February 13, 2023 Show with Kevin Hay on “The Necessity of Expository Preaching”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of Founding Father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensirneradio .com. This is

Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 13th day of February, 2023, one day before my 61st birthday.

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I hope that wasn't too crass using my birthday trying to get additional donations for the show, but when you need donations, you'll do whatever you got to do as long as you're not sinning.

Before I start the program, I just have a sad bit of news. I don't know how many of my listeners from Long Island, New York are tuning in today to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, but Long Island, New York lost a hero over the weekend.

He was a dear friend for many years. His name was Bobby Lloyd.

He was one of the pastors at Freedom Chapel, Assembly of God in Amityville, Long Island, New York, which is the town in which

I was born and raised and actually moved back there after having moved away from Amityville for a decade after my marriage and then purchasing my old house in which

I was raised after my parents had passed. Bobby Lloyd was an extraordinary man.

He was not only one of the pastors of Freedom Chapel in Amityville, but he was the founder and president of Long Island Citizens for Community Values, which was an organization that primarily was making sure that no porn shops or strip clubs or anything involving illicit sex was able to open in a residential neighborhood on Long Island.

Whenever he heard about one that was intending to move into the area or perhaps they even did purchase a piece of property in a residential neighborhood,

Bobby Lloyd and his LICV, I'm sorry, LICCV, Long Island Citizens for Community Values, organization was very successful in either preventing those businesses, those types of businesses from opening up in residential neighborhoods or shutting them down and getting them to move elsewhere.

He was a humble brother in Christ. He loved Iron Sharpens Iron radio, even though he knew full well

I did not share his Pentecostal convictions, being a pastor in the assembly of God.

He listened to my show regularly, especially in the early days when I was broadcasting out of WNYG in Babylon, Long Island, because he would call into the program quite frequently with guests for my, or with questions

I should say, for my guests, and that was in the days when we took listener phone calls as opposed to the emails we take from listeners today.

He just kept encouraging me, keep doing what you're doing, brother. Well he recognized, as I said, the differences we had, but he even told me, don't change a thing about what you're doing.

And he actually often agreed with me when I was addressing excessive behavior and false teaching within Pentecostalism and so on.

So he was a very humble brother, recognizing our differences and yet encouraging me very much to keep pressing on with the program.

He and his lovely wife, Diane, who he called Lady Di, actually invited me to be the host of one of the fundraising banquets for LICCV out on Long Island, and I just cannot say enough wonderful things about Bobby Lloyd.

Everybody who knew him will agree with everything that I'm saying today, and I will dearly miss him as everyone who knew him will.

He died of leukemia. I have no idea how old Bobby was.

I think he must have been at least 10 years older than me, so that would make him in his early 70s.

He could have been older. I don't know. He looked younger than that. But he passed after a battle with leukemia, and it is believed that the origins of that disease were from his labors as a volunteer chaplain on Ground Zero after the horrendous attack on the

World Trade Center in 2001 on September 11th, and he had previously survived one of the deadliest forms of cancer that exists, pancreatic cancer, which took my mother home only after six weeks of her diagnosis.

And most people—I think it's in the high 90 percentage range—most people perish from that illness, and Bobby survived it for decades.

He also survived colon cancer and a number of other deadly diseases, but the leukemia finally took his life.

Obviously, it was God's time to take him home. And please pray for the

Lloyd family, and pray for the continuing wonderful work of LICCV, Long Island Citizens for Community Values.

Today, we have on the program a first -time guest. His name is

Kevin Hay, looking forward to interviewing him. He has pastored churches in Ohio, Indiana, and West Virginia, is a

D -Min student of expository preaching at the Master's Seminary, and the editor of the book

Assurance, Our Confidence in Christ by Thomas Goodwin, and a regular contributing writer at Expository, Panthering, and G3 Ministries.

Today, we are addressing the necessity of expository preaching. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio, Kevin Hay.

Thank you, Chris. It's an honor to be on the show. I appreciate that so much. Sorry to hear about your friend, brother, and I do want to wish you an early happy birthday.

Well, I appreciate that very much, Kevin. And before we go into the interview today, the necessity of expository preaching, tell us about your book that you edited,

Assurance, Our Confidence in Christ by Thomas Goodwin. Yeah, absolutely.

So that's a little booklet. It's part of the Classics of Biblical Spirituality series through H &E, and my dear brother and friend

Dustin Binge is the series editor of that series. You can find a number of those that are part of that series on H &E's website and also at Amazon.

But, yeah, I had the opportunity to look at Thomas Goodwin's book,

Christ Set Forth, and really the goal of that series is to keep the voice of these

Puritan writers. You want to preserve the voice that they present in these robust works that they have provided to the body of Christ years ago, and yet at the same time, in some ways, bring it up to speed for the church today.

And so that was a labor of love, and it was a very enriching experience for me to be able to walk through that process, and I'm grateful for the opportunity, and I think the finished product will be a great encouragement to those who pick it up and read through it.

