Street Witnessing in Tempe Arizona to 3 LDS Members

For example, Jesus. As Christians, we believe that Jesus was God. He was God in human flesh. He is God who became a man. Who lived among us. He has been the eternal God. But Mormonism says that Jesus was God's firstborn son.

That he literally was the literal firstborn son of God and he became a... That he literally came into being at one point in time. He was an eternal God. And that literally... And also that him and Satan are brothers.

Christ the Creator Versus Mormon Teaching on Jesus and Satan

But the only problem is as Christians... Well, here's the thing. Actually, the Bible says that Jesus created all things. Including Satan. That's a problem though. Because if Satan was... If Jesus and Satan are brothers according to Mormonism, then according to Colossians 1, it talks about Christ.

It says all things have been created by Christ and for Christ. Whether it be thrones, powers, principalities or powers. That Christ created all those things including Satan. So there's another big example of a difference.

God as Spirit, the Book of Mormon, and the LDS View of Salvation

And another big thing too is that the Bible says that God is spirit. But in Doctrine and Covenants, I think it's section... Do you read? Yes, I have. At school? Yes, I have. I've read Doctrine and Covenants before.

I was teaching in college. Great stuff. A little rusty on it though, but... Do you like a religion major or something? No, I just... Like I'm just curious like why... No, I went to a school that was 95 LDS.

What school? Heritage Academy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so I got really challenged and I had like a lot of huge discussions. That's interesting. Even for example, when you talk about what salvation is, it's like the terminology he was using.

In Mormonism, it says that Christ died... In Christianity, we say Christ died for the unjust. For people who are sinners. But in Mormonism, it says... The LDS Church teaches that Christ died for Adam's sin.

In fact, there's a verse in the Book of Mormon that says, Christ died for Adam that all men might be. What that means is that he died for universal salvation, which guarantees that every single person will be resurrected on the last day.

But everything else, as far as any salvation within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you have to go to either the celestial or terrestrial kingdom. And that requires going through rituals and temple ordinances and all those things.

But the whole purpose of the Mormon gospel isn't just about getting reconciled to God. It's about following those ordinances in order to become a god in the day. As Christians, we believe in a completely different gospel.

Loving LDS People While Warning About Another Gospel

And here's the thing. As a Christian, I love LDS people. I love the LDS community. I say we're loving and caring. But I would say that, with all my heart, that Mormonism is... They're wonderful people.

I plan on going to the polls voting for Mitt Romney, for example. I think, wonderful family, wonderful people. But when it comes down to... The Bible warns about certain things. It warns about another gospel.

There's false teachings and there's false gospels. In fact, there's even going to be other Jesuses besides the Jesus of the Bible. In fact, there's a verse in 2 Corinthians 11 that says, If anyone comes unto you and preaches to you another Jesus or another spirit, one whom you have not known, don't speak, don't follow after him.

And what we believe is that the LDS church and the LDS people, that you guys believe in a false gospel and a false Jesus. Because God's word is inherent. And the way that God reveals himself in a certain way.

The same way as if you... Do you have boyfriends? I'm married. You're married? Okay. Well, look at this example. In your marriage relationship, there's certain things about your husband that you know about him.

There's certain things that he knows about you. So that's part of having a relationship. You have to go by... You have to define... The relationship is based on who they are. And who they reveal themselves to be.

So, in the Bible, God reveals himself a certain way. For example, You know, talk about there being many gods versus like only being one God. There's a verse in the book of Isaiah. Isaiah 43 times. It says, That's what the God of the Bible says.

There's one of the teachings that Joseph Smith had. It's called the King Follett Funeral Discourse. And you can look this up online. This is one of the teachings that Joseph Smith taught. He said that...

He goes, You have said... It has been said to you that there is only one God. He goes, I would refute that idea. So you may know... I'm going to pull back the curtains that you may see. And he says that there are many...

He says, I'm going to preach... I'm paraphrasing it too. He says, I'm going to preach in the plurality of gods. And he goes on to attack the Christian faith, saying that they're completely wrong. And that there's numerous gods.

In fact, there's one of the Mormon prophets, Lorenzo Snow. He had a quote that says, As God is, man once was. And as God is, man may become. So, here's the thing. When God reveals himself in Scripture, and the whole idea with the Christian gospel is about having...

Being separated from God because of your sin. But the whole purpose of the gospel isn't just about having your sins forgiven. It's about getting God and having a relationship with him. But God reveals himself in a certain way.

