Michael Brown, Benny Hinn, PC&D, on the Dividing Line

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:45

And welcome to The Dividing Line, my name is James White, and my sincere thanks to the men of Gray Level.

00:51

You're listening to our new theme song, which is all ours. In fact, it was really funny. Who was it?

00:57

I'm trying to get Twitter to come up via Hootsuite, and Hootsuite just will not work for me now for some reason.

01:03

Anyways, yeah, it's dead. It will not come up. But someone on Twitter had actually knew the name for that theme that we had had before that we had stolen from YouTube, which was free stuff.

01:16

Oh, I'd gotten used to it, and then they named the name. What was it called? I forget what it was called. You knew it at one point.

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But anyways, nobody else has that because that was written for us. And I just want to thank the guys at Gray Level because it is so encouraging to me when a group that is made up of busy individuals who have much to be doing take their time to use their talents to do something specifically for us.

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I think that's extremely exciting. And we'll just have to play the whole thing sometime because it's actually about two and a half minutes long,

01:47

I think, something like that, called Scottish Morning is what it's called. And that sort of fits some of us in the in the group, but only me.

01:56

Anyways, welcome to The Dividing Line. I am got so much to do today and I'm feeling a little scattered, to be perfectly honest with you, because I have so much to try to get to in this period of time.

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And some of my technology is failing me and I don't know why. But, oh, great.

02:21

So maybe just none of us here at the ministry will be able to use that any longer.

02:28

Maybe it's a blocked port or something. I don't know. That's problematic.

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Anyway, yesterday on the line of fire,

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Michael Brown. Yeah, all every browser I'm using is saying non -responsive, kill that page.

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So that's there. What's that? We're dead?

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Oh, there is. Oh, OK, that's that's red. See, red's red saying there is no feed.

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And so, you know, he's you know, there is no feed for him. He can't listen at work. Oh, OK. Well, that's

03:10

OK. Oh, OK. Nothing like getting started with with the appropriate assistance here.

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Yesterday on line of fire, Michael Brown responded to the article that I had posted on our website.

03:29

You might want to, if you're listening live, even if you're not listening live, if you're listening even on the podcast, if you have the opportunity of doing this,

03:36

I have actually put up a blog post today and it is entitled

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Materials. It is titled, not entitled. It is titled Materials for Today's Dividing Line, which is really very imaginative on my part.

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But there is a video clip again from Kiev, Ukraine, with Benny Hinn.

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And then there is the Phillips, Craig and Dean statement. And believe it or not, they are related.

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Yes, they are related. Believe it or not, we will hopefully be able to bring them together.

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But the screenshot is really interesting because you've got a guy halfway down.

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He's going down. Hinn's waved his magical hand and the guy's going down. And you've got people strewn about the the platform already in key places that have been slain the spirit, quote unquote.

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Oh, there's even a couple of people in the choir, too, that are down and out. And I think he's just trying to balance everything out as to where everyone's laying,

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I guess. But anyway, I may try to play some clips from that.

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I didn't have really the opportunity of looking at the times, but there were some fascinating things that we might want to look at in what was going on there.

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I want to respond to a couple of things that Michael said. I basically

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I wrote what I wrote in response to a specific clip.

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And unfortunately, Michael did not respond to the fact that I was specifically looking at Benny Hinn's materials.

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And his. Activities on the stage, which included waving his his jacket at people and knocking over rows full of people and his screaming at people and and yelling, receive, receive and and all the the stuff that is just the standard

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Benny Hinn shtick, even when it's being translated into other languages. And the fact that I was basically saying, where does the

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Bible teach us that the anointing? Because he specifically said in the clip, he said, these young people didn't come to hear me preach.

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They came to get the anointing. And the whole point of my article was that if we define things scripturally.

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If we look at the biblical definition of terms, whatever is going on in these things is not the anointing.

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Call it something else. Say, well, we're just using that word because we like how it sounds. Just be honest about it.

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Don't say this is what the Bible teaches the anointing is, because that's not what the anointing is.

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Now, Michael said, well, look, Jesus was anointed to do all of these things, and therefore we should do the same things.

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Well, Jesus was anointed to go to the cross, but we can't go to the cross. And the idea that, well, you know, if you're in Christ and you do all the things that Christ did, well, actually, he said, you do greater things than these.

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And what does that mean? He redeemed the world. So what does that mean? Obviously, greater has to be a category thing.

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It's not more miraculous. It's not more crazy. It's not more wild from the world's perspective. We see dead sinners coming to life all the time.

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That's called salvation. We see the sinful flesh being mortified by the spirit of God.

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That's the regular ministry of the Holy Spirit of God amongst us. And so what

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I was trying to say was, look, when I watch this stuff, when

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I see this type of stuff going on, in fact, let me just ask you, since it's on the blog, are you able to play that?

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No? You can't play something that's on the blog? Can't play a YouTube video that's on the blog, huh?

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I could try. But it could have very disastrous results. Remember, I'm taking baby steps.

