SBC Update: Clint Pressley New SBC President, ERLC Motion Fails, Law Amendment Fails

All right, we're live now on the conversations that matter podcast. I'm your host John Harris. It is a wonderful summer day. And I'm assuming it's a wonderful summer day in Tennessee. I'm in New York right now, but I have two guests with me from Tennessee.

I'm not talking about the Southern Baptist Convention guys. I'm talking about the weather. I hope that's true. You at least have that right?

Sure. Yeah, sure. Okay.

Trying to start on a positive note. You're not helping me. I know it is a discouraging day and I want to get both of you to kind of give your input on this. We have Jeff Wright who is the pastor at Midway Baptist Church?

He was just at the Southern Baptist Convention over the last three days. We have David Morrill who? Writes for protest TIA and you can check out protest TIA comm if you want more info. Well, thanks guys.

I know your time is valuable. I appreciate you joining me and we being willing to discuss this. I thought maybe what we would do is play some of the clips and Then have you guys explain what happened today?

Because I know there's a lot of confusion out there with what did and didn't happen. I was even confused about some things. I thought at first that the law amendment had passed when I saw the results and then I didn't realize it took two-thirds so Let's start here with you.

David. You made a motion from the floor and I'll let you explain. Or you wanted I don't even know if that's the right word you you wanted to correct. Or edit a motion that you had made. So here's what you said.

I wanted to speak against my previous motion being ruled out of order on the basis that it was Getting funds from the cooperative program because it's my understanding.

So there's not a motion on the floor. So you can't really speak against something if what you're trying to do is raise a point of order. Or if what you're trying to do, I'm sorry is to appeal the decision of the chair.

Yes, you may you can do that. Okay, is that what you'd like to do?

Well, I'm just trying to figure out why.

Yes, that's what I'm trying to do. Okay, very good. All right. So state your appeal and what you're what you're gonna need to do. Here in stating your appeal is state why? My ruling that it was out of order is wrong.

Okay?

Yeah, I suppose I would say it's out of order because the original commissioning of the sex abuse task force in 2021 allocated cooperative program funds. For that task force. So I'm not sure why my task force seeking financial accountability cannot also allocate cooperative program funds.

Okay, it seems like it's not a not an even standard at this point. Stay at ease for just a second if you will.

Let's give a head a little bit. Let's see here. Okay, so I'm not gonna play the rest of it just because I think that's the gist of it. Anyway, long story short the vote happened and you lost that vote.

What were you trying to do there David?

Well, so that the day before yesterday I had had presented a motion basically to to commission a task force very similar to the sex abuse task force that they commissioned in 2021 but to Investigate how over the last few years all that process went down.

Because I mean and and I know both of you have done research and investigation into this and we've chronicled it over the last few years and and Seen that a lot of the narrative behind why all this started as far as this.

Yeah, what I what I like to call the SBC's sex abuse adventure at this point. How well it started how it went how the financial accountability is it was sort of lost. Justice was lost. So I wanted to commission a task force to investigate that and also to investigate Rachel Dunn Hollander's involvement in all of it because I think that she was a big part of why there was a lot of guilt and pressure and confusion among Forwarded that motion to the executive committee yesterday and then apparently Bart Barber decided it was out of order because I had mentioned at the end of the resolution that CP allocation would would basically fund this task force and I copied and pasted that language directly from the 2021 motion that Grant Gaines offered to start us on this whole sex abuse task force adventure thinking.

Okay, I'll you know, I'll do the same thing. Yeah, if it works for him, it should work for me and.

Apparently Bart thought otherwise. It Jeff. Is that because I kept seeing this throughout the convention as I watched it was Bart a bad parliamentarian.

Bart's not a bad parliamentarian. He's a biased parliamentarian. He knows the rules he knows the language and You know, I don't want it. I don't feel a burden to be nice to Bart. Bart does a fairly good job running the meeting.

But he clearly runs it with a bit and David's bent cuts against popular fashions. And so it's out of order despite what language you may, you know. Use that's been successful in the past.

Okay, so we have a situation where there's different weights and measures being applied and what worked for. Someone on the left is not working for you. And and that's sad because that would have been a really good thing.

And I think just to set the tone for everyone I know I said it's a nice day and I tried to be nice and everything. But there's you're gonna go through a series of defeats for conservatives. That's really there's really no other way to put it.

