Wide-Ranging Dividing Line

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 9 7 3 4 6 0 2 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Upcoming Appearances and the Reliability of the New Testament Text

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line on a Thursday afternoon. I forgot to look at the temperature last temperature, but it was it was 86 at least at one point. I may be even higher than that now.

I don't know, but I understand some of you are still in the grip of the cold in other places. But not here. Let me tell you what tomorrow evening at Bethel Grace Baptist Church 17909 Carpintero Avenue in Bellflower, California the reliability of the New Testament text.

7 p .m. And On Saturday evening at 6 p .m Conducting debate to the glory of God which will be the first time I've ever discussed That particular subject as far as a single topic. At the same location look forward to seeing those of you in the Southern, California area for those those Presentations some of you have seen the reliability the New Testament text presentation.

But I always keep expanding it and I have to sort of look at how much time I've got how much I can put into It stuff like that and now having gotten to go to Dublin and see some stuff at the Trinity Library I've added a few things to the presentation including a comma Johannium that not been there before so we it keeps getting longer.

So I whenever I do it after to look at my time frame and then go through and hide slides and do stuff for that. And it's just sort of how that goes. But we will be there this weekend and I look forward to seeing folks in that area I had said the last time.

It was last time is a lot of time before last anyways I wanted to start providing just just for a few minutes at a time nothing major, but One of the emails that I had received that I was responding to Was from a father whose son is at a community college and has encountered one of those folks.

And I sort of feel a connection here because my daughter ran into a into a foul-mouthed anti-christian bigot as a professor at Glendale Community College and you can search under Lee Carter on my blog for the open letters I wrote and You know, even though you know, these guys they can use profanity in class.

They can Tell young students their parents have lied to them and they can do anything Under the name of academic freedom as long as the object is a Christian. I Mean we all just know this is happening It just as long as the object is a Christian Christian anti-christian bigotry is perfectly acceptable in our society.

It can't be directed toward other religious groups, but anti-christian bigotry that's perfectly acceptable. That's that's how it is. And it seems that every little community college has its radical atheist that just Views it as his or her Responsibility and calling in life to destroy the faith of young people and one such individual is constantly directing people to a website and I Mentioned before this is San Diego Canyon College in Orange, California and this particular teacher directs people to J Huger comm and I don't know why it's J Huger comm because Persons identified as a Huber, but whatever.

I'm not really concerned about all that. But there are questions for Bible thumpers now not sure what a Bible thumper is, but Wanted to look at some of these questions provide some responses. Not going to do the whole thing all at once.

None of these are overly challenging nor overly serious, but that's the kind of material that is that is thrown out there. Another good reason why we need to prepare our young people Before we send them off to the local community college you might think well, I'm not sending them off to you know UCLA or something like that.

I'm not saying I went to Berkeley, you know, what do you expect in berserk Lee? But The reality is it doesn't matter where you send them. In fact it some of the scariest places to send them are places called Christian colleges.

The preparation needs to be done. Long before them I am becoming more and more focused upon the necessity of encouraging Christians to be purposefully cultivating a Christian world. View this is should be something that we are passing on to the next generation.

This is something we must encourage in the regular ministry of the word and the regular ministry of the church. Because the the the shallowness of Naturalistic materialism it's It's mind-numbing how shallow it is and yet because they have the bully pulpit because they have The bullhorn of public education and things like that.

We need to be we need to be prepared. We need to know how to give an answer yet with gentleness and respect. So looking at the Bible thumpers page. It starts off as saying The following are questions I have about the Bible and Christianity.

I really doubt their questions, but they are objections disguises questions of course. I've asked most of them of folks who have written to complain about my site. I have not yet received adequate answers of course.

If you don't want adequate answers, you will never receive adequate answers you get to determine. What is adequate? I realize in all that not all Christians are Bible thumpers and not all Bible thumpers believe exactly the same thing.

When answering these questions feel free to skip those which not apply to you. It might be helpful to explain why a certain question is not applied, but it's not required. The KJV Bible as the literal word of God there are no questions in this section.

Because I don't consider it worthwhile discussing things with people actually believe that God spoke to Moses in Elizabethan English. For the KJV Bible to be the literal word of God. That's exactly what would have to have happened and that's what literal means exactly word for word what someone said well, I certainly understand.

