Leadership

Welcome to No Compromised Radio Ministry. I'm in the studio today with Pastor Steve Cooley, the Tuesday guy, and he was just playing some Guess Who on his phone. What's all that about?

Clap for the wolfman. Well, Mike, playing music on the phone is something that started.

A few years ago. Maybe you want to catch up on that. If you keep that up, I'm just going to like drown you out with a loco. It's so violent. Steve, between being busy and especially me being kind of sick, or in my mind, really sick, we haven't done a show for quite a while.

What is new in your world? Did you just admit to having a really sick mind? Sadly, the fall has affected every part of me in a whole way, including my mind. Let's see. What's been up? Well, I've been out to.

California, went to a men's retreat, attended a Bible conference. Nice. You've been busy. I'm.

Going to take a deep sigh of relief tomorrow at about noon, right? Because I have the men's preach-a-thon tomorrow. I don't mean this in a negative way, but I'll sit through eight sermons tomorrow. I think the Lord knows I need some serious preaching.

Okay. So, you went to the Shepherds Conference? Any highlights? Somebody came up and said, hey, Tuesday guy.

Yeah. I had a few people do that. I mean, it's kind of funny because I don't think of myself as.

A celebrity because I'm not. No, yes, you are. You're just the K-list celebrity. They're A-list,.

B-list, you're K. So, I say to people, they go, wow, the Tuesday guy or whatever. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm still looking for the Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday guy.

Did you know there was a church that I went and helped years ago or went and preached at, kind of a conference, and they wanted to do a podcast? And it was kind of an associate, senior thing, you know, two pastors, co-pastors, however we want to talk about it.

And the one guy said, you know what? We're going to record shows on Wednesday and I'm going to be known as the Wednesday guy. And I said, oh, that's really cool. And then come to find out, he doesn't like me on Twitter and blocks me and says stuff.

And so, I don't know what I ever did to the guy, but I inaugurated him into Wednesday guy stuff. And then now it's just block. Block-o-rama. Let's see. Who'd you run into at the Shepherds Conference that was of interest?

Well, I'm trying to think. I mean, well, the guys from, you know, Church at the Cross in Northern California, they were super nice, you know, got me 11th row seats, which were pretty.

Sweet. So, they did all the running. You didn't have to run. Yeah. Well, you know, they were.

There. I thought it was interesting. I didn't even know this was a thing, but there was a early morning class for security where they were going over security things to know, you know, for your church.

And so, those guys were all going to those. And so, they were on campus at 715 in the morning. And the worship center was open, so they could just go in there and, you know,.

Reserve seats. And so, there they were. So. Remember the old days we'd bring 10 or 15 guys, they'd all go in and get seats early, because it was new and fresh for them. And then we'd walk in at 10 o 'clock texting, you know, where are you?

Put your hand up. Save me the seat.

But it was crazy. You know, I mean, guys were like lowering shoulders and, you know, knocking other people out and all in the name of worshiping the Lord. But, you know, you asked for a highlight. I would say, well, two things.

One was I had such a delightful experience with the shipping, you know, the book shipping was so awesome. But I have to tell a funny story. I'm just going to make myself sound really stupid. So, I get this as if that's hard, right?

So, I get this.

You notice I didn't make any comments. I batted my eyes.

I've got this big stack of Spurgeon books and I carry them to the guy. And this is on Thursday afternoon, you know, I'm letting out all my professional secrets because there's like no crowd whatsoever.

So, I get all these books and I carry them over and they're super heavy. And, you know, the guy says, because I said, I'm going to ship them. And the guy says, do you want me to help you? So, sure. I think he used to work in the book shack years and years ago.

So, he helps me and they've expanded the shipping thing now to where it used to just be one table only. And now they've got like three stations over there. So, it goes a lot faster. So, he carries me like through this veil into the shipping thing, helps me out and we get the books over there.

And so, I pay for that shipping and I said to the guy who I recognized from years before, you know, can I go get my free books now and send them too? Because I learned that you can like save 25 bucks by not doing the pre-shipping thing.

