MSL: May 20, 2024

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The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live.

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Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm .org.

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When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live and I hope you're all having a good time.

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I had a good weekend, actually, in that I rested a lot. And I was whining to my wife,

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I don't feel like working, I don't feel like it. She just kind of, you know, wives don't give you much sympathy, you know.

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She just says, oh, you'll get over it. And she was, of course, right. But, yeah, that's what my wives, they know things.

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So nevertheless, hey, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

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I hope to hear from you. Give me a call. We already have two people waiting. And stuff like that.

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There we go, getting rid of all these files. I get a lot of files open. When I get working, I really work a lot, you know,

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I get files open. Sometimes when I turn my computer off, it takes a full minute just to turn all the computer programs off that I have running.

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I have to close this, close that, close this, close that. And then I can finally reboot the system, which,

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I'm an ex -computer tech, you should always reboot your computer at least once a week if you leave it on all the time. Restart, not turn it off.

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But restart, that's what you gotta do to clear out the cache. Okay, so anyway, there you go. And if you want to watch the show, it's easy to do.

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All you have to do is go to, or get to do whatever you want to do, is just go to karm .org forward slash radio.

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It'll give you links to things. You can go to Rumble, also rumble .com forward slash match slick live.

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You can also go to YouTube forward slash match slick live. And all one word, you should be able to get in there and watch me here on the show.

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It's not a big deal. But we do have people in Rumble. And what they do is, it's a lot of fun texting.

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There's some fun people in there. So that's what we're doing in there. Okay, and we don't have the audio in there.

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We should have the audio. Okay, I'll work on that. I'll work on the audio. I don't know what's going on right now. It should all be good, but we'll work it.

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All right, let's just get on the air with Juanita from Michigan. Welcome, you are on the air.

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Thank you, Matt, thank you. Just to preface, I am a non -trinitarian.

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I don't know if you remember that or not. But last week, you had asked me about Romans 10 .13.

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And I think you were building the case that call upon the name of the

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Lord meant to pray to Jesus, that we could pray to Jesus. And so I wanted to, all

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I had said at that time was the reasons why I felt it did not say that.

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But I'd like to address today what I feel it does say. So if I have your attention for a moment, maybe

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I could comment on that. So I have about five or six scripture, but I think it's important to go to the beginning of chapter 10, where -

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Hold on, hold on, be careful here. I don't want you to do a 10 -minute Bible study. No, no, no, this is real quick, real quick.

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All right. Just an overview, because you have to establish that what

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Paul is starting to talk about is about faith, about righteousness.

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He talks about the righteousness of man by the law and the righteousness of God by faith, faith in Jesus Christ.

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Because he says in verse four, for Christ is the end of the law. Christ even himself said,

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I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. So we move on to verse 13.

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But nine and 10 is important, because here's where Paul, I believe, makes the transition from faith, which is of the heart and confessing with the mouth.

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And this is crucial. In nine, there's three words in nine and 10, confess, mouth, and faith.

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And both those, mouth, salvation, it's in the heart, man believes.

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So faith comes in the heart, but there's another element that Paul is getting across to us, and that we need to confess with the mouth, our

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Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And so that, I believe, is what verse 13 is.

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Whosoever shall call upon the name, which means invoke the name,

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I'm proposing that that's what that means, is that whoever shall invoke the name of Jesus Christ shall be saved.

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There's something that I believe we need to do with the mouth, you know, to confess.

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Colossians and Ephesians, I'll finish up with that. We're told to, just real quick,

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I'll finish, we're to do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks always to God the

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Father, and then giving thanks always to God for everything, to God in the name of our

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Lord Jesus Christ. So that's kind of basically, and I think it's kind of interesting,

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Paul begins in verse one, he says, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved.

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So Paul even starts chapter 10 with his prayer to God. And there's so many other scriptures, like you say, this can't be a

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Bible study. Yeah, but I think you're missing the whole point. You see, the phrase in the

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Old Testament, call upon the name of Yahweh, is used only of God Almighty, right?