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We just exchanged a router out around here yesterday. Thou shalt not press it to the limit.

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Okay. Hootsuite finally came up.

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That's nice. And someone's asking when it's on today. Yeah, I think that was a Hootsuite problem because a tweet deck popped right up for me.

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Yeah, well. Can't blame it on me. Well, okay. Anyway, the whole emphasis of my article was not to give an exhaustive treatise on the entire work of the

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Spirit of God. My point was to say, here's Benny Hinn saying, receive the anointing, receive the anointing, receive the anointing.

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And I go, where does the Bible define the anointing as being at a crusade?

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This isn't the local church. This isn't the church, which the pillar and foundation of the truth. This is some extra church gathering where money is not going into local churches, but going into something else.

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And here you've got a man. I don't think that I am in any way, shape or form misinformed that he is a millionaire, that he lives in luxury, that he flies the world in his own private jet.

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That he has a staff of many, many people, many of whom are running around this room at his commands.

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You get him, you get him, you put him there, you put him there, take the key up here, get rid of that security guy over there.

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He is large in charge and he is pretending, and I say pretending, to control the manifestation, the

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Spirit of God by knocking people over and calling that the anointing. And that's not what the

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Bible says the anointing is. And if you say it is, show me, show me where the

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Bible says that's the anointing. Even going to Jesus saying he is anointed to preach good news and open the eyes of the blind has nothing to do with what's going on in the

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Benny Hinn crusade. I didn't see anybody with blind eyes open. I didn't see anybody raised from the dead.

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Okay. So that's what I was talking about, is if we look at what the anointing is, then

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I asked, what is the result of the Spirit's presence in someone's life? And Michael agreed with me. He agreed with me that discipline and order, paideia, training in the sense of being disciplined by the

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Lord in godliness, that all of that is part of the presence of the Holy Spirit of God.

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I, again, I'm just looking right now at the screenshot of what's going on here.

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I don't see order outside of Benny Hinn giving orders. I see no communication of the gospel here.

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You're saying, well, that was earlier. I wonder why they don't post that stuff. I mean, it seems what people want to see are the people laid out on the stage and falling over under the power of God.

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And Benny keeps saying, the power of God's all over this person. How do you know that? How do you know that?

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Because, you see, it's not just Christians that can do this. Non -Trinitarians fall over in the

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Spirit. There are Mormons that talk about miracles they've seen. There are spiritual manifestations amongst the

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Muslims and the Buddhists and the Hindus. How do you determine the Spirit of God? Isn't there something in the Bible about discerning spirits?

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If this isn't specifically, and Michael keeps saying, well, you know, when people repent of their sins, they cry out to God for mercy.

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I don't see anybody doing that here. I don't see anybody doing that here. I didn't. Where's anything about the gospel and about holiness?

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I've got ladies in dresses laid out on the ground. That's, I don't know, doesn't strike me as orderly or anything of the kind.

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There's a vast difference. And see, one of the major differences between a charismatic and a non -charismatic is the charismatic makes the primitive, immature state of the church normative for the entirety of the church history.

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This was clearly done when Michael pointed to Pentecost. People thought they were drunk on Pentecost.

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That's because they heard different voices, not because the people were flopping around the ground. Where is the evidence that the apostles or anybody else was slain in the

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Spirit and flopping around the ground? I see no evidence of that at all.

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What they didn't understand is how these people, why these people were out and why they were speaking languages they didn't understand. It has nothing to do with they were undisciplined.

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And as soon as Peter responds, his sermon is a very disciplined sermon, isn't it? So if you take the day of Pentecost, if you take the very primitive church prior to the writing of the

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New Testament and say it's always going to have to be that way, then you cannot allow any type of maturing to take place in the church.

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And that's why it's interesting that Michael cited Corinthians as, here's what the

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New Testament church service looked like. Why go to Corinth, the church with the biggest problems in all the

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New Testament? Why make them normative? Well, because it would have been the same everywhere, was it?

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Doesn't seem to have been the case in Ephesus. Doesn't seem to be the case in Ephesus.

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In fact, when we look at the letters to the seven churches, what do we learn from them?

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There is a whole lot of discerning going on. Some of the churches are rebuked because they were not discerning and were allowing people to speak and to be active that should not have been.

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But all of this is still during the time of the giving of Scripture. Is there no proper and appropriate place to go, you know, once the canon of Scripture is delivered, don't you think that's going to have an impact on how the church functions?

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From the charismatic perspective, I can't see how they can say that it would. But logically, rationally, and biblically,

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I can't see how you can say how it wouldn't. Because if we agree that the period of inscripturation was a special time and that there's no more

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Scripture. Now, if you believe that there's Scripture being written in it, and if you actually believe when people say, Thus saith the Lord, they really mean,

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Thus saith the Lord, and that your Bible is many, many, many volumes long, then at least you're consistent.

