June 30, 2015 ISI Radio Show with Dr. Michael Brown on “Outlasting the Gay Revolution” & Pastor Jim Harrison on “The SCOTUS decision on ‘Same-Sex Marriage'”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris.

Arntzen. Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 30th day of June 2015 and I'm very excited and delighted that today we have as a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Dr. Michael Brown of askdrbrown .org and the Line of Fire radio program, that's lineoffireradio .com and if you could email us questions immediately to chrisarntzen at gmail .com, chrisarntzen at gmail .com because we're gonna be on the air with Dr. Brown momentarily and I believe this may be Dr. Brown right now.

Dr. Brown, are you with us today? Hello Dr. Brown, are you with us today? For some reason I'm not hearing Dr. Brown but we're gonna go to a commercial and we'll find out what the technical problem is.

In a minute, so don't go away, we'll be right back. I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in-depth study. Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation.

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And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you. Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times. 631 -929 -3512. Or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us. Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzin and if you just heard me open up the program a couple of minutes ago, we have for the very first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron, Dr. Michael Brown of the Line of Fire radio program.

And you can find out where he broadcasts that program on stations all over the United States at lineoffire .com. And he also has MP3s archived of past broadcasts. In addition he can answer your questions at askdrbrown .org.

And he is a prolific writer and I can recommend him highly. He comes highly recommended by a very mutual friend that is no stranger to the Iron Sharpens Iron audience, Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

And you know that if Dr. White can heartily recommend an apologist who's both Arminian and charismatic, you know that Dr. Brown must be saying something worthy of listening to and taking heed to. And it's my honor and privilege truly to have you for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron, Dr. Michael Brown.

Hey Chris, it's my pleasure brother. And we already have a listener who has emailed a more of a comment, but I am going to turn it into a question. We have a listener in Jacksonville, Florida, Richie.

And Richie has nothing but the highest regards for you. And in fact I'm going to go back to, here it is, here's Richie's question. Richie's question is, let's see, please let Michael Brown know how much I appreciate his ministry and his response to Tony Campolo.

The way Michael Brown wrote the open letter to Tony Campolo was truly spirit-led and filled with true mature love for the brethren and the lost. Too many of us miss the mark, so many of us miss the mark in our approach.

A gentle but truthful answer many times turns away wrath and opens up a heart to God's truth and will. May you continue to bless, may God continue to bless you Chris and Mike and all others who labor in the gospel.

Well that was a very nice commendation for you Mike, and that's one of the reasons I wanted to open the program up right away with that email, and I will turn it into a question in a minute. But one of the things that seems to be the hallmark of your ministry is even if you vociferously and even sternly at times rebuke someone for a heretical view or a ungodly behavior, you always have the maturity and the composure to do so with love.

And I wanted you to comment about that. I mean obviously you may be too humble to accept that kind of a compliment, but isn't that something that we need to do whenever we address.

Issues including the one we're talking about today? And one of the questions.

That I was going to ask you in regard to Tony Campolo. Specifically, before I go on to your new book that's coming out, can we as Christians treat people like Tony Campolo, who have clearly antithetical views, 180 degrees opposite to the Holy Scriptures.

When it comes to something like homosexuality, can we view them and treat them as brothers in Christ? Should we consider them as to be.

Born-again believers with the Spirit of God living within them? I have written a.

Book that many of our listeners are already very familiar with, The Queering of America, and you have a new book coming out this fall, Outlasting the Gay Revolution, where homosexual activism is really going and how to turn the tide.

Sounds like you may be becoming a post-millennialist there, you think that we can outlast it, but how do these two books differ in their content and approach? The Queering of America and your new book that's soon to be released.

By the way, I just wanted to quickly say that the Brethren at Christian Witness.

To Israel send their regards, and a dear friend who is going to be on this program in August, who is a thoroughgoing five-point Calvinist, thinks there are a few better than you in regard to evangelizing the Jewish people about the Messianic fulfillment of prophecy from the Old Testament into the New.

So I just wanted to send those regards to you. And we do have a listener in Fort Myers, Florida, Mike, who says, Greetings Dr. Brown,. I appreciate all your efforts in proclaiming the truth of our Lord and of your materials.

My question is, in volume 5, pages 231 to 332 of your masterful Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, you mention the Reform Jews and their very low view of Scripture, along with their lax stand on homosexuality.

