Dr. James White on Next Week with Jeff Durbin!

The Netherlands, the Nashville Statement, and Hyper-Calvinism

Welcome back. Welcome back to next week with Jeff Durbin. I'm Jeff Durbin. That is Luke the bear and that is dr James White of Alpha Omega ministries a omen dot org or alpha to make a ministries on YouTube.

You can check them out there. Welcome good to be with you. Thank you. And now actually a pastor at Apologia Church I was good. I thought that's what you're gonna say first. Well, yeah, I wanted to make an exciting announcement.

So there you go. So pastor at Apologia Church. It's actually an amazing thing. None of us all coming. So praise God and probably means trouble ahead. Yep. Yep, hopefully for the wrong agreement. Yeah, that's right.

That's right. So you just got back from from Holland.

London and Holland and then they don't use the term Holland much anymore. They called the Netherlands, but. Yeah a good insight as to what we've got coming here, what do you mean by that? The guys that had me in got in big trouble about six months ago because they translated the Nashville statement on human sexuality into Dutch and.

The government is still seriously looking into bringing charges for hate crimes.

For translating the Nashville statement into Dutch and the Nashville statement. What was controversial about it?

It's it's a historic statement of biblical Viewpoints on sexuality and marriage. Okay, so in Europe that's not allowed anymore and So they had actually been contacting me wanted me to come over and speak for a conference that they do.

And when I saw that they had gotten in trouble for this I'm like those the type of people I want to be able to be of assistance to and. So they had me speak on a number of different things. But one of the four topics that I spoke on and their conference they had nearly a thousand people there.

So and you understand the Netherlands have been crippled. Literally while I was there I was working on I don't know if I'm gonna do it on the dividing line I don't know if I'll do it at Apologia. I was working on a sermon series in my mind against Calvinism I.

Need to explain that up, right? Okay. I'm like wait wait because talk because what you see in.

The Netherlands is the result of forms of Hyper-Calvinism that have created Churches where you'll have 200 people sitting in the audience in this in this church a historic Reformed Church and There might be ten people who will partake of the supper.

And most of the ministers are not included. Well, I don't understand why not because if you partaking of the supper you are claiming to have assurance of salvation and Hyper-Calvinism destroys that because of the fact that if To partake of the supper you have to be a repentant person.

They have so Deeply defined repentance that no one could possibly do it. You can't do it perfectly. And so you're not doing it at all. And so you can't partake of the supper. So the elements just sit there that is power.

That's interesting. Oh, it's it's that's why I was saying I was literally. So here you these guys are unusual in that they are Reformed they recognize the truth of the doctrines. But they have recognized the soul-destroying aspect of the traditions that have developed.

I mean if anything shows you The dangers of Reformed theology when turned into a tradition. Yeah. That's what it was when when we lose the Evangelistic when we stop calling our children and assume that and see in Holland it became Genetic it's passed down.

It's it's you if you're there. That's what you are. If you're Dutch, that's what you are. Well now there is across Holland. There's what's called the Bible belt where you have these churches not only that but some of these churches.

You can only wear black or white. If I talked to Paul Washer and Paul spoke in a church there. He got into massive trouble for doing two things. He called people promiscuously to embrace Christ without looking for evidence of regeneration classic sign of hyper Calvinism.

Wow, they're very angry with him for doing that and Even though he wore black and white there were silver threads in his tie. You've got to be kidding and they went after him so you in these are people that have pretty much come out of that.

Mm-hmm. So they've still got the theology, but they have life they have. You know what? We would identify as as freedom in Christ, right? But they're a minority and they're having to other families are still involved this type of stuff so it was it was really amazing to see that aspect of it and We need to recognize that very frequently we are castigated as Reformed people because our theology allegedly destroys assurance of salvation.

Well in the United States, I had never met anyone who had these types of viewpoints, right? But they're there in Holland. They're there in the Netherlands. And so once you see it and you hear about it then immediately it's like well There's a that really helps in recognizing why we need to have the balance that we need to have right, but then the other thing was.

One of the four topics they asked me to speak on was homosexuality and guys the the The amount of energy we had to put in to make sure that we were on the exact same page and and the the obvious concern that they had as To exactly how you say things and part of it is I'm an American coming in and they recognize I'm used to being able to say whatever I want to say.

They don't have that freedom. They don't have that freedom what I experienced there in the Conversations and the being careful about how you say this and how you approach that and so on so forth. They weren't telling me what to say.