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But most of my charismatic friends don't believe that. They actually believe the canon's closed. They don't believe there's any further revelation. Hmm. Well, then, you don't, it's not really,

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Thus saith the Lord. Well, it's a different kind. And that's where the problems start coming in. That's where the problems start coming in.

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Because, well, A, just in response to what Michael said in response to me, I just don't think that my argument that I was presenting in reference to a specific

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Benny Hinn clip was really responded to. He basically says, Well, you know, D.

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Martin Lloyd -Jones said that when the Holy Spirit brings revival, the whole person's touched.

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Well, I don't disagree with that. I just don't think that that changes anything about what the Bible says, that the result is discipline in a person's life.

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How many of these people who are laid out on the stage are more disciplined in their spiritual lives as a result of having been laid out on that stage?

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And how could they be? Because biblically, historically, what we have taught is what?

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How is worship accomplished in the church? It is the ministry of the

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Spirit and the Word. You communicate God's truth, which is made alive in the heart of His people by the

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Spirit of God. Every time that I lead the pastoral prayers at the church on Sunday morning,

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I pray that the Holy Spirit would gather with His people and make that time profitable for us and glorifying to God the

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Father. We recognize we can do nothing outside of the Spirit. But the miracle of the

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Spirit's gathering with His people is that we can have one message.

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We just got into Romans 9. We've been going through the Book of Romans. Past Fridays we've been preaching the Romans. I've been preaching through Hebrews in the mornings.

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And we just got into Romans 9. And so the last sermon was on the first few verses where Paul says,

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I could wish to be accursed for the sake of my brethren. I have unceasing grief in my heart.

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We were talking about praying for those that are lost and all those things are related to that. So there's one message.

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Have you ever noticed that one message can end up ministering to all sorts of different needs in a congregation of diverse people?

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That's a miracle. That's a miracle. That's supernatural. Now you may just see it so often that you get used to it, but it's supernatural.

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The world doesn't. It's just all, you know, whatever. But that's a supernatural thing.

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But it is the Word and the Spirit. I'm not seeing the Word here. You may say, oh, the

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Word was preached beforehand. But the Word is not being preached here. There's nothing about the

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Word here. And so I was responding to a specific activity and saying, this isn't biblical.

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This is not biblical. And by the way, he said he did this. Mike said to me, or Mike said about me, you know, he did this because I was on Benny Hinn.

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Well, partly, but the main reason, honestly, that I did this was because I saw, while I was looking at Benny Hinn stuff,

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I saw Kyiv, Ukraine. And I'm going to be there next month. And so I'm like, wow,

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I'd like to be able to ask the gentleman there, was anybody there? What's been the results of this?

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And that's why I went to this was because that's where I'm going in just a matter of weeks.

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So I wanted to be a little bit more prepared. Go ahead and put the computer up here.

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I'm going to, if you're listening, go to the materials for the dividing line.

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I'm just going to fire it up here. I'm going to skip through some things. I'll let you know where I am so you can see for yourself if you want.

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But this is called Pastor Benny Hinn Releasing the Anointing, Kyiv, Ukraine. So it's not the

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Spirit of God that releases the anointing. It's Pastor Benny Hinn. And by the way, the people who came here, let me ask you a simple question.

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This is one of the big issues I have. Is my charismatic friends take what should be the exception and make it the rule.

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Come expecting a miracle. That means it's not a miracle. If it can be produced, in what percentage of Benny Hinn's campaigns does this happen?

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I want to know. Anyone want to guess? Anyone in the chat channel? Want to guess, percentage -wise, in what percentage of Benny Hinn crusades, where you've got the choir, you've got the music, whole thing set up, in what percentage at the end do you have

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Benny Hinn walking around knocking people over with the Holy Spirit? Isn't that what's supposed to happen?

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Isn't that pretty much always? If this was the Spirit of God, it would be, and if it was a miracle, it would be a rarity.

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What you'd have is you'd have in the vast majority of the instances, you would have the ministry of the

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Word. It would be the ministry of the

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Word. It would be focused upon Biblical exegesis and the communication of God's truth to God's people.

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That's what the Spirit of God has given us in Scripture. And it would not be stories and tear -jerking stuff and somebody sitting at a synthesizer in the background doing the music thing to match

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Benny's current tear -jerking story about sowing seed to the ministry. It would be serious

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Biblical teaching. And then if there was the amazing time, do you remember the time when this happened?

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You see, the people coming here would walk out grossly disappointed if this didn't happen every single time.

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The Spirit of God on cue. And my point is, what

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I'm watching is Benny Hinn and his staff orchestrating this.

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They're working it. There are people in the audience. They're starting to fall back at the right time.

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It is an absolute set -up. Don't call that the Spirit of God when it happens every single time.

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Don't call it the Spirit of God. That's just blasphemy. I'm sorry, it's blasphemy. So, let's look at this.

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I can't hear that. Very, very, very, very, very, very low.

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That means I'm proud I can be able to hear callers too. We've unplugged something that needs to be plugged in. Well, first of all,

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I think, I can barely hear it, but I think Benny is singing here.

