Finale! - Gospel Coalition Pro-Life Debate Totally Avoids The Real Issues

Okay, well, let's do this. Let's finish this thing. I don't want to ever talk about this debate ever again. So, uh, so let's do it.

I was gonna skip the video today. I actually took the kayak out this morning, and, uh,

I caught a bunch of trout, and I caught my very first brown trout as well. It actually - the day started off pretty slow.

I - I wasn't catching anything. I was getting a few bites here and there, but nothing good. I ended up catching a small fall fish, which, if you know about trout fishing, you don't want to see a fall fish.

Um, anyway, so I was like, oh, cool, cool. At least I didn't get skunked. But then I found the spot, and I just - I just kept getting them.

I was using one of those, uh, I think they're called Joe's Flies. It's like a fly attached to a spinner.

And, uh, they were just going crazy for it. I caught a pretty big rainbow trout, too. In any case, let's do this, and we'll be done.

If you remember, this is the debate between Scott Klusendorf and Darth Swallow.

And, um, we've done a lot of content about the - the Roe versus Wade thing, and just the - the lies that Darth Swallow tells, and the way that she was very subversive in this conversation.

Uh, we won't go back into all that, probably, but let's just continue. Here's Gospel Coalition on the pro -life issue.

Well, there - I want to move more to the political side of this, um, with - and I'm going to ask a question, and I'm going to direct it to both of you, because there is a political side, which is interesting.

You know, you hear - you hear people saying often now to a pastor, just preach the gospel, don't get political.

Well, the Christian issues are inherently political, and - and maybe none as much as - as this one right now.

So, what would you say to the Christian who has been conflicted, and this is going more to the grassroots issue, because they have two candidates.

They can vote for Donald Trump, who is against, you know, who's against abortion, and - but, to use your terms, his

Christian ethic is lacking. Or, you can go to Biden, who supports government -funded abortions, but some people feel like he would provide the social safety net for women not to get into that position in the first place.

So, there - what would you say to the Christian who is just really confused, tense, and needs some guidance on this issue as it pertains to political side of this argument?

Well, Joe Biden's not an option at all. Not even close. You can't be pro -life -

I'm sorry, forget pro -life. You can't be a Christian and vote for the Democratic Party in 2022. I mean, it's just - it's off the table.

It's not an option for you. The Democratic Party is so wicked, so vile, so evil from top to bottom.

Every single one of their policy positions is upside down from the way it should be.

They are against the Lord. They are against his anointed at every turn. They have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

So, the very first thing that you talk about with your friends is the fact that it is a sin to vote for a

Democrat in 2022. Maybe back in the day it used to not be. Now it is. It's equivalent to voting for the

Nazi Party back in Germany in the 30s. It's the same level of evil. In fact, I would argue that the

Democratic Party today is actually worse. You have a better chance being a Christian and voting for the

Nazi Party than you do for the Democratic Party in 2022. I've done lots of content on this.

If you want to hear that argument in a little bit more detail, I'm not going to go into it right now.

I just put a playlist responding to the Defend and Confirm podcast about voting Democrat, where I completely and lovingly eviscerate

Big Eva Light's position. Defend and Confirm podcast with Sean DeMar and Russell Berger.

They're Big Eva Light, so they're a little bit better than Big Eva in general. But along the same lines, they have the same positions, essentially.

And I eviscerate what they say about voting for Democrats. It's just it's a non -starter for a

Christian. Now, as far as Donald Trump and the Republican Party, you don't have to vote for Republicans. You can if you want to.

Now, at the time when this debate happened, they didn't know that Roe versus Wade was going to be overturned.

That was still a bit of a wild card. So in hindsight, of course, you would have wanted to vote for Donald Trump.

But you don't have to. I mean, a Christian doesn't even have to vote. It's not immoral to not vote. So if you're talking to someone about who should

I go for, Trump or Biden? And those are the only two options. Biden is a non -starter.

So you basically your decision is either Trump or not voting or that kind of thing. It's just that simple. It's just that simple.

There is no redeeming quality of the Democratic Party. Even the social safety net stuff that he mentioned that supposedly is going to make people not want to kill their babies.

Womb to tomb. Even that is evil. Even that is upside down. Even that is against God's law.

So there's no there's nowhere to hide. If you're voting for a Democrat, you are voting for the party of evil.

You are voting for the Antichrist. It's just that simple. And we need to make no bones about it. Watch my content on it.

