October 31, 2022 Show with Dr. James R. White on “Why Reformation Day Is Just as Important in the 21st Century as It Was in the 16th Century”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. And now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good.

Afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida. And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. Who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Reformation Day on this Monday, October 31st 2022.

I am thrilled to have the perfect guest for Reformation Day in my opinion On today his name will not be Unfamiliar To the vast majority of our listeners if not every single one of our listeners. His name is.

Dr. James R. White. He's an author of numerous books a New Testament Greek scholar highly skilled and seasoned debater professor of apologetics and church history at Grace Bible Theological Seminary in Conway, Arkansas.

One of four pastors at Apologia Church in Mesa, Arizona host of the dividing line webcast and co-founder director and resident apologist at a Alpha and Omega Ministries. And today we're going to be addressing why Reformation Day is just as important in the 21st century as It was in the 16th century.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio my dear friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

Well, I'm assuming. Chris this means we're not going to continue discussing your former life as an axe murderer. Well, you know.

I always thought those conversations that began off the air would not continue on the air. Thanks for letting that be public knowledge.

So I'm just getting you back in my old age in your old age for all those all those decades in the past yes. You know, so it's just it's only fair but some happy Reformation Day. And yes, I I do. I'm looking forward to have an opportunity to bring up a few important issues.

Just watching social media and seeing all those memes of Luther standing there at the castle church and Pretending that he actually was doing something that people would notice at the time. I love debunking all that stuff and getting getting the truth out.

So it's good to be with you.

Oh, it's great to have you and I just want to let you know that I continue to hear the praise reports of those that were in attendance both at the Iron sharpens iron radio free pastors luncheon that was held just Last month at the Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania and Also those that were present at the debate that you had with dr. Peter van Cleek on the textus receptus and I just keep hearing from these folks every week thanking me for orchestrating those events giving praise reports of how blessed they were especially those that were at the pastor's luncheon and Heard from you a message that they were not expecting at all.

Not that it wasn't an academic message it was a message from the heart and They were very surprised by that but very thankful for that. So it's in fact they heard it today and and pastor Doran Ray Of Church of the Living Christ will actually formally of Church of the Living Christ in Loisville because Yesterday was his last Sunday preaching there.

Oh and but he wanted me to extend to you his Heartfelt greetings and his hopes to get to see you face to face again as well.

So you're saying that they were stunned that I have a heart.

Well, I think that would. Everybody that would include everybody.

Yeah, well as you as you interestingly were able to detect. What we did at the pastor's luncheon really wasn't what I had planned really. I just sort of Follow followed the Spirit shall we say and and did something a little bit different.

But yeah, when you got a room full of pastors, I think it's probably best to address issues that pastors themselves would be thinking about and. So we did so I'm glad it turned out the way it did.

Well today as you know is We are talking about why Reformation Day is just as important in the 21st century as it was in the 16th century and the reason I wanted you to discuss this today is Because it has always been increasingly alarming to me over the years.

To.

Meet and encounter and even interview men of God that have been used mightily of God through their writings through their teaching and preaching who are thoroughly reformed even confessional. And. Who will surprise me?

Sometimes even on the air causing me or creating the Necessity that I do some kind of damage control and give a caveat of my own after they surprised me with statements that are shockingly soft on the Church of Rome very ecumenical in nature and I think that there seems to be amnesia as To why there was a Reformation to begin with.

Why? Countless thousands of Bible believing Christians men women and children were tortured and executed over the differences that they had with the Church of Rome. And. Is this it is as if there are many?

Evangelicals and even reformed Christians who say well the fact that they're not Torturing and killing us anymore is good enough now. We can be friends. Right if you could just pick it up where I left off there.

The Reformation’s Material and Formal Principles

Well, you know when you think about it. I'm not sure that it's just simply a matter of softness. I just think a lot of people are utterly ignorant of. What the issues at times Reformation were?

They don't enter into history very much even the even the brilliant men who are authors and who have.