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The phrase, right? Call upon the name of Yahweh. Okay, and the

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Septuagint, which is the Greek translation done by the Jews, about 250 BC, they translated that phrase into the

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Hebrew, into the Greek, call upon the name of the Lord. So that whenever you have the phrase, call upon the name of the

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Lord, it's a reference to Yahweh, okay? So what I have to say about that is in chapter 17 of John, Jesus prays very earnestly about the name.

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About the name, he says, I protected them with your name, which you gave me. So yeah, no, well.

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You're not listening. I've done this hundreds of times with people, okay?

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So there's a phrase, call upon the name of Yahweh. The phrase, not just the word call, not the word name, not the word

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Lord, but call upon the name of Yahweh. I checked, there's variations of it, called on the name of Yahweh, calling on the name of Yahweh, but it's always a phrase used only of Yahweh, God Almighty.

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That's just how it is in the Old Testament. Can't get around it. That's what it is. All right, now the

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Septuagint, which is translated from the Hebrew into the Greek by the Jews, they didn't know who

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Jesus was, like 250 BC. They translated it as call upon the name of the

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Lord, Hakurias, the Lord. So the phrase in Greek, call upon the name of the

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Lord, is equivalent to call upon the name of Yahweh. That's just how it is, okay?

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You with me so far? Yes. The phrase, call upon the name of the

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Lord, is used of Jesus. Why would Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 -2, okay, when he says this to the saints and everyone everywhere who call upon the name of the

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Lord of us, Jesus. Yes, absolutely. Why would he use a phrase that is only in reference to Yahweh, God Almighty and applied to Jesus?

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Because Jesus was given the name above every other name that in his name, all should be done.

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Okay, so is the phrase, which is only addressed to Yahweh and then it's addressed to Jesus.

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Why would Paul use a phrase only addressed and means only to Yahweh and he's referring it to Jesus?

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Do you want to try that again? No, if you could, well, first of all, the

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Septuagint is just a translation, okay? We have to be careful of translation, all right?

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So it's, I don't know how many versions there are of the Septuagint, but it is only a translation.

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And the word Lord, the word Lord is used on many levels and referring to many different things.

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What I'm saying to you is that it's so important that you are missing the point here in Romans 10 that we are to, with our mouth, confess

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Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Yes, I got that, but you're not hearing.

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I said, not just the word Lord. In this reference, but you're diverting, you're diverting it.

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No, you are, Juanita. I said, it's the phrase, not just the word. And then you just, I said the phrase and you say the

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Septuagint is just a translation. It's what the Jews themselves did in their translation. That's how they understood it.

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And that phrase, which Paul used out of the Septuagint, he applied to Jesus. My question to you is very simple.

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Why would Paul the apostle use a phrase out of the Septuagint, which is in reference only to Yahweh and apply it to Jesus in 1

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Corinthians 1, verse 2? Why would he do that? What's your answer? Because we're to call on the name of Jesus Christ.

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We are not to pray to Jesus Christ. Okay, so here you go.

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I've done this a hundred times. The phrase, call upon the name of the Lord, okay, which is in Psalm 116, four, okay?

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And I'll read it to you, all right? This is gonna, this is difficult for you because I'm not trying to mock you.

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It's difficult. I've done this so many times with people. I know all the responses that they have.

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It says, then I called upon the name of Yahweh. Oh, Yahweh, I beseech you, save my life. It's a prayer to Yahweh to call upon his name.

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Right there is prayer in Psalm 116, four. That phrase in the

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Septuagint done by the Jews to call upon the name of the Lord. So it would be,

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I called upon the name of the Lord. Oh, Lord, I beseech you, save my life. So the phrase, call upon the name of the

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Lord, right there is referencing prayer to the Lord, Yahweh. And that phrase is applied to Jesus in 1

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Corinthians 1, 2. Why? The phrase, why? The phrase could be applied in many things, but what call upon the name of the

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Lord means call upon Jesus. It was a foreshadowing or whatever.

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But in verse 13 of Romans, Paul is not, as you suggested last week, inferring that we should be praying to Jesus.

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In verse 13, what he's saying is that we need to confess with our mouth our

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Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. That's what it's saying. But that's, I'm not talking about Romans 10.

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I'm talking about 1 Corinthians 1, verse 2. No, don't try to divert here. What we're talking about is last week.

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You said you pointed me to this scripture to kind of show that we can pray to Jesus.

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And I said, I know that's not what that means. Jesus told us quite plainly how to pray, to pray to the

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Father. Yeah, and he also said, ask me anything in my name and I will do it, John 14, 14. But look, so look, you deny that Jesus is

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God in flesh. That's what you just said. I'm just quoting John 14, 14. But look,

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I'm asking you a specific question. I know John 14. Read John 14. What did it say?

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It says that the word became flesh, not God became flesh. Yeah, and the word was

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God. It's called a law of proper inference, okay? If A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C.

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This is all it is. It's just basic logic. If you check the Greek on John 1, 1, it says that God was the word.

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There's something. Juanita, the phrase call upon the name of Yahweh is equal to the phrase call upon the name of the

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Lord. The phrase call upon the name of the Lord is used of Jesus. Why would Paul, the apostle, use a phrase that means worship, adoration, and prayer to the

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Lord and apply it to Jesus? There's a break. Can you come back and answer that specific question?

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Why would Paul use a phrase that designates prayer, adoration, and worship to God Almighty, Yahweh, and apply it to Jesus in 1

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Corinthians 1 -2? That's my question. Why don't we get back, okay? Hold on. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please.

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Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. As soon as they reactivate

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Juanita, I'll get her back on here. Hey, just want to let you know that we stay on the air by your support. Hey, we're just volunteer funded by the support of the listeners.

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If you like what you're hearing, please consider supporting us. All you have to do is go to carm .org,

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C -A -R -M dot O -R -G forward slash donate. All the info that you need is right there.

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We'd really appreciate it. Five or $10 a month is what we ask. And you know what? I'll just tell you really fast that the support that you give really does make a big difference because it keeps the lights on.

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We can help pay the missionaries, for example. And we have a guy in Nigeria who got beat up apparently by Muslims.

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I'm not exactly sure the exact story. His phone was stolen, some other stuff, and we support him. He goes out there and passes out literature.

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And so every bit of support that we have, you know, a certain percentage goes out to support the missionaries.

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We have another guy in Turkey. He's got a Turkish website now, and he is finishing up his master's degree.

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He speaks four languages. And so he'll be doing other languages as well. And he's awesome. We have a guy in Colombia, does

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Spanish, and we have meepi .org. And then we have another guy in Defend the Ofe, that's the name of the site, in Brazil.

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And he does the same thing, taking the Carm articles and putting them into other languages so that people in other languages all over the world are going and reading these things, and thousands per month are going there.

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So the support that you give us is not something that you're going to see, oh, hey, look, we have all these great stories. Well, we can try and get stories.

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But the thing is, it's just that, well, it's just not a ministry where you get a lot of reward for, at least not here.

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And so you can know that the support that you give helps the site go out.

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And Carm alone in the English has had 162 million visitors. 162 million.

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So there's a lot of visitors that go out there, and we're working on the site all the time. And so, hey, and then we do radio.

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So if you like what you hear, and you want to see us keep going, and you want to support, even if it's a little, which is fine, all you have to do is go to carm .org

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forward slash donate. And there you go. All right, so let's get back on with Juanita.

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Are you still there? I am. All right, so let's review the question. The phrase call upon the name of Yahweh is translated as call upon the name of the

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Lord. It only is a reference to God Almighty. It includes prayer. And that phrase is used about Jesus.

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Why would Paul do that if Jesus is not God? Okay, with all love and humility,

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Matt, I need to preface what I'm going to say that this is deceptively trying to confuse or divert the conversation away from Romans 10, 13.

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I only called in, this can be a very simple conversation, is that I called in about Romans 10, 13, because last week you threw that on the table as indicating that praying to Jesus.

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And I'm saying that the all of 10 is telling us that faith is in the heart, which brings righteousness.

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But to be saved, we need to confess with our mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord. So whoever shall call upon the name of the

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Lord shall be saved. And that's all I want to say is that this is not referring to praying to Jesus.

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So the phrase on Romans 10, 13, whoever calls upon the name of the Lord, who's the

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Lord? Is it Yahweh or is it Jesus? I believe here it's referring to Jesus Christ and what he did.