And how do our listeners get a hold of that book? Yeah, so I know

H &E, the website there, they have it on there. You can find it along with the other books that are part of the series, and then it is also on Amazon.

You just search Assurance or Confidence in Christ or My Name, and that should pop up for you.

And I will provide the exact website for H &E. I have interviewed a number of their authors.

It's hesedandemet .com, H -E -S -E -D,

A -N -D -E -M, as in Michael, E -T, dot com. And hopefully

I'll remember to repeat that later. Tell us now about the From Shadows, the

Substance Conference, where you are one of the featured speakers. Yeah, so Jeffrey Wright actually reached out to me several months ago, and we have a mutual friend in ministry, and he was going to be a part of that conference, and so Jeffrey reached out to me to see if I would be interested in coming to preach.

And originally, I know as you talked with Claude not too long ago, he talked about this as well, but there was a different theme that they were going to go with, and so I was originally going to preach on the covenant of redemption from Ephesians 1, and we are now looking at From Shadows to Substance, looking at the types and shadows of the

Old Testament and how they've all been fulfilled in the person of Christ. And so my theme now for the conference

I'm really looking forward to as well is Jesus as the light of the world, and I'll be expositing

John 8 -12 -20, and just looking forward to being a part of that later this week with those faithful brothers and praying that God be glorified and saints be edified in the process.

Amen, that's going to be held February 16 -18, that's this week, and starting on Thursday.

Thursday, February 16 -18 in Tullahoma, Tennessee, at Covenant Reformed Baptist Church where Jeffrey Rice is the pastor.

They have a very large lineup, including my dear friend, Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

And by the way, the connection that James White has with my friend Bobby Lloyd who just went home to eternity with Christ, Bobby Lloyd's church,

Freedom Chapel, was gracious enough a number of years ago to allow me to use their facilities for a debate that I organized featuring

Dr. James R. White and notorious atheist David Silverman, who at one time was the president of Madeline Murray O 'Hare's organization,

American Atheists. And they had a debate on, is the

New Testament evil? And it was a clear, clear, clear victory for James White.

In fact, it was one of only two times I have ever witnessed an opponent of Dr.

White actually say in front of an audience, after he likely realized he was getting his rear end kicked spiritually, that is, he said, can we stop now?

I mean, do we really have to continue this? The only other time that happened was when an imam in New York City of a mosque on a debate on Islam said the same thing.

But James White is joined by another friend of mine, Andrew Rappaport, and the aforementioned

Jeffrey Rice, also the founder of Post -Ten Brace Lock's Bible Rebinding, Paps Addison, who

I've had on the program, Braden Patterson, Claude Ramsey, Michael Schultz, John Crawford, Greg Mooring, and our guest today,

Kevin Hay. And go to the Facebook page of Jeffrey Rice for more details.

He spells his name J -E -F -F -E -R -Y, Rice, just like Rice and Roney. And you will have all the information there.

You can also get it on Eventbrite. And do you have any other links that people can find out more details on how to register for that,

Kevin? I do not. None beyond the ones you just mentioned.

Okay. Well, if anybody has any questions for us, send them to chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Since you are our first -time guest, Kevin, we always conduct a tradition on this program when we have a first -time guest where that guest gives a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include any kind of religious atmosphere the guest may have been raised in and any kind of providential circumstances our sovereign lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them.

So let's hear your story. Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to share my testimony.

So thank you for asking that, brother. You know, I did not grow up in a Christian home.

My parents to this day are not believers. But the

Lord really placed my grandmother in my life for a number of reasons.

But when you talk about his providential plan and the way he sovereignly worked, my grandmother was definitely the human agent that he used to be a gospel seed -planting influence in my life.

I was born and raised in Columbus, Ohio, and my dad for a number of years was building a home in southern

Ohio where my mother grew up very close to where my grandmother lived until she went to be home with the

Lord a couple of years ago. And so for about a decade, my dad would build this home, and we would travel down from Columbus to southern

Ohio, take the two -hour drive every weekend. And while we were there, anytime my grandmother had the opportunity, she would ask my parents if she could take me to church with her.

And so I did that a number of times. I don't know the total number, but it was probably somewhere around 20 to 25 times throughout my childhood.

And so I would go with her occasionally. And it was just this little white church in southern

Ohio. In that area, we call it a holler. And so up a dirt holler was this little white church.

And it wasn't deep theologically. They weren't preaching expositionally, but they did preach the gospel.

And so I remember gospel seeds were planted. I remember hearing about the character of God's goodness and his grace and mercy and about his judgment for those who continued in unrepentant sin.

And so God would use that in my life. I remember probably about the age of 10 years old,

I went up to an altar, which was kind of the normal way they did things, what the altar called, which is typical in many churches even today.

And all I knew about that experience was that that's what it meant to get saved and people cried.