Why you wouldn't want to include a KJV section, but that's not exactly even what the wildest King James. I mean there are some really wild King James folks who actually do go that far, but even the really wild ones are still saying the King James was basically inspired between 1604 and 1611 and Not that Moses was speaking in English, but I'm I'm the last person on the planet to be Talking about that particular one given I wrote an entire book on the subject The Bible as the Word of God.

We're in the Bible if anywhere does the Bible say it is the Word of God. Well many Many many many times I obviously when someone asks a rather simplistic question like that I want to know are they just setting up some type of a trap again a simplistic and non-meaningful trap.

In other words I've had people say well Where does the Bible say it's Word of God as soon as you go to a certain passage it talks about its inspiration or where? Jesus says this is God speaking or anything like that.

Well, but he's not talking about that 66 books of Bible he didn't say 66 books Bible and They think they somehow have accomplished something at that point it is very clear that Jesus recognized the Old Testament text the Tanakh the Torah the Nevi 'im and the Ketuvim as That which is inspired that which is God speaking and You just read the 119th Psalm it you read Moses himself recognized He was communicating God's Word.

119 Psalm recognizes that that was taking place. You get to this and of course since the Bible is written over time. This is a something that Obviously has to deal with the Bible as it is developing over time so that when you get to New Testament you have Jesus very Plainly recognizing the inspired nature of the New Testament and then the New Testament writers in the later books Recognizing that God was again giving revelation Taking place in that way as well the promises of Christ concerning the Holy Spirit and so on and so forth are all there.

So I'm not really sure what the what you know. Do you want the phrase the 66 these 66 books are the Word of God you don't have that if you have? More than sufficient recognition. That God has spoken by the prophets to the people of Israel and that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and that his disciples then are his representatives and they explain the gospel and they explain the founding of the Christian Church and the Form of that church and the purpose that church in the promulgation of the gospel, then it really isn't much of a question that The scriptures definitely claimed that kind of authority and that nature in those classical passages that Peter gives us in regards to men spoke from God as they're carried along by the Holy Spirit and in in Paul's Reference in writing to Timothy that scriptures are they honest us.

They are God breathed. How do you know this applies to the Bible as we know it today and not some other collection of books? Well again There is no other collection of books that is contemporaneous and that is consistent with itself.

The Old Testament prophets were familiar with others the Old Testament prophets the Old Testament prophets referred to Moses. The New Testament very clearly recognizes the very same canon the Old Testament that the Jewish people had at that particular point in time.

The idea this is in reference to anything else is just simply Absurd for example How do you know it refers to the Gospels of John Mark Luke and Matthew and not the Gospel Simon Thomas and Peter? Well stop with this one because it you know, very good question in a sense it's This is this is one of the things that I would say And I'm gonna have to put this together, you know what I'm gonna have to put this together and Throw this out for folks what there should be a we should have a senior high school apologetic reading list and If you're if you're a senior is is heading off to any place.

I don't care where they're going. They should be exposed to for example the Gospel of Thomas. I think every young Christian person in this day Walking into I don't care what school you're going to I don't care if it's Bob Jones.

You need to have read the Gospel of Thomas to recognize what its worldview is. To recognize its history. It's ridiculously shallow textual history and To be able to look that professor in the eye and say when was the last time you read the Gospel of Thomas?

Given the evidence of the New Testament in comparison to that of the Gospel of Thomas given the fact that Thomas clearly as it exists today Gives evidence of Gnostic influence including forms of Gnosticism that not did not develop until the middle of the second century.

Isn't it obvious painfully obvious that this represents a much later time period unlike the canonical Gospels which plainly Come from the very same worldview that you have in Second Temple Judaism That existed in Jerusalem at the very time they claim to have Be narrating the events which is what you do not have in Thomas.

Thomas is plainly dependent upon the canonical Gospels the others Gospel of Simon gospel even later Depending on which Peter you're talking about here and that none of these are consistent with the Old Testament texts that the that Matthew Mark Luke and John are consistent with.

We really should make sure that our young people are well aware of this. It is absurd to think that the Statements of Paul or Peter something like that would have anything to do with Gnostic Gospels or other apocryphal Gospels of the second and third centuries.

And the the vast difference in the quality consistency in worldview of the canonical Gospels in comparison to The The Gnostic Gospels is just well there isn't any comparison. It's a completely different world, but unfortunately if you've not read any of those things then you you can't say anything about it and You can't really engage the argument, and that's exactly what they want they want to they want to silence you so There's just a few just few sentences respond to a few of them.