They're just telling me what could get them in huge huge trouble. Okay, just in the way you're expressing things.

This is what's coming for us. Well, that is that's what that's what we're talking about today. Yeah.

This is what is right around the corner for us. When you look at when I look at the people running for president right now on the left and I think of what it would be like if they were president and they had the Senate and the house right at the same time.

We would be very quickly in the exact same spot that they are there in the European Union. Lack of freedom of expression and the the constant pressure to be running multiple filters. Over everything that you say what if someone takes it this way?

So what if someone interprets it that way and that's exactly what the left wants. They want us to be silenced in that way because most of us are human beings it takes us time to run those filters and So many witnessing opportunities for example pass bias like that.

There's that there's that one moment where you need to speak and Start the conversation and if you're running 14 filters as to how you can lose your job and everything else in the process. You'd end up don't saying you don't speak and the opportunity passes by so that's a big conversation for us right now.

We've had conversations about this and it's a big conversation. Nationally for us right now in terms of what is next year 2000 2020 gonna look like in the new political office campaigns across the country the presidential election because after the last election here.

This isn't about how you feel about Donald Trump or anything at all right now. This is just generally speaking. He got elected and what happened was is that there was sort of looking down with all the national liberal media.

They all said okay. Let's look at where we're at how this happened and they recognized that the national media the major media CNN MSNBC the major platforms that have been feeding us for decades now. Did not control the conversation this time.

I tell the story often that I was in Australia and New Zealand when we were at the tail end of the last election and I remember distinctly. We were together. That's right when I had free time. And could take a break we would have the TV on both in Australia and in New Zealand now I remember distinctly and we were on the tail end of our election.

I'm watching the news in Australia and New Zealand. I'm not watching American news. It's all about us all they were talking about all day all night. Every time I turn it on was our election. Donald Trump Hillary Clinton Donald Trump Hillary Clinton.

And the thing that was amazing to me was it in both Australia and New Zealand again? Not my country these two nations all of the media that I saw and I and I remember I even said to my daughter image.

And I said, this is incredible. They've already decided our election for us was all Hillary Clinton. It's a she said no no chance Donald Trump's gonna win. It's Hillary Clinton Hillary Clinton Hillary Clinton.

So I get now back to United States the election happens and then boom Donald Trump's president. And that is where I think all media even internationally recognized. We're not in control this conversation anymore.

So what happened was is that all of these major platforms started meeting and discussing we know for a fact that the major social media platforms all met together Facebook Instagram Twitter they all met together and they had a conversation and and Very shortly after they all got together to have a conversation they killed major political platform.

Private social media companies whether and this isn't about again. How you feel about the man but info wars with Alex Jones and those sorts of guys you had and you have guys today like Milo you have. You had all the major Republican Conservative right-wing platforms these platforms just killed them.

They just took them off no explanation except you're dead and they took them out of the game completely and they're done now. That was shocking as it was but now we look at where we're at today and now they're there.

They're taking down you know the smaller voices even that are conservative voices that have any pull because they Recognize that they don't have the power anymore with the major media. It's all in social media and these privates, you know organizations or people that are actually doing this content.

So the big question right now is what's gonna happen in 2020. Well you and I Have a platform next year is the question like I know that's the question we have to start asking. So we're backing up our hard drives.

Making sure we have everything able to put on our own websites.

I'm saying buy buy as many jump drives as you can. So we'll be we'll be meeting at the local Starbucks and hanging out. That's how we're gonna be doing the program seriously. You know go back and read God smuggler, you know, brother Andrew from back in the Iron Curtain days.

And we we chuckle a little bit about that, but it's it's it it unfortunately is true. I almost wore a t-shirt. That has a Venn diagram on it. That has two circles that meet in the middle and. But it make me even fatter than I am.

But the top one the top one says 1984 the bottom one says brave new world where they intersect it says you are here. And that's where we are. And it has happened so quickly when I was in Brisbane. Right before the election in 2016.

There were big jumbotrons out in the city city center and What who was on at all time but Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton the people people in the rest of the world know. That ours is the largest economy.

Our army they may not talk about it. But Europe knows that their economy would collapse if they had to put up armed forces we are their armed forces and Once we stop doing that. They're all gonna be deeply impacted by what happens here.

And that's why they do know how many Americans have a clue who the Prime Minister of either, Australia, New Zealand. We might know Theresa May when I might know a few things might heard something about brexit.