So, I do that and I get all this done and throw up my arms, literally throw up my arms in victory because I'm thinking, this like took me no time at all. This is the best ever. I'm like just on cloud nine.

And about five minutes later, I go, I didn't spend my vouchers. So, I have to go back in and, you know, I felt so dumb. But, you know, I would say the other highlight for me was I thought Mike Riccardi's was a breakout session.

I almost said outbreak. Yeah. Breakout session on the Trinity was really, really good. You know, I just found myself, because teaching in a Sunday school a little bit, I just found.

Myself going yes and amen and, you know, keep going. And I was loving it. That was the anti-EFS, eternal functional subordination, eternal submission of the son stuff, wasn't it? Yes. Was Owen there?

I heard Owen Strand was there on campus. Did he show up to that session?

I don't know because I was sitting up in the front row next to Doc Sammons.

Leadership as a Learned Skill and Common Grace

Oh, all right. All right. Well, today is going to be an interesting show. So far, probably in the last six minutes, who knows how interesting it is. So, it was. Let's jump start. Steve, I would like to be a better father, a better dad.

I'd like to be a better leader. There's a lot of things I'd like to do better. Do better, do good. I said to you a while ago, you know, I'm going to teach a leadership class because when you teach something, then you learn it even more than the students.

And that would be helpful to me. And in some areas, I think I lead well. In other areas, I think I lead poorly. And so, I'd like to be a better leader. What's your favorite book on leadership is what I ask and you said?

Genesis. No, no. Nehemiah.

I would just kind of like randomly, you know.

Nehemiah. No, you said something else and you don't. You could have picked Spurgeon on leadership, maybe John Owen on leadership. Al Mohler on leadership. Yes, yes. John MacArthur on leadership. Lots of people have leadership books.

But you picked someone, as far as I know, this team, neither of them profess Christ. What was the book that.

You picked? Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin.

And the subtitle is How U .S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win. And I thought, well, you know what? If I talk to Sinclair Ferguson and he said his all-time favorite book on the Holy Spirit was John Owen, I'd probably go get that book.

Oh, yeah. And so you're lesser than Sinclair, but I trust you. Oh, yes. And so I went and got the book and I've got a leadership class at my house, essentially every other week. We had about 25, 30 guys the first night and we're going over this book and trying to figure out how can we be better leaders, specifically, Steve, in our homes and then secondarily in the church.

So that's kind of my format there. First off, talk to me a little bit and our listeners a little bit about what we could learn from unbelievers and common grace and why we would pick such a book.

Well, I mean, because this is where these guys live, right? I mean, so from a practical standpoint, when you're just talking about that, and when I say live, I don't just mean they practice these things on a daily basis.

This is literally protecting their lives because they learn how to lead in ways that keep them alive on the battlefield, right? And kind of ensure that the men below them both respect them, listen to them, and give them input that helps them be even better leaders, right?

So I thought, now, I'm sure some people are probably sitting there going, well, why didn't they just go to 1 Timothy chapter 3? Those are the principles that you need and I'm like, of course, that's true.

But where would you learn, for example, to deflect credit? In other words, when people want to laud you with all praise and honor and you're just like, well, you know, it's actually the guys who work for me who make this all run and I'm just the beneficiary of, now you can learn that, but you won't learn that from 1 Timothy chapter 3, right?

You won't see that. So, you know, these are, a lot of times, they're, I would say, kind of biblical principles fleshed out in worldly ways, if that makes any sense. But for example, how would I exhibit humility?

Okay? By yelling. Pete, by not seeking credit, but rather sharing credit, right? I mean, again, these are just things that in the real world you learn and, you know, are they, a lot of, almost everything is a biblical principle in one respect or another, but there's no text I can go to where I'm just going to go, oh, oh, I see this, right?

And, you know, if you think about the Bible, it makes a lot of sense anyway, because what do we typically see in scripture? We see the failings of men rather than, I mean, there are exceptions to this, but we see their failings and we see the glories of God and the perfections of God and the imperfections of man more often.

And this is just imperfect men teaching you how to do better, I guess you could put it.

Taking Responsibility Instead of Blame Shifting

Jared Steven, if I look at it from a different angle, maybe I'd approach it this way. Don't you think that most congregants think, maybe even pastors think this way too, that the pastor is an expert or should be an expert in everything when it comes to communication, finances, marriage, sex, porn, relationships, how to find a good church, how to get along better with kids, what about discipline, what about trauma, what about dealing with memories that are, you know, suppressed, whatever it is.

There's only so much one person can do and be in terms of an expert. And I think to myself, Steve, a lot of times can't we use the principle of common grace where there are image bearers out there that aren't Christians and that they are wise and then they can be good parents, good dads.

I'm not saying they're Christians. They can be good leaders and we can learn from people that aren't Christians.

Pete. No, like, no. I mean, if they're a carpenter and they're not a Christian carpenter, then they're no good. If they're a mechanic, but they're not a Christian mechanic, they're no good. Pete. Steve, I go to Dana-Farber.

Cancer Hospital, as you know, once in a while, not that often, once a year. So, that's a good sign. And I always say I'd like to have a Christian doctor. I never say I want the best doctor. Pete. Well, that's wise of you.

I mean, isn't that correct? You want the best. And so, I'm like, it's hard to get better when it comes to leadership than the Navy SEALs.

Pete. And you know what I like, Steve, as I've read the first four chapters, there are things that they talk about that do make me think about biblical principles, even though they never said chapter and verse.

When they say, don't make any excuses in whatever leadership capacity you're in. I said to the men who came to my house for the discussion, when it comes to my marriage, when it comes to your marriage, you are 100 responsible as a leader.

Your wife may contribute guilt, but it's on you. If your marriage is great, praise the Lord. If it's not great, don't make excuses anymore. Just own it and then make a plan to make it better. So, I like it that we can see principles that might not come across with chapter and verse, but we say, yes, that's true.

Pete. Well, wouldn't you say, let's say that the first sin is failing to trust God, you know, disbelieving God. Well, the second sin is what? Blame shifting right away. It's, you know, the woman you gave me, it was the serpent.

It was, you know, it was you, God. It's your fault. It's everybody's fault except for ours.

With Aaron, oh, those people, you know, they threw the gold in the fire and out came this calf.

Pete. I mean, that's like four-year-old stuff, isn't it? I mean, that's like crazy.

Pete. Yeah, it's just so true, four-year-old theology. Well, I asked the men, when it comes to just owning things, shouldn't it be easy for a Christian to just say, I was wrong, I sinned, I'm admitting my mistakes.

If we say we have no sin, First John, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he's faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Honey, I haven't been the leader that I should be. I can't blame the kids. I can't blame society. I can't blame the current administration. I can't blame anybody else. I want to blame them. I feel sick, but it's on me and I've asked the Lord to forgive me.

So, would you please forgive me? And I'd like to do better.

Pete. What can she say? No way. No chance, pal.

Pete. Well, I guess she could say, prove it. You've said this before.

Pete. Yeah, which, you know what? If she said that, what do you say? You just go, well, you're right. So, I guess I'm going to have to prove it. Pete. Be doers of the word, not hearers only.

Encouragement, Praise, and Deflecting Credit

Steve, when it comes to taking responsibility for our marriage, for instance, or work or whatever, then what about people that are under us that don't do well in their jobs? So, to use the marriage example, our wife isn't doing what she's supposed to do.

The children aren't doing what they're supposed to do. What can we learn from leadership principles in general in the Bible or from Jocko? How do we take responsibility for not just our jobs, but their jobs and then try to help them?

Pete.

Well, you know, just to stay in the secular realm for a moment, you know, having done this middle management thing, you know, I had guys who worked for me. I'd have eight, anywhere from eight to 12 guys working for me at any one time in the jail, supervising hundreds of inmates.

I mean, sometimes a thousand inmates. And so, you know, amazingly, guys would make mistakes. What do you do when your supervisor comes to you and says, I can't believe so-and-so did such and such? Now, I could look at him and go, me either.

Let's have, you know, bring him in here and, you know, beat him down. But a lot of times, what I would do instead was, you know what? I got to take that one. You know, and here's why. Here's what I failed to do properly.

And, you know, I'll talk to him and we'll work on that and we'll get it squared away. Why would I do that? Because by taking the blame myself, right, the guys learn and the gals learn who worked for me.

They learned that they could trust me. They learned that I wasn't going to throw them in the bus. So, now, just think about your wife. Instead of going to her and saying, how could you do this? You say, you know what, honey?

I think I let you down here. And let's just kind of talk about this a little bit. And what are you teaching her? You're teaching her, one, that you really are the head, right? Because you're taking the responsibility and you're acknowledging your guilt and your failure, right?

Even though she might have made all the mistakes herself, right? Because you just see that this is a hole in an area of communication, whatever it is, where you can take some responsibility and you should.

Why? Because otherwise, it becomes this whole kind of distancing thing between the two of you. And you don't want that.

Steve, I love what you just said. In particular, I like it in the context of some husbands going around and say all the time, I'm the leader, submit to me, do this, do that, kind of this oafish, who knows, caveman-like thing versus here's how you show leadership.

When you say, all right, we have a problem and that problem is on me and I must not have communicated this right or something else that I did that may have had this outcome. I take responsibility. That's showing leadership.

That's saying I'm a leader without saying I'm a leader.

Right. Leaders don't have to proclaim the fact that they're leaders. They just don't have to. It just happens, right? It's organic. And, you know, it's something I would say very plainly in my own life.

The only time I ever thought I was a leader was on the basketball court, period, full stop, you know, or, well, or the football field or whatever, because I just liked being in charge of those things.

When it came to real life, not so much. So the first time I found myself in a real leadership spot outside of the family, you know, and I just thought, I have no idea what to do. Nobody's trained me for this.

And so it was just kind of like, that's why when I read this book, I just thought, okay, these are things that I basically learned the hard way. And I wish I would have had this book.

Like 30 years ago. Right? Well, Steve, one of the things that I got convicted by as I read the book is I've always said things like, you know, all the Lord, maybe, well, sorry, the Lord has gifted me with teaching and I like to preach and, you know, train men, but I'm, you know, the church is where it is in terms of lots of areas because I'm not an administrator.

So I've always, you know, I'm just not, I'm not good at administration. And I thought, you know what, except for now admitting it, that it's wrong to say, I won't, I'm not going to say that again. I'm going to say, well, you know what, in my mind, I might not be good at administration, but that's, that's just an excuse for things being the way they are.

And so it was, it was convicting for me. And of course you have the gift of administration. So I'm really appreciative of that. Well, that's why I wanted you to read the book. Well, hey, I can learn. You've taught me many things in life and I've taught you things in life too.

Encouragement in Marriage and Family

Let's talk a little bit about encouragement. Obviously this is a biblical principle, encourage one another, right? It's a command in the Bible with all the one another's encourage one another. How can husbands, let's keep it in the husband's realm.

How, why should they be encouragers? How could they encourage? How can they pass on the accolades of their wife to others or whatever, the accolades to them, to their wife and in front of others?

I've said this in various ways and I'm not going to try to reinvent it here, but I would just say this, that if you in public are only say good things about your wife, it's easier for you to say good things about your wife in private.

And why is that? Because she's not sitting there thinking, oh yeah, sure you think this and that and the other thing, but you just dogged me last week, you know, and believe me, the women will remember the negative things that you say a lot longer than you would remember negative things that they say.

I mean, those things, those are like, you know, the 10 commandments, they're etched in stone, baby.

I think that's the first time you ever said baby on NOCO radio in 15 years.

Well, it won't be the last. So, and here's why, you know, it really comes down to having this mentality of thinking, if I'm the leader and I need to take responsibility for the negative things and I want to deflect the credit for the positive things, then where do all the, where does all the credit go?

Ultimately, most of it goes to my wife, right? Some of it could go to my kids or whatever, you know, but I mean, my wife is the beneficiary of whatever, you know, good things are going on in my life. She's the reason for it.