I'm just gonna need to download this file so I can mark it up and say okay. We're right here, and that's what I'll do after the program, but let's Let's get to at least one email question, and we'll get to your your questions as well at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

Common Grace and Hyper-Calvinism

Get to this one right now. I have heard you speak many times about common grace. I thought this was a position of all Reformers until I came across some reformed teachers that teach uncommon grace. They would say the sun shining on the just and the unjust is common Providence not common grace.

They would ask the question if the Sun didn't shine on the just and unjust would that then be common hate is It not true at the common good things the wicked receive is given into in God's hatred and ultimately Becomes a trap to them.

I would appreciate your insight in this matter. There is a debate amongst some on the issue of common grace. There are many who would say that anyone who denies common grace is automatically to be identified as a hyper Calvinist.

And there are clearly hyper Calvinists who deny common grace. But I am especially sensitive to the charge of hyper Calvinism because there are so many dishonest individuals even in my listen audience, unfortunately who use that as a bat and Basically and and I Phil Johnson in his primer on on hyper Calvinism.

I liked how he put it at one place. Let me see if I can find it find it real quickly here he said. Basically, let's see here. There's the Super lapsarianism. Finally some critics here. It is unthinkingly slapped the label hyper on any variety of Calvinism that is higher than the view.

They hold to. I can name names boy names are popping to my mind right now. That's exactly. What is done out there is that people who are barely Calvinistic at all will identify anyone who is more thoroughly or consistently Calvinistic as hyper-Calvinist and You know who you are and I know who you are.

You and your little websites so I I want to be very careful in saying that a denial of common grace may be a Mark but what you should always look for is a Conjunction a coming together of Various marks that would identify hyper-Calvinism and especially and and most importantly a denial that the gospel call applies to all who hear.

That you should proclaim the gospel to all and that every person hearing has a duty to respond. That's first and foremost. That's acts 17. God commands all men everywhere to repent. We don't know who the elect are we we Proclaim the gospel and we seek to see people embrace the gospel of Christ.

We don't know who the elect are. Our heart breaks when we see fellow creatures who who are on the path of destruction. To not bow the knee to the Lord Jesus Christ. Do not repent of your sins and to flee for him will bring eternal destruction.

And as those who have been saved from that path We cannot help but with zeal and passion seek to call others to bow to his lordship and to experience eternal life Through faith in his name. That's just that's just the way that is but the real mark of hyper-Calvinism is for example when When William Carey was talking about going out and doing missions work when a man stands up and says young man If God wishes to save the heathen, he will do it at its own time without your help.

That is the kind of attitude that marks hyper-Calvinism and for every Squishy Calvinist out there who wants to accuse me of hyper-Calvinism. I haven't seen you outside the temple in Salt Lake City and I don't see you debating the Muslims and calling them to Christ and when you do then we may have a discussion but till then You just might want to you know, stop with that silliness.

So Yeah, there there are those especially in the Protestant Reformed Church Who have a particular debate with the CRC over the nature of common grace and that has developed and I remember I had downloaded a Sermon I was listening to it and all of a sudden this guy broke into this diatribe about about heretics talking about Grace, oh, I have a feeling I know what the background of that is and and I try to observe those things a little bit from afar and Try not, you know trying to get hit by the bottles that are thrown and things like that.

But I I do believe that in light of the fact That God's wrath could be brought To bear at any point in time Justly and rightly upon any sinner who is not in Jesus Christ. That obviously as a result of that It is grace that is extended even to the reprobate In their enjoyment of life and making the sun to shine and so on so forth.

So I do not view that as quote-unquote common hate. Or Just providence or anything else? I think that is an extension of a kind of grace. But I clearly recognize the difference between common grace and salvific grace.

If you don't if you're if you wander off into Arminianism and prevenient grace where grace is trying to do something But not actually accomplishing anything then you've got some some major major issues on the other side of them of the fence.

But Yes, there there is a debate there and it can get very hot and very heavy and very nasty and It shouldn't but it very frequently does especially when entire churches have been formed out of that particular issue real quickly.

Mark 6 and Jesus' Miracles in Nazareth

Had another question on Mark chapter 6 and this is not an unusual one. When Jesus is in Nazareth he says and Jesus said to them a prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and Among his relatives and in his own household and he could do no mighty work there.

