Proverbs 3:1-12, Discipline

Proverbs 3 and the Need for Discipline

Proverbs chapter 3 be reading from verses 1 to 12. Hear the word of the Lord. My son do not forget my teaching. But let your heart keep my commandments for length of days and years of life in peace. They will add to you.

Let not steadfast love and faithfulness forsake you bind them around your neck. Write them on the tablet of your heart. So you will find favor and good success in the sight of God in man. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding in All your ways acknowledge him and he will make straight your paths.

Be not wise in your own eyes. Fear the Lord and turn away from evil. It will be healing to your flesh and refreshment to your bones. Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of your produce.

Then your barns will be filled with plenty and your vats will be bursting with wine. My son do not despise the Lord's discipline or be weary of his reproof. For the Lord reproves him whom he loves as a father the son and whom he delights.

May the Lord add his blessings to the reading of his Holy Word. One day in the spring of my freshman year at college hoping to be a college athlete I was running with the track team about a five-mile run and barely able to keep up when Ronnie Slowed from his position near the front of the pack to fall back and run with me straggling behind.

Ronnie was faster than me. He was in the army having just recently finished boot camp and so he proceeded to yell at me like a drill instructor. You know would to a trainee. I've never seen in person, but I like in the movies, you know, come on use.

So-and-so no profanity. He was a Christian and but you know, the the the intent was there pick it up. You call that running my grandmother can run faster than that. Let's get going. Kind of like that on and on and on he did that for some time egging me on to run faster.

I remember thinking my legs were turning to rubber. I Was exhausted. I was in pain. I wanted to quit but Ronnie was taunting me to keep up and go faster and I kept up. I Kept at it through that track season and through the next summer and when it came time for the beginning of the cross-country season and the fall of my sophomore year I had the goal for my first race at the University of the South in Suwannee, Tennessee a Beating Ronnie.

I was going to beat Ronnie that was my goal and I did. I Beat him, of course. Because I had listened to him Months earlier. I hadn't ignored him. I hadn't thought well, I don't need his spurring. I don't like the way he's talking to me.

I'm gonna stop over to show him just by walking from now on I ain't got angry at him and quit because I didn't like to be talked to like that. I knew that even though he was playing the drill instructor and shouting at me that he was doing it for me.

He supplied the disciplines. So I could beat him in that first race. Later he would pass me again later that season. Do you need discipline immediately? Somebody protests that all this stuff about discipline talk.

That's oh, that's legalistic. That's like Old Testament stuff. That's dreary duty as not for us now in the gospel. All we need is inspiration motivation. Acceptance, right? We're just accepted and then we'll do better.

Someone said if you want to build a ship. Don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work. But rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea. Let's say someone try that long for the instruments in the endless immensity of the sea and and just hope a ship comes out of that.

Anyway, someone scoffed at the idea of churches like ours like the Puritans used to having covenants. Why have a covenant have a vision statement? And that much better the wise way We're told today to get people to do what they're supposed to do is to inspire them to cast a vision.

Some pastors these days even have is their job description. Vision caster that sounds great. I'm a vision caster. So that once people are motivated So the theory goes they will then do. What mere calls to discipline to commitment would never do kind of just spontaneously arising out of their inspiration.

They'll just do what they're supposed to do even without discipline apparently, so then Do you really need? discipline. Well again like last week we're doing something unusual for us rather than the normal Expository message in which we take one passage like here.

We were the first 12 verses of chapter 3 rather than taking just that passage and making the main point of the passage the main point of the message and We're looking at one of the main subjects of the book of Proverbs and that is one of them.

There's several of them. But one of them is discipline the passage we read from Proverbs 3 while it touches on this topic. It won't confine us this time. We're looking now at what Proverbs says about discipline and we can look at that in three parts first the reward of discipline then the realms of discipline and finally the relationships of discipline.

The Reward of Discipline

First the reward of discipline and we see that in this passage. We read from Proverbs chapter 3 and particularly in the first two verses. The sage there tells us that if we if we don't forget his teachings that we keep its commandments.

That's by actually doing the things he tells us to do. Then you will generally get two things in verse 2 a longer life and peace. Of other words are harmonious tranquil and longer generally life. You'll have more time to live.