And so I remember trying to muster up some crocodile tears because I wanted to fit into the experience.

But I remember getting up from the altar and nothing had changed, but everyone was patting me on the back and saying, you're saved.

And so then that led into my teenage years. And I would say I was a hedonist, just seeking out, you know, any form of happiness and selfish gratification that I could latch on to.

And it wasn't until the age of 20 years old, and I wasn't in a church service.

I wasn't listening to a gospel presentation. I was just at home as a sophomore in college talking to a friend just about life and the circumstances of life and growing up and things of that nature.

And my friend went on to bed and I was there sitting on the couch, just sitting there thinking to myself about our conversation.

And the Lord sovereignly just began to bring conviction to my heart.

I began thinking about his wrath and his judgment and really reflecting on those seeds that were planted in my heart and mind so many years before.

And I'll tell you, one of the things that I used to do, it's kind of silly as I think about it now, but even at that time, you know, as an adult, right before I would go to sleep, kind of as like a security blanket,

I would pray a prayer that my grandmother taught me that I'm sure many of your listeners will be familiar with.

And that was, as I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die before I wake,

I pray the Lord my soul to take. And I would pray that even as an adult because I thought if I would do that, then it would keep me safe if something were to happen, if I died in my sleep or that sort of thing.

Now, with the exception of using that as some kind of a superstitious spell or mantra that is somehow magically keeping you alive or sending you to heaven, isn't that prayer nonetheless, even in its childlike state, isn't it a fairly good prayer?

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I believe firmly if I was praying that prayer with genuine faith, then, yeah, it would be a very good prayer.

But for me, my intentions, I think, were not— there wasn't heartfelt contrition on my part by any means.

And even that evening prior to that night, it was really just selfishness that was driving my life.

And so, again, as I sat there on the couch just reflecting, it was for the first time in my life that I came to the point of genuine repentance.

And the Lord graciously saved me. And so I went from a guy who just was seeking after every form of selfish gratification that I could to a guy who deeply wanted to know the

God who had saved me. And I knew enough to know that I could find out more about him through his word.

So very quickly, I picked up the Bible, and I wanted to know as much as I could about this God. And I remember reading the

Bible from cover to cover within that first year and just tearing through the pages of Scripture to understand more about him.

And from there, God just rapidly gave me a desire to teach what

I was learning to others. And so my salvation was pretty dramatic in that regard, and those around me, my family members and friends, could attest to the change that God had wrought in my life.

And so I'm very grateful for his salvation and his grace in my life.

Now, how and when did you come to discover and embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace that have been nicknamed

Reform Theology and have been nicknamed Calvinism? Yeah, and I left out there the exact date.

So January 17th of 2005. Not everybody I know can kind of pin it down that way, but that was my salvation date.

And at that time, there was a radio station out of Cedarville University called

CDR Radio. And CDR would play a lot of really solid Bible teachers.

And so when I would be driving in the car, that was really before the days of podcasts and things of that nature.

But I would be listening to CDR, and they would play Grace to You. So I would hear John MacArthur. I didn't understand exactly anything about expositing the scriptures at that time, but I knew as I listened to him teaching the

Bible that it was saturated with the word of God and that when

I heard it, it was good preaching. And I wanted more of it every time I would listen. And so I would hear him preach, and I remember

Alistair Begg was on CDR as well. And so every time I would get in the car,

I would check out the station to see who was on there and what was being taught, who was preaching.

And of course, I was attending a church at that time as well, and I'd kind of gotten plugged in to a church that my uncle was attending.

He had invited me to come and share my testimony with the youth group at the time, and that was a

Nazarene church. And so not knowing much about the differences in doctrine, as I would hear what was being taught from the pulpit week after week, if there was preaching that was presented, and I would compare that to what

I was hearing, it was clear to me that the preaching that I was hearing on CDR was biblical preaching, and yet there was very little scripture being presented from the preacher or the pastor of that church.

And so it was from that that I began to notice the differences. I remember coming across Paul Washer's shocking youth message, and that kind of rocked my world.

And so it was an assortment of those types of experiences that really began to attest with my spirit of what biblical preaching was, and I began to then connect with other faithful expositors from that point forward.

Well, praise God, I'm glad that the Lord has raised up another lover of sovereign grace who can articulately, passionately, and faithfully proclaim those glorious truths wherever the

Lord sends him to open up his word. We're going to our first station break right now, and once again, if anybody has a question for my guest,

Kevin Hay, send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Do us a first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away, we're going to be right back with Kevin Hay, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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We're now back with our guest today, Kevin Hay. We are discussing the necessity of expository preaching.

That's a very weighty word there, the necessity. And if you have a question, our email address is chrisarmson at gmail .com,

chrisarmson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

One thing that I forgot to ask you about, and it's very important since you have been hearing ads on this program every day, promoting the

G3 Conference this September in Atlanta, Georgia, where I will be manning an exhibitor's booth.