But most of us are completely clueless, but most of them over there know what's going on here because we're the bellwether. Mm-hmm, and when it comes to Christians and the Christian movement. Look, look what happened with the United Methodist a few weeks ago.

The United Methodist actually turned back from embracing the the profaning of marriage, right. And Why? Because of African Christianity because of the the delegates that the growth in the United Methodist Church in Africa and Africans are conservative now.

We've seen African Christianity struggles horrifically with the word-faith movement and stuff like that. Massively abused but there are solid people in Africa and when it comes to cultural issues Africa tends to be extremely conservative along those lines men are men women are women.

Let's not get confused about this and so when you when you look at what's going on in places like that and the influence they're starting to have in the Anglican Church United Methodist Church. They are those those churches will eventually split.

Because of the fact that you have true believers in those places that are exercising a conservative control. So we're in a strange situation because people still look to the United States. But let's face it.

Yes, there's still a there's still a tremendous number of Christians here. But the rest of the world is seeing what we ourselves sense the next generation, you know is not embracing the Fundamental truths that gave us the freedoms which came from a Judeo-christian understanding of without mankind God law those things have been rejected and For me at my age, and I am the elderly elder at apology.

Yeah. It still is extremely jarring for me to hear Millennials and Z Jen's as they speak because I See how huge that the transition has been the change has been in that very short period of time from People say things today that never would have even been dreamt of right when I was their age, right?

And I think the rest of the world sees this as well. And that's why there's so much interest as to what's going on here. And so the big question, you know does become Alvin Omega ministries apologia. We are dependent upon being able to communicate with people that's right and Night, you know Orwell could not have Predicted he tried to as best he could at his time.

I don't if you remember, you know, the viewing screens and stuff like that the the but he could not have. It would have been in his book if he could have thought of what we have today in China where you have the 100 you have hundreds of thousands millions of cameras and they The government always knows where you are Where you're going who you're seeing and that way they can start assigning these cultural points to you and stuff like that based upon what?

Your behavior is the ability to track people the technology. That's what makes me go. Wow. What are we getting ourselves into and Where should we be looking for the growth in the kingdom? We've always What what prompted Augustine to write city of the city of God it was the first Fall of Rome.

Mm-hmm is the first time that the barbarians Penetrated so deeply into the Roman Empire as to sack Rome. They're only there a couple days sort of took some pictures and selfies and and left Didn't really do all that much damage, but it was the mental Recognition that the Roman Empire was Might not last forever and even many Christians had adopted the idea of connecting The future of the kingdom of God to the Roman Empire.

Yeah to the Christian izing of a particular cultural Aspect of things and Augusta had to say No There is a city of God and it's not it's not this it's you need to have a bigger view. He had really had to literally deal with the issue of history in the Holy Knowledge.

I Think a lot of American Christians have done the same thing. Yeah. The future the kingdom of God is Yankee. It's us. Yeah, and it strikes a lot of us as a strange thing That it might be Brazilian it might be African it might be Chinese.

And If that's what God chooses to do in the expanse of his kingdom What we should learn from that is You can never when you see God blessing a people. You cannot assume that that blessing is Going to last forever, especially if those people decide to start taking that blessing for granted yeah, and you no longer have that zealous calling for repentance and holiness of life and everything else and That's what we're seeing in in Western societies.

I mean I've spent a lot of time now over in I got to spend a lot of time running around London this last trip and I would send you guys we've got our apology a leadership, but what's that group where we Talk with each other and and especially with all the traveling that I'm doing but I'd send you guys a lot of pictures.

Yeah from the runs I was doing and you know there you've got Westminster Abbey and you've got Parliaments and you've got all these these things that have a deep rich Christian heritage, you know unavoidable.

You cannot walk down any Street in London without walking by some, you know where the Marian martyrs died and You know chiseled on the on the monuments and the stone of the of the buildings are Names that have deep Christian significance in history and the vast majority of the people walking by there Don't even think about anymore.

It's not even a part of their of their recognition. Because the secularization has become has become so deep there. Right and is God under some obligation to continue extending his blessings to a people who take his blessings and then spit in his face, right if History and if scripture and God's dealing with his people tell us anything.

No, God's not under any obligation to continue the extension of those types of blessings.