So, why not say that, right? And trust me, it goes a long way and it really, I'm going to sound like a psychologist and apologies in advance for that, but you know, for women with negative self-images and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that, you know, psychological claptrap, if they believe what you say about them and it's because you're consistent about it, it helps them, right?

That's one less thing that they have to worry about. How do I please my husband? My husband is pleased. He does think I do a good job. He does trust me. Those things matter. They really do matter.

Steve, while I really fail on the blame part on administration, the way I do this with Kim and the kids and trying to show praise where it's due, I say to people, if they're asking me about my children who all profess Christ and love the local church and serve in a ministry, and I say, you know what?

If you want to look at my children and say anything, you say, by the grace of God, through the one who would tuck them in at night and be there all day for them and feed them and my wife. When I look at my children, I think to the praise of God's grace through the working of my wife.

Obviously, I was there, I provided, I taught the Bible, I did all that stuff, but that's one of the ways I try to do it because it's really true, right? It's not the only truth, but it's true. So that's one of the ways I try to do it.

I think we need to be better encouragers as husbands on how our wives look, what they cook. You know, you're great at that, by the way. Janet's a fine cook. Kim's a fine cook. But based on what you say, you'd think Janet Cooley was like MasterChef, that she just won MasterChef.

And so, I think you do a good job, in all seriousness, saying, you know, here, my wife is a great cook. My wife does this well. My wife does that well. Pete. Well, I mean, you know, the proof's in the pudding.

I used to weigh about 35 pounds more than I do now. Well, what happened, Steve? I stopped letting.

Her cook for me, you know? It was like... All right, last question when it comes to leadership, home, Jocko. By the way, Jocko's coming to Boston, I think, July 21st or something like that. Pete. We should have him here.

And by the way, I meant to say this earlier. If your church regularly preaches the Bible, and they're faithful, verse by verse, Christ-centered, exposition, and good Sunday school, Sunday night Bible classes, I have no problem with a secular book to read once in a while.

And we have a leader saying, what can we learn from this that makes us think about the Bible and to be better leaders at home? But if we never taught the Bible, and we just had a book club with another secular author, I'd say that's stupid.

Jocko. Yeah, it's really dumb. And I mean,.

You know, to your credit, and this should be understood, you're quote unquote, Christianizing, you know, this as you go along. In other words, it's not just.

The wisdom of Jocko Willink, you know, so... Pete. Right. I have one of my questions here. What does Matthew 20 say about leadership? And what wasn't in the book is Matthew 20, where Jesus talks about whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many, a humble, self-sacrificial, giving leadership.

And Jocko wouldn't put it that way and tie it to the Lord Jesus, but we would. So, in fact, we are trying to Christianize Jocko. Well, it's funny to listen to Jordan Peterson talk about God. Sometimes he's right on and sometimes he's spiraled off into weirdo land.

Pete. But that's what happens when.

You don't have the Holy Spirit, right? You can make observations that are keen and spot on and helpful, and then next thought is going to be rando. Well, the other thing we try to do with.

This book is not say it's only these principles, only these laws, only these morals, only these ethics, because then it's just more law. I mean, what are we going to do? Here's more law. Well, I can't even do the Ten Commandments, let alone the extra seven laws you gave me with promise keepers and the 25 Jocko just gave me.

I mean, do you wake up at 430 and take a picture of your watch? I do not. That is law to me, not gospel. Anyway, today we are talking with Pastor Steve about leadership, and if you want to read a book on leadership by Churchill, you know, I think that'd be great, right?

There are some excellent leaders in the world.

Pete See, and I think Thatcher, I mean, I still want to, I haven't read her book, but yeah, I think there are a lot of great books out there. It's harder to find, you know, because think about this, what sort of Christian would write a book where they just kind of make themselves the hero of the leadership book and nobody would do that, so.

With that, we say thanks for listening to No Compromise Radio. You can email us info at nocompromiseradio .com. Steve, I'm glad you're back on the air. Me too.