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Okay, so the phrase call upon the name of the Lord, which is equivalent in the

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Septuagint to call upon the name of Yahweh, is here referred to Jesus, according to you. The word

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Lord can refer to a master. It can refer to many things.

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You're not listening. The phrase, I'll say it like I do with a lot of people who give me the same answer you do. And this is what

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I do with them. I'll say the phrase, P -H -R -A -S -E. The phrase call upon the name of the

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Lord, not the word call, not the word name, not the word Lord by itself. The phrase call upon the name of the

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Lord. The phrase. I have to say it over and over and over again. And what you've done is you said, well, the word

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Lord means this. Well, of course it does in different contexts. But the phrase only means one thing.

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That's what I'm talking about. So the phrase. It means the first couple of words in chapter, in verse nine, if thou shall confess with thy mouth the

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Lord Jesus, okay? If we, whoever shall call upon the name or invoke the name is what it means here.

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It does not mean we are to pray to Jesus. Then why does the phrase mean praying to God in the

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Old Testament? Oh, it could, of course it means pray. We're to do everything.

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No, no, no, no. Is it not true? It's almost 16. Why do we all? Why do we always end our prayers with in the name of our

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Lord and Savior Jesus? We pray to God. Right. We invoke that name.

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We we invoke the name of Jesus. Any who invoke the name of Jesus.

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Juanita. And that. Yep. Juanita, Juanita, you're not submitting to the word of God.

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You're rebelling against it. the phrase in the Old Testament always and only refers to God Almighty the phrase and You said right here.

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The phrase is in reference in Romans 10 13th reference to Jesus. I Agree the name is reference to Jesus the name not to Jesus called upon the name of name the name of the

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Lord Anita We need a call upon the name of the Lord is in the Old Testament always means call upon Yahweh Always call upon the name of the

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Lord. It means to call upon Yahweh It means to pray to him.

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I've written a very in -depth article on this You can go to my website and you can look up the phrase call upon the name of the

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Lord out of 1st Corinthians 1 2 I've done a very extensive Study on this

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This is proof that you are wrong It's proof also that you don't submit to the

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Word of God and I can prove it another way as well Very simply because you deny that Jesus is

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God in flesh We so are we and we can move on another time. You can give me something else

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But right now something else are we going to right now? Are we going to acknowledge that verse 13 is is referring back to verse 9 and 10?

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That if we can Jesus I'm out the Lord Jesus Yes Thou shalt be saved

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For with the heart man believes unto righteousness. We have to have faith and with the mouth

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Confession is faith unto salvation. So do we agree that here calling upon the name?

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Means invoking the name of our Lord doesn't mean praying to him in this birth No No, I don't say that.

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Oh, so you're still saying that this verse says we should pray to Jesus Well the phrase whatever it says that in the

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Old Testament includes prayer adoration Yes, it does Have you studied it?

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I understand it. I understand it. It's quoting the Old Testament What's what's the verse?

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It's quoting Joel 2 32 Look at Joel It's a

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Juanita Juanita, it's referring. It's a quote from the Old Testament It's a quote the scripture look at verse 11.

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The scripture says whoever believes in him will not be disappointed That's a reference from Isaiah 28 16 for there's no distinction between Jew and Greek for the same

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Lord is Lord over all Abounding in richness for all who call on him. Whoever calls on the name of the

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Lord will be saved. That's a another quote That's from Joel 2 32 and it's

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Yahweh You need to study so are you I need to repent to your false doctor

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Okay Okay, am I gonna go call back quick come back, okay.

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All right Hey folks, I'll be right back after these messages.

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Oh, man It's Matt slick live taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six, here's

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Matt slick All right, I wouldn't welcome back to the show. Hope you enjoyed that little report a

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Before the break. All right, it's good to whoops. Yeah Jamal. Hey Jamal. Welcome, man. You're on the air

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Hey, but it's like I would ask how you doing back to that last call kind of have an idea Well, you know,

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I actually enjoy it. I would have kept going if it wasn't for callers waiting I would just gradually turn the fire up on her because there's stuff that she can't answer and Romans 10 13 is a quote from Joel 2 to 32, which is about Yahweh.

