July 15, 2024 Show with Jared K Henry on “We Cannot Remain Silent: One Nazarene Pastor Calls Upon Leaders of the Nazarene Theological Seminary to Repent of their Pro-LGBTQ+ Stance

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 15th day of July, 2024.

This is a historic day, as today, just moments before we went live, Donald Trump announced who is going to be his vice presidential running mate in the 2024 election for the presidency of the United States, and that is J .D. Vance, and it will be interesting to see how things develop in the future.

Also, this is the first live broadcast since the failed assassination attempt against Donald Trump, which took place on Saturday during a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, not very far from where I am right now.

And we thank the Lord that this was a failed assassination attempt, but tragically and horrifically, a very brave, courageous young man, husband and father, was murdered while he was covering his wife and daughter, protecting them from the gunfire, and that ended his life, and that hero is Corey Comperatore.

And we ask of you to pray for the Comperatore family, especially as they are in the midst of very deep grieving and mourning over the loss of such a very special husband and father, and I'm sure that we will begin to learn more and more about this hero who lost his life in such a senseless and tragic and horrific way.

So please keep praying for the Comperatore family, and I hope that the story of this hero does not get lost in all of the excitement and buzz over the Republican Party National Convention and all that will be taking place during this presidential race in the future.

We have to keep the memory of Corey Comperatore alive. Well, today we have a first-time guest. There is something that occurred not long ago. Well, at least it became news to me very recently. It may not have been news to others in the Church of the Nazarene denomination, but I must confess that I have been out of the loop when it comes to the denomination known as the Church of the Nazarene.

I had always known that it was a Wesleyan Arminian denomination, unlike myself, who is a thoroughgoing Five-Point Calvinist and Reformed Baptist, but I had always thought that this denomination was a very strong denomination, adhering to biblical inerrancy, conservative in its views of biblical morality and so on, evangelical.

So it became a shock to me that the faculty at the Nazarene Theological Seminary had become pro-LGBTQ+. I'm not stating with certainty that every member of that faculty is leaning that way in that apostate, anti-biblical, anti-Christian direction, but we'll find out more about that.

Today we have as our guest for the very first time Jared K. Henry, lead pastor at Mackey Church of the Nazarene in Oakland City, Indiana, and he is also the president at the Holiness Partnership, and we'll find out more about that, and we are going to be discussing—we cannot remain silent—one Nazarene pastor calls upon leaders of the Nazarene Theological Seminary to repent of their pro-LGBTQ-plus stance.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trump and Zion Radio, Pastor Jared K. Henry.

Thank you so much for having me, brother.

It's a joy to have you on, and please let our listeners know something about Mackey Church of the Nazarene in Oakland City, Indiana.

Mackey Church is over 100 years old. They started in 1919 from an evangelist who set up a tent in the area and preached, and I think the second year he was there, there was a group of people who said, we want to start a church, and that's how it began.

Over 100 years ago, we're going to celebrate our 105th anniversary actually this fall of 2024, so it's been around for a while, and we're actually in Mackey. The address you have probably is Oakland City, but we're actually in a little small place called Mackey, and the population of Mackey is about 135 people.

However, we have over 400 people who are a part of our church. We're a multi-site church now, so our main campus is in Mackey, and then on the other side of the county, we also have a campus in Owensville, Indiana, and then recently, we've united with a campus that's outside of Orlando that is led by campus pastor Alex Hilaire, so we're into some neat things and trying to be salt and light.

With the good news, the gospel message to the world.

And I'm assuming I was correct that as far as a theological identity, you would be a Wesleyan-Arminian congregation and denomination?

Yeah, Wesleyan-Arminian, so we are part of the Church of the Nazarenes, kind of a part of the holiness movement of the mid-late 1800s with really a desire to see people born again, but then also to go on into living a holy life, that being a Christian is more than just entitled.

There's actually a radical transformation that takes place, not just behavior modification, but we believe God can cleanse and change your heart as well and make you holy through and through.

Yes, there is one thing that during the tension that exists between Calvinists such as myself and Wesleyan-Arminians such as you, very often what is lost is the strong, very strong agreement that both camps have in their opposition to what has become known as easy believism and cheap grace, this very dangerous teaching that somebody could have absolute and complete confidence that they will enter heaven one day just because at one time in their past they raised their hand at a revival meeting or a church service or went forward at that meeting and recited a prayer and then went home to live exactly as they did before that event and committed to serving the devil their whole lives, the world of flesh and the devil, and that person is told that they are to have complete and utter confidence that they are saved and that they are born again and that they are going to heaven and that nobody should tell them otherwise, and both thoroughgoing five-point Calvinists and Wesleyan-Arminians do agree on that, that that is a very dangerous and false teaching and doesn't even have a long.