Tell us about your affiliation with G3 Ministries. Yeah, absolutely.

So really, that really began from afar as I saw

Josh Bice and some of these other faithful brothers who have been proclaiming the excellencies of Christ and the glory of God through the conferences, and then of course

G3 has grown from that time. And my most recent pastor at First Baptist Church of Canova, that season of ministry had recently ended for me there, but we were a

G3 church, and so that put me in contact with Josh and Scott and Virgil and really gave me the opportunity to begin writing for them.

And so I began just talking with those guys more and just being so encouraged by all that they're doing and the way the board's using

G3. And so that's really how that began, and then my wife and I had the opportunity in 2021 to attend the

G3 Conference, and so just a great time, a great time of encouragement, and I love being a part of that.

And then more recently, I actually was a part of the Cessationist Conference up in Idaho at Jim Ostman's church, and some dear friends of mine who are the makers of the film

Cessationist interviewed me and several other brothers, including Justin Peters, and recently they announced that G3 and Cessationist have teamed up together to put out that movie, and they're going to be doing some really, really great things, including a workbook, and just some great things that are going to help to equip the church in the area of the gifts of the

Spirit and some of the dangers that are associated with that in the church today. Praise God.

In fact, I referred the folks who are creating the

Cessationist video documentary, I referred to them some former

Charismatics and Pentecostals that they should interview for them, and one of them, at least one of them, there might be more, but one of them is definitely featured in the documentary,

John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and John's a dear friend of mine, and not only is he a former

Pentecostal, he is a former Word of Faith Pentecostal, and not only is he a former

Word of Faith Pentecostal, he's a former talk show host in the

Word of Faith television network, TBN, so he had quite a radical transformation in regard to those issues.

And I also want to remind our listeners to please, if you want a 30 % discount off of the

G3 Conference registration fee, use my promo code, and that's

G3ISIR, G3ISIR, and you will get 30 % off the registration fee.

So please do that. That helps Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, too, when you do that. Now, please define for us expository preaching.

Yeah, absolutely. So when we think about expository preaching, I really think we have to start with the nature of Scripture itself first.

Think about Paul's words in Romans 10, 14, 15, and then 17, and he says this, he says,

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?

And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent?

As it is written, how beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news. So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

And so when we think about the nature of Scripture, we see what Scripture testifies about itself.

This is the God -ordained means that the Lord has provided for us to bestow the gift of faith.

He does that by his grace, and he does it through the preaching of the word. 2 Timothy 3, 16, 17, a very familiar passage to many.

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

And so when we think about preaching, what we're doing is proclaiming the inspired, inerrant, infallible, authoritative, sufficient word of God.

And so this is how God works, and we see it happening throughout the pages of Scripture. He works through his word.

He reveals himself through his word. We see that all the way back in Genesis, the very beginning.

The first words recorded, let there be light. So he creates through his word. He convicts through his word.

He reveals himself through his word. He corrects through his word. And then he, of course, saves through his word.

And so when we're preaching, as God has called us to do, we're not just talking about the ink that we see on the page.

We're talking and proclaiming about something that's living and active. Hebrews 4, 12, and 13 says,

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two -edged sword. And it goes on to speak about the depth in which it pierces.

And so this is why we see Paul commanding Timothy in chapter 4 of that first epistle. You know, charging him, he says, in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus to preach the word.

Be ready in season and out of season. Reprove, rebuke, exhort with complete patience and teaching.

And so I love the way John MacArthur has put it. He says, the only logical response to an errant scripture then is to preach it expositionally.

By expositionally, I mean preaching in such a way that the meaning of the Bible passage is presented entirely and exactly as it was intended by God.

Expository preaching is the proclamation of the truth of God as mediated through the preacher, end quote.

And so to kind of put that into layman's terms, expository preaching is really just taking the main point of a biblical text and then making that the main point of the sermon.

I'm someone who loves alliterations. It helps me to remember things, and so I like to break expository preaching down into five major aspects.

I think it's helpful to do that. So number one, when we think about expository preaching, we can say it examines.

It begins by discovering what the biblical text is saying. Before you can know what something means, you have to know what it says.

So one is examine. Two, this comes from the root word exposes, so we're determining what the biblical text means and then establishing the main point of the text through exegetical study.

So we're not imposing anything onto the text, but rather we're kind of pulling back the curtains and allowing the light of the text to shine.

So number three, it expounds. So from there, we're going to take the main point of the text, and we want to make that the central point of our sermon.

And then four, exalts. It declares and proclaims that central point in a way that people can understand, and I love

John Piper's book on this, Expository Exaltation. It's a highly recommended book on that topic.

So it's not just teaching. It is exalting in the glory of God and exalting in the truth that's being proclaimed in Scripture.

And then finally, explains. So we want to explain how that central point applies to the lives of the listeners, which is rooted in the person and work of Christ.