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And we have everybody very expectant. It's still, now

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I can't talk to myself because now I'm blowing my own ears off. Well, we'll have to skip that until we didn't realize that something had gotten unplugged and I can't hear what's coming through the soundboard anymore.

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So, we'll have to fix that. Anyways, well, if you listen to the rest of it, if you watch the rest of it, you will see that, again,

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Benny Hinn is very much in charge. He's giving me that person, that lady in the orange, that guy right there.

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And as soon as they come up, I mean, he barely even gets up to them and they're falling all over the place. There's nothing about forgiveness, redemption, justification, holiness, repentance.

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Zip, zero, nada. It is all a show. It's all a hyper -emotional show.

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It's so very clear. No, no, move him over there. No, put him over there. So, they're spread out where they should be.

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I'm sorry. Once you start doing that and once you start doing the thing with the coat and start knocking people over, that's no longer even close to what the

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Holy Spirit is all about. Not even close. Not even close. Now, here's what

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I wanted to get into. And time's passing us by, I'm sorry. What Michael said on the program was, well, look,

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I've really taken a lot of heat for going on the Benny Hinn Show and I only managed to get one program downloaded this morning.

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I was complaining about how slow the feed speed was and somebody in channel said, you need to sow your seed to get a better speed.

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I haven't sowed any seed that direction, so I guess that's why I didn't get it. Michael basically was saying, look,

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I prayed about this. This was a great opportunity. In fact, he kept saying, remind me about the

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Nineveh thing. But I only got around to it in the second hour. Let's listen to what he said in the second hour.

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And I've heard it before, so maybe I'll be able to hear enough of it to be able to respond to it. You know, there's some people very upset with me for being on Benny Hinn's broadcast.

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And they love me, they respect my ministry, and they think very poorly of Benny Hinn. And they tell me

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I shouldn't do it. Of course, I did not want to offend anyone, did not want to give more fuel to the fire of those who are already critical, and certainly not upset those that love the ministry we're doing and think that it was compromised to do it.

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Again, I've shared the reasons for it, the prayerful, informed reasons, nothing to do with ignorance or lack of discernment, but rather prayerful, informed decisions for doing it.

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But has it dawned on you, aside from the open door to get to know Benny Hinn better and interact with him, hopefully in a fruitful way, has it dawned on you that I've been able to speak to perhaps 20 million people

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I might not speak to otherwise? I was reflecting on the book of Jonah, where Jonah gets mad because the

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Ninevites repented. And then he gets mad because God makes a plant appear to get him out of the sun.

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And he sits under the shade, and as he's sitting under the shade, then the thing dies quickly, and he gets mad.

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Well, you know, what happens, God says, You're upset about the plant? What about these 120 ,000

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Ninevites who didn't know their right hand from their left? Now, they were idol worshipers. They were guilty in God's sight, and yet they were ignorant.

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There are people who have actually said on social media, Benny Hinn's audience is so spiritually dull, they wouldn't recognize the true gospel when you brought it.

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What an ugly comment. What a horrifically judgmental comment. What an arrogant comment.

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And it's almost like, in a different way, that attitude of Jonah. Now, by the way,

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I've been interacting earlier in the broadcast with Dr. James White. I am not putting those words in his heart or mouth,

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God forbid. In fact, as a Calvinist, he would believe that many of the viewers were destined to salvation by God.

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But, you know, we have to rejoice in the good. There are some people that were gloating when

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Benny Hinn's wife divorced him a few years back, and then were upset when they remarried and reconciled.

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How many couples do that? What kind of attitude is that, friends?

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Regardless of what you think of me or him or John MacArthur or anybody else, what kind of attitude is that if we call ourselves followers of Jesus?

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So there. Well, we got our sound back right in the middle of that, so I hope you heard the beginning of it.

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But that probably means I would be able to see the materials or the stuff here.

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Let me just see real quick. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yeah, it looks like one of our compressors bit the dust.

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Really? Yes, if you look right around 350, you can watch him.

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He said, find the woman. In the orange! In the orange! And then he's bringing these people up, knocking them over.

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Here comes the lady in the orange. Kapow! She's gone. I don't know what these guys get paid who are running around the stage, running out in the audience, grabbing people.

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Oh, there he just threw the spirit, and the guy looks like he has epilepsy now.

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Oh, and then there's tongues. No, wait a minute.

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Where was the interpretation? Where was the interpretation? There wasn't any interpretation given.

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But nobody cares, because everyone's raising their hands, and they're playing. That keyboard's going to explode at any point in time.

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This is the stuff that's going on. All right, look. Nineveh.

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Are we displaying a Jonah spirit? We're angry about the gourd, and not the 120 ,000 that don't know their right hand from their left.

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Here's a couple things. Basically, what I heard yesterday from Michael was, look,

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I've had a bunch of people that are close to Benny Hinn saying he's not teaching the stuff that he's been accused of.

