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Is there anything good in Congregationalism?
Welcome to No Compromise Radio Ministry. Steve Cooley, give me some news. Tell me something about you. Give you... Enough about me, let's talk about you. I don't know, I mean, you know, grandchild number six, just a few months away, and nothing really new other than that.
Now your daughter Megan is going to have a boy, and I think this is hard. I think boys may be harder for her to carry. Well, yeah, she's having some issues. She can't, I mean, she can walk. It's just painful to walk.
She has that whole hip displacement thing, you know, where it can just kind of pop out. So I was talking to my stepmom, and she was saying she went through that, actually with her first child, my sister.
So yeah, we were just talking about how painful that can be and everything. So Megan, like, we're gonna go to Storyland here in a month, and Megan's gonna be in a wheelchair that whole time, because it's just too much walking, she can't do it.
Well, when I was going to go to Israel for the first time, Kim and I were newly married. It was 1990, we'd been married for less than a year, and we were going with Calvary Chapel West Covina, Raul Reis, and it was my mother, Grandma Evie.
It's so funny to me, sorry, but that Calvary Chapel was like half a mile from where I grew up. It used to be a Safeway. Yeah. And we went there in 90, I believe, and Grandma, at the time, I think she still had another, you know, 15 years to live, but her hip was really bad, and she was gonna have to go in a wheelchair.
And I was a brand-new Christian, and I'm not trying to make any excuses, Steve, but I was thinking to myself, I finally get to go to Israel, the trip of a lifetime, and I gotta push Grandma on a wheelchair.
Seriously. And you know, there are three busloads of people, I'm in the back, I can't see, you know, Pontius Pilate's little chair or something, you know, and I had a bad attitude. I mean, it wasn't like I was every day thinking about it, but I just thought, you know, but I want to serve her, and you know, I'll just do it anyway.
I go against my feelings and do it. And then what do you know? Oh, here's a lady in a wheelchair. You guys need to be front-center every time. You know, everybody's jockeying for position at every spot we go to, and oh, you need to come right up here, and man, that was a shamer.
In Christian love, they were... I know, I totally got shamed by that one. Anyway, one of these days, maybe I'll have some grandkids, I just realized that I have outlived my father. My father died at 55, and I'm 56, so I've outlived my dad.
That's weird. Yeah, that's kind of weird. Strange. Steve, when it comes to confessions of faith, can you think of any? Like, what are some of the confessions of faith that you... Westminster Confession of Faith, London Baptist Confession of Faith, 1689.
Yeah, you know, and here's the great thing about those confessions of faith, they just kind of, like, you know, every 30, 40 years, they would just generate a new one, or modify it slightly. Yeah, well, it was for London Baptist Confession, the first one was 1644, and this is actually, I think, called the second London Baptist Confession, 1689.
So you're right, and I don't know if it was Abraham Kuyper, but I believe it to be so. Therefore it is so, if it's in my mind. Sure, because subjectivity is truth. I think he said something to the effect that the problem with creeds and confessions is we just don't keep updating them.
That was the essence of it. That was, you know, you just have to kind of keep going. So it was like a living and breathing document. Kind of, but not really. Okay. And in my hand, I have something that people aren't really familiar with, but I think if they read it, they would like it.
Because most people that listen to our show probably are WCF people. I didn't say WWF, I said WCSF, Westminster Confession of Faith, or 1689 folks. Yeah. But here I have in front of me, Steve, the Savoy Declaration of Faith, with the heads of agreement.
Hmm. Right? And if I said Introduction by Robert E. Davis, you might not know, but if it said Forward by David F. Wells... Well then I'd be all in. So what I like to do, and you can even get a little app, I don't know who makes the app, but you can get a little Confessions and Creeds app.
Athanasius Creed is on there, Heidelberg, I love the Heidelberg Confession. Hmm. Catechism. Mm-hmm. Here is the Savoy Declaration of Faith. This is the Calvinistic Congregationalist Confession of Faith.
Yeah, pretty good. Yeah. And when you read it, by the way, it was first published in 1659, right? So even before West... Did it say 1658? Sorry, 1658. Yes, it does. Sorry. And I opened, this is true, randomly, to Of Free Will.
So let's see, do these Congregationalists... So you exercised your free will and wound up in... Okay. What do they say? What do the Congregationalists say about free will? God has endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced nor by any absolute necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.