So examines, exposes, expounds, exalts, and explains. Well, that is excellent to get our audience prepared to understand more clearly and deeply the conversation that will follow after the midway break, which we must enter at this point.

Please be patient with us, folks. The midway break is always the longer break in the middle of the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the

FCC requires of them to have their programs, like Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, localized geographically to Lake City, Florida.

They do that by airing their own public service announcements and other local things during this break.

We, on the other hand, simultaneously air our globally heard commercials. Please use this time wisely.

Write down as much of the information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.

And hopefully that will often mean purchasing their products, using their services, supporting their parachurch organizations, and visiting their churches.

But when you cannot do any of those things, there's one thing that everybody listening can do.

You can contact our advertisers and say, thank you for sponsoring Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, if you really are grateful that there are those out there who love this program so much that they share their wealth with us so that we can remain on the air.

So please thank our advertisers. We cannot exist without them. And also send in your questions to Kevin Hay, to ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. Don't go away.

We're going to be right back after these messages. Yeah. Back together again.

Yeah. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd. On a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

Back together again. And there's more great news. Chris Arnson of Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio can get you a 30 % discount off the registration fee.

Go to g3nin .org. That's g3nin .org. And enter promo code

G3ISIR. That's G3ISIR for the 30 % discount.

Chris Arnson, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the

G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God. Make sure you stop by the

Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

Go to g3nin .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 % discount off the registration fee.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the

Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you.

Hello, my name is Anthony Uvinio and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corum, New York and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening. Grace Covenant Baptist Church As host of Iron Sharpens Iron radio,

I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations. The church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is

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Before we return to our guest Kevin Hay and our discussion on the necessity of expository preaching

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Kevin Hay on the necessity of expository preaching chrisarnson at gmail .com

Kevin, before we take any of our listener questions

I just have a couple more follow -up questions for you. When you say that expository preaching is necessary as is featured in our title are you saying that a church should never conduct topical preaching even if something has happened in the community that would seem to compel a pastor to teach on a topic?

Yeah, that's a really great question, Chris and I need the answer to that.

You know, I know that in my own pastoral ministry there are various times where there's a particular topic that you really feel like your congregation needs to hear from God's word and so I will often spend a few weeks here and there to touch on a particular topic.

You know, maybe it's on the topic of the health of the local church or maybe we want to focus in on the

Great Commission you know, whatever the case may be. I definitely think there are opportunities there to open up God's word and to focus in on a particular topic.

But I think in terms of just the general diet of what the local church should consume you know, it's important to understand and recognize that God hasn't given us just one single volume of Revelation instead he's given us 66 volumes comprised in this one book we know as the

Bible and although each of those are all inspired scripture they're different and they're unique.

Scripture is written over a period of 1 ,500 years through about 40 different authors three different continents, three different languages and so God really used all different walks of life as his human authors from shepherds to scholars, priests to prophets and so there's this beautiful tapestry of design that God has inspired through these various authors and so he's provided us with the law, the history narrative prophecy, there's wisdom literature there's poetry, gospels, epistles and so as a church, really

I think instead of bouncing around the Bible and picking out random passages to pontificate upon a healthy church says we want the whole counsel of God's word and so I think, again, the normative approach should be that where church walks through the

Bible together book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse and that way the agenda of preaching no longer revolves around the opinions of the preacher but rather on the guidance of our

God and I'll just be totally honest with you it's kind of like the choice of meals in my family,

Chris, to be totally transparent if it were up to me my family would eat pizza boneless wings and burgers for about every meal but I thank

God for a wife who helps her family to have a wide range of healthy meals and I believe the same is true for the word of God but to an even greater extent so expository preaching in that way provides the body with a healthy,

God -honoring diet of the robust theological wisdom in His word but yes, there are certainly opportunities to really park on a particular topic that a pastor might feel like his people need in a certain season

Okay, we have an anonymous listener the anonymous listener says I am remaining anonymous because I have a little bit of a complaint regarding my own church in regard to expository preaching they conduct expository preaching but sometimes they will go through for instance, an

Old Testament text or might even be possibly a New Testament text that is not specific that is not specifically addressing salvation and the issue of the necessity of believing in Christ and repenting and putting your trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross and His bodily resurrection might be absent from the conversation because of the fact that is not specifically being mentioned in the text and the pastor is trying to avoid the exegesis is this proper or should the text also include the addition of a gospel message even though you're conducting exegetical preaching on passages that don't involve that subject

Yeah, that's a really good question and I think what we have to recognize when we're thinking about the role of the pastor teacher is that when we think about Ephesians chapter 4 and Paul writes there to the church and he explains that God has given gifts to the church when we think about pastor teachers specifically chapter 4 verse 12 of Ephesians says that it helps to equip the saints for the work of the ministry for the building up of the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the