I'll put it at the end of this video, that new playlist. It's as simple as that. So let's hear the nuanced weirdo kind of way to parse through this.

I think we need to back up and say, what is the Christian obligation politically? And I want to point out two.

Number one, we need to apply our Christian worldview holistically. That means that our

Christian theology applies to politics and the bifurcation that takes place between people who say,

I'm going to be gospel -centered, but I'm not going to be political. That's bifurcating.

That's splitting the Christian worldview in a way that it should not be split. Absolutely. Our behavior has to be driven by the

Scripture at every turn, whether we're at work, whether we're at school, whether we're at home, whether we're in the political, you know, theater, whatever you want to call it.

It's just that simple. You're a Christian everywhere. You're a Christian everywhere. I remember once I was talking to Ruslan and he said that, oh, you know, if you get someone to not vote

Democrat, that's a win for you, huh, dog? And he was expecting me to be like, oh, no, no, that's not what

I meant. No, no, I do mean that. You need to be a Christian in your vote so you can't vote Democrat. I want to disciple the nations in every area, everything that Christ commanded in every area of life.

They have to do it Christianly. That's what I want to do. I want to baptize people in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, so conversion, and then teach them to observe everything

Christ commands. And one of the things Christ demands is that you do not go with the many to do evil.

And if you vote for the Democratic Party, that is what you are doing. You're not to do that as a

Christian. Good job, Scott. Let's continue. Worldview applies to everything, everything.

Secondly, our responsibility as pro -life Christians is to vote to limit the evil and promote the good insofar as possible, given current political realities.

Now, some Christians erroneously think that if you don't have perfection in a law, you can't support it, that that would be compromise.

Look, politics is always the art of the possible, and there is never going to be a perfect political candidate, and there's never going to be a perfect pro -life law.

But you are held responsible to limit the evil and promote the good insofar as you can.

And it was interesting, historically, Frederick Douglass, the great abolitionist, was pressing

Lincoln to be more forthright on his anti -slavery views, and was pressing

President Lincoln saying, you're not really coming right out and giving us everything that's needed here.

And he was basically accusing Lincoln of compromising by endorsing an incremental approach to the end of slavery.

And yet Douglass himself, at Lincoln's funeral, came around to admit that the president was wise politically and knew what he was doing, that it was a matter of the art of the possible.

And had it not been for Lincoln's political prudence, there would have been no end to slavery.

So Christians will always feel that tension of, hey, that candidate, she's got some things

I don't like, and that's not good. There will be other times where we go, okay, this guy lines up more with a biblical worldview, so we'll go that way, but we're never going to get a perfect candidate, and that's not a good excuse to stay out of the political realm.

Okay. Okay. So the first part of that was good. The second part of it kind of went off the rails, and I think he's taking some shots at abolitionists and stuff like that.

And on the one hand, I do understand part of what he's saying. I don't think that it's necessarily—listen,

I would consider myself an abolitionist. However, I'm not as hardcore as the one who says, well, if it's not, you know, the abolition bill, then

I can't support it at all. I'm okay with some of the incremental stuff. However, here's the problem with incrementalism.

So often, the way Scott Klusendorf said, well, it's the art of the possible. It's like that—abolition's impossible.

And so I support, you know, incremental heartbeat bills and stuff like that, and that would be fine so long as the goal is justice, but so often it's an excuse.

The goal is not justice. They're actually not for abolition. In fact, they often fight against abolition.

And so the art of the possible turns into, let's just do nibbling around the edges and never go for the gold, never aim for the right thing.

We need to abolish abortion, and it needs to be punishable as murder and murder for hire. That's what it should be, and it should be a death penalty offense.

That's justice. That's what God requires of the civil magistrate. We have to understand that, and we have to be laser -focused on that.

So if you're going to be an incrementalist, don't fool yourself, because if you're an incrementalist, but you're really not after justice, be honest with yourself and just admit that.

You think God got that one wrong in the scripture. God got that one wrong. It's actually not really murder if it's a woman.

It's not really murder if it's a fetus. And if it was murder, we don't really want to punish it as murder the way the scripture says we should do that.

That was for the barbarous, I guess, nation of Israel, not for today. You see, that's the problem with the incrementalist.

It's like, he makes it seem like, oh, we'll get there. We'll get there. But every time we get there and we have the votes, the

ERLC swoops in, and all of a sudden, abortion is still legal in Louisiana because of the work of the

ERLC. That's a fact. Because of the work of the pro -life party, abortion is still legal in Louisiana.