I think they're generally talking about free agency. People make choices, right? They're not robots. I've made choices since the time that I was born. Two, man in his state of innocency has freedom and power to will and to do that which was good and well-pleasing to God, but yet mutably so that he might fall from it.
So Adam could make choices according to his nature that pleased God, but he was not immutably fixed in his nature because he sinned. And once he sinned, his nature changed. That's right. I think that's what's gonna happen in number three.
Okay. Savoy Confession. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has wholly, W-H, lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation. Now let's stop right there. Isn't that a good definition?
Isn't that excellent? Wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation. I think it's very good. You can choose, if you'd like, who your favorite team is. Steve, did you know, actually, of my own free will?
While I used to root for Green Bay Packers, I now root for the Patriots. Really? I changed over the last 20 years. I never thought I would, you know, the pack is divine, D-E, right? Dan Devine. Yeah, Dan Devine.
And the pack is back, but I switched of my own free will. Hmm. Can you imagine? To the cheatin' Patriots. But I could not, as an unbeliever, decide by my own will to do spiritual good accompany salvation.
Which means the sorts of things that only saved people would do. That's, yeah, that's why we need it. Yeah, that's right. He goes on to say, or it goes on to say, so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself or to prepare himself thereunto.
So they're denying solo bootstraps-a, right there. They are. You know, that would be a good question for our Pelagian, semi Pelagian-type friends. Do you, true or false? By your own strength, can you convert yourself?
Doesn't that just kind of cut to the issue? Can you convert yourself? And if the answer is yes, well, then we pretty much know where you are, right? Then the point about a reprobate mind is proven. Thank you for demonstrating our point.
Number four. Now these have Scripture references here, and it goes back to, I just regularly like to read some of the creeds, canons of Dort, Heidelberg, Westminster, 1689, because in general they have just such a high view of God, and they're proven kind of documents that we don't hold over Scripture or equal to Scripture, but they are...in my mind, Steve, tell me if you think the same way.
It's almost like reading a systematic theology book in a night. You just quickly read it in one or two nights, and you think, okay, that's a good overview of the Christian faith. Yeah, it's kind of a distillation of Scripture.
There you go. Okay. When God converts a sinner, number four, and translates him into the state of grace, he frees him from his natural bondage under sin, and by his grace alone enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good.
Yet so as that by reason of his remaining corruption he does not perfectly or only will that which is good, but does also will that which is evil. So there's a sin principle still abiding in him. He's not...he's free from the penalty of sin and the power of sin, but not quite the presence of sin.
Would you say that? You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Number five, the will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to do good alone in the state of glory only. Hmm. Which means no sin in heaven, right?
And Steve, how about this? For those listeners who hold on to their vaunted free will...is it vaunted or vaulted? It's vaunted. I know. They hold on to their free will. Will heaven to you, my friend, my listening friend, really be so wonderful?
Because the will and the... It's bound. Yeah, yeah, to its glorified nature in heaven? Yeah, you'll no longer have the option to sin. Couldn't sin if you wanted to, because you won't want to. Maybe you'll pass around a petition going, with all due respect, I'd like to be able to sin.
I mean, that will be the best in heaven, and you won't have any desire to sin, you won't think about sin. Steve, I wonder if anybody will even think of any sin in heaven. I don't think so, because that would probably be a...
Okay, trick question, though. Yeah. But if you looked at Jesus's hands and side and feet... I don't know. I mean, maybe all you think about is just, you know, the suffering, the pain, everything that He went through, and not so much the why, you know, because if you got to the why, then you might reflect on your own sinfulness, and how could there then be no tears in heaven?
I thought you were gonna go Eric Clapton on me for a second. Seriously, that's what I thought you were gonna do. Well, you know, I'm pretty sure he's a Christian, based on that song. All right, here we are reading a few excerpts from the Savoy Declaration of Faith.
Most Congregationalists that you run into, especially here in New England, are UCC. They would be liberal. I don't think they like the Savoy Confession, but if you have evangelical Congregationalists, 4C Congregationalists, conservative Congregationalists, they might enjoy the Savoy, and I just like reading it, even though I'm not a Congregationalist.
I am a congregant, though. Well, I'm not a Congregationalist either, because I'm personally against mob rule. Oh, sorry, did I say that? Well, Steve, as we all know, obviously, at No Compromise Radio, we've been taught that there was voting in the New Testament.
