Open Lines: Sanctification, Auburn Avenue, James 5:19-20

Technical Setup and Opening Banter

Hey, have you ever noticed these these clocks adjust date time there? It is is your clock as bad as as my clock is my clock is really bad. And it's just now 201 it thinks it's 202, and I I think that's just terrible thing, so I'm gonna fix it there.

Apply. Okay, there you go. I wonder why they can't you know in this these advanced ages. Why can't your clock on? Your motherboard keep accurate time. I mean this thing's got that. You know I could do the atomic clock thing in my Bobby wobble on it, but yeah I know your sink with atomic clock, and I have an atomic clock sitting in front of me, but the computer clock is the issue and Unfortunately the computer clock atomic thing program.

I've got can't find our stupid gateway. So it it goes running off and and yeah, it says you're not on the internet. I'm on the internet the whole time. Oh, hey, are we on the air? Hey there we go?

Oh.

Hey, you know it's it's open line. Cuz you didn't. Hey I did configure it right and the network Administrator has never quite figured out how to make Windows 2000 you know. Understand this stuff cuz you know what can I say?

He's not quite as advanced as the current technology is can you imagine if we had an XP unit in here? Gracious anyways oh. Yeah, so so tired of Utah's Mac OS 10 has the ability to sync with the time servers built-in.

Yeah, but it can only run three programs. So what does that matter? Anyways, I think we're supposed to do a program today. 877 -753 -3341 is the phone number and If you don't call that phone number today, this is going to be a very long 90 minutes.

That's all I can say okay. Because I was asking folks so what do we could talk about today? We're gonna talk about today, and I really don't know what to talk about today actually because. Basically I've spent the past week doing two things.

Writing the responses the second round well. Actually, it's the first round of responses. It's the second round in writing on The book with Dave hunt and everybody's going. What's the title of the book?

I don't know ouch ouch. Yeah, that could be that could be a good title actually that was my hamstring cramping up there. There's a Jesuit spy in our midst who is trying to kill me. One joint at a time.

I've got plantar fasciitis in my left foot. Light sprain in my right foot now. I've got tennis elbow and the right elbow and I won't tell you who it is, but you don't want to hear him sing Elvis actually I don't want to hear him sing anything.

I've actually you can't hear him sing anything because he doesn't sing loud enough to hear it anyways. Which is probably a good thing, but head coverings ah there you go. There's there's a there's a topic sure.

We're gonna have syzygous call in now, and he's going to discuss head coverings. He just volunteered to do that so. What's the way for the baby crying? Oh shut up anyways. What in the world was I talking about oh?

Yeah, before the hamstring cramp there ouch I'm not sure what the title this books gonna be and I can guarantee you about the only about the only thing and pretty much guarantee is that the term Calvinism is gonna appear in there someplace other than that.

I don't know and I don't really care one way or the other but Because I'm really not big into titles. I've only titled a couple of my Couple of my books myself, but anyways, that's the main thing I've been doing and I've tried to do one response each day.

I missed one day. So I got five done. I have six and seven yet to write. I know what six is gonna be. I have to cram all of my exegesis of acts 1348 well actually just Correction of the errors that mr. Hunt makes on x 1348 and then all my exegesis of John 316 plus one short little response all into 2 ,000 words now.

If you don't know what 2 ,000 words is if you have a word processor try just starting writing something you could you know talk about? Your childhood whatever. Three and a half pages in not even three and a half pages in.

You will run out of 2 ,000 words. I mean, it's just not that. That's it's not a lot of material. It really isn't 2 ,000 words is very short and. So you've really for me that has been very challenging to try to communicate something clearly.

In that space of time, it's it's very the space of well. It's not time, but you know what I mean anyways. That's the main thing I was doing the other thing. Now at this point we need to ask Pete who is in channel right now.

Who is one of our ops and and by whose wonderful Offices we are doing this program right now. We're very very thankful to to Pete For allowing us to do this but Pete needs to turn his sound down for a few seconds because the other thing I was doing was Getting things set up and transferred over to my palm tungsten tea.

That's a PDA for those of you don't know. It's a wonderful PDA. Hey the phone rang people want to stop me from talking.

Oh.

Well, that's interesting y 'all hear that. Is that here. Let me let you hear that. In that in that cool. Isn't that neat now? Why in the world is the office calling me? I'm not gonna answer the office.

I think someone's trying to call me on my cell phone, and it's the office calling me on my cell Phone. That's really weird. I'm gonna move the microphone over here, okay?

