Woke Religion with Tim Keller, Fulgentius of Ruspe on the Hypostatic Union

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Greetings and welcome to The Dividing Line. My name is James White. I've got a lot to get to today. I Remember when the

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The tsunami hit Japan a number of years ago the big earthquake and then the tsunami hit that was the first time

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I heard about a world event faster on Twitter than I heard about on television and And today we have this massive explosion in Beirut and now everybody and their third cousin is

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Posting stuff on Social media and What's interesting is there was the initial explosion and so everybody starts videotaping and so The huge what seems to me to be multi kiloton explosion

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That happened afterwards and evidently has broken every pane of glass for 50 miles

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I saw one taken inside a car and The windshield side windows everything shattered instantly by this thing's huge The numbers of deaths

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I've seen have been relatively small I have a feeling that's gonna change a lot unfortunately over the course of time but anyway

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That that was that was astonishing and The pictures coming out of the of the the port area now

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Wow that just it looks like nuclear weapon really really did so pray for believers in that area pray that the

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Lord would Would help and guide even the small churches that are in places like that and give them grace and strength at this particular point in time

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An amazing amazing thing that's taking place today This morning a friend of mine sent me some quotations

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I had seen the article pop up on my feed and Hadn't had the time to get to it.

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A lot of people are going to be getting to it. I'm afraid Over the next couple of days and and I'm not sure why

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I said I'm afraid I mean it's it's appropriate and properly so but if you

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Many people struggle with the idea that men from whom you have learned much in the past Men From whose ministry you have benefited are today speaking in a way where we now can really sense that There has been a

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No longer subtle Transformation of their vocabulary and their emphasis those who have become woke

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Who have embraced the categories of Critical theory power dynamics and are now

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Speaking into the same channels of teaching that they used 15 years ago to speak of the gospel and Biblical teachings and Christian doctrine are now using those same avenues

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To connect Biblical teaching in the gospel to things they never did only a few years before if your favorite

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Bible teacher and And don't don't go on emotion and feeling check the actual emphasis check the

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Check what they're really really saying If your favorite

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Bible teacher today is saying very different things than they did 10 to 15 years ago

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There might be a reason for it. There might be a reason for it and What's happening is you're you're getting a completely different lens placed over The Bible so the

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Bible is being read differently. We're being told that Everyone has an irremovable lens

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Provided by their culture and to see the problem is there's there's always an element of truth in every lie.

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There's an element of truth There is no question no question at all that you can provide

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Hours and hours of examples of where Americans Read The text of Scripture as if it is speaking to us in our day only we do it in eschatology

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We've done it in eschatology for a long long time American Christians will assume that everything that the

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Bible says is about us Americans assume pretty much everything is about us.

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I Was embarrassed by How much that is the case?

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but it is the very essence of The clips that are posted by the

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IFB preacher Twitter feed that You can provide hours of examples of people reading the

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Bible as if it were written last year primarily directed to Americans in the early 21st part in the early part of the 21st century

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There's no question about that But obviously if you did serious exegesis that would immediately

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Challenge so much of that if you were if you were first and foremost Concerned about the meaning that the author intended

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In writing to the audience that he was writing to in the language He was writing to in the day that he was writing to if you do the hard work of Consistently asking the tough questions of the text you can filter a lot of that out

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But even in application you're going to be dealing with That particular issue as well.

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You're all we do have lenses. There's no question about that But you see that's something completely different than saying there is no objective meaning of Scripture There's no way of knowing the objective meaning of Scripture.

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We've got to give up on that We have to listen to all these different voices and if you listen to the voices over here and that's gonna make you better that if you listen to the voices over there and and So on and so forth that that's that's a completely different thing.

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And that's where the confusion is coming in And so as you listen to people who you once found clear and compelling and Obviously if you're gonna come to the conclusion someone's changed you always have to raise the question have they changed or have

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I changed and If you can honestly Analyze yourself and go.

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No, I've resisted the cultural trends to Go the direction the culture is going and I really think this person.

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I just this person wasn't talking about power structures and and The the categories that he's using today.

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So once you conclude, yes, this person has indeed changed How have they changed and how is that impacting?

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Their current definition of the gospel. These are things that unfortunately we're all having to deal with The Critical theory is always designed to divide and to deconstruct.

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That's what that's it's that's its essence And so it can do that directly.

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For example, there was an excellent thread on Twitter today It was talking about people who are saying 2 plus 2 equals 5 and It was pointing out they're not saying

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That 2 plus 2 always equals 5 They're saying that 2 plus 2

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Can equal 4 it may almost always equal 4, but it doesn't always have to equal 4

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Sometimes in some context it can equal 5 and it's appropriate to say so This is called deconstruction

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It is meant to diminish your certainty as to the truthfulness of foundational issues now you all

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If you're even semi as geeky as I am You have been fascinated by the

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SpaceX stuff recently fascinated They they splashed down I think was that yesterday recently a splashdown from the space station and the mission went flawlessly and You know they landed exactly where they were supposed to land and The thing that just blows me away is they're reusing their booster rockets and These these babies turn around and come back and land on a ship in the ocean

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It's so cool. I mean that is just Awesome, but let me guarantee you something the engineers that designed that incredible system

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They may not live they may not personally live Consistently here

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But the engineers that build that system that can make those booster rockets land right back where they're supposed to land

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Know that 2 plus 2 equals 4 and if they even once Put into their calculations at 2 plus 2 equals 5

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The rocket will probably blow up it could or it's not gonna land it's gonna crash or whatever because Especially doing stuff like that when you have to you know, we just launched

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Another Explorer to Mars. That's so cool This one's supposed to have all sorts of cool neat equipment on it, and I hope it works.

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I think that is great stuff but the fact is They Assumed all the way through in their calculations of getting that thing built

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Launched and to land on that little spinning object hundreds of millions of miles away

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That 2 plus 2 equals 4 and if they put 2 plus 2 equals 5 and even once it'll miss

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Mars completely Total failure. That's not colonization.