Because you weren't a disciplined person. You restrain yourself sexually so you avoided the bad consequences that come with being immoral. You restrain your anger. So you didn't get into fights or break relationships or get sued for defamation because you said something Slanderous about somebody.

You restrain your spending. So you saved for what you needed and therefore you didn't go into debt. So you had more money at the end of the life. You restrained your appetites. So you didn't suffer from type 2 diabetes or get clogged arteries because you ate too much Arthrosis of the liver because you drank too much.

You were careful with your words and so got along better with people. You restrain your fears so you didn't panic. You didn't live in dread all the time. You generally enjoyed the rewards of a disciplined life.

Now the word discipline to us often sounds stark sounds heavy sounds burdensome. No fun, right? Just discipline doesn't. Inspire this idea of this is gonna be fun. But discipline brings great rewards.

Proverbs chapter 6 verse 23 says the reproofs of the discipline are the way of life the reproofs that is the correction of Discipline. Discipline corrects you and it shows you the way of life. So how to live.

You want life then get discipline. And the flip side is true, too. If discipline brings a great reward lack of discipline brings a great penalty. In Proverbs chapter 5 verse 23 says that we could die Because of their lack of discipline and in the New Testament this great truth that long life comes through discipline.

I Should be raised to a higher level. In The gospel we see that the Holy Spirit comes to us first. Jesus said in John chapter 16 verse 8 to convict. That is to discipline to reprove. Convict concerning sin and righteousness and Judgment, he reproves us.

He corrects us. He tells us that we are sinners that we've offended a perfectly Holy God. We're not right with him and we need to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ like we sung. We need to be washed with his blood.

There is judgment. There is a price to be paid for our sins. Salvation begins by us being Disciplined. That's why we're told in chapter 3. Do not despise it. Don't be weary of it. Accept it because life will come through it.

The Realms of Discipline

It comes with a great reward life. Discipline has a great reward and it has many many realms. A Man without self-control is like a city broken into and left without walls in chapter 29 verse 15. Now in those days walls were the main defense.

From outside invaders a city without walls could be easily overcome by any marauding army. It had no ability to defend itself. So to someone who is out of control of himself has no discipline is someone who could be easily overcome by any enemy.

The world the flesh of the devil. There are at least eight different realms of our lives. Discipline is supposed to rule over eight realms of discipline. First. Sex this is such an important one in Proverbs that there's two and a half chapters focused on it.

Chapter 5. Second half of chapter 6 and all of chapter 7 and all of that is to tell us to be disciplined with our sexuality. That is to be kept strictly within Marriage. It portrays the draw of sex that traps the undisciplined in chapter 5 verse 3.

The lips of a forbidden woman drip honey, and her speech is smoother than oil. She is so seductive in chapter 7 an easy woman is out in the town. She's looking for some fool to catch. She's got lots of meat at home.

You know lots to eat lots to indulge in so come come to my place. She says for the party. We got lots to eat. You should see how it's done up. It looks great. Come see. And in chapter 7 verse 18 She says come let us take our fill of love till morning.

Let us delight ourselves with love. And then in verse 21 with with much seductive speech. She persuades him with her smooth talk. She compels him. That's the lure. What's the result? Her house is the way to.

She'll to the grave. She looks like she's taking you to pleasure. She's taking you to your death. Going down to the chambers of death and even before you've each death in chapter 5 verse 11 and 12 They tell us at the end of your life before you're even dead you groan.

When your flesh and your body are consumed and you say How I hated discipline. There is much immediate pleasure promised and if you're not disciplined you'll fall for the bait into the trap only to find out later as.

You're groaning. You're dreading what you've done. Maybe lonely having lived for immediate pleasures. That now you have no life to enjoy. Sex is around the discipline must rule over the instruction. It was really simple to understand sex with a marriage only.

It's not that sex is bad. It certainly is not. Chapter 5 tells married people to enjoy and be satisfied with our sex lives in marriage. Chapter 5 verse 18 says rejoice in the wife. We could add a husband I guess of your youth.

I'll always be satisfied and satisfying to the one you married when you were young. All right, don't go get middle-aged. Whatever middle-aged crisis they call it don't go looking for another one. Stimulate yourself.