Oh.

Someone's on line one. Okay. I'm picking up line one. There I took the forwarding off of line one so it won't call my cell phone anymore. You know one missed call. Well, you know I know I missed that call and it's okay that I missed that call.

It's alright. I'm gonna put that back in there. Anyways the palm tungsten tea is a wonderful PDA and The main reason I got it was not because my visor professional was not doing what I was supposed to do.

Very very simple. I couldn't see the screen in certain lighting conditions. I just I tried everything I could and I couldn't see it and the tungsten tea has an awesome TFT 64 K color screen and it works really great.

So anyways I could talk about those two things we could talk about how to squish All sorts of things into only 2 ,000 words and hopefully make it understandable or we could have another discussion of PDAs and Does anyone know if dr. White has written or debated about the regulative principle of worship and Christmas.

Christmas, the Incarnation, and the Regulative Principle

Ah. That that's interesting. Certainly there were. There were many Puritans who disliked Christmas but I will take all comers on that subject because I love Christmas and everyone who has tried to Convince me that somehow there's something wrong in celebrating the Incarnation of Christ.

I.

I've not found them to be overly consistent in their argumentation. So Hey the phone doth ring again, but that one's not going to my my cell phone this time. Not sure where it's gonna go but anyways, I Love and in fact one of the biggest problems I have had over the past number of years is I've been so busy during the holiday season that it just comes and goes and I have lamented a number of times.

I've looked around I used to hear about About here in the Phoenix area people getting together and singing The Messiah handles Messiah and you just bring your score with you. I have two fully full scores for the Messiah and I would love to find where if that's gonna happen anywhere in Phoenix.

Someone is gonna do this where everybody gets together and you sing the Messiah. I mean, it's just Incredible Music it's just beautiful and I love love handles Messiah and Pete and Canada wants to hear about the doctrine of sanctification in its entirety.

That's that's good. Yeah, that's wonderful. Anyways, it's just it just goes too fast. The holiday season goes by so fast the older and older you get and I'm really doing that Online now line one. So this is an actual phone call.

Entire Sanctification and the Wesleyan View of Sinlessness

Pete in Canada Wants to hear about the doctrine of sanctification in its entirety. Line one waiting. I don't hear anybody waiting. I Still hear nothing. Who is this this is Pete. This is Pete this is this is Martha.

What you called me for that was that was a bad representation of my question.

Oh.

What question. Oh Pete. And Canada wants to hear about the doctrine of sanctification in its entirety. I just read exactly what he's like. It's a little cold up there in Canada, huh?

Actually, we're looking at about minus nine.

So Oh entire sanctification and you it says entirety right there in in its entirety. Okay. Well, you know that changes the question completely yes.

It does. I have a friend who's a very close friend very dear friend a member of the Church of the Nazarene Extremely Wesleyan and it's theology and One of the things that he mentioned to me that I am NOT overly familiar with is this doctrine of entire sanctification.

Now what that speaks to me is it's.

Precisely what Rome teaches about sanctification? I'm wondering if you could. No, it's not. No, it's not what Rome. No, I.

I.

Will let me start by saying first of all, this is not an area that I've done any reading on outside of just general Theological comparisons of various and sundry groups, so I don't want anybody flooding us with emails going well, you need to read this and you need to read that because I'm interested but As my understanding is that there are groups.

And it's frequently tied to the concept of a second blessing where in essence the the bent to sinning is Removed that's what entire sanctification is and hence it's basically the experience of Sinless perfection in one's life that is a result of this this second blessing.

That a person no longer experiences any desire for sin and has experienced the fullness thereof of sanctification has been set apart and Made holy and that this is what a person is to be seeking to obtain.

Is this? Almost, you know the Christian version of nirvana. Shall we say? Where you no longer have this desire for for sin at all in this life. And so It results in in sinless perfection a BB Warfield addressed at least the concept of perfectionism Rather fully in one of his I have his collected works and he has a has a work on that subject.

But since I think in all my years of ministry, I've like run into one person That that ever raised the issue. It's just never been something that I've taken a time to actually read any of the original Writings that promote it and that's why I don't talk about it much as if I don't Listen to what someone's saying or read their own perspectives I'm a little bit hesitant to just go on these summaries that I've Heard in seminary or you know read in a general basic introduction to theology type textbook somewhere else.

So so you're telling me I have to do my own work.