Do you personally deal or speak with Reform Jews differently in the matter of Scripture and homosexuality than you would a non-Jew? If so, would you mind providing examples of conversational strategy?

And of course we have to differentiate between a Reform Jew, which is known for liberalism, and a Reformed Christian, with an ED at the end, which is known for usually conservativism and a belief in biblical inerrancy and so.

On. But if you could comment on the listener's question there. We have a.

Listener in Ridgewood, Queens, New York, Johnny, who wants to know if you believe that Christians should begin participating in civil disobedience regarding this Supreme Court decision on last Friday, a day that will live in infamy, and how this civil disobedience, in your opinion, would.

Manifest itself. Yeah, I look at this through that. I'm a Christian or a wedding, but should a fundamental marriage or not. Now, you know as well as I do that there are fellow believers who.

Like to become the language police and sometimes even sound like liberals in the way that they go perhaps overboard in controlling what we say and how we say it in regard to homosexuality specifically.

And for instance, I just brought up in the outset of the program that you are known for being a person who is diligently proclaiming a biblical truth on any issue that confronts you unwaveringly without compromise according to your position or your convictions.

But you also combine that with the love of Christ and the compassion for lost souls. But can you be, is there such a thing as being too nice about this issue? And is it always the loving thing to do to be too nice?

Yeah. We do have an anonymous listener in Carlisle, Pennsylvania who says, having said what you said, why did you title your book The Queering of America? Yeah, my.

Book is Queer Thing Happened. You're back on the air by the way. And I want to apologize for.

Misspeaking when I used the title. It's A Queer Thing. Happened to America is the.

Name of the book. Yeah, five days a week, all there for you. You can be on social media through the.

Website AskDrBrown .org. Great, and you can keep your eye open for when the book is actually published. And we can also plug Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service who will be selling the book. They are one of our sponsors, CVBBS .com.

CVBBS .com. Thank you so much Dr. Brown for being on. We look forward to your return to Iron Sharpens Iron. Yes sir, God bless you so much. You too. And we're going to be going to a break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for our next guest, Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church.

He is going to be also responding to the Supreme Court decision, so don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages.

The Supreme Court Decision and the Call to Civil Disobedience

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Pastor Jim Harrison on Marriage, Religious Liberty, and the Moral Response

Welcome back, this is Chris Arns and if you've just tuned us in for the first half of our broadcast, we had Dr. Michael Brown of AskDrBrown .org and he also hosts the Line of Fire radio program which can be found at lineoffireradio .com and you can find a local station that airs that broadcast.

The second half of the program we now have returning to Iron Sharpens Iron. He has been a guest before when we previously ran before our hiatus Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mahopac Falls, New York.

But this is the first time that we are privileged to have him on Iron Sharpens Iron since our relaunch in June and it is my honor and privilege to welcome you for the first time to the all-new Iron Sharpens Iron, Pastor Jim Harrison.

I agree brother and well actually I guess God's timing is just right isn't it? And before we go into the theme at hand, welcome to the oligarchy. It was a nice little Republic while it lasted. Please tell our listeners something about yourself and.

About Red Mills Baptist Church and tell us something about the Spurgeon.

Fellowship that you're involved in as well. That's involved with the.

Conservative Baptist Association. Let's go to your article now that you.

Posted on your website. Welcome to the new oligarchy. Please define that for our.

Listeners. We do have a listener in Yuma, Arizona. We have Clarence. He asks how.

Much protection based on the First Amendment. Will pastors have to refuse to marriage same-sex couples? And he has two other follow-up questions that I will.

Ask you after you comment on that. Just yet. I'll just ask two more of these and.

Perhaps save some of Clarence's questions for when we have a legal expert or attorney or judge or something on the program. But Clarence also asked what about the rights and protection of private company companies based on their own religious position?

And isn't this decision a major attack on states rights with long-standing consequences particularly considering.

Those states that had elected by each state a definition of marriage? And I.

Want to repeat our email address if you have any questions for our guest, Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mahopac Falls, New York. It's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And please include your first name, city, and state, and country if you are outside of the USA. How do you cope? Because it's not an easy thing for me. It's not easy for most Christians that I know. How do you cope with the anger and the burning bitterness that we sometimes feel rising up with us, and dare I say at times hatred, when we see our nation collapsing to people who are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of the population, meaning the homosexual left, and we witnessed how the governments and the corporations and everybody in authority around us seems to be caving in to their whims.