It would have been illegal after the Roe versus Wade reversal, but it's legal because of Leatherwood and Russell Moore and people like Scott Glusendorf.

And so don't get it twisted. Some incrementalism, in my opinion, is okay, because they have the right goal in mind and they're going for it, right?

And they're trying to do the art of the possible. That's what Scott Glusendorf just sold you. But the reality of the pro -life movement so often is the art of the possible, but not really going for justice.

So don't be tricked by that nonsense. Yes, there won't be a perfect candidate, most likely. Fine. Fine. The target is justice as defined by the word of God, as defined by the

Jesus that every Christian claims to love. You love what he's done for you, but you don't like what he says to you.

You don't like what he demands of you. You don't like the commands of Christ. You betray it every day by what you promote.

And so that's my thing there. I'm not going to go too big into the abolition kind of thing because that's a debate for something completely separate.

It's not my area of expertise. I would support every abolition bill and that's just the bottom line.

I'll just leave it at that. I'll just leave it at that. Let's see what Karen has to say. What do you say?

I agree so much with Scott's, don't ask me to repeat it, but his definition of what politics is and that tension that we as Christians will always live in.

And I do think, especially as Christians who live in America, in God's sovereignty, that is an incredible talent that we have to steward our right to vote.

And so I do believe it is part of our responsibility as those whom

God has elected to have in this country who have this right to participate in the political process.

We have to participate in some way. I'll confess that I used to put so much faith in politics.

I was driving up this morning from my home three hours south of this city and recalling how in my 20s,

I was just enamored with Washington, D .C. and the political life here.

I even slept out on the sidewalk overnight, not far from here on the steps of the

Supreme Court one night because I wanted to get in to hear the oral. This is ironic because when

I was in my 20s, I actually lived in the D .C. area and I used to call Washington, D .C.

the Death Star. It's so interesting because this entire time I've been making fun of Karen Swallow Pryor saying that she's

Darth Swallow and she was enamored by what I used to call the Death Star and now she's

Darth Swallow. Worlds are colliding. This is before I was a

Christian. I wasn't even a Christian at the time. I remember always being creeped out in D .C. and I felt like it was the

Death Star. Arguments in a pro -life case that I was involved in that had gone before the

Supreme Court and got in there for a few minutes and those were my younger days. I don't sleep on sidewalks anymore.

But for many reasons since then, I am far less enamored of politics, not just as a person, but as a

Christian. And so I think, of course, as I said, we have sort of a

God -given responsibility to steward the right that we have to be part of a political process as Americans.

But I do think that we have compromised too much and put too much faith in politics and it has become an idol and we are reaping the consequences for that.

Just practically speaking, I have things in candidates that just eliminate them.

If someone is in favor of legal abortion, then that's someone who won't get my vote. They are eliminated.

If someone is a sexual abuser, that is a person that is eliminated. I will not vote for them.

Now this leaves often few choices, but it's a false binary and it's this false binary that has gotten us where we are that says we have to choose between this candidate or that.

There are third party candidates. There are write -in votes. Every state is different. But we have shackled ourselves as Christians in America by buying into a system that has more possibilities than we've been willing to see.

We've been used. We've allowed ourselves to be used. And so now, again, we are reaping the consequences from that.

And we have to have more faith in the possibilities. We have to have more faith in God being faithful to us because we are faithful by refusing to compromise by voting for those who would support killing children or abusing women or many other very long list of things.

That's what it means to be whole life. Yeah, there's a lot of politicians out there that are pro -abusing women.

Yeah, there's just tons of them. She's so right about that. I know she's talking about Trump. Allegedly, he was a serial philanderer and stuff like that.

OK, fine, whatever. I actually don't really have a whole lot of problem with what she said.

I think that often we get stuck in this false binary that's a false choice. I agree with that.

But I just want to point out, again, that Karen is avoiding the issues. He asked her what she would say to someone who is wanting to choose between the two.

And she's like, well, it's a false binary, blah, blah, blah. It's like, she's not revealing her whole cards here.

This is about womb to tomb or womb. And she's just really avoiding the entire thing.

And again, we know, now that we're in the future, that she's revealed her hand. What she means is taxing the tails off of rich people and redistributing the money.