Yeah, I mean, it's one thing to it's one thing to have read some history. It's another thing to enter into it for example. What was what was the material Principle the Reformation. Well there's the material principle in the formal principle the material principle is justification by faith.

That was what was being preached. That's what changed hearts and minds and and.

Really.

Impacted people. The formal principle was solo scriptura the scripture is a soul and follow the rule of faith of the church now. When we preach justification by faith today, let's just be honest it doesn't have the same impact that it did in Luther's day and the reason for that is In in Luther's day in many places in Europe a woman would have to have ten live births to get one through to maturity, there is a huge massive amount of infantile mortality.

Almost well, I think about every reformer that I know lost a child at some point both Luther and Calvin did and.

So.

Everybody had seen dead bodies. Everybody in their family had people who had died and so you you dealt with the reality of.

Death and you.

Recognized your own mortality the the the plague would keep sweeping through and it wasn't like it was between 1347 1351 but it would take people each time it came through and people would flee the cities and and.

Just to go just to go to School just to go to Wittenberg or Leipzig or Heidelberg or any of the larger cities you were risking your life. To go to places like that because of disease and and that type of thing that changes how you view The doctrine of justification because you may have to stand before God much sooner than you think you you recognize that.

You could end up standing before God in a very very short period of time. We don't think of our mortality in that way any longer. We there are many people who do not see a dead body until they are they are much more mature in years and.

So as a result we tend to look back at those days and we. We plug it into where we are today and some of the passion That existed at that time just doesn't translate through to us today. And so when we when we talk about these issues being life and death issues it's difficult for us to really plug that in in our modern context because we insulate ourselves from death we.

Every one of us today lives like kings and queens in comparison to people in those days we have Indoor plumbing for crying out loud. We have refrigerators. We we have things called grocery stores we don't have to go down to a market and.

And and buy a chicken and chop its head off and pluck its feathers off and and do everything else like that. You know, you just you just go and buy chicken breast at at Albertsons or something. So we have it so much easier and that may be ending very quickly, but right now we have it so much easier.

That the issues just seems so far away for us and they become academic it's like yeah, you know Luther he was a little bit too hot-headed on his side and and Johan Eck was too hot-headed on his side and we've just learned to sort of get get along a little better and you know if sure, there's they're still important and all but we just we just dismissed it in that way and so It it's not so much I think ignorance as it is just not having the same context that they did back then and.

The reality is we're the ones that aren't thinking things through because every time you get in a vehicle. You're you're walking right next to heaven's door because some some guy, you know could have a heart attack and and Pass out the wheel of a truck and come through a red light and take you out in an instant and everybody.

Everybody knows that you know, if you if you talk with someone they'll go. Well, yeah, I've seen it happen. Okay. Yeah, but we don't live with the reality that that could happen and. So I think that's why we have such a different perspective of things today.

We don't you know justification by faith. Thrilled people because you can know you have peace with God now over against the cultural you're gonna die and you're not even certain that you're gonna make it to purgatory and if you're in purgatory, you're gonna be suffering horribly and people back on earth need to have masses said for you and By indulgences for you and you know, that's just that's just even assuming you make it to purgatory you might not make it at all and and be cast in the flames of hell and and there's no way really if you to know without being presumptuous and.

This was you know, when when your children or your wife or your parents have just freshly died. Those are questions that Are not just academic. They're real. They're their life. They're they're everything and so yeah.

We're in a little bit of a different context today. But they were the ones that were actually thinking through the important stuff. Not us. We're just we just distract ourselves. So yeah, I think it's uh, it's still important today.

That's one of the reasons that it that it remains. So today and you're right today there is a bent toward an ecumenical attitude I don't know if you've heard me talk about it. But for quite some time at least for 20 years or more 22 years or more.

I've.

Regularly spoken about the fact that as we are pushed into a smaller and smaller social space And pushed out of so much of our society education and all sorts of Careers that just simply are not going to be open for Christians in the future unless Lord Does something in our in our culture?

That means we're getting pressed closer and closer together with Roman Catholics and with Mormons and with Eastern Orthodox and We don't know a lot about what those people believe. We've just thought that they were wrong, but we really weren't sure why and now all of a sudden we have to start talking and We discover real quick what we really think is definitional and what isn't.

And I'm I'm afraid that a lot of Protestants are Protestants of convenience taste comfort Tradition rather than Protestants of conviction and a Protestant of taste is Going to be very taken aback when they have a conversation with a Roman Catholic of conviction.

Because they don't know What the issues really are don't really have a means of defending their position.

And.

We see, you know, the result is conversions of people and all sorts of stuff like that. And of course, there are you're really super soft squishy Roman Catholics. I mean, you know, I just recently commented after seeing about the 100th tweet from Joe Biden about how if you just give him two more senators and keep the house.

That he'll codify Roe v. Wade in January of 2023 and I'm just like Excuse me. Isn't this guy a practicing Roman Catholic? Isn't that what he calls himself? And and yet nothing will be done or Nancy Pelosi goes to Rome and The Pope gives her the sacrament even though her bishop had precluded her from doing that back in San Francisco.

And just you know cuts the guy off the knees so you've got that kind of Roman Catholicism that doesn't really have much in the way of Beliefs any longer anyways, and hey, I don't know if you've discussed on the program I think it's sort of relevant to Reformation Day, but just over the past couple of weeks Francis has appointed two Pro-choice women to the Vatican's Life Council.

For five-year terms and it's it's it's simply a scandal that he's done so but it tells you a lot about where he's really coming from and That that starts telling you a lot about how quote-unquote tradition can change rather quickly.

When you have a system like Roman Catholicism, it's you know, we sit there and go. Hey, wait a minute. You guys say you've been the church for 2 ,000 years. You can't just go and start changing stuff.

But hey once you once you make the Pope the final authority in all things he he sort of gets to do what Popes do and.

So.

It is fascinating to see this developing right now because the the Roman Catholics that you and I dealt with. You know, for example, I would wouldn't you love to find out What father Peter Stravinskas thinks of the current Pope.

Oh, yeah, in fact, I've I've wanted for years to have you debate a Roman Catholic on the theme is Pope Francis a Faithful and trustworthy shepherd. I would love to see if anybody takes up the challenge who is not a leftist.

Well, what's interesting is I listened to there was a there was a online debate. Do you know the name Peter Diamond?

Yes, the name sounds very familiar. Is he from. Yes.

He's um, he and his brother have that small Sedevacantis Monastery somewhere up in New England. Oh, okay, and they're the ones that you know. We'll we'll freeze frame the dividing line where I'm making some type of hand gesture and go ah here.

Here's a demonic.

Just.

Really weird stuff but Peter Diamond debated a conservative Roman Catholic about Francis and It just blew everybody up because he won. I mean he he just it was very very clear that his arguments against The validity of the current papacy were very very strong and much stronger than the response given by the other side, even though from a conservative and.

So.

Those did that debate is taking place internally Inside Rome, which makes me just sort of go. The Roman Catholics that you and I dealt with back then. When I say back then, you know starting in the mid to late 90s when we started doing the series there on Long Island.

You know their view of the papacy then. Just simply couldn't even exist today. There's been so much change In that in that brief period of time. And so you really wonder what the next Pope's gonna bring.

Because Francis has filled the College of Cardinals with his own acolytes his own followers. And so it's highly unlikely that there's going to be a course correction. If anything it might get more radical so all this really goes back to the fact that we Protestants have been saying all along.

Well, you missed the boat because there is no such thing as a papacy anywhere in apostolic Christianity that is a development over time and certainly, that was one of the things that Luther came to understand but Certainly on October 31st 1517.

He hadn't quite gotten to that point yet. In any way, so I suppose we should probably probably get there.