And I have said this before. I actually said this many years ago back in the 90s, I believe it was, when my friend Dr. Efflegard Smith wrote a book called Sodom's Second Coming. I told him that I believe that there are real people who are homophobes and they're called politicians.

They're the ones that are truly afraid of this tiny minority of people because they seem to bow and scrape to their every whim. And Dr. Smith had told me that he wished, I told him before the book was in print because he would have put it in print, but how do you deal with this?

And how do you recommend our Christian listeners cage in the anger that we have so that we're more.

Effective witnesses for Jesus Christ in this day and age that we live in? Now.

That has been and still is very much a problem in the church. The fact that many of us have made an idol of America. Now obviously we all should be patriots. We should be good stewards of this country.

We should love our country and be grateful to God for the freedoms that we have. We should be active participants in the well-being of this nation in any sphere that we have the ability to do so. But can we not make the Star-Spangled Banner an idol and dismiss the wickedness that is flowing from it more and more as the.

Days pass us by? Once again our email address is.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. If you have a question for our guest pastor Jim Harrison on the SCOTUS decision on same-sex marriage and that it is now law of the land, that it is legal, and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. We have another anonymous listener who asks the question, I know that you are unwilling to marry homosexual couples because of your belief that the Bible would clearly prohibit such a thing, but how would you treat a same-sex couple that were to begin attending your services in a quiet and respectful manner?

And of course gluttony is completely legal, so they wouldn't ask. But yes and I.

Am really leery about this constant drumbeat about all sin being sin. Sin is sin, sin is sin. Now you and I as Bible-believing Christians who believe in the gospel of grace, we both fully affirm the fact that any sin, no matter how trivial we may think it is, will send an individual to hell if he is not covered by the blood of Christ.

But that doesn't mean therefore that all sin is the same, correct? I mean there are sins that pastors could commit that would not disqualify them from their office. In fact, since you are a sinner and every pastor I know is a sinner, it would be impossible to carry on the biblically ordained office of the pastor if only sinless people were eligible.

So how do we differentiate this way? Because it really becomes annoying after a while when we constantly hear this drumbeat, from Christians even, that sin is sin, who are you to judge, you know, why are you making that more serious than the other sin, etc.

Now I understand that pride is very often involved when we do that. When we hear that lunatic in Arizona, Steve Anderson, the way that he is obviously speaking as a Pharisee and elevating the sins of others far beyond his own, and the way that he speaks you would think that he doesn't even believe he has any.

But if you could comment on that, because there is a.

Difference between different sins, isn't there? We have another question from.

Johnny in Ridgewood, Queens, New York, who asks, what pastoral counsel would you offer to Christians to influence change by rendering to Caesar while submitting.

To Christ? A follow-up question to our anonymous listener earlier who asked.

About whether or not you would welcome same-sex couples visiting your church, whether you would welcome them into worship services. I'm assuming you would not welcome them into membership, number one.

No, absolutely not. Right, but my follow-up question is, how do you put guidelines for them, other than just literally giving them guidelines, on their behavior while amongst God's people, for instance, there are things that heterosexual couples, even the ones that aren't necessarily married, they may be engaged or so forth, that we fully expect, we think that are tame and innocent expressions of intimacy in public, if they're at the church barbecue, they might be strolling with their holding hands, they may ask, please honey, can you pass me the potato salad?

Things like that, that we just take for granted as trivial little things, but when it comes to same-sex partners, when we have children surrounding them, and to step it up a notch, my question, I have a very good friend who is a pastor in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who had a homosexual couple attending and one of the partners was in drag when they would show up.

They ceased attending but apparently there was nothing more nasty or stern or cruel or what have you ever said to them than the clear teachings of the Bible, but they weren't singled out in any way and spoken to in a unnecessarily harsh manner, and they ceased attending.

But how do you approach that, especially when you.

Have children in the midst of the flock? But for the sake of children in the.

Midst, would you even permit the continuing visits of a cross-dresser, for.

Instance? No, I think that would be... And Pastor Jim, if you could give our listeners your website for Red Mills Baptist Church. Yeah, redmillsbaptist .org.

We thank you so much for being on our program today, Pastor Jim Harrison. We look forward to you returning, and I want to thank everybody who listened. I also want to thank again Dr. Michael Brown of Line of Fire Radio for being our first guest today.

I want you to all always remember, no matter what you've done, no matter how you've sinned, I want you to all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far far greater Savior than you are a sinner.

God bless, and we'll see you tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron.