in their traditions in their beliefs?

01:50:10

They're very synchronous Syncretistic in the system, they'll take on Christianity. They'll it's it's almost like the the

01:50:17

Hindus, you know, they'll they have no problem Believing in Jesus or calling Jesus Lord or anything like that, but they're also they're also going to take in All the other

01:50:27

God and so that's the two thing and it's very difficult, of course to try to really define and spell out

01:50:33

Okay, what exactly are we talking about when we talk about the exclusivity of Jesus Christ?

01:50:40

And what does Christ mean whenever he says, you know, he is the way the truth the life and so It is difficult, but at the same time there has been a lot of work already done.

01:50:51

There's churches over there There's still more work to be done because most of the churches are not biblical churches, but I hope that helps but there's a

01:51:00

But yeah, it's it'll it'll take a lot longer than a couple minutes to respond adequately to that.

01:51:06

So well, perhaps when you come back the next time God willing we'll have you do that and Susan's question for Scott Smith is

01:51:16

What about? What about classical education fueled your desire to transition into open -air preaching

01:51:25

Well, you know open -air classical education is about helping people think and It imparts a certain set of skills

01:51:34

Dialectic rhetoric grammar certain skills. And so what I Realized is that a lot of Christians Get to their colleges and they're browbeat and they don't have that that set of skills that they need to actually stand up to their fellow students or particular professors and and take a stand for Things they know to be true and a classical education gives you a great confidence that you can discern what is true

01:51:58

What is good? What is beautiful and it gives you a set of skills whereby you feel capable and empowered to actually articulate that position

01:52:06

So, I mean, I'm a big believer classic education You can see how we get kids into Harvard and Yale and Princeton and you know

01:52:13

Oxford and Cambridge when they were 12 to 13 years of age So they had a set of academic skills and the ability to use those skills to advance truth in a particular truth about Christ So it was a great preparation for me a teacher always learns more than the student

01:52:26

I taught every grade from 4 to 12 at some college And so, you know, I just had a confidence that I understood what the issue really was

01:52:34

I had a confidence that God's Word would not return void and the only thing that I felt was lacking is just people saying

01:52:39

Well, I'm here. I'm ready. I'm willing you deserve it And and so I think that that did help me personally tremendously

01:52:46

Not only in that regard but also all the different subjects I had a chance to study before getting out of the open air because they always want to make the minister the preacher look dumb and so once they realize

01:52:55

I'm not gonna be able to pull that over on him he does seem to know a lot about a lot of things and this sort of It there's a certain sense in which they kind of respect you a little bit more maybe listen a little bit better Okay.

01:53:07

Well, thank you. Susan in Setoka, Long Island, New York excellent questions and keep listening and keep spreading the word about iron trip and Zion radio in Long Island or on Long Island and Beyond we have time for one more actually one more question.

01:53:21

We have Ronald Also on Long Island in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York We have

01:53:28

Ronald who asks I heard Tony Miano an open -air preacher on your show

01:53:33

Say that he would insist if somebody is participating with him in open -air preaching

01:53:40

That they have the approval and calling of their own local elders and congregation

01:53:46

Would you have the same requirement for those you believe are qualified to open -air preach?

01:53:52

Otherwise in my opinion, they would be going against the wishes of their gone or God ordained leaders

01:53:59

Yeah It's definitely it's complicated. I would definitely agree with that Practice I try to maintain here at El Paso.

01:54:09

I have a great board of church here But again, the reality is that It's it's difficult for an open -air preacher to find a local church that supports what he does and not just lip service

01:54:22

But really really seeing the the need and the necessity and the burden and the call of open -air preaching

01:54:28

When you think that he would need at least lip service though, so that they exactly know that's where it starts for sure

01:54:35

No doubt, but but the difficulty is because I think what happens is pastors know that open -air preaching is biblical and And so they can't you know a biblical pastor is not going to say no you shouldn't you shouldn't be doing that I don't see that in the

01:54:49

Bible. They know it's in the Bible The difficulty is is really Seeing the the call to do that in trying to equip that man to be able to fulfill that call

01:55:02

Now there are churches out there believe you There are many churches out there across America a few even in the

01:55:08

UK that do support open -air preaching So we're not trying to say none of them do but it is it is the reality that a lot of times

01:55:14

It is difficult to find somebody who is supportive and and yeah, of course I mean, I would definitely take the view and that's something that we argue in the book that the importance of the local church and when you say wouldn't you say though that a

01:55:27

Person a member of a church though if their elders are saying to you We don't think you're qualified to do this.

01:55:34

We don't think that you understand the scriptures well enough We don't think that your oratory skills your homiletic abilities are really appropriate for that I mean, shouldn't they listen to their elders about that?

01:55:45

Yes, absolutely, and I would say absolutely Yes, and and again, I I would

01:55:50

I would I would argue also that Yeah, I mean some guys are just not qualified to preach first It talks about that in the lecture to my students

01:55:58

I think it's a great chapter on that that not everybody who thinks they're called to preach should be preaching I would say the same thing with guys in the open air

01:56:05

Sometimes, you know, there there are just guys that probably shouldn't be doing open -air preaching That is not to say though that they should just be written off automatically, right?

01:56:15

They are lacking those gifts so Well, you know complicated always a little balance to this and here's my little comment of balance and that would be even

01:56:24

Tony will tell You he had churches that didn't agree with him right there preaching and he had to leave those church

01:56:29

So I I think in a perfect world in an ideal setting we'd like to see every every street preacher plugged into a good

01:56:35

Bible -believing performed church And I think that most of the guys that we know would love to have that and try to find it

01:56:43

But I'll give you just a quick example before we run out of time I was attending a Presbyterian Church here in Raleigh, North Carolina, and I had a minister who was a wonderful Brother and he used to go out and preach with me at the clinics and preach with me on the streets and loved open -air preaching and spoke about it from the pulpit how it's important that we as a church be doing this and then when he left and Another minister came in he immediately did 180 and said no if you're not

01:57:07

If you haven't been ordained in the OPC, you're not allowed to open -air preach I mean, so sometimes we have to just be careful with super hard and fast rules and try to say to a guy

01:57:17

Look, you know six months from now a year for that You really need to be plugged in someplace, but we understand there are some guys who whatever presuppositions they hold they're going to look down on you and That's just a sad reality of the world we live in and it's part of where a street preacher has to really be tough

01:57:33

Is to ask himself the question am I resisting being guided or am I getting some bad guidance?

01:57:38

And and it's not a clear -cut and dried situation, right? I want to make sure that our listeners have all of the contact information that they need

01:57:47

To get a hold of my guests. First of all, we have the website Christ in the wild calm

01:57:54

Christ in the wild calm That is the ministry of our guest

01:57:59

Ryan Denton Scott Smith has a ministry also That we want to highlight for you

01:58:06

School master ministries calm school master ministries calm

01:58:13

Reformation heritage books who publishes the book that we are addressing a certain sound a primer on open -air preaching

01:58:21

That website is heritage books org heritage books org.

01:58:27

And of course, you could always purchase any book Highlighted on iron trip design radio at CV BBS calm the website of Cumberland Valley Bible book service

01:58:36

CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service calm I also want to give a brief caveat about something

01:58:44

I said earlier in the beginning of the program I didn't want to give you the false impression that I think a ministry who stops conducting open -air preaching in a specific geographic area is

01:58:57

Guilty of cowardice or being ashamed of the gospel Obviously there are reasons why that may be the case why that may be necessary or why that may be prudent

01:59:07

I know specifically Brothers in Christ who very appropriately stopped doing open -air evangelism in a certain area that was saturated with nasty hateful

01:59:22

Unbiblical King James only type Mavericks Who are just spewing hate speech rather than the gospel in a loving and compassionate way?

01:59:35

And they just decided not to be identified with groups like this People who aren't even members of local churches and they ceased

01:59:42

Doing their open -air evangelism in that specific geographic area So I just want to make that clarification