Why Sola Scriptura and the Papacy Became the Central Issues

Well the thing that's oh, are you still there? Yes. Okay. The thing that's interesting about what you just said is that for years We have been hearing Roman Catholics Especially apologists regurgitate the line That sola scriptura is a blueprint for anarchy and that we need an infallible papacy to keep the church on in line and protect the church from drifting into all kinds of heresies and errors.

And we've heard about the myth of the 30 ,000 60 ,000 100 ,000 Protestant denominations and and. They would say that. Anything that a current Pope would say that is a modernist idea is really Has no import into what the Roman Catholic Church truly stands for.

They are Defined by the dogma of the church what has been proclaimed ex cathedra or ex cathedra depending upon who you're speaking with and. Now how on earth could they say there's any practical benefit to a so-called infallible papacy.

With Francis it's mind-boggling because the majority of what he says that is made public is definitely steering The church into the sewer of leftism and an apostasy. Even what you just mentioned of his appointments of pro-abortionists.

What how on earth could they possibly continue and perhaps they don't. But I haven't heard it in a while since Francis was Pope but how on earth could they claim that we have the blueprint for anarchy and yet their so-called vicar of Christ He would have certainly been executed in the days of Trent and prior.

Yeah.

Yeah, he definitely would have and that's the terminology. They're using is people are being red-pilled. But what that results in you know it's hard to say obviously the Eastern Orthodox are licking their lips going.

Hey, you know come on over the water's fine. But at the same time there are those who do everything they can To come up with an excuse to come up with a way around that particular Problem and but the thing is if they're apologists.

There's there's the problem if they're an apologist how do you call people positively to embrace this system? And even and when I see converts even now, you know, there's still you still see people talking about they're Joining the one true church all the rest this kind of stuff.

I'm just like how do you how do you do this right now? In light of Francis and the the blatant reality that he does not believe. What even his predecessor believed let alone? I mean, it's one thing to say.

Well, he's certainly outlying with Pope's 150 years ago. Well, duh.

But.

His predecessor who's still alive. You you can't possibly make the argument that Francis and Ratzinger Believed the same things that they would direct you that they would answer the same vitally definitional questions in the same way.

No honest person believes that. And It is a tough time to be a Catholic apologist, which is why you know, I think it was 20. Was it 2019? I think it's 2019. Some point I was down in Australia and Tim Staples was gonna be in Australia in Sydney at the same time.

And so we were gonna do a debate on Pope Francis and They called it off. They decided they didn't want to do it so. Not shocked. Not at all. No, no, neither am I so.

You know.

It was it'll be. Well, actually I just realized it was. You know last year was when we marked the occasion of the died of worms and.

Luther's.

Statement. That he couldn't go against conscience and he made reference to Popes and councils that have often contradicted each other. So that was that was a reality then and I would say it's much more of a reality today Looking at modern Roman Catholicism.

Then it even was in in Luther's day. So that is one issue that certainly has not changed in its in its relevance. But I think most Protestants they just don't take seriously Rome's claims. They don't really understand.

The claims the papacy and and they certainly most Protestants don't understand the doctrine of sola scriptura. Why it's important why they should believe it where it came from or anything else and so.

Anyway, I think it would be it would be helpful if we did at least talk a little bit about what took place.

Today, I'm not sure when the breaks coming up. We have just let me know. We have a break coming up right now actually and and we do have Some surprise guests here with us today. To give us a little history lesson and in the form of song we have party hardy Marty Luther and the protesters and so party hardy Marty Luther and the protesters are going to bring us into the commercial break and We'll be back shortly, but here they are party hardy Marty Luther and the protesters.

During the 16th century the Church of Rome reached its height of power as well as its depth of debauchery greed and corruption. One of the most vile and greedy puppets of the papal throne was a member of the Dominican Holy Order named Johann Tetzel.

Tetzel sold indulgences to the spiritually ignorant and enslaved laity Warning them that this was a necessary means to purchase the souls of their deceased loved ones out from the torments of purgatory.

A.