Except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them. Now the the parallel passage in Matthew actually does not say he could do no work. But he simply did no mighty work. Well, except he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them.

This gives you gives you an idea. It wasn't that there was no healing power left in Jesus. And it was not a lack of capacity or even desire on his part. I think you know the question the obvious question that people have on at this particular point is Well was Jesus's ability to do miracles Dependent Upon individuals because verse 5 says and he marveled because of their unbelief and So because there wasn't faith there on their part then he could not do anything.

There are lots of people Who take that perspective? I mean you can just turn on the television and your lack of faith is why you're not being healed and your lack of faith is why you didn't you're not driving this kind of car that kind of car and and blah blah blah blah blah and It's normally the excuse that is given when the the prayer of faith doesn't heal the sick.

Well, it's it's all your your fault and you need to do this and you do that. So the question is being asked Why does it specifically say I mean the Greek of Mark 6 5 is Kaiuk a do not ah a kai poy a sigh so Udemy on dunaman At do not ah Dunamis Dunami.

Same terminology in capacity inability that we see in in John chapter 6. No one is able to come to me and so People are struck by that phrase. He could do no mighty work there. And so the question that people have is well How can how can God's power?

Be be limited by man's unbelief. And there are people who develop an entire theology out of that. I would very strongly suggest that the answer to this question should be found in asking why Jesus did any of the signs or the miracles that he did.

That is there was a purpose there were lots and lots and lots of sick and lame people throughout the world at that time and. And while Jesus healed many he did not heal all he did not seem to make it his purpose to Go and find all the places where the sick people were in John chapter 5 when he goes to the pool of Bethesda.

There are all sorts of people lying around. He heals one and even that one. Seems that if we sort of look sort of carefully at the text. There was a purpose in the healing of that one and and it wasn't really his salvation.

It was to prompt the encounter that comes afterwards and We have no record that Jesus then went back and then healed everybody else. He left him there and so The idea that Jesus was just running around emptying out all the hospitals and there wasn't a such thing at the time.

But you know what? I mean? Just as a demonstration of power. Leaves us with with a well an unfulfilled mission because he didn't do that there was a purpose for everything that Jesus did and When we look at the signs and miracles of Jesus They were meant to point to himself and they were meant to point to his purpose and his message and his gospel and his identity and So I would say that the reason that we have this strong term Adunata that is used in Mark 6 5 Has nothing to do with Christ incapacity.

But has to do with the appropriateness of when Jesus does his miracles didn't Herod want to see a really cool miracle. He wanted to see a magic trick didn't he and I'm sure he's you know, I can I can do something with Pilate.

I can get you out of this I can get you out of the country. Could you just you know, maybe raise somebody from the dead or Do something really cool like that Jesus Didn't even speak to the man. Just didn't do miracles to make people go.

Wow Jesus did we did to reveal himself as a son of God and as the foundation of the authority of the gospel message and repentance that he preached and taught and that he taught to his disciples as well and He didn't give them the power and ability to do the miraculous things they did just simply to show off and So there is an appropriate time to do things but clearly in Nazareth There was notice it says He thou mod zoned.

He was he was amazed verse 6 Because of their apostia their unbelief. Maybe it was due to the fact that they had seen His sinless character for a longer period of time than anybody else. I Mean it's one thing to be unbelieving when Jesus comes in your town you ever even heard of this guy before but this man never sinned in your presence and Yet you have this kind of rancor and hatred toward him this unbelief.

I Mean Performing of miracles inappropriate in that context and That's where adunata comes from and I think that's that's why so anyways, I've got one more question on here and But we'll we've also got callers and we can take your calls as well at 877 -753 -3341 and dividing that line for Skype is the Address there and We've I've got stuff queued up here.

I'm we are ready to go. There's no two ways about it 877 -753 -3341 Let's go over to where I'm going to be tomorrow evening and talk with Gus in LA. Hi Gus.

Doing good. I just had a simple question. I'm in one of those community colleges similar to what you spoke about earlier and The class that I'm taking right now in history they've been talking a lot about religion, especially what they see as the early religions Egyptian and Everything they consider to be.

Because I heard your debate with Dan Barker and I wanted to know also. What are the resources that you said that Christianity has dealt with the parallel mania before? Yes. Yes, and also how would you deal with those kind of?