That's what she means by womb to tomb. So she means socialism. And she's refused to even hint at that in this debate because she's a liar, and she's a deceiver, and she's subversive.

And that is what her goal is in this debate. She's got three minutes to tip her hand that she means socialism.

She means taxing the tails off of rich people to redistribute it to mothers and stuff like that.

She's refused to say it. Unreal. I mean, yeah.

Well, we have just a moment left. And I want to, because y 'all are, we are clearly on the same team when it comes down to it.

You've reiterated that more than any other debater. We're on the same team.

We agree. Womb and womb to tomb. Whatever you want. Womb and womb to tomb.

We have the same opinion. What's the point of these debates? You're on the same team. What are you talking about?

No, no, this is a debate. And the reason you're on the same team is because she hasn't actually taken any position.

She's taken no position. Far. And I appreciate that about y 'all.

I appreciate that. I appreciate you not saying anything, not revealing anything about your true intentions. I really appreciate that.

Only Big Eva, man. Only Big Eva. Far. What is the most compelling thing that your opponent has said tonight to you?

I think Karen makes just an excellent point that rhetorically we need to be willing to do the linking and that was one of my opening statements and she affirmed that but but took it a little further and I I'm in agreement.

I think there is room for that. Look, we can make it. No, I don't even know. That link to historical examples of human atrocities that then link those atrocities to what's happening to the unborn in a very compelling way.

I mean, think of the story, for example of Atabanga, the African man who was put in a cage with a monkey at the

Bronx Zoological Garden by followers of Charles Darwin and he was encouraged to play with a monkey in there.

This is what happens when you treat human dignity as merely attributed rather than intrinsic and pro -lifers can use historical examples like these and they ought to we ought to be quoting

Martin Luther King's letter from the Birmingham Jail and talking about creative extremism where we actually work to change this culture and part of that creative extremism that King talked about was linking to historical matters that are parallel to the current issue at hand.

So I appreciate that. I think that's good and and I'm going to walk away from this debate going, you know,

I made that point but she actually pressed me to even take it further and rhetorically, I'm all on board.

Oh, that was great. Yeah, because she's defending the womb -to -tomb stuff and so rhetorically we can reconnect this to other atrocities.

Is that womb -to -tomb? That's what womb -to -tomb means? That we can, okay, when we're talking about abortion, we can say, oh, remember it was like slavery like that used to be legal but and it wasn't right and it's just like abortion.

That's what we mean by womb -to -tomb. Is that what you're expecting me to believe, Gospel Coalition? That that's what we're talking about?

It's like when the African was in the zoo with the monkeys and that was bad but people always believe that and now abortion is bad but people believe in that.

It's just that's what womb -to -tomb means. You guys got to be kidding me,

Gospel Coalition. If you still listen to Gospel Coalition because I know there's a good chance that some in this audience still find

Gospel Coalition helpful and beneficial and a net positive. You think that the world's a better place because of Gospel Coalition.

Gospel Coalition is, they're so subversive and they have no respect for you because they looked at you in the eye in this video and said, you are an idiot.

We think you're an idiot and here's what we're going to serve you, you idiot. We're going to lie to you and say that womb -to -tomb means you can compare abortion to like slavery.

That's womb -to -tomb and Karen's like, yeah, yeah. Well, hold on. Meanwhile, we know what it is.

I mean in the beginning of this debate, I said, I know what it really what she really means but she hasn't said it and then you know, just the other day.

She says yes, it means to tax the tail off of rich people and redistribute the money, socialism.

That's what I support. It's womb -to -tomb. That's what we need. In fact, in that she said we specifically cannot rely on private charity, which is

God's provision. So we can't rely on God. God's not enough. He's not going to do it. We have to start taking money from rich people and which by the way, that means that means taking money from everybody and redistributing it.

By the way, there's not enough rich people and they don't have enough money to actually do this. So, you know how this really gets paid.

Here's how it really gets paid. This will bake your noodle. Probably not in this audience.

Most of you guys know this. Here's what would really happen. They pretend to tax the rich then the rich would hide their money and they wouldn't actually pay anything and then they tax the middle class.

So it would be stealing from the middle class to give to the poor, but actually it's worse than that because there's not enough money there either and they don't like to tax the middle class any more than they already tax us.

I mean we tax that they tax the daylights out of us, but they don't like to do it because then they lose votes and stuff like that.

So here's how it really happens. They sell bonds to the Federal Reserve who just poof creates money out of thin air raising everyone's prices crazily.