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That's not white fragility. That's not white privilege. That's called mathematics And God made it that way 2 plus 2 can equals 5 and by the way, if 2 plus 2 can equal 5

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Fractals couldn't exist. Well the beautiful signs of God God's beautiful fingerprints in mathematics of 2 plus 2 equals 5 they're gone

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Doesn't work anymore Nothing works anymore. And So this is what deconstruction is

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You're deconstructing people's confidence that Fundamental objective foundational truths are just that truths and You're getting them to accept the idea of it.

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Well, okay, I suppose, you know I heard some scholars say that in certain circumstances 2 plus 2 might equal 5 well

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Then you're you're you're no longer talking about addition In the context in which we're speaking which is the addition of 2 plus 2 it always equals 4 now if you want to come up with imaginary numbers if you want to put it in the event horizon of a black hole or Something like that.

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You're no longer talking about the same thing. You're playing with language and That's exactly what people that's exactly what critical theory does as well is it plays with language it it well

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Look at what was it Rutgers? That identified proper grammar as racist and So there's not gonna be an emphasis upon matching verbs and things like that.

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You you do realize this is just destroying The very mechanisms by which we communicate truth and that's its intention

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Spiritually, this is rebellion This is rebellion against God. It's rebellion against the God who made the universe to function in a particular fashion who made us

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Communicative beings Who made us to communicate in such a way that he could communicate his will to us in the scripture?

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all of this it is it is rebellion and destruction of these very things and so this whole

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Area of Critical theory and the creation of lenses is

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What we're seeing and so this article I was taught telling you about it's by Tim Keller it's filled with the language of Critical theory critical thought of wokeness because this is this is the context in which

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Brother Keller finds himself in The New York Washington East Coast black hole of Marxist infiltration basically

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And so I was explaining to a friend who said, you know, I've I've really benefited from from Keller in the past But recently

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I'm just seeing this more and more and I I didn't mention about I've mentioned on this program. I Remember, I think it was 2014

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Hearing yeah, I think it was 2014 Maybe been earlier than I think about I remember hearing

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Tim Keller on a Radio program he was talking about a book he had done on suffering and as I listened to him speaking about the issue of God's sovereignty and suffering

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The only thought that the words that came out of my mouth I remember I was driving a rental car as I recall the words that came out of my mouth was that's not a

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Westminster man That's not a man who is who is bound by a confession any longer that's not what

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Westminster says about the sovereignty of God and the simpleness of man and the decree of God and and You're you're not that's just that's just not what he's saying to this audience and I wondered at the time why that was

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But I told my friend I likened it to these glasses that I have these are These are riding glasses of mine and You'll notice they're primarily clear and So you might say well those why would you have clear glasses?

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well, obviously when you ride there's stuff flying around and but they're the ones that I wear when

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I ride at night and I am more confident There isn't a whole lot of stuff flying around at night

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But you know once in a while But I feel more confident confident with my my eyes protected when you're going fast you want stuff there dust and things like that But you might recognize that they're not perfectly clear

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They're photochromatic and So as the Sun comes up and as ultraviolet radiation hits that lens

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It changes and it begins to darken and eventually it'd be a fairly fairly dark pair of sunglasses which is what you need when you're riding home in your early sunlight and I likened to the situation with people like Tim Keller and others to a

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Lens and once you allow an interpretive lens

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Into your teaching and preaching of the Word of God and and you may have you may have the greatest

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Positive intentions in Adopting that lens you really might you might go, you know to reach our city

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There's just there's just so much post -modernism in our city. There's got to be a better way to Communicate to these people and to and to get more of them to listen to our message.

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And so you met you may have the greatest Intentions in the world and the initial lens might be very thin and it might only have a small impact

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Upon the amount of light getting through or upon the focus because that's what a lens a corrective lens

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This is not a corrective lens. I have here But that's what a corrective lens does It's slightly, you know, a very weak lens just changes slightly the area of focus in what you're looking at The problem is once you start

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Generally you have to keep increasing the strength of the lens and You're that or if you want to use the photochromatic example as the light gets stronger and stronger

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There's there's more and more resultant darkening that takes place within the photochromatic lens. I Think that's the explanation

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For why we have seen so many who 10 15 20 years ago

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We were all saying the same thing. They weren't talking like this They weren't looking at scripture like this

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They were not using these categories, they didn't define racism the way they define it today I mean, they're there.

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There are literally churches entire churches Ed Stetzer this morning They're gonna do a study through D 'Angelo's white fragility and and I just I Just look at anyone

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Who can be taken in by D 'Angelo? I mean the money she has made off of that book

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Off of presenting pure incoherence utter destruction of logic and rationality

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Argumentation that should not pass a first -year level

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Logic class really shouldn't and yet she's made a mint off of it and I am

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Stunned I understand why corporations are doing it because corporations It's the bottom line.

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And if to their woke leadership, this is the best way to keep the bottom line intact Then that's what they're gonna do but churches and denominations

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They would promote a book that basically says That honestly honestly you boil it all down if you breathe and You're white you're a racist it doesn't matter what you do

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It doesn't matter how you respond to the discussion of quote -unquote racism any response you give

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Will prove you're a racist if you respond to quickly white fragility If you respond to slowly white fragility if you respond with anger white fragility if you respond agreeing white fragility

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It doesn't matter what you do if you blink if you breathe It's your mere existence.

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You're convicted and That kind of argumentation is vacuous vapid childish and simply stupid

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It is it could be used to prove absolutely positively anything it cannot be disproven because it actually does not make any meaningful truth claims and yet We have entire churches and denominations

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They're going we need to have a conversation about this The only conversation you have about that is how such a stupid book is selling so well

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That's the only conversation needs to be had I'm absolutely shocked

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I truly am that anyone cannot see through The foolishness of this kind of argumentation, but it's out there

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Ed Stetzer is promoting it And So my friend noted a couple of points.

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I was just gonna Look at them a couple of points in Tim Keller's article.

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This is a biblical critique of secular justice and critical theory. It's interesting It's a biblical critique of secular justice and critical theory

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Which you would think it's like oh good. He's gonna push back Not really Not when you've already adopted the categories of the system you're then critiquing so Under Section 2 called equity.

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Everyone must be treated equally and with dignity Have a quotation Leviticus 24 22 you were to have the same law for the foreigner as for the native -born the

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Hebrew term mess by aim Means equity and Isaiah 33 15 says those who speak with mess by aim

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Keep their hands from accepting bribes Then he says this bribery is unjust because in commerce law and government

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It does not treat the poor the same as it does the wealthy Any system of justice or government in which decisions or outcomes are determined by how much money parties have is a stench before God now

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It is very true That bribery has been used to undercut justice but Everyone has used bribes

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Women with no money have used bribes of sexual favors To undercut the justice system wealthy people use bribes against with other people

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Bribery to say bribery isn't just because in commerce law and government It does not treat the poor as the same as wealthy.

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That's not why it's wrong That's nothing to do with poor and wealthy. That's not even its category Its category is the transfer of wealth for the purpose of evading

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The specifics of God's law Where does this where does this even come from?

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Don't know in an article where you're pushing a supposed to be pushing back

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There's not pushing back. There's acceptance It's strange

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Then later on there's there's a lot to be talked about but I'm just looking at the sections that that my friends specifically

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Sent to me and said am I missing something here? Uh, he says under the section comparing biblical justice to the alternatives section c finally the storyline of the whole bible is god's repeated that identification with The wretched powerless and marginalized the central story of the old testament is liberation of slaves from captivity over and over in the bible god's

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Deliverers are usually racial and social outsiders people seem to be weak and reject in the eyes

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The power leads the world that has nothing to do with the bible at all I I read that and I go this is supposed to be a pushback.

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This isn't pushback. This is a trojan horse insertion Of the very thing that the title makes us think it's a pushback against I mean, let's look at this again

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The storyline of the whole bible. What is the storyline of the whole bible? The storyline of the whole bible is the glorification of the triune god

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So the redemption of a people from every tribe tongue people and nation

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Not based upon anything in them not based upon their social status their money their power structures or anything else

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But solely to the praise of his glorious grace in and through jesus christ and him alone That's the story of the bible old and new testament

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How does that? By someone who claims to follow the westminster standards

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How does that become the storyline of the whole bible is god's repeated identification with the wretched powerless and marginalized?

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like david solomon Was he identifying with the powerful there?

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He made them kings, right? He gave them all their power, right? does

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Is there a biblical teaching? that god demands justice

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For the widow and the orphan who would be those who are wretched powerless marginalized is there

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Uh, is there justice in scripture? um for Individuals who are poor so you're not to glean all the way to the corners of your field

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And so you're to provide that was sort of in an agricultural setting the Provision of assistance for those who are marginalized

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Okay, that's definitely there. Is that the storyline? That's the the primary thing wow, there's a lot of excess words in there if that's the primary thing because It's certainly the fact that the people of israel ignored it

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The people the fact the fact the people of israel did rebellion against it. Sure But that's not the storyline

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It's god's dealing with a hard -hearted and rebellious people despite his constant blessings

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The central story of the old testament is liberation of slaves from captivity really Again, everybody knows.

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Well, there were slaves who were Liberated from captivity in the old testament.

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See there's an element of truth to it I guess you forgot god was the one who sent them into that slavery initially

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And then sent them into slavery again and again and again and again

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We forgot that part I'm, just I'm, i'm just left going

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The lens has become really thick When you can start saying this over and over the bible god's deliverers are usually racial and social outsiders

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Really? So isaiah was a racial and social outsider Or are we not talking about the prophet?

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What is this even talking about? People seem to be weak and rejected in the eyes.

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The power leads the world The power leads the world Was he talking like this 15 years ago?

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He may have been one of the first ones He may have been one of the first ones But this is not what we were hearing and now

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Even when pushing back The collapse is right there.

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The compromise is right there. It's just it's just part of the language. It is truly amazing

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Now it becomes really troubling really troubling When it starts impacting your doctrine of jesus remember a few years ago when keller tweeted

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That basically the incarnation was god wanting to get close to you All I could hear was the carpenters close to you

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What? What? And my my pushback my response to him was

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No The incarnation was about the triune god father son holy spirit choosing to redeem a particular people

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Powerfully by grace through the incarnation the son of god and his self -offering upon the cross of calvary all the praise and glory of himself

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Um, it has nothing to do with getting close to you That was where I really started getting the idea that there was some pretty major problems

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Uh going on in brother keller's departure from where he had once been in time past So we get this

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And it's toward the end of the article When god came to earth in jesus christ, he came as a poor man

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To a family at the bottom of the social order Um no

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Carpenters would be what we would call middle class actually Sorry, it's just true um, they were skilled laborers

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And there was a real um demand for their their skill so as Much as you want to say well, he must have been poor because they had to go to the manger

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That's because they were traveling And they were traveling someplace where you wouldn't have family so no, sorry

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Uh, but you notice poor man Uh bottom of the social order so we've got to make everything about man power structures economics

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That's what woke religion does He experienced torture and death at the hands of religious and government elites using their power unjustly to oppress

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Yes, according to acts chapter 4 verses 27 to 28 those individuals did exactly what god's hand predestined to occur got to have that part in there doesn't really fit with the woke stuff, but Uh, but I don't remember the

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I mean we have principalities and powers in the new testament That's definitely referred to but we understand what government elites um

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And so on and so forth So in jesus We see god laying aside his privilege and power

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M dash his quote glory end quote m dash so now

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The the glory of the pre -incarnate son Is being placed in the categories of critical theory

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Privilege and power. I thought privilege was always bad Isn't privilege always bad?

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privilege and power God lays aside his privilege and power because see that's what we're supposed to do

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We're supposed to lay aside our quote privilege and our power in the service for others well

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Philippians chapter 2 actually gives us the proper context and that's the text he's going to go to that's that's what caught my attention because he says in order to Identify with the weak and helpless philippians 2 5 through 8.