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I mean and she said it was Jesus What are you gonna do, you know? Yeah Yeah, you have some long patience and no offense to you miss what he just did to listen it's just you know,

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I Don't know. I don't really like to go back and forth with Matt slick on the radio

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He's you know, he knows his stuff, you know Maybe that could be a conversation off off air, but I digress

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Had a question about And I don't know the script, but I'll have to just quote it

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Teach a child in the way But the board and you shall not depart from it.

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Yeah purpose 22 6 Okay, all right good, thanks So not a gotcha question.

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I'm just wondering so According to that scripture and how it goes how

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What would you say to kids who have been taught about the Lord who were younger but then later on Went away from the

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Lord. How would you how would you address that? like my daughters we raised them in the ways of the

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Lord and This is a wisdom statement not a formula for for absolutes

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That's how you have to understand it. You train up, you know, and they'll stay if you do a good job Well, did

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I not do a good job did my wife and I not do a good job it's something we wrestle with and One of our child children's an atheist another one is is not and just kind of whatever and the other one claims to be a

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Christian But she's not really walking really well right now and which happens, you know, so We we trained him up.

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So what I do is I just say well Lord They're in your hands because he's the one who grants that they have repentance and comes to faith

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And it's between God and them we did our job. We've certainly failed at some areas, you know

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I mean not say we did everything perfectly but We did that and we're just trusting that God will bring them bring them back.

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That's all And I'm sorry to hear about daughters, you know,

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I'll be sure to pray for them as well So this is a Wisdom statement and not a formulaic statement or like a guarantee greatest

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It's like the next verse, you know The rich rules over the poor and the borrower becomes the lenders slave

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He who sows iniquity will reap vanity or the you know a verse before it Thorns and snares are the way of the perverse

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He who guards himself will be far from them train up your child in a way He should go and so, you know, according to his way it was says even when he's old.

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He'll not depart from it So there's the we can also interpret a different way, but the basic idea is is there it's a wisdom statement

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That's all Okay, all right and quick follow -up because I try to pose these questions to you know

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Answer questions for non -believers if they ever pose Sometimes I do that sometimes just for my edification

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So if somebody would it would say okay, well Jamal prove that it's a wisdom statement and not a formulaic statement

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How could I prove that to them read the context because Proverbs are wisdom statements?

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It's just that that's what Proverbs is it's poetry So in Hebrew, there's a poetic style and form

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This is what Psalms is it's because it's it's singing, you know in written form here and Proverbs are just wisdom statements

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Like we go to Proverbs 8 it talks about wisdom and talks about wisdom being female

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You know, she will this she will that it's it's not literal

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It's wisdom statements And that's what you know train of the child in the way. She should go.

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He's old. He'll not depart from it it's a general wisdom statement and That's what it is

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So if you do that things should work out But they don't always because God's the sovereign king and we know in the scriptures there are plenty of people who are raised by Godly parents and you know in the

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Old Testament, you know with the Dave and his children Things went up went badly. You know that David raised him in the ways of the

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Lord. So this is wisdom general wisdom statements That's what's going on Gotcha gotcha.

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Thanks. You are good at what you do say. I don't mean that in a small way, but You know, it's this definite y 'all truth

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Network Well, you know since you mentioned the truth Network, I always recommend people

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Let them know you know email the truth Network and just whatever station you're listening to or from on and The people that you like on the shows that you appreciate it's good to email them and just say hey

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I want to thank you for putting these so -and -so on the air really appreciate it I'm so -and -so from you know, whatever list on this station.

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It's very good feedback And so if you have if you like, you know, I'm singing for everybody, you know if you like me email if you like the other shows and stuff email about them because there's a lot of good teachers on and I'm surprised that they lowered the standard to have me on because I remember

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What are you thinking? You know, but there you go We gotta work on that.

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No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding, but It's all right, man. I'm chuckling. Well, that means that means you got good judgment there if you're said you're surprised, too

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I'd be and it also could mean it's must be pretty bad out there If God's got a lower his standard so much to work with me.