This was Not good for conservatives this year. In fact worse than I even thought it would go and I thought it wasn't gonna go too. Well, so we're gonna go through it and then at the end I'll ask you guys if David you're still with us because I know you got to catch a flight just you know.

What do you think should be the response like going forward so you can think about that's we're going. All right. Next. Let's see. I don't want to listen to Bart anymore. Let's let's talk about this. This is Albert Moller and he is Responding.

What was he before I play the clip? What was he responding to exactly? It was there is something against him and a few other people about sexual abuse, right?

Yeah, somebody made a motion. Someone had made a motion the prior day to censure Bart Barber Al Moller and I believe life way maybe the lifeway president to the organization or something. Because of their support for the amicus brief that that the SPC signed on to with relation to the and Jeff correct me if I'm wrong about this, you might know a little closer than me, but to the.

The SPC had signed on basically to an amicus brief indicating their Disagreement with extending the statute of limitations for second like third party third parties to sex abuse lawsuits and. So the SPC I would have argued was being fine fiscally responsible to do that.

I thought it was the right decision and I thought Bart supporting it was actually the right decision. But of course he caved as soon as public pressure changed he caved and apologized for it and all of this.

So that so. Yeah, so many somebody wanted another pound of flesh from these guys over it. All right.

Well, if I can jump in John, so it was kind of an interesting example of how the Parliamentary bias works in SPC and that you have operatives involved. So the original censure which is part of a very unique clause in the SPC bylaws.

You won't find it in any other entities. Organizing documents the original censure was aimed at Bart Al and Mandrell. Who's the head of Lifeway? It was brought out of committee. Stunningly because for years and years attending this they will not bring anything out that names specific names.

They brought this out and it you know, it immediately lifts your eyebrow. What's going on here? Well, as soon as we got in the room today, there was an immediate move to exclude Bart Barber and why that matters is.

He did what David said he caved and he did what the fashions of the moment want. So really what this was to do was to isolate Al Mohler. To put him through a public struggle session. Al cares very much about his legacy.

About how he's perceived in the annals of Southern Baptist history and this was an attempt to penalize him for daring to break with the the fashionable winds of the abuse witch hunt and Subject him to public shame.

And so it went on and then Al got up to say what David said. Basically this was in the best.

Interest of Southern Baptists. Well, let me play that for everyone and Jeff. I don't know. You might want to just check your connection there. I'm not sure what's going on with your mic. Here's Al Mohler on the floor.

Those in favor have it.

Here and brothers and sisters I hesitate to think what the Southern Baptist Convention is going to look like. If this is what we're going to do meeting by meeting. I am here with Keith Daniel who is the chairman of the Board of Trustees and Also with Josh Powell immediate past chairman of the Board of Trustees.

The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary has nothing to hide and I'm trying to think about how we can serve Southern Baptists best in this very moment. I think one thing you need to know is that presidents of your institutions are not the lawyers for your Institutions and that's for good reason.

We have lawyers as general counsel hired by the Board of Trustees. They make legal decisions. The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and serving Southern Baptists has Avoided scandal by following the advice of auditors accountants and attorneys and not violating that advice.

We have the responsibility to act righteously and to act in ways that are consistent with the Southern Baptist Convention. We to stand for the cause of defending the defenseless and we believe the best way to do that is through the proper Application of the rule of law.

Our Board of Trustees Hires the attorneys the attorneys on behalf of the institution Plot and they undertake legal strategy. They represent us. You do not want the presidents of your institutions Flouting the advice of the general counsel that your boards of trustees hire.

That's what you want us to do. Otherwise Chaos will ensue. We have nothing to hide. We have acted righteously in this situation in the case at hand. Here the Supreme Court of the Commonwealth of Kentucky said that the issue had not only been wrongly decided but was Unconstitutional.

We believe that justice and righteousness will come by the proper Application of the rule of law and so I just want to tell you that I'm pleased to answer as President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary to board chairman behind me.

This is our plea. Hold your institutions Accountable, but to following the very rules we are given.

Thank you, mister. Okay, so two questions David. First of all. Did the Southern Baptist Convention follow Al Mohler's advice there or did they censure him. And then secondly? He's referring to a case.

I think I covered it in Kentucky. I can't remember all the specifics of it, but that must be the amicus brief that we're talking about here. Yeah, they.

They they didn't censure him but not because. Not because they voted against a censure but because they ruled the motion to censure out of order. So originally the Bart or whoever had ruled that the motion was in order and it was going to go to the floor for a debate and discussion, but then they allowed the messengers to Overrule that and the messengers overruled the motion being in order which meant the motion was out of order which meant it never came to a censure.