They all voted to kill Stephen. And it was unanimous. All right, I just open up to another section of adoption, section 12, Savoy Confession. All those that are justified, God vouchsafes in, and for his only Son, Jesus Christ, to make partakers of the grace of adoption, by which they are taken into the number and enjoy the liberties and privileges of the children of God.
Stop there. That's just kind of neat to think about, being adopted into the family of God. God's the one that adopts. It's amazing, and I don't think, you know, this is one of the things, I just don't think Christians spend enough time focusing on what they have, and what has been given to them, and I think, you know, again, I say it all the time, focus too much on our problems, too much on our issues, too much on the things that, quote-unquote, depress us, and not on the amazing blessings that are ours in Christ Jesus.
Steve, to think about God as Father, I mean, you, I know, miss your dad, I miss my dad, we're not sure if either of our dads, you know, are in heaven, but there is a Father who's in heaven. Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
Preach. It goes on to say here, this is really neat. If you're a Christian, can you imagine? It says, privileges of the children of God, have his name put on them, receive the spirit of adoption, have access to the throne of grace with boldness, are enabled to cry, Abba Father.
Are pitied, protected, this is what fathers do, pitied, protected, provided for, and chastened by him as by a father, yet never cast off, but sealed to the day of redemption, and inherit the promises as heirs of everlasting salvation.
Never cast off. Steve, for every one of these phrases, there's a little footnote with a Bible verse that you could look up, and I will say, without a regret, you could read something like this as part of your devotions, because it's so good, it's so God-centered, it's so the condescending love of God, the triune God for sinners like us, that he would adopt us into his family.
Can I ask you a rather inane question? Sure. What would you say about pastors, because I recently saw this, who want to pray, particularly in public, this way? Dear Daddy. Well, there's some debate about the Abba word, and I just don't like to do the whole Daddy thing.
I will talk about intimacy, I will talk about a father who, you know, provides for, pities, protects, what do dads do, and that we have the intimacy of son and father, but I would never, ever pray Dear Daddy.
Ever. Did I mention I never would do that? I think you did mention that. I mean, to me, it's just a matter of respect, and it's not some kind of formalistic, legalistic sort of thing, it's just, I think the sentiment of Daddy might be right, but I think when you use that word, it's just so colloquial, and so it just sounds too crass, and it imports a lot of ideas that I'm not really comfortable with.
Well, if I look at Romans chapter 8 in the sense of the context with suffering, if you're in the middle of some major suffering and you cry out, Abba, Father, and if you said, Daddy, help, Dad, help, I would understand where you're coming from.
But A, in public worship settings, and B, when I look at the prayer that the Lord taught us to pray, our Father, he didn't add in any Aramaic, you know, Abba stuff, and then it talks about our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
And I think there's a reverence that's there that's not the intimate part of Romans 8. If you're suffering, you have a Daddy Father, an Abba Father, and I think there is, again, like I said, some scholarship that argues against Daddy.
I'm with you. All right. Steve, in the section of good works, and we were just talking about good works in between shows as we were dealing with Norman Shepard and a final justification with the works, good works are important, and good works have a place, and I think Savoy helped us to be reminded of our good works and their place.
Okay. And by the way, their place is never in terms of justification. Our good works and justification should never be talked about simultaneously. Would you agree with that? Yes. So what do you mean by that?
Do you just mean that we're not, are you just simply trying to say that we're not justified by means of our own works? That's right, and there are Federal Vision people, Norman Shepard people, and others that we'll talk about in future shows that confuse our works with a final justification.
Justification is based on the work of Christ. That's the positive side, right? His perfect life. And if I can talk about negatively, that's probably the wrong word, but our negative side, that is our sins.
Jesus pays for our sins. Because the idea of justification by our works, I mean, to me it gets perilously close to Roman Catholicism. It is! Yeah, what's the difference, you know? I mean, you have to really walk a fine line to step away from Catholicism, and I think you are really walking a fine line.
I think, Steve, whatever motivations people have for this, and maybe it's they don't want antinomianism or something, it's Rome, basically. You know, it's like, we haven't learned the lesson from Rome yet, and so that's the direction we go.
So I like the Savoy. Of course, Westminster and Heidelberg and London Baptist, they're very similar, but we're just talking about just a kind of an odd historic document today. Odd because we're not Congregationalists, but we could learn from them.
It's kind of a Savoy truffle. Good works are only such as God has commanded in his Holy Word, and not such as without the warrant thereof are devised by men out of blind zeal or upon any pretense of good intention.