I'm looking for a newer model like you like cars you trade in occasionally now. Don't encourage through pornography our online relationships fantasies about other hypothetical Fantasy partners that leave you dissatisfied with your marriage partner.

If you're if you're not married. Then you don't need to be teased with sexuality and sensuality that draws you closer and closer to temptations to do things discipline Would keep you from doing. Discipline weights.

Sex has the power to drag us down into hell. If we are not disciplined are you in control of your sexuality. Second is our temper a anger. Like sexual desire. It's not always bad. Ephesians chapter 5 of 4.

Excuse me. Ephesians chapter 4 verse 26 says be angry. But do not sin. Do not let the Sun go down in your anger. It's not being angry. That is bad, but being out of control of your anger. Discipline gives us the power to control it.

That's what one reason is called temper like tempered steel has more strength. Is your temper strong? Whether we choose not to express it express our anger at all. We just say I'm not gonna I'm not gonna respond or to express it.

Maybe you could express it gently that takes a great deal of Self control to be angry and be able to express it with gentleness or like Jesus driving out the money changers from the temple. We express it vigorously.

That also takes self-control to not allow it to take you over if you're expressing it vigorously and that's very rare. I mean Jesus didn't do that commonly either. The question whether no matter which way we choose.

The question is is whether we are in control of our anger like steel. It has to be tempered to be strong. Does our temper have enough strength so we can control our anger. Even when it's hot. But Proverbs has a lot to say about controlling anger.

The vexation or we might say irritation the irritation of a fool. There's no no what he gets irritated, you know it right away because he expresses it. But the prudent ignores an insult in Proverbs chapter 12 or 16.

Proverbs chapter 19 verse 11 says something similar good sense. That's wisdom. You know makes one slow to anger and It's his glory to overlook an offense. The person who has no self-control can't help but to immediately show that he's mad that he's been offended that you've been it feels insulted.

He has to just he has to let it out but the prudent can be insulted and wait think carefully. Whether or not to respond and if so, how. Proverbs chapter 14 verse 17 says a man of quick temper acts Foolishly when your anger is out of control.

The only thing that you can see at that moment is whatever it is. You are angry about You you don't see what may be the repercussions of the angry words. You're about to blurt out. You don't see that at all.

You just so angry. You just got to say that and it may be entirely true, but you're not seeing what's gonna do. That's why you should be disciplined yourself that when you are angry be extra careful. With what you say bite your tongue sometimes.

Walk away. Sometimes don't make that phone call. Like I did once made him a big mistake. Made a phone call when I was angry and I blurted out things. Don't do that. You write out an email. Don't send it right away.

Sit on it a while. Go back and edit tone it down. Certainly don't make any big decisions. Be in control. The one who can control his temper shows that he or she has great strengths. Whoever's slow to anger is better than the mighty and He who rules his spirit.

In other words, he said he's in control of his anger and the rest of his passions. That he's better than he who takes a city. Chapter 16 verse 32. That is if you're able to control your temper, then you have the discipline of a hero.

Are you in control of your temper? How about your need for pleasure and just just the things you crave. It could be legitimate pleasure. But do you feel like you got indulge in it? You're longing for luxuries.

The urge to buy that Thing whatever it is the newest gadget tablets bigger and bigger HD TVs you HD TVs whatever they're gonna come out with next I. Whatever's the nicest car to be pampered at some spa.

Most expensive restaurant. The most luxurious vacation. Whatever satisfies your taste buds. Whoever loves pleasure will be a poor man. He who loves wine and oil will not be rich in Proverbs chapter 21 verse 17.

Now wine in their day was the main beverage. Other than water or milk basically that's as far as I can tell that was their three choices. Wine water or milk and wine was the luxurious one. It was the it was the what would you call it the treat?

It was also much costlier than water or milk if you loved it and you just had to have it all the time every meal. If you didn't get drunk off of it, you just had it regularly all the time instead of settling for water or milk.

Well, you become poor. You're squandering your money on buying wine all the time. Oil was for refreshing yourself for looking good and that soothing sensation. You can splurge on that. For special occasions sure, but if you have to have it all the time just frequently that shows a lack of self-control.

Discipline is the ability to say no to your short-term desires in Order to get your long-term goals and our long-term goal should be to honor the Lord with our whole lives including with our with our money with our wealth and that can chapter 3 verse 9 and We do that.