Argumentations, especially when they present so-called evidence. Yeah. Well, you yeah. Yeah, you have to.

Get past just simply the professor's Assertion and ask for documentation some of the sources you want to get hold of one of them. We carry one of them. We need to make sure and I think buzzes in channel.

Yes buzzes in channel. So I'm gonna send this out to buzz right now we need to make sure that Ron Nash's the gospel and the Greeks is in the Ailman. Is it ailman dot what? What Amazon dot ailment what put it up someplace so I can see it.

I can't I can't read your mouth through the window. Ron Nash's book. Amazon dot ailman org make sure that Ron Nash's book the gospel and the Greeks is available there. It's not exciting. But it is a treasure trove of material needs to be there.

There is an older book by Jay Gresham Machen that we need to have there and I know we carry in our Bookstore right now. Reinventing Jesus is an excellent resource needs to have there's there is a chapter on parallel mania in there and All of them will be directing you to the same Scholarly source, I mean Nash's book is a scholarly source, but as is reinventing Jesus.

They all are but they they will also direct you to more primary sources. And help you to think through the fundamental issues. The only way really to respond to much of this. Well, it's twofold on a positive side you have to be prepared to point out that The real background of the Jesus of the Gospels is Judaism it's what you'd expect it to be it was what Jesus himself said it was and that is the prophets and the writings of Luke 24 45 Jesus opened their minds understand the scriptures.

Why. Because they testified of him. There is no reason to be looking for anything else because the Jesus of the Bible Walks right out of the pages of the prophetic scriptures. Which we call the Tanakh the Torah the Nevi 'im and the Ketuvim the Old Testament, which we would call it as Christians.

And so That is that is a very strongly established scholarly position. That is that Jesus needs to be understood within that context of Second Temple Judaism, Tanaitic Judaism. When he lived before the destruction of the temple what was going on then.

He fits right there. He does not fit anywhere else and If someone starts throwing out alleged parallels, the first thing to do is say well, wait a minute, which one is the source? Are you seriously suggesting?

That people in Palestine where these pagan religions were despised Were grabbing hold of these things cobbling them together and Creating some type of new religion as if that's going to convince their fellow Jews.

I Mean really are the Jews are going to be excited about Osiris or Horus or Addis or Dionysus or any of this stuff? Really? Honestly, that's what you're suggesting to us. But then of course once you get to any one of the alleged parallels every single one falls apart 98 of what you will be told online and in community colleges today about any one of these alleged gods is Completely bogus.

They're just they it's made up that there are so many people Quoting so many other people who are quoting somebody else who are quoting a source that no one can ever track down. That it's just taken on a life of its own but you go well you're a scholar.

So, where is the where is the original sources? That would say, you know Mithra is real big. Okay, where are the original sources that identify a pre-existence of belief in Mithra in the area around Palestine.

Amongst the Roman citizens of that area at the days in the days of Jesus and there go. Because there aren't any it didn't enter into Roman culture until the sixth decade and really really Flourished well after that long after Christianity has been established and the New Testaments were written and all the rest of stuff.

The same thing with with with Addis. That's why I did the video on the Rob Bell Numa 15 stuff was it's it's just all anachronistic. But even then they did well 12 Apostles and born on December 25th and and you know.

They they try to create all these parallels the vast dreaded one I love the best is the Osiris parallel, you know as a serious rose from the dead. We're in reality. As his wife found his body that had been cut up into 14 pieces and one of the stories she only found 13 of the 14.

But anyway, and then she sort of pieces him together and he becomes zombified in the afterlife. Oh, yeah, that's the resurrection. Sure I mean, it's really hard not to laugh at this stuff. And yet this is the stuff that is being soberly presented by naturalistic materialists as if it's really serious and and look.

Simple simple fact here the majority of these types of people in community colleges like Lee Carter Glendale and and these these other people. They don't know any better. They don't know a different they are so bigoted and so biased Toward Christianity, they've never even listened to the other side.

They've just accepted it and they repeat it as if it's absolutely true. I mean, it's the exact opposite of serious scholarship, but that's what they do. That's what I do. So You got to have you know, you're you're ducks in a row and it's not difficult to do the materials out there there's a lot of garbage material out there too, but it's real easy to to tell the difference between a Yamauchi's book on on Mithraism and some of the Silly Gnostic stuff that's being sold on Amazon or something like that.