Christian History, Providence, and the Future of the Kingdom

It's interesting because when you talk about that, it's always so fascinating to me to see that need we go to we were in Ireland. Yep, Belfast and Dublin same situation and and my son sage is a huge History nut and especially particularly for him.

It's Christian history. That is the most meaningful and important and he's just he's a fiend about it and for him it was so special to be in Ireland to assist with what we were doing because he got to see the Monuments to what Christians built in history.

But one of the things that is important to note about that whether it's in London whether it's in Ireland. Whether it's in Australia even I mean Australia was started by Christians criminal Aspects in many ways, but essentially create the first things they were building were churches in Australia and even the United States of America not as much in terms of what's hanging around everywhere but these things are are monuments and symbols and names etched into stone and They are portrayals of a past.

But the important aspect of this is that those were not the things it was the belief behind it. It was the passion and zeal for God and his glory and his gospel and his law. That that created those monuments and symbols.

They were expressions of something that was not tangible and. What's amazing is that you look and say just and this is just for our own personal experience. Whether you had coming over here the Puritans the Huguenots you had all these people coming building Civilization out here like that.

We're building our town. We're this is what we believe and they were doing it from the bottom up like Jesus is Lord here in my home. He's Lord over here in my church. He's over here. Where we're doing a town hall like we're we're confessing Jesus as Lord.

They just understood that as a natural thing was that we confess Christ as Lord over all this. So it's it's what built the country. It's what laid the foundation of our of our freedom of speech and the justice that we used to have hanging by a thread in Many ways right now.

But the point is is that these things even down to our Constitution that you can hold in your hands. Like there's something behind that that gave it that like it exists as a monument. Because there was a belief system behind it that actually produced it it spilled it out but what's amazing you and I are talking about this before the show is that the demise of the culture today that we see is Specifically because it's specifically because there is a Fundamental operating belief system that has been promulgated and is and has been propagated now for decades.

And they're working hard and the educational institutions. It's been going on for a long long long time. It's not it hasn't happened in the last decade or in the last 20 years. We have hit a tipping point it a tipping point now is for sure now and the aggressive nature of it now I think it's because it's popularized and accepted and there's sort of like there's sort of a looking around going.

All right. We're at the point now where we can start being a little more violent. Where you know before and where there was a 60s and 70s there was sort of a of a slow You know still strong and and and zealous but a recognition that you can't all of a sudden start Standing out and propagating these things publicly.

You're gonna get in big trouble for it. I think there's been sort of a moment now looking around going. Okay, we can do it now. We can say it now and it's there's it's violent. So for example, you and I again, we're talking before the show and this will lead me into the discussion of Brian Sims Pennsylvania State Representative, so I didn't tell you this.

This is So jarring for me last night. I get home from from our ministry in Virginia last week. I'm super exhausted, but I wanted to spend time with a family and so him by the way, brother. What's that?

That's sermon. Oh, is it a blessing praise God? I I. This sounds weird, but I love hearing you preach but that was amazing. Oh, I was praying hard all I told the pastor Luke I was praying all day that day like Lord, please do something and yeah, it was it was it was a big deal for Me even so I get back.

I'm exhausted, but candy and I haven't seen each other a lot. So I was like, let's let's watch something. We love to watch together. So we are big Twilight Zone fanatics We love the Twilight Zone. We'll watch it the same episode over and over and over just for fun just because we enjoy it.

We'll enjoy watching it together the old Twilight Zone, right the black and white Twilight Zone.

I am just like color at some point didn't it? Did they. I don't I. I bought all of them years ago on iTunes.

I don't remember. I know in the 80s. There was like a movie remake. They may have that's I want to look that up. So I love to watch Twilight Zone. We love to watch it together. And so we were so thrilled when we heard that CBS was Doing the reboot of the series and Jordan Peele was doing that.

He's producing it or he's the executive producer of it and he's done some good things. He's very talented. He's you know done key and peel there were some inappropriate stuff but there are some good skits that tell a good story and they're funny and then he does us and The other film he did so he's very talented very skilled director and good at what he does.

But I've been noticing that everything that he puts out he has this very strong Liberal radical agenda that he's you can see if you know his worldview and what he's trying to do. You can see it and it's obvious so it makes me uncomfortable like well as talented as he is.

I can't support this I don't like it. So he's doing Twilight Zone and we're just flip like flipping our lids. I can't wait. So we've been watching him and we're not very impressed because it doesn't feel like the old Twilight Zone.