We honor the Lord with our wealth by being content with what we have. Like we sang it's why we sang that song you are enough all of you is more than enough. We'd be content with what we need saying no to the luxuries We might want.

Are you in control of your longing for luxuries for treats? What about your appetites for food and drink can you control that. Can you have something good you know that you love? But in moderation. You know the passage we've read chapter 3 verse 10.

If we honor the Lord with our wealth then he rewards us with our vats. Bursting with wine it says we have more than enough of this Luxurious beverage that we know what to do with if that's a bursting with you got a lot of wine on your hands.

Wine is a sign of blessing. It means he has blessed us because we honored him with our wealth, but can you have some? Can you have some wine. Without being overcome by it. Can you control yourself to have a cup and now you're no longer thirsty.

You've had your treat and You can stop. Even if it tastes so good you so want another one. If so, if you can say no you can do that. You have you have self-discipline and so you're wise if not Proverbs chapter 20 verse 1 is for you.

Wine is a mocker strong drink a brawler and whoever is led astray by it is not wise. Whoever does not have the self-control is led astray by wine astray from wisdom. Well by wine or by beer or by other liquors some kind of alcohol and so as soon having more than he should been lubricated.

Now he's saying things he shouldn't he's a mocker. He starts mocking things. Next he's uninhibited. So he's fighting otherwise foolish. You know being easily seduced that kind of thing. Driving and getting in crashes because he's he's DUI.

The principle is not never to drink any alcohol. But to have self-control now in their day wine was the main thing that people could show their lack of self-control with. Today it could be many things.

I think it could be ice cream coca-cola. Too many trips to the buffet. Whatever it is that controls you. I heard a grossly overweight woman bitterly complain when she was corrected for drinking too much coke.

That I don't drink. Well, she thought because she didn't get drunk on alcohol that she was cleared from the charge of gluttony debauchery. But the point isn't what you eat or drink. But whether you are in control of it.

Are you in control of your eating and drinking? How about you're talking? That too could be something that is out of control. Talking too much is a form of self-indulgence and what's worked at this job one day job and You had to be with these same people for over for 40 hours straight and there were these two.

Sorry, excuse me if I'm sexist, but I am two ladies who talked continually. I I got to a point where I was just amazed that they could continue to do that. I would run out of things to say but they just except for their time where they slept 40 hours straight.

Talking. I just find that amazing. That's why some people are they feel like they just have to talk. Proverbs chapter 10 verse 19 says when words are many. Transgression is not lacking but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.

It used to be said it just occurred to me. I know a lot of men by the way who talked too much. Mary's laughing. Yeah. Yeah, there are a lot of those. It's not just a it's not just a female thing. Anyway, it used to be said still waters run deep and people respected that people struck to the strong silent type.

It's all a silent person. Mostly quietly. He's a strong silent. That's that's good. That was their way of of saying this is probably a wise man because he's silent. You know, maybe he opens his mouth and then you realize it's not so wise after all, but generally they say He's keeping control of it.

I have to talk all the time, but that's a virtue. That's a strength. And when you do speak though, are you in control of what you say? So that your words don't hurt feelings or damage relationships unnecessarily.

There is one who's rash words. Rash words are like sword thrust. But the tongue of the wise brings healing in Proverbs chapter 12 verse 18. Do your words show that you are in control of them? What about your ego?

Are you disciplined enough to not believe? That little voice in your head that tells you only what you want to hear that you're the greatest. That you are you are the smartest, you know better than everyone else.

That you are Fill in the blank whatever it is. You want to be you are that don't listen anyone tell you different. You have enough self-control to turn down the volume of your pride and to listen to the truth.

It's better to be of a lowly spirit With the poor than to divide the spoil with the proud in Proverbs chapter 16 verse 19. Can you humble yourself to be with people that your pride says you are better than?

You think I have a college degree why should I be hanging on these people that didn't graduate from high school. Can you do what the Apostle Paul says in Romans chapter 12 verse 3. Don't think more highly of yourself than you ought but Humbly take the role in which you can best serve the body.

What that requires is the self-discipline to say no To that monster that we all have in us that demands that I be exalted. Haughty eyes and a proud heart the lamp of the wicked are sin. Chapter 21 verse 4.