Son of God to mature manhood to the measure of the stature and the fullness of Christ so that we may no longer be children tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine by human cunning, by craftiness and deceitful schemes but rather, speaking the truth in love we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head into Christ from whom the whole body joined and held together by every joint with which is equipped when each part is working properly makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love and so I think as long as your pastor is expositing the scriptures rightly and is teaching the word of God we need to recognize that God's going to work through that word

God is faithful to work through his word and the role of preaching is going to be to help to equip the saints and the

Spirit's going to use that mightily to help the church become more mature in their understanding of the word and in the way they live their lives and so certainly when

I preach my goal is to present Christ in some facet

Christ is really the anchor and the root of everything we do it's through his person and his work but at the same time

I think not every single sermon I preach necessarily is going to have an explicit evangelistic ministry because the nature of the church itself is made primarily is comprised primarily it's the gathering of the saints in other words we come together as the church it is the assembly of God's people and yet there are great opportunities to share the gospel with those who are in the midst as well who may not be believers and so no,

I don't think it always has to be that way I think that there are great opportunities to preach from the Old Testament and the

New and it may not have a specific gospel presentation found within it Now, would you find fault with a pastor committed to expository preaching and no matter what he is exegeting from the

Bible even if it is absolutely nothing to do with the gospel maybe texts involving gender roles for instance or anything else that you could think of that is not explicitly gospel centered would you find fault with the pastor concluding his message by referring to New Testament passages that would be more clear and specifically focused on the gospel

Oh no, no, no, not at all I think of Spurgeon who often said that every sermon he preaches in some facet makes a beeline to the cross and contains

Christ and so I think that every passage of scripture that we're preaching again, is ultimately rooted in the person in the work of Christ it's through his work that we're able to live the

Christian life, obviously not only from the aspect of his work, his finished work on the cross his perfect righteousness and trusting in what he's done but the spirit that's been given to us to live out the

Christian life and so, no, absolutely I think that it's a great opportunity to connect it to what

Christ has done and how Christ is the centrality of it all

We have another anonymous listener who says what harm could be done if a church sticks to topical preaching as long as they are preaching from the divinely inspired word?

Yeah, so when you think about from the perspective of the preacher

I think that's maybe the best way to approach that question I think one of the tendencies that preachers can have is that we can have our hobby horses so, for example

I love the sovereignty of God and so, you know if it's up to me every single week even if I'm trying not to do that I may end up finding passages of Scripture that speak of God's sovereignty and again, loving the sovereignty of God I see it in every passage

I believe that God is sovereign and I believe that Scripture is saturated with that reality but just as an example that may be something that ends up happening and so, instead of the church receiving the whole counsel of God's word they actually end up receiving kind of just these focal points that the pastor whether intentionally or unintentionally continues to be drawn to so that's one thing

I would say and probably the most important one but it really leans on the whole counsel of God's word again,

He's given us all of Scripture for a reason He is omniscient, full of wisdom

He's the designer and so, I think it's important that we walk through Scripture the other thing

I think about is on the other side of that spectrum I can't tell you the number of times that I've come to passages that I would have never chosen had it been up to me and me alone

I would have probably avoided some of those passages but whether it's genealogies or something else we come to them and I'm going to approach them like I would all the other passages that we're walking our way through Yes, and I know of for instance and I'm not saying that Calvinist pastors never do this too

I don't know of any personally that do but I have known non -Calvinist especially anti -Calvinist pastors

I've known them personally who simply will not preach an exegetical message on Romans 9 for instance or other issues from the

Scripture that clearly when you are considering the plain and obvious reading of the text are glaringly supportive of Reformed theology

Yeah, that's right and I have a friend who is a sovereign grace -believing pastor from a non -Calvinist fundamentalist background before he came to see the doctrines of grace and embraced them his father -in -law a wonderful man in many respects but a vehement anti -Calvinist who is also a pastor and when he learned that his son -in -law who he had not yet discovered had become a believer in the doctrines of grace when he heard his son -in -law was going to be preaching on Romans 9 he said, oh you got to look at my sermon notes first and he actually said in the sermon notes read this passage quickly and get through it quickly like you're tearing off a band -aid and he said don't let your listeners dwell too long on this chapter because they might be led to the wrong conclusion that it supports

Calvinism and the thing that's fascinating to me is the man who wrote that in his sermon notes believes in the inerrancy of scripture believes that this is 100 %

God -breathed even to an extreme sense of woodenness that every letter in his

King James Bible is inerrant in that translation and yet he is telling his son -in -law to avoid this or go through it quickly

I mean almost like you're tricking you're here it blows my mind that a fundamentalist would say that right yeah absolutely so it's as if you you know if you're walking through scripture you get through the first eight chapters of Romans and all of a sudden you come to chapter 10 right as if there is no chapter 9 now do you think that this is one of the reasons since you're supporting very urgently the use of expository preaching and actually calling it a necessity that this is where it becomes helpful to the body of Christ in a specific congregation that you have at least two services a day

I'm not saying that the Bible mandates that I know solid churches that do not have two services but don't you think that that would be a logical conclusion that it would be extremely helpful so that you can make sure that more of the whole counsel of God is being presented each

Lord's Day when you have a different area of the of the scriptures where you might be going through the

Bible expositorily that what you were not bringing to light in the morning service yeah

I think that's a good a good way of thinking about it Chris I think that certainly the the morning worship service

I would see that as the best opportunity to have your your whole church there listening to the exposition of God's word for me and my pastorate most recently my

Sunday evenings were being spent doing a survey series of scripture and so I was expositing the book of Genesis for example on Sunday mornings walking our way through that and on Sunday evenings

I was going through each book of the Bible beginning with Genesis and then walking our way through and I know for for other men like for example

Martin Lloyd -Jones he would exposit God's word on Sunday morning but then

Sunday night was what he called an evangelistic service so it would be a dedicated time on Sunday evening where every sermon he preached on Sunday night would be specifically aimed at evangelism and that was intentionally so but yeah

I think of that often the opportunities I have to teach I think that there are different ways of of approaching the teaching of God's word so there's again the expositional proclamation happening

Sunday mornings maybe a different opportunity on Sunday night if you have a midweek service maybe there's a opportunity for some sort of small group more application focused we just want to apply the word of God but before we can apply it we have to understand it rightly and that's where expositional preaching comes in By the way

I want to quickly mention that our that our anonymous listeners who sent in questions if you are first time questioners please give me your full name and mailing address obviously that will not be revealed on the air since you remain anonymous we would never reveal your mailing address anyway on the air but give me your mailing address through an email so that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship to you a free

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will be the ones that actually ship the Bible out to you at no cost to you or to us we have

Arnie in Perry County Pennsylvania and Arnie says isn't this use of expository preaching also another reason why churches should have

Bible studies in addition to the teaching and preaching from the pulpit well

I think that certainly Bible studies I think he's kind of reflecting upon the person well actually it was me that brought up the advantage of having a second service so it's like another time where you could discuss other issues and hash them out and all that kind of thing yeah definitely any of those opportunities that you have to to get together to discuss

God's word to hear the teaching or preaching of God's word that's the primary means that God uses to shape and mold us and so those are all vitally important small group

Bible studies are great because it gives you the opportunity to have more focused discussion and things of that nature whereas in your corporate worship service you're obviously not having an opportunity like that so I think those are those are very important to the life of a local church thank you

Arnie we have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York and Bobby says do you think that if a church that is theologically faithful is not conducting expository preaching where they are going through books one verse or multiple verses at a time every

Sunday chronologically that that is enough of a reason to leave a church no

I wouldn't say that I think that there are a number of factors that need to be reconsidered when you think about you know the prospect of ever leaving a local church but that really begins with rightly understanding what meaningful church membership is and the idea of really making a covenant with other believers and submitting your life to the shepherds who are going to give an account for the way that they have cared for your soul and so I think long before anyone should ever think of leaving their church for that they need to certainly sit down maybe with their pastor and share whatever concerns they might have before you'd ever want to take a drastic step like that and Susan Margaret in Dauphin County Pennsylvania says you obviously believe topical preaching is filled with flaws are there any abuses of expository preaching that our listeners who are in the pastorate especially should avoid yeah that's a great question obviously even good things can be misused

I mean there is such a thing called hyper -Calvinism so you have truths of the

Bible being twisted to such an extent where they don't even resemble what

God intended by them so I'm just using that as an example how even expository preaching possibly could be misused yeah that's right and I think an important thing for us to recognize is that we're not placing our faith in expository preaching our faith is in Christ who is revealed to us in scripture and so the whole idea of expository preaching is simply we want to we want

God to speak through us that way that the people of God are hearing from the voice of God and expository preaching is the means by which we seek to do that I think that the biggest danger

I can think of in terms of expository preaching is many who would see the importance or the necessity as we've worded it of expository preaching are people who see and have high regard for correct exegesis of God's word and so they they want to spend lots of time we want to get deep we want to understand you know back to the original language we want to look at the

Greek we want to understand the syntax we want to really understand the verb tense

I think the biggest danger is that men can come into the pulpit bringing all of their sermon notes and then kind of regurgitate that for the congregation and it still needs greater synthesis or it can kind of be muddled over in terms of just maybe reading a commentary but expository preaching again includes the exaltation of God's word so it's being presented with clarity it's being presented with conviction and compassion so there's a number of components here that need to be included in that but in terms of dangers

I would see that being the case because rightly understood again, expository preaching is just helping the people of God to hear the voice of God for the glory of God Now could one flaw that could exist when somebody is faithfully when

I say faithfully I just mean regularly conducting expository preaching could an error or a misuse of that be being overly slow moving in going through the texts of scripture where you might be to give an exaggerated example going through half of a verse a week and really putting under a microscope every single word where you're really not moving on to other texts and you're keeping the congregation captive in a certain area for far too long before you explore other areas of the scripture in your succession of chronological examination of the