Limerick became popular in that day's event when a coin in Tetzel's coffer rings a soul from purgatory Springs. This abuse of papal power through pilfering the poor pious and peasant people did not go unnoticed by a young German Augustinian monk who was once one of Rome's most faithful and loyal subjects outraged by the level of greed and wickedness as a church sank to.

This monk nailed his protest to the practice of indulgence selling to the door of the castle church in Wittenberg. Hoping to spark a debate with the intelligentsia of Rome. The hammer blows as these 95 theses were nailed to the church door were like cannon fire heard rounds of world And ignited the blaze of a holy inferno that is still burning brightly today.

This holy inferno is the Protestant Reformation that Augustinian monk who ignited it was me.

Hello, I'm Martin Luther, and this is my story. Oh, yeah.

I'm the great.

Reformer.

Reforming the churches of what I'm known for. I made my protest before Zwingli and all of the rest Nailed it up to the Wittenberg door. Oh, yeah. I'm the great Reformer. Reforming the church was my goal.

But the Pope threw me out like some bad sauerkraut. Flushed me right down his Vatican pole. I would not indulge that. Third-fact. Johann Tetzel. So they threatened to twist my spine up just like a pretzel.

Yeah, I'm the great reformer. The Pope put a price on my head. But without on the run. I Married a nun. Sure beats livid with guys who bake bread. That's very bold guys. They're enrolled they can bread.

My lady sweet Katie gave up her old habit. She once dressed like a penguin now multiplies like a rabbit. Yeah, I'm the great Reformer. I turned Texas Church upside down. Tell those greaseballs that Trent Centuries after they came and went.

I'll be dead but that will keep me down. They wanted to slice me and dice me and feed me to the papal palace. Puppy dogs. But I'll bet you that in the 21st century that I'm.

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Listening to that always brings back such fond and hilarious memories of you and me at the Tuscarora conference center with Hope Reform Baptist Church of Quorum, Long Island putting on their youth retreat and that's what gave birth to that song was Me being given the challenge.

We want you to be the comedy relief for James White's teaching at the youth retreat and. And and I was. I was terrified. I was anxious because I didn't know what to do and then I'm at a Bible conference that you are conducting at The Bible Baptist Church of Sias at Long Island, which just does not exist anymore.

And.

You were doing it on the whole story of the 95 feces and it all sudden the light went on in my head. That's it. But anyway. Tell us about Why we are even celebrating this day today.

Well, I have to say, you know the first time and I'm not sure because there were two songs I'm not sure which one you just played. I wasn't able to hear it. That's right.

The I you don't own me is coming up in the second hour, okay, okay, okay, I just.

Remember that you performed those as part of the Talent show and I just remember falling off my chair. Everyone just he just talked about slaying an audience. It looked like a Pentecostal Church. It was it was it was pretty incredible so.

Yes.

I've always thought that you know, you could go on the road. But these days that probably wouldn't be now you just you just offend everybody. So Back then you could you could get away with it, but not any not anymore.

You can't do comedy without everybody getting angry with you. So but yeah, no, it's great and You know one of the bucket list Things that I've done I'm sure you've seen the picture and I in fact, I I'm sure you've listened to the sermon least I hope so.

Um, I had the opportunity just a month before the 500th anniversary. Yes of Reformation. We were in Germany and Michael Fallon arranged for me to be able to preach in the castle church in Wittenberg and He had arranged that for one other person and that was dr. Al Mohler and Dr. Mohler gave a lecture on Luther.

I just felt that it would be appropriate if you're going to be standing in Luther's pulpit With Luther buried at your feet. Literally. I mean Luther's tomb is Right underneath that that pulpit you can if you if I sort of leaned over it far enough I could look straight down at where Luther's very malignant only a few feet to the right and.

I.

Just felt that it would be appropriate to preach there. And and did. And just so thankful that I have have that memory. To be you know, it was able to do that. I've been in the castle church a number of times before over the years but and that may be the last time I ever get to be there, but.