Well, you know, I'm I'm getting somebody in channel has really Rubbed off on me and basically when people come in asking me to You know to do stuff for him. I basically start off by saying well first of all, I don't give a rip and Yeah, basically it would be good to do your own homework.

No, I I just honestly don't. Don't run into folks that promote that it's not really big out here. And so I I can't give you much more than that. I mean, like I said Warfield's Stuff on perfectionism would probably still be just as valid today as it was about a hundred years ago.

Well, the Church of the Nazarene has a big big following up here. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's.

Oh, yeah, so exactly. Why are you there?

Why am I in Canada? Yeah, because we're bigger than you.

Well, yeah, I guess in a in a in one sense you are but you know, that's like that's like. And I like to go to parties and boast about my huge landmass. Ah, you're huge Matt. Oh landmass. Okay. All right all right, I Didn't quite understand to get a little static in the headphone there.

So well, thank you for calling from the 51st state and we appreciate that and Thanks, sir. All righty. God bless. Bye. Bye. Oh eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one. Let's see how many?

How many more? Questions we can ask that I just simply go die. Now I haven't the foggiest idea what this next call is about I'm gonna read it as it's been put on the screen. This person wants to talk about, New Jersey, Old Testament Regeneration now, I don't remember, New Jersey in the Old Testament.

So What what is what is New Jersey? How did could you Steve? Could you tell me the relationship between New Jersey and the Old Testament? I think the question is coming from, New Jersey. Oh Okay, all right, well I just.

That's it I quit that's exactly what just appeared on my screen is that's it I quit. Well, hey, I would like you all to sit in this chair sometime and try to figure out what Steve space dash space, New Jersey NJ space OT space Regeneration means, you know, okay.

I'd like to see y 'all try that. Okay. Okay, Steve from, New Jersey. You'd like to know about Old Testament regeneration, let me give you a little background.

Or the reason I have the question and by the way, I can sympathize with your plantar fasciitis. I've had the same thing.

It's it's tough to get old particularly when you get up in the morning, you know. Well, it's it depends on it really it comes and goes and it depends. I never know when it's gonna hit and it's just it's almost like I've just developed a pain that moves from one body part to Another body part.

It's just sort of a reminder. I think from the Lord that we do not live forever.

Yes, well, I've got two young children. I'm in my mid 50s. One of them is in a karate class and I'm in the class with him.

So I wear a brace on my knee. I got oh, yeah. Oh the braces man the ace bandages all that stuff. It's. It's sad, but anyways, what's the background here? Okay several months ago.

I called you and I had made them ask the question and it was on Psalms 119 and the role of the excuse me.

Excuse me. Hold on a second Steve. Did what was it on?

On Psalms 119.

Okay, Steve. I'm sorry, but I'm I'm gonna have to let you know about one of my pet peeves. Yeah. There's no such there's no such thing as Psalms 119 there is Psalm 119. So if the music minister gets up in your church, and he says turn to what does he say?

Does he say to hymns? 178 or to him 170. Got me there.

Just I should know that my father's a classical organist.

Oh, well, not only that but you know the thing that really bugs me. Oh my wife. Just told me in in channel. Be nice dear.

I.

Cut him some slack is what a omen just said. All right folks. Come on. It's one of my pet peeves, especially when computer programs do it. I have computer programs and I'll say get me this reference and it asserts it as Psalms.

Whatever and it's like no, it's some one not Psalms. Anyways, I'm sorry. I have now taken you completely off track. Do you remember what you were gonna ask? Yes. Okay, Psalm 119, okay.

But then again, I Didn't I didn't confuse psalms in New Jersey.

Hey, I'm just reading what's in front of me man, you know, what can I say?

Anyway, it was on the hundred and nineteen psalm and About the role of the law in the Old Testament and you had responded how we in the New Testament can Relate to the psalmist. Oh, yeah. Okay, what. Right.

And the issue came up and I sort of repeated what you said and the response well, nobody was Regenerated in the Old Testament. They were all spiritually dead. Yeah, and that's the thing and we talked a little bit about that and I was just curious What would be a good way some of the some ways you might respond to that to show that people were regenerated, you know.

Obviously we can turn to I guess it's Romans 8 and that you wouldn't even have the slightest desire to Want to do to comply with the law of God Unless you are spiritually alive.

Well, I think that's coming from the New Testament. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Well, we're using we're using New Testament terminology, but I I think the main thing I would go to is the fact that we draw some of our key pictures of Regeneration from the Old Testament, for example in Ezekiel.