Bible Yeah that's a great question Chris and I think you're spot on there obviously our

Lord himself has said man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God and so obviously every word is vitally important but I think your point is valid I do think one of the pitfalls could be kind of just being too slow in the sense that it ends up taking away from the overarching context that surrounds that word or verse that you're looking at so that you're really missing the thrust of the text because again the idea of expository preaching is to make the main point of the text the main point of your sermon and so if every sermon is just focused on one word or a few words then

I do think there probably could be an obstacle there for you in terms of missing that overarching context

Yeah and I think a couple of things inherent to that misuse the fewer words of the

Bible that you're actually examining when you're exegeting the passage if you have an hour long sermon or even a 45 minute long sermon you're going to be more prone as a preacher to be guilty unconsciously perhaps of eisegesis in other words the more of your own words that are there than the

Bible's words am I making sense here? You're going to be more prone to perhaps put your own ideas forward that are not even obviously there you know

Yeah absolutely and that really takes us to that whole topic of biblical interpretation 2

Timothy 2 .15 Paul writes to his protege and his beloved son in the faith

Timothy saying be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed accurately handling the word of truth and so hermeneutics is the word we use to talk about the science of biblical interpretation or the principles used in the process of interpretation and I would hold to a historical grammatical interpretation so my goal is always to understand what the author's original intention was to the original audience and then to bridge the gap so to speak from that century to our world today and when you do that you have to take into consideration a number of aspects so we're obviously presupposing scripture's divine origin scripture attests to that reality as we've already talked about this afternoon we acknowledge the need for divine enablement we need the spirit of God to help us to illuminate the word for us as we seek to understand it rightly although there might be a number of various applications to any given text there's one single meaning again we look at the words and the grammar but then we look at like I said earlier the original context so we're asking questions like who's the author, who is this written to, when was it written, where was it written, what's taking place and to your point if you're just going through one word at a time or a few words every week you know you're going to have to bring a lot in in order to make up the time there and so scripture is sufficient and we need to make sure that we are presenting the word of God to the people of God and not bringing in our own thoughts and opinions or preconceived ideas we have to go to our final break it's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks if you have a question please send it in immediately because we are rapidly running out of time chrisarnson at gmail .com

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I am forever in your debt, my dear brother. Well, we are back with our final segment of today's interview with Kevin Hay on expository preaching.

And I want you, Kevin, to have several uninterrupted minutes to really focus on what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners in regard to expository preaching before they leave this program today.

Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, I was just going to say that really there's two things

I think about in terms of the importance of expository preaching, why

I care so much about it. And so on the one hand, it goes back to what we talked about earlier, that scripture is the revelation of God.

And so God has revealed himself to us, and we know that in his great plan of redemption by his grace, he's used preaching as the means by which to bring his people to himself.

And so it's vitally important for that reason, and that's why I'm passionate about it. But then on the other hand,

I just have such a burden for the church, particularly in America, but globally, because when you look in the

New Testament, we see this word for preaching. It means heralding. It means proclamation. And I love the illustration of the medieval town crier.

Before the days of newspapers or modern media, social media, it was the job of the town crier to stand up among the citizens of the town square in representation of the king with the authority of the king to proclaim the news that was given to him by the king.

So whether it was military battles, victories won, royal decrees, whatever it was, he was the herald on behalf of the king.

And that's what the church has been called to do. The pastor of the church, the pastors have been called to herald the greatest news ever known to man by the glorious king of kings.

And yet we see passages of Scripture, 2 Timothy 4 .3,

which says, The time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions.

And so instead of serving faithfully as the town crier, so many churches today, really, they want to act more like the court jester.

They want to entertain the city guests and tell jokes and stories to the townspeople. And so instead of delivering the good news from the king, many of them have abandoned their primary calling.

Their goal and measure of success is to gather a crowd and to keep them coming back for more.

And so they've replaced things like evangelism with entertainment, all the while neglecting to tell the citizenry about their lost condition and the only hope for eternal life.

And so for me, I just want to see churches be healthy. I want to see churches obey their king.

And rather than alter the message or abdicate their calling, I want to see churches faithfully proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And so that's that's my passion. And that's what God has called me to do. And and I'm grateful and thankful to him for it.

Amen. And don't forget, folks, the From Shadows to Substance conference where my guest,

Kevin Hay, is one of the speakers. In fact, they have 10 speakers. I don't know if I forgot to mention my friend

Claude Ramsey or not, but he is one of the most powerful preachers I've ever heard in my life. He is on the roster there, among many others.

So go to Jeffrey Rice's Facebook page to find out more about how to register.

He spells his name J -E -F -F -E -R -Y, Rice, like Rice -a -roni. And if you scroll down, you will find this.

You can also go to Eventbrite to register. I want to thank you so much,

Kevin, for being such a great guest today. I want to thank everybody who listened. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater savior than you are a sinner.