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He's not teaching word faith.

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He's not teaching prosperity. He's not teaching that Jesus died in hell.

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He's teaching a good, sound message now. And because I was told that, we had some ministry graduates that are very close to him.

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I trust them, and so why not be able to come alongside?

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Help this individual out. If he's changed his ways, then maybe we can make him even more sound.

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First of all, we have to recognize that if we're going to call people to repentance, we have to leave a way open for them to repent, right?

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So, anyone who's called for Benny Hinn to repent, if you just close the door on the possibility of his ever doing so, then your call for him to repent isn't much of a call to repent, is it?

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So you've got to leave the door open. But here's my question. What would that look like?

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What would repentance look like? If Benny Hinn, if all these clips on YouTube, where it's sowing the seed and all the rest of the stuff, if that stuff represents the old

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Benny Hinn back then, what would it look like if Benny Hinn decides that he's been wrong?

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And he gets good counsel. And he repents of his false teaching.

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Because I would think Michael would agree that it's sinful to teach falsely. I'm not talking about perfectionism here.

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I'm not talking about having an argument about eschatology with somebody. Certain kinds of eschatology.

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Certain opinions in eschatology. We're talking about fleecing the flock.

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Pretending to toss the Holy Spirit about. There are serious accusations of misdeed in ministry, specifically adultery.

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Now, sadly, this morning, someone in Channel posted what was actually put on the website, blamed it all on Benny Hinn's wife.

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Which did not encourage me in any way, shape, or form. But, the interesting thing is, this thing in Ukraine took place during the period of his divorce.

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Did he step down? Did he step aside? Did he stop ministering? Did he stop throwing the Holy Spirit around like a beach ball?

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During that period of time? Doesn't seem to have happened. What would repentance look like if you were a prosperity teacher who decided, became under conviction of the

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Holy Spirit, and repented of your prosperity teaching? What would it look like?

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Let me use some examples. Michael Brown and I have debated, he mentioned this, have debated those who deny the deity of Christ and that Jesus is the eternal

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Son of God. If Anthony Buzzard were to become convinced that we were right and he was wrong, what would we expect

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Anthony Buzzard to do? Would we expect him to just continue on in his ministry? Continue on with the same name of ministry?

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Not post anything about it? Just sort of start changing the emphasis of his statements?

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I don't think so. We would expect some kind of open, clear announcement and denunciation of one's former position.

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And saying, you know, I have come to realize that the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ has eternally existed as God.

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The doctrine of the Trinity is not just something made up by men. I repudiate my books wherein

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I said otherwise. They'd be withdrawn. There would be clear statements that as soon as you hit the website, they would say, this is what

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Anthony Buzzard now says, right? That's what you'd expect. Let's make another application that's even more relevant.

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If you scroll down on the materials for today's Dividing Line, you might want to download the

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PNG and expand it. Otherwise, it's really hard to see. But there is a

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PNG, there's a PDF version on the web as well.

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And this is the statement signed by Phillips, Craig, and Dean. Now those of you who are not familiar with this whole thing, if you put in Phillips, Craig, and Dean and Trinity in Google, the first page will almost be completely

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Alpha Omega Ministries materials. Because back in the last century, right at the end of the last century,

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I became aware of the fact that the men in Phillips, Craig, and Dean came out of, or were still parts of, churches that were not

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Trinitarian. They were influenced by Oneness Pentecostalism. And I wrote articles about this.

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Eric Nielsen wrote an article that's still available on our blog. If you just put in PCND or Phillips, Craig, and Dean, these materials will come up.

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And you will see them coming up in Google. The statement reads as follows.

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Now, check out the next paragraph. Unfortunately, there were articles written many years ago that aggressively labeled the members of PCND as anti -Trinitarian.

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These, quote, Internet rumors, end quote, have been hurtful not only to our ministry but to the body of Christ in general.

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It should be noted that the churches led by the members of Phillips, Craig, and Dean are three independent, non -affiliated, non -denominational

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Christian churches that are served by each individual church's vision, eldership, and presbytery. Phillips, Craig, and Dean fully acknowledge their past denominational affiliations and are grateful for their heritage, which is a non -Trinitarian, anti -Trinitarian heritage, by the way.

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However, they reject the teaching of modalism, a .k .a. Sabellianism. Although none of the members of PCND are affiliated with any denomination, collectively, the ministry of Phillips, Craig, and Dean affirms the

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Statement of Faith at the Southern Baptist Convention, and then you have the URL to the Baptist Faith and Message of 2000.

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If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact our management office at and then you have the signatures

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Randy Phillips, Sean Craig, and Dan Dean. Now, as I said last week,

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I really, really, really would like to hear that Phillips, Craig, and Dean are

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Trinitarians. That statement doesn't say that. I wish it did.

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I wish it did. You see, for quite some time, material has been available.

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Randy Phillips, for example, there is a book called The Inquirer's Handbook, a book of basic doctrines published by Randy Phillips' ministry,

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The World of Pentecost. And if you read it, it is thoroughly, 100 % modalistic.