When.

Which is you know, Ezekiel 36 Jeremiah 31 both drawn from very heavily. By New Testament writers by the Lord Jesus when he talks in Nicodemus, for example. He draws from that Terminology and hence it it has to be understandable to the people to whom it was spoken.

So when when the spirit blows across the valley of the of the dry bones and and brings life or when. You have that kind of a situation I I think you you clearly have that there and then you have the idea of the remnant and what what are the remnants?

What what is that? What are their characteristics? They are individuals who? Love. God love is truth. It's the same kind of things we encounter in the New Testament as well. So anyone who is who is going to be in love with with God's truth is going to be a person.

Who's experienced that? That kind of thing and and Jesus even talked about to Nicodemus and said it you're a you're a leader of Israel. And you do not understand this and so it was from his perspective.

It was this is not something new this is this is what the Old Testament was talking about when. When it's talked about. You're probably not in channel, but they're they're all mocking me for having having done that to you about Psalms.

So they're putting they're putting s's at the end of their necks just simply to. There was no reason to I was I was just trying to help you to understand. Anyways. What was I saying? Oh Jesus assumed that Nicodemus should know what he was referring to.

It wasn't like this is some new thing that never been heard of before so It would it would concern me. If someone said no one was regenerated in the Old Testament because I are they saying no one was saved or.

What it is is the group there is is rather charismatic, so they look at the spirit being.

Mmm, that's that's interesting too. I mean that's that almost makes me.

I.

Have seen I have commented at times that that there seems to be a reason why it's Charismatics and Pentecostals who have less trouble accepting oneness theology than others. There seems to be shall I say some Trinitarian imbalances amongst many charismatics and in my experience anyways.

Which would explain why? They can embrace a TD Jake's or a Phillips Craig and Dean and and the writers who are writing oneness music and things like that and putting it out Into quote-unquote contemporary Christian music because there's not a lot of understanding of the you know the True doctrines of the Trinity well doctrine at all is frequently, you know downplayed in those particular context.

But anyway doctrine that contradicts with them. They'll tell you they don't believe in doctrine.

Then they'll give you their own, but they just don't call it doctrine. It's what the spirit told me. Yeah, exactly you know doctrine is teaching so they have their teaching knowledge. There you go right?

That's probably where I'd go as far as Demonstrating otherwise and and saying no if If the natural man could do nothing that's pleasing to God After the cross and he could do nothing that's pleasing to God before the cross either.

It's it's not. It's not like something changed along the way so. All righty. Well now you look two things you got there. You got the answer to your question and You will never embarrass yourself by saying Psalms 119 again.

Just remember I'm older than you are. Like I said, I don't get even I get ahead. There you go, okay. Alrighty, man. I was at your last debate. Oh you were yeah in Florida. No. I'm sorry the one in July and.

Okay, cuz I've done. I've done one two. I've done three debates ever. Love them since then yeah.

I did six this year when you're getting out this way again. I January.

January January yep, I don't have the The stuff put together quite yet, but I know I know the last weekend in January the 25th and 26th I'll be doing the Youth retreat for Hope Reformed Baptist Church over in Tuscarora and then the night of the 26th I'll be speaking there at Hope Reformed Baptist and probably coming back here the 27th so I'll be headed out there probably like the 16th or 17th of January and I don't Yet know which churches. I'll be at but somewhere around there.

Do you ever think of taking your church history?

Putting it into sort of a seminar and condensing it to a weekend or something. I.

Have no idea why music just started in the background, but. Thank you guys people in the control room. Just lost the last functioning brain cell. Yeah, I mean there's lots you know I find that Fascinating and I like to.

I like to teach on it, and I can teach on in a way. That's interesting. Unfortunately getting people to come to it is is. And finding a church who would want to do it is the is the hard part it really is.

It's something that I know that our Christian Ed committee is thinking of doing. Oh well probably nine months a year from now. Sometime maybe next fall. We're just sort of batting around the idea right now.

But to have something on church history at the church and maybe have a seminar or something with it to tie it in during that.

Time. Cool. Well. Let me know if it's going to be some time when I'm that out that direction or if we could arrange something. Is that I? Love teaching church history. I really really really do.

I listen to the ones that you have on the on the on the on the phoenix reform Baptist site right. Mm-hmm. And. And Frank that that's a graduate level program 45 members in your 50 members in your.