Notice that that verse interesting verse that for the wicked their haughtiness their pride. Is what they see the world through haughty eyes. They're seeing through those haughty eyes out to the world.

It's like the sunglasses people wear tents everything they see there for them their their pride their ego. Distorts the world the way they see it. Their determination not to be offended or to be denied pride.

It also says is there their lamp? It's their source of light. So Everything they see They see it in the light of their of their pride their self-centeredness the wicked are controlled by their pride.

Can you control it? Instead. Next you got the discipline of keeping your commitments. In Proverbs chapter 3 verse 3, which we read we are to not Not let that is do not allow. Steadfast love and faithfulness Force to forsake you.

I was don't let them get away. Now steadfast love in Hebrew the Hebrew word has said one of my favorite words is covenant. Loyalty, it's being committed to others first to God and then to those to whom you have made commitments.

It's combined often in Scripture as here with the word faithfulness and that's to emphasize. It's already Very much about loyalty already Connected with faithfulness. Emphasizes the unshakable this of it being a person of integrity who keeps his or her promises.

Proverbs tells us that never let these characteristics go don't let them get away from you. Because they're going to be there'd be temptations to have it pulled out of your hand so that so that steadfast love and and Faithfulness are denied you are snatched from you.

Like a like a maybe a woman carrying a purse where she's afraid it might be snatched tears it extra close here carry steadfast love faithfulness Close to you clutch it so it won't get away. He says bind them steadfast love and faithfulness around your neck.

You know like a money belt you see our money belt put money in your and then put it on your waist. That way it can't be taken. No pickpocket can take it away here bind it about not only you're just your waist.

But your neck so you even anyone starts to tug at it. You notice it right away. Tie them to yourself. Loyalty promise-keeping integrity. Consistency the very opposite of the spouting of empty words of expressing commitments just because the words sound good to say.

You know, it just sounds so good to recite beautifully poetic marriage vows. Love honor and obey that kind of thing. It just sounds so great and poetic. You're just saying it for the sound you don't really believe it or in our Church Covenant walk together in Christian Love you sound so so delicious who wouldn't want to say that or sign their name to that?

But if you commit to doing that and you have bound steadfast love and faithfulness, you know around your neck and Written loyalty and integrity on your heart. So it's in you then. You will keep those commitments.

Even when it's hard I can. Psalm 15 the Lord looks on the one who keeps his vows even to his hurt. Proverbs chapter 19 verse 22 says what is desired in a man is steadfast love loyalty. A Love that keeps bound to others and a poor man is better than a liar.

A liar is someone whose words have no connection to truth. They may they may in fact be true and that's kind of coincidental. The liar someone who says things just because the words benefit him to say them whether the words are true or not.

He doesn't care. Including the commitments he or she expresses its commitments. The words sound good. Maybe it's to assure you I'll be there I'll do that. I've got your back. Whatever it is. They commit to do because they want to assure you.

And they're saying I'm just to get the result they want. Maybe they get you to do something pay them some money or whatever. Of course at the time they make their commitments, they swear they're going to keep them.

Even when the going gets tough, they'll say that many a man proclaims his own steadfast love. Remember earlier. What is desired in a man is that he has steadfast love but Actually people who have that many who have that is rare.

Many a man though proclaims he has steadfast love but a faithful man. A faithful man. Who can find in Proverbs chapter 20 verse 6 who can find because they're rare. Many a man says he has it. The Lord looks for it.

But a man who really has it or a woman who really has it is rare. In other words, everybody says they are going to keep their commitments when they make them but the truly faithful are uncommon. The faithful have the self-control to make themselves keep their commitments even when their feelings their ego.

Whatever else says not to. But they keep it. Anyway. Are you in control of your promise keeping? Last how about your fears? You can control of your fears. Proverbs chapter 28 verse 1 says the wicked flee when no one pursues.

But the righteous are bold as a lion. That means that the foolish the the unbelievers they panic. Sometimes they had nothing it is panic. They're full of fear when they are afraid they respond irrationally running away when there's no real threat.

They have nothing but this life. This this world is all they have this life here and now this is it for them. And so if they feel that it is in danger. They'll do anything To hold on to it. And so they're easily manipulated if you just make them afraid.