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Excuse me Excuse me You will not find weak and helpless

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Anywhere in philippians 2 5 through 8 What you will find is the sun taking on human nature and by the way

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God in his grace has saved powerful men Rich men believe it or not.

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God has even saved a few ever says That that decision is based upon ethnicity or race

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Men from every tribe tongue people and nation But may

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I remind you if you're going to take the bible seriously there were many centuries that passed

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For god's blessings were given to one people and not given to others

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Was that wrong? Consistently be consistent in your argumentation

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Was it wrong for centuries to pass as god sent prophets to deal with a small nation on the mediterranean?

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Nowhere in the carmen christian philippians 2 5 through 11 Are we told that he laid aside his glory in order to identify with the weak and helpless?

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He took on a perfect human nature so that he might die upon the cross

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And when you replace dying upon the cross of calvary with some kind of social justice theory

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You are this close to walking right out of the faith Right out of the faith

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Somebody needs to get tim keller's ear. He's not going to listen to me I'm, not one of the the big eva schmoozers

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But somebody needs to get his ear and say brother You've missed it You have missed it

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And yet through the endurance of violence and human injustice

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See the categories Enduring violence and human injustice rather than what philippians actually says that he

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Emptied himself. He made himself no reputation and he humbled himself becoming obedient the point of death

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And that was not obedience to categories of violence and human injustice God used violence and human injustice

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But to make them the primary category is to miss The whole point of the submission of the son to the father in the perfect provision of salvation itself

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Through the endurance of violence and human injustice He paid the rightful penalty of humanity's sin to divine justice isaiah 53 5

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That's right That's the only kind of justice there really is And there is a huge difference a huge difference

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Between the divine justice of isaiah 53 and the man -centered justice of equity equaling equality and everything else

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That is now being presented in our society Then he was raised even greater honor and also to authority to rule.

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Well, why how why would that why not equity? This doesn't sound very woke

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There should be equity But he gets something other than he gets privilege back Jesus takes authority but only after losing it in service to the weak and helpless

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No after laying aside the equality he had with the father so that he might redeem

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God's elect are they weak and helpless you better believe they are All mankind is weak and helpless

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By grace, he chooses a particular people And brings about their salvation for what purpose?

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to the glory of the triune god It's all to the glory of the triune god and i'm sorry

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But the idea of the glorification of the triune god is not a woke concept

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That's not going to fit that ain't going to fly at a blm protest That's not going to fly so how do you get to stuff like this well

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It's a slow process Well slow I'm, not sure we would necessarily call it slow, but It's not slow anymore.

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Okay now, um next I would like to Switch over get myself a little little drink here.

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Ah, man, that's good stuff Apple cider vinegar. Oh No, no, it's cut.

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I'm not you can't do that straight. Are you kidding? Uh But in arizona where we've been setting and breaking records we tied record yesterday at 114

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July was the hottest record hottest month on record in phoenix and they um

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They calculated that not on the basis of the high temperatures like that, but the average of the high and low

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And three times in the past we had had a july I think two julys and one august

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Where the average temperature so the average between the high and low? Was 98 .3

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degrees By the way, that's that's how warm your pool water will be

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By august is the average of the high and the low So it's like taking a bath. That's why

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I don't have a pool anymore but um Haven't had for quite some time Three times we had had 98 .3.

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You know what the average temperature was in july in phoenix just past 99 Seven tenths of a degree blew the record away average temperature between morning and night for 31 days 99 degrees

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That was toasty and it's staying that way so I would like to Do some story time

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With uncle jimmy. Yes story time with uncle jimmy. I want to read Some material to you don't tune out on me, please

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I am hoping this will be useful to you. I want you to think back if you were with us on the last program

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I quoted from a great bishop Who lived at the end of the 5th century?

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Deeply influenced by Augustine by a name of phil gentius phil gentia

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Phil gentius of rusp And You can get you know, we don't have a lot of his works

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But thankfully we have enough that you can get a really good sense of where he's coming from And um

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He wrote some correspondence On christology and grace to the scythian monks now

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Let's remember our church history Always important to remember our church history You don't want to pop quiz and not remember your church history um

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Council of chalcedon is right in the middle of the 5th century so Phil gentius is living within the lived memory

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Of those who were at chalcedon and what what do you have at chalcedon? You have the definition

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Of what we would call today The the conclusion of the christological controversies the definition of the hypostatic union and specifically the jesus is one person with two natures

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This was over against nestorianism eutychianism apollinarianism all of which in some way shape or form uh obliterated the clarity of the humanity

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Deity And obscure the relationship between the two in the person of jesus and so you get the chalcedonian definition

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And there are still people in the east who do not accept the chalcedonian definition um um

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But that is the big subject of the day it there's There's nobody who's woke um, there's nobody uh, who's talking

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Dispensational premillennialism hasn't developed yet won't develop for another 1300 years um in that form um

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There's the there's no left behind series um None of that stuff

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If you're if you're talking theology You're talking about the person of christ and so what's interesting is the

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Real discussions that would be going on In the marketplace would be about subjects that to be honest with you

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Most evangelical christians today would not be able to engage the subject whatsoever Hypostatic union

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Honestly What percentage of professing christians the united states today would be able to pass?

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a basic level quiz in defining the hypostatic union correctly I will let you sadly reflect upon the reality of that but In writing to these monks, uh fulgentius well just comes up with some

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Incredible material and I quoted from him Um In the last program

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I want to give more of the context because I I just find fulgentius to be a

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I think as I said then a a breath of fresh air in Reading in the early in the early church so Looking at his first letter to the scythian monks section three

44:03

Just enjoy there's really not gonna be much to be looking at here i'm not displaying it Um, it's to my logos and so it's just text um but Hopefully you'll find this to be useful

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I realize that some people I'm sorry listening, but the early church father said he's not really early church either

44:23

This is getting very close to the medieval period late late early church period early medieval period depending on where you draw that particular line

44:33

Therefore if anyone refuses or hesitates to believe and preach either there are two natures Or there is one person in our lord.

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Jesus christ Or if anyone refuses to confess that the same one that is the word incarnate was truly born of the virgin

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Mary for our salvation is god and man the catholic faith recognizes and shows such a one

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To be as much a stranger as he is an ingrate who opposes the mystery of human redemption

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For this is that great mystery of godliness recommended to all the faithful by the mouth of the apostle

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The mystery that was made manifest in the flesh was justified in the spirit Appeared to angels proclaimed among the nations was believed on this world was taken up in glory

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This is of course the word who is in the beginning and was with god and was god That is the only begotten son of god and the power and wisdom of god

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Through whom and in whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made This same is the only begotten god, although he existed in the form of god.

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I stopped for just a moment Do you notice? This same is the only begotten god.

45:36

That's the What we would in older language call the alexandrian reading of john 1 18

45:42

Uh the textual variant of john 1 18 monogamous theos only gotten god unique god versus monogamous only gotten son he is familiar with and utilizes the critical text reading of John 1 18

45:57

I continue that is he was equal in all things the one who begat him He possessed a unity of natural essence with him and he was in that nature

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Which he being eternal has from the father that which the father naturally is The same one was true god most high and immutable.

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He was not a different god from the father But instead although the personal disorder nor of a different power nor of another essence

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I stopped just to comment That's basically An expanded definition of homoousius from the council of nicaea

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This same one although he exists in the form of god Nevertheless, he did not regard being equal with god as something to be forcibly kept

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I stop again That's my interpretation of Harpogmon in the karma christian philippians chapter 2 great to see someone 1400 years ago, uh 1500 years ago reading it in the same way understanding the same way

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It's one of the wonderful things about reading athanasius or fulgentius or or some of these individuals um

47:00

With god as something to be forcibly kept but he emptied himself by taking the form of a slave

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I stop again by taking that's exactly if you read my article And I had not run into fulgentius when

47:13

I wrote my article with cri the cri journal 15 years ago 17 years ago.

47:19

I'm, not sure how long ago it was now I'm, not even sure if it's may have been late 90s. I think about it. So it may have been over 20 years

47:25

I don't know but By taking the form. That's exactly I think the key element of that text

47:34

The same one was made in the likeness of men the same one was found to be in the human condition in him There could be no thought of forcibly keeping because the begotten fullness of natural equality remains in him

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Since he is from the father's substance by an ineffable and eternal birth Therefore he emptied himself by taking the form of a slave thus indeed god willed to be man naturally

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And so the lord of all things took on a servile nature without loss of his own sovereignty again, exactly true

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Just say amen Correspondingly having emptied himself He compassionately accepted the form of a slave the holy apostle of the new covenant

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After being made a fit minister by god just as he himself bears witness Also himself testifies about this formless any one of us

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Who hears about the emptied son of god should by evil thought imagine that the form? In the only begotten god has lost or diminished its equality with the father's form

48:29

Unless such a person by following the crooked circuitous ways the serpent's deception should not hold the path of right faith

48:36

To prevent this from happening paul clarified that emptying by removing the unclear elements when he added subsequently by taking the form of a slave this is

48:46

Sorry, but If you again if you've read my article on this this was this was one of the biggest

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Elements that I was emphasizing Um, and it was before I ran into felgentius so it is always thrilling Because I was simply exegeting the text

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I was seeking to be consistent with what it's saying and communicating within the parameters of the sermon illustration that it is

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And the primitive hymn in the early church And so here you have felgentius saying the exact same thing um

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Long before long before I did that's for sure Therefore the only begotten god's emptying was his taking the form of a slave since there was no loss or diminishment of his divinity

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The divine nature to be sure cannot be diminished or increased in any way Because it is immutable and remains always what it is

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For if that true and most high god who for our sakes became poor, although he was rich so that he might become rich We might become rich through his poverty

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Had been emptied in the sense of losing his fullness even saying this is wicked Or had undergone some change when he accepted the form of a slave then blessed

49:57

John The evangelist would not have said about the incarnate word and we have seen his glory The glory is only begotten from the father full of grace and truth

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So the word who was made flesh began to be human flesh in human reality, but in divine reality

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He did not cease to be the word For this reason the wonderful kindness of god the redeemer effectually accomplished the mystery of taking up and redeeming man

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Because the divine majesty could never admit of any change or diminishment. This is extremely important.

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I can't tell you how many times in Classes on christology systematic theology.

50:28

This has been one of the major questions students have had about the subject of the incarnation and excellent answers being given

50:39

From the text of scripture by a bishop at the beginning of the 6th century Therefore the word of god the very same god the word when he took human flesh from the flesh of his mother

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Did indeed receive the form of a slave in such a way that he deigned to become what he in fact became

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But he did this while remaining in the form of god that is eternal and immutable god Through that unity of person which he received the form of a slave indeed

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When he was made in the likeness of men, he was found to be in human condition Although in all ways he had immutable deity from the nature of the father

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Nevertheless he who was not created deigned to be created and he who was not created

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But begotten from the father will to be born from a woman Is in this manner the word was made flesh so there might be one mediator between god and men the man christ

51:26

Jesus who is god over all things and is blessed into the ages romans 9 5 again interpreted correctly by fulgentius

51:35

He is the one true son of god and son of man one and the same from the father without beginning Always having been the begotten god, but indeed also truly god according to flesh conceived and born in time from his mother

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It was not that the only begotten god received an unconceived flesh But rather god himself was conceived in that flesh in the profoundest humility

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Indeed according to the flesh god himself was created in and from the virgin And in fact he who had created his own mother was created from and in that flesh the mystery of the incarnation

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If however god the word had become flesh in the virgin in such a way that he had not come from her

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It is certain that god himself would not have possessed the substance of flesh from the flesh of his mother

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Would have simply have passed through the virgin Think about that for a second just passed through the virgin

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In such a case he could not have accomplished the mystery of becoming the mediator for our salvation

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Which is what I said on the last program about what happens if you accept the idea of the perpetual virginity of mary because in that case christ the son of god would not have

52:45

Would not have confused the united true full humanity and divine substance in himself

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Therefore the medical remedy as it were the divine goodness employed was that the only begotten god who is in the bosom of the father

52:57

Should become man not only in a woman but also from that woman Without doubt

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We are commanded by the prophets of god to believe and confess this indeed The prophet did not keep silent about the fact that god was made man

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When he said mother zion will say a man truly a man was born in her and the most high himself has established her

53:15

Isaiah also filled by the holy spirit foretold the mystery of the coming incarnation of the son of god Thus behold a virgin will conceive in her womb will bear a son his name will be called emmanuel which has translated god with us

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Therefore because the one whom the virgin conceived in her womb and bore is called god with us We recognize that indeed god has been conceived in the virgin's womb and has been born the gospel also says of mary

53:39

She was found to be with child by the holy spirit Joseph to mary's husband with whom she did not have sexual relations and experienced corruption of the flesh

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But who was the witness to the witness to and guardian of her sacred virginity and purest fruitfulness

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Is thus advised by an angel's oracle joseph son of david do not be afraid to take mary as your wife

53:58

For what has been born in her is of the holy spirit It is also shown by heaven sent words that he that one born in her was made from her for the apostle said

54:08

But when the fullness of time came god sent his own son made from a woman made under the law

54:14

Likewise as he was writing the romans He established this excellent beginning of his letter in order to show that he set a true and stable foundation of faith

54:23

Paul a slave of jesus christ called him the apostle set apart for the gospel of god Which he had promised through his prophets and the holy scriptures concerning his son who was made in the seat of david according to the flesh

54:34

Also in writing to timothy his beloved son the flesh He chiefly urges him with anxious affection to remember his faith saying remember that christ jesus who was from the seat of david arose from the dead according to my gospel

54:47

Also, the angel gabriel is found to have used this consolation when speaking of the blessed virgin herself Namely the future bearer of her creator indeed of the creator of all things

54:56

The holy spirit will come upon you and the power of the most high will overshadow you And therefore that holy thing that will be born from you will be called the son of god

55:04

I stopped just long enough not only to take a drink But also to point out

55:14

What's he doing Is he giving us traditions Is he saying we're to believe this because This person he's giving a scripture what's he basing his presentation on scripture

55:31

That's what augustine did and that's what um, well gentius is doing This belongs to mystery of our salvation because our father abraham ordered the steward of his household to place his hand under his loins and swear by the god of heaven

55:44

One should not suppose they did this apart from the prophetic spirit That is to say at the time when the chosen vessel hinted that all things happened as figures

55:51

Therefore holy abraham the father of the nations Did not do this because he believed that there was already some natural union with the god of heaven in his flesh instead

55:58

He did this so that we he might show that god of heaven was going to be born as a man from that flesh Which would bring the truth from among the descendants of abraham himself

56:07

Therefore that truth is the one christ the son of god in the natures of divinity and flesh in him

56:13

The oneness of person does not confuse the human and divine natures Hypothetically And the unconfused oneness of the nature does not make them exist as two persons consequently the truth of our reconciliation salvation remains

56:26

Because god the only begotten became true man for us And the man who was conceived and born was none other than the only begotten

56:35

God the importance of the fact of the incarnation Therefore The blessed mary both conceived and bore god the word in as much as he was made flesh

56:48

God the word did not insert the flesh in which he was conceived into her womb

56:54

Nor did god himself Who was to be conceived take on the material of conceived or formed flesh apart from her?

57:05

Instead he assumed that flesh from her as he was being born He received the nature of human flesh from and in the virgin herself

57:14

And the eternal god was temporally conceived and born according to that nature

57:23

To be sure the virginal conception was the very act of accepting flesh Because apart from temporal flesh that spiritual nature of the word of god that was begotten without beginning from god

57:33

The father could not have been conceived in the womb of that saint who was herself both mother and spiritual virgin

57:41

Likewise apart from union with the word of god Flesh could in no way be engendered in the inmost virginal womb that had not been inseminated by intercourse with a man therefore when god was to be conceived in her

57:56

Therefore when god who was to be conceived in her arrived At that very time the nature of the virgin who conceived offered this flesh from itself

58:07

Thus one must not imagine that there was any interval of time between the origin of the conceived flesh

58:13

And the arrival of the majesty who was to be conceived Indeed, there is one conception of divinity and flesh in the womb of the virgin mary

58:21

And there is one christ the son of god conceived in both natures So thereafter he might begin to erase the stain of the corruption corrupted offspring

58:30

Which was seen to exist in each person who was born now? Why the emphasis upon that if you're familiar with the christological controversies of that time period?

58:40

That was an anti -nestorian polemic that was That was an affirmation

58:47

Of the hypostatic union over against at least what is attributed to nestorius

58:54

Who would not use the term theotokos? but preferred christotokos Section 8 we're going to read through section 13.

59:03

This is a fairly lengthy section, but I wanted you to get a true flavor for What phulgentius is talking about and how he is addressing it for because all men are born of intercourse between male and female

59:18

Then because of their very conception they have the beginning of original sin spread upon them by that contact

59:24

For that sin, which is the first man incurred when he was led astray by the devil's malice, even though he was good by nature

59:30

Passed into his descendants along with its punishment. That is death a fact that holy david truly declared saying behold

59:36

I was conceived in iniquities and in sins. My mother bore me Thus as the merciful and just lord sought to destroy the vestiges of human iniquity

59:46

It was absolutely necessary that the immaculate one deigned to unite an immaculate human nature to himself by the way

59:53

Immaculate one there is not mary The immaculate one Deign to unite an immaculate human nature to himself is about jesus

01:00:02

In the very act of conception an act which ordinarily the devil was accustomed to rule as his own portion and dominion by inflicting the stain of original sin

01:00:12

Therefore the only begotten god accepted the conception of birth of his human nature a nature that he willed to assume truly and completely

01:00:18

May it never be that any catholic would believe or say it the only begotten god who was to redeem us by his own blood