You know, there's waiting by anything on Amazon I'm probably by Yamauchi there too but There's there's there's garbage out there from people that have a axe to grind and then there's the serious scholarship now, unfortunately serious scholarship is normally dry as can be and you guys just plow through all sorts of stuff that you didn't even know you needed to know but It is there the facts are still there and I would start with with Ron Nash and with the reinventing Jesus book.

Those those two would really get you going pretty well.

Good. Yeah, because I had brought up the same thing I said the differences outweigh the similarities and you know, they were just at a standstill. She couldn't answer and said well, how do you explain the similarities, but.

But yeah, it's just frustrating and I did need a book 2 .2 for them to read is mainly the reason why I needed the resources. Yeah. Those will help you out a lot. Okay, I will be seeing you though tomorrow.

I have to run a class now, but uh, okay. We'll be seeing you tomorrow.

All right, Lord. Really? We'll see you then. All right. Thank you, sir. All right. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four. One is the phone number for you to get involved. I guess we weren't blowing right past the.

You couldn't I'm sorry. You can do that. I'm fired up. Oh. It's too late fired up, huh? Okay. Great. Fine. Thanks, whatever. All right, let's talk with Jonathan in Georgia. Hi Jonathan. How you doing, sir?

Doing good.

Let's see. I think you guys probably already got a bit of the details what I'm calling about. I come from a somewhat trilingual household. So we're constantly reading the Bible in English Portuguese and Spanish and I even dabble in the ballgate during church as well.

And so we have a somewhat good foundation to understand genders on nouns and pronouns throughout the scripture and I also happen to have a lot of King James only friends and I tried discussed yesterday with one of them and who the them was in verse 7.

Fortunately correctly translate that as him to the poor and needy in verse 5. But they have this ambiguity in English where them could actually work in the English language to refer back to the words, right?

To the best of my ability. I exhausted all efforts to explain how ridiculous that is in any other language. And they just they don't get it because it's that the words are so close together and in English.

You can get by with this which is frustrating, right? I tried to explain it as introducing your brother and she you know. She is my brother and and they still just don't get it because she is not a reference to a male.

The same thing happens you have this discongruity if you take out the comma, you honey you have a Kind of a grammatical blunder over in first John 5 and this is not something I've ever heard. It doesn't really this is very common actually.

Well, I've never heard it didn't bother me too much because I could see you know I guess a gender getting mixed up a lot easier than an entire verse completely disappearing in history.

Well, it's not and it's not a gender getting mixed up either. But let's explain what we're talking about. First of all You're you're exactly right in Psalm 12. Why would anyone be talking about Psalm 12?

Well, it's pretty easy. Psalm 12 is One of the texts that King James only advocates use. They apply Verse 6 the words of Yahweh are pure words like silver refined in a furnace on the ground purified seven times.

Now are you aware of the fact that just a little trivia for you here Jonathan? You may not want it. But I'm gonna offer it anyways. That there are some King James only advocates that see that purified seven times and they go.

Aha.

This. Yes, I am aware of this. Okay. What am I gonna say then? Oh, you're gonna say. The King James is the seventh edition in the English language Bible.

Close close. I mean anybody could by rigging your numbers. But actually what they do is they do the five texts of Erasmus Stephanus and Beza. So there are there you have seven Greek texts and it was a refining process.

So that you finally get to the the final thing with the with what's the TR? Which is produced by the King James translators by comparing these seven Greek texts. So I just there you go.

I don't think the King James only as I speak with have a thorough enough understanding of Erasmus Beza and Stephanus to even go to that. Well, I just thought you'd find that interesting.

But anyways people look at that and they say you O Lord will keep them. You will guard us. This is the ESV from the us from this generation forever. And what what Jonathan is pointing out is the fact that serious exegesis would allow us to ask the question What is the promise of the Lord keeping in Psalm 12 and simply looking at the immediate statement of the words of the Lord Assuming that refers to something in a translation in a language that would not exist for 2 ,000 years at that point making application is the classic example of eisegesis that the vast majority of meaningful Interpretations of Psalm 12 is talking about when it talks about the words The Lord is specifically talking about the words of Lord in regards to the promise to deliver the needy and the poor that came before that like in Psalm 12 5 and That therefore if it is keep them.