It's not very impressive. They haven't been very great, but you can notice in all the episodes. There's you see the agenda and it's this radical leftist liberal ideology and you can just feel it sense it see it.

So I get home last night. We're watching it and halfway through the episode. We're not impressed with it's not very entertaining. But halfway through it. There's a scene where there's two teenage boys.

You're supposed to be friends at least. That's what you think initially and now they're in a room together and they start making out two boys making out and it's Disgusting. Yeah, and so what we do our response was immediately turn it off.

And so we go from turning it off now, we're bummed. We're like now we can't watch this series. This is this is so frustrating. So I said, let's just let's just watch the old Twilight Zone. She's like, okay.

So we go back to the old black-and-white 1950s early 60s and I pull up just a random episode. We just hadn't clicked on yet I click it now. I just watched the one from 2019 the most famous one. Yeah, and so I click I click on it and it's just a random pick I hadn't seen it yet.

And it's the woman with Michael Goldmill. He was Mick and do you have the title on that? Because I don't have I don't know the title of I was looking for that. No, I know it which one it is. So the contrast we just turn off French kissing between two 15 year old boys.

Yeah, I now pull up which is a generation ago the Twilight Zone black-and-white. I pick a random episode. Just click on it and as soon as it starts the whole premise is the state actually thinks it's God.

Well, and it's mocking the that's for this episode. That's what's so treacherous and evil the state thinks. It's God like people in the 50s were like, you know. Like how gross is that and like it's like Demas like like Oh bow to the state.

And so Michael Goldmill has the scene in it and candy and I just look at each other. We're just in awe of the contrast of one generation the same show. One is just force-feeding you this leftist radical liberal ideology.

Here's two young boys French kissing and now you go to Mick from Rocky. Yeah, there's like three minutes in the middle where it's him reading the Psalms. It's just him reading the Psalms and he's the good guy.

He's the good guy the state's trying to persecute while he's reading the Word of God and the whole premise as the guy ends the show is like Wouldn't this be horrible? Oh, yeah, like if we ever had this in our future where the government.

There's like one plain man or something like that. Yeah.

We would just had a candy and I had like a 20-minute conversation afterwards of how Unbelievable it is that we are now here in the toilet in the twilight. Amazingly and that's just a generation apart and I can't now I can't even watch the twilight zone with my children.

Because here's the thing the theology and the ideology the ethical system that undergirded even that even those episodes in some respects is not now in the new and I can't even allow my family to watch these episodes and.

And so you you you're losing even these beautiful expressions of art and and and film and and and Acting and we can't even have that anymore and I just it just it's so shocking to me.

Well, it's because the the heart and soul that gave rise to the monuments that your son was saw in in Ireland that meant so much to him and that gives rise to the beauty of Artistry and things like that that has been purposefully maliciously Replaced with something that has no capacity in of itself to create that beauty Because of its disconnection with the Creator Because it cannot promote life It cannot push us toward the expression of our God-given talents.

It can't produce those things so it has to it has to find its excitement someplace else in blatant acts of sexual deviancy or whatever else it might be right and That's what we are trading. What's what's the term in Romans chapter 1?

They exchanged. Yes, they exchanged and That's what our society is doing. It has done I mean, we've we've been saying it's ongoing but in many ways for many people it's a completed act. We've already made that Exchange and the exchange was a bad one.

We've exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for that which is corrupted and can only produce more corruption.

Romans 1, Cultural Exchange, and Artistic Decline

I like how you said that. That's actually really that's Romans 1. I don't know. I can't Like how you applied that in terms of even thinking about like art and film. Yeah, like in terms of you can't your worldview can't create something really beautiful and Entertaining and interesting and thought-provoking truly deeply from an image bearer of God perspective thought-provoking.

So what do you have to do is you have to make something that that appeals merely to the flesh?

It's just the nakedness and the sexual access. Yeah, look at some of the greatest literature written by non-christians that we've enjoyed reading the themes. Were not derived from an anti-christian worldview.

They're derived from a Christian world. They may have been borrowed stolen may not even been something the person intended to do. But because of when they were written and what their background was they were still drawing from that.

They bar had to borrow capital they borrowed capital. So once you don't have that anymore. We don't have Bach's and Beethoven's anymore there's there's a reason for this you when you have people creating music based upon discord and Disharmony, it's coming from and I'm just going back to Schaefer, man I mean This is just a you know.