01:00:25

In that flesh by which god himself was made man Might reject the beginnings of human conception when in fact god was going to suffer the extremes of human mortality in that same flesh while remaining immortal himself

01:00:38

For just as the true and living god did not lose his unchangeable and indestructible natural condition as he died in the flesh

01:00:44

So also the same god who was naturally infinite and eternal Did not lack his natural infiniteness when he was conceived in circumscribed flesh

01:00:53

And when he was born in the flesh temporally, he did not lose his natural eternality in which he was the eternal god from the father and in the father

01:01:02

For by that life, he wanted his death to be the death he assumed in the flesh And that eternality had its temporal conception in his mother

01:01:12

God the word therefore This is deep stuff It's great. Therefore god the word that is the only begotten son of god

01:01:19

Who is in all things just as he himself bears witness the alpha and the omega the beginning of the end Thus did not initially refuse to be conceived in flesh according to human nature

01:01:30

Just as god by dying in the same flesh later paid the debt of human nature For human nature would have been in no way sufficient and satisfactory

01:01:37

For removing the sin of the world unless it had passed into the oneness of god the word Not by a confusion of the natures, but only by a unity of person

01:01:47

Again over against eutychianism or apollinarianism in various forms to be sure when the word became flesh by a wondrous union

01:01:55

He created his nature and he that he received from us nonetheless in that divine and profoundly wondrous union the divinity of the word was not changed into flesh

01:02:06

And the true humanity of the word absolutely preserved the natural reality of our race Therefore a virgin and one must constantly call to mind the fact that she was a virgin

01:02:16

Both conceived and gave birth to god the word himself according to the flesh that was made in her

01:02:22

The one she bore was the only begotten god the very power and wisdom of god the radiance of eternal light in the flawless mirror

01:02:29

Of god's majesty the image of his goodness the splendor of his glory and the figure of his substance The one she bore was the one whom the unchangeable and eternal divinity of the father begat as the eternal and unchangeable one

01:02:40

Without any beginning of his nature the virginal womb first conceived and gave birth to this same one

01:02:46

God and man complete and entire in human nature this I hope you see Is a very full -throated defense of the chalcedonian formula

01:02:58

When however, we say the lord christ is god and man We point not to a duality of persons

01:03:04

But to the fact that a very true union of both natures has taken place at any mingling i .e.

01:03:09

the hypothetic To be sure the same god who is man is the same man who is god

01:03:15

For human nature was wondrously united to god the word in such a way the true god himself would become true man

01:03:21

And indeed in such a way the true humanity the incarnate word would possess no other person than the incarnate word

01:03:26

For it was a human substance not a person that was added to god Therefore god with his own flesh is one christ the son of god and the son of man

01:03:34

The same one at the same time both word and flesh indeed. The same word is flesh for the same god is man

01:03:43

But god the word did not receive flesh in some way without becoming flesh since the evangelist says the word was made flesh

01:03:49

And the most high and most great god did not assume the nature of flesh in the way He dwelt in one of the patriarchs or prophets

01:03:56

In that case god would certainly have been in that man, but god himself would not have been a man

01:04:02

May it never happen that the christian conscious Conscience holds to such understanding or that anyone among the faithful permits himself to be defiled by such great ungodliness

01:04:11

For when the word was made flesh divinity thus deigned to unite humanity miraculously to himself to itself

01:04:17

In such a way that for the life of the world that humanity of his Would come into being as divine humanity in one and the same god and man christ while preserving the reality of both natures

01:04:29

For god not withholding his mercies and his anger was made man for this purpose that whatever he had created whole in man

01:04:37

God might make it completely whole again once he had taken it into himself As a result, we're getting close to the end here as a result.

01:04:46

He possessed this marvelous quality Of being both god and man because he was truly conceived and born according to flesh

01:04:55

Consequently the virgin ineffably conceived and bore the god of heaven and the virgin mother remained inviolate

01:05:01

After all an angel has truthfully proclaimed that she was full of grace and blessed amongst women luke chapter 1 now remember

01:05:11

Stopping for a moment in modern roman catholic theology This has now been extended beyond the birth of christ

01:05:19

And so what happens is modern roman catholic apologists will take that later concept and read it back and insist well, see here's

01:05:29

Here's the same thing. We're saying at a later period As we're going to see in a moment that don't work

01:05:36

By the power and work of prevenient grace the holy spirit came over her and the power of the most high overshadowed her

01:05:42

And she was as she was about to conceive the one who was god and the son of god She neither desired nor engaged in intercourse

01:05:49

But instead while maintaining her virginity in both mind and body she received from him What she was about to conceive and give birth to by a gift of uncorrupted fertility and fertile purity

01:06:00

Thus did the holy virgin conceive god the word as he the creator of angels and men Was himself made according to the flesh and the same way.

01:06:09

She gave birth to the redeemer of men The holy virgin mary did not conceive god without assuming his flesh or conceive flesh without its union with god

01:06:17

Because the one whom the virgin conceived belonged jointly to the to the god of the virgin and to the flesh of the virgin

01:06:25

This is the grace by which this is section 13, this is a section from which I quoted, uh yesterday

01:06:32

This is the grace by which it came about that god who came to take away sins because there is no sin in him

01:06:39

Was conceived from sinful flesh And born as man in the likeness of sinful flesh

01:06:48

To be sure the flesh of mary had been conceived in iniquity in accordance with human practice

01:06:56

And so her flesh That gave birth the son of god in the likeness of sinful flesh was indeed sinful

01:07:05

This is an accurate translation I have the patrilogia latinae, uh citation if someone questions that it's an accurate translation

01:07:16

Vulgentia said to be sure the flesh of mary had been conceived in iniquity in accordance with human practice

01:07:21

And so her flesh that gave birth the son of god in likeness of sinful flesh was indeed sinful

01:07:29

The apostle bears witness that god sent his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh

01:07:34

That is to say he sent the one who although he exists in the form of god nevertheless did not regard Being equal with god as something to be forcibly kept but emptying himself by taking the form of a slave