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Not just in regards to, well, quote, one of the primary sources of confusion in this matter is related to the word persons.

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The Doctrine of the Trinity states that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three persons who make up one God. In actuality, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three manifestations of one

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God. The word manifestation means to appear, and it is quite scriptural. The Bible tells us God was manifest in the flesh, 1

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Timothy 3 .16. Remember who else utilized the exact same terminology just a couple years ago?

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In a thing called The Elephant Room? A man by the name of T .D. Jakes?

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He said, I'm not real big on that word person. You know, God was manifest in the flesh.

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Remember that? And if you keep reading from Randy Phillips' writings,

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The Inquirer's Handbook, In other words, God appeared in the flesh as a son. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are simply three manifestations of one

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God. You yourself may be manifested as a son to your father, a husband to your wife, and a father to your children. As an individual person, you may be manifested in various ways.

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And likewise, Almighty God is manifested as a father, a son, and a Holy Ghost, while He remains indisputably, undeniably one.

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That is classic, historic modalism. And there's much more.

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He goes on to talk about, for example, The Inquirer's Handbook says, That's not what the doctrine is.

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Anyways, The Trinity, however, generates confusion, and is not in total harmony with the scriptures, to say that there are three separate persons that somehow compromise one

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God is like trying to connect opposing sides of two magnets. When you add one plus one plus one, it must equal three, and there cannot, under any circumstances, be more than one

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God. That is historical oneness Pentecostalism. There's no question about that. Alright? Now, so we ask the question, does the statement that has been put out by Phillips, Craig, and Dean look like what you would expect from someone who has gone from believing what

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I was just reading to you, which is from Randy Phillips. We can give you quotes from Craig Dean's church, etc.

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etc. Or from, not Craig Dean's church, Dan Dean's church. Does that statement sound like someone who has a passionate, deep, commitment to the glory of the

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Triune God? I just simply ask the question. I want to believe that they're

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Trinitarians now. But they didn't say they're Trinitarians. They said they reject the teaching of modalism, a .k

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.a. Sabellianism. Well, what does that mean to them? We already saw that Randy Phillips had no earthly idea what the

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Trinity was just a few years ago. Does he know today? And, if he didn't know what the

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Trinity was, is he defining modalism in some other way than it's done historically?

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I mean, if he thinks that Constantine put the Trinity into the

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Catholic faith in 325, he knows nothing about church history. Right? Hopefully you recognize that.

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Know enough about the Council of Nicaea, that's the case. So, do they know what Sabellianism is?

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Is that just a different brand? Just a different perspective? It says, well, we can affirm the

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Statement of Faith at the Southern Baptist Convention. Well, historically, if you were to look at that and say, alright, what was the intention of the writers of the

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Baptist faith and message? Well, it's clearly Trinitarian. No question about that. But the intention of the writers of the

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Council of Nicaea was something completely different than Randy Phillips understood. That's for sure. And we read the

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Baptist faith and message on the last program, and unfortunately, the Baptist faith and message is rather vague when it comes to the key issue.

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The key issue. And the key issue. Now, they're not going to talk to me. There's really a problem, in my opinion, folks, when you put a statement like this out and you start off by saying, you people sure have been mean to us.

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Those internet rumors, they weren't internet rumors, they were quotations from the writings of the members of the singing group.

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How is that an internet rumor? Yeah, it sounds really familiar, doesn't it? Sounds like an

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Ergen -Kanner move. But they aggressively labeled the members of PCND as anti -Trinitarian.

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Well, when you say that Constantine introduced it into the Catholic faith and Protestants have believed without thoroughly examining it, what do you call that?

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But these internet rumors have been hurtful not only to our ministry, but to the body of Christ in general. That doesn't sound like someone who's saying, you know what, thanks to all of you who have shown concern, you've spoken the truth to us, we finally took the time to really think through these things, we've gotten good counsel, and we affirm the doctrine of the

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Trinity. We believe that there are three Divine Persons, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and we believe that the

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Son is a Divine Person who has eternally existed in the presence of the Father, not just merely as a thought or a plan, but He has eternally existed as a

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Divine Person. Oh, I would love to hear Randy Phillips saying that and singing that, that would be wonderful.

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This statement doesn't say that. This statement does not say that. And so I really hope that somebody in the hierarchy of the

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Southern Baptist Convention will do something more than go, ah, it's good enough, they make great harmony, and will actually say, guys, it's one thing to say you reject the teaching of modalism, so do the

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Mormons, so do the Jehovah's Witnesses. We don't want to know what you reject, we want to know what you affirm.

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So we affirm the Baptist Faith Convention, but the Baptist Faith Convention doesn't talk about the Son eternally existing as the

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Son. I know how you could read it. And the whole history of the

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Council of Nicaea was trying to come up with language that the Aryans could not can twist and contort themselves into.