History in the church either. Yeah, I think I'm not, I know this much about John Calvin, he was pretty serious about living a life differently because Jesus is Lord and through the power of God in your life, so yeah, I would agree.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer talked about that in his book, he talks a lot about cheap grace in the book Cost of Discipleship. I think he coined.

The phrase, actually. Yeah, it was good. Well, if anybody wants more information about the Mackey Church of the Nazarene, you can go to mackeynaz .org, M-A-C-K-E-Y-N-A-Z .org, and now let's hear a little something about the Holiness Partnership.

Yeah, so the Holiness Partnership has been around just not even for five years, just maybe three or four years now. It's primarily Nazarene pastors who are looking around and watching the influence of culture and other things, even on the church.

We believe that the church should be salt and light to the world, and that means that the people who've been born again, God's people, should impact the world in positive ways, rather than the world impacting the church and pushing the church to accept worldly morals or ethics.

And so as we looked at all of the things that are going on in the life of the Church of the Nazarene, yes, but the broader holiness movement and then the broader evangelicalism, there's a lot of confusion, and it's because the people are raised in this culture that is antithetical to biblical truth, Christian morality, holy living, all of those kinds of things, and what's the answer?

What's the response? So there's a lot of people out there who are saying, this is the problem, this is the problem, but it's easy to be a critic. It's easy to diagnose a problem, but it's a lot more difficult to find the solution, and so we just met, had time of prayer, really sought the Lord, and determined that we felt like part of the problem is that this message that God calls us to be holy as He is holy, and whatever God calls you to do, He will empower you to do.

It's not a carrot on a stick. It can be a reality through the power of the Holy Spirit that you can experience the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit in your life and walk in that, and if believers continue to pursue that calling of God, that really will be the answer.

We won't have the problems of people adopting cultural narratives if the Spirit has made their heart pure and they've been given the mind of Christ, for example, and so we want to reclaim biblical holiness and resource the church to be faithful and fruitful.

So there's some people who are faithful to the truth, but they're not faithful to the Great Commission, and I think you can be faithful to biblical truth and be fruitful in that faithful position. You don't have to choose to be faithful or fruitful, but you could be both, and so that's kind of where we're coming from, and we want to resource the church.

We have gatherings annually. We're looking at some other ways that we can really be a blessing to local churches and ministries, laypeople and clergy alike.

And if anybody wants more details on the Holiness Partnership, go to theholinesspartnership .com, theholinesspartnership .com, theholinesspartnership .com. I think I flubbed there. Yeah, that's all right.

And just another clarification, the holiness movement does seem to have different branches, especially that began to be more noticeable and prominent in the early 20th century, and that would be the holiness movement that would be from a more cessationist wing that does not believe that the sign gifts of speaking in tongues and healing and things like that—although every Christian, I'm sure, believes that God heals today—but as far as the gift to a human being of healing, there is the branch that believes, just like many, if not most, Calvinists, that those gifts ceased with the apostles, and then there's the other branch that are typically aligned with the old-school Pentecostals, not necessarily the broader charismatic movement, but the old-school Pentecostals who claim to be holiness churches.

Now, where would the folks in your holiness partnership align themselves? Perhaps it's both, I don't know.

Yeah, there may be some of both who would kind of say, yeah, we like the holiness partnership, so I could speak for myself on this, and I would say that I would not consider myself a cessationist, but I would consider that I don't agree with Pentecostal definitions of gifts, and what I mean by that is when I see the gift of tongues in the New Testament, I don't see a people standing and speaking erratically, verbalizing things that are nonsensical to the listener, except for one person who will get up and clarify.

In other words, let me say it this way. I see the gift of tongues as something that eliminates linguistical barriers to the gospel being proclaimed. It does not create barriers, and so I would disagree with Pentecostals simply on the definition of the gift of tongues.

I think that gift would be given in a context that would be maybe multi-linguistic and necessary to overcome language barriers. It wouldn't be a gift given in a context where everyone speaks English anyway.

Why would God give a gift that isn't necessary? All the gifts ultimately are for the glorification of Christ, and so if it causes confusion, it's not helpful. So I don't know where that puts me exactly.

I do believe that there are places and times where, even post the book of Acts, where that gift would be appropriate and that gift would be given like the gift of tongues, but to overcome language.

Barrier, not to create it. Is that fair? Does that make sense? Yes, I'm assuming. What you mean is there are a number of theologically reformed Christians who also take the position that they believe that most of what is identified today as signed gifts are not biblical and therefore not real.