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I mean, yeah, you know, it's bad out. Oh, no No, no, we have high standards by getting you on but uh,

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I don't hope the line I'll talk to you later. Mr. Flick and God bless. God bless you too, man. God bless

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All right, all right now let's get to Chris from California Chris welcome you're on the air

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Good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking the time Talk to me and I appreciate everything on your show and it's just it's such a great great wealth of information and The website so thank you for all of your dedication to that So, I don't know if there's a black -and -white answer to this question but I've been looking over the last week and different sources and Trying to find out when

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Jesus was in the tomb for three days Who did he rescue and who did he preach to?

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Okay, so there's different responses that have been offered four main ones and I had them all written down in my

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Bible that I used During seminary lost the Bible. So I've lost all four of those but the there are the basics of of it is this

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You go to first Peter 3 18 for Christ also died once for all The just for the unjust so that he might bring us to God having been put to death in the flesh

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But made alive in the spirit in which he also went made Proclamation to the spirits now in prison

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Who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting so people say well, okay, so he wouldn't made proclamation

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When did he do that? It looks like it was during that three -day period Because it says he was put to death in the flesh made alive in the spirit.

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So it's about that time Okay, now did he preach it to them so they can get saved? It doesn't appear to be the case because Hebrews 9 27 says was it 26 27?

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Says it's appointed to meant to die once then judgment. So there's no second chances for the court of the

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Scriptures furthermore if you go to Luke 16 19 to 31

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It talks about Lazarus and the rich man and when it's not a parable because there's a proper name and it says they went to this

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You know once a good place one of the bad place. They're conscious. They're alive and things like that All right So paradise is the hold was it the theory goes was the holding place of the righteous those who died in faith?

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And they couldn't go to heaven because Christ's blood had not yet been offered so they were not cleansed

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Ceremonially all of that so they couldn't enter they were in the in the paradise the holding place now having said that Now you go to Ephesians 4 verse 8

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Therefore it says when he ascended on high he led captive a host of captives and he gave gifts to men

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Now this expression he ascended. What does it mean? Except that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth who descended is himself

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Also, he is sent who ascended far above the heavens that he might fill all things and then it goes on.

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So The theory the basic theory. This is the one I hold to and I mean,

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I'm not saying I'd die in this hill But it appears to be that what Jesus did it when is between the period of his death and resurrection

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Was he went and made proclamation? Proclaim what was going on preach that gospel to people to inform them to let them know what's going on They couldn't repent at that point because it's too late because of Hebrews 9 27 and then it looks like He went to paradise

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Proclaimed what was going on preached to them to told him what was going on and then led them into the heavenlies because his blood

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Had been sacrificed and it went there and then reentered his body later. That's the main theory.

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Okay Hmm, very interesting. Is that where is that where the

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Catholic Church gets the idea of purgatory from no They get out of first 23 15 we got a break.

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So hold on we'll get to you after the break. I'll talk about purgatory a little bit I'll show you where they get it from and which is not there.

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But hey, hold on. Hey folks. There you go Last break coming up of the hour if you want to give me a call eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six

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We'll be right back It's Matt slick live taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six, here's

34:15

Matt slick All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show Chris are you still there?

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Yes. I am still here and anxiously awaiting to continue this Okay, and I was wrong.

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Actually I quoted the wrong verse. It's first Corinthians 3 15 if any man's work is burned up He shall suffer loss, but he himself will be saved

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Yet as through fire So the Catholics will routinely say that this is in reference to purgatory

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But it's not in reference to purgatory notice what it says, I'll read a little bit

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Before it so we get the context now if any man builds on the foundation with gold silver precious stones wood

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Hey strew a strew Wow straw each man's work will become evident

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For the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire and the fire

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Itself will test the quality of each man's work if a man's work which he has built on it remains

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He'll receive a reward if any man's work is burned up. He'll suffer loss, but he himself will be saved yet as through fire

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So it's what he's saying there the works aren't what save you But the reward and loss of reward is what's going on the purifying fires now

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There's that doesn't mean literal fire Because the theme of purification of fire is found in the

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New Testament for example in 2nd Peter 3 10 through 13 The day of Lord come like a thief etc

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New heavens new earth where they intense heat and fire occurs also in 1st

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Corinthians 4 5 which says Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time but wait till the

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Lord appears will bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of the hearts and Each man's praise will come from him will come from God because he's talking about the issue of passing judgment on our works

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So the idea here that is talking about in 1st Corinthians 3 15 is not about earning salvation or Going to purgatory.