Okay, is that a little bit of a victory. I suppose. Yeah, I thought so I.

Thought so, but but Bart came out smelling like a rose. To be honest because because Bart was able to both. Get credit for allowing a motion to censure him. To get to the floor to be debated by the messengers and then have the messengers say no, that's okay Bart.

You know you we respect that we and we didn't have to vote on whether to censure him or not. Now I don't know about Jeff, but I disagreed with the entire thing. I didn't think Bart should have been censured at all.

I think he actually did the right thing. I think apologizing for it was the wrong thing. I think you know caving to the to the pressure of the zeitgeist was the wrong thing. And that. Following the law and doing what he was supposed to do in protecting the Southern Baptist Conventions, you know financial You know assets and the giving of the churches was the right thing to do.

Yeah, that's my exact same read. Yeah, that's perfectly right and what Al said even in that clip. I know we've all got gripes with Al but the chaos that he talked about is exactly what this investigation has produced.

He's right and you can see the the double standard there, right? So If you don't call the cops on a sex abuse claim. You're you know, you're a violent abuse cover-up, right, but if you do things right legally and they still don't like you.

Well, that was the wrong move. How dare you follow the law, right? We have a higher standard to me. It's an impossible burden of expectation. But that's what the winds of the fashions of the SPC are currently insisting on.

Well, and that's what.

Go ahead. I was gonna say that's what the the lifeway president. He he actually argued that the reason that the messenger should reject the censure is because The person that brought the motion never went to him privately.

He actually pulled the Matthew 18 card.

Yes, I Didn't play it, but we can't play everything. I just I think it's rich that Al Mueller's the one that's going through this given that he's the one who Validated the Houston Chronicle story when it first came out.

He's the one that Legitimized Jennifer Lyle's story said it was abuse. David Sills is an abuser. These are the early and the first Penetrations of me too into the Southern Baptist Convention. Molar was leading the charge and now he's upset about where this went.

And I just find that rich. So, all right, let's go to the next clip. See what we got here. I think this might be oh no, this is an important one. Okay, this is Tom Askew Talking about the ERLC and disbanding it which was a great motion to bring up.

Let's just disband the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. I'm a school. Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida. By law 25 is called in part abolishing entities and instructs messengers how to do this by stating quote.

No entities shall be discontinued without a majority vote at two successive annual sessions in of the convention. Obviously this bylaw anticipates that there may be times when the SPC entities will need to be discontinued.

Such a time has come for the last eight years. The ERLC has become increasingly distant from the values and concerns of the churches that finance it. I along with countless other pastors have voiced our concerns to executive trustees and trustees Over positions actions and inactions of the ERLC.

On August 1 2018 I was appalled when the ERLC produced and released a professional video Arguing that animal rights is a pro-life issue. Though the video was finally taken down. I'm left to wonder why was Cooperative Program money ever used to produce such a video.

Many of us have pled with the ERLC to work for legislation that grants pre-born children Equal protection under the law, but they refuse to do so. In 2021 messengers voted a resolution that says quote.

As Southern Baptists we will engage with God's help in establishing equal justice and protection for the pre-born. According to the authority of God's Word as well as local and federal laws. Yet one year later the president of the ERLC Issued an open letter to state lawmakers in which he and others stated that they represent quote Tens of millions of pro-life men women and children across the country and they went on to say let us be clear.

We state unequivocally that we do not support any measures seeking to criminalize or punish women. And we stand firmly opposed to include such penalties in Legislation. That letter killed the bill in Louisiana.

Which would have been the first law in the United States to completely outlaw abortion. It's time for us to call the ERLC to become accountable to the churches who pay for it. By law 25 wisely does not allow for the discontinuation of any entity with just one vote.

It takes two positive votes for two successive years. Adopting this motion today will not eliminate the ERLC today. But it will send a clear message that the churches of the SPC are deeply concerned about their mission drift.

We're often told by our leaders that the local church is the headquarters of the SPC. It's time that the ERLC hears from headquarters. A positive vote will give them one full year to make a course correction.

Please support this vote.

Okay, no, that was long. We're gonna play though a little bit of Brent Leatherwood's response and so we can contrast. This is the response from the ERLC.

Can you please state your name your church and your point of order.

Thank You. Mr. President. My name is Brent Leatherwood. I am a messenger from Brentwood Baptist Church in Brentwood, Tennessee. And I am a deacon of that church and that means I am called to serve. Dr. Leatherwood also.