01:07:44

He was made in the likeness of men for that reason the son of god The same one who was made in the likeness of men

01:07:50

Was sent in the likeness of sinful flesh so that he might become like men in the true flesh

01:07:56

That he himself had created and so that god created in the flesh without sin Might remove our dissimilarity to himself

01:08:05

He understood this dissimilarity in our flesh to be a result of his work Not of his work, but of our sin

01:08:12

Therefore as the son of god appeared he was sent in the likeness of sinful flesh Because human mortality was present in his true human flesh but not human iniquity

01:08:24

When it is said That truly the likeness of sinful flesh is in the son of god or rather that the son of god is in likeness of sinful flesh

01:08:33

One must believe that the only begotten god Did not take the defilement of sin from the mortal flesh of the virgin

01:08:44

But that he received the full reality of its nature So that the source of truth might rise from the earth the source whom the blessed david announces in a prophetic word saying

01:08:58

Truth has sprung out of the earth consequently mary whom god accepted truly conceived and bore the word incarnate section 14 be the last one

01:09:10

That I read but she gained the privilege of conceiving and bearing god -made man not because of human merits

01:09:18

But because the condescension the most high god who was being conceived and born from her For if god the word had not been born as a true and full human being by uniting human nature taken from the virgin to himself

01:09:29

In an exceptional way. He could never have been the source of spiritual birth from god for us Who had been born carnally?

01:09:37

But in order the divine birth might be given to those who have been carnally born The divine majesty was first conceived and born in the true flesh of the only begotten son

01:09:46

For salvation was far from sinners and our iniquities separate us greatly from god Because we were held held bound by the fetters of death from the very moment of our fleshly birth

01:09:57

And because we could be set free from this death only by the blessing of spiritual birth God was born of a man so that men might be born of god this reason therefore christ the son of god

01:10:07

That is the true god in eternal life was born and died in true flesh So we might be reborn spiritually in the one name of the trinity through the sacrament of baptism

01:10:17

The apostle teaches this saying we who have been baptized in christ. Jesus have been baptized into his death so he goes on from there, but you might say man that was

01:10:31

A long reading. Well I think some of those gnostic gospels we read were longer than that but the point is compare so often because So many of us so few of us read from the early church we

01:10:57

Assume things about the early church that are simply not true it is not that all patristic

01:11:08

Materials are equal full gentius is a bright light But it should be a tremendously challenging thing for us.

01:11:18

And for me, it's a tremendously encouraging thing to Read this kind of Clear thinking from so long ago.

01:11:32

I have to go Compare this with most of what we see going on today

01:11:40

Compare this with much of what is written today. We think ourselves so advanced but the reality is

01:11:50

When was the last time you sat still? And listened to a lengthy discussion of the necessary elements of incarnational theology now obviously

01:12:07

The focus of felgentius is on christ But I simply have to ask the obvious question if felgentius had believed

01:12:18

What modern roman catholicism defines to be true would he have spoken like this

01:12:24

Would he have even had to raise some of the questions about I mean, he's literally discussing How was it that being made in the likeness of sinful flesh?

01:12:32

He does not inherit corruption From mary's flesh that was born as sinful flesh.

01:12:41

It's the exact language he uses He doesn't say well because of the immaculate conception of course because at this point in time that hadn't been thought of This hadn't been thought of It's gonna

01:12:56

As it's dogmatically believed today Uh, there's another 600 years or more before you're going to run into a british monk named edmer

01:13:07

And there's a lot of development In mariolatry, it's going to have to take place before You have that so there you have uh felgentius of rusp

01:13:25

I hope that you found I know I know I know there's probably not too many other people reading felgentius of rusp on their webcasts today, but That's fascinating material.

01:13:38

It is really important It's fundamental in giving answers to so many different groups

01:13:46

I mean this comes up the mormonism This comes up with joe as witnesses unitarians

01:13:53

It's important stuff And it's also important in recognizing That the great ludwigot was right

01:14:01

They didn't teach this Uh, the great fathers in the west and east did not teach this this is something that developed a later point in time and Real roma catholic scholars recognize that they they see that that's the case

01:14:14

Despite the dogmatic statements of the church that this has been the constant faith in the beginning. That's It's fantasy

01:14:21

It's wishful thinking. It's just not true It's dogmatic untruth That's that's that's what that's what it is dogmatic untruth

01:14:30

All right, so there you go we uh covered two primary topics today

01:14:36

And they were Interesting Not the kind of thing that makes people go rah rah.

01:14:45

I'm so excited as I leave this but hopefully make you thoughtful hopefully

01:14:51

Will make you to pray for the church today to pray for brother keller What he said is deeply concerning um

01:15:05

I am not amongst those ready to Kick him out of the kingdom But I very plainly are amongst those saying this is wrong

01:15:16

You are literally twisting the scriptures in philippians chapter 2 to create room for a narrative

01:15:26

That is sub -biblical at best anti -biblical in reality And He's not going to receive that from me, but I hope he'll receive it from others it'd be very useful for him to Uh repudiate the things that he's saying now, maybe others who are also promoting this stuff

01:15:45

Would repudiate it as well. So thanks listening to the program today. Thank you to Uh rich pierce for putting this together of course, um

01:15:57

Uh i'm, just uh I would imagine that rich probably didn't wasn't able to listen to most of the stuff because what what you don't know is that rich is very busy rich makes the greatest

01:16:09

Buttered croissants in the world because he's french. And so he just has so many people writing him asking for his buttered croissant recipe that he's probably just He's probably just Very busy because he even handwrite.

01:16:23

He even handwrites it to people. I think that is just so special I really think it's special Uh, so I I think he'd love it if if he had 20 different people writing to him for his buttered croissant recipe after this

01:16:41

It's the only 20 people who made it through all that reading reading of vulcintius and I don't know where that voice came from.

01:16:50

I did you hear a voice? I didn't hear a voice. I I Coming from somewhere else anyways, thanks for watching the program today.