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It's simply an illusion of our works being judged and being what's purified because in In fire they understood the dross would come with us the surface of metal that was being

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Burned and they would get rid of it. Whatever's good stays and that's what's going on.

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Okay Interesting fascinating it's Really helpful.

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Thank you for for the clarification on that. They said there's so many different different different approaches on that like you said and I even posed the question to a very dear friend of mine.

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Who's a Jehovah's Witness just to see what his response was in boy.

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That was something else. He said well Jesus was dead. I Said well, what about when he said that for the people on the cross today?

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You will be with me in paradise. How do you guys reconcile that? So it's just a great way to continue the conversation

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You know actually the conversation I had with Juanita beforehand one of the great

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Things to witness with Jehovah's Witnesses is out of 1st Corinthians 1 2 and I'd recommend you go to read that article and if you could talk to your

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Jehovah's Witness friend and you can just ask him And go to Psalm 116 for what is the phrase mean call upon the name of Jehovah?

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And those it will be to pray and say yeah, that's right And then the Septuagint it the phrases is into the

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Greek call upon the name of the Lord Which means it's a phrase only used of Yahweh and it's applied to Jesus and I ask him why?

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Is it applied to Jesus? and okay, and Sometimes if and what people say they try and they try and get quicker and slicker than me

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And they'll say well it because he was given authority or almost. I mean Matthew 28 18

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So yeah, you want you've made under the law Galatians 4 4 and so if he has all the authority Then do you go to him?

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Do you pray to him like he says? Ask me anything in my name and I don't do it you go to the one who has the authority and then they're stuck

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So anyway, okay. Yeah, you know very good. Thank you so much and God bless you and your whole staff and everybody there

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I just really appreciate everything you guys do Hey praise God and we could use your prayers.

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Really. We do need those prayers a lot of them Okay, you you got it. You got it.

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All right, man Thanks a lot. God bless. All right. Now, let's get back to Juanita.

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Okay. All right, what do you know? Well, thank you, I feel bad taking up your time when there are other people who have really important questions to answer

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You know, but he's waiting but it's just you and me I Want you to know

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I truly respect your scholarship. I really do Except on the concept of the

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Trinity, that's my bailiwick, okay but your scholarship is not to be downplayed at all and I don't mean to Infer that I don't respect it, but I only called back to to kind of clarify my take on Prayer and the way

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I could explain it is I talk with Jesus But I pray to God like Jesus taught me to do and that was really

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I mean Jesus clearly told me how to pray and so but I talked with Jesus and that was all

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I wanted to say Okay, I appreciate your time. I Got a question. Okay, you talk to him.

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I mean you you you say Lord you say Jesus you talk to him Is that what you're doing? I? Talk with Jesus.

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Yes Okay So do other people do that as well I Have no idea

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Well, I mean, I do know that people all over the world Talk to Jesus Okay, so I hope so Okay, good.

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Then. Are you saying that Jesus can hear millions of prayers simultaneously spoken and thought in different languages all the same time

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You asked that question before I don't think it deserves, you know any answer to be honest with you

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But I did just want to say that why no answer It's a good question.

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I'm just taking what you're saying and applying it and and if it's not a good question Please show me why it's not a good question to ask something specifically based on what you said

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I have no idea what goes on in the eternal realm, which is

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I believe where Jesus is right now I have I have no clue with him sitting at the right hand of the father, you know, what what?