We're in we're in mega inflation right now raising the cost of living for poor people rich people middle -class people everything the gas bill that you just paid the grocery bill that you just paid all of that is due to money printing that the federal government is their fiscal policy necessitates, right?

The monetary policy is forced their hand is forced by the fiscal policy. And so what ends up happening is they to redistribute the money from the rich people.

They screw you over with inflation and you end up paying it back you end up paying it back and then some until the whole house of cards collapses and everybody suffers.

And do you know who suffers the most the poor suffers the most because when I go to the grocery store, I don't like that.

I'm spending a lot more than I used to but I could still go. You know who has a lot of trouble going.

It's poor people that they have to now decide. I don't know. Maybe I have to skip a meal. See I don't have to skip a meal.

Although I do have to spend a lot more money and I don't like that but poor people have to start foregoing things and poor people are the ones the ones of the margins of the ones that it puts at risk this whole bankruptcy of gospel of gospel coalition not not being willing to admit that God has said a lot more about politics than they let on is going to end up hurting the very people that they pretend to love the very people that they want everyone to think that they love because they're not thinking because they're not actually loving their neighbor as themselves.

They're just doing what other people think is love because they're not willing to be the stick in the mud the bad guy.

They're not willing to go against the the pagan worldview. They're not willing to do that because they want to appear loving.

That's what their ultimate goal is. They want to appear loving because of that. They're going to end up hurting the people that they pretend to love if you want to love your neighbor as yourself.

You want to love poor people. You have to love them according to God's law.

That's the only way to be safe because the heart is desperately wicked and devises all kinds of evil schemes that end up screwing everything up for everybody.

Let's finish this no more interruptions. Karen. That's so moving because Audubon got lived in the city near me and is buried a few miles.

It's barrels burial site was just recently marked and I also have voted in the courthouse that and live just a mile from it where the infamous case

Buck versus Bell was originated that for sterilization on so many women and men and is the one that Hitler modeled his own eugenics program on and this is what you talk about all these issues and I just mentioned more issues just lying.

Actually deepens my commitment to what you said about organizations and ministries being mission minded and having a specific goal and sticking to that.

That's really important. And what's missing is that we are all called to do something right?

And so we before God should be sure that we're responding to his call. I did not choose to become pro -life or anti -abortion if I were picking issues.

I know my personality and I would pick some other issues, but I just believe that God just put that fire in me and he called me to this issue and probably like I think he calls a lot of us.

He calls us all to side B, homosexuality, something like that. Maybe what the church really needs to do is to support one another in fulfilling those

God -given calling so that we can work beside one another. We can't all do everything but we can certainly all help one another fulfill the purpose that God has called us to.

Well, I'm thankful for you both. There's a lot of talking going on out there, a lot of talking on TV, talking on social media.

We're done with this. We're not going to listen to the end of that. Unreal, man. It's so contrived.

It's so fake. Gospel Coalition, this is garbage. This is garbage.

You're feeding us garbage. There's no real debate of the substantive issues. There's no honesty.

Karen is being so honest. Darth Pryor over here, dishonest. Scott Klusendorf is being honest, but it's just he had nothing to work with.

It's like, yeah, I agree. Rhetorically, we could use the past, but what he should have said,

Scott, Scott, you did a good job here and I support you and God bless you,

Scott, but you gotta be like, Karen, come on, Karen. That's not what womb to tomb means that we can connect this issue to slavery or whatever in the past.

You're lying. That's not what it is. You mean socialism. You promote socialism and that's what the womb to tomb part means.

It's like, she just lied this whole time. It's just unbelievable, man. It's so contrived.

It's so, it's so, man, Gospel Coalition is so worthless. I don't even know what to say.

It's just like, it's just so worthless. Do I dare watch another one of these?

I don't know. I think I'll do the racial justice one because that's my schtick, but I'm not, I don't want to,

I don't want to, but you know what? I'll do it for you guys. I will do it for you.

So anyway, I hope you found this video helpful at the end at the somewhere here or here.

I'm going to have the link to the new playlist that I did about why Christians that vote

Democrat should be put through the steps of church discipline leading to excommunication if they do not repent.

It's an airtight case, guys. There's just, there's no way around this. There's no way around this and I think you'll really get a lot of value out of it.

My favorite one is the third video, but all three of them are pretty good. Again. I hope you found this video helpful.