Not that the people practicing them are necessarily faking intentionally, but they have been deceived somehow to think what they are doing is a Holy Spirit gift. But you don't want to go as far as calling yourself an absolute cessationist because you don't want to, as many say, put God in a box where he may do something in regard to those supernatural gifts, and you don't want to just rule that out completely.

Well, that and also I don't read in the New Testament any kind of expiration date. I think that's almost, it feels imposed upon the book of Acts or the New Testament that those gifts would cease necessarily.

And here's the other thing. Some of those gifts, we tend to make, not all of us, but there are some people who tend to so emphasize those gifts, they forget about the giver. And I want my focus to always remain on the giver.

So like you had mentioned, I believe in healing and I believe that there are some people who may very well be able to pray for those who are sick and they have a gift in that kind of a way. I don't have a problem with that at all.

I have a problem when they try to monetize that, or I have a problem when they are, when that becomes a show or that becomes the focus. But like we pray in our church with somebody sick, if somebody's going into surgery, whatever, we pray for them, we anoint them with oil and we trust that God hears our prayers on those.

So that's not always maybe necessarily the gift of healing. So I do believe in gifts, I just don't make that, that's not the focus of our ministry. And I also reject those who.

I think misdefine them, as you mentioned. Yes, and I agree with having the elders called upon to lay hands on a sick member and anoint them with oil and pray over them. In fact, when my mother was dying in the 1995 of pancreatic cancer and she was visiting Sloan Kettering for a checkup, I asked a dear friend of mine who is now in eternity with my mother and infinitely more important than that with Christ, Pete Padro.

He was a pastor at the time of Church of the Good Neighbor, the oldest Spanish-speaking Protestant church in New York, which had bilingual services. But I took, actually Pete came to my brother Bob's apartment where he was living at the time in Manhattan, and he prayed over my mom and anointed her with oil.

And the Lord did not choose in His infinite wisdom to heal my mother physically at that time, but I know with certainty that she is completely healed now because she is in glory with Christ. So that was my hope, but God's ways are not our ways.

But we have to go to our first commercial break. And if anybody has a question of your own, submit it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and country of residence if you live outside of the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are a member of a church that is promoting homosexuality, and you are very opposed to this, and you're not ready at this point right now to make your identity known. I can understand something like that.

Maybe you're even struggling with the sin of homosexuality, or maybe you are just a totally pro-homosexual person. Maybe you are involved in that activity, and you're proud of it, and you adamantly, vehemently, radically disagree with what we're saying, but you don't want to reveal your identity.

Things like that, we would understand that you'd want to remain anonymous, but if you're just asking a general question, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Please don't.

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So go to royaldiadem .com today and mention Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. We're now back and we're having a fascinating discussion with my first-time guest pastor of Mackie Church of the Nazarene in Mackie, Indiana.

And his name is Pastor Jarrett K. Henry. And we are discussing, we cannot remain silent, one Nazarene pastor calls upon the leaders of the Nazarene Theological Seminary to repent of their pro-LGBTQ stance.

And if you have a question, send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com, give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. But as I informed you before the program started, we have a tradition here on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

Whenever we have a first-time guest, we have that guest before we get into the thick of things with the main theme that we have publicized as our primary topic. Before that, we have our first-time guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include a religious atmosphere in which they were raised, if any, and what kind of providential circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them.

So I'd love to hear your story.

Yeah, so I was raised in a Christian home. My dad was actually agnostic when he became a Christian, and then married my mom. She was serving the Lord from a young age. And so I was born into this Christian home and raised.

My dad felt a call to ministry, so he was pursuing a call to pastoral ministry. And while he was in seminary, we attended a Nazarene church in Lexington, Kentucky. And during a fall revival at that church, I don't remember who the special speaker was, the evangelist, but I do remember I'd asked my mom if I could take a book of mazes, like you work a maze, you know, as a kid.

And she had told me I was eight years old. She said, I think you're old enough, you need to pay attention to what's being said. And so being the obedient child that I was, I just put the book of mazes under my shirt and took it to church with me anyway.

And when I got to church, I sat down at the far end of the pew away from my parents and got that book out and put it down on the pew beside me. So hopefully they couldn't see it. And I didn't pay attention to the singing, to the prayer, to the preaching.

I wasn't really paying attention. But as I stood at the end of the service, I felt the Holy Spirit convict me of my sins. And I knew that I was not in right standing with God. I was eight years old and stepped out from that pew and went down to the altar.

People prayed with me and I made Jesus the Lord of my life. And God just transformed. It was a pivotal point in my life. Everything was different from that point forward. So when I was born again, so from an early age, I began to walk with God at eight years of age.

And then when I was when I graduated from high school, I'd kind of been I didn't tell God no, but I hadn't really told him yes. I felt he had a sense that his spirit was calling me to be a pastor as well.