Now I told you about the swimmer. Remember the swimmer who got cramps at the deep end. Right next to the pool wall. All she had to do was reach out her arm and grab the wall. But she panicked and she wouldn't do that.

The lifeguard had to jump in and save her, you know. She was she could have saved herself. Just reach out and grab the wall. Hysteria leads to irrationality. Now over the more than a year now, we've seen a lot of people responding irrationally To a virus that is serious.

Don't make light of it because I think that's foolish too. It is serious, but it's mainly affected people and easily identifiable groups. Oh, but you pretty easily know the people who are in danger from this virus particularly the elderly.

Now reasonable precautions like protecting the elderly the otherwise vulnerable there that's prudent but you're just stopping your life. Especially if you're not old, you're not otherwise sick, you know, we're like wearing a mask when you're alone in a car.

That's a sign that you're out of control of your fear. That it's controlling you. Are you in control of your fears? Well, those are the realms of discipline these some of them you could probably find others.

There's sex there's temper. There's luxuries. There's food and drink. There's talking. There's ego. There's promise-keeping. There's fear. Very quickly Proverbs tells us about the the relationships of discipline.

The Relationships of Discipline

Relationships that should bring discipline into our lives. So relationships we need first is the family. The family is the first area of relationships that instill discipline. Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to do so.

Discipline him in Proverbs chapter 13 verse 24. Folly is bound up in the heart of a child. It's a good depravity verse also folly is bound up at the heart of a child. But the rod of discipline drives it far from him.

Get out folly. The spanking is like an exorcism with every swat. You drive out a little more foolishness. Discipline your son and he will give you rest. He will give delight To your heart. Chapter 29 verse 17 a healthy family disciplines the children to train themselves to train them to discipline themselves.

An Unhealthy dysfunctional family will shield the children from discipline from outside from school or from whatever. Probably not really discipline themselves either thinking that no one should touch or criticize my little darling.

Proverbs chapter 12 verse 1 says whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid. This is so much so that the parent who neglects to discipline his or her children for all intents and purposes.

Is setting up the child for disaster? Discipline your son. For there is hope. Do not set your heart on putting him to death in chapter 19 verse 18. The family was meant to be the school for training children in discipline.

The second relationship of discipline is the church. Even though the word is not used the word church is not used. Proverbs tells us that we need a church. Whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire.

It's been a lot of that because of the pandemic. Isolate yourself. Think you can just watch something on the video and that's enough of a church. No, you need to be in connection with other people. So you're not isolated.

Whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire. He breaks out against all sound judgment. Proverbs chapter 18 verse 1. You need to be in relationships with people who will hold you accountable. Who will bring sound judgment?

Against you so you're not breaking out against it. And that's what the church is just as the Lord Jesus described in Matthew chapter 18 starting in verse 15. Accountability of relationships. It's about people who know you and Are willing to correct you willing to apply sound judgment to your life and you'll listen to their correction.

If you if you want sound judgment, Jesus tells us that the church is to be a community of connected people. Lovingly holding each other to account. Proverb chapter 27 verse 6 says faithful are the wounds of a friend.

Profuse are the kisses of an enemy. The wise then want a community of people of friends. Who will sometimes if necessary? Wound them their pride. Anyway, they want to be they don't want to be isolated.

They want people who would teach them discipline them and there's no. No discipleship without discipline. Proverbs chapter 30 verse 13 verse 20 says he who walks with the wise. Grows wise and that's what we that's what we commit to do covenant to do walk together.

To grow wise. We all need a Ronnie in our life someone who'll run beside us and and. You know. Sometimes maybe say hard words to us to get us going like we should even if it's hard who stands outside our feelings.

Especially when we think we can't run anymore or run any faster and tells us to keep running to go faster. Now if we just want to run comfortably. If we want to get no better, we don't care about improving.

We don't stretch ourselves then. We'll reject. Ronnie will break out against all sound judgment. Maybe we'll quit the team. We'll tell him we we don't want any more of his abuse. Isolate ourselves thinking it's just just it's just God and me.

And that's all that matters. But God says that we are seeking. When we do that we are seeking not him but our own desires. Breaking out against all sound judgment. God has made us To run as a team walk together with the wise not as isolated individuals.