That says, I'm Lord and there's only one God. God says, Is there another God besides me? I know not any. So, when all of a sudden someone comes and claims to be from God, like a prophet, for example, the Bible actually gives an actual test for a prophet.

I don't know if you know this, but it's in Deuteronomy. God says that if there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and even if he prophesies stuff, even if he gets them right. Okay, I know there's like prophecies that Joseph Smith gave.

Obama, bro. Oh my God. Speaking of politics. But, where was I? I kind of threw you off my game for a second. The prophet Deuteronomy. Yeah, yeah. So, he says that even if he comes by and says, he predicts the future, he gets stuff right.

But he says, Okay, well now let's go after other gods. It says, Do not go after him for he is the Holy Prophet. So, when I was talking about the idea of relationship, that if your husband said, you know, you know about who he is, he goes, I'm this, this, and this.

And you go, no, no you're not. When you start saying about things that weren't true about him, it wouldn't be consistent with having a good relationship in that sense. And the idea is that God reveals himself in a certain way.

And so, when you look at, you know, like I said, going back to Battery. That's okay. Keep on going. So, Joseph Smith comes out and says those things. Then we look at what the Bible says in response to how God reveals himself.

It's something completely different. It's something completely different. So, as Christians, we have to say, we love you guys, but what's important is that the first commandment, one of the ten commandments, one of the first ones that says you should not have any gods before me, but it also says you should not make a graven image.

You should not make something. You should not make any idols. But what people don't realize is that it's not just like forming an idol or a statue. Like, that'd be kind of weird if we all started doing that right now.

We might be figuring it out. Like, we're not going to make a goal out of nothing. But the idea is that, like, when you, at the same time, when we come up with an idea of God that's not who he is in the Bible, that's, basically, it's our knowledge.

And I would say this to you guys, like, in whole life, in sincerity, that what the Mormon Church believes about God, what it believes about Jesus, it's one of the moral people, but it's a knowledge. Because God reveals himself in a very specific way in the Scripture, but the Mormon Church does not hold that.

They preach something that's completely different. Have you been to Mormon Church just yet?

Yes. Have you? How many times? Like, the whole thing?

I've been to several different Mormon churches. Have you? Yeah, I've been down to the temple. Have you been to the Visitor Center? Have you watched any of their videos? Yes.

Have you watched, like, the Joseph Smith video and, like, the ones about Christ? Have you been there at Christmastime? Do you watch, like, the birth and whatnot? Or, like, the birth and Christ? I usually don't go in there.

Usually, as a church, we actually go there. Not within the church. Not protesting. Not protesting. Having discussions like we are now. Come listen to us together. And let me make this point, too, is that something that came to mind, too, is that the whole, like, the central story of the LDS Church is that in the 1800s, there's a boy named Joseph Smith who saw all the churches arguing.

They weren't sure which church was true, right? They weren't sure which church he went out to pray, and then God came down and said, all the other churches are wrong. We need to form a true church. And so the central piece of, here's the thing, is that we're, Christians aren't necessarily, I mean, of course, there's people that are going to be out there that are unloving and will say, I've seen them out there who say unhateful things about the Mormon Church.

Now, I don't, I don't think that's at all. But at the same time, the whole premise, Christians going out and reaching out to the LDS community and standing up and pointing these things out isn't so much more an attack than more of a response to what the LDS Church has said about other churches.

The whole foundation of the LDS Church is that all the other Christian churches and everything else are, I mean, God tells Joseph Smith, according to Mormonism, that all the creeds are corrupt, that all their creeds are an abomination, not right in my sight.

All of them are corrupt, and don't go after any of them because they're completely wrong.

Why We Go Out to Speak to LDS Members

So can I ask you, like, when you come and you protest, like, what are you trying, are you trying to convince people not to be Mormon?

I'm just wondering what your point is. The whole purpose, we don't, like, when we go out there, it's to talk to anyone. And we're not talking, we're not going out there to say, hey, you're wrong, I'm right, you're wrong, end of conversation.

That's not the purpose of it. The purpose of it is that that we want to have people to understand what the real gospel is. That we are completely separated from God and that we're sinners. And it's not just about, like, we need to be reconciled because we're in God's shapes because we broke in God's commandments.

But only, only... In John 17, there's a story where Christ is praying to the Father. There's a verse where Christ says, He says, this is the eternal life. He goes, this is the eternal life to know the only true God in Christ whom you have sent.

So it's not just the fact that... It's not just we want to say, hey, you know, you're wrong or whatever. But we want the LDS people to say, no, only a false Christ can't save you from your sins. You need to be reconciled to God as He reveals Himself in Scripture because the Mormon gospel can't save you.