And I think that my aversion to that was because my own father had been a pastor. And for whatever reason, I felt I felt like, you know, I don't want to do that. I want to go make money. I even told God one time, look, I've got a better deal for you.

I will pay double tithe and do whatever you want me to do. If I'm if I can go and be a doctor, a medical doctor, which there's no problem with being a medical doctor unless God's called you to pastoral ministry.

And so the summer after my senior year of high school, when I after I graduated from high school, I accepted that call. I just fully committed to the Lord at that point in his call in my life and and then pursued that call.

And I found, you know, there's a time where the enemy can try to convince you that serving Jesus is painful and terrible and all of these kinds of things. And there will be cost to following Jesus, no doubt.

But there's a joy in doing exactly what God's called you to do. And I have found that joy in serving the one whom I love. Amen.

One thing I forgot to ask you, but I was almost certain and I am almost certain that the Church of the Nazarene is a credo Baptist denomination in that you only baptize believers. Is that the case or am I wrong on that?

Um, you know, there there are there is provision in our articles of faith for young children to be baptized. So when when you say young children, that that can be interpreted.

In many different ways. So there must be. Must they be of an age where they.

Can demonstrate faith and repentance? Well, I believe so. I believe that you need to be born again, believe her baptism. However, there are some who have baptized even infants. Oh, really? And yeah, yeah, there are.

It doesn't happen often, but it's kind of become in some circles a more popular thing. But I've never baptized an infant. I don't know many pastors who have. I do know a few. And it's it's kind of from our heritage that goes back through the Methodist Church to the Anglican Church.

And I think it's it's kind of that it's a holdover of that heritage. Yeah. Where are you an alumni of the Nazarene Theological Seminary? No, I attended I went I started college at Asbury College and then transferred to Triveca Nazarene University in Nashville, Tennessee.

And then I also have attended Asbury Theological Seminary, but I've not attended Nazarene Theological Seminary. And is Asbury, that's a Pentecostal college, is it not? No, Asbury is actually it's non-denominational, but its roots are in Methodism.

Okay. So yeah, so it's a Wesleyan Arminian Seminary as well. Okay. So when did you.

Begin to discover when alarm bells started going off that there was something rotten in the state of Denmark? And I'm talking about Nazarene Theological Seminary, where you noticed that there was an unbiblical attitude and softness towards or affirmation of what has become known as the LGBTQ community.

I reject calling them a community. It is a damnable and unnatural sin, a sin that people can be given the gift of repentance from and who have repented from that. And as the scriptures are even clear, some of you once were these things.

And I've even interviewed a number of people on this program that fit somewhere in the so-called LGBTQ acronym or acrostic. In fact, one of the most notable is Rosaria Butterfield, who was an outspoken lesbian and Marxist and tenured professor at Syracuse University and was saved by the mercy of Christ and is now and has been for quite some time married to a brother in Christ who is a pastor in the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America in North Carolina.

I had the privilege of even having breakfast in their home and then joining them for worship in the church where Kent Butterfield pastors, Rosaria's husband. And I've interviewed a number of other people.

For instance, just recently I interviewed a brother in Christ named William Allen. That is his alias because he didn't want to unnecessarily bring any kind of negative things upon his family, friends, and loved ones by revealing his full true name.

But he actually was somebody who was deceived by Satan to get so-called transgendered surgery. He had the full-blown surgery and so-called became a woman. Of course, we know that that is not the case.

And William Allen, the man of whom I am speaking about, he knows now that that did not happen. He was never a woman. And he has now had the reverse surgery done and is a member in good standing at a Bible-believing church and so on.

But I've had quite a number of interviews on this subject, either with people, and Patty Height is another one that pops into my head. Patty Height, who is very popular amongst the Calvary Chapel folks.

That's where she is a member in Old Bridge, New Jersey. Wonderful sister in Christ, who lived the life of a lesbian before getting rescued by Christ and also had gender confusion on top of that. But when did you notice that something was amiss there at.

The Nazarene Theological Seminary? Well, I can't remember a specific time. I, as a church pastor, I would hear things from now and then. And, you know, there's always a lot of, you know, maybe gossip or whatever you want to call it that goes around.

And most of the time, it's not worth pursuing. Somebody's aggravated about something and it has no biblical basis for concern other than somebody's preference or something. But there were things that were said, I guess, online.

A lot of social media stuff is really created. There's a lot of misinformation, but there's also a lot more transparency because things are out there on the Internet and whatnot. And so probably that's how things began to kind of come to my attention.

And as those things happened, there was a growing concern on my part that, you know, is this legitimate? Are leaders unaware of some of these things? Is this an oversight? I guess you want to believe the best about people, especially leaders of institutions that are a part of your denomination.