You're gonna be able to continue to speak. But let me explain why. Because everybody's watched me recognize you and ask what your point of order is. Actually, the urgent request button was pushed because under article 12 He has a privileged place to be able to reply and respond to this motion.

I'm sorry that I interrupted you to do that, but I just wanted to help everybody understand. Thank you, Mr. President.

So as I was saying I View myself as a servant and I bring that servant heart To the other role that I occupy which is president of your ethics and religious Liberty Commission. And we read in Proverbs that a gentle answer turns away wrath.

That is certainly my prayer. For what? I'm about to respond to. I hope that my response comports to that the history of this 100 year old Commission has always found it at the leading edge of issues sometimes speaking for our churches sometimes speaking with our churches.

Examples such as civil rights the sanctity of life the protection of conscience. Responding to abuse in the church. Now our brother likes to bring up an issue from a different era. Well before I was president of this organization back in 2018.

Look, that's from a different time. That video was taken down nearly immediately because the organization realized it had made a mistake. And so none of us is perfect, but we did take that down and we accepted responsibility for it.

But in all that this organization strives to do it strives to be faithful to scripture. Faithful to what the Lord calls us to do faithful to serve our churches. And we are in a great hour of need in our culture and in our convention Division.

And anger are plentiful. Voices are wanting to tear down with false Assertions and half-truths that are everywhere to eliminate an entity whose voice is needed Now as much as ever. Would be the wrong move.

No, this Commission speaks truth. With a capital T and That and the grace that it also speaks with. Is exactly what is needed now. I would ask this body to reject this motion.

Okay, I can't take anymore. I got to stop it. All right, I'm gonna let Jeff and then we'll go to David. Responds to that because I know that the vote came and Tom Askell did not. He was not able to get his motion passed.

Yeah, so Brent's just a liar. He just lies whenever he opens his mouth. So There were two items that Tom cited one was that stupid, you know animals pro-life video. The other was the more infinitely more atrocious Killing of the abortion bill.

Brent was on staff at the ERLC at the time that the ERLC produced that video. That video came down and was left up for a long time, but it did come down when people online Held them accountable. And so there was no immediate takedown.

They had to wait for a roar to come from social media to take that down. Brent had his hands in that he you know, he's Russell Moore runs the ERLC through through Leatherwood by wire anytime he wants to there, you know their hand in glove and he never touched the Atrocious assault on human life that he was the author of as the head of the The ERLC and then you know what we didn't get to see there's Tom did respond.

Brent went on to impugn Tom's Character attribute political motivations to him, you know, we hear so much about the hateful rhetoric that comes from online voices when our entity has get any opportunity to speak where they can't be spoken back to.

They're the most vicious people in the world and thankfully Tom had a chance to highlight that for the messengers and say hey. Look what he's doing here. I've been in the room now for a lot of moves to do something about ending the ERLC and so it failed again but it fails by a smaller margin every time and You know, I don't know what kind of snowball affect the the convention will have this year more more conservative churches leave every year.

But if enough hang around Brent's gonna report he's selling it's just a matter of time. Yeah, David.

Yeah, it's I. It's it's true. Although we can't we can't ever see it when it happens. The word gets out the we can't forget that the messengers that are there. And this is I would argue the further that it gets away from the south.

The more than this happens, but the messengers that are there tilts towards those who are institutionally invested their lifeway. Employees their NAM employees. They're the people that have a financial very personal and financial stake in the size and influence and resources of the convention and the word gets around.

About who the troublemakers are so they know founders ministry and Tom Askell and they know Instinctively if he's standing up to do something it's probably something they're supposed to oppose and. Or if Jeff stands up there or now if I stand up there.

They're you know we're all put in that same sort of bucket of conservative deplorables with a lot of the messengers and that's not to say that there. Aren't conservatives on the floor and people that I mean we can see.

But by still the majority that wanted to ratify the law amendment, even though it didn't get quite there I guess we'll talk about that a bit but. We can see there are conservatives on the floor, but there's also just a big there's so much institutional weight in not changing anything and The more that we debate and the more that we argue and the more contentious stuff gets people have a pretty especially regular folks.

They have a really limited Appetite for that and the platform knows it they know if they if they muck things up and they can get it to be a lot of hemming and hawing and Divisiveness and that it always favors the status quo.

I don't favor is not changing something. Gotcha.