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To come up with a term and a way of expressing things that have to go, okay, I don't believe that.

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So, what does this have to do with Michael Brown? Well, it's real simple. What we've got to do here is we've got to ask ourselves a question.

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Had to take care of someone who doesn't get how to not use that kind of language in the channel.

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Anyway, if these guys had repented of false teaching about the

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Trinity, what would their repentance look like? Would it look like this? And if Benny Hinn has repented of prosperity gospel teaching and word faith teaching and all the rest of that stuff, what would it look like?

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Would he just continue on doing what he's doing and just sort of change emphases?

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Another parallel. Remember, I've brought up many, many times when

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Roger Beckwith quote unquote became a Protestant. There's no evidence that he ever identified

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Rome's gospel as a false gospel. So his going back to Rome doesn't surprise me because he was always paddling around the middle of the

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Tiber River anyways. And what was the illustration that I used? And I think it's a pretty clear illustration. If you leave

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Rome then you cross the Tiber River, you get out on the other side, you break your boat up, you build a pulpit, and you preach to the people that are still in Rome.

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Get out of her! That's what real repentance for having believed something that was false looks like.

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And so here's the question. Where is the evidence that Benny Hinn has repudiated?

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Send me the URLs! Aren't there articles someplace? Hasn't he come out and said, you know, I have taught some of you that you're little gods.

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I've taught some of you that you can make your own reality by the speaking of the word just as Jesus did.

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And I was wrong. I was, oh, it was wrong of me. Where is that?

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I want to see it. We have to leave open the possibility for anybody to repent, right?

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So what's it going to look like? What's that repentance going to look like? I'd like to know. Same thing with Phillips, Craig, and Dean.

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I'd like to see a clear statement from Phillips, Craig, and Dean. And I'm not going to get it unless there's really, really been a change.

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Yes, the Son as a divine person existed in eternity not merely as a thought in the

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Father's mind, but as a divine person in personal relationship with the Father, just as we see in Philippians 2,

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John 17, and John 1. Could somebody in the leadership of the

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Southern Baptist Convention, some of you state representatives who have some pole, some say, please ask, send a letter, send a note, make a phone call, and ask the question.

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You say you reject the teaching of modalism, you say you affirm the statement of faith. Does that mean that you believe that the

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Son has eternally existed as a divine person in the presence of the Father in communion with Him for all eternity? That is something that no modalist, no oneness

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Pentecostal can affirm. They can't say it. They would be lying to say it, and I don't think they're going to do that.

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I hope. That needs to be the question. So, in answer to the

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Nineveh example long way around, what if I was just taking advantage of a great opportunity here?

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Well, I asked on, I actually went on Facebook today, ugh, about the only time

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I do that is when Michael will tweet something, there's a Facebook link and I have to click on it, and I'm like, okay,

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I'll comment here. I went on Facebook, and I said, here's a counterexample for you,

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Michael. Let's say there was something called Galatia Live back in the first century.

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And Paul was invited to go on with one of the

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Judaizers. And he could have reached a huge audience, but he could only talk about something other than the

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Gospel with the Judaizer. Would he have gone on? Oh, he could have said great things about this thing over here, and he could have helped the

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Colossians out with the proto -Gnosticism over there, and he could have done all these great things, but he was going to be on with a

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Judaizer, and he just couldn't talk about that one thing. I would suggest to you, he never would have gone on.

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Never would have gone on. Would have allowed that opportunity to pass by because of what it would have required him to do.

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Years ago, when I was Francis Beckwith, thank you, Algo.

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Did I say Roger Beckwith? I wish they would change names or something. It was Francis Beckwith, not Roger Beckwith.

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Roger Beckwith has not become Roman Catholic to my knowledge. Years ago, when

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I was involved with Operation Rescue, it became painfully clear to me after a few months of involvement, that the one thing, you could be passionate about the lives of the unborn, you could be, you know, you could go on.

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I went on local radio programs and took on some nasty hosts and things like that, and I enjoyed doing that.

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But it was made painfully clear that the one thing that could not be allowed is that you cannot talk about Rome, and you cannot talk about the

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Gospel. You cannot talk about Rome, you cannot talk about the

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Gospel. You cannot identify Rome as not having the Gospel. You have to assume that everybody is all on the same page here.

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And you have to allow for Rome's Gospel to be a true Gospel. I couldn't be involved with it. Oh, but you're doing good!

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I hope so. But I couldn't be involved with it. I cannot go somewhere where I cannot speak the

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Gospel in its totality and in its clarity. Now, does that mean that I can only be on television programs, people who agree with me 100 %?

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No! The folks at Revelation TV and I don't agree. I mean, Mike's going to be the home team.

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They're primarily charismatic. I know that. And, no, it's sad.

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He read, Mike read a lot of the comments that have been aimed at his direction. And there are a lot of people out there. There are a lot of Calvinists out there that just, oh my goodness, people, get a life.