In other words, you can't just say, I'll make up the ways to please God. God has specifically told us what pleases him. Which is? Okay. Perfection. No, number two. These good works, done in obedience to God's commandments.
Now here's the key, and of course Westminster and London Baptist and others would stress it this exact same way. Are fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith. I think that's Westminster. I think that's London Baptist.
That's how it is. They're fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith. That's why they can't be involved with justification. That forensic declaration, not guilty, no longer condemned. It can't have our works because our works are tainted, and it's all about the works of Christ.
Let's just use some imagery here. Belief would be the branch, right? And then a fruitful branch, a living branch, a living faith produces fruit. That's what it does. And to add in, to make sure we're parsing things properly, this faith is not faithfulness, it's faith in Jesus, right?
It means nothing. We're just receiving something that's already been done for sinners. It's, faith isn't meritorious in any way. That's right. It's a non-meritorious instrument. So they're fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith, and it would be fair to say if there are no works in your life, do you have a lively faith?
Right? But... I mean, that's right back to Matthew 7, right? And if you go to the thief on the cross, all right, you don't have to have any works, but I would submit to you that he showed evidence of his lively faith by calling out to the Lord, and we could talk about some of those things.
Right, and there are other instances of that, but you know, I wouldn't recommend waiting to your last breath to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. And by them, good works, believers manifest their thankfulness, that's a good thing to do.
Yes. Strengthen their assurance, oh, I'm doing what Christians do, this is an evidence of my faith. Edify their brethren, we can't do it for Jesus on earth, so we do it for his bride on earth, unto Jesus as if.
Adorn the profession of the gospel, stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glorify God. This is similar to other confessions. Whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus their unto, that having their fruit unto holiness, that they may have the end, eternal life.
Well, let me just put it another way. If you sin, does that encourage you to believe that you're a believer, or does it discourage you? Well, it discourages you. Does it mean that you're not a Christian?
No. If you obey, does it encourage you or discourage you? Well, it encourages you. Does it mean that you're a Christian? Well, it might, but it's not the cause, you know, just, you can't disqualify yourself from being a Christian, and you can't qualify yourself to being a Christian, because it was never about you in the first place.
I tweeted Ersinus's quote on purpose to try to be a little inflammatory. Ooh. He said, good works aren't required, now it goes on. Yeah, which is good. That by them we may apprehend the merits of Christ.
You don't apprehend the merits of Christ by good works. You receive the merits of Christ through the non-meritorious instrument of faith. And then it says, much less that we may be justified on account of them.
So strictly speaking, there's no room for our works when it comes to justification, because essentially you're going to be able to lose your justification like Norman Shepard taught, and you're either a Catholic or you're not.
I think that's what Godfrey was talking about in that book. Well, and you know, you get right back to Romans 8 and the golden chain of salvation, and you know, what intervenes between your calling, your knowing, your calling, and justification?
You know, where is the good works in Romans 8? Where is that, you know, to get you to your justification? And it's not there. Well, I think he's probably trying to encourage people, so he, I know he skips sanctification, doesn't he?
Well, yeah, just like, kind of, or you sort of meld it together with justification like Rome does, you know. I'm looking at Westminster Confession, it says the same thing, stop the mouths of the adversaries and glorify God.
I think good works do that. Yes, they do. Yeah, but they don't have any merit when it comes to justification. I mean, it's nice, right, when unbelievers look at your life and say something nice about it, right?
I mean, that's good, so they can't critique you. Somebody said on Facebook, you know, the other day, something about me being nice, which is nice. It's nice to be nice and it's good to be good. It won't get me to heaven, but it's nice.
And you know, it's nice to be called nice these days, when nice today doesn't mean what nice meant a generation ago. Very true. That's very nice. It's a nice knife. R. Scott Clark has that show of nice and men.
That's like the virtue these days. You have to be nice, and it's such a subjective thing. Oh, they're nice. Very nice. Yeah, and you start speaking the truth in love and you're not so nice. Hate speech, that's a way to curtail free speech.
And hate speech is any speech which makes you feel guilty. I know. Anyway, Mike Ebenroth here with Steve Cooley. You can write us, info at NoCompromiseRadio .com. We don't ask that you send us money, we just ask that if you like the show, tell your friends.
Please. Maybe they'll send money. Yeah, there you go.