Jeff you had something more. Yeah, just real quick.

I'm assuming your audience is pretty well informed on this John. But what happens with the annual meeting. Is that for a lot of the attendees? This is a paid vacation by their churches. And so they have no interest whatsoever in doing what we've actually come to do.

They want to get out of any Business session as quickly as possible and get to a triple-a ballgame or you know, they're the restaurant. They've got reservations at go see sites. I sit behind multiple Men and their wives and listen to multiple wives say oh, why are we doing this?

Why can't we wrap this up? This is exhausting and it ends up just like David said this tremendous inertia against actually doing anything meaningful. I honestly don't know how to fix it because churches just send these people thinking they're here to do something serious.

And that's just not what's happening.

All right. Well on that note, let's go to the next item here on the agenda, so I'm gonna skip past the votes and I Think let's see. Okay, so this I won't play the video for but just another negative thing.

Michael Clary. And Brad Groves, I don't know if either of you want to talk to this but Brad Groves beat Michael Clary. For the SPC first vice president Michael Clary was the conservative as I understand it.

Brad Groves grave. Sorry. It was not and so Not only did the presidency go to someone who is more Will say progressive than we would like but also the vice president is anything to say on this. You've heard it correctly, okay.

Yeah. All right. Let's go to the next item. Then we got our this I got to play the clip. So there's more that could be said than then just one clip. But let me play this kind of representative clip from Dean and Sarah's.

Convention sermon Ron is looking at our phones and we hear this voice behind us at the gate agent coming through and they're saying Step to the left, please. Step to the left, please. Step to the left, please.

And as we're looking at our phones all of us not even thinking about I don't even saw the person. We just went like this. All of us and step to the left of the person went right past us Messengers and guests this morning the world wants us to step to the theological left.

And we must always be cautious Southern Baptist that it will never happen on our watch. It is such a temptation. Perhaps the sin that so easily Entangles us in this era of Southern Baptist history. It's being so concerned about what others think about us especially online a Side street warning to us is not to become enamored.

I would Joe Rigney calls the progressive gaze. With a stigmatic progressive that for some reason we want so badly To see us is either cool or accepting or on the right side of history or not too conservative.

Or definitely not one of those kind of Christians that Twitter and podcast tell us about lingers on our shoulder. And we can so easily just step to the left as we stare at our phones to appease and press and get a thumbs Up just for the moment.

Do they think I'm too conservative? Do they see me as in the middle third way enough? There are other things you may sweat such as making sure you're not seen as a liberal by SBC hobby watchdog Twitter.

The answer to this is not to move to an extra biblical, right? But rather to stay on the faithful road of following Jesus fixing our eyes on him and submitting ourselves under the authority of his word.

It is so easy to get entangled and start running down a side street chasing clout rather than chasing Christ.

My name is spent Shelton. Okay, we'll stop there then and I'll get your reactions. So Jeff you want to go first and then David.

Yeah, I mean, I know Dean. I've known Dean for a long time. Dean that right there was a giant gaslight. Dean is the theological left and he appropriates the language of the people that he thinks are on the right like Joe Rigney to Just advance the killer ism.

He was ostensibly decrying. That's third way ism right there. He's trying to marshal Joe Rigney as an authority on his side. And by the way, Joe Rigney today went out of his way online to make sure that everybody knew Dean was his buddy.

This is the same kind of hijinks and and Dean by preaching that sermon Dean what was being signaled as Dean is in the on-deck box to be the next SBC president. He's a JD Greer kind of clone. Clone of a clone.

He's everything that he's you know. Ostensibly saying he's not right there and what he what he wants to do is trick the messengers and fail. This is the faithful guy walking the road.

Down the middle of ditches when he's the boy saying step left step left step left. As far as specifics go on Dean I remember he was the guy one of the guys who was really covering for Adam Greenway when enemies within the church You know premiered and Adam Greenway attacked enemies within the church.

Dean and Sarah was right there saying how faithful Adam Greenway was. I wonder though and I can't remember because I was surprised when I saw this too. What are some other examples. Because I'm like, I know that guy's more on the left because I know even in years past I know I've tangled with them.

I know others 80 Robles has tangled with them quite a bit on things and. And I was surprised to hear him kind of do what you just said Jeff. So what makes you say he's on the left more? Oh, he's a thoroughgoing company, man.

He'll never take a position that's contrary to the SPC elites. That's one thing. He's been in bed with him since the first time I met him on Russell Moore's ERLC. I mean recently Jared Moore's been laying him out for his position on homosexuality.