And I'll tell you this, like, we know tons of people who we've had great conversations with. And this is the thing, as a Christian, look, what I believe is that every single person apart from the grace of God is completely dead in their sins.

So in no way am I, do I have the ability to convince anyone or anybody of anything. All we do is we preach the gospel out, and God sometimes will move, and He'll work in the spirits, and He'll choose to save some and to others, you know, their hearts get parted.

But to answer your question, the purpose of it is to lovingly tell the LDS people to say, listen, this is who Christ is. This is who Christ really is. This is who God reveals Himself to be. And we need to come, we need to get reconciled to Him because the ability to get reconciled to God is not, there's not, within the framework of the doctrine of the LDS Church, there's no way possible for that to happen because the LDS Church teaches a different God than is revealed in Scripture.

In Christ, that's revealed, that Joseph Smith taught, and the other prophets, all the other prophets today in time is different than the Christ taught. The Bible says Christ has been eternally God. The Mormonism says that Christ was God's Son and came into being at one point in time.

And there's numerous scriptures where you can, I could point you to one, but, and also, the idea of salvation, it's not, the idea with, again, just to make a difference, it's not that, it's not about being, I mean, the idea of salvation is not about trying to find, I'll say, for example, a Mormon husband being sent to the temple and hopefully he'll call out your name on the last day and you can become a God if you want to plan.

That's the Mormon gospel. The biblical gospel says, no, this is us, we are, we're dead in our trespasses and sins, and we need God to make us alive. And if we weren't created, we were not, God, and there's, back to the book of Isaiah, there's a verse where God says, He says, bring my sons and daughters from afar for my glory, whom I have created, whom I have made.

So, we're all created for the purpose. We're created to love God, know Him, and treasure Him, and be in relationship with Him forever. But that's what we are created for, that's what we long for, and that's what the whole idea of God being Trinity is.

But we don't believe that we're going to become gods of our own planets. We're becoming gods because you have to be God-like to live with God. So you can't live with God unless you yourself are God-touching or non-holy.

So you're becoming gods to be able to live with Him. So we're not becoming gods of our own planets. We're just becoming gods so we can live with God.

The Book of Mormon Challenge, Testing the Spirits, and a Final Appeal

You should go to Mormon church again. When you read the book of Mormon,.

Did you take the challenge at the end to pray about it? Well, the thing is, the book of Mormon, I know it's a verse you're referring to at the end of Mormon. I've seen how they say that. They say to pray, and if you feel the Spirit, then you know it's true.

But here's the thing, though, is that, just real quickly, is that the test that God gives is that, again, God's standard for truth is what His Word says in the Bible. And everything, every standard of truth has to be held against that.

Remember Christ said, Sanctify them by thy truth. Thy Word is truth. So even if... So here's the thing. Even if I supposedly had a spirit testifying to me, I'll phrase it this way in Galatians. Paul says it this way.

He's talking about false teachers that are coming to the church. I'm sure you've got to get going somewhere. We'll have parking spots next time. Okay. No, but he says this. He says if you or... He says if you...

He's talking to the church there. He goes, but if even we or... I'll phrase it from the beginning. He goes, I'm astonished that you are so quickly going to... going after another gospel, a different gospel.

He goes, listen to me. Let me say this. He goes, but if even us, or even an angel from heaven comes preaching another gospel, let it be eternally condemned or not. So here's the thing. Even if you get some sort of spirit testifying that, for example, Joseph Smith is true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and the Book of Mormon is true, but the Scripture says something completely different, that Joseph Smith fails the test of a prophet, which he did.

If you look at what the Scripture reveals to you about who God is, or what Joseph Smith said, then that spirit that testified to you is not the spirit of God. Because the Bible says specifically that there are false spirits.

It says to test the spirits. It says to test the spirits. And I'll end it on this, is that I would strongly urge you guys, and I've read the Book of Mormon, I've read a lot, a lot of Mormon literature, but here's the thing.

I've known numerous Mormons, people who have come out of Mormonism, who've come to a saving relationship with Christ, and I would say take... I would say look at what... Look at God, who He really reveals Himself to be in the Bible.

You're going to see only one God. I've read the Bible. But...

Well, we have to go. We have to go. We appreciate your loving way of doing it. Thank you so much. I will probably always be more, not probably, for sure I'll always be more, but I appreciate the loving way that you do it.

So thank you for having me on the crew. Okay, absolutely.