This wasn't all that long ago that he was pointing out these these very very things and I sort of cut my teeth on that in seminary. But it we are seeing it and now it's just getting to a gross level when you when you have to turn off a TV show 15 minutes in because they're throwing this in your face, but as we most of us heard have heard over the past few days California has every state on either of the coasts is producing educational guidelines that are just straight up Introducing down to the point of kindergarten the Rejoicing in and celebration of every form of human Depravity and rejection of God's law that you can have especially in regards to your sexuality.

So introducing Teaching kindergartners to be confused as to who is little boy and who is a little girl. This is what is now considered to be good in our society. And this is not the first time we've seen this in history.

But if we know anything about history, we know that every culture that has ever done this. Are the cultures that we go visit the ruins of right when we go on holiday? Yeah, that's right. And we think that can never happen to us.

But again for Christians Mike and I just I just find many Christians to go it can't happen to us this is America and the very idea that God could say, you know what I'm going to center the growth of my kingdom someplace else and I'm going to allow you to become a mission field because Your people love darkness.

Yeah, they love Rebellion if you love darkness and rebellion. You're going to reap what you're gonna what you're what you're selling. That's just Doesn't history show us this doesn't it show it to us over and over and over again, but who studies history anymore, right?

Who learns anything from history and when you think about it? It's only the Christian view of history from which you could learn anything. Because if there isn't any purpose if there is no decree of God, there's nothing to learn from history.

Anyway, it's just a bunch of random acts. Anyhow, can you talk about that for just a second in terms of because I think that would hopefully Bolster some excitement in terms of like maybe I should get into this and start studying like what God has done in history when you Talk about like the meaning of Christian history and studying that because it actually is meaningful and purposeful.

Like what are you? What are you? What are you getting at when you say that? Well.

You have to realize we we have imbibed an understanding of history That was very much created by a biblical narrative in Scripture. God has a people he those people have a history that history becomes the narrative out of which the exhortation of the Prophets, you know.

Look what God has done in the past look at the the blessings of God in the past and the punishment upon the people for Their sins that means these things were purposefully get in the New Testament. What does Paul say in Romans chapter 15 these things were written?

What for our benefit for our example that we might learn from those who came before us so on and so forth. And so there is purpose in history because God's unfolding his purposes. He has he's gonna wrap all things up in Christ.

Jesus Ephesians chapter 1 so when you when you consider all of that, that's very different than the pagan understandings of History where histories cyclical for example, it's just always going around around a circle and so you can't get out of it millions and millions and millions of people have lived and died on this planet thinking that the Future is gonna be like the past and the past would like the future because we're all in cycle.

That's right. There's there's nothing the the specific idea of history moving toward a conclusion and a purpose is very much a biblical Christian concept that then went out from the faith to the entire society and so for Christians especially I've always thought that one of them I Appreciate certain elements of fundamentalism but one of the worst impacts of fundamentalism is that the vast majority of fundamentalists have no interest whatsoever in church history at all and That's there is an arrogance to that that is really stunning when you sit back and think about it.

The Spirit of God's been active for 2 ,000 years, but there's nothing I can learn from that, right? When you really sit back and think about it's just like wow. That is that is shocking. But but many people really view church history as a if I've got some room a bunch of extra time sometime.

Maybe I'll I'll look into it. But when you really think about it If God has been building his church all this time Don't you think we could learn from those who've come before us now what the fundamentalist says is bad just a bunch of Roman Catholics I can't learn anything.

Okay, they don't study church history. Well, yeah, and and I understand I mean, I'm Dealing with some stuff right now where there are people in reform circles. There is a history of people even with a solid reform theology becoming enamored Losing the balance on the other side right where scripture then becomes subjugated to the interpretations of people in the past.

So there's always a way to become imbalanced. Yes, one thing I've learned in a Christian life is Doesn't matter what new truth you discover you can become imbalanced about that one, too. That's right.

I mean Christian maturity is Learning to be balanced in your life and none of us ever Fully arrive in this in this in this experience we have here. So but The point is that when you do discover Church history you start realizing wow, you know, the church has been persecuted from the start why don't we look at the ways that they've responded and Figure out what was good figure out what was bad because we might be facing it ourselves before long, right?

We it seems like in the West we're bumbling and stumbling Into what is clearly going to be a period of persecution without ever stopping to go, huh, I wonder if we can get some wisdom from the people who came before us and.