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I mean, if you can't express your disagreement without that kind of attitude, then go help the poor or something, because you're not doing us much good with that kind of stuff that he was reading.

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No question about that. Of course, we get the exact same kind of stuff in the other direction, so it's just the Internet just creates people that don't guard their tongues.

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There's no question about it. But, the fact is that the evidence of Benny Hinn's utter unorthodoxy, and basically what we're being told is all that stuff about nine gods and prophesying about all the homosexuals, there's one

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I really do want to ask. Was Michael aware? He says he's aware now. He says he was aware beforehand.

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It was a prayerful consideration. How about that prophecy about all of the homosexuals being wiped out by fire?

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I'd like... I just don't know how Michael, who has so strongly encouraged us to respond in love, and has modeled responding in love to the homosexual community, could put himself in a position where you don't go, by the way, you said this, what on earth did you mean?

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That would seem to be just absolutely necessary, wouldn't it? But one of the other big things that was pointed out is you've got all these false prophecies from Benny Hinn.

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Those don't bother Michael, because Michael comes from a charismatic background where he hears it every Sunday. He hears

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Mrs. Smith saying, Thus saith the Lord, 2014 is going to be blah blah blah blah blah. Since they have created this sub -category of uninspired prophecy, of uninspired speakings of the

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Spirit, then that doesn't bother him. Because he hears it all the time. Obviously, from my perspective, prophecy is a function that is associated with the apostles of Jesus Christ.

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As long as you're going to be consistent and say the canon is still open and stuff like that, okay, great, fine. But there's no consistency there.

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If you want to go listen to an interesting conversation on that, go listen to Michael and Sam Waldron discussing that very issue, especially during the cross -examination period as to whether the canon is open or closed and why not.

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So what are apostles? Michael thinks there are people who can still be called apostles. I do not. No more than in the sense of a sent one from a church.

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But not apostles of Christ. Not as the twelve. That office and that function has ceased.

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They did what they were supposed to do. We're built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets.

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Jesus Christ himself being the cornerstone. We don't keep laying the foundation. The foundation has been laid once.

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It was done right. It was done as a powerful work of the Spirit of God. But we don't rebuild it over and over and over again.

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And so I think that's one of the other reasons where I can look at Benny Hinn and go, wow.

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Now again, the balance here, and this is where I think some of our criticisms can be completely muted if we don't watch our own hearts and our own attitudes, is there's a bunch of Reformed folks out there that, as far as I can tell from what you said,

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Benny Hinn could never repent. God can't save that man. Interesting how a Calvinist would say that. Oh, he's been given over.

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He's been given over. Can't save that man. Can't save that man. Impossible. Would never happen.

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Well, okay. So there's no reason talking to you about what repentance would look like, because it's impossible.

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And there doesn't seem to be much use talking to the Charismatics about what repentance would look like either, because it doesn't seem to be necessary. So you wonder why we don't get anywhere sometimes.

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Yes. How many times were we told in the early days of the ministry, don't go to Salt Lake City.

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You can't reach those people. They're too entrenched. Don't talk to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

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You can't reach them. Just reach out to the standard pagans is what we were told. So I reiterate what

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I said in the article. I believe the result of the Spirit's presence in a person's life is discipline, order, steadfastness.

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I think it's far more of a miracle for a sinner to be converted to Christ and to be steadfast in their faith for the next 60 years than it is for someone to flop around on a stage and two years later be out in the world.

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Because if you flop around a stage and two years later you're out in the world, that ain't the Spirit of God. Now, does that mean that someone who's ever flopped around a stage can't find out what the truth is and become a solid follower of the

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Spirit of God? Lose their traditions? Because folks, a lot of that is just tradition. You saw somebody else do it, you think they're godly and so you want to do what they're doing.

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That's where it comes from. For a lot of those folks. They think that they've got problems in their life and if they could just break through, they could just have that one spiritual experience.

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It's a tradition they've been taught. It's not biblical. But if you think anyone's ever done that, do you think they can find out the truth and get away from it?

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Sure hope so. Or there's really not much reason for us to be doing the talking that we're doing right now, is there?

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Probably not. Well, anyway, just some thoughts in response to what

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Michael said. I'm sure we're going to have quite interesting conversations coming up next week when we get together in Spain.

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By the way, those debates will be live in the

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United States. The Revelation TV site is a live streaming site and that means at 9 o 'clock on the 24th,

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Eastern Time, and on the 25th, the live debates Michael Brown will be viewable.

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We will put the links up, obviously, on our blog. 24th and 25th of next week, the first on healing in the church, healers specifically.

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And on the 25th, the extent of the atonement. For whom did Christ die? What does Christ's death actually accomplish?

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Those are the two debates, 24th and 25th of January, live from Spain.

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You would think it would be easier to go to Charlotte, but it didn't work out that way. So we're going all the way to Spain for that.

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Once again, thanks to Grey Level for Scottish Morning. That's our first very own song.

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We appreciate that, and we'll be back next time on The Divine Line. Join us then. God bless.