You know, it's the classic. Oh, it's not really a sin to want to sodomize someone. It's just if you act on it. You know anytime you scratch Dean blue liberalism rolls out but you know above all he's fundamentally committed to using the Entities of the SPC to climb his career ladder and that's always going to involve him compromising toward the fashions of the world.

David what do you say?

No, I agree with Jeff it's a Lot of these guys they end up what doing what we call being website Orthodox. Where so they like Dean can get up in this sermon and basically for half the sermon Plant the generic seed of we're gonna follow Christ and not follow the world follow Christ all the way.

He's not getting specific yet. He's just getting the framework out there. He's building this empty shell. Of moral imperative for the messengers to say well, of course you all want to follow Christ, right?

You know, you know, you don't want to follow the world. You want to follow Christ, but he hasn't put any meaning into it yet that comes later after the the crowd of you know, the messengers in this case or the Congregation for instance is invested and they say of course we want to follow Christ.

Then he starts to describe what that is. And by the time he's describing what it is They're already invested and this is a typical a typical Bait-and-switch kind of a technique but in Dean's case Jeff's right.

He has been on the record multiple times Jared Moore has approached this and other I think I mean, I'm sure protesting we've talked about it at some point basically supporting Side B SSA, you know LGBTQ You know Capitulated Christianity that kind of a thing.

He's he's he's in there. So it wasn't surprising to me to hear him say things that conservatives would be like, yeah, that's pretty good. But he you know, then he slips that little poison like I don't know what he meant for instance by the the Overreactive right or so.

However, he said it like don't go too far to the right and you're In your attempt not to be left, I'm not sure what he meant by that. Yeah, of course not couldn't be yeah.

All right, let's see what else we got here and What was this? I'm trying to remember what this oh this let's see here. And I for some reason I captured this. I thought it was significant. Oh, this is the law amendment stuff.

All right. So let's just play this real quick. This is the argument first against the law amendment and then for the law amendment. Here it is.

The question before us today is not whether or not we're a complementarian that's clear. The question is not do we believe the Bible? That's also clear. We are complementarian. We believe the scripture.

The question is is this amendment necessary for our convention to respond? When churches in our convention act in a way contrary to our complementarian doctrine. We showed last year we have an effective mechanism.

It allows us to act with convention conviction. Excuse me in unity when it comes to this issue last year We removed two different churches one really big like a mega mega church one normative size this year We removed an institutional legacy church.

Y 'all we have shown that the mechanisms we currently have are sufficient to deal with this question. Listen, the last thing I want to say is I believe that we need to act in unity as a convention the other three amendments That we made we made by raised ballot and it was an overwhelmingly majority referendum on this issue.

So I want to risk something if you will to my fellow brothers and sisters because this has been weighing on me a whole lot. Would you be willing if this goes to a written ballot to see that as our message that we're not unified?

When it comes to this issue if we all raise overwhelming majority, let it be so. But if not, if this goes to a written ballot. Maybe that's our signal that we are not unified as Southern Baptists. And why would we go forward with something that we are not unified in?

I love that we are unified in the Great Commission. We are unified in our biblical convictions. Let us go forward in those and vote down this amendment. Thank you. Mr. President.

Okay, also at microphone 10 a but this time to speak in full in favor of the amendment. Please state your name your church and.

Your argument. Thank You. Mr. President. My name is Mike law and I'm a messenger from Arlington Baptist Church. I rise to support this motion because it is faithful to God's inerrant Word. Southern Baptists love the Bible and long to be faithful to the Bible.

In 1987 there were 18 women serving as pastors in the Southern Baptist churches last year. We learned there were over 1800. This is a problem in 1st Timothy chapter 2 verses 12 to 14. The all-wise God says that a woman ought not teach or exercise authority over a man.

Terms associated with the pastoral office. Our culture may see this prohibition as harsh. But our God is all-wise and he wrote his word for the flourishing of both men and women. Our Baptist faith and message agrees while both men and women are gifted for service in the church.

The office of pastor elder overseer is limited to men as qualified by Scripture. Let's be exceptionally clear. We gladly celebrate the myriads of women who serve the church in many essential ways. We are so grateful for these godly sisters.

This amendment is not about women in ministry. It's just biblically about women in the pastoral office. Last year, we rightly stood on the truth of Scripture and adopted this amendment. Many things have changed since last year, but one thing has not changed.