53 members. Yes. But yeah, we have picked up some people that's right.

And I'm not part of it. My wife is from a reformed Baptist Church. I'm actually leave through an EV free church. You can go for free, but a lot of reformed people there right. And in fact We have a reformed Baptist Church nearby if we ever did something we draw a lot from that too.

Oh good good, okay?

Anyway excellent. Well, and maybe we can work something out. I mean there are there are things like on the Reformation and things like I just love lecturing on them. It's not it's not the dry Type stuff that you're a lot of folks think about.

History. I I just I've never understood how anyone can teach in such a way as to Bore people III if you teach and bore people then go do something else. I've. I had an awesome church history teacher in seminary, and he really got me jazzed on the subject and That's just the only way I know how to teach.

I try to teach Hebrew with passion. I mean, that's just you know that's just how it is so. Anyways, all righty. Thank you. Oh someone just adopted the Nick. Psalms 119 the channel. See what you started.

See what you started. Okay, I'm gonna take a break in meanwhile. I'm gonna kick Psalms 119 out of the channel and. Thanks for your call. God bless. Thank you all righty. Bye-bye. Oh we are having fun today.

Boink they're good. Psalms 119 just got kicked out of the channel.

Anyways.

Are we taking a break? Yeah? I guess we're taking a break that you know you guys in there you started the music Minutes ago, and and Steve just wants to sing I guess so we'll let him sing and take our break and answer your phone calls.

Right after this oh and welcome back to dividing line.

We are setting new records for zaniness today on the program not exactly sure why I guess that's what I get for opening up Phone lines you never know. Where we were just having a discussion in channel as to whether there were Eric Nielsen Who just the insights that this man will offer at times?

It just leaves me Breathless it truly does so just a few minutes ago he Nielsen wonders if Old Testament Saints in New Jersey could be entirely sanctified and I tell you I Don't know I I really I really do not know, but I do know what Eric Nielsen one day posted in channel and And I want to read you This it's sort of like a haiku type thing and we'll get to it.

We'll get to our next caller in just a moment, but This is this is what appeared on my screen under under E Nielsen's Nick. It says if they say to you the mammoth wears sunglasses Then you must reply it is the banana that cries in the night.

Are they Oakley's. If they say what is the light that shines really really bright say it is the light that once grew hair. If they reply, what is the Coogee you must say Pat Robertson knits alpaca sweaters?

That's that's what appeared on my screen, and I saved it and Anytime that I want to I can just type slash HEN and that appears in glowing colors on the screen, which is why I just did in channel and so if anyone ever wonders what happens to E Nielsen and How this so once mild-mannered?

Normal family man got to be the way he is who by the way we need to give Congratulations to to mr. Nielsen Because he's expecting number six the the sixth munchkin to the Nielsen clan Is is is coming our direction so congratulations to to E Nielsen and s Nielsen and I'm watching the reaction because you got to realize the channel.

Here's what I'm saying about 20 30 seconds after I say it and Excuse me while I stretch my leg out, okay? Boy at third set today just about killed me anyways what we're supposed to do we have a caller ready to go here I think we have a caller Ready ready to go here, and I've been told this will be a very Very serious question, so I need to get very serious in in answering in answering this question.

I have not been told what the What the subject of the question is, but I understand that it has to do with the possibility of how we should view the joining of the genetics of humans and arachnids and I Hear I hear giggling somewhere.

I'm trying to be very serious here and someone's someone's giggling so Anyway, so let's take our caller from all I know is back east somewhere. And is that is that was that the question that you wanted to ask ma 'am?

Well there would be theological implications, I think to the contemplation of spider-man, but Hopefully that's not what you were calling about actually.

Auburn Avenue, New Perspective, and Federal Vision Concerns

What I wanted to ask was Basically with what's been going on lately concerning Auburn Avenue and everything like that. I've heard the terms You know with with the covenants coming up. And I've also heard the term new perspectivism coming up with with regard to that night.

I know that there have been several less of us in channel that have been just Really curious as to what's going on with that and so I was wondering what you have found out about that so far.

Well, I think I've told everybody in channel everything. I know about it. Do you have anything else no? Obviously many folks who Are listening or going either? What are you talking about or yeah? I'd like to find out or the people in channel go.

Yeah, you already talked about that at least in channel because we have talked about a bit in in channel. But to catch everybody up to speed You could go to sermon audio .com. And I think if you search, I'm not sure if if Auburn Avenue links to those particular sermons but I have listened to a question answer section and Three of the presentations that were made Earlier this year at the Auburn Auburn Avenue.