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You know what what that's all about But I do know that Jesus taught me to pray to God He said it several times and that's the only issue that you and I are having right now

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I got that and he do we should pray to God the father. That's not an issue The issue is you said you talk with him

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Okay, so then that means that he can hear you Well, you're not the only one and you said others do it

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Well now you're saying that Jesus can hear millions of prayers simultaneously spoken and thought in different languages all over the world

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That's what you're saying Yeah, yeah, and and I mean it doesn't

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And I get an answer. I believe he said I won't leave you comfortless

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I will send the Holy Spirit the father the father will send and so that still small voice inside That that when you're open to the

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Spirit of God We get answers and whether it's coming from Jesus or God I talk with Jesus and that's all

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I can say. I just wanted to express that. Yes. I'm not in a Confrontational, you know point right now

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But okay, but I'm just saying that what you're saying is implying his deity since you're saying

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Jesus now can hear millions of prayers simultaneously spoken and thought all over the world That's what you're

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I told you I if I had to guess I Would say yes, but I don't know

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Okay. Well, then here's a here's a letter verse. I think might be interesting for you to examine, you know, and over the

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Me and maybe I can great Okay, this is a different verse, okay, we know that God the

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Father and it can indwell us, right Yeah, cuz I think we've beat that the last one to death

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God in and dwells us. Okay indwell. Okay. Yeah, he lives in us, right?

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Would you agree? Excuse me? Would you agree God the Father God he he lives in us, right?

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in true Christians, right So What we're told is

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I I don't know where you're going with that but but go ahead what I know is that Is that I am one with God through Jesus Christ Jesus prayed to the

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Father. He said you and me and I and them that our unity may be complete

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Okay, so I know that I am one with God Through Jesus Christ, so I just have to stand on the scripture now whether it's oh good

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Scripture then stand on John 14 23 Jesus says if anyone loves me he will keep my word and my father will love him and We will come to him and make our abode with him

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So what sure this Amen, what Jesus is saying? Is that God the Father and dwells the believers and that Jesus does to just like the

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Father does? The Holy Spirit does too. Well, look good What that's what the whole thing is about But yeah, it's yet Go ahead question

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Are you then admitting that Jesus himself indwells millions of people just like God does?

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Well again what scripture said what Jesus prayed is that the

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Father in him and him in me That I am one with God That's okay.

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So now whatever that means that's John 17. This is John 14

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Jesus says he and the Father will come and make their abode with you We know God can indwell people got it.

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Now. Jesus is saying he's doing it the same as God the Father is How do you explain that if he's not

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God No, no, you're you're Jesus is saying he indwells us you're saying that he could hear millions of prayers simultaneously

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Jesus says he's indwelling people all millions of people. So how do you explain that?

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By way of the Spirit of God. See Jesus had the fullness of the Spirit Okay, Jesus had the fullness of the

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Spirit and I have says hopefully some of the Spirit But I'm not full of the

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Spirit like Jesus was I have the character of the world and I have other things at district

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Jesus was in complete communion with God complete communion How the father lives in us

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Jesus How is it that Jesus can also live in millions of people like like he says he does like the same way the father does

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How come he does that John 14 23? Why does he say that? Because of the indwelling of the

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Spirit He's not gonna leave me comfortless That's John 14 26 18 26, but that's that's right.

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See what he says here is that I can you my can He and the

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Father will live in you Jesus is claiming to indwell people equally with God the

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Father John 14 23, how does he do that if he's not God? You know by way of the

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Spirit it doesn't say that and and it's not that he is God I mean Jesus You know, it is so it is so important that that that You know,

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I your heart should be heavy for for Continuing this concept of the

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Trinity, you know How many people have refused salvation the

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Jew particularly because of it? Yeah, you haven't refused the

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Trinity we can talk about it and we can we can debate it sometimes you want to do a little Discussion, but I'll show you how what the

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Trinity's arrived at and no one's been able to refute it Now the thing I've asked you is very specific Specifically, okay,

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John is John 14 23 Why is it that Jesus claims to be able to indwell people equally with God the

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Father millions of people? Obviously, I will I will I will I will

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Meditate and pray on that and I'll call next week, but I hope that we we buried we buried the

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Are you still there? Yes Well, we're out of time, but you haven't been able to answer the other question either

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First Corinthians 1 to call upon the name of the Lord, but we are out call call back. We'll figure it out. Okay. Okay There we go, hey folks out of time, sorry about the rush talk to you tomorrow another program powered by the truth