I believe it's Presbyterian Church is the full name. I could be wrong about that, but anyways At a pastor's conference some of the people who spoke were Douglas Wilson Steve Schlissel Fell the last name of Barack.

My understanding is Norman Shepard was supposed to be there and for folks who don't know who Norman Shepard is Norman Shepard was dismissed from Westminster Seminary for teaching a doctrine of justification That was deemed to be Outside of the norm for a Presbyterian Seminary and outside of the norm of Protestant Orthodoxy shall we say and so the fact that he was even invited to speak there is rather interesting and so I've listened to as I said about four sections from that.

Okay, someone Thank You syzygous just posted if you will search under the keyword of pastors conference. Then you'll be able to come up with That particular those particular things on sermon audio. I listened to Barack's Brock His talk yesterday on Covenant and election.

I've listened to Wilson's presentation on the curses of the New Covenant and Seemingly the relationship and and since I haven't listened to all of it. I'm a little bit hesitant. It's my understanding that a very small Presbyterian group has actually condemned The speakers as heretics for what they taught at this particular conference and did so fairly soon after it took place, which is rather intriguing and interesting, of course, but My understanding is that the the connection that exists with new Perspectivism and supposedly should define that we've talked about in the program briefly in the past but that goes back to Really a view of modern scholarship.

EA Sanders Really very important in the development and popular popularization of it. NT Wright is one of the main proponents of that today. It's it's basically an idea that that says that Justification by faith was really a part of Paul's apologetic to keep the church together.

It's not really definitional of the gospel in any way shape or form. And it's really only for Gentiles he only emphasizes for Gentiles in reality Jews can be saved under the Old Covenant and Just basically we have misread Paul thanks to reading Paul through the lens of Luther and Calvin and individual justification.

Person's relationship to to God via justification is really not what Paul was really concerned about. Instead he was concerned that there be one Christian Church and hence he emphasized That there can't be a Jewish Christian Church and a Gentile Christian Church that were all made right before God in one way, which up to that point is true, but because of importing some ideas about the views of Judaism in what's called second temple Judaism, that is the Judaism the days of Jesus and Paul.

The idea is that the Jews had a much higher view of grace than at least we have understood them to have mediated through Paul's writings. Now I point out that those who originally started developing these things did not believe in such concepts as inerrancy.

They didn't believe that you have to actually Harmonize your interpretation of Paul with maybe Peter or Jesus or anybody else? They in fact would say that you don't you can't even harmonize Paul at that at that point.

And so it to see news to see their work become the foundation upon which other work is done. And then that's seeping into Conservative churches where there's a much higher view of scripture bothers me because people aren't aware of what the background to these things really Really comes from but anyways, it really is a an artificial And I would say extra-scriptural Paradigm that is forced upon Paul's writings and as a result this new perspective Tends to be a very similar to Roman Catholicism in its view of justification.

It tends to throw the final justification off to an eschatological perspective. Many of these people develop very much the idea of doing works that that then merit this eschatological justification and So it's it's obviously something that should be very Very much concern to people in regards to the fact that it's becoming more and more popular.

But I think the connection between that and the things that I heard In the Auburn Avenue, for example yesterday when I listened to to Barack's Presentation he was talking about election and in essence he The idea is it comes from a Presbyterian view of the Covenant and the New Covenant.

From my perspective as a Reformed Baptist the the error that the Presbyterian makes here is reading the New Covenant as if it's the old and The distinctives of the New Covenant are are in essence wiped out the the betterness the the term better used in in of course the book of Hebrews is Turned into something other than truly better on an on a real scale of being different.

Instead as as Wilson has put it in one of his books on baptism. The New Covenant is better because there are more Regenerate people in it than there were in the Old Covenant. And I don't think that that's in any way shape or form what the writer of Hebrews is talking about.

I certainly don't think that Jesus's sacrifice is better than the sacrifice of bulls on any other level than being Different than those sacrifices of animals and so I believe the New Covenant is different because it's a covenant in his blood.

And I believe that a any meaningful exegesis of Hebrews chapter 8 that does not automatically start with a presupposition about the nature of the covenant a meaningful exegesis of Hebrews chapter 8 will lead you to believe that all those who are in the New Covenant the covenant in his blood who have Jesus Is their mediator Jesus